/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>29070249
I'm pretty sure all the suns in the universe will burn out providing energy to bitcoin transactions before it reaches infinity

>>29070249
Idiot. Bitcoin is infinitely divisible meaning the entire world's economy could theoretically fit in a single Satoshi.

>>29070249
when usd collapses like the zimbabwean dollar then it will happen.

>>29070249

There will be a new class of people. The new non-working class. As nocoiners scrape about and fight over their single satoshi, the one coin that has been delegated to fuel the world economy, the hodler class lives off of their bitcoin savings. Freedom of speech has been cancelled and the hodler class has outlawed any discussion about the word "bitcoin" which carries a death sentence to maintain the system.

>>29070249
when it becomes the primary unit of account then the price wont fluctuate much anymore

>>29070249
based retard

>>29070905
>>29070667
Not infinitely divisible, the price will normalize when 1 sat ~ 1 cent

So basically when BTC x1000 or x10000 from now

>>29070249
No. There are diminishing returns. This is a necessary effect and we are currently observing it with the logarithmic growth curve.
>but
Has to happen because the higher the market cap gets, the harder it gets to source additional capital. Think of this way. 10x when the market cap was $1MM was easy because finding an additional $9MM of capital is really not insanely difficult. 10x when the market cap is $1Tn requires the sourcing of $9Tn of additional capital. And 10x from there requires $90Tn additional capital. This is the same effect that causes six figure hell.

Also
>then couldn't it approach infinity as time approaches infinity?
Possibly but only if the currency it is denominated in continues to get weaker forever.
What's really going to happen is it's going to find a value that represents the total addressable market and will oscillate about that value for the foreseeable, much like gold, and even like stocks which (generally) bounce between 10x and 20x price to earnings. Only in individual issues that have not yet addressed their total market do we see lasting deviations from this

>>29071166
YES IT IS INFINITELY DIVISIBLE BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING SOMEONE FROM MAKING A 2ND LAYER PROTOCOL THAT DIVIDES IT FURTHER OR A SOFT FORK WITH FURTHER DIVISIONS

>>29071201
>10x when the market cap was $1MM was easy because finding an additional $9MM of capital is really not insanely difficult. 10x when the market cap is $1Tn requires the sourcing of $9Tn of additional capital. And 10x from there requires $90Tn additional capital.

But that's not really how it works at all. If everyone were to pull their sell orders and someone spent a penny on $1M BTC, the market cap would rise 20x instantaneously.

>>29070249
No, because infinity has no price. Meaning that BTC will always cost what the richest of the rich are willing to pay (a few cycles from now).

>>29071437
Dont be niglet. BTC has been designed so changes in the protocol are exceptionally hard to be made. Even if there is a 2nd layer BTC will always be BTC, and it cannot go lower than 1 sat.

>>29070905
>primary unit of account
with horrendous fees and low tx per sec. nope.

also public ledger. it's like you want gov to see everything you do.

>If Bitcoin increases in price over time, does that mean that one day it will be worth infinity?

>>29070249
on an exponential curve, the values of both x and y tend towards infinity but never reach it. use yer noggin.

>>29070249
holy mother fucking shit anon

>>29071591
WRONG. IF THERE COMES A DAY WHEN THE BASE LAYER DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH LIQUIDITY TO FUNCTION THERE WILL BE A FINANCIAL INCENTIVE FOR NODES TO UPGRADE TO A MORE DIVISIBLE SOFT FORK

>>29071437
There is nothing stopping anyone from making a second facebook or twitter or youtube. And there are many such examples. But just like those competitors the forks of bitcoin have not supplanted it because 1. This is a technology that is heavily exposed to the network effect 2. We all recognize them as imitations of the original.
>>29071564
>implying your scenario ever works in financial markets
Sure that could happen and there'd be $.01 of volume at $1MM per. And it would mean nothing

>>29071607
It's just a settlement layer. You can still trade your shitcoin, chinacoin, fedcoin, or whatever, but it will be denominated by a relationship to btc, which is infrequently traded with directly. Like cash being valued based off gold in vaults.

>>29071725
Never go full retard anon

>>29071769
>Sure that could happen and there'd be $.01 of volume at $1MM per. And it would mean nothing

It's just an extreme example to illustrate the point. If a lot of people suddenly decided they didn't want to sell and pulled their crypto off exchanges, then it will take a lot less than 10x market cap to 10x the market cap, because the order books will be thin.

>>29071591
I thought this would only require a soft-fork. Or can be done client-side.

>>29071869
>>29071591
>Even if there is a 2nd layer BTC will always be BTC, and it cannot go lower than 1 sat.

Ya that's definitely not true... it's literally changing 1 character in 1 variable to make it more divisible. Could be done easily and it's not very controversial either.

>>29072012
In the real world we have a liquid market containing buyers and sellers along many different price levels. If you want the price to be higher, attract more buyers. To have ever more buyers at higher and higher price levels without an offsetting amount of sellers we must see an inflow of capital to this asset. Equal inflows have less impact as the total market size increases. Sure you could print a high price on anemic volume. But this still means nothing because there is no actual volume at those higher price levels. It wouldn't happen anyways, this situation in which there are zero sellers in the market.

>>29072269
> What is BCH
You do realize that changing the block size is also changing just one value of one single variable right?

>>29072369
The BTC/BCH debate was about a significant change in functionality. Added more decimal places doesn't affect anyone significantly and wouldn't be controversial.

>>29072698
PRECISELY

>>29070249
Price is a function of supply and demand, not some magical number that's going to keep going up until no one can buy it anymore. Take an econ 101 class before you post again.

>>29072698
All in all this means that every UNIT and every SUB-UNIT of Bitcoin is divisible infinitely and therefore since new capital goods and services are constantly being introduced into the economy in line with the growth of GDP, the BUYING POWER of each Satoshi will increase INDEFINITELY with time.

>>29073433
>since new capital goods and services are constantly being introduced into the economy in line with the growth of GDP, the BUYING POWER of each Satoshi will increase INDEFINITELY with time.
as long as there is still demand for btc*

>>29073570
Demand for BTC is then a question of convenience of the asset.
Let's say right now that the world does not have Bitcoin.
How convenient would it be for people to store their wealth?
>Savings bank account?
The fiat money supply is being printed into oblivion. Hence the VALUE of your savings if you hold it purely in cash is DRAINING with time.
>This encourages people to DIVERSIFY into other forms of investments vehicles IN AN ATTEMPT to PRESERVE their wealth from inflation.
SUCH AS:
>Stocks - backed by physical products produced by a physical company
>Real Estate - physical land / houses/ apartments
>Gold - Physical precious metals that are HEAVY AND INCONVENIENT to transport due to its NON-ZERO MASS.

Bitcoin has SOLVED all of these issues by being an IDEAL Store of VALUE. It is a battery that does not drain it's energy, which is the base unit of value.

>>29074281
It is an IDEAL store of value, BECAUSE it is NON-PHYSICAL. It has NO MASS.
People can send wealth AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT. This is why Bitcoin is best described as a Financial Singularity. A black hole. An object that can be infinitely divided, hence able to store an INFINITE amount of VALUE, AND HAVE ZERO VOLUME.

>>29074450
I believe that this is the reason why Bitcoin is capable of swallowing all the wealth in the world

>>29074450
you forgot it's cheap to secure it and it's borderless.

>>29070249
>burger education

>>29074281
also you can dilute stocks and bonds to infinity gold is not rare at all real estate is illiquid and immobile and barely outperforms inflation.

>>29074624
I'm maxi, but there's always the thought in my mind that it could be replaced somehow in the long term.

>>29074783
Precisely, these are all NON-IDEAL forms of Stores of Value. They are all TRYING to be Bitcoin, but are never going to get there, purely because they are physical / tangible. This is also the reason why a Gold Standard economy would never work, because Gold CANNOT be INFINITELY DIVIDED. Hence there will come a point when there is not enough LIQUIDITY for normal economic functioning.

>>29070249
Bitcoin has a value whereas fiat does not, you got it backwards man.

>>29075048
Well this goes back to the Network Effect. Since Bitcoin has established itself as the winner of the blockchain and cryptocurrency sphere, it will become harder and harder to knock Bitcoin from first place, SIMPLY due to the INERTIA of the MASS of People participating within that Network.

>>29071591
You can aggregate payments in 2nd layer until they fit in a single sat so yeah thats why its called 2nd layer you newfag atheist dogfucker

>>29075208
I love you

>>29071437
>>29071725
I usually dont like agreeing with allcaps, but here we are.

anon has deepknowledge.

>>29071591
Satoshi even said you could add more zeroes on the end

>>29070249
It's only valuable when there is power and electricity. Once that goes out then bitcoin and cash will be worthless. Physical hard assets are the actual valuable items. Trading and bartering is king.

>>29070249
It's a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn't buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their bitcoin will continue its 30% monthly price increase.

Nocoiners, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 satoshi in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas.

This asset bubble is different than all of the others - it will never slow down, or pop. The gains are permanent.

>>29070249
When Bitcoin swallows the $9 trillion market cap of Gold, each bitcoin will be worth $500k. I think It's inevitable.

>>29076099
I love you too Brother. No homo

>>29076201
this , but unironically

>>29070249
look up logistic curve

>>29070249
The last Bitcoin won't be mined until 2140, by which point we will all be long dead. The price should continue to climb until then, since there is a profit incentive to mine it. After that, it will probably be like gold where the price fluctuates every decade or so.

>>29075208
>a Gold Standard economy would never work, because Gold CANNOT be INFINITELY DIVIDED
Well that's what silver was for. I agree that we can never return to a gold standard, primarily because gold already failed and proved that it was not strong enough to win the war against fiat currency and the money power. Bitcoin is the new contender. We need to get behind it and destroy central banks.

>>29076544
Silver can't be INFINITELY divided either. No PHYSICAL asset / commodity / stock can be infinitely divided, hence they all have a LIMITED CAPACITY to STORE VALUE

>>29076544
we definitely can return to a gold standard once we go mainstream with space mining. The future of gold is for the markets to be flooded to the point of gold being so common that peter spliff will capitulate in his casket of solid gold, wishing he instead opted for a casket of usb wallets superglued together.

>>29070905
Why would anyone hold it then? Wouldn't they sell it to invest in something with a better return, thus driving down the price?

>>29077827
Maybe, but you could also just borrow against it and spend without giving up your stake. It would be like a savings account but better.

Long before it reaches "infinity" it would have absorbed the entire global financial system, which is finite. At that point, picrelated.

>>29078215
But why maintain the stake? What would keep money coming into bitcoin? 99% of investors are in it because they expect big gains. If it becomes like bond yields, how is the price supported?

Only in relation to fiat. But btc will just get fucking banned eventually

>>29079114
What's the point of banning btc? It will just be replaced by another crypto

>>29070249
fucking idiot

God I regret not having bitcoin so hard. Look at this valuation. Enough is enough... But coinbase doesnt eve lrt me buy it in my country...

>>29079040
I'd guess the same way as any other high value and scarce asset, like prime property or art.
>>29079114
too late, mr tesla outkiked them and now bitcoin will bring everything down with it if it isn't given a fair treatment

>>29079391
They're not going to let people continue to undermine the fiat beast by going to crypto. They've suppressed gold and silver for years too.

>>29070249
>he doesn't know basic mathematical concepts from pre-calc

What does it feel like to be mentally deficient?

>>29080176
I never took pre calc

>>29070249
Bros... I ran the numbers and he's not wrong. Sold half my stack thinking of puling out entirely

>>29070249
It will collapse in on itself eventually and be worth base value. If you have 1 Bitcoin now. After the crash, you can now spend your one Bitcoin on a McDonald’s happy meal. Anyone smart will cash out eventually at its absolute peak. If you don’t cash out when everyone else does you will lose everything. This event will be catastrophic and collapse multiple economies. Cash out before it happens, and buy yourself some land. Things will get ugly.

>>29070353
based, bitcoin will only die when we reach universal heat death

I've held 0.08 BTC I got from 2 simple graphic design jobs since 2014 when it was worth almost nothing. Yeah, I regret not getting more BTC back then. I was lazy to.
But now looking at it reaching 50k I have a dilemma to
-invest hard earned cash in it now before it skyrockets even further
-simply wait for a dip which seems unlikely to happen nowadays
-keep my current "gift" BTC and invest into Ether/Cardano/Monero.

wwyd?

>>29080942
Just spend a fair share and buy more. No need to throw your life savings away. You’re gonna make money regardless.

>>29080942
Forget the shitcoins. But your money into BTC like there's no tomorrow. Because there will be no second chance after this bull run is over and done with.

>>29080942
bro we're still basically on the tesla pump. that won't be the last company on the planet to buy bitcoin lol. buy in before the next big pump.

>>29070249
the dollar can be printed to infinity does this mean the dollar will be worth more 100 years from now?

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>>29081266
>>29080942
that said do some research into shitcoins. it's a fun time to be in them, but btc has the least fuzzy future.

>>29081266
I think a lot of institutions are waiting for a dip. Picycle is about to take a tumble.

https://www.lookintobitcoin.com/charts/pi-cycle-top-indicator/

>>29080584
When the day comes that you realize people dont want your dirty dirty fiat youll start getting real fucking scared.

>>29071166
1 satoshi = 1 cent is $1M USD/BTC, so 20x at most

>>29081482

Some kind of fiat will still be needed because you won't be able to buy mirelit pizza for BTC, as for the 7 TPS limitation. This is a serious issue with Bitcoin, but if we look at it as a gold-replacement, then it seems to be a different story.

>>29070775
with so much debt and a democrat government that like to keep spending, Usd will be collapsing very fast.

>>29081954
Btc isnt the only crypto you fucking dumb nigger. Kys.

>>29070249
shut the fuck up faggot, your post is retarded, Sell your btcand buy LINK

>>29070249
>does that mean that one day it will be worth infinity
>bitcoin worth infinity

>bitcoin is worth all of the assets of everything ever combined
>bitcoin is worth all of the assets of all bitcoins ever combined
>everyone of those bitcoins is worth all of everything ever
>the value of bitcoin isn't even computable
>centuries of humans live and die, asking the ultimate question
>"what is the true value of bitcoin?"

>>29070249
Bitcoin is a smoke and mirror show for asset holders across the globe. Countries will eventually claim trillions of extra dollars in GDP because of crypto trading. Failing companies and banks will hold crypto assets in order to claim profits when they’re actually in the red. People will have portfolios full of fairy digits which they’re allowed to borrow hard assets against.... this charade is too good for toon many people to allow it to fail.

GDP used to be a function of spending money for goods and services. The money never left our economy. If I built a machine from raw materials and sold it for $20,000, that’s +$20,000 in asset wealth/GDP added to our economy. I can spend that $20,000 on more materials to build more machines and sell them for the same... maybe even refining the process to sell higher volume at a lower price point. Creating significant GDP increases for a country takes either a high level of skill, a brilliant idea or a significant investment of time.

Crypto has changed this. $1T has been created out of thin air in the form of Bitcoin. It’s a Ponzi scheme, only it never has to end. The US government printed billions of dollars this year and gave them to NEETs. Those underachievers made small fortunes off of their welfare bucks and are now propping up the economy even further by buying shit..... they won’t let this fail. This ride is far from over.

>>29081593
100M