/biz/ - Business & Finance

5) There's a completely artificial (and unnecessary) "risk=reward" association created by the protocol.
>b-but indexers have a hard job! They sometimes need to raise their fees to pay for their infrasctucture!
Any indexer who can't appropriately gauge their expenses and income SHOULD GO BROKE. It's the same arguments for "too big to fail", building a system around inefficient markets rather than actual market demands.
>sure, but if risk != reward, won't all indexers just approach the same fee rate? How will I make more money?
There are small changes to the protocol that can be made (mandatory cooldown, tying cooldown to effective cut, removing/lowering undelegation freeze/fees) that can still allow for risk=reward, and not crash the environment at all. But the (((Governance Council))) won't comment on literally any of it since "it's still being researched."
Three months, for an OBVIOUS issue that can be EASILY fixed. That should scare you.


Anyways there's a lot more but the system is so horribly fucking skewed in favor of the indexers it's hard not to believe that it's just "The 1% fucking over the people who run the system" all over again.

Refute this, I fucking dare you.

shut up and roll lol

>>29804305
I'm scared

>>29804305
>>29804322
I'm not holding GRT and some of what you mention is part of why I'm not holding it, but just in total objectivity, people forget what a new project it still is. The ICO was what? 6 months ago or something? Give or take? So yeah it's still in the early stages. People love it because of the technology it provides. I'm not holding it, though. I think there are way better coins out there. And as far as early coins are concerned ADA is still extremely early in my view (literally the mainnet isn't even up yet) so I'm holding a lot of it.

>>29804305
To much text, can I get a summary

>>29804545
>>29804631
Nice, I got electron wizard and I do lots of work with electronics as a hobby. Kek must be real.

>>29804669
ngmi, fucking dyor for once

>>29804669
>Something something probably buy gold. I swear it will make you rich, goy.

>>29804669
Lol

>>29804545
>>29804639
>>29804691
Oooooooops, my mistake, I misread. I didn't get electron wizard, I got Fuhrer. Which is appropriate too cuz I post on /pol/ all the time and mentioned goys here >>29804758

>>29804305
blah blah blah
Uniswap subgraph go BRRRRRRRRTTTTT

>>29804758
Lmao. Not telling you to buy shit. GRT is a good project but the cocksucking and lack of FUD was bothering me. So fuck off, nigger.

>>29804819
what a twist

all I know is I delegated in december and GRT printer go BRRRRRRR

>>29804820
>Uniswap subgraph released
>money starts pouring in
>indexer raises fees to 99%
>you miss out on all the gains because you're a retard who can't read
>hOw cOuLd tHiS hAvE hApPeNeD?!?!?!

>>29804305
>1
As far as I know this hasnt been an issue yet. If this later becomes an issue, we will see how the developers handle it.
>2
Not an issue until issue 1 becomes an issue.
>3
idk i dont know anything about this
maybe youre right
>4
same point as number 1
>5
same point as number 1
You dont have to delegate GRT if you genuinely believe these speculations to be true or will happen in the future.

>>29804545
Roll

Wake me up when bitcoin is 58k and GRT is back to 2.50, thanks.

lololol this tranny retard just assumed your GRT isnt locked up in a smart contract, you absolute fucking jew retard. Tell me how do i know you are a nigger?

>>29804929
>As far as I know this hasnt been an issue yet.

1) I had my kike indexer double their fee on me today for no reason. I know multiple people who have had their fees raised more than 50%, so it's absolutely happened. Do more research.

2) Besides that, something doesn't have to actually happen for it to be a problem. If you can look at the incentive structure and honestly tell me it's not skewed you're a braindead retard.

>>29805015
you know that a smart contract has programmable logic, right anon? You left high school, right?

>>29805015
also this post literally REEKS of pajeet sentence structure

Fair FUD and as a delegator I can admit most of this is true. As delegators we need to be more active on the forum. I was browsing the forum today and the amount of snobby comments from indexers is quite frankly infuriating. They think we are apes just chimping out throwing our money into the whale indexers because we see big shiny number and oo oo ahh ahh we love big shiny number. When in actuality we are going to whale indexers because it is in our best financial interest. Whale indexers like P2P allocate daily and provide a relatively high stable APY.
We need to voice our concerns and be heard and not let the indexers think they can run the show. I honestly hope some of these snobby fucks go bankrupt and have to join us "pleb" delagators.
Keep in mind we're still early and clearly a lot of things need to be changed.
>t. 50k delegator

This is absolutely completely unrelated to this thread: But can someone explain why the EOS.BTC trading pair on coinbase looks the way it does right now?

>>29805176
dear kike jew its says enough you spend valuable time to make an entire fud thread (all points are bs). Just be honest and say you want to accumulate more, genetic dead end.

the decentralized network is still in beta they havent even launched the subgraph explorer or migrated the subgraphs to it yet almost all of the subgraphs are still on the hosted network

>>29805293
who the fuck taught you to speak english?

honestly we need flags for this board so fucking bad

I delegate a fat stack of GRT, and I share some of these concerns. There's no doubt it's skewed in favor of the indexers. I hope we see more choices and competition for our GRT in the future but these guys are given so much GRT that they are effectively whales. Right now everyone just chooses p2p, but eventually they will be full.

>>29805372
All problems listed above are issues that will persist for both the decentralized and hosted networks. It's inherent in the protocol. Literally read it.

If you’re so worried about this then post on the forums or tweet to Yaniv. This is the whole point to there monthly town hall anyways. Posting this on a Mongolian street shitting board accomplishes nothing

How long do I have to hold this piece of trash before it hits $3? 10 years?!

>>29804305
This guy fucks. Tell us your current folio pls anon

>>29805556
>He thinks Yanav and his posse actually care what delegators have to say

I bet you think that congress actually cares about their testimonies too, huh faggot? Or how much Bezos cares about his warehouse workers?

fucking retard

>>29805665
25k. Initial buy in at $.11

Just sick of the cocksucking and lack of FUD.

>>29805692
bro tell me how many liters of nigger semen juice have entered your rectum? every single word you type out is utter fucking trash. no way in hell you arent a spic, a nigger, a jew or a combination of those 3.

>>29805740
Other holdings?

>>29805814
lmao

>>29805108
What indexer?
>>29805740
Nah you right this is def a little sketch. I think they gave the indexers so much freedom because they wanted it to truly be decentralized and unregulated but thats probably not gonna work out in the end
I went with p2p so I dont know the struggle

>>29804545
rollin

>>29805277
I got dubs somebody (you) me please.

>>29805826
>BTC
the boomercoin, but gay to say it's not gonna go up since that's what normies know.
>ETH
this one tests my resolve daily. The tech is good, and I place a lot of value on having first mover advantage. Matic/ETH2.0 (if its ever fucking released) will make it much better over time.
>LINK
to bring off-chain to off-chain
>GRT
to bring chain data off-chain.

I'm a developer, so I stick to what I know, which is tech around web3 infrastructure. Everything else is boom/bust noise, not good for long term investment.

>>29805963
>>29804545
>Le Gag
Just kill me tbhfam

>>29805869
Just hope p2p doesn't fuck up again or increase their cut to unreasonable levels. There's also only about 50M left until their maxed out.

>>29805869
I delegate to P2P- decent, but don't like the centralization aspect of it.

Rugpull indexer was nodehodler-com.eth, the fucking kike.

>>29804545
brooks was here
-brooks

>>29804545
roll

>>29805108
>get into delegating
>everyone says pick p2p or some other big one with safe rates
>pick some retard fly by night indexer that has never paid out a single GRT in rewards
>get fucked
>it's everyone else's fault I'm retarded.

>>29806026
Do you think matic is still a viable play? I have a 4fig stack and am looking for a long-term small to midcap play. Was going to go in with half my stack at 10c but didn't and fucking regret it since it would've taken me to 5fig. Other half is bitcoin.

>>29804305
>but the pool operator might be a meani
The absolute state of GRT fud

>>29806184
>p2p decides to rug too, because they can do that without any repercussions
cool man, we all end up in the same place at the end of the day.

This guy's insufferable.
Enjoy your 80-90% cut you fucking kike. Indexers actually feel they deserve this.

>>29806234
I have pretty good faith in Matic, honestly. It's poised very well in the ETH ecosystem to be a huge hub for decentralization- in regards to token price, though, I couldn't say. I haven't been following it, I just own a little to interact/deploy contracts on matic.

>>29806254
>p2p changes their rates
>smaller delegators smell blood in the water and take their share of the market
>everything goes on as usual
Sorry friend. I've already made back my gas and delegation burn. p2p could fuck me tomorrow and all I'll lose is time.

>>29806255
For context this guy offers you a 3.3% APY

>>29806359
Hmm ok thanks anon.

>>29806255
Yep, and then you find out he's on the (((Council)))

https://thegraph.com/blog/inaugurating-council-and-grants

When is the 3 dollar

>>29806411
>after which the smaller delegator rugs you because they can, again with no repercussions.

You're just hopping from one rugpull to another at that point. Eventually, I shouldn't have to check the network every morning to see if i've been rugpulled by an indexer- contributing to the network should be low-effort.

>>29806255
wow

>>29806559
Guess I'll see you there. Fact of the matter is the indexer with the best APY is going to get the most delegators.

GRT mirrors BTC perfectly. Not sure why everyone thinks GRT will be some kinda of weird exception and see a possibility to reach even $5

>>29804928
>> indexer raises fees to 99%
>> delegators undelegate and move to an indexer that isn't retarded.
>> indexer loses all his delegators and doesn't get as much rewards.

It's a called a competitive marketplace anon.
Indexers all compete against each other for delegators. The more delegators the more rewards they get. If indexers fuck the reward cut %, delegators will leave to a better indexer, and they won't get as much rewards.

I know you're looking for legitimate fud, and this project is pretty much unfuddable, but you gotta do better than this, buddy.

>>29806638
I agree this isn't an issue with big "trusted" indexers like p2p who are less likely to rug, but eventually the "high" APY gains vs. the opportunity cost of losing funds for 28 days will make your efforts negligible at best, in the event that the indexers all band together to fuck you.

Again, not an issue now, but could easily happen.

>>29806768
A competitive market doesn't introduce arbitrary, one-sided restrictions to the market. The 28 day freeze is a demonstrable example of a one-sided policy that is the opposite of a "competitive marketplace"

read more nigger

Which one you based anons is this kek

>>29806869
they need the freeze tho to keep the circulating supply down since theres 10 billion tokens

>>29806943
Based boy Gary got punched in the pussy.

>>29806993
See OP point 1. Did you even read the fucking post, you literal retard? Are you fucking braindead?

the problem with the freeze isn't that it exists, it's that it fucks one side exclusively, and benefits another.

Explain to me how it's a "competitive marketplace" when delegators are penalized for 28 days when getting rugpulled, and the indexer makes off with the cash.

I'll wait.

>>29804545
yes
So link staking will be the complete version of GRT?

>>29807098
so what do u want them to do freeze the indexer for 28 days if someone undelegated?

>>29804545
gimme a good one

>>29806869
The rules are the same for ALL indexers. Therefore they compete against each other for delegators and subsequently, and there within, more rewards.
It's fair across the board Equally for all indexers.
Your "argument" has therefore been rendered mute, and invalid.

Delegators and Indexers have different rules, this is true, but they play different roles.
Indexers will Always compete against each other to provide the most competitive and lucrative reward fees for it is mutually beneficial for delegators and indexers.

At this point i don't even see what you're trying to argue.

>> waahhh indexers don't have to wait 28 days like delegators do.
That's it?
That's all you got?
Pathetic.

>>29807205
A good start would be for the cooldown system to actually be used. Manadatory cooldown of ~28 days, or hell, even 7-14 days. That way APY can at least reasonably be locked in.

The current system completely ignores the cooldown system, specifically because all the indexers have colluded to ignore it.

>>29807283
>Indexers will Always compete against each other
Yeah until they accumulate their make-it stack and gtfo while you hold their bag for a month

>>29807283
>he doesn't know what game theory is

here you go anon. good luck passing your senior year of high school
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

>>29807283
>"no dude, Amazon and Microsoft are COMPETING with one another because they're both web services companies! Walgreens and CSV are COMPETING bro!!"

>"wait, w-what d-do you mean oligopolies are a thing now? How could this have happened?"

>>29807489
u should post this shit on the graph forum its actually a good point

>>29807407
" I can't defeat your argument, so i'm just going to attack you personally"

Congratulations, you have just conceded defeat.
gg.
ez.

>>29804545
Roll

>>29804545
Rollan

>>29807669
>Congratulations, you have just conceded defeat.
Oh god, ad hominem faggot is a GRT holder, bearish for GRT.

>>29807669
The more I read your argument the more retarded it got.

Hence why I responded twice.

>>29807489
>>29807383
>>29807407
Here you go bud.

Also yes, I did attack you personally, because somehow you're retarded enough to let your mother's disappointment seep into your writing, which I didn't know was possible.

>>29805277
Cheeeck

>>29806943
reminds me of that jew on kitchen nightmares that took all the waitresses tips lol. great coin you guys,

2 dollar when?

>>29806943
>your focus should be on making me rich, goy
No.

>>29808718
>>29808803
Bit concerning this is how a council member handles themselves desu

>>29809019
This is the first legitimate FUD I have seen on this coin.

>>29804305
>>29804821
Pretty good FUD OP gets the noggin joggin

>>29809019
Ask him for examples of other focuses

>>29804545
Kek

>>29804545
roll

So wait the 28 day lock only works 1 way?

>>29809246
That's not me I'm just silently observing. But that dude pretty did ask that and this council member is just being an arrogant twat

>>29804305
Fud is getting more sophisticated... bullish

>>29804545
rolling for HOBOMANCER

>>29809019
Wow

You want the ultimate FUD? Yaniv hates GRT holders and is coming out as trans.

>>29809330
yee

>>29808803
It's just a new form of wage slaving

>>29809019
Honestly I agree with >>29809105 this is legitimate FUD for this coin. And the first I’ve seen.

It’s pretty obvious that the attitude here is that the founders, Council member and major indexers will make money and virtually nobody else will.

What is the real point of delegators in the protocol? The indexers actually DO the job of indexing data and delegators are just riding coattails.

It’s obvious that is the team/indexers perspective and they aren’t particularly talented at hiding it. How quickly are indexers going to virtually-rugpull by slashing their cuts to 5% or less?

Why even bother going through the pretense of decentralization if you’re going to do that? This is basically the same as a boomer corporation: the C-suite makes bank and everyone else is wage slaving.

BTW can you guys not fud this until it goes back to ~2.2 so I can get my initial back

>>29809729
This is retarded. Why is it not smart contracted at the rate given for minimum 28 days. Yeah I honestly did quite a bit of research into GRT but overlooked this.
Also getting hard FUD from this council retard in discord. Might get out and swing into some more COTI instead before normies realise this shit. Maybe GRTsux was right.

>>29809873
OP here, this is the broader version of my point.

>>29809019
>>29806943
This is me. I honestly expected a more rational response. he seemed to take the defensive & aggressive approach to my questions.

>>29810231
He didn’t even bother to give you a bullshit response, obviously returns are the only option but he could have come up with something. Guy is a weirdo

>>29810231
I just read that chat and i think you're missing his point. If you check his history he's usually telling people to delegate to others to decentralize, even talked about it in the weekly call. He said right there he doesn't decide the fee for whatever node he's managing too you angry faggot.

>>29810606
Who said I'm angry? I just asked some pretty simple questions that he chose to not provide answers to but instead decided to act like a cunt.

can someone post discord link? I want to annoy this Gary faggot

>>29804305

A delegate offers allocation weight in return for shared rewards from a good-performing indexer - this share % is determined by the Indexer. Delegates don't secure anything from a block-production perspective because GRT isn't its own blockchain... their added weight only dictates the amount of traffic that'll head to a specific indexer. This means that a delegate can combat potential centralization of query traffic to a small extent by choosing not to delegate their GRT to a big indexer, but instead to one (or more than one) with lesser total allocation or stake. You can't bitch about indexers with higher keeps and bitch about decentralization at the same time... you're either going for APY or you're going for decentralization in the early stages here.

It looks like you got rugged which sucks, it happened to me too... but I combated this by being spread across numerous indexers instead of all eggs in 1 basket. There are a handful of indexers with cooldowns set, but I get this vibe that their APYs aren't high enough so that means we bitch about it and demand that we get paid more for clicking several fucking buttons on Metamask instead? Running an indexer right now pays only about 12% APY and I'm nowhere near technical enough to run this kind of infrastructure so I'll happily sit cozy making my 3-6% APY (and WAY more if you're an APY whore) as a delegate with my locked funds.

The situation we have right now is quite simple: we have delegates who are overstating their value-add to the protocol combined with a handful of indexers (mostly the giant whale ones) who are understating the difficulty involved with running a successful indexer along with racing to the bottom. Also, indexers do have cooldowns - it's the same 28 day thaw to unstake.

Filter: Enabled.
Fuck the haters. You bitches better hold this shit unless you hate making money. Literally, just don't look at your fucking portfolio. This shit will easily be $100 per coin in 5 years. Easiest money you've ever made.

>>29804305
>You want GRT fud?
nah im good

>>29810606
Also why would we as delegators choose to delegate to anyone but the people providing the highest APY? I'm here to make money so I will choose the indexer that is in my best interest. You can't complain about centralization and offer a less enticing service to delegators. It's not our duty to make it a even playing field for the indexers.

>>29810880
discord dot gg /RXGtSxdT

>>29810896
Literally why the fuck would anyone (-IN CRYPTO-) lock up their funds for 3-6% APY?

If you honestly think that you will get a largely staked network at those numbers you're fucking crazy. Oh wait---

Maybe THAT'S why the Graph only gave its community like 12% of the coins, and the rest went to major "backers" and indexers. Because the entire idea that this project is a "blockchain" project that is "decentralized" is a fucking sham. The early backers are just fine earning 3-6% APY on an investment that has already yielded 50,000% returns or something approximately that astronomical.

It's a shit APY system that doesn't give a shit about delegators. Their ONLY purpose in the protocol is to generate speculation returns on the secondary market. It has nothing to do with decentralization or "assigning weights" or anything. Just throw a bone at the retail investors to make them think they have a say, right?

Fuck you.

>>29810606
>suggest that there are incentives besides APY
>don't provide any examples
There was no logic to his response, just passive aggressive dismissal. Why was he butthurt if this is so impersonal to him? Seems like it didn't even cross his mind that delegators don't simply owe him their stake because his node is there.

>>29804545
GRT FUDniggers are cute in a 'tarded sort of way. I like watching them flail around.

>>29804545
rolln

>>29811081
Of course we want high APY and the guy literally told you to chase APY if you want it, without saying as much. Read between the lines. Do you think he can fucking flat out say that when he's employed to run another node? You people get assblasted so easily.

>>29811263
Honestly I don't have any issue with it because like I said my funds are locked, but I'm hodling GRT for the long term anyways... so the extra 3-6% is better than nothing. If my funds weren't locked and I was looking to maximize my APY while holding I'd probably just dabble with some GRT/ETH pools... but even then I'd have to worry about impermanent loss which could reduce my GRT bag a tad. Safest and easiest way to hodl is delegating and making that better than nothing APY. At the end of the day the inflation rate is only 3% too.

>>29804545
Rollins

>>29811101
You must check the digits for I am the 1x3
repent

>>29811450
I understand what you're saying but the way he answered was honestly pretty pathetic. He implied there is other reasons but provided none. Acting passively aggressive as a council member is just not the right way to respond to simple questions.

Fuck yall, didnt read, still holding

>>29806414
>3.3% APY
Lmao what the fuck is this boomer tier shit

Shit seems like a bot thread

>>29812475
3.3 is half of 6.6
their favorite number

>>29804545
i love spells

I don't care, coinbase is backing it and it's cheap = i buy

>>29804639
>ADA
>5 years
>still no mainnet
>no use cases
>no developers even looking to build on the chain
>not even a finished product
The absolute state of crypto investing

>>29804305
good thing i have a 5k baby stack and wasnt planning to delegate anyways

why the fuck are people fudding this so hard?

>>29812864
what are you holding atm?

>>29811263

Can't wait for this to go back up to 2.5+ so i can drop this shitcoin, fuck these kikes.

>>29804305
not a bad fud. now im interested in what ur portfolio looks like

>>29806768
This dumb nigger thinks the indexers won't just collude to ensure the highest fees possible without collapsing the system.

>>29807575
>graph forum
which one?

>>29814594
https://forum.thegraph.com/

>>29813234
>Can't wait for this to go back up to 2.5+ so i can drop this shitcoin, fuck these kikes.
Yeah, thinking the same when it hits around +2.7.

>>29813022
Sauce my friend?

>>29813022
you gotta question your own investments man

>>29805015
Ah yes, the edgy attention seeker racial humor only autist

>>29805108
High iq post. I hold grt. Thanks for bringing these concerns up.

I came here to enjoy some FUD for laughs but now I am thinking about selling my graphies.
WTF frens.

>>29817491
sell dude. this project is run by jews and they are trying to turn it into some 1% bullshit just like the real economy. it's all they know

>>29811263
locking them up unironically saved my stack from myself

>>29817779

G.R.T. great reset token. Buy a stack before its too late

>>29818331
i got 25k

Will it hit 3?

>>29818369
good. u dont have to eat the bugs or drink the shit water

>>29804639
Yeah, I'm thinking stop trying to sound like you know what you're talking about in terms of coin fundamentals and that you're not just buying because you saw threads on biz telling you to buy because you sound really dumb trying to explain anything in your post.

>>29804821
>GRT is a good project but the cocksucking and lack of FUD was bothering me.
>lack of FUD

What the fuck are you talking about retard? 70% of this board wants this coin to fuck off and die forever. And reading through this thread you seem like a really, REALLY angry and autistic faggot. While there are problems with the delegation system, everything is still very young on the developmental timeframe. Graph team is very communicative and open with the community despite being literal jews. Your "b-b-b-but i bet u think politicianinos care about their citizens too" argument here in your >>29805692 post is where you started you show cracks in your gay FUD and switched to sheer speculative /pol/-tier shit. I will be real with anyone holding this: GRT will be $5-$10 EOY, depends entirely on how high BTC goes and how high speculators want to speculate. But even faggot OP admitted in this thread he holds the coin as a fundamental infrastructure token as indicated here: >>29806026 . That alone should show you his primary intentions: he wants to do what he can to accumulate more, as even though he autistically took precious time out of his day to make this shit FUD thread, he regards the token as a fundamental and important long-term investment. Not every day you see someone FUDing a coin they hold and regard in this manner. Even the FUDers of GRT hold GRT. This should tell you something.

>>29817779
Thanks. I just sold for a small loss.
What should I put the money in?

>>29804724
Sold all grt thanks

>>29809873
You fail to understand basic economics. If all indexers cut rates to .03 APY, then one indexer will realize he can gain more by giving delegators .04 to fill up his delegation total. Extend this logic to the end and you understand what a market of indexers means. Delegating is literally betting on which indexers won't fuck you over. It's a market and you can make shit decisions in a market and get punished or else it's not properly set up. You all don't quite understand the GRT network and why they made a token.

>>29819228
unironically, grt

>>29819344
BHSL IYKYK

Iykyk, extremely bullish

>>29804305
Indexer can't steal your delegated tokens retard

>>29805245
This has me thinking about how GRT price is being kept down as well and how they WANT us to buy, but they want us to buy to delegate. Somewhere down the line there is going to be a point where we're all just hodling and soon the pressure will be put on indexers for more fair rewards and compensation. Im not sure how or if we would bother to try to voice this, but there has to be a tipping point somewhere down the line. This is just a loose theory, but if something like this does happen then it would be best to accumulate. Otherwise This is just going to be a project that no one wants to get into because its handled like piss.

>>29819344
huh? i just sold.

>>29819813
Why would you sell? People will become rich without you lmao.

>>29819228
>>29819813
Imagine selling before it pumps again in the coming months. Anons, I...

>>29819898
>>29819930
im a simple /b/tard. help me frens.

>>29820215
FUD on this board is not going to affect the market. Don't listen to FUD threads. Most people here are shilling you information based on their own best interests. Research projects yourself and buy what you believe in. Don't over-diversify. Hold and profit.

>>29820215
>still browsing /b/ in 2021

ngmi