/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>28562549
why should I pay taxes if the government will allow my city to burn with smirks on their faces? serious question

I wrote yes, but only claimed a few of my gains to get them of my back. I don't think the IRS has the capabilities to fully audit crypto transactions yet so I should be safe for now, if they do try to kick of an audit in the future it won't matter because I would have already made it, allowing me to hire a top tier tax jew lawyer to fight them in court

>>28562549
If you lie on this question and you used your credit card, debit card, or KYC on ANY exchange, then it will come back to bite you in the ass with a fine you can't afford to pay.
They will check KYC and all cards registered to you for crypto transactions.

So I hope you bought all your cryptos with cash if you plan to tax evade.

>>28563098
They won't do shit

>>28563098
>>28563217
Also just because you don't get fined the first year for it, doesn't mean you won't be fined for it say 2-5 years from now when they have even better tracing capabilities.
So you pretty much fuck your self by answering no or lying on the amounts.

Only if you used cash to monero and then traded with that can you truly escape.

>>28563098
>>28563257
To further add to that, if you ever get fined or have been fined, they will spend extra time checking your taxes out every single year for the rest of your fucking life.
So enjoy that.

>>28562763
Based.

>>28562700

Oh gosh, is your city still there? I heard it got burned to the ground!

>>28562763
Chances are high you will get away with writing a lower amount this year, however their capabilities to trace this will rapidly expand over the coming years, including double checking old transaction hashes with automated systems to see their actual values.
So you will definitely be fined for it in a few years.
I can 100% guarantee it.

>>28562549
what if i only lost money on crypto all year

>>28563601
Then you'll be able to prove that and get a tax deduction.
Of course if it turns you you lied about losing or how much you lost, well then you are fucked when they finally mail you the fine in a couple of years.

>>28563369
biden has replaced federally employees with niggers and trannies
they wont and cant do shit
biden is unironically based because of this

>>28562549
should i also include my runescape and habbo hotel money?

>>28563601
I did this, but also used a lot of money getting drugs shipped. And a lot of those txs went thru debit card but I laundered the shit outta my coins and converted to monero. I’ve technically been rugged 5 times this year and I’ve almost ruined myself, I’m not gonna out “Yes” when I’ve literally made no money and the majority of my fiat btc purchases were for illicit goods

>>28562549
I don't think the israeli revenue stealers realize what happens when they make evading, and then paying penalities with the untaxed gains a more lucrative and headache-free affair than doing their convoluted minefield of paperwork.

>>28563733
oh nice, i am on the right track now but still about $250 down from where i started

>>28562549
I don't even pay my normal taxes.

>>28562549
Reminder to cash out your permanent gains into monero frens

>>28563217
I got a letter from them 4 years ago because cuckbase was queried by them for their entire customer base. I promise you anon, they can and will do something if you've done any KYC and your funds have touched the KYC account.
https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/taxes-reports-and-financial-services/taxes/irs-notification.html
https://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-changes-us-customer-tax-form

IRS targets low wealth people way more than high wealth. They moved the crypto question to the beginning for a reason. Catching crypto gains is the IRS' top priority.

The IRS runs on extremely outdated equipment.

OP here and I actually clicked yes like a bitch. If I lost all my gains in a "PnD" scams and stashed it away in monero in minecraft, will the government dogs still sniff after my trail?

Personally, if I've ever cashed anything out at all, it's likely a bit less than even $1k
I think I'm just going to keep answering no until I have enough money to get a CPA and have them worry about it, maybe filing amended forms for me so the IRS leaves me alone.
Even then, outside of buying a house, I'm probably just going to loan against my assets and just never worry much about tax problems.

The 4th Amendment is good enough protection from the prying eyes of the IRS. It would be a pretty clear cut case if they took me to court for not revealing my holdings. They only get to intervene if I change anything I have to fiat. Otherwise, this would be an absolute field day for any legitimate attorney and I think they'd be chasing me down once any of them caught wind of it.

Don't remember but I had to pay state taxes after closing out my account.

What happens after you click yes? I haven't sold anything. Do they ask for purchase history, because that would be bullshit. Don't have to report stock purchases, only sales.

>>28565976
Just asking what all you own isn't in line with the 4th Amendment, anon.
Them insisting you sell what you own to pay the taxes on something you haven't converted back to Fiat would be an easy case for any attorney, I'd guess.
I'm no attorney though.
I wouldn't worry much about it so long as you hire someone to walk you through all of the bullshit.

Getting the IRS sicked on you is probably not worth it. Instead, spend that money on having a qualified individual assist you with Tax Avoidance, which is both legal and common, which is entirely different than Tax Evasion, which is very illegal.

If you know nothing about any of the tax situation(s) and you haven't cashed anything out, hiring someone isn't worth your time, but they will likely still take your call if you don't have any fiat and only internet money.

>>28565488
Delusion: the post

>>28562700
This. All it takes is 1 percent of the population to not pay taxes. They dont have ebough employees to even make a dent in the amount of audits

>>28563547
Cheapest way to collect taxes:
>make them afraid not pay
Irs is a paper tiger

>>28565101

Lost or stolen crypto are still taxable it looks like:
https://cryptotrader.tax/blog/reporting-stolen-or-lost-cryptocurrency-for-tax-purposes

I dont know much about monero. Obviously they could see that you sent X amount of monero into a monero address, but is it easy for them to see the amount of monero that comes out of that address to another address?

wondering if sending to monero would anonymize someones gains (in minecraft) and allow them pretend they no longer have access to the coin.

>>28566334
Thanks for responding.
Please explain where I'm wrong. I'm genuinely just trying to learn.

>>28563098
Jesus anon, just tell them to fuck off. If everyone refuses to pay then what can they do?

>>28563733
What if I just keep my profits on my account and pull my initial investment and just don’t report the profits because technically I haven’t cashed out? Say I put in 1k then gained 1k. So now I have 2k in my Coinbase. I pull out 1k and only report that I broke even. Meanwhile my other 1k in my Coinbase I can use and invest in crypto and just play with the profits, not reporting it as profit to the IRS because I just have it in crypto.

>>28564116
Throw every letter thats not certified in the trash retard. They’re phishing scams by the irs itself. Only people that get audited are the ones that respond. Only people that get cancer are the ones who get “tested”

>>28563257
>this regime will exist in 5 years

>>28566496
>>28566774
So many people here are going to learn the hard way that you can't win against the tax man over the next few years...

>>28566816
You used Coinbase, so they will know. Coinbase reports directly to the IRS.
Every method you think of except using cash to buy and never fucking up is the only way to avoid the tax man.

Tomorrow is a trip to the bitcoin atm.
I'm going all in on Monero in small amounts, because in the future privacy will be the greatest luxury and worth investing in.

>>28566984
Every year the same number of people get audited

Serious question, if you're not trying to scam the IRS, do you just pay capital gains on what you get when you cash out? And if so, is transferring your gains to Tether and holding for a while before cashing out the way to go, since you'd be getting long-term capital gains tax that way?

>>28566864
Is there a statute of limiting for not paying taxes? I knew two guys that said they didn’t. One was a 20 year old Puerto Rican that worked as a dishwasher. He said he never did his taxes. The other was a guy who lives on a sailboat and collected food benefits from California because apparently it’s really easy to get here.

>>28566984
I'm pretty sure the laws are if you earn less than $20k and make under like one thousand trades in a calendar year, they don't aren't legally compelled to report anything about holdings.

Can you respond to >>28565488 with your opinion, please?

>>28566774
>If everyone refuses to pay then what can they do?
Throw you in jail

>>28567174
Oh so if your a neet that got lucky with unemployment compensation and you only mooned under 20k then then you don’t have to report taxes right?

Click no, and when the IRS calls you pretend you're blind and say you couldn't read the website and the screen reader wasn't working. Then just keep doing that until they stop calling.

>>28566984
The IRS today just sends out letters and hopes you are a faggot.
They spend their time now getting sued by Microsoft for asking them to pay taxes, and go back and forth with boomers that pay everything but income until they settle for 20% of the original sum after he makes gains on it for a decade.
That was before half to country was avoiding taxes, and they were afraid of being ventilated on every knock outside of their standing army strongholds.

>>28567143
I know a guy who hasnt filed in 20 years and just throws the letters away, only a couple over that time. They send them out and get the suckers who respond

>>28562549
what are the chances that the IRS starts using GRT to audit us bros?

>>28567128
If you hold for a year and don't earn more than $20k, you don't pay any tax. For higher earnings, the taxable amount is at a lower rate for following a year long hold.
I believe "selling" to a stablecoin isn't a taxable event.
Again, I'm not well-versed in these laws and not qualified to give any advice.

>>28567143
Oh and I meant the signature required mail not certified. So everything else in the trash you settle for like 10% of what you would have paid.

>>28567306
I'm 100% positive that that isn't what I wrote.

>>28566689
It’s called structuring dumbass

Just in Robinhood they handle all that shit I just plug my number into turbo tax

>>28567495
I'm simply trying to better understand.
I think I have an idea about what you mean (and obviously agree that makes perfect sense), but I'd love if you'd explained more to me.
Thanks for the help.

>>28562549
How does this work? Am i taxed on my gains even if i never cashed out? What is the price crashed in 2017 and its going up again. Am i taxed twice?

>>28567584
Google “structuring tax evasion”

>>28567668
No. I've no intention of evading taxation.

>>28567128
Someone plz answer this

>>28566653
it is not possible to hide your transaction using US currency. it just gets more time consuming to track. protip: computer money can be tracked no matter what type, pull your head out of your ass

>>28567143
I dont have an answer to your question, but i enjoyed the story

>>28567745
CPAs aren't very expensive.
Hiring one may not be worth it if you have less than six figures though.
There's a lot of services you can use where you enter your wallet address where you've done most of your trades and they'll actually comb through them and tell you how much to pay in taxes. I don't the service is all that expensive.

>>28567327
This is good for GRT

>>28567715
your posts indicate otherwise

>>28565488
4th amendment lul. Apparently you haven't noticed. The gov't doesn't give a shit about the constitution or your rights.

>>28563792
The IRS will pursue you aggressively.

>>28567990
I have every intention of AVOIDING taxation where possible and if whoever I hire finds discrepancies that mean I have to amend past forms, that's fine. I simply don't want to get taken advantage of or do something stupid.
I have to have money to pay the guy with. If I can't get that money, I'll be too scared of doing something wrong, like not paying the IRS the amount they think they need to be paid.

>>28568135
I tend to agree but I hope I'm wrong.

>>28567143
7 years

>>28567128
>if you're not trying to scam the IRS, do you just pay capital gains on what you get when you cash out?
>>28567340
>I believe "selling" to a stablecoin isn't a taxable event.
>>28567745

Every transaction involving cryptocurrency is a taxable event, because cryptocurrency is considered "property". You must record every swap: USD to BTC, BTC to ETH, ETH to Shitcoin, Shitcoin back to ETH, and ETH to USD might be a possible path one might take theoretically. They would have to report every transaction in this chain as a taxable event and pay the appropriate short or long term capital gains tax for it or other applicable tax. You should be reporting these swaps in the taxable calendar year they occur, not just paying a lump sum at once. If you just cash out and pay a lump sum long term capital gain tax, you will be subject to back taxes from the transactions of your swaps.

>>28568401
But "selling" to a stable coin isn't taxable if there's no change in value, right?
This isn't to say it shouldn't be reported.

>>28567884
I used a CPA even when I was making $30k/yr and it was 100% worth it. Found a bunch of arcane loopholes that saved me hundreds or thousands of dollars a year.

However I have a bunch of weirdass income streams so if you are just a wagie with no side income maybe not worth it.

>>28568401
How the FUCK are you supposed to track that if you are buying and selling shitcoins constantly? Especially on multiple marketplaces?

>>28568401
LMAO

>>28568401
Also, can't you just use capital losses to offset the capital gains? Seems like it would end up being the cash-out lump sum in the end anyways.

>>28568401
Hey how well does tbe IRS pay you out of curiosity? Could I get a job?

>>28568651
That's fair. Maybe saying a certain income threashold might determine the value of a CPA is the wrong way to frame it.
Good point.

>>28566816
Crypto to crypto is a taxable event. Every trade you make is taxable. You don't have to "cash out" to be taxed.

>>28568721
It's the truth though, no matter how fucked it is

These threads are popping up everyday aggressively attempting to scare anons, I can't believe the IRS pays shills to hang out and give tax advice on chinese basketweaving forums.

>Imagine being a burger haha

>>28568924
What if you just own the crypto and you are just holding it and the only transaction. You made was into that coin

>>28568924
>Crypto to crypto is a taxable event.
Taxable by who? Only if you live in burgerland.

>>28568973
Yeah, this is exactly my point.
If the IRS expects me to jump the gun and do something stupid before I'm ready to cash out, they can eat a dick.
The more of these threads I scroll through, the more I don't think I should trust anyone that comes here.
"Be scared, anon!" seems like a waste of my attention.

I'm definitely just going to wait until I have a qualified professional help me figure this all out...

>>28563547
>So you will definitely be fined for it in a few years.
so glad I aint burger desu

>>28568719
It literally only needs to be reported when it hits your bank account. How are you supposed to pay 25% on your gains if you haven’t cashed out? You think they just charge 25% of your gains every year? People would be losing money on the market. Don’t be a retard. But as a fellow retard I would like to know a good way to get around this. I would pay an even higher fee so long as I knew the money wasn’t going to war criminal politicians

>>28568719
>How the FUCK are you supposed to track that if you are buying and selling shitcoins constantly? Especially on multiple marketplaces?
by not being a retard with your money. how much cash do you have splashing around that you cant keep track of it? Yes you can offset it with losses and that works very well for this situation.

>>28568879
There's all sorts of fuckery. Example: You set up Anon Does Bitchwork LLC and employ yourself as the sole employee, and now all of your bitch work side income funnels through a business which has tax advantages XYZ and allows you to write off expenses ABC from your total income.

>>28569079
this whole thread is about americans you retarded yuropoor

>>28562549
fuck you but thx

I've been in crypto for 3 years and have never net gained anything more than like 1k max. This year I got more into crypto and will have to report gains, but last year (and year before) I lied on my taxes with 1k or so in crypto total.

Hope it doesn't fuck me up desu but this year I will report.

>>28569048
no tax til you trade or sell it. if you can hold or use fiat directly to buy coins and just hold, you are good

>>28569104
there is a reason people with wealth create holding companies to manage it. you are right to wait til you have a professional

>>28569048
Then you have no taxable event. Just like buying a stock and never selling.

I still don't see how >>28568924
isn't made irrelevant by capital losses

>>28563098
>Wash coins through renbtc and binance
Yeah the it's isn't tracking shit they can barely answer what 2+2 is. Just don't be like mcaffee and wave it in their face like a complete retard

Boomer detected. Wow they really did a number on you guys didn't they KEK
Not paying shit and they can fuck right off. They don't like? Too bad I'll just take my wealth to another country then

>>28567340
>If you hold for a year and don't earn more than $20k, you don't pay any tax
this is 100% wrong you are in fact a total fucking retard. every single transaction in crypto creates a potential taxable event and all income is supposed to be reported to the IRS but no taxes need to be paid with income under $400 in a year. Pass $400 and you owe taxes fucking moron

>>28569185
Take out a loan against your digital assets, anon.
Michael Saylor talks about this:
You take out a $100 loan against the same amount in BTC, which you put up for collateral, and pay a small interest fee to use the cash.
This way, you don't have to pay income taxes or capitol gains taxes (so long as Saylor is correct).

You should talk to a qualified individual about this though. I doubt you'll find one here that will take you and this place seriously.

>>28563257
>Only if you used cash to monero and then traded with that can you truly escape.

Buying crypto is fine. Use a big exchange to buy BTC, transfer your BTC to a hardware wallet, use that hardware wallet to buy some monero, and then do whatever the hell you want with it. Avoid all KYC exchanges, using a VPN if you have to. I go as far as to have a dedicated computer that is only used to trade altcoins. My normal computer is only used to convert between BTC and USD.

This is some true Chinese great firewall bullshit but that is the world us americans live in now. You will still have to pay taxes on going from BTC -> USD, but that is treated as capital gains so it isn't as bad as paying the bullshit taxes for trading crypto.

>>28569185
that's 100% false retard. enjoy getting ass raped when you audit comes. as remember the IRS will not only audit a single year they will go back up to 5 years once they find a single discrepancy

>>28569390
I'm pretty sure McAfee got poisoned and fled for his life.

>>28569522
Yes, I worded it funny, I understand that.
The idea is that so long as you earn less than $20k capitol gains and hold for a year, the tax rate is 0%, as far as I know.
>something something $400
kek

Here's something curious. Trades were made in 2019 but didn't work at all that year, so no taxes were filed. Mainly losses. Absolutely no trades in 2020, but did work. Earned less than 20k. Still have a position in crypto, held since 2019 on CB pro. If/when I "cash out" in the future, how will the taxes work? Report or amend 2019 filing despite never filing?

>>28569390
>Too bad I'll just take my wealth to another country then
Every country in the world is obligated to report the earnings of any American citizen doing business within their borders under FATCA

>>28569705
>The idea is that so long as you earn less than $20k capitol gains and hold for a year, the tax rate is 0%, as far as I know.
this is 100% wrong you fucking moron. you owe capital gain taxes no matter what. the only thing holding for an extended period of time does is determine whether you are taxed at the short term or long term rate

>>28569811
You should probably hire a professional and avoid asking questions like this in a place where people try to scam you with foodtokens every week.

>>28569522
>Pass $400 and you owe taxes fucking moron
The absolute minimum is $12,400

>>28569845
Correct. The tax rate for the long term hold rate is 0% when you're under $20k, as far as I remember.

>>28569811
Pretty sure it will go on the taxes of the year you withdraw.

>>28569811
just save proof of what you paid for your crypto and report in the year you cash out. however, if you've swapped crypto at all each and every time you do so you are potentially creating a taxable event if you are swapping at a price greater than what you paid. in which case you'd need to report the gains over your original acquisition cost as income and pay taxes on it. should also keep track of any swaps at a loss as that can reduce your tax burden

>>28569843
>He forgot you can expatriate.
Paying the fee to get them to let you leave is probably worth it in this case.

>>28566984
Fucking Americans and their triple-dip taxes. Just use a VPN on Binance (I never had to submit any kind of info to them, kinda based)

>>28569972
Yes. Bingo.
How can they charge me $1000 one year for all the trades I've made when I didn't make any money that year and have $400 in my bank account?
I'm sure a CPA would be able to explain all of this.
I don't think paying attention to the fearmongers here is really worth anyone's time.

>>28569967
no it isn't you are literally a fucking retard. enjoy getting ass raped when you get audited.
>>28569957
kek no you are another fucking moron. I literally interned with the IRS my last two years of undergrad and to this day I'm totally shocked at how stupid in regards to taxes most people in crypto are

Jokes on them, they wanted tax info starting for 2018 so my initial 5k-27k became a -18k writeoff, it only applies 3k per year BUT if you have capital gains higher than it it offsets it all. I pretty much had free trades for three years because of their retardation. I'm not reporting my AAVE loan from 2020 either. Ill just report the jewbase shit

>>28568401
No one actually thinks the irs tracks all this shit do they?
Holy fuck you have never worked for a government agency, those boomers are literally using windows 95 still

>>28568401

They definitely don’t have the capacity to audit crypto at this scale, not yet at least.

>>28568163

this is the new "a kid at my school went to prison for downloading a song on napster"

>>28563098
I only bought, treating it like savings

>>28569610
>>28570096
If you used a credit card, debit card or bank transfer to pay on those exchanges, then you are caught in the trap.
You lose.

>>28562549
This is such a bullshit question. If I bought but did not sell crypto in 2020, I have nothing to report to the IRS. So why do they need to know? They shouldn't even be allowed to ask that.

It might as well ask "do you want to be put on the priority list for IRS audits? y/n".

>>28569185
Opportunity zones. 100% tax free. It's the reason big tech is allegedly sending rioters to destroy property values so they can reinvest their big stonks into buying it up real cheap for 0% taxation after ten years. Do you really think all of the corporations care about black people? It's a joke.

>>28563257
>won't be fined for it say 2-5 years from now when they have even better tracing capabilities.
You mean a couple years after the US government collapses..?

>>28570096
kek the U.S. government is already going after the founders of Binance and very soon it's likely that leads into going after the exchange itself for allowing exactly what you are describing

>>28570128
Oh... I guess you're right.
Looks like it's $40k now.
Thanks, anon!

>>28569843
I guarantee you've never travelled outside of the US bud. You live in an information bubble
Or you are just retard

>>28570128
you apparently learned fucking nothing at your brainlet internship
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409

>>28570050
Expats are still bound by FATCA and no foreign financial institution will allow you to bypass it as their use of the USD would be restricted

>>28570414
>United Sharts giberment doing the needful and going after people outside of the US for please their ZOG overlords
Fucking America. Every. Single. Time.

>>28562549
Last year I answered yes and upon seeing the the follow up questions it made it seem like they assume I made money. I think this question intentionally doesn't include the word "buy". Which is all I've ever done: buy.

>>28570222
Wow nice analogy
>Dude Al capone got caught for tax evasion
Soi.jpeg

>>28570539
That's hilarious.
>FATCA, or the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, was enacted in 2010 by the United States to combat international tax evasion. It calls for foreign financial institutions to disclose to the US foreign accounts held by American taxpayers, and to comply with reporting, withholding, and account disclosure requirements to the US.
>It calls for foreign financial institutions to disclose to the US foreign accounts held by American taxpayers
>disclose to the US foreign accounts held by American taxpayers
>held by American taxpayers
>American taxpayers
That's some awful reading comprehension there, big guy.

>>28570319
>If I bought but did not sell crypto in 2020, I have nothing to report to the IRS.
This is my situation. I'm an iron-handed linkmarine and I've been buying link for years, never swinging. Do I have to report anything? I've literally never made a profit because I've never sold so I can't be taxed right?

>>28569610
If you buy XMR with BTC you bought with KYC, IRS can track that, and since swapping crypto is a taxable event...

>>28570516
again good luck when you get audited for not paying income taxes at the time of sale which is beyond the potential capital gains taxes you will owe

If you don’t have a complete record of every single time you have swapped every shitcoin ever then you are basically going to get fucked by the taxman

>>28566653
>wondering if sending to monero would anonymize someones gains (in minecraft) and allow them pretend they no longer have access to the coin.
Yes. DYOR

i don't really give a shit about paying 30 percent

its not that much. i get to keep 70 percent

>>28568973
It's much easier to hire a couple shills to scare people by making them think you're omnipotent and omniscient than it is to actually have the capacity to track through all this bullshit. The IRS can't do dick about swaps you do on binance with a VPN or on uniswap. They're not going to be doing that chainalysis shit on Joe Blow because he swapped to some shitcoin a couple times.

>>28570491
I work in an asset management firm in Europe and have previously worked in retail banks. FATCA is 100% a requirement and something you will be heavily scrutinised on

>>28570157
metamask doesn't cuck to the IRS so I do not give a fuck. IRS Tongue my anus

>>28568644
Nope. You pay taxes on the difference from when you first bought the coin to when you cashed into the stable coin
Example:
Buy at 1500
Put in stable coin at 2500
You’d be taxed on the $1000 gain based on how long you held the initial coin

>>28570806
Correct. But keep a record of all your buys

>>28570893

don't you have to give binance your address to use it?

>>28570516

upvote

>>28570806
From the sounds of things, your CPA might advise you to file amended forms.
You should be sure to ask about it when you go to see him though.

>>28570861
Or you can hire a CPA and they'll help you avoid what you can.

>>28570894
Again, this is why you expatriate.

>>28568973
I like Tax threads because I can bully Amerikeks for their shit tax laws

>>28570893
as long as you don't get audited sure. the problem arises when you do get audited.

>>28570806
Unfortunately yes. If you say no, it's perjury and they'll use it as an excuse to fuck you in the ass. There's nothing they could do about it right now, of course, since you haven't generated any taxable events, but let's say in 2021 you DO sell, and you list your truthful 2020 buy-in dates. Then they'll look back at your previous year's filing and say "well why didn't you say you bought crypto here???".

The whole thing is a massive catch-22. I don't want to be put on a watch list. I wonder what happens if you just leave the question blank.

>>28570893
Shhh shut this down goyim. Remember to hire one of us to do a "job" anyone with room temperature IQ can figure out.

>>28570491
Americans I work with always freak out about taxes because they have to deal with a load of shit even living abroad

>>28562549

OP you are a fool

>implying I even file my taxes

jokes on you retard

>>28563547
>>28563733
lmao. either hit the gym or quit your fed shill job. you are either low t or work for them or both.

>>28570957
Yes...
But the question is if you're taxed another time when you sell that stablecoin to USD.

>>28569522
>every single transaction in crypto creates a potential taxable event and all income
How is trading considered an income?
If I have something that is valued at 1 USD and use that to get something else of equal value considered a taxable event?
I can see if I sell my BTC and withdraw, otherwise the toy elves take a check from it and I get less than my worth on something else.
Asking because I am retard.

WHY DO THEY MAKE IT SO COMPLICATED BROS? COINBASE WON'T EVEN GIVE ME THE PRICES I BOUGHT AND SOLD AT.

>>28566984
>we're gonna get you goyim!

>>28562549
Hey how the fuck do I pay capital gains on falsely minted crypto? Asking for a friend.

>>28571007
The chance of actually getting audited for that is miniscule.
But for sake of argument, let's say you do get audited. Report truthfully, and then tell them you weren't aware that crypto-to-crypto was taxable, that you're sorry, and then you'll pay the fine/interest or whatever. But the chances of that happening are basically nil, and it's not the end of the world if it does happen. So overall still worth it to just sweep it under the rug.

>>28570894
Hey boomer
I don't give a fuck about archaic banking laws because
I don't need a bank account
Seethe boomer seethe
>>28570906
Exactly they aren't going to do shit it will be 10 years before it's knows how to search a block explorer
Only idiots work at irs because they have tiny funding

>believe its your consititutional right to not criminally implicate yourself in a crime
>IRS
pick one

>>28566864
just do the best you can on your report to be as honest as you would like and if you owe later just pay it. make an effort to let them steal some and you won't find trouble that isn't too much to manage.

>>28570992
TAXATION IS FREEDOM EUROPOOR

>>28568401
no

>>28571166

it's not actually considered income, this is just a placeholder rule they've implemented to scare the goyim away from crypto. there's no way they can actually verify the monetary gains from crypto-crypto trades. the idea doesn't even make sense. just report your long term gains when you cash out. the only thing they care about is when you pull your jew bucks from coinbase.

>>28571260
Even if they theoretically did track on-chain transfers, there's no proof that any given wallet is "yours". Just because I sent money to a wallet doesn't mean that's my wallet.

Hell, just look at how Mnuchin was trying to impose a KYC laws on crypto exchanges where the exchange would need you to show you own a wallet before they send it out. They wouldn't be trying to do retarded shit like that if this wasn't an issue for them.

80% of the problems here are caused by mutts using Cuckbase and their KYC.

>>28562549
Can't tax me if I don't sell.

>>28562700
To rebuild your city if it upsets you so much

Not only did I claim I never bought any crypto this year, I also claimed I didn't get my stimulus checks. I am now going to get them again with my tax rebate.

>>28565488
>If anyone can see your address holdings what’s stopping us from doing that too?
Lmao, read your court cases dude. This shit has alright be turn to Swiss cheese. No such thing as the 4th amendment. Lmao

>>28571421
Even cuckbase doesn't report your shit unless you trade/sell >$20k on their platform. If you simply buy and move to a private wallet, they don't send a 1099-K or anything else to the IRS.

>>28570753

>makes law
>nothing, absolutely nothing changes

>>28570968
If you used Binance prior to them locking US customers out there's literally no trace of you left on that exchange.

Tip for everyone in this thread, become familiar with the concept of "good faith best effort." Draw up an Excel sheet, match it up with USD equivalent values with matching trade dates and have something to fall back on if you get asked to come in and meet a friendly agent at your local field office. Make their job easy and have something to show them explaining that number you put down.

>>28571125
It’s reportable but as you made zero gains since it’s a stable coin, you pay no taxes on it.

Is there honestly any other country in the world where the responsibility of tax calculation falls upon the citizens? The same citizens that get fined ridiculous amounts and get their houses taken if they accidentally fuck it up?
America is a fucking joke lmfao.

>>28570753
You are still obligated to complete a US tax return even if you are an expat and derive 100% of your income from overseas. Capital gains are not covered by Foreign Earned Income Exclusion

https://bambridgeaccountants.com/us-expats-tax-guide

>>28571483
>nooooo!!! I have no way of tracking that stuff though!! Bad goy bad goy!!! Where are my jew gibs! You took the risk and i need the profit

>>28570968
Nope. You can give 100% bogus info and so long as you're using a VPN to log in, you're good to go. Of course there's a 2 BTC withdraw limit, but whatever. 2 BTC is quite a lot now, after all.

>>28571383
This. If u want to pay and be a good fit just have some old buys on goybase and when you cash out to usd u can declare long term cap gains only 20%
I highly doubt they will go after a guy doing that .

>>28571626
>global zog

To every burger in this, if you want this to change, contact your congressman and explain why crypto swaps need to be treated as in-kind transfers, just like real estate

>>28571587
We're a conquered people. The jews have established a level of totalitarian control that exceeds the USSR.

>>28562549
No I did not, New York State does not accept the idea that what i am trading is "currency" without it being licensed by the state.

>>28571694
Another important note is that, because they decide to consider crypto as "property" the IRS form you use to show your buys/sells makes it really easy to fudge numbers.

For example, if you look at the form, there's nowhere where it actually says you need to list exact quantities of a coin, because it was never meant for currency in the first place. You just say "I bought something called efferiums for 10k on this date and sold efferiums for 100k on this date". You don't need to specify how much eth was bought/sold or what the market value per eth token was. It's actually fucking hilarious, but this is what they get for trying to jew us over by counting crypto as "property" akin to selling real estate or charizard pokemon cards, rather than using the same rules as forex trading.

>>28571453
Yes they can lol
>>28571409
Transferring property is a taxable event

>>28571796
Letters don't do shit just stay quiet about it all and hopefully they take longer to try and sink their teeth in it

>>28571966
>Yes they can lol
Unrealized gains aren't taxable.

>>28571587
America is a joke. The entire population are slaves to ZOG and Israel. At first I thought it wasn't true - but then I read more and learned about their tax laws and I realised it's true

>>28571966
I transferred the property for zero dollars, fuck off.

>>28571796
>he thinks congressmen are beholden to their constituents rather than wealthy jews who hate that goyim are escaping wageslavery via crypto

>>28572012
Why do you use that image? Its such a comfy image. Used to take that the route to the PA turnpike when I was driving from MD to Pittsburgh.

>>28572015
This is illegal. The "one dollar loophole" to avoid sales tax will get the IRS on you.

>>28571796
What a fool you are. How could you be so naive? Do you honestly think contacting your congressman's office does shit? Unless you're a wealthy jewish banker willing to pay the congressman a million dollars as a "speaking fee" at some bullshit event, you won't get the time of day.

>>28572012
Good. Stay out.

>>28571957
It's quite clear they are a long ways away from having a grasp on how to get crypto people to pay taxes
I think the best option is to just keep quiet about it all so crypto users not paying taxes doesn't become a meme which would force them to take some BS action
Regulators are reactionary they don't do shit unless an event occurs that forces them to

>>28567174
>I'm pretty sure the laws are if you earn less than $20k and make under like one thousand trades in a calendar year, they don't aren't legally compelled to report anything about holdings.
can you provide a source, please? i would appreciate it

>>28571957

just think about the idea that some finkelstein in an ivory tower is taking my money because i traded dogecoin for bitcoin on a decentralized exchange after elon musk tweeted doge. it truly is clown world.

>>28572155
I'm sitting comfy & based in the UK (white man's land) and you're in the United States of ZOGmerica pulling your hair out to pay tour goyim tax. Sucks to be you
>>28572104
>The American idea of 'comfy' is food and name brands + using oil

>>28572181
You can check out coinbase's website. They tell you the exact parameters on whether or not they'll send a 1099-K to the IRS. It's if you sell >20k or make more than a certain amount of trades per year. Also, if you got a 1099-K emailed to you, then that means one was sent to the IRS too, simple as.

>>28572131
Nothing is going to happen in the first place so your point is moot. Tax on trades done in a non-KYC'd manner are unenforceable. So long as the IRS gets their cut of the capital gains on the outgoing fiat withdraws, they won't give a shit anyway.

>>28572136
Sunder and Keening straight to every IRS pig’s heart

>>28572365
It's also funny that the IRS form for listing capital gains on property don't even make you need to specify exactly what it is you're selling.

It literally just asks for a description of the property. All you write is "dogecoin". You don't need to specify that it's a "virtual currency" or anything. You don't need to specify what blockchain or ERC20 address you're exactly referring to. Efferiyums, buttcorn, dogecoin, whatever. That's all you need to write. It's so fucking stupid.

Americans in crypto are fucked honesty
It was bad enough under Republicans but the Democrats are allergic to people making money
Your only hope is for Chairman Yang to become duke of New York and make it a crypto free-for-all zone

>>28572405
>white man's land
Kek, sure thing buddy

>>28572490
That's true for most government bodies around the globe. Lick their arses from crack to crevice and they'll go easy on you

I just traded internet memes on 4chan.... a lot

Just hold until you have enough to actually hire someone to do it for you

>>28572560

how is it handled in the case of capital gains then?

>>28572589
Yang Gang was our best hope, but the MIGApede retards were so triggered at our mocking of Zion Don that they raided our threads.

>>28570258
This. 0 tax. None.

>>28572432
but arent you supposed to report every virtual currency on form 8949?

>>28562549
I dont own any "virtual currency"

I own crypto

>>28572589
The silver lining there is that any laws passed for tax hikes and the like won't be able to go into effect until the following tax year, 2022. So assuming the bull run ends in 2021, you'll at least still have the more lenient tax rate before Biden hikes it up to 50% + tip.

>>28572702
Like I said, all you do is write what it is you bought/sold (ie, dogecoin). You write in how much you bought it for, and how much you sold it for. That's it.
example:
>bought two thousand dollarydoos worth of dogecoin on january 17th
>sold fifty thousand dollarydoos worth of dogecoin on february 6th
And then you do the calculation for the tax percentage on your gains like anything else. That's really all you need to show.

>>28562549
It’s a good thing bitcoin is a store of value not currency :^)

>>28572835
>IRS considers crypto to be property rather than currency
>"do you own any virtual currency?"
>if you say no, based on their own internal definition of what counts as currency, you get charged with perjury

>>28571796
LMFAO. I emailed my congresswoman during the election to ask why/how there were people showing up in the Michigan voting records who were born in the 19th century. Never even got a response. Imagine believing our rulers see us as anything more than dumb, docile, obedient subjects from whom they extract wealth and power. Living in a worldwide info-dictatorship kinda sucks sometimes.

>>28572916

that's interesting, i was worried because actually retrieving the information on specific purchases on coinbase pro is a nightmare, but i have kept track of my total cost basis, and i don't think it should be scrutinized heavily if like 80%+ of the sale price is reported as gains.

>>28572405
>UK (white man's land)
Anon... you don't... you don't actually believe this, do you...?

>>28567327
just dropped another 1k into GRT because of this

>>28573076
>Imagine believing our rulers see us as anything more than dumb, docile, obedient subjects from whom they extract wealth and power. Living in a worldwide info-dictatorship kinda sucks sometimes
Whoah hold on anon. At least we're not speaking German.

>>28562549

>>28563743
IRS has an 80% litigation success rate

>>28571232
This. You'll just have to amend your previous returns and pay what you owe.

Here you go bros

>>28570957
if you buy and sell a coin at $100 profit, then buy and sell a coin at $100 loss, do you still pay taxes on the profit if its the same year?

>>28575903

You pay 50% at the one with a gain & 200% at the one with the loss because you're retarded

>>28567327
buying more grt just to fuck on the mutts.

>>28575707
that looks very modern for an island

>>28571458
Have to imprison, kill, or drive out the ones destroying it or it's a waste of time to rebuild
>Pic related (Is actually south africa but same concept)

>>28566653
If you send it to an exchange in China for example won’t they mix your coins? Can’t you cash out to a hardware wallet from there or just insert miners swap in between how the fuck is that traceable somebody asked in a post earlier

>>28576887
South Africa has a huge problems where mobs of them take over a building and have to be removed by force.
The native black people call those other people "ghouls". They got that name because they act and eyes look soulless and if more than 2 approach a whole mob is right behind ready to chase and attack you for your things. This is documented and a real thing.

How do I find a crypto knowledgeable CPA guys?

Google is shit

>>28573050
Lol

>>28562549
i mean they tell me its property and then ask me this shit ARE YOU KIDDIN ME? im happy to be a degenerate but like can't the bank just take that shit out for me?

What if I buy crypto for the actual project and need the tokens for utility reasons. They just happened to go up in price

How bout this scenario:

You swap $200 eth to a shitcoin, it 10x to $2,000 then swapped it back to ETH.

You take $2000 eth to another shitcoin, then 10x again to $20,000, then swap it back to ETH.

Finally, you do the same again, and end up with $200,000 worth of ETH in the end.

Basically it went from $200 to $200,000. And you decided to hold on that for a year and cashed out right? That's only one taxable event right? At maybe 20-30% of $199,800, right?

>>28562549
I claimed $248 capital losses due to trading 'digital assets' on old school RuneScape (btw fuck whoever merched santa hats). I made sure to trade to gp in december since these losses offset my steam trading card gains perfectly.

>>28578176
No, every transfer is a taxable event.

>>28562549
Yes for 2019
No for 2020
Yes for 2021

These are my real answers, and it's going to get me audited, isn't it?

>>28578176
>>28578663
I don't really see how it makes a difference though. Either it's $199,800 in one event or +1800, +18,000,+180,000 = $199,800 total gains.

>>28568651
You are 100% correct. If you just have regular wages, and nothing else, just go to H and R block and let them look up your refund on a chart.
>>28568879
Negative, the threshold would be do you have any income from a business, not wages? Even a business from home that only makes $1k a year will save you thousands in taxes.

>>28578176
>You swap $200 eth to a shitcoin
taxable but likely no gain/loss if you bought the ETH right before the swap
>10x to $2,000 then swapped it back to ETH.
Gain of $1800 taxable
>You take $2000 eth to another shitcoin, then 10x again to $20,000, then swap it back to ETH.
Gain $18000 taxable
>Finally, you do the same again, and end up with $200,000 worth of ETH in the end.
Not taxable until to swap/cash out
So total short term capitals for tax purposes $19,800. The $180000 will be long term gains is cash out after 12 months.

>>28569610
If you buy $100 of BTC on a KYC exchange, then swap it for $100 Monero, the IRS knows you have $100 of Monero on a particular date—and nothing else. So if you don’t report any Monero sales, it’s completely plausible that you’re still holding and haven’t had any taxable events. They’d have no way to know if, for example, you swapped the Monero for NoobCoin, appreciated to $500, then swapped for ShekelToken, appreciated to $100, and so forth. But at some point you’re going to want to cash it out, and you’ll probably need a KYC exchange. They might want to know where your $10,000 cash-out came from.

>>28578663
So since the only time I gain money was from the shitcoin.

I'm only gonna get taxed 30% on my $2000

Then, 30% on my $20,000

And then 30% on my $200,000

If that's the case, then fuck this country. Why would I pay Lashanda and her 6 niglets when I'm the one putting work with the investments? I wish I can pick where my taxes goes since infrastructure and healthcare should be a priority, and not welfare checks for lazy piece of shits.

>>28578864
The 19,800 would be short term gains. The remaining 180000 long term if held >12 months. It’s supposed to be designed to encourage long term investing.

>>28569811
The tax you owe will be calculated based on your situation when you realize the gain or loss by selling. Doesn’t matter at all what your situation was when you bought, or during the years you held.

>>28563098
I'm never selling for at least 30 years until I eventually retire from my job though.

IRS anon here. You are all fucked lol

>>28570157
Amen. Can they track it? Certainly. Will they track it for your little $1- $1,000,000 income? No way. The IRS, like any other organization, has to work with limited resources. They put their resources to work where it will produce the greatest results. The forensic team is working drug deals and multi-millionaire tax cheats, not some chan day trader.

>>28562549

The IRS is going to fucking destroy you fuckers this year. I knew the government would fight at some point.

>>28570822
You don’t have to pay income taxes and capital gains taxes on the same increase in wealth, my dude

>>28578853
if gains/losses small in 2019 and 2021 most likely you wont be. Right now they have enough on their plate with the whole stimulus checks and whatnot.

>>28570992
Tell me about your awesome VAT...

>>28562549
>no job but sold some doge
Do I still have to do this bullshit?

>>28578997
So a transaction has to be individually held for >12mo to not count as a short-term gain. Not so bad given how often you autists flip coins anyways. What if you didn't cash out the final exchange? Do you still owe on the 2,000 + 20,000?

>>28578978
If all of those gains were short-term it would be the same either way. 0.3x(2,000 + 20,000 + 200,000) is the same as 30% on each.

>>28579337
I don't get why that pic says it's retarded, when that mini school bus is absolutely comfy and based. I'd totally buy that bad boy.

>>>paying taxes on crypto

Lol

Literally just take out a loan on it

I claimed the $300k in losses I had from trading for monero and losing my wallet password. What an utter travesty, I'm financially ruined :^)

>>28570740
Al Capone was only caught because it was blatantly obvious that someone like him wouldn't ever pay taxes and they needed to catch him doing something illegal

Wtf i still dont get how swaps can be taxed. If I swap $1000 of LINK for $1000 of ETH ive made no gains so wtf are they taxing ?

>>28570222
Hahaha I was actually billed for downloading some music albums back in 2013, they wanted like 50$ for each album I torrented, the letters were really threatening and looked official. I threw those bitches in the trash and have gotten nothing since, feel bad for the cucks that get scared though and do pay.

>another episode of poorfags bragging about tax evasion
us big boys actually want to put properties and cars under our names, this tax reporting stuff only applies to us.

>>28579897
>putting property and cars under your name
>not having all of your assets owned by an offshore LLC that you are the sole trustee of
The real poorfag here is (You). I have never had a single penny in cash, credit, or assets under my own name.

>paying taxes to a government actively engaged in white genocide
Nah.

>>28562549
I lost my private key and stumbled upon an unknown amount of XMR. Whoops, sorry taxman :^)

>>28563257
no one is buying monero kill yourself

>>28579824
I think it's only if the swap only earned gains. I don't think IRS is retarded enough to tax someone who decided to swap his coins back and forth 100x for autistic fun. Then, again the IRS is full of retards and autists, and don't have common sense.

If I send cyrpto to my brother in singapore as a """gift""" and he sells it tax free and sends it back to me as a """gift""" is that tax evasion?

>>28579824
oh really... how much was the Link when you first bought it?

How a about this, fuck them

>>28580025
eh capital gains is like 8% i really cant be bothered

>>28580025
and im just talking about reporting the source of your money versus completely hiding it

>>28579337

yeah, that guy is the biggest dumbass in this thread.

>>28579824
it's because the link you're using to swap wasn't $30+ when you bought them. You're taxed on the capital gains so if you bought 100 link at $1, and exchange when it is $30 you would pay taxes on $2900 unless of course you've held for a year then you have some small window of 0% taxes that goes off of total income provided you're american

>>28579824
Swaps are taxed at your cost basis. So if you bought $500 of LINK and it appreciates to $1000, when you then swap for $1000 in ETH you'd owe taxes on the $500 gain. It's dumb because you can be taxed in fiat before gains are ever realized in fiat. But don't expect the IRS to ever fix their retarded rules.

Everyone paying tax this year is a dumbass they are busy right now dealing with covid bullshit, nobody is investigating virgins who live with their parents, maybe next year

im just gonna pay my taxes legit but i have no idea how. my gains only came from stocks and now every stock im long holding until i get afraid of a crash. im just holding my crypto literally..forever and just using staking rewards

>>28580724
If YOU bought LINK you have to pay taxes. If the offshore LLC you happen to be the trustee of buys LINK and it appreciates to $1000 you don't have to pay any taxes because you didn't make any money. Then the LLC pays you a salary which you pay taxes on and you use that money for necessary spending.

>>28568719
Exchanges can output a csv of all your transactions. You can then upload those csvs to a website like cryptotrader.tax.

>>28580724
doesn't matter at all the end result is the same tax if you exchange coins back and forth before eventually cashing out to fiat vs selling coins for fiat and then buying what you would exchange for

I never sold, weak hands pay taxes

what if I bought crypto but didnt sell anything

>>28580498
Depending on your income, and it can be lower or higher.

>>28571767
>McMushroom
yes

>>28563547
Probably a fat fuck of a fed too, browsing image boards.

>>28581469
The retarded fat fucks at the FBI want you to illegally evade taxes so they can buttfuck you instead of legally avoiding paying any taxes so you can buttfuck them.

>>28562549
>Yessir I acquired it, and lost every single penny no my sole attempt to cash it out by withdrawing all of it to a faulty address.

>>28562549
from coinbase
>There’s a lot of conflicting content out there, but make no mistake: you are required to report gains and losses on each transaction or when you earn cryptocurrency, even if the gain or loss is not material. The IRS holds you responsible for reporting all income and transactions whether you receive a tax form from a crypto exchange or not. Exchanges like Coinbase make transaction history available for this purpose.
holy fuck, the absolute state of americans

>>28562700
why would you be dumb enough to live in a city lmao

>>28569242
And by this year I mean 2022. Worried about lying a couple of times about not being in crypto when I use KYC but I'm small potatoes

>>28571957
WAIT A FUCKING SECOND... I have read hundreds of threads about this and it finally clicked. They aren’t factoring actual market value into this anywhere are they?

Let me explain... for newfags, back in 2017ish for example you had to buy shitcoins on places like EtherDelta where the spread was super high sometimes like 50% ever between ask and bid.

So if I understand this correctly, the IRS treats crypto like a Pokémon card, where the market value is arbitrary. They literally treat it like real estate more than stocks??

>>28580051
Based

>>28562763
So fucking based god damn

I don’t know what the fuck a virtual currency is. I thought these were game tokens

>>28582392
I like how you posted exactly what the guy you replied to said, but in a preposterously more convoluted way.
absolute moron

>>28562549
Is it worth saying yes if I made ~20k in crypto but lost like 30K in bad trades, scams and eth fees and only cashed out like 8k or so?

I tried using an API to calculate my gains and it says that I made $1M+ so I have no idea what the IRS will be receiving this year.

>>28562549
The reason why this is the first question is because the biggest tactic they employ to make sure the goy pays is scare tactic.
This is the first question because they know their tracking is shit atm and making this a big deal makes sure the scared goy pays.

>>28583792
This is my dilemma desu. I made like a couple thousand, so my taxes would only be a couple hundred higher. I marked yes on the form because I’m not going to jail for perjury, but ever piece of software I’ve used to track my gains is completely wrong. Some say I made like $50000, others say I lost $140000, when in reality I put in like $5k and made measly gains. I didn’t report anything because I honestly don’t fucking know what to put in there.

>>28574606
That's because they target cases where the legal defense is appx the same or more than settling

>>28570893
It’s true, case in point
>>28563098
>>28563257
>>28563369
>>28563547
>>28563733

God I fucking hate what this country has become.
Any US guys on here who made money last cycle? Did you really have to give your money away to our nigger gibs machine?

Do you retards actually think the IRS will track all your trades or something
Just say that you bought a random shitcoin and sold after it mooned.

>>28570874
>DYOR
Where do I find this coin, I searched DYOR in kraken and Coinbase and couldn’t find it

>>28580289
you'll be buying my bags soon enough faggot

If you move your crypto to a hardware wallet and then just use uniswap through metamask for swinging into stable coins, how are they going to track that? until I move my crypto into a kyc exchange and trade for pre war monies, I ain’t reporting shit

>>28584888
What if you buy gold or silver with crypto, and cash it out at a coin shop when you need money?

>>28584682
kek'd

This is so ironic. Everybody said crypto is the new cash and totally anonymous yet all of you are facing major difficulties trying to evade taxation. It's ridiculous. Crypto is the NWO money because every transaction is forever traceable in the block chain. They now know every trade you ever did.

>>28562549
They added that to easily catch people lying, if you lie there they will fuck you.
Never lie to the taxman.

>>28584888
They see the move
They also can track defi transactions. If you google defi monitoring tool there are literally ones that give live tax estimates.

I'd be more careful faggots.

>>28586034
>IRS is tracking billions of Defi transactions per day

They can't even keep their computers up to date

This thread proves nothing more that everybody should talk to a tax lawyer because you all sound kind of stupid.

>>28565488
>>the 4th amendement
you don't follow current events, do you?

I like to see these threads every now and then and laugh at the seething burgers within

>>28586457
imagine laughing at dumb burgers when your kike government run by women taxes you 70% out the door Klaus. Yeah, us dumb burgers.

>>28563455

if i started cryto in this month i dont have to file until 21 taxes right?