/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11079540
building a website is a meme. that shit is outsourced. learn to build things that matter, integrations with sensors, payroll, tax forms. that shit is confidential and they cant outsource to india.

i heard they looking for programmers at mcdonalds anon

Fuck a job find work.
If you can make a website you can stay busy 40 hrs a week no problem.
Why would u want to make someone else money?

>>11079553
How?
>>11079554
How?

If you are a dev and you cannot find work, you are not looking. If I walked up to three people on the street, all three of them would tell me their company is actively trying to find dev talent.

>>11079570
how do you learn shit? idk, teach yourself? learn .net framework - C# especially. learn databasing - postgres/mssql. learn hacking - protection against sql injection attacks.

from there either
>hack a local company
>go to job fairs and show off your sex robot

>>11079557
Because creating a successful business that earns enough to make a living is a lot more difficult than getting a job.

Indeed.com faggot

>>11079587
I know django, spring, and node.

>>11079540

lol

you are not a programmer if you just can code websits, the fuck are you thinkin about

>>11079540

You haven't even tried sucking the hiring managers cock yet? Anon...

>>11079642
node.js is useful. highlight that. but you need other skills. any app/website/anything worthashit needs to talk to a database. sql administrators pays a fuckton. programmers that can design a relational database is aloso key.

basically, you only have half of the skills you need currently to make it. better than most, but you gottsa escape the pajeet-tier work.

>>11079540
React JS. Get good at front end frameworks and I’m sure you’ll find someone to give you $100,000.

>>11079540
Could be worse... This could have been your major in college

>>11079634
No its not. Literally put up your own website advertising services. Spend a little on Google a words / fb ads, put out a Craigslist post. Ull get calls from work within a few weeks tops

>>11079540
>only people who reach out to me are Indians with out of state senior positions
Take them. You might just have to move to find work.
>>11079570
Go through the phonebook and call any local business you can't find a website for. Offer to build them a site. If they say no, say you'll build it for free and if they don't see their volumes increase in a month it's no charge. Then you can sell them shit like SEO for a recurring fee.

>>11079634
Don't get too lost in the details before you even try. It isn't hard, I used to do this in hvac. Found all my customers online. If you're not working right now, what does it matter if you don't make as much as you'd like to? It's more than zero.

>>11079739
This. React is used a lot by start ups.

Do you know git?

You're obviously not a good programmer I constantly get head hunted for 100k+ jobs

>>11079540

You have this issue because you didn't listen to Nina

>>11079540
Link portfolio

>>11080272
>You're obviously not a good programmer I constantly get head hunted for 100k+ jobs
obviously, this nigga has 10 weeks experience and thinks he can get a good job lol. You need at least 2-3 years to be decent. 5-10 years to be real good. OP is not a programmer yet, that's why he can't get a job.

>>11079573
nobody wants junior devs though. that's OPs issue. I get it, junior devs know enough to be dangerous, but not enough to really be all that useful. get better OP

>>11079540
Get a fucking internship.
Be humble.

t. senior dev

>the absolute state of webcucks hahaha
being a god-tier C++ master with 350k salary remote job, feelsgoodman

>>11079540
Apply for QA jobs, QA automation/SDET if you can. far less competition than Dev, and assuming you do well you can migrate to dev later. Bank I consult at hired a ton of QA automation guys from bootcamps, and they're prob making a respectable 60k

>>11079540
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NcGWspX8xs

you're fucked, it's not your fault though. try freelancing for small shops to build experience.

>>11079570
listen to yourself anon - you have to learn all this increasingly complex crazy shit just so you can make 60-70k a year. is it really worth it?

you can make that much in just about any field, even being some spreadsheet bitch that writes emails all day

dont fall for the hype

>>11079540
if you want to do front end learn react and redux immediately. in demand, lightweight, and way less boilerplate than angular. if you want to do more than web apps, learn some OO language (java, c++, c#, etc.). learn python and r if you find data science and ML interesting. well just learn python anyway so useful and also in demand.

>>11082751
As someone studying mechanical engineering with one year to go, fucking this.

The amount of skills and knowledge we have to attain just to be a middle-class wage slave just isn't worth it unless you have a passion for this bullshit.

I regret going to university.

>he thinks he's a programmer now because he learned html in some code monkey scam bootcamp

>>11079634
>the echos of the wagecuck mind

>>11079573
>>11081618
both true

>>11082846
it's effectively communism in a way - Marx was right about capitalism leading to communism. that's not to say I'm a communist or I *want* communism.

but your specialized labor has now become as valuable as someone who writes emails or serves drinks at a bar

everyones labor becomes more or less valued at the same range of pay. this will be even more true in the next couple decades thanks to automation

>>11082846
STEMCONECTTTTTTTTTT

>>11082925
Yfw most Computer Engineering majors just end up with the same jobs as CS majors despite CE being more rigorous.

>>11082751
>>11082846

Lol, my thoughts exactly. Definitely not worth it. My degree was free though because I'm a eurocuck so at least I don't have any debt, just wasted time and effort.

t. fell for the CS degree meme

>>11079540
I love these guys. You know most CS courses take 3 to 5 years right? You cant just fucking do a 2 month whatever the fuck and then expect to be at the same level lmao wtf are you even on about

>>11082979
Yeah but a lot of that is fucking around with shit like binary trees and other esoteric shit that only academics care about.

Computer science is not just computer programming.

>>11082751
>you can make that much in just about any field, even being some spreadsheet bitch that writes emails all day
how can I write emails and spreadsheets for 70k?

>>11082925
Lots of engineers, science majors and math majors go into programming though

>>11083000
yup, now visualize the excess blue for the non-cs grads and tack it onto the comp sci bar graph.

all of a sudden the situation gets even bleaker.

>>11082997
get yourself a meme business/accounting degree

get a few years experience - become a business analyst, just go to meetings all day, be a socialite, and write emails like a faggot then act like you're hot shit

>>11082979
CS is worthless and a hard working, intelligent, white bootcamp type guy can run circles around you insufferable homos

>>11082997

I am an accountant for a Fortune 500. I spend about 3 hours in the morning responding to emails and editing spreadsheets. The rest of my day is useless meetings or playing on my phone. I clear 6 figures in the midwest. I was drunk 75% of the time getting my Bachelors and even the "prestigious" MBA program (my company paid for) was super easy.

>>11083117
nice, I wonder if I should get into accounting

>>11079540
you realize that a pajeet can do everything you do and probably at the same level of quality (since you did a fucking 10 week bootcamp instead of getting a degree) for 50 dollars right

why the fuck would i hire you

>>11079540
Funny thing I encountered if you let a pajeet run your local IT managment he will only ever hire other pajeets never a white male

>>11083133
So you don't have to live in New India you shortsighted boomer

>>11079642
You learned django, spring, and node in 10 weeks? Nice larp faggot.

>>11083544
PS: you thinking that node is a framework like spring and django proves larp. If you actually knew spring/django/express you would have 0 problems getting work.

>>11079540
>spent 10+ weeks and $10k+ at coding bootcamp
Retard you could've saved yourself $10k and learned online from cocecademy and all the other free learning resources

Take this as a life-saving advice and swallow the “red-pill”. Software is a dead-end career unless you are extroverted. It’s a technical area as opposed to functional. Learn a lot, earn a lot - within first 3–5 years - in order to improve your financial situation and invest aggressively (stocks and cryptos). If you have introverted tendencies, you have three options - gain charters in functional areas (finance / supply-chain) or move into techno-functional areas in enterprise systems (SAP / SAS / Oracle Financials / FactSet etc.) or find an “exit strategy”. In fact, I would aggressively suggest get a “secondary” career planned for contingency. As far as startups are concerned, don’t. Do your own non-tech side-business with a focus on cash-flow staying away from stressful, over-valued (hard to value a private company with a bleeding-bottom-line funded by easy-VC-money during a period of chronically-low interest-rate) , over-hyped and saturated commodity tech startups. Startups are overrated in software unless you have strong network/leadership/deal-making capabilities. Moreover startups were originally designed to work on tough-problems like decentralised governance (crypto) or novel drug delivery system (biotech), for example. Just don’t end up being a glorified engineer masqueraded as CTO in a “commodity” tech startup where founders are privileged with MBA without much operational-experience/engineering. Life is too short to stuck in those kind of startups. BTW, stop being influenced by media-induced brainwash about Zuckerberg or Gates. You have no idea (unless you read history objectively) how privileged they were and how much important role it played in their success. Coding talent were not so much.

So in summary: earn as much money in first 5 years, invest aggressively, get a side business going (pref non-tech) to teach yourself business skills including marketing and sales, get a secondary hobby/career going, try to gain charters in functional areas (finance-CFA etc) and plan an exit-strategy. Watch out for Automation and ML. Don’t ruin your life being fascinated by “good code”/“awesome architecture”/“beautiful asynchronous patterns”/”fantastic AWS toolset”. They eventually do not matter to business (what matters is competitive advantage and ROE; if you are into stocks, would highly recommend this amazing book to deep-dive on sustainable competitive advantage - The Little Book That Builds Wealth: The Knockout Formula for Finding Great Investments: Pat Dorsey) and to your precious life. Thank me later !!

>>11083123
Don't get into accounting unless you can secure some Govt Acc jobs. Public accounting is horrible. Use accounting for valuation stuff in stocks. Get a CFA. It's hard but go get it.

>>11079540
>How do I get a job?
Create one.

>>11080724
nigger what, i got100k a year job after 6 months self teaching coding, i am a minority though

>>11083823
only 100k? unless you're in the middle of nowhere you got scammed

>>11079540
Go into the store, demand to speak with the manager, look him in the eye and give him a firm blowjob

>>11079634
What is that assumption based on? Main difference is you take the money from the client directly instead of your boss taking it and handing you a penny wagie. Just dont be an autist and learn to sell yourself

>>11083823
how, where

>>11082979
I have a CS degree and you don't need a CS degree to be a good programmer. Everything in a STEM course can be taught. You just need a degree to bypass naive HR people.

>>11082925
every week I get a new job offer on linkedin and I have a master in CS

Webdevs are programmers like McDonald employees are chef

>>11084622
Wrong.

>>11083562
>codeacademy

my sides

>>11085397
You wish

>>11082751

Nah most likely a spreadsheet bitch will be making 40k while the stem “cuck” is making 80+. Few years later, 120+ while spreadsheet bitch is making even less due to inflation and worried about getting laid off

>Not learning PHP, LAMP, Java etc from internet while being 15 years old
>Not doing CS education networking with other autists
>Not getting sidejob offers during 1 or 2nd year
>Not getting hired to said job directly after
>Not getting 3-5 LinkedIn messages every week after you have 2 y experience

Yea you failed

>>11084293
yeah, if everyone needs a masters to get an entry level job the market is fucked.

>>11079540
you're a website monkey not a programmer

programmers don't need a $10k+ bootcamp to learn how to do one thing.
programmers know how to understand something they never seen before quicker than anyone and automate that shit

>>11079540
website in 3 laguages lol
like HTML, PHP and JS ?
what about CSS ?
>website in 1 language

oh wait, you meant urdu, punjabi and hindi ?

>>11082951
CE major here

Agreed fully and want to re-emphasize that CS degrees are piss easy compared to CE degrees

>>11083551

let's not pretend that any of those are very difficult to learn here

I mean, it's not 10 weeks easy but it's not something you need to spend 4 years on a degree to understand how to use

>>11086116
>programmers know how to understand something they never seen before quicker than anyone and automate that shit
fuck yeah goldfarming

>>11079540 (OP)

Unless you can be given a problem by people with zero programming knowledge, and design a solution that gets the job done while also being relatively (emphasis on relatively) efficient, you are NOT anywhere near hireable

Which boot camp and what kind?

t. did the HTML/CSS cert on freeCodeCamp, doing the JS one now and will then move on to a full stack boot camp

ps. 32 y/o Chicagoan with a BA in English

>>11086346

don't bother

go learn javascript, learn npm + node + react. that's a solid stack that probably won't go out of style any time soon. and by learning it yourself, you'll be preparing yourself for a career where every task involves some self learning

your 95 iq higher ups will throw a problem at you, give you zero direction and just expect you to solve it within a certain period of time. it's an expectation upon you to be able to learn fast and self sufficiently

>>11086366
Good tips.

I think I may learn those independently and then still do a full stack boot camp as a solid review, kick ass there and take full advantage of the job placement/networking opportunities. That’s the major draw for me with the boot camps, and there are some solid ones in Chicago.

>>11079540
>programmer meme
>coding bootcamp
>deploy a website

You're just a fucking retard who doesn't know what programming is. You're not a programmer. You're a fucking code monkey. Fuck off.

All you faggots are saying Cs is dead now then wtf should us zoomers major in?

>>11079553
>>11079642
>>11079653

Don't listen to these cucks. From someone with experience in the Industry...

All of those things are websites now.

Web development is the ONLY development.

Need a payroll system? It's a node/Django/Go backend with an angular/vue/react front end.

Same for 99% of other things.

The days of making a piece of software that needs to be installed and runs on a system are long dead.

>>11086500
The only difference between a code monkey and a programmer is that the programmer decides what he wants to code.

>>11079587
You dont know what the fuck you're talking about either.

>>11079540
Genuine question: why aren't you fags piling into crypto? Do you really prefer making webapps for shitty startups?

>>11086705
And what is your crypto used for exactly without the developers to build out your Eth ecosystem?

>>11086754
Mate learn to read. Fuck sake.

>>11086346
Any prior CS knowledge before you started boot camping? I'm 32 too and looking to get involved for multiple reasons

>self proclaimed programmer
>webdev

Every goddamn time. Any 12 yr old could pick up web development. Webdevs are a dime a dozen. Now, if you got into systems or embedded systems programming you would have much better job security and pay. Much more effort to learn, especially compared to what amounts to a few hours of tutorials worth of knowledge on youtube.

>>11086513
An actual CS program that doesn't coddle you and forces you to tackle difficult problems at low levels so that you understand the foundations of the field.

>>11086764
Lmao. Absolutely savage post

Hey anons, I will graduate with my Bachelor in Business next summer. Do you think a financial Master's degree will be a good continuation?
Eurocuck btw

>>11079540
Freelance on Upwork

>>11087009
Lol such a slave, education =/= money no more

>>11086580
As someone in the corporate world, where security is tantamount this is objectively false. Many integral systems are still self hosted and self secured. Its almost backwards actually. Desktop versions of these webapps are being made due to company security policy limitations.

>>11087009
agree with >>11087203
it literally doesnt help anymore. if it's required for the job, yeah do it. if it's not or if it's "preferred", then dont. experience is the main factor nowadays, in addition to relevant certifications.

pic probably related, waking up on a saturday to this nonsense. how early is too early to drink

bumping for interest

>>11079540
I'm self taught after a couple of years of grinding, I make $80k as a senior dev at a small company.
1. Focus on problem solving skills.
2. Look for smaller companies with business problems you can solve. These companies don't care what tech you know, they're looking for someone to listen to them and solve their problems.
3. Don't be an autist. To make good money, you have to be providing value. Sitting in a dark room by yourself and coding doesn't provide value. A lot of days, I solve business problems by making suggestions that don't involve any code.
4. Code is about business is about customers. I'm a mediocre programmer but I make more money than anyone else in my office because I'm not a shithead. I can walk into the CEO's office any time I want and shoot the breeze, my co-workers prefer to be in their own world.

>>11086802
You don't arbitrarily get to decide what programming is. Like it or not, there is a lot of web development that involves actual fucking programming - you know, writing instructions for the computer in fucking code. Yeah, there are varying degrees of difficulty and spinning up a wordpress install is not the same as programming but you sound like a pedantic, elitist faggot.
Solving business problems is not what matters, not what technology you use.

>>11088338
solid advice, thanks for your post

>>11088411
np. Just remember that it's about business, don't focus too much on technology. Just work on solving problems and not being too anti-social and you're in the money. Competition seems high if you focus on tech skills but the truth is you're competing against a bunch of stinky autistic nerds.

>>11079540
Programming is for people who love it and would be writing code their past time even without pay

>>11079554
kek

>>11079540

Dont bother its over. Listen to >>11079553 and go solve LOCAL problems where you can see who you are helping. Everyone is tired of dealing with someone they cant see and theres enough broken software in the world as it is right now.

Or, you can try to be >>11086580 and fomo into the rat race to build megacorporations. If you hate humanity this might be your route to choose.

>>11086124
>html and css are programming languages
Kill yourself.

>>11088391
Any decent programmer would have more than web stack experience. Thats the point. I didn't say what was and what wasn't programming. He was wondering why he wasn't valuable in the job market and I simply told him why. Get over yourself.

>>11089489
truth

>Get paid around $60,000 starting for an Indian company, in a middle level position, as a FULL stack programmer, and possibly administration type position very soon
>It's in Silicon Valley
With that pay, I made it.

Or am I doing work for far less money than everyone else? The money sounds like a lot and there's no degree in my possession.

>>11089752
Depends on experience. Its on the lower end though.

>tfw 33 and not clever enough to program anything so i make 30k a year doing a dumb dumb job

:(

bitcoin pls save me

>>11089752
As Schiff once said, "You're worth what you're worth."

>>11083647
>>11083656
you are suggesting finance and a fucking CFA instead of software to someone who is introverted... wtf

>>11087487

Which you make by wrapping the existing backend in Electron. Seriously, the only people not doing basically 100% Web apps are dinosaurs like government departments that are still running on .net legacy systems at this point.

>>11088809
he wrote "languages" not programming languages
>CSS is a style sheet language
>HTML is markup language

you are telling me to kill myself just because you would love to become an hero but can't even do that

>>11090937
why would you use javascript to make desktop apps when you have actual working programming languages

more brackets don't make more code

>>11079540
become a (non-obvious) trans woman. not kidding. any barely competent "woman" can take their pick of any programming job.

>>11082904
On a semi-related note, robotnik means “worker” in Russian.

>>11079540
You're doing something wrong, devs are so in demand right now there's no excuse not to have a job.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html

I got a job knowing a bit of Java and majoring in math, you aren't trying hard enough. Go to a professional tech recruiter, pay to get your resume fixed up, applying to every job on LinkedIn, Indeed, and Angel you find.

Literally no way you should have 0 interviews.

>>11091213
>change your gender to improve your chances of getting a job

the wagecuck's final form

>>11089930
85 iq pajeets from india can program though.

I don't get it, I graduated with a 2.2 GPA in CS and I got a job offer straight after graduation and have been working for 2 years. OP is probably a better dev than I am.

What I am doing differently than OP? Is the market really that bad right now?

>>11079540
The cryptocurrency space right now has a lot of people pushing for use case dapps coins functionality and also have a lot of extra money to throw around. Start looking at making dapps or services for dapps development.

>>11091642
Programming is a direct reflection of IQ and creativity... so no, they can't.

>>11086580
Fuck you. Web developers should be gassed.

With love, /g/.

>>11090937
Disgusting. Holy shit, I'n going to make sure that talentless hacks like you will be out of a job by 2022. If you think writing desktop applications with javascript and deploying a FUCKING BROWSER you are absolute scum. I'd hire 10 Java pajeets before you. At least they can write typesafe code.

>>11079540
Stop being a white Male. Your credentials dont matter anymore

>>11091123

Irrelevant. Javascript is a shit language, but it runs on everything (given that you can target browsers as if they were a virtual machine) & it has libs to do everything. You shouldn't even NEED to be hiring "integration specialists" etc any more, it's all just rest APIs & json. So why write the same application in platform specific languages without a large pool of coders to draw on or reinvent the wheel for 1000000th time? Just write the whole damn thing in Javascript (or a language that either transpiles to it or compiles to Web Assembly) and be done with it. Need it to be desktop? Done. Clientside browser Web app? Done. Mobile app? Done. Makes things much simpler.

>Inb4 muh blub paradox

>>11091836

Lel, keep dreaming. My last 4 contracts were scrapping Java Spring & Asp apps that got overengineered into the ground and rebuilding em with Node in about 1/10th the time. Clients don't give a fuck about language purity, concurrency support or anything else codemonkeys worry about, they just want it to work.

>t. Not Typesafe!
>kek at not using typescript or flows in currentyear

>>11092088
have fun writing any serious app with multithreading in javascript

>>11086815
This. I went to a top 10 CS school and pretty much everyone with over a 3.0 GPA got offers for 70k+ starting. The kids with 3.6+ & good projects mostly went on to FAANGs, which pay like 150k+ starting.

>>11092126
>they just want it to work.

This. Businesses care about results. They aren't going to waste resources just to make an application 20% faster on top of it being a maintenance nightmare several years down the road for the sake of satisfying the programmer's autism.

>>11079540
Learn something new. My 16 year old nephew can create a website

>>11092166

Fair point. Know how many apps I've needed a decent, true multithreaded solution for, beyond the shitty Nodejs single-threaded but non-blocking model in the past few years? 0. If I did I'd write that component in Clojure or Go or whatever the latest flavour of the month is - but it's just not needed. Math libs are about the only thing that needs that heavily, and the existing libs are good enough I have 0 need to do it myself.

>>11092428

This guy gets it. I still use Lisp at home for my personal projects (mainly just me fucking around being an autist), and I've really enjoyed getting into Haskell recently, but the business case for Node-everything is just too strong. Younger me cared, older me who now runs a dev shop understands that shipping a working & reliableproduct is the only thing that matters. If that means using the crappy meme-language Mozilla invented for marketing reasons, so be it.

>>11086290

Then what the fuck is the point of studying diff Eq and circuits when you’re just gonna end up writing JavaScript and Python crud apps like the CS kids? Is it a penis thing?

>>11079540
deploying a website isnt programming

>>11088455

This, x9000. There is one and only one purpose to software, and that's to implement & automate a business process in a way that's usable. Not how nice the semantics are, not whether it implements a Turing-complete type system, not whether it's "functionally pure", not even if it's 10% faster to run (and 2000% longer to code & maintain). This is why project managers and such make more money than most coders & the mark of a senior dev is simply that they solve the problem in the fastest & simplest way possible. Too many programmers can't get the above through their smelly, autistic little heads.

>>11089489

Lol if you go on Indeed nearly all the job postings are asking for some sort of web stack or cloud engineering person. I rarely see anything that asks for C or C++. I took a few classes in college that were in C and enjoyed them, but I never see job postings for that type of software so there’s no point in spending my time honing my skills in those languages unless for a hobby. One thing that makes webdev a challenge is there’s so much churn in whatever’s the most popular library/framework you can never get comfortable. Staying up to date is a bitch.

>>11089829
>>11090012
No experience at all, just learned everything over the past year.

>>11092785
The true purpose of software is to bring god back