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/biz/ - Business & Finance


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50146765 No.50146765 [Reply] [Original]

Anons,

>bitcoin's last remaining narrative is that it is a secure, decentralised, censorship resistant monetary network.

For it to remain secure (maintain current hashrate) it needs to find $4.6bn per annum for miners to breakeven.

( 14000*6.25*144*365 , 14000 is average cost, 144 is blocks per day).

It can pay for this security either through block rewards or fees or a combination.

Block rewards will decline to zero by 2140, but problems arise as soon as 2028, with block rewards being a quarter of what they are today.

>It is unlikely that fees will ever replace the block rewards- bitcoin will never be used for payments unitil it is widely held; it will never be widely held until it is neccessary for payments.

>Bitcoin has to solve this chicken and egg dillema before block rewards become negligible

>Even if it does become regularly used for payments, there is no way that the near-zero fees of Lightning network comes close to $4.6bn per annum.

For context, Visa's annual revenue is $25bn. It achieves this by charging 2-3% on the value of every transaction.

>the question thus: how will bitcoin pay its miners?

The answer is simple enough during speculative bubbles and fed liquidity cycles, the price is high enough.

But what about recessionary times in which there is no speculative fervor?

Bitcoin may well ride out this particular recession/tightening cycyle because block rewards are still high but what about the next?

If bitcoin cannot find a way to pay its miners to mantain a reasonable level of security during a low block rewards regime, it is lights out and goodnight forever for btc.

>> No.50146810

>>50146765
Blah blah blah

>> No.50146825
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50146825

I've fucked a bald woman

>> No.50146957

Did you run your fingers over her bald head while doing so?

>> No.50146977
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50146977

>>50146765
And that's a good thing

>> No.50147542

>>50146765
>bitcoins dying
>bitcoins dead
You newfags never get old
I’ve been hearing this shit for almost a decade

>> No.50147562

>>50146765
FUCKING RETARD THREADS FOR FUCK SAKE

IF ALL HIGH END MINERS FUCK OFF, NEW MINERS CAN COME IN WITH LOWER HAS RATE


FUCK OFF NIGGER JEW WHORE CUNT FAGGOT ARE YOU FUCKED IN THE HEAD

ALSO EVERYONE ELSE WHO READ ALL THIS AND BELIEVED IT

NGMI

SAGE

>> No.50147723

Not a newfag. I ask a simple question:

>How will the bitcoin network maintain a high hashrate with low block rewards in 2028, absent seculative fervor and fed liquidity?

Yes, the difficulty adjustments enable the lowest cost base miners to continue- centralising power in their hands. Also, the overall hashrate is still lower, meaning the network security is failing.

I am looking for reasons to buy back in. This is the time to discuss bitcoin fundamentals.

>> No.50147741

>>50147723
hash rate has nothing to do with security you jackass now shut the fuck up and PUMP MY BAGGIES

>> No.50147801

Hashrate is security. The lower it is, the easier the network becomes to attack, or even to pass a proposal to change the block rewards, max cap of 21m

I am not leaving here until at least one well-thought out answer is given,

>absent fed liquidity and speculatove fervor, where does btc find the money to compensate the miners?

>> No.50147869

Anyone who truly believes in Bitcoin should at minimum run a node.

>> No.50148498

>>50146765
Dogecoin solves this

>> No.50148590

>>50147801
The most you can do with a pow attack is double spend or cause network split. Both of these can be coordinated around. Fees can build on any fork until it is profitable to mine

>> No.50148660
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50148660

>>50146765
This is why PoW is trash and ETH will flip this outdated worthless coin.

>> No.50148661

Bitcoin will not be a secure coin anymore. Anyone will be able to hack it

>> No.50148709

>>50146765
same meme was shilled the last 3 halvings

>> No.50148755

>>50148660
PoW is the minimum cost of signaling honest action. It is where electricity costs meet opportunity costs.
PoS is obfuscated proof of work, it’s more costly and the signal is messy.
If you don’t understand what I’m saying, keep providing liquidity to literal scam artists

>> No.50148780

>>50146765
>Next halvings may kill bitcoin
This is the dumbest fucking site.

>> No.50148789

>>50146765
>If bitcoin cannot find a way to pay its miners to mantain a reasonable level of security during a low block rewards regime, it is lights out and goodnight forever for btc.
So stupid.

>> No.50148836

>>50148709

Last 3 halvings had the benefit of excess fed liquidity and speculative fervor around certain narratives- both of which are now gone.

The fact that bitcoiners are now afraid of inflation readings and federal reserve liquidity should be alarming to you.

>In b4 "zoom out" comment. We cannot benefit from past price action, no matter how amazing it was. We can only benefit from future price action

>> No.50148892

>>50147801
You can't change consensus rules with a 51% attack. You can only attack within the parameters of the current ruleset, which basically means you can censor or reorg, and you have to maintain that attack forever

>> No.50149056

>>50147562
The thing is, if the hashrate is low enough to make a 51% attack economicaly feasable can be the end of bitcoin.

>> No.50149107

>>50148836
>reddit spacing

>> No.50149298

>>50146765
The price will go up because the rate of new supply will go down.

>> No.50149491

>>50148789
i will mine bitcoin for bitcoin. if you think its worthless thats ok. more btc for me

>> No.50149550

also op is a fucking retard!
think twice and use your brain instead of typing a thousand words

>> No.50149585

This was not meant as a fud or demoralization thread.

I am merely asking for a candid discussion on the economic underpinnings of the bitcoin network.

If biz does not agree that the block rewards will eventually need to be replaced by fees , state why.

>> No.50149613

>>50149550

Critique the arguments presented, not the author.

>> No.50149650

>>50146765
you don't understand PoW and you don't understand electricity. First of all Proof of Work requires WORK. not MONEY(which is just fake centralized numbers anyway, it does not exist). Mining will shift. not everyone that mines needs to pay for electricity. I can go on for hours but this should be the 2 keys for you.
Research PoW.
Research Energy Generation

Money has NOTHING to do with it

>> No.50149703

>>50148836
>liquidity pump in 2024 won't happen as a result of the upcoming recession
nigga you dumb

>> No.50149711
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50149711

>>50149650
>>50146765
i will add, if you want to know about PoW. The monero community knows what it is, and why it is. go research there. its not Proof of MONEY its proof of WORK.

Proof of stake = Proof of money (like your "needs $4.6B")

if you haven't spend atleast 100 hours researching PoW then you don't know what it is
if you haven't spend atleast 100 hours researching energy generation, you don't know what it is

Protip : PoW is a feature, not a bug.

>> No.50149713

>>50149650

Bitcoin mines run on energy and a small amount of labour/overhead. Both cost money.

The number of miners whose energy cost is zero is neglible.

>> No.50149716

>>50149650
It indirectly costs money, if mining becomes unprofitable the difficulty will drop. If it drops far enough due to fees not providing enough incentive to mine the cost to attack the network becomes feasible.

>> No.50149718

>>50148892
and if they did that it would crash the price so there's an incentive to not attack

>> No.50149755

>>50149585
i agree that will happen but it will not be the end of bitcoin. people hold all sorts of assets regardless of transfer fees so it's safe to say bitcoin will still be relevant in a fee for transfer service world.

>> No.50149763
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50149763

>>50148836
you don't get it. you are still thinking in $$$. no one that understands Bitcoin wants any $$$. no one that knows how the $$$ Ponzi Pyramid works wants $$$. No one that is rich has $$$ on their balance sheet.

this shoud be enough i need to go laterino. also pic related is the best asset in the entire space together with Bicoin, all other projects = token not needed

>> No.50149827
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50149827

>>50149713
i don't think you understand how much energy is literally wasted cause they cant put it on the net. please go research energy generation and how it works for a few hundred hours before making stupid posts on /biz/
the really final post

>> No.50149886

>>50146765
dont worry, once eth successfuly go PoS, there will be a fork of bitcoin to go PoS, a fork to add adjustable inflation. only a small number of maxis will consider the current btc the real btc. the vast majority of the world will go with the inflationed bitcoin or PoS.

>> No.50149904

>>50149613
why yes indubitably!

>> No.50150022

>>50146765
itll most likely be taken over by big goober-mints or cooperations that can either afford to lose some money or have access to free energy. btc is already very centralized with a handful of mining pools doing most of the work. this will just further centralize btc.

>> No.50151498
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50151498

>>50146765
>>50149713

Nice questions OP.
IMHO the real value of btc is in the network, not the coins. The only hope are the projects built on top of it (L2). I think it will inevitably move to PoS and I dont know where the miners will get their money/work back, but there must be a way

>> No.50152888
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50152888

>fees are too high! bitcoin failed!
>fees are too low! bitcoin failed!