/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>30176573

>>30002254

If you bought when /pmg/ was buying you got in at 0.090 CAD and saw a recent high of 0.22 (a 150% increase) within weeks, sounds pretty good to me.

Most PM stocks in general are in the gutter. GDX and GDXJ are the benchmark ETFs of gold producers and yet they are now barely above what they were when gold was $1400. Barrick has dumped even lower than Jan. 2020 and Kinross, a large respectable producer which pays a large dividend has a P. E. ratio of 8 (15 is normal, 30 is expensive, and Tesla is at 2000).

>>29683263

Silver miners are the most undervalued assets on the planet lad. See this image for the kind of gains a microcap like BHS can give you. >>29682694

>>27721437

Yes, not simply FR but every primary silver producer is vastly undervalued at current silver prices and should be at least double. Predatory shorting, lack of knowledge about the industry, spot price manipulation, and a wall of worry are the only things keeping miners down.

AG at $50 silver:

Future $silver price (end 2021): $50
AISC: $15
Net profit per $silver ounce: $35
Yearly production: 30 million $silver eq ounces
Future NET INCOME: about $1B
Estimated P/E ratio: 40
Future market cap: $40B
Future $AG stock price: $200 (MC / shrs)

Not simply silver stocks but gold stocks are vastly undervalued. Kinross Gold is typical of this, trading at PE ratio of 8 and has a dividend yield of 1.73%. The QQQ is trading at 30x forward earnings and pays no dividends.

>>26429458

I never understood why somebody would gamble on crypto when you have small caps to speculate on. If you believe that the financial system is about to fall apart then you know that metals are definitely going to soar. Which means that miners are definitely going to soar. So why bother betting on the idea that Bitcoin _might_ become money (as a matter of fact it never will) and go 100x, when you know that mining companies _will_ go 100x.

>>26429475

There's nothing the matter with it, it's simply more conservative than buying miners. Ultimately it's what any mining stock investor is going to do.

>>26429684

>When juniors exploded 10-50x in the last bull run, very few of those companies were profitable for any substantial amount of time.

Most juniors don't make profits, so profit doesn't come into the matter. They are mostly explorers and valued on the basis of their resources. Producers have often traded at 30x cash flow valuations, generally at about 10x, those are simply facts.

>very few of those companies were profitable for any substantial amount of time.

Somebody who gets into miners is buying the bottom now, not the top. It's equivalent to the early 1970s or 00s, not 1984 or 2011.

>Treating miners as leveraged metal is moronic.

Treating miners as leverage is the most rational thing in the world. If you know a company's production and mine-life then it is the easiest trade of your life to calculate what they will be making at such or such a silver price and buy them as leverage. Only thing that can set you back is a black swan or bad management, and even that won't stop if you if you have a diversified portfolio or buy an ETF.

>>26018903

>What are some good miners?

If you only have access to the NYSE: Alexco, Great Panther, AUMN

If you have access to small-caps: BLLG, DV, IRV

>>26018936

>Mining stocks ARE paper

No, mining stocks are an asset, like a house. What you say here is untrue. >>26012848 Mining stocks went up 100s or 1000s of times in the highly inflationary 70s and 80s. Once you have your physical bullion hedge, the first place where you want to be in a currency crisis is mining stocks. Mining companies will be the new central banks post-fiat. If PMs soar mining stocks will necessarily follow, because every dollar which is added to the price of PMs is pure profit for the miners.

>>26005081

10x is historically normal for a strong mining company, 30x is a number which you often see in miner bull markets (even for small producers, e. g. Starcore went 29x last time). So a lot of these microcap producers which are trading at 1x cash flow or projected cash flow (BHS, Vangold, Starcore) already need to go 30x relative to their current mcap; then take into account the leverage which rising silver prices afford and you will see why many miners will be going 100s or 1000s of x at $100+ silver.

>>24232225

>>23846356

The average small cap silver miner went up 150 times in the '60s bull market, when silver doubled. As the dollar is going to fare even worse this time than it did in the '70s and '80s, silver is probably going back to its inflation-adjusted ATH, which is $600. Now imagine what the small caps will do. You haven't missed the opportunity of the century by missing BTC, it's still available to grasp.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4376036-how-to-ride-this-precious-metals-bull-market-to-top

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4367147-silver-miners-shine

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4315726-top-10-gold-mining-stocks-for-2020

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4315151-10-best-silver-mining-stocks-for-2020

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4311495-10-gold-mining-development-projects

>>23834890

Bonds are in a historic bubble, they are going to plummet. Interest-rates can never go up again, only down, otherwise the whole system would immediately crash, as it did in late 2018. Yields, therefore, can only become increasing negative from here onward, thus making a bond-market crash inevitable. Also, once the dollar gets dumped, bonds will literally become worthless. "Cashing out" should mean converting your money into gold bullion.

>>23834903

In 20 years, most of the companies in the Dow Jones and the Nasdaq will be bankrupt. They only survive because of Fed bailouts and Q. E. When the dollar gets dumped, there will be nothing left to sustain them.

>>23834927

50% in bullion, 50% in gold miners is a completely sensible thing to do. If you buy miner ETFs you are spread across dozens of jurisdictions and hundreds of companies, so the only risk you take on is that there won't be a PM bull market and gold will go down. (But that isn't going to happen.)

Sprott's PHYS and PSLV are considered to be the safest ETFs for buying bullion, but it's better actually to hold it in your hand, or at least use an allocating/segregating service like GoldMoney, BullionVault, or Kinesis. Never buy GLD or SLV, that means that you own a claim on a bank, not on real bullion, and the banks are going to collapse.

>>23817911

1984 on this chart at a bare minimum.

>>23271047

The prices of the miners are already depressed to a ridiculous degree. It is hard to predict where they will go in the short term, because they should already be far higher. Some people value a stock by NAV, others on an EV/Reserve oz basis. I simply bring up the statistic here that "when silver doubled in the '62 to '68 silver bull market, the average silver penny stock went up 160x."

https://www.historylink.org/File/8883

"Benjamin A. Harrison and Harry F. Magnuson. These two were able to take advantage of the silver boom of the 1960s, during which the average penny stock appreciated 160 times. Participation in the Spokane Stock Exchange was vast, with more than 100,000 investors from all 50 states and many foreign countries. Barron's declared “Speculators in silver stocks have struck it rich in Spokane,” and the Seattle Post Intelligencer called Spokane “the speculative darling of the industry” (Fahey, 121)."

https://ceo.ca/brc?742be2c790af

@tin "between 1962 and 1968 the average penny silver stock moved up 150x in price. That isn't 150% that is 150X !. I believe we are in a much much bigger bull market now . A currency reset debt default event. . EPS, P.E ratios, NAV go out the window in these scenarios . A market like the 1960's would imply the average .30 cent silver stock would trade upwards of $45 . I think we are a long way from calling fair value in this ,the biggest bull market in history."

If you believe that silver is going to $50, $100, $200, $500, $600, then all these silver stocks are going to such a ridiculously high level that we can hardly predict or calculate it. Simply say that anybody who invests thousands is going to get hundreds of thousands, and anybody who invests tens of thousands is going to get millions. Look at my chart of the XAU to S&P 500 ratio, consider that we are going back to 1984 levels, and see at what a low price the miners still remain. That's the really important thing to keep in mind.

>>23174337

When considering how high the GDX will go, look at this chart rather than 10-year or 20-year nominal one. We're going back to 1984 in the gold miners, not 2011. Also, you have to bear in mind that the GDX pays dividends. Newmont, for example, pays $1 per share, and that will only get better as the price of gold goes up. I only buy silver juniors, not the GDX, because I want far greater leverage to PMs than the GDX affords; but even people who buy the GDX are going to become among the wealthiest people in the world.

>>22805036

And, of course, everybody should remind themselves of this chart. Miners have almost never been so undervalued in human history. And this time, we'll go, not merely to 1984 levels but beyond them. What your entry-point now is pretty much meaningless in the long-term.

>>22753004

No; miners have never been cheaper in human history. Nothing even slightly overpriced about them. This kind of correction has happened in all previous bull markets. Go look back at the GDX from '08 to '11. First you had the equivalent of our March crash, then it soared, then continued to rise; but, on the way to the top, you had several corrections between 10-20% from the local peak. GDX is presently down 14% from the local peak. All other miners are a reflection of this.

>>22751119

>>I lost so much fucking money the last week or so. When can we expect a reversal?

Whenever any one of these things happens:

1) U. S. government begins massive stimulus, and the Fed turns the money-printer back on;

2) We get the banking crisis which Alasdair Macleod keeps talking about (and you really don't want to get caught holding cash when that happens);

3) We get an official COMEX default.

All three of these things are inevitable, and at least one of them is almost certainly going to happen before the end of the year.

>>22705670

Will repeat here what I just said in another thread.

Almost nothing has outperformed junior silver miners. To take a few examples at random, since March, Dolly Varden is up 5x, Vizsla and Callinex are up 6x, Discovery Metals, Defiance, Silver Viper are up 8x. These are normal silver small-caps which everybody owns, and which I was recommending to people here a few months ago. They are still ridiculously cheap. The average silver small cap goes up _160x_ in a PM bull market (see '62 to '68), and this one is only just beginning. Miners have never been more undervalued in relation to metals, silver has almost never been more undervalued in relation to gold, and gold in relation to everything else. It was better to get in in March, but anybody not buying these things even now is insane. When the debt-trap destroys the dollar, the 100 trillion bond market, along with the stock market, will be chasing a microscopic silver market (2.5 billion investable supply per annum) as one of the few safe-havens remaining.