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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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15204122 No.15204122 [Reply] [Original]

Hey /biz/, I have questions about my place in a startup company and I don't know where to turn to since my friends are entirely risk-aversive.

I'm a 22 yo programmer / electrical engineer with skill in c++ and AI. I am in business with a 41 yo entrepeneur, let's call him Gerard.

Gerard has found a market gap in a project that roughly acts like an employment agency combined with an academy.
He has contact with some higherups I could only have dreamed of ever knowing, rich investors seasoned in their trades. They see huge potential and invested a great deal of money in his project, we have some 400m2 of space. Gerard however, doesn't have too much money. He's completely dependant on this project succeeding, otherwise he'll be far underwater.

Now he's been calling me his elite sniper, he doesn't tell people of my existance within the company. He thinks I'm most valuable designing the entire information pathway of this project on the down low (think finances, internet marketing, database scanning for job hunting, computer related things for the education). He seems to like me a great deal, however, I'm not payed yet. He promised me a % of profit in the company since he has no means of paying me right now. I am somewhat prepared to invest in a startup and potentially take massive gains but I also need to survive.

>What could be his reasons to keep me private, and should I trust him?
>Should I keep on investing time in the project, or walk away?

I am free to work whenever, I'm not bound by time or rules. I also have leverage, I can demolish his entire ICT happening right the moment he'd fuck me over.

>> No.15204130

yeah just keep working for free dude

>> No.15204137

Blackmail him, he is obviously trying to con you

>> No.15204153

get a founders agreement or similar legal document made that names you as a stake holder

doesnt matter that you can shred the backend; if he legally owns it and you do youre going to jail and or small claims court

>> No.15204165

>>15204122
Seems like a good guy. I think you can trust him.

>> No.15204174

>>15204122
if you think the % is a good deal get it in writing and signed, SOON

if not then it seems like hes relying on you, so you could probably threaten to quit and hed pay you

>> No.15204207

>They see huge potential and invested a great deal of money in his project
Then he can easily afford to pay you.

>> No.15204220

>>15204122
You being kept a secret more or less means you're off the books.
Off the books means you have nothing to stand on to claim a stake.
Promises are just that, promises. Mere words.
Get yourself a legally binding contract.

>> No.15204248

>>15204130
You'll have to do that anyway if you'd ever want to take a big share in a company

>>15204137
I've strictly told him that already as a c++ programmer I charge €60 / hour or more because of the skills I have.

>>15204153
Hmmm the backend is not in his name, the documented concepts are all mine.

>>15204153
>>15204174
>>15204220
He did propose to me to become a registered employee / share holder but it has never been realized, I'll try to push it trough.

>>15204165
I think so, I hope so, but I should never trust so.

>>15204207
The money is directly invested in the project, the only money he sees is to buy his bread, gas, and cigarettes.

>> No.15204275

>>15204248
€60 / hour for a junior engineer where the fuck do you live nigga?

>> No.15204295

>>15204275
The Netherlands

>> No.15204345

>>15204248
>Hmmm the backend is not in his name, the documented concepts are all mine.
Oh boy hahaha

>> No.15204590
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15204590

>>15204122
>>15204248
This guy is a liar OP, he has no money and I am doubtful about his contacts. You are supposed to be an integral part of the company but you don't get paid, no one knows about you, and your name doesn't appear on any piece of paper. You realize the other owners of the company have a legal right to know what share they own? You realize if you own some, then they don't have any clue what they own or how much they are getting? These guys are a dime a dozen in the business world, you have to learn to spot and avoid them:
>Be sociopath with no tech skills or money
>Convince everyone around you that you have money and "connections" and are starting a business
>Get people with actual skills to work for "a share of the company to be written down and decided upon later"
>Raise money using charisma and the guy who's working for free
>Misappropriate all the money invested into your bank account
>Project falls apart as the same time as your lies, find new people, repeat

>> No.15204977

>>15204590
This is what I'm going to do, I'll develop part of the database search algorithm. This is one of the more important parts of the company. I'll show him but won't give it to him, now he has leverage with the investors and he'd better raise the money to invest in me too.
If he won't, I'll walk away.

>> No.15205065
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15205065

>>15204122
Anon, this is one of the oldest manipulation techniques business people use to make young inexperienced people do lots of work without demanding fair pay.

You are being fucked. The only possible result of this "cooperation" is a burnout. As an engineer myself, I have seen this happening to so man young men, it's crazy. DO NOT DO THIS!