/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>1456005
Sell stuff on Craigslist or OfferUp. Youll need a camera, and something to sell.

>>1456005

I'm successfully working online as a Copywriter.
Just got a new client and agreed to a $3000/month salary with a great learning opportunity.

I check /biz/ for threads like these (pic related) to hopefully help guys like you as I'm also working on starting my own business focused on "how to make money online".

I've been down that road, but my journey is far from over.

What do you want to know? What skills do you have?

Buy and shill trumpcoin. Shill enough to be picked up by media, then cash out once normal people get interested.

>>1456082
Not OP but how did you begin? People always tell great stories of their business(es) now but not on how they first began.

Mind greentexting your story?

>>1456091

Sure, but I don't have a business (yet), I have an established online presence in my particular niche (Copywriting).

> Be me, 18yr non-native English speaker, but after years of Cartoon Network and then Internet develop better speaking/writing skills than natives.
> Start studying English Philology while still dependant on parents financially
> School sucks, I need more money and I'm not gonna beg my parents
> Find Elance/Odesk (now Upwork) and start working as a translator
> Get my first client after months of proposal writing and frustration.
> Get my first testimonial and paycheck
> Now that I have a single positive review, it's a matter of messaging a potential client first and being responsive (very important)
> Get work on and off, making several hundred per project every two weeks or so.
> After a year and a half I'm way past my competitors, I can charge more because quality costs more and is determined by the amount of reviews I have.
> The pay still sucks balls and the work takes too long.
> Think that I can just write stuff in English and after trying ghostwriting and article writing I stick with creating advertisements (Copywriting).
> Using emotions, fears, persuasion and psychological triggers to get people to take some actions just gets me really interested in my work.
> IMPORTANT: read "Richest Man in Babylon" and "The Millionaire Fastlane" that gets me in a whole different mindset and I realize the potential of having a skill that is valuable.
> It's my third year in university and I'm making more than the dean while working from my bed or during boring lectures.
> Join Facebook groups and forums to get more knowledge and advice from successful people.
> As I finish university, I have a skill that will get me paid even if I'm dropped into a new city with nothing but my laptop.

This greentext sucks because it's so broad, but that's how I went from freeloader to freelancer during my studies.

If you need specifics I'm always around.

>>1456107
I hope that you realize(realise?) that you've inspired another person. You're a remarkable person and I hope nothing stops you and your work. Godspeed anon

>>1456132
Thanks man!

Also, realize is correct, unusual but correct just like realise. Don't know why I always write it that way.

Read the two books I mentioned and they will definitely make you think about doing something with your life (assuming you're not).

There are audiobooks of those as well and you can just listen while driving/cooking/etc.

>>1456107
Interesting story. Still I can't imagine how you would make more than the dean. In my country (Central Europe) the dean makes about 200 000 euros. When I look at Upwork, the "best" writers get about 25 dollars per hour. Just doesn't fit?

Also, wouldn't it be a problem with writing that it scales poorly, i.e. that you can only do so much in your limited time and the core of it cannot really be automatised?

PD: "s" is generally British English, and "z" generally American English.

>>1456167
I'm not from a very rich country and the university is considered as a lower quality one, but I wanted to get that Bachelor's degree just to be safe and to prove to my parents I'm not a degenerate.

As for Upwork, it's only an option for beginners, because as you said yourself the "best" get about $25/hour which is crazy.

Think of it this way - if you're writing an entire funnel (landing page, emails, video scripts, checkout page, etc.) for a product that will generate $100K/week, it's not inappropriate for you to ask for $4k down-payment plus 10% from total sales.

Of course, you do have to have knowledge and experience to sell that product, but deals like this are common in decent circles unlike Upwork lol.

Join "The Cult of Copy" and see for yourself, it was a breath of fresh air to me after Upwork.

If someone posts that they're looking for a writer and the pay is below $15/hour they get laughed at an mocked - it's really amazing and inspiring.

You can scale writing by taking in new clients who agree to pay more and cutting off the bottom ones who can no longer manage with your fees. There are always people who value quality and results and they pay well for it.

If you pay peanuts expects monkeys.

>>1456189
Thanks for contributing. I feel bad that I can't contribute really. I have a friend who does webdesign and who gets great contacts for great work with big companies, he's doing fucking well. Then my cousin does webdesign and he's employed at a firm and it's a soul-crushing nine-to-five gig with mediocre pay. He says you can't do webdesign on your own because you don't get the good well-paid work as an individual. So there's that, probably not mind-boggling news.

Why not work on a Zeppelin OP

>>1456244

The formula to getting paid big bucks in any freelance job is basically this:

1. Study your craft and always take notes, lots of them (from books, courses, whatever)

2. Find a medium where professionals and high-level people from your niche meet. (In my case Cult of Copy)

3. Consistently put out valuable content from your notes, without pitching or asking for anything in return.

3.5 People will start seeing you as a professional who knows what he's talking about

4. Post that you're looking for a client or pm someone who's looking for a freelancer.

5. Choose from several proposals and negotiate your rates or just go with what works best for you.

That's it. (But there's a hook)

Some people are just borderline introverts who shiver at the though of being active, frequent and positive on social media, I was one of those people. I always laughed at guys filming themselves on their phones and talking about motivation - then I saw their 5-figure monthly paycheck and it was a reality check.

That's why it's called a hustle, because you have tune out all the people who might laugh at you or try and discourage you from chasing your dreams.

If some people are comfortable with a routine, 9-to-5, office, boss, etc. that's their choice.

You will have to get uncomfortable to reach 6-figures and work for yourself.

>>1456274
That's very insightful. Are you by any means shilling cult of copy?

blog.objectiveforex.com/p/passiveincome.html

>>1456496
Wouldn't call it shilling.

I'm just an active member of the group, I post, comment and engage with topics I find interesting.

I have long-term clients so most times there's really no direct benefit to me posting something. If I find something relatable, interesting or funny I'll just post it.

I never post my own stuff - but if other members do and it's good, then it's free publicity to a very lucrative audience.

You actually got something there, that's a killer shortcut.

>>1456005

buy monero

>>1456005
Camwhoring

>>1457559
Sounds like free money if you are willing to show your face.
But I'm pretty sure that if you're a guy you have to put things in your ass and even then you can't make as good money as sexy girls.
Idk though, someone with experience?

>>1457567
You would be surprised. There are many old pervs willing to throw money at the screen for your boipucci.

>>1456005
Any work that can be done remotely, is done by pooindaloo pajeets working 50cents an hour.

>>1457580
This. And it's getting worse with bringing internet to third world.

How good is Usertesting.com?

Holy shit

I just got fantastic inspiration

>>1457983
aaaaaaand its gone

>>1457991
story of my life.

ON topic: I'm thinking about creating a website with practical step by step instructions on how to create an online business/affilate site
I haven't made big money with my sites yet, but I know the steps to create niche sites
Am I a scammer if I start this loophole? I guess it's not lying if I don't mention how much I make with my sites.

>>1456107

Where are you from?

I like your attitude

>>1458294
Eastern Europe, Baltic region. However, I travel all over the place.

Why do you ask?

Maybe you can camwhore + erotic roleplay + artwork drawing for huge huge cash.

Holy shit, I just got the greatest idea
Already registered domainname + vps

>>1456082
I know I'm late to the thread but what other options are there besides writing? I've always enjoyed writing but I don't know where (as in what websites to go to) to get started.
I have an $800 camera which I won from a school event lol, can I make money using that?

>>1459793
Anything you can do online that is in some way valuable to others, whether it's for entertainment, business, motivation, whatever.

You can go to Upwork and see the categories for yourself - it's a really long list.

As far as the camera goes, I'd say it would be perfect to set up quick videos showing relevant, informative and valuable information in the niche you choose.
Get your face known and people will want to interact with you since you're "the guy who showed how to do X" when they were struggling with it.

>>1456082
I'm a very ideas based person, I always think of marketing strategies and such. What do I have to do to become a copywriter? I've watched all
The mad men episodes

>>1459817
There is Google, there are facebook groups, there are forum threads here, there and everywhere all covering the 'absolute beginners' copywriting stuff.

Having said that, I recommend you answer one question before you ask:

1. Why are you writing?
Usually there are one of a few answers to this.
a). To get rich with a side gig
b). To write copy for your own business
c). To write copy for one or multiple businesses as a freelancer

If a). then I recommend you stop reading and go do something else.
Copywriting is a lucrative industry, but you'll be up against sharks who have more drive, more motivation, more determination and more skill than you ever can muster from wanting to work a 'four hour work week' and get rich.

Unless you're passionate about business and can commit some serious time and attention, then copywriting is not the 'easy side gig' that it's touted to be in some circles.

What copywriting will do is get you exposed to some of the most foundational and crucial aspects of business that exist: crafting and communicating highly-compelling sales messages to potential buyers.

If b) and c), then start getting introduced to marketing principles at the same time.

As a beginner, you'll need to learn the ropes of both copywriting and marketing.

The very simplest introduction to copywriting and marketing are these books:

"Scientific Advertising"
-by Claude Hopkins

"The Robert Collier Letter Book"
-by Robert Collier

"Tested Advertising Methods"
-by John Caples

"How To Write A Good Advertisement"
-by Vic Schwab

"The Gary Halbert Letter" (all back issues)
-by Gary Halbert

"The Boron Letters"
-by Gary Halbert

"The Lazy Man's Way to Riches"
-by Joe Karbo

"Break-Through Advertising"
-by Eugene M. Schwartz

"7-Steps To Freedom"
-by Ben Suarez

These won't get you far, but they'll give you a toe hold on the subject. From there you'll be able to decide how difficult the path ahead of you is, and how much work you're prepared to put in.

Check this podcast episode out if you want to give yourself a better idea of the potential out there for making online.

http://www.tropicalmba.com/shopifyninjas/
- Starting With Productized Services: Learn a Skill, Package It For Sale, Then Scale -

With whatever you do, it's a common practice to do content marketing around it.

Here's a good episode on the value of content marketing
https://empireflippers.com/wpcurve/

And here's a good speech by Nathan Barry
https://vimeo.com/95680313

Basically it pays to surround yourself (and your buy button) with potential customers

Out of everything I've posted: Nathan Barry started his career as a writer on design and marketing. He now has a software company for email marketing.
Dan Norris has done various things and now has a company for wordpress site development and management.
Empire Flippers is a 5 - 7 figure website marketplace.
I forgot what shopify ninjas does.
The Tropical MBA guys manufactured valet podiums, portable bars, and cat furniture in china and sold them. They recently sold the companies as a bundle for a few million.

Here's an entertaining episode on manufacturing in china.
http://www.tropicalmba.com/canton/

>>1456091
Have you ever looked up stories of businesses?

They always talk about their founding story. Maybe get off of 4chan where the majority of the people are lying.

I've posted a make money online thread where I happened to recommend an entrepreneurial book. The few people that posted called me a shill.

Nothing productive has ever come out of 4chan use.

The next time you want to browse 4chan, watch this instead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yPfxcqEXhE

>goes to a design school and meets his best friend
>they plan on starting a business
>quit their jobs and move to SF
>rent out their apartment for a design conference in order to make money while they think of their idea
>turns into AirBnB, a company valued at $30 Billion

>>1459861
Although you do make good points, I would disagree with your view of 4chan.

While other boards are just filled with trolls, /biz/ and several other boards can actually have valuable and detailed info inside.

That's why I try to contribute and make it more productive/valuable.

I even got a client from /biz/ who pays me every month for Copywriting services and we've been working together for over a year.

>>1456082
where would a first time copywriter find his first jobs?
i am slowly working through a copywriting course and have never done it before. i am just doing this course in my spare time, but would like to make money in it one day soon.

i've seen you post in other threads and it made me find out more, but i'm still clueless really about how to go about it. hard work is no problem, long hours are no problem. not knowing where to look for jobs is a bit of a problem.

>>1460176
m8, there's at least 2-3 sites mentioned in this thread, it's not that hard

>>1456244
I started my own marketing consulting agency/firm/whatever sounds better in the client's mind, I do web design and charge $300 per website. A flat VERY cheap fee to get my foot in the door, then I start selling them SEO and other services that are still reasonably priced, but enough for me to live well.
There are tons of ways to get paid what you want, you just have to show competency and value yourself. much like >>1456274 says

>>1456107
Latvian worm here, curious if I can make something like this occur as well, I've got reasonable writing skills, both in speed and technique/presentation, but no clue where to begin.

>>1460814
Writing is only one part of it, you need to learn about selling.

Refer to >>1459819

Also, read this thread a couple more time, there's plenty info here. If you miss something - ask.

>>1460244
I had very similar idea anon, create websites from scratch / use wordpress and mainly focus on the SEO part (because i feel there's good money to be made) How much do you charge and what kind of plans are you selling? Where's the best place to learn about SEO?

Kickstart Starcraft 3

>hack email accounts
>gain access to bank accounts
>send through 3rd party payment processor to account abroad
>????????
>profit

make around 5-10k a month with very little effort

>>1458297
oh shit im from baltic region as well.

>>1459861
Name of the book please?

>>1459936
I think /tg/ is the only intellectual place on all of 4chan and a few of the quality places present on the internet.

>>1462465
duno man /biz/ looks pretty intellectual to me

>>1459854
>>1459861

Thanks man. There is a degree of irony in saying that nothing productive has ever come out of 4chan use, because I've now got all those links you've just posted. It's like a loop.

>>1462598
That's because you're a fucking moron :^)

Has anyone on here ever made a living - or at least an income - through an email list? Or something similar?

I've tried copywriting and personally, I didn't like it. I felt fake, and the copy probably would've felt fake to you too. The other day I was browsing >reddit and I saw a post from a guy who started an email list that posted bargain flights. It gained revenue through subscription fees.

I liked it because it means doing the work behind the scenes in order to give people what they want. It seems like a good fit for me. Maybe I'm being a bit naive, and I haven't really done a great deal of research yet, so can anyone educate me on this business model?

Well I'm planning on opening my own business before I turn 19.

I won't say for sure how well I can inspire but I went from a coke addict binging for days from New Orleans to Baltimore and now I feel good about myself.

If anyone wants to talk I'm here for yall.

Essentially I found a niche that I was extremely familiar with, I may go so much as to say I'm an expert. Have a solid plan, inventory, and office set up.

Profjections are very good and the overhead is extremely minimal.

However it'll be almost a month before I can walk unsupported due to an accident so for now it's on backhold.

>Essentially I found a niche that I was extremely familiar with,
>I may go so much as to say I'm an expert.

You're gonna be a dealer?

>>1459819
As an SEO Consultant, I'm gonna check these books out. Thanks for the recommendation.

>>1462881
How'd you kick the coke?

>>1456005
I used to do drop shipping with alibaba and the some e commerce site (shopify maybe?). If you create your own e commerce site you can turn a bigger profit. Made about 400 bucks profits in a month selling cheap watches for "free". Then the clients paid for shipping, all shipping profits were profit to me (minus 3-5 dollars for the watch price). Very low maintance, but you gotta find good keywords for marketing/not get banned.

>>1462940

That's a pretty neat idea

>>1462921
Hah for better or for worse no. I made really good money selling it back in the day but everything I saved went up my nose.

>>1462930
Honestly? If I hadn't gotten arrested I'd still be face deep in a bag.

I could go through an ounce of fish in maybe 8-9 hours. It was that bad.

Jail sobered me up, facing 8-10 also did that. In the end getting off almost scott free was motivation enough to kick it.

It's funny though but I probably will indulge again sometimes but not as bad as I did before.

>>1456005
invest time into a career that is set up such that allows you to work from home through the internet from your computer.

-computer programming, concept art, illustration, day trading, whatevs. just don't waste time filling out online questionaires and surveys for 3 e-bucks each...

>>1462868
no man if you disclude the neets. /biz/ is smart

>>1462940
The shipping fees go to you? I thought they went to the company that ships them.

Anyway do you guys know how do I set up a good referral link website? be it porn, cute, funny, (all 3 of them). Do I use Short.st + google ads + ad.fly?

>>1463267
>if you disclude the stack of hay, it's a needle

>>1462940
>drop shipped and said the product was free, except for shipping

Franklin Hatchett is that you?

>>1456005
Go to garage sales and buy old magazines, then flip them on ebay. People collect old magazines for some reason. You can buy a box of them for a couple dollars and sell each online for the same you paid for all of them.

Also
>im tired of being a wealthless neet
The words you're looking for are "poor" and "NEET". Have you considered getting a job? You won't be rich, obviously, but at least you won't be a NEET.

>>1456107
> Be me, 18yr non-native English speaker, but after years of Cartoon Network and then Internet develop better speaking/writing skills than natives.

This will always confuse me.

I did pretty much the same thing as you, but I'm a native English speaker and I picked up Spanish, which I then turned into Portuguese (both kinds), and Italian. I've met many people from all kinds of origins, but without fail, ESL's seem to be better at English than native speakers, unless they are an immigrant to America.

America is a killing word for intellectualism. That's the only reason I can come up with. A Spanish speaker would never say "Yo y tu fuimos" or "Por mi", but you hear "You and me went" and "For me personally/For myself" all the time in English.

>>1463955
>America is a killing word for intellectualism

It's not, it's just that different people in different regions generally shorten and abbreviate words, not to mention the misuse of actual words. It is more or less the effect of immigrants that aren't native speakers of English, speaking their own version of English, over several centuries. Eventually, you're going to have a diluted version of English

>>1458283

sites like these exist Google it. so go for it if you really want

>>1456082
You seem like a knowledgeable person, and from what I've gathered from your posts, you do not live in the USA.

If you're still reading this thread, I'm thinking about starting a writing career as well, my current work is pretty laid back and I have a great deal of free time to make some bucks online.

What I wanted to know, though, is how do you deal with taxes and how do you ensure you will receive your payment? Since I do not live in the USA, I can't help but think that I'll get scammed by my clients or the tax jew will stunt my growth.

>>1460897
I work in a factory. This is like the 3rd fucking factory I have worked in. I don't want to anymore.

What do I have to do to become your bitch? Do you have a throwaway email or something?

>>1464209

That's right I'm not in the US (yet).

With taxes I actually didn't pay them while I was going through university, because my healthcare was covered and I didn't make THAT much to really be noticed.

After I graduated I went to the tax building and got registered as a Self-Employed Independent Contractor.

Your country will definitely have this option or similar.

I have to file taxes at the end of the year and this will be my first year so I can't really answer fully.

As for making sure clients pay - always ask for 50% upfront. If you're starting with Upwork, the one thing they do right is look after freelancers and if there's a dispute over payment you'll win almost always.

In fact, it's more common for a freelancer to run away with the money rather than not getting paid.

I have fallen for one scam, but ended up scamming the scammers. Best advice with this - if it's too good to be true ($50/hr pay when you have 0 experience) it's probably a scam.

>>1464788

Yeah that sucks, I got a cousin working in factories, but I think he realizes in a way that that's good enough for him atm.

I'm not in a place where I can take someone and effectively train them or whatever. Start reading the book I mentioned here and you'll find a good mentor on The Cult of Copy.

Post your email and I'll contact you if you wanna chat more.

>>1465127
ekjs@sr.ro.lt

Alright.

>>1462598
"Biz looks pretty intellectual" confirmed new meme

>>1465127
Thanks, man. I'll start with upwork because I'm not that confident in my writing skills at the moment. I do think I'll have some headaches with registering as a Self-Employed Independent Contractor because I'm a lawyer and the legislation in my country is pretty retarded, but I'll do my research.

Guess I'll just focus on making money first, then I'll think about handling taxes and scammers. If I somehow manage to mix writing, lawyering and building some passive income websites, I think I'd be set.

To indulge on your good will once more, I'll ask: what type of rates should I charge on up works as an apparent beginner with no portfolio? I say apparent because my current job basically requires me to persuade others through writing, but I have no portfolio to show my work.

>>1461008
How?

>>1465520
I would suggest you set a goal with UpWork.

Write at least 5 job application every day for 2 weeks, the chances of actually getting hired are very high then.

I wouldn't charge less than $20/hour on Upwork, but hourly payments suck.

You should also look very closely at The Cult of Copy and The Cult of Copy Job Board - that's where you want to get hired (preferably by an expert marketer who will teach you valuable shit).

When you talk about a project, try and imagine the value of what you'll be writing - how many people will it reach and what kind of profit might it make over a week, month, year.

Once you have that number, it will be easier to see what is appropriate to charge.

>>1456107
>and then Internet develop better speaking/writing skills than natives.

Oh fuck the fuck off

You will NEVER EVER speak better than ANY native

You may read and write better than some of the uneducated natives, but their English will still ALWAYS be better than yours.

The arrogance of ESL retards. Unbelievable.

Bump

>>1468515
Did he take your job or something?