/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>54497937
Tech bubble 2.0. I was in high school for the first one. I remember lots of empty business parks.

>>54497937
Investors are stupid. They conflate "really big" with "safe." Big Tech companies are still big enough for them to flock to. The bubble isn't popping soon.

>>54497937
>>54497994
Meh don’t care. Security engineering is still seeing double digit growth every month and there’s an extreme shortage of infosec professionals with 5+ YOE. Turns out having a specialization makes you recession proof. Sorry code monkeys

Why do they call themselves software engineers?
They don't make software they make websites.
A more proper title should be web fudge packer.

>>54497937
Sorry Jack, Biden said this is the best recovery is history, you're posting fake news

>>54497937
>Software bubble
The people fired from FAGMAN were hr and recruiting roasties. Are we still pushing the cope that engineers are being fired?

>>54498050
Websites are a software. And if you're not just a low level code monkey, you actually engineer the solution from requirements and acceptance criteria up to the complete project and how it interacts with your companies infrastructure.

>>54497937
Just learn to code

7>>54498106
Its also people working on useless projects that are getting fired, now that the cheap money is drying up. Lots of tech was being sustained by the low interest rates.

>>54498106
The market has always been oversaturated with people who got hired by a FANG company and use it solely for a reference on their CV.

I'm expecting to complete my B.S in Comp Sci soon (from WGU, don't judge me pls). How fucked am I? I have 10 years real world work experience in a variety of jobs. I also have a TS clearance. Should I try to do a certification path like Microsoft MSSA?

>>54498133
Big true. I had the opportunity years ago to work for Facebook and Amazon. Decided I didn't feel like performing the leet code shuck and jive just to make less than I was making in San Francisco when adjusted for cost of living. Fuck FAGMAN. I'm at a company doing some cool shit with AI tech and I'm happy in the space.

>>54498133
Amazon alone has a strict policy wherein the bottom worst performers in engineering (i've heard numbers ranging from 2% to 10%) get sacked yearly regardless of economic situation. Just because FAANG hires X more programmers, it doesn't necessarily mean that there are X more programmers being added to the workforce.

>>54498137
If you have a TS clearance you will be set for life dude chill. Just get a cozy government job and be a parasite leeching off all of our taxes

>>54498137
Get some experience with AI. Anything at all. NLP, computer vision, whatever you can do. That's the future. If you understand it even slightly you're already ahead of the endless see of web dev poojeet code monkeys that will be replaced by GitHub copilot.

According to the bls there are more professional musicians than programmers.
You fell for the follow your passion is a meme meme and you were the npc all along.

as a software engineer i'm enjoying watching all the irresponsible people who squandered their wealth and decided to overleverage themselves lose everything after they spent years being like 'bro just get an insane mortgage and credit card debt i'm so smort i don't need to live within my means xd'

it literally costs me less than their mortgage repayment to live comfortably

>>54498160
how much can I expect to make? because I basically have to live and work in Northern Virginia no? shit's expensive. I'm from SOVA and NOVA is basically the SanFran of my once great state

>>54497937
shoulda got that security clearance

>>54498106
A lot of engineers were fired, there were threads here about it. Apparently a good amount of them were H1B visa Indians. You don't really need 5,000 software engineers to maintain some generic social media website that never really changes its features up anyway.

>>54498213
theres ts work all over the place dude. Texas, cali, nova, md, ohio, hawaii.....

It was pretty obvious that there would be a ripple effect after the mass layoffs, its fucking over.

>>54498029
>dont plug in usbs
>dont open email attachments
thatll be 150k a year

Times like these make me so glad I got into healthcare instead of computer science. I'll never make $400k like a Facebook engineer but I'm happy to make half that in a low cost of living part of the country.

>>54498277
Checked
And thankfully the average employee at every company is a literal retard who despite all warnings continues to plug in that usb and open that suspicious email kek

>>54498285
counterpoint, do tech for healthcare. I make bank, work remotely, and live in a low cost of living area. Basically recession proof job :)

>>54498114
Imagine believing this kek

>>54498285
Time for your 5th booster health worker cuck

>>54497937
>tell everyone to "just learn to code bro"
>everyone learns to code
>"150k starting salary with 2 hours of work per week bro"
>now you have 100 million new coders
>none of them actually get hired anywhere
>turns out you don't actually need this many fucking coders
>bubble pops
Wow, who would've known.

>trad engie
You mean AI engineering.

>>54498391
>>"150k starting salary
Yes, this was my actual starting salary.
>>with 2 hours of work per week bro"
Stop watching Tiktok. I worked 60 hours per week on average. FAANG will pay you a lot and expect you to work a lot too.

>>54497937
Yeah in our tech department I heard they get thousands over the course of a month

>>54498294
I’m in security but make 125k more than 150. Devs and infrastructure teams are also garbage when it comes to security so that helps as well. Windows is a dumpster fire , people suck at patching their assets, and the network engineers think ANY ANY ANY Is a good firewall rule

>>54498418
bullshit I work for Netflix and haven't coded anything in 3 months because the project is held up by the marketing team.

>>54498441
>275k
Fuck dude my TC is like 180k I have to get on your level

Learn to roof.

>>54497937
Cool. Fuck every dork faggot working remotely in other countries living my dream, getting their little cricket dicks stroked by reluctant cuties.

I had these fucking swift faggots looking down their nose at me cuz I was just a pleb on a 6 month vacation. Those little wiry dork faggots thought they were the king of the castle because they made six figures overseas.

I hope they all get thrown out of their jobs face first on the street. Fucking pieces of shit

>>54497937
I have 5 yr exp and only make $110k

I just had a son. What career options are going to be realistically possible in the future?

>>54498481
More like learn to rope

>>54497937
You know what's also ashame is that they told so many blue collar workers to quit their jobs and "learn to code" as other posters pointed out

A lot of people actually did and now look, now we have millions of people who can code, and now the profession has been completely saturated.

Sure there are better coders but there's still hundreds of the really high quality coders too. It's just so oversaturated that if you aren't in, there's no point to start for a career. If you like coding, pick it up as a hobby, don't mold your future career around it because it will soon not be enough to get you a job. The days of someone just being a "coder" and nothing more, are soon to be over, and they will have to diversify their skillset.

I'm thankful every day I got into finance, the capitalist system will never go away and there will always need to be people to manage the elaborate house of cards. I learned some python and that made me incredibly powerful in my position.

Tech isn't gonna end, but yeah what's ending is the days of "learn to code" and telling everyone and their mother to start coding. The barrier of entry will be far higher, mainly for those who exclusively love coding as a passion and choose to "work" round the clock. The lower end coding jobs are in for a mega crash soon and I feel for those who will have their lives flipped upside down. Many will go homeless, lose their families. Very tough times ahead for 75% of tech workers, if you are one reading this I hope you are part of the 25% who actually performs work, because if you aren't, you will have a hard time in the near future.

>>54498441
But who pays you if nobody gives a shit about security?
>let’s hash SSNs, or fuck it just store them in plaintext
>if you open a user’s profile and click inspect element you can read their password
>emojis crashed my server.

>>54498106
This anon gets it entirely. If you don’t know why you’re likely to be laid off in the near future


Here’s why: Companies created these departments and divisions to secure that debt, the debt is no longer available and therefore those employees are no longer valuable. Their value was their existence to validate a loan from these institutions.

Anything not directly tied to revenue is BTFO in the environment we exist in currently

>>54498610
I fucking hate finance because it's literally nothing but doing faggot fucking tests

I have to get my SIE tomorrow
Sick of this shit

>>54497937
Most of the applications are bots. You see, we are sick and tired of getting jerked around by hr roasties, so we have flipped the game. Have fun roasties sorting through the bullshit.

>>54498610
>people who provide no value will be fired
i feel like it will be clown world and the good guys will get fired all over the place am i wrong for thinking this?

>>54498502
Anon, are you ok?

>>54497937
Wow a Reddit post of some guys larp, what a great thread!

>>54498116
Learning to code isn't enough. Creativity is necessary. If they could make their own game that stands out at a philosophical level there wouldn't be a problem.

>>54497937
I don't see what the problem is. There are plenty of warehouse and fast food jobs waiting to be filled.

It's time to officially retire the T in STEM.
What an absolute bunch of jokers.

>>54498587
What happened to boomers in 1993?
I can only hope it happens again.

>>54498502
Never have this problem when I go on vacaton. Whenever I leave the resort, people are usuallly trying to sell me merchandise or otherwise beg for money.
My parents founded my last vacation in Europe with the wife (approx 50k). It was a total mood kill, we just stopped leaving the resort after the first month.

>>54498791
Prescription opioids

>>54498266
They're desperate for someone to sponsor them otherwise they gotta gtfo

>>54498639
Whats wrong with hashong SSNs?

>>54498418
No one I know at FAANG works 60 hour weeks. It’s pretty much just 9-5.

>>54498520
bug rancher, pod-home builder

>>54498871
Rainbow tables

>>54497937
A lot of people willing to work is a positive sign for the future if the economy

Fuck this nigger market, i was learning to code for real but instead, debtmaxxed all my credit cards and threw everything at crypto like $180k

i'm going to fucking make it or not, there's no between. I'm going to retire in thailand and fuck whores everyday

being a code monkey is not safe anymore nor profitable...

I'm specializing in data science. AIGMI?

>>54497937
3/4 of them are indians making up their credentials.

>>54497937
>$150k
>well below average
codecels need to be gassed

>>54498029
I just realized anyone who types YOE is probably a little beta bitch cuck. Circle back on that and touch base with your gayness.

>>54499087
Is it our problem you whyteboys are too proud to lie?

kek I do fake job listings like that and scrape the info from their resumes, which is then sold to (((agencies))). you dont wanna know how much money they pay. as long wagie seeks cagie, I'm eating good

>>54498050
So the one implenting a whole excel clone in webshit didnt write software because its a website? But the excel engineer did?

>>54498821
Oh see I fuck hookers and would never get married so I don’t “do” resorts. That sounds cringe and sterile as fuck.

>>54498503
I have 4 years in info sec making 78k how do you niggers get paid so much? I know a guy with cissp only making 90k. In central Florida

>ending my first year in cybersec degree, EU
should I be worried?
holy shit I just want my cubicle and be left alone

>>54499677
Depends. I think defense work will always want human eyes to double check systems to make sure they're secure. Entry level positions will be memed to death most likely so you better grind some internships

>>54498441
I actually attempted to get into cybersecurity but apparently getting a cybersecurity degree doesn't actually help because by the time you're done the info is outdated and you need to learn new things again. But the drunk software engineer that talked me out of it might be wrong.

Why pay 150k if they get hundreds of applications
Couldn't they just offer half and still get a lot

>>54497937
I thought european salaries would eventually get dragged up... it's over.

>>54499787
maybe if you produced any good software your salaries would go up
name a european software company besides SAP

>>54499208
It will soon become a problem when the entire workforce that built the United States is replaced with the dishonest, the inefficient.

>>54497937
>literal who tweet exclaiming fud without factual evidence
>le collapse of the tech industry is le here lmao
kys
>>54498027
this
/thread

>>54499794
We could have made a good software, but creating company in this hellscape is impossible.

>>54498391
>just a high school degree bro
>just a college degree bro
>just don't get a liberal arts degree bro
>just do a trade bro
>just do STEM bro
>just learn to code bro
>just go to healthcare bro

>>54498922
So salt them

>>54497937
>Mechanical Engineers
Can't that job be automated as well? They're not actually building shit are they, just coming up with plans

>>54498739
Yeah we all know the games that make all the money are those made by one guy with the philosophy degree lmao

>>54499598
have to sell your soul making lgbt dating websites or some shit for globo corp. don't worry, webshitters wont be around for long anyway

>>54499817
cope

Kek dumbfuck techies
Chatgpt will take all of your jobs in the next decade anyway. Get good at making french fries

>>54498339
They laid off tech for healthcare here recently

>>54499729
They were wrong
Things don't change THAT fast. They sound like a redditor crab bucketing you

>>54499729
Your drunk friend is right, the problem with cybersecurity degrees is that they don’t prepare you for the threats you’ll actually see because they’re too general
Security isn’t really one field, it’s hundreds of smaller fields that have similar themes, and someone with domain knowledge who also does security will be far more effective than a generalist
The best security people I’ve known have always been ex-devs or ex-IT, the stereotypical ex-hacker types, while they know neat tricks, are usually too theoretical in their knowledge

>>54498114
Softer than software. Mushware. Web is a dead medium, killed by g°°gle and @ppl. Barely any has survived the smartphone and SEO/ad onslaught; most of it rotting tasty wheat without even the courtesy of code that gives it flavor. Maybe if people can look past their greed for pennies, they can make real money.

>>54498277
Chcecked and this
Our security just sends a mail with : don't buy ethereum-mumbai tier advice or don't send money to Nigerian prince
once a month
Easiest job ever

I've worked as both a DBA and developer, each for 5 years. I don't know if I should keep doing development but it does pay better

lrn3mill

>>54497937
enough of the world has come to accept all this stuff being done by "software developer" bla bla bullshit is mostly worthless fluff luxury time wasting nonsense that isn't "necessary" or have any particular real utility other than wasting time on luxury distractions

>>54498520
>>54498891
This, and prompt engineer.

>>54500547
worse, it's actually harmful to societies of all persuasions and is only useful for megalomaniacs sitting in positions of power.

nothing makes the useless subhuman neet seethe like the software developer wfh chad who makes 10x their neetbux while shitposting all day.

>>54498029
Shhhh don't tell them anon.

t. highly certified pentester.

>>54498277
I don't even know what a 'security engineer' is but this sounds very accurate based on the number of IRL people I've seen fall for "Sir someone is trying to open your facebook account" tier phising scams.
>>54498441
What's the start to finish roadmap for this position? it sounds ez as fuck.

>>54497937
>Jesus, this market is crazy.
This post is not organic.

>>54498642
>companies created these depts to secure debt...
Yeah that makes a lot sense with all the ESG faggotry.
It's funny / depressing how two people can both be corporate pawns but one is just of slightly more strategic value at a given moment so they get to experience a lifestyle that would otherwise be completely out of reach to them.

>>54500576
Most software devs I know that WFH are basically paid neets anyway

Have you ever walked into a tech department? Those aren't the faces of "starting a family with my 165k salary"

No those are the faces of I just got done fucking a hooker in real life and fucking my anime waifu in VR and now I wanna talk about Pokemon at the age of 35.

>>54497937
lol, I remember all the "quiet quitting" bullshit journos were pushing throughout 2021 and 2022. People were tricked into leaving their cushy tech jobs because they were promised a 20% raise literally anywhere, and now they're all unemployed as we head into a recession. More wealth transfer, simple as.

>>54498277
I thought that tech sec jobs would be a bad pick because as the boomers died out the general population would be more tech savvy to the point of not needing some guy to re-install their printer software or export their microsoft office bullshit so I didnt bother getting into the field. Turns out however that zoomers are regressing back into tech retardation as everything becomes "apps".

>>54498277
>opens malicious email page from chase.inc asking not to redeem
>bonus: uses personal login and password

REEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

>>54497937
relist and half the salary

>>54497937
meanwhile.
Employment just printed a new ATH
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CE16OV

>>54497937
>Soon Mechanical Engineers will be in the “disbelief” stage as they receive job offers far higher than they ever anticipated they could get.
I'll believe that when I see it. Yes I am bitter, could you tell?
>t. Salty ME

>>54501098
>he believes the politicians' lies

>>54501140
official numbers are still less incorrect than whatever muh analysts predict

>>54501155
society is degrading at a rapid pace. you'd have to a fucking idiot to ignore it just because it hasn't flipped like a switch from some late 80s high point to the road.

>>54499598
>I have 4 years in info sec making 78k how do you niggers get paid so much? I know a guy with cissp only making 90k. In central Florida

People are waking up to the meme and realized you retards aren't some magical wizards that know everything, you're just standard IT. That gravy train is over.

>>54499817
>without factual evidence

pop quiz retard: are massive layoffs currently happening? have massive layoffs been happening all year? have massive layoffs been happening since covid?

>>54497937
>tfw finance chad

There are other factor to consider besides just salary. I only make 85k working remotely, but I consider WFH an extra 20k and working autonomously another 20k. Basically, in order for me to even consider another job, I would need like 140k +.

>>54498213
Nigga just stay in if you're this lazy

>>54501049
Tech and healthcare aren't going away and competition will just get tougher. Just look at the IQ trend of the US, and frankly the rest of the world.
I currently work a shit tier job as a restaurant manager and beyond the fact that my staff has gone from exclusively white to 20% white in the last <10 years I also work with a lot of college age people. Many of them intend to go to school for nursing but get filtered hard by chemistry.
I just think it goes to show that certain fields, specifically tech, healthcare, and even finance will be fighting over the scarce brain that's left.
Consider it a white pill if you have an IQ of ~100. I think as long as you choose a field that's promising and will be fighting over brain power you will have job security and a nice salary. The roadmap might be challenging but you can get it done. You wont be in the top 10% but your choices as of right now are either to do that and compete with guys in the 120+ IQ range, work a trade in the 90+ IQ range competing against Juan, Juan, and Juan who work 12 hours straight without a break, or figure something else out entirely.
>>54501155
wasted. inflation is getting worse, you can see it in day to day life and if you attest that the country is adding more jobs than that means inflation is also going to get worse since job growth is a leading indicator of inflation.

>>54497937
Since when did we start taking pseudo anonoymus anecdotal Reddit takes as factual macro certainties? I don't expect a lot from you guys but come on

I've been at my company for 10 years. I probably should leave but I'm making $110k and I'm paranoid about this job market. At the same time I don't want to be too comfortable

>>54501351
Well you have to consider that OP is a giant faggot and probably doesn't even denounce the Talmud

Just work finance, money is the most demanded product on the planet

>>54498650
Kek, anon SIE is the easiest one, keep your chin up and save killing yourself for the CFA. I’m postponing taking it because it’s actually hard as fuck, but it’s the only way to move up.

>>54497937
Good it's long overdue. With a bipartisan push for a return of (some) industrialization and agriculture to the US, as well as an aging and increasingly ill population, the big opportunities are going to be in medical and engineering.

A pullback was to be expected. The SWE market was absurdly hot the past 2 years. My company hired for a decent position and could only get inept retards to apply.

>>54498029
>Meh
The squeal of a frightened redditor kek
>>54498391
I would like to thank all the autists on this site for spreading this meme via wfhg threads and the like. All the normies who got roped into this scam in the last few years are already paying dividends for my entertainment.

>>54501411
>bipartisan

>>54500974
I have a masters degree in the field.
Got first job at top investment bank in NYC As a junior analyst. I had some PoC exploits on my own GitHub page already and I had been been working in general IT as an HP contractor doing desktop support prior.

After 3 years at IB they promoted me to VP. I had built the entire SecOps program basically. Did a ton with SIEM architecture and building out a world class threat detection program across a few different tools that worked Together holistically.

Did a shit ton with NAC and building out that. Dynamic application of ACL’s based on auto profiling of the devices.

Led a lot of the Web app pen tests and internal pen tests.

Built out with python and powershell a security validation framework that automates the simulation of different attack vectors against the layered security stack and ensures there is no drift in prevention and detection.

The rest of the time was spent architecting and enforcing with automation in mind secure Firewall configuration and policy deployment as well as AWS and Azure security related to identity , infra , and CICD pipeline .

I

>>54501217
no
no
no
You have no idea what "massive" means kiddo.

>>54501578
was making 160 k and then job hopped to a Wall Street quant firm for the 275k. I moved out of NY to a lower cost of living state though to work mostly remote.

Basically doing the same shit at quant for almost double the money. I did have to build out their entire vulnerability management program from scratch and build out the entire Security Operations Center from scratch and automate tons of workflows which was exhausting.

My take on security is people think it sounds cool but it changes constantly and you need to be a pseudo expert in multiple IT niches in the first place and that is stressful and hard. Also, I’m an alpha personality not a meek developer pajeet.

I have to get in multiple political battles a year with other executives/managers etc and be an expert in influencing without authority.

I’m not really paid for my technical skills at the end of the day, I’m paid because I’m an expert in determining business risk across different verticals and executing appropriate actions too mitigate those risks with no/minimal impact to business bottom line .
never waste a good tragedy, and there will be plenty of them for you to gaslight senior leadership into paying you
More. Like I said , infra teams will rush to get their assets deployed and working, same with cloud an devs . They will leave multiple holes open for attackers to come in and rip them apart. Active Directory is another shit show that you can be very valuable if you can force WinEng to learn how to secure it better. Buy a tool like Silverfort and. Inject MFA into internal authentications routed through AD and it’s a big win to stop pass the hash etc

The nocoder cope is astronomical sorry you weren’t smart enough to l understand how a pointer works

>>54501578
>>54501614
All I’m getting from this is that you’re the faggot who stops my emails from going to the right people because there’s an attachment

>>54500262
From what I can tell of current state of industry and demand for warm bodies, a few certs, linux knowledge and persistence is enough to get your foot in the door. 50% of any job is gonna be your personality anyway.

>>54497937
amazing, say it with me
sirs redeemed back home! have fun in your new scamcall centre!

>>54500547
Says the faggot who spends all day every day sitting in front of his computer using software

>>54501578
>>54501614
>start out as cyber researcher at ftse100 company
>everyone was too much of a sperg to work with
>dont gel with any colleagues
>end up wfh for covid
>develop no skills
>not invited to any socials
>leave
>spend 12 months at home alone developing the skills I was meant to whilst at that job
>end up cracking a £500k bug bounty
>earnt more in those 13 months than all those sad saps doing the 9-5
I enjoy cyber security but fuck me theres too many autists.

>>54501656
No dude you don't understand, chatgpt can make a Hello World program! It's over for you...

>>54501667
Email gateway security is pivotal considering it is the most direct way for an attacker To breach the 4 walls of an org and try to get a hook into a single internal system before moving laterally and escalating privileges too achieve eventual total domain takeover.

With that being said, unless you are emailing documents that are armed with malicious macro payloads , or executable content , suspicious scripts etc , I don’t see why your emails would be blocked, outside of you doing some fsggot spoofing of headers to change your from field

Main question would be : What the fuck are you trying to do faggot and what is the business use case ?

>>54501704

Kek this. Literally every single, and I mean every single, white collar job now is leveraging multiple pieces of software that have to be developed and maintained by someone.

>>54501732
I have to send excel workbooks with macros embedded to clients, and they send some back, and both directions they get stopped and rejected all the fucking time

>>54501713

My colleagues at first company were awesome and basically “bros “.

Second company they were weird autists that don’t even speak to me. It’s hit or miss but developers are usually worse, especially the math PHD’s that develop the algos.

If you are skilled enough to be cracking bug bounties like that then yes, it makes no sense for you too work a 9 to 5. You can take very expensive contracts or just keep doing bug bounty submissions. I’m admittedly not as smart as you but I do well

>>54498050
Because its the title I am given. Sounds cool so I dont argue
>>54497937
I hope not, Ive been out of work since Nov and havent been looking. Worst case maybe it finally gives me the motivation to start my own company.
>>54498213
There are a lot of companies everywhere not just the DC area

>>54501760
Can you just zip the excel file with a password and send it and the password in the email ? It will bypass the content inspection of whatever tool your shitty security team configured at the email gateway

>>54498050
>t. Faggot whose last and only experience with coding was HTML in highschool

>>54497937
>My friend's company
>150k is well below average pay for 5 years of experience

>>54497937
kek nice cope thread OP
I was laid off from my $200k job last November and had a new $300k job lined up by the end of December.
But by all means, keep coping since you weren't smart enough to make it in FAANG.

Also while infosec is an enriching and can be a well paying career, I am in my early thirties mind you, and everytime I get imposter syndrome I remind myself that there are 22 year olds coding at Facebook, Apple , whatever FAANG making 350-400 k with a year of experience because they “GRINDED leet code “

>>54501842
Funny that this post is above mine. No hate by the way. More power to you. You navigated the system correctly and have a great income.

>>54501578
Ok, thanks for the write up, you’re obviously very experienced.
I have no IT background and don’t even have a degree beyond an associates.
For someone like me what’s the best course of action? I don’t give a shit about making $200k/yr I’d be happy making $75-100k doing less challenging work but remotely so that I could have more control over my living situation.
Can I achieve this with just a 6 month course or do I need to go full send and get a bachelors + certs?

>>54497937
there is a bubble of shit developers in all IT fields, especially date. Mediocre, average jeetcoder, etc.
This has been hit hard recently, and now GPT4+ is showing clearly that average developers HAVE 0 VALUE. But qualified and trained engineers in all fields are still in HIGH DEMAND. There is a clear shortage.

So that's the reality. The entire IT sphere is not "popping", just the bullshit part of it. There is still not enough engineers in circulation with the right skills for all the companies that need them. Especially in Europe. Salaries should increase a lot there, while in the US it might stagnate.

>>54501856
>>54501842
it's called FAGMAN not FAANG.

Any UK anons in infosec? Whats the current state of the industry? Salaries? Guy came into my college not long ago to do a talk about how in demand it is and why we should pursue it but gave zero details on the process by which you would do that. CS degree and then a few certs is my guess but I've heard their really autistic and uncompromising with their requirements and expect years of experience for entry level.

>>54501366
Just apply to new jobs while keeping your current one imo.

>>54501808
Good idea. Would that be the best way to copy all our internal files to myself as well? I want to keep everything from my team

Might as well ask this in the cyber security thread, what is the best VPN out there, or at least the one I should be using to trade crypto on non-US sites with?

>>54497937
What are we to move onto?
What's recession/saturation proof?

>>54501614
This is IT bullshit, not software engineering.

>>54501928
>Meta
>Alphabet
>Microsoft
>Amazon
>Netflix
Where are you getting F from?

>>54498160
Sitting in a windowless room your entire career is not chill

>>54501656
I'm actually looking forward to being to try learning to code, asking the ai how itd do it, then comparing the two to learn. Assuming what it spits out isnt disfunctional shit.

>>54498155
AI anon bro, what do you do exactly (or more precisely)? I am co founder of a nlp/distributed compute startup and always wonder about how advanced we do things compared to others?

>>54501823
yeah, it's that crypto brain rot mentality, where people expect to 5x their income in a decade, when thats completely ridiculous for 99% of people

>>54502427
>Assuming what it spits out isnt disfunctional shit.
by GPT5-6 iterations, code will be well beyond what any average coder can produce (it already kind of is, but I'm kind with you). Only architects and true engineers will remain.
Reconverted maths/physiscs/jeet "Data scientists" will be the first to go, probably starting now. Then average sql/front end only devs, then average "fullstack" developers. By 2027, expect the entire IT "stack" to be clean as fuck

>>54502395
> thinks Meta won't rebrand back to Facebook after the metaverse fiasco

>>54498587
Why do 30yos kill themselves more than every other age group?

>>54497937
I am founder of a tech startup and I can confirm that I received 300 applicants in 1 day for a data engineering job. Guess what: at least 250 bullshit no-skills applicants, 45 okay-ish but not real data engineers, then 5 okay candidates with actual engineering degrees.

The market is fine. It's just that IT is the easiest field to spam when are trying to go from "literally useless" to "I know to do a first thing in a field".

>>54502569
"No future" vibe. Many many people are skillless AND the world inequalities and bullshit you hear and see every day is beyond alienating

>>54502569
Ever make a character in an RPG and realize mid game it sucks so you just make a new one?

>>54498791
>death from drugs

>>54497937
Learn to cope.

>>54501923
>The entire IT sphere is not "popping", just the bullshit part of it.

>>54498610
>https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth
The powers that be have been working a long time to suppress STEM employees.

I hate computer tech and everyone making bank off it since it further progresses the enslavement of mankind so I fully support everyone working in IT earning no more than 60K per year

>>54497937
Lol yeah right. My company has had open recs for months and our pipeline is still empty

Pajeets desperate to find work before their visa expires and they are forced to use the designated streets again

>>54503543
Let’s cap it at $50k

>>54498782
-> >>54497734

>>54502528
Thats fine, I just wanna learn lisp and the stuff useful for vidya bullshit.

>>54499012
data scientists make about the same as swes
if you are a cs major there is literally no point in doing data science

>>54498114
Websites are absolutely not a fucking software, websites are more like printing a fucking cover sheet for a paper document
>not a fucking whitepaper PDF file

t. actual front end developer
captcha: why are you so retarded

>>54503543
I don't know about actually skilled jobs but it has to be some sort of fraud when a fucking web monkey makes over 100k in the US.

Their fault for picking a vanilla CS.

Data science is the meta, and I was smart enough to see it years ago

> Underlying statistics hasn't changed since I left uni
> WFH most of the time, and leave the office at 4-5 pm when I do go in
> Most of the actual number crunching is a joke to perform if you know what you're doing
> These days I feed the results into chatGPT and get it to draft my first report
> Little chance of it being automated away because midwit businesspeople still need an actual human being to hold their hand and talk them through what the data means
> Meanwhile software engineers have to learn new shit constantly, and obsess over a bug they can't fix until 8pm in the office
> Every other variety of engineer of course earns jack shit

>>54505607
I know next to nothing about data science. what type of statistics is used? binomial distributions and that sort of thing? asking because i took statistics in college so data science could be the move

>>54497937
they're leaving out the fact that over half applications are from foreigners and even more are from people who spam apply

>>54498277
its amazing how people can post completely retarded comments like this with no understanding of what a role actually does and get replies

>>54499598
You need to change companies mate. Then again, it depends on what exactly you happen to be doing in infosex.
>>54500761
Same. And the fact my company rejects so many testers upon application due to their lack of writing/social skills has all but allayed any fear I had of redundancy. It may happen in the future, but for now and the mid-term, technically adept folks who can write well and can be personable will not be replaced by machine learning.
And when the time comes where that is a possibility, it still won’t happen because no regulator or government will allow an AI to be held to account for certifying a system as secure.
>”Why were we hacked? SecGPT9 said there were no vulnerabilities present.”
>”hi, I’m from the data regulators office. I have a 6mil fine with your name on it.”
>”B-b-but we-we’re using SecGPT with intuitive aptitude machine learning vision blockchain orchestration!”
>”BEND OVER AND SPREAD ‘EM.”

>>54501578
This is legit cool as fuck anon.

>>54501929
Britbong here. What do you want to do in infosec?

>>54502490
>99% of people
Meh, I went from neet making nothing to working two jobs for over 110k together. My eventual goal is to do at least 250k but it looks like I needs a good company/management position to do that as a customer support rep unless I were to go into a more technical position.

Software engineers will literally code their children's futures to the ground and feel “fulfilled” while doing it KEK look around cities are already dying

>>54505762
AI can reduce the number of jobs without directly replacing anyone by scaling up productivity. I don't think it actually will as companies will just scale up but it's a possibility and "AI can't do my job because of x, y and z" is not how it works.

>>54497937
But I thought people were too lazy and didn't want to work?

>>54499213
how is that valuable at all and how do you even need to scrape real resumes rather than fake it all up
seems like a really shaky footing of information flow to be worth money

>>54505784
Not a clue. Do as little work as possible for the most money I suppose.

Just get a job as a government lawyer. That’s what I did. Pfff

>>54498137
>TS clearance
Get a job working for the government or a contractor. Bonus if you live outside the US: feeding data to an AI would likely violate data geolocation regulations (government data can't be on a server outside the country). It will literally take an act of parliament to have AI replace me.

>>54498179
Are you sure about that? It looks like 20,000 musicians to 325,000 software engineers to me.

>>54502004
Yeah I should but its hard to get over the fear of uncertainty when I've had this comfy job for so long. The benefits are great and it's fully remote

>>54498520
If your kid isn't interested in your chosen career path, it'll be a challenge to keep him invested to the point where he'll do well. I'd argue you should focus on making sure he has hobbies that train his mind and focus on problem solving so he can create his own career.

But really, teach him to code (if you're a developer) so he can be literate in learning about the latest technologies so he can find new opportunities in that path.

>>54501713
What was the bug bounty for?

>>54502596
Can you give an overview of what a good applicant looks like? Also how does the coding challenge look like for a data engineering position?

>>54499734
retention

>>54497937
It's just a shitty economy nothing to do with tech jobs in particular, jobs at fucking grocery stores are getting hundreds of applications there are basically no jobs right now

>>54502528
This is the truth. “Software engineers” can basically be split into two buckets. One bucket are basically dumb cogs that are paid to just literally write the code for boilerplate tasks (almost all web development). AI will easy replace this task. You don’t actually even need AI, you can work this role without even really knowing how to code at all, just copy and paste shit from stack overflow.
The other bucket is actually about engineering. These people work on creating novel solutions and novel systems to solve novel problems. Actually coding is a tiny part of what they do. This role requires a lot of creativity, and cannot be easily replaced by AI.

>>54509993
And there’s definitely still an under supply of people qualified for the second bucket. If you do qualify, you can easily make mid-six figures. See >>54498886

>>54509993
>>54510022
Where do I focus my efforts to become a 2nd bucket guy? I'm new to the field, with little education, but I am a creative, problem solving type
What path should the self taught engineer take to make himself useful?

>>54509993
Do you think that's a good thing though? Profits will remain the same, except now they won't have to redistribute some of the money in terms of costs to keep the meritocratic dream alive. I get that you would want to look down on people like me who fit more in the former category, it feels nice for your ego. But practically speaking, most people in the 2nd category start out by working at jobs from the first. You get rid of those "monkey" jobs, and you have effectively driven out talent from the industry. There's a handful of companies on earth who can afford to spend money on R&D. Those companies already have their bottom line figured out. But that's great, because the "real" engineers can now focus on the "novel" problems? I don't know what kind of novel problems you are talking about. And you're assuming that AI will not be able to come up with creative solution to those problems. That's very hopeful. Once AI is good enough to completely and reliably replace your average code monkey, it won't be long before it's good enough to replace your wizards as well.

>>54497937
Fuck IT cucks I hope they rope

>>54500547
theres a field called entertainment, whole IT revolves around it you fucking retard

>>54498029
>security
>IT
ive been seeing this a lot. you guys should really keep quiet about it.

>>54501732
I know of a specific case where an attacker did all of that to the total of 9 figs of damage in the end all starting with a pdf and a stupid employee.
>>54501667
So yes, I'm not that anon but you're probably exactly the type of retard that needs to not be able to open every email and cause your own job and possibly the whole company's jobs to be lost.

>>54504484
what's the difference between a native application and web application development of they provide the same functionality?

lol you fucking nocoder retards, blaming the "just learn to code bro" meme for your idiocy
if you werent clueless brainlet you would jump into this field atleast 10+ years ago at peaks of internet evolution, if the only reason you are here is because you saw techbros rocking 6 digits then you deserve to fuck off

everyone had enough of your bloat shitting up the whole internet, youre worse than pajeets

>>54497937
Kek, my younger cousin applied to Best Buy and literally couldn't get a job, despite being a 4.0 GPA student in college and having previous work experience. I think everything just looks like shit right now for people looking for any job. Then again, BB looks like they won't last much longer.

With tech, you can be #1 in the world and a few years later be out of business.

>>54510485
voodoo2?

>>54510485
Yeah I remember now.
Shit was based as fuck.
Those tomb raider polygon titties and all of that.
The good shit.

>>54506142
This is pretty much the take of the MD in my division. He’s very bullish on AI/ML, but managed to scare the shit out of folks by badly articulating it.

>>54498029
>there’s an extreme shortage of infosec professionals with 5+ YOE
Stop lying

>>54497937
>senior with 7YOE, never once worked at faang only large Fortune 500 companies in the Midwest, mostly healthcare
>get recruiters hitting me up nonstop for 150k senior positions in the Midwest that require literally 10 hours of work a week
>just accepted my second job, total salary is now nearly 300k between the two straight comp not including benefits
>the bubble is popping!!
It’s not if you’re actually good at engineering and have a good resume. I’m thinking about adding a third job to get over 400k and see how long I can hang out. My main job only pays a little over $110k but i literally only have to do 5 hours of work a week. The bubble is nowhere near bursting, most applicants to positions are completely unqualified.

>>54499734
Because 99% of those applicants are not qualified at all, have no actual experience, are boot camp grads or udemy “grads”, are new grads that went to college to do nothing and graduate without internships and a 2.6gpa, are pajeets that need sponsorship/don’t have a visa, etc. literally no senior dev that has experience in relevant tech stacks has to worry about being unemployed. The only jobs that are hard to get even if you’re qualified are faang positions because the interview process is garbage and has literally 6-7 rounds on top of not being relevant at all to the job. If faang engineers feel like it they can go get $160k jobs at capital one or big healthcare or literally any other big company without even trying.

>>54506486
You may want to do a little research and figure that bit out first.
CRA / Pentest is always busy, but pays well. There are frequently peaks + troughs in the schedule so if you know how to get shit done, you can meet client deadlines and get time to play.
I have a 1.5 day retest next week. Reporting is allowed an additional day. The whole thing will be done in 2 days, so I’m taking the kids to a theme park on Thursday instead.
But really, for the most money possible in exchange for least work? Don’t do security. Get into local government. Become a district councillor, stack it with a county council position, get onto committees, then show up once in a blue moon.
Of course, that sort of behaviour is a small but sizeable part of the reason why this country is such a shit show.

>>54498155
>I'm at a company doing some cool shit with AI tech and I'm happy in the space.
That's some big ups dude. With AI gaining serious traction coupled with the potential threat of Quantum computers, you can recommend to your bosses to explore the possibilities of moving their shits to QAN blockchain. Cheers if this lands you a pay rise.

>>54498737

>>54498091
who is jack

>>54498871
Some argue that hashing SSNs may not be a foolproof way to protect them, as there are ways to crack hashes using advanced techniques like brute force attacks or rainbow tables but I don't really know damn much about stuffs like these.

>>54509077
>But really, teach him to code (if you're a developer) so he can be literate in learning about the latest technologies so he can find new opportunities in that path.
Damn, you're a based chad, bro! I taught my kid how to code in Solidity and JavaScript, and just last week he found this sick blockchain that lets him code in whatever language he wants. Like, you're right, man - just show 'em the ropes and they'll figure it all out themselves.

Not really surprising if even self taughts and bootcampers can code.

>>54509993
Bucket 2 is theoretically what a computer science degree prepares you for.
A good Comp sci degree is literally maybe 20% programming.

>>54511249
Brute force is the antithesis of advanced. It means trying every possible answer until you get the right one. Rainbow tables are basically the same thing except you do all the guesses at once and then store them so you can reuse them instead of having to redo the brute forcing repeatedly.

Brute force is guaranteed to get the correct answer eventually, but for a sufficiently secure hash even a supercomputer will have trouble generating enough guesses within a reasonable timeframe to crack something.

Rainbow tables are easily defeated by salting, which means sticking another (random) string to the thing being hashed and hashing the result. Since a rainbow table would have been created without the salt, it won't be able to find the original value. Usually you have a unique salt per value being hashed and the salts are large (2048 bits being the recommendation last I checked) so even someone who gets access to an unencrypted DB would have to create a rainbow table for every salt, which totally negates the advantage of rainbow tables.

>>54510266
In my case there were strokes of luck involved because a problem came up and I not only proposed the solution but implemented it and currently administrate the solution still, 3 years later. This of course involved a mixture of infrastructure and code which makes it all the more complex. AI isn't able to implement end-to-end solutions for novel problems so build a track record of doing that.

>>54511249
Don't have to sweat over it buddy as there are platforms like platforms like QanPlatform that uses advanced encryption and security features to ensure that data is stored in a tamper-proof and immutable manner, making it much harder for these shirtless homo schizo hackers to compromise the data.

>>54497937
I wouldn't recruit anyone who worked at FAGMAN

>>54511555
Yasss, you're totally right that brute force and rainbow tables can't always crack secure hashes. But like, security should be like, super important when it comes to sensitive info.

As you said, salting is a dope way to enhance security and protect against rainbow table attacks. Also, don't forget to use strong and unique passwords, and to change them up regularly. Plus, multi-factor authentication is like, an extra layer of security that can really help.