/biz/ - Business & Finance

>best possible UX to devs and users
well that's doomed

So let me get this straight.
Sequencers extract MEV on Optimism, and then pay out the profit to OP holders... why exactly? It's still stealing from users and giving the theft to OP holders.

In addition, in order for this to work you need a clear, transparent, decentralized distinction of where MEV profit is made.

Finally, why on earth will any user use Optimism (where they are getting frontran) over Arbitrum (where they are not getting frontran).

>>49341153
because the other one is beautiful dance and the other one is not
>dev from white house
its like do you want to be on the side of the big corp or the cyperpunks?!

>>49341173
I will side with whatever platform doesn't steal from me.

>>49341153
nah, you got this wrong
currently the only sequencer is run by the optimism devs and extracts no mev

>>49341181
Like

>>49341193
https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1522227464021422082

>>49341207
Grassroot as fuck

HOLY FUCK THE ABSOLUTE COPE ITT

JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP PAY THE GAS FEE AND GET EXCITED FOR THE NEXT TOKEN

*Cue Star Wars theme*

It is a period of Civil War between the reigning Layer Two Solutions. Super Cool Optimism Devs have sided with the the Trans Rebel Alliance and plan to increase MEV.

Meanwhile the Evil Anti MEV goons, headed by Darth Ed Felten Vader, plan to eliminate MEV, enhance the user's experience, and stop the flow of precious HRT to children all over the galaxy.

Totally Cool mETH Discord Groomers have stolen the secret plans to a Super Awesome version of HRT to help children transition into Force Children and defeat the evil CIS Empire for good.

>>49341080
>Twitter screenshot
>Retarded post
>It's da joos
Yep I'm on biz alright

>>49341080

>>49341301
>>49341351
>no, don't post primary source material of mev mafia talking about their systemized grift

>>49341442
POS can stop MEVS completely

>>49341442
POS can stop Mev completely

>>49341277
Checked and kek’d

>>49341583
Oh Jesus the state of this board
From not realizing that mev is a necessary part of this future to this level of ignorance
Biz is truly dead

>>49341583
Stop posting misinfo

>>49341181
FSS provided by chainlink will solve your issues and the MEV mafia will seethe

>>49341080
Wen Arbitrum and zksync you devs, I need to get some more gems with 1/5th of airdropped amount say VET, Holoride, FLD and lots more and also fix my shitty life together.

OP will not give you access to the MEV revenue. That's a fucking pipe dream.

you vill let use front run you
you vill be happy

>>49341277
Based
Looking forward to episode two

>>49342861
You get it indirectly by OP value accruing, but yes sequencers and MEV bots get the biggest share

>>49341818
>mev is a necessary part of this future
They tell you this because they can't solve the problem, there's a reason why ETH maxis won't mention Arbitrum and Chainlink

>>49343455
>can’t solve the problem
Can’t, or don’t want to?

>>49341818
MEV mafia is accepting a literal subhuman extortion scheme, I hope you KYS or get frontran for all your net worth you sack of shit

>>49343455
One day Eth will actually become worth its price, until then, it's literally there because boomers have agreed to buy and stack it

Stacking dot Avax atom and getting the fuck out of mETH

I think /biz/ sorta has it wrong regarding MEV, but not that its bad (it is). Rather that solving it isn't due to retail demand, retail is too dumb and stupid to know or care about that. Its being solved to get enterprise level action onto the blockchain, because the big boys aren't going to look the other way at some fucking grassroots punk fag skimming off the top of all their transactions. Arbitrum (and by extension link) are forcing the space to grow up, and the MEV slumlords are kicking and screaming the whole way because they already got theirs and they want to maintain that.

>>49343855
Good post, mev trannies just ACK'd reading this

>>49341277
exquisite post

>>49343997
The whole space is just rentseekers who desperately want to maintain the status quo, btc maxi's are no better in a lot of ways, and neither is the shitcoin casino. Its all people that are used to either getting easy 1000x's, or in btc maxi's case, desperately wanting to maintain their wealth. Last cycle should have been crypto's dotcom bubble except useless trash was even more proliferated this cycle.

>>49341080
SKALE is legit a great L2. Very fast blocs, hard if not impossible to front run.

>>49344624
>The whole space is just rentseekers who desperately want to maintain the status quo
this. the state of crypto and it's cognitive dissonance are wearing me out

>>49341080
I have no fucking Idea what L1 or L2 or L3 means

>>49344624
Its hard to take any of it seriously, but there is interesting infrastructure popping up, AMMs, lending and even decentralized leverage trading.
All of these are just feeding the casino, but it could be used for tardfi. Retards being retards allows the people building this shit up to iron out all the bullshit, you cant have banks being frontrun by trannies.
I expect the next cycle to also be retarded, but with the big players trying out our new toys that didnt brake this round

Imagine copying a system for p2p money created to remove middlemen just so you could become the middleman yourself and people are still stupid enough to use it

>>49345250
Well at least the blueprint for how to play the cycles is pretty clear now, if the next one is as retarded as the last. Early bear hold bitcoin, mid-late bear hold link as its the only thing trying to move the space forward, bull hold eth as its still the biggest shitcoin casino.

Like woah dude totally cool I am down with this like barely legal sweet underage token Optimism it's like so cool and would totally rock a pizza night with you and other cool devs in an EPIC exposed RED BRICK barcade and we all play MARIO KART BING BING WAHOO

*Cue STAR WARS THEME*

It is a period of Civil War between the reigning Layer Two solutions. The Trans Rebel Alliance, working in secret from within the MEV mafia, has sided with the totally cool and awesome Optimism Devs to peacefully extract the maximum amount of MEV from users to safely deliver HRT to children all over the galaxy and defeat the evil CIS Empire

>>49341080
Reminder that MEV can be solved
Reminder that paid shills like hasu will gaslight you relentlessly into not believing this
Reminder that hasu is literally a paid shill

>>49341153
Arbitrum and OP sequencers are both ran by the respective teams

>>49342157
>my hypothetical product will cure cancer
Ok bud, let me know in two weeks when it's released

Chainlink is one of the very very few groups actually enabling this space to grow. I like the crypto punk attitude, but this space was really open for someone or a group with actual an actual vision, research, and development teams to actually make shit happen. Now chainlink is establishing a monopoly right under these people's noses, and they don't even have a clue. Everything will route through CL nodes for various services. FSS will eventually come, any chain not using it will be shamed, and rent seekers will be exposed. All that talent and time that could have been used to move the space forward(like Chainlink is doing) was instead used to extract value from everyday users and processes which will become useless. It just goes to show who the real builders are

I thought Optimism was adopting FSS?

>>49341080
I feel like something important is discussed here and I am not smart enough to understand it. Which token do I need to profit in the end? ETH, LINK or OP?

>>49350990
ETH if bull market, bitcoin if bear market, link if in between. Depends where you think we are.

>>49350990
MEV is a solvable problem. Optimism decided not to solve it and call it a feature. They literally want to be the gubmint and tax you through MEV for fun. Arbitrum with LINK FSS (which will release in, say, two more weeks) promise to solve the problem.
LINK long term, ETH middle term, USDC short term, OP never.

Good thread, thank you

>>49351373
Is there a tl;dr how this LINK FSS magically solves the MEV issue? If they have a solution for it, why couldn't someone else just copy that solution? Say, just Ethereum itself?

>>49351535
a sequencer handles transaction ordering instead of the miner/validator. if the sequencer is a black box no one can fuck with it. chainlink is a black box. building a different black box would require putting in all the effort chainlink has already done, while competing against chainlink. so just use chainlink.

>>49345457
exactly. eth foundation disgusts me

>>49351535
Spam filter keeps blocking my reply but basically it cost link 5 years and who knows how many billions to establish a network trusted enough to do this, its not exactly something you can just copy.

>>49350815
it's frankly heroic what they and offchain labs are doing. academics actually using their intellect for good

>>49341173
>because the other one is beautiful dance and the other one is not
kek
Hudson is such a faggot

>>49351693
Don't get it all twisted, they're still profiting immensely, just not to the extremes you usually see in crypto. And there are certainly figures behind the curtains who we probably don't even know about who have a hand in this, SWIFT didn't pick link by accident. Still, it does go to show that the common man can't be trusted, because that's what eth was supposed to be and look how corrupted it became.

>>49341277

>>49351665
>>49351666
Sound nice, but how does it work? Here's my limited understanding of MEV: someone always decides the transaction order and this someone can extract benefit from that power. How does a black box of sorts help? How do we know that whoever/whatever sits inside this black box and decides the sequence can't order it in a special way to fuck you over?

>>49350415
the difference is Arbitrum plans to decentralize it with minimized Mev through Chainlink FSS
https://youtu.be/wGBilgN-KHo

whereas Optimism is indulging the MEV maffia by a defeatist claim it is impossible and will maximize MEV by sharing the profits of their Sequencers to OP holders (problematic for all the reasons I outlined in my first post)

>>49351804
No one is sitting inside the box anon, the sequence can't be known and manipulated, advanced cryptography works like magic

>>49351877
I have to say I am amazed at how Sergey managed to convice all these high-flyers to work with or even for Chainlink. In particular Ari Juels and Eric Schmidt.

I'd be curious to know how he approached and then convinced them. Ari was probably bought out with Towncrier a la "Hey man we like your TC algo come join us and we pay you $50mn for the patent sounds cool?", but Eric Schmidt i have no idea.

>>49341277
I recognize your style anon and you should have an online presence or something. Maybe we can flesh this out into some kind of ongoing series. "In this episode, the faggot rent seeking rebel alliance is locked in battle with the dark forces of the low fee security storm troopers.

chainlink fss.

>>49341583
Yeah a new level of mev where you can just re-order blocks to drain oracles directly.

>>49351804
ETH says hey MEV will always exist, deal with it. Arbitrum says we will order it fairly, and you have to trust us. Right now that is a leap of faith. Eventually they will be employing link nodes who are forced to stake link tokens to prove their reputation to provide this service. If a node is found to be lying, they are slashed and lose their tokens.

Is it truly decentralized? Not in the most absolute autistic sense, but its as close as you can get without actually being on the blockchain itself. Of course some anons will argue that DONs don't truly solve the oracle problem, but this debate was already hashed out 5 years ago here, and the ones who disagreed watched link go up 300x in price, and still sit comfortably on a 30x at the current local bottom. Except at this point if you still disagree, now you're also disagreeing with entities like SWIFT and Eric Schmidt. Yes, unfortunately the final form of crypto is going to end up working with banker kikes, but this was always inevitable.

Polygon Hermez fixes this

>>49352726
>unfortunately the final form of crypto is going to end up working with banker kikes, but this was always inevitable
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the reason why money skelly is blabbering all over twitter like a teenage girl. He knows he sold his soul, and soon you all will too. May your centralized, rent seeking, permissioned blockchains lay lightly upon you and the children you sold to the banks for profit. Fucking pathetic

arbitrum will be released in the next 24 hours

>>49352865
I don't view eth as the bad guys here, its human nature, its greed. That being said, when they try to paint link as the big bad corporate boogy men who are coming to ruin magical crypto land, its laughable.

>>49351804
>How do we know that whoever/whatever sits inside this black box and decides the sequence can't order it in a special way to fuck you over?
It's pretty easy. Make sure that whoever sits inside the black box isn't a jew.

It's a shame that despite all of the technological advancements of Chainlink and their team one truth remains painfully obvious, i.e the token not being needed.

>>49352479
Eric doesn't work for Serg. He's advicing. He's not an employee
I'm not saying this to disparage, it's still massive that a guy of that caliber is actively associating and helping chainlink labs

>>49354410

>>49341080
I am optimist in Arbitrum's success.

>>49341583
Not necessarily if the majority of the nodes are corrupt.
However Chainlink can fix this.
Chainlink will give definitive truth as the real layer 0 and every shitty platform trying to steal will get the slashing they deserve when their collateral gets seized after the first cheating attempt.