/3/ - 3DCG

[Anonymous No.928054]

...do you riggers seriously expect me to set up complicated stretchy ik / counteranimation-prevention shit when making a rig? I read notes from siggraph from the mid 2000s and they are going nuts, hundreds of pages of how to set up the arms, legs, spine, neck, etc to combat counter-animation with squash and stretch and then having to have correct rotation orders for euler mode to boot. Is this what it takes, riggers?

[Anonymous No.928064]

Anyone?

[Anonymous No.928075]

>>928054
why do you think we automate those processes
tl;dr, yes

[Anonymous No.928079]

>>928075
>why do you think we automate those processes
what do you mean by this? I am writing an autorigger, but now that i discover that mid 2000s era riggers were going nuts over counteranimating measures what I thought was done seems far from being done

[Anonymous No.928092]

>>928079
you are comparing Your work to a years worth of work from a team of riggers. stop being retarded anon. do your best at what You can do.

[Anonymous No.928093]

>>928092
my source wrote a 1500 page siggraph course note pdf document on how to rig production characters and literally at the end just says to automate what he just went over

[Anonymous No.928166]

>>928054
Yes. animators expect you to do 100% of the work for them. When they receive the rig they want there to be a custom control panel with a single button that just makes the animation for them automatically. If animators have to exert themselves in even the slightest way they'll fall into an inconsolable depression.

[Anonymous No.928211]

>>928054
No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die

[Anonymous No.928484]

>>928054
What are you reading exactly? Can you link? I want to learn all their wacky techniques.

[Anonymous No.928490]

>>928484
I'm reading a siggraph 2006 presentation and accompanying 1500 page autodesk masterclass course notes pdf that details the rigging pipeline of the original lord of the rings trilogy

[Anonymous No.928608]

>>928490
Can you run that by me again? But this time assume I'm a complete and utter noob who has no idea what any of those terms mean. Nor, how to navigate my way to finding those resources.

[Anonymous No.929560]

>>928608
you have the world at your fingertips, if you cant figure out what you want on your own. your a fucking mouth breathing idiot

[Anonymous No.929565]

>>929560
>you have the world at your fingertips,
you have what search engines and moderators are willing to keep up and show you, child

[Anonymous No.929569]

>>929565
are you using chinese internet? or just a dumb fuck?

[Anonymous No.929574]

>>929569
are you for real? You know that the internet has gotten worse and worse in regards to censorship around the globe, right? You must be young

[Anonymous No.931217]

Yes you need IK.


OP your prompt and responses are frustratingly vauge.

You're surprised at the depth of complexity of the average rig which would be a pretty reasonable stance for a newbie.

But you're writing an auto rigger? Which would imply to me you're somewhat experienced.

But you're reading a 16 year old SIGGRAPH paper to presumably educate yourself which again tells me you're a newbie.

Please give us more info here. What is your experience level? What stage is your auto rigger at? What are your goals for the auto rigger?

And for gods sake stop reading that paper, its not a relevant educational source for today's tech.

Happy to supply some resources if you need. Im also writing an auto rigger at the moment based on what I've used at previous studios.

[Anonymous No.931220]

>>931217
>And for gods sake stop reading that paper, its not a relevant educational source for today's tech.
it is still extremely relevant and I'm over 7500 lines into translating Jason's presentation into a python modular autorigger for maya 2022-23. I just made a FK spine with
>spline IK offset
>quash and stretch
>movable pivot.

I have an Arm rig with
>FK and IK controls with matching with one click
>no flip arm
>set driven key poses on the fingers
>an extensive palm rig
>multiple space switching

Shoulder rig with
>clavicle with radial blendshape + training

Leg with with
>double knee
>no flip pole vector IK leg
>FK leg
>IK FK
>reverse foot
>SDK toes if shoe is off

[Anonymous No.931225]

>>931220
and nice and clean PySide 2 UI that auto updates. Yum. Unfortunately no part of the autorigger can be distributed since it relies on many of the scripts from the dvd which are owned by Autodesk

[Anonymous No.931229]

Yeah, animators expect that stuff. Rigging takes a certain kind of autism and at the high end is just programming and math.

[Anonymous No.931237]

>>928054
Like this anon said >>931229
high level rigging is more programmatic (autistic) than artistic. I don't say that as an insult its just the reality.

[Anonymous No.931266]

>>931220
All the stuff you've listed sounds great mate.

The point I'm trying to get across about the paper being outdated is while the rig features are still useful the software has changed dramatically. The implementation of those features then needs to change dramatically. Pretty sure they didn't have parallel evaluation in maya 2006 for example.

OP I'm still not sure what the point of this thread is. Can you please restate clearly what it is that you would like to know?

[Anonymous No.931276]

>>931266
>The point I'm trying to get across about the paper being outdated is while the rig features are still useful the software has changed dramatically. The implementation of those features then needs to change dramatically. Pretty sure they didn't have parallel evaluation in maya 2006 for example

I was under the impression that a scripted python rig consisting of a bunch of different constraints, parenting structure, expressions, and SDK that you run in maya in 2022-23 gives you parallel evaluation automatically under the dg hood. Are you saying otherwise? In his examples he said his rig could be slow which is why he devotes time to rigid skinning cut up pieces of the body geo to individual joints and creating an "animator" rig which he mentions at the time is different from a "skinned" rig which uses skincluster or as he says a muscle system in place of skincluster. I am getting plenty of frames on 12900k with skincluster

The purpose of this thread was to see if other riggers thought ik squash and stretch counteranimation prevention systems are necessary

[Anonymous No.931280]

>>931276
>ik squash and stretch counteranimation prevention systems
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about mitigating hard ik pop?

[Anonymous No.931285]

>>928054
Yes, and that's why you riggers should learn to script at least on Python, since once you automate the process, you basically do the job once, then save it pretty much for live unless something specific comes in the process.

t. Animator that also had rigging courses

[Anonymous No.931311]

>>931280
No. It relates to being able to squash and stretch the spine to keep the position of either the shoulders or the hips while adjusting the other end(shoulders or hips) without having to counteranimate because traditionally moving one would change the position of the other if the spine wasnt able to stretch. For example you have a character bending over in a "wrestling" pose and you posed him with fk. You want to raise the hips and keep the position of the shoulders /head.

>If you don’t allow the back to stretch, each time the animator adjusts the hips, they’ll have to adjust the shoulders, and then they’ll have to adjust the hips, and then the shoulders, and then the hips.. you get the idea. Painful! Instead, let’s make it easy for them. If they’re going to grab the shoulders, let them move the shoulders exactly where they want them

Again, this is from the creator of the rigging pipeline of the original LOTR, a siggtsph presenter and autodesk masterclass instructor

[Anonymous No.931314]

>>931311
Have you tried rigify addon in blender? It already does all this

[Anonymous No.931315]

>>931311
Oh right. They call that feature ctrl pinning where I am now but they call it different things at different places. Sometimes they mix it in with the spaces but that's confusing imo. I mean yeah, sometimes they want that, but they also often ask for an option to turn it off (or "pin" the joint to the ctrl). The problem with it is it pulls the joints away from the ctrl which you don't want if you constrain the ctrl and have it behave sensibly. They also ask for stretchy limbs so you have to stretch the limb a certain amount before moving its parent joint. Its not stuff I'd add by default on a first pass but its pretty common.

[Anonymous No.931320]

>>931314
I hate animating in blende, im heavily invested in maya with subscription and its better perf and i know its api and i have a animbot sub and im learning a lot about rigging by following the notes

[Anonymous No.931326]

>>931315
>Its not stuff I'd add by default on a first pass but its pretty common.
Not sure what you mean by first pass as Jason is describing creating rigs for animators to use fully 8-12 hrs a day and not have to worry about counteranimating, local rotation axis and joint oriens being unintuitive and not making sense in the graph editor, and having to do a "second pass", whatever that is. He describes making a bipedal rig for animators, period. And ye,s, he goes over limb scaling in further chapters

[Anonymous No.931358]

>>931326
I mean if someone asked for a rig with only very general specs (which is usually the case with an initial brief) I wouldn't add those features. I'd wait for them to be requested specifically so I could understand the animator's problem.

[Anonymous No.931683]

>>929560
>you have the world at your fingertips, if you cant figure out what you want on your own. your a fucking mouth breathing idiot
Well how the hell did you find this stuff? You went to google and typed "advanced rigging please", and it popped up?

[Anonymous No.931694]

>>931683
Just search for 'siggraph autodesk masterclass rigging weta' then change the pdf numbers to get 8 instructor note pdfs.

I bought the hobbit trilogy remastered in 4k hdr and gollum even from back then looks really really good. Jason set up gollums rig and was one of the animators

[Anonymous No.931695]

>>931694
Excuse me i meant the lord of the rings trilogy

[Anonymous No.931720]

>>928054
>tfw never bother with ik
>tfw never place a single skeleton bone
>tfw entire character is animated just with cluster nodes
>tfw faster, easier, and has zero negative impact on animatability or visual appearance
feels good not to be a rigger

[Anonymous No.931725]

>>931720
Eh, if that works for you then all good I guess. Post some anim I'm keen to see cluster only animation.