/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>57276476
I dont think anyone here ever actually cared more about the "disruptiveness" of crypto than making money
as unfortunate as it is that the optimists were wrong, ultimately were here to make money, so who cares
and anyone who makes it through a cycle should be dispelled of any delusions they had about crypto going in
if you were there for 2017 or 2020-2021 you should know full well by now that crypto is a literal ponzi where youre just trying to offload your bags to the next biggest idiot

he's having a spastic episode because boomers are having a panic attack over the BTFP ending and the RR facility going to 0 at mach speed
a quick reminder that bitcoin is the code for its full node
any "taming" or "getting controlled" shit talk is either total LARP or just tech illiterates talking about shit they know nothing about

26.0 has just released as well, go ahead and try seeing if you find anything about an "exchange traded fund" in there
lol

>>57276641
I don't feel so good...

>>57276476
kikes trying to harness and control that which they do not understand because their boomer minds are dusty spiderwebs

as a maxi idgaf, etf holders can only redeem for fiat and when it comes crashing down a btc etf will not equal 1 btc

>>57276978
>number of bitcoin transactions will dry up
Don't worry, us degens have spent the last year ensuring that's not the case.

>>57276476
kikes aim to take control over crypto, then the next phase will be to make cryptocurrency, some coin, the one world currency.

>>57276578
been in crypto since 2013...
i do not think this. i think the tech is disruptive.
are you sure you understand how crypto works?
>muh ponzi
literally everything is a ponzi if crypto is a ponzi
>buy couch off craigslist
>sell couch for 10% markup
>PONZI!!1
welcome to /biz/

>>57277537
until on chain equity becomes legally legitimised or governments start levying taxes denominated in some crypto currency, crypto is still just a speculative asset in developed countries
its useful for remittances and obtaining dollars in third world shitholes, but beyond that its pretty useless

>but gold is useless too! its use is as a store of value! bitcoin is gold but better because its also a practical unit of account and exchange!
actually I think gold also has very little inherent value today and it persists mostly as a legacy thing, gold bugs are fools

>>57276978
irrelevant opinion from non-dev

>>57277845
nothing has inherent value
go learn what the word 'inherent' means
value is always dynamic

>>57277522
taking control of a piece of open source software is impossible, sorry

>>57277470
the miners will stop

>>57277912
>buys up all the bitcoin to where it's unprofitable to mine more due to no transactions

>>57276476
>screenshot of his own thread
>5/7 posts are his own
Habibi I don't think anyone cares

>>57277109
>uh oh, too many bad people used bitcoins in a bad way, the new "not a crumb to terrorists" bill prohibits selling bitcoins that weren't mined and registered in the USA or held in ETF funds as of 01/01/2027, please contact your nearest blackrock vault for the purchasing options, or move to a turd world country where there are no such restrictions
wwyd?

>>57277894
yeah yeah okay
if you want to get philosophical then I can agree with you but then the idea of value becomes useless. Practically speaking, purely speculative assets dont last.
gold only ever became worth as much as it was because of governments levied taxes denominated in it and issued specie or notes backed by it
today gold sits in vaults and is used in electronics and jewelry and little else
equity is also real in that companies own assets, produce goods and services, etc and you get partial ownership
for retail this means very little and retail may as well choose between crypto or equity to speculate on, but if you own enough equity it means you own the assets and productivity of that company
and again, equity too is legitimised by government because a share is a legal contract which if breached, has legal consequences

there are possibly 2 or 3 ways I could see crypto being legitimised by the state:
1.) taxes are levied in it
2.) smart contracts or tokenised equity are legally binding
(mayyybe) 3.) CBDCs become interoperable with preexisting blockchains

until it becomes legitimised legally, its purely speculative

>>57276476
Nobody cares about the "tech" except clueless STEMlords who wind up losing all their money any way because they lack any common sense and get grifted out of their investments by business savvy charismatic sociopaths

Im in it for the money at the end of the day, so if it pumps my bags than im all for it.

>>57276476
Why the fuck would anyone think its a good idea to let the current economic regulators and players take bitcoin by the dick and fuck it.

Anyone who supported this is a faggot

The whole point of bitcoin was to replace the entire economic system on one ledger.

Congratu-fucking-lations you killed bitcoin

>>57277912
taking control of a piece of natural occurring metal like silver is impossible, sorry

>>57276476
one of the tickets is BRRR
they're literally rubbing bitcointards' faces in it lmao

>>57278132
>thinking the same thing won't happen to any legitimized legal cryptocurrency
ngmi
play stupid games win stupid prizes. did GME not teach you anything?

>>57278132
what the fuck are you even talking about.
the idea of value doesn't become useless just because you don't like the definition of it.
value is determined solely by people. that's it.

The momentum of money in and out of the market dictates the monetary value. The underlying value of bitcoin comes from the white paper and decentralisation.
To me, it seems the biggest concern at the moment will be the monopolisation and centralisation of the miners as mining becomes less profitable.

If the ETFs continue to capture more and more liquidity, this will take even more profits away from miners. Theoretically as these big asset managers capture more of the bitcoin miners, theoretically they may fork it to benefit themselves.

>>57276476
Actually there is a very good reason for Bitcoin-backed banks to exist, issuing their own digital cash currency, redeemable for Bitcoins. Bitcoin itself cannot scale to have every single financial transaction in the world be broadcast to everyone and included in the block chain. There needs to be a secondary level of payment systems which is lighter weight and more efficient. Likewise, the time needed for Bitcoin transactions to finalize will be impractical for medium to large value purchases.

Bitcoin backed banks will solve these problems. They can work like banks did before nationalization of currency. Different banks can have different policies, some more aggressive, some more conservative. Some would be fractional reserve while others may be 100% Bitcoin backed. Interest rates may vary. Cash from some banks may trade at a discount to that from others.

George Selgin has worked out the theory of competitive free banking in detail, and he argues that such a system would be stable, inflation resistant and self-regulating.

I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the “high-powered money” that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash. Most Bitcoin transactions will occur between banks, to settle net transfers. Bitcoin transactions by private individuals will be as rare as… well, as Bitcoin based purchases are today.

>>57278510
why would people choose this over paypal?

>>57277537
Do you see what system you live in? Yes, everything in a Jewish system is a Ponzi. I’m shocked this is considered a controversial statement

>>57278318
Don’t forget about $HODL

>>57278518
Why do you want to use paypal?

>>57277974
why

>>57278518
Because your mom sucks good dick

>>57278549
see
>>57278498
>If the ETFs continue to capture more and more liquidity, this will take even more profits away from miners. Theoretically as these big asset managers capture more of the bitcoin miners, theoretically they may fork it to benefit themselves.

>>57278543
paypal allows me to buy stuff online in a few clicks, doesn't share my credit card details with other people, and it's often convenient to send money to other people, sometimes from other countries
you can build the same on top of bitcoin, but why would it be any better than paypal/venmo/cashapp/...?

>>57276476
anon was right

ABANDON YOUR BAGS, FLEE FOR YOUR LIVESSS

>Buy BTC
>HODL forever
>the jews in glass towers make money off of BTC speculation
>they still can't print a BTC, unlike the dollar or stock shares to pump their ETF
>I make it long term after the market crashes

>>57278791
>they buy so much of the supply it's no longer economically viable for small miners
>miners stop
>network stops transacting cause it's all in blackrock vaults
>but we'll give you a paper io that says you can have some
it's like gold all over again

>>57278132
>gold only ever became worth as much as it was because of governments levied taxes denominated in it and issued specie or notes backed by it
no
gold became valuable because people from various parts of the world desired it
it became the go to method of exchange because of its world wide liquidity (desired on any place on earth)
absolutely nothing to do with taxation

>>57278260
it is, nobody ever said it was possible

>>57278518
paypal fucking sucks and it's permissioned garbage
paypal itself realizes it and pays curve holders for liquidity incentives over its own stablecoin (pyusd)

>>57277984
>buys up all the bitcoin
ok
>to where it's unprofitable to mine
you bought it and the price went up
but nobody is mining it anymore? lol
also the more you buy it, the harder it is to buy more

>>57278843
XMRchads stay winning

>>57278866
the price doesn't go up until they're done buying, they'll just out manipulate the market until they're done accumulating

>>57278866
Yes. That’s what’s happening. People will buy the etf before they buy the bitcoin. So they’re essentially hodling your bitcoin. Doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose of your shitcoin on top of giving institutional Jews the power to manipulate said shitcoins?I thought shitcoin was supposed to defeat the Jew not become them?

>>57278851
They literally supress silver are you fucking kidding

>>57278680
That doesn't make any sense

BTC, like Au, is a Money (store of value), not currency (transactional media), remember that Au has rarely been used as currency (transactional media), poor monies like Ag were used instead.

The value of Money is derived from demand for Store of Value, Money stores value dispersed within the economy by being something that meets the demand for SoV, if I buy something with good SoV properties and high network effect then it will have SoV demand in the future and therefore hold real terms value.

Money can never have intrinsic value, indeed functional demand is DETRIMENTAL to Money, price is a product of aggregate demand, a money having functional use means part of the price (proportional to it's functional demand) will be from functional demand, forcing buyers of Store of Value to pay a functional premium and subjecting them to the risk the functional demand will fall, causing real terms fall in money value independent of demand for SoV. This can be seen in platinum, which on paper appears a fine money, but it's high functional demand dominates it's price rendering it unusable.

Gold is the best natural money precisely because it has little functional demand, BTC improves on this by having no functional use outside of Money (store of value).

BTC frees mankind by providing a cryptographically fixed unit of account. It does not need to, nor even benefit from, being used as currency. BTC can only be acquired through voluntary trade, and as such, forces positive sum gaming. BTC improves systemic economic efficiency simply by being a pure trustless Money.

>>57278051
State is a memetic parasitic, it is wholly incapable of exerting meaningful control over the superorganism Economy, every State that has tried is dead or dying, the successful parasites take great pains to avoid confrontation with Economy as they know it can crush them effortlessly

>>57279602
Incorrect

>>57277537
>>buy couch off craigslist
>>sell couch for 10% markup
>>PONZI!!1

i really need to stop coming here.

>>57276578
DLT will be used - but the point is to benefit the world not the baggies. Of course rich tradfi baggies will ensure they take a cut, but who the fuck knows how we get in on that. Nothing "for the people" that's for damn sure.

Don't forget to look for investments among the implementers and B2C use-cases in the speculative shitstorm that will take off when regulatory fillibusters get wrapped up

>>57276476
>>57276578
>>57276641
>>57276978
>>57277097
>>57277109
>>57277470

Butters have always been in it for the money to dump on the greater fool

Because you cant use butter to transfer money, its too slow, expensive, energy consuming.

Butters just care about number go up

>>57279346
Dullard.

Meaningful protracted market manipulation is impossible, "paper gold" is shiney rock fetishist fantasy driven by misunderstanding futures contracts, gold has performed fine, 45x since '71 while monetary expansion has been 42x, very respectable for something with 2% annual mining inflation. Silver is a poor money, without currency demand for the OG shitcoin it quickly lost all it's money value to superior stores of value like Au and large cap equities

>>57278132
>but then the idea of value becomes useless
Not at all. The only intrinsic value anything has is itself. 1 BTC = 1 BTC, 1 Au oz = 1 Au oz and so on. An ounce of Au buys a ton of wheat now, but if a meteor hits the earth and decimates wheat production will it still buy a ton of wheat? Of course not. Ergo, the value is extrinsic not intrinsic, gold derives it's value from demand for Store of Value, same as BTC, BTC better meets the demand for SoV. This halving marks the inflection point where BTC inflation (~1.7% now) fails well below gold mining inflation (2%), at all future points BTC will only ever be a better and better fixed unit of account and therefore a better and better store of value.

>equity is also real in that companies own assets, produce goods and services, etc and you get partial ownership
AAPL trades at 30 pe, 2/3rds of AAPL's value is from SoV demand. Extrinsic not intrinsic.

>>57276476
selling bitcoin is retarded as fuck, anyone who sells large amounts of bitcoin is a fucking idiot and will greatly regret it in 10+ years. anyway, ETFs are a great step towards regulatory clarity and will be the catalyst towards a golden bull run and more adoption of crypto as a whole.

*LAUGHS LOUDLY IN BSV*

>>57277537
As a rule people who use 'ponzi' have no fucking idea of what a ponzi is.

>>57279819
This post is a ponzi

>>57278843
>they buy so much of the supply
this statement only means we'll have a golden bull run.

>>57278893
retard.
the more they buy the less supply are being sold thus price will increase.
you can't manipulate supply and demand.

>>57279792
thanks chat-gpt

>>57280228
i'll take that as a compliment.

>>57279649
i just used some to buy a bitcoin miner. it was fast and easy and off the radar. and now i will mine more bitcoin to help replace whatever is bought by blackrock. for fun and profit! oh and i also bought a couple of gold coins to lock in my gains without converting to fiat. this felt extra good for some reason.

>>57276476
Why screenshot your own thread and start a new one while your old thread is still up?

>>57278510
>Bitcoin itself cannot scale to have every single financial transaction in the world be broadcast to everyone and included in the block chain
Then replace it. What the fuck is the point of using BTC if you still need to all of the heavy lifting the same way? Just use tokenised gold if you're going to do things that way. The whole point of digital currency is that it negates the need for all of the background shit, which BTC doesn't accomplish.

>>57276578
You sound like a fucking newfag. Crypto IS disruptive, it has literally evolved the internet, i.e. the most valuable thing on the face of the earth. You think this is a bad thing, but this was literally the point of bitcoin the entire time. Is gold cucked now because of institutions? Yes, because there's no way to verify any of the transactions done on Gold. Bitcoin was created to change that, and the big boys took the bait. You don't even get it retard, this is the canary in their coal mine. The EXACT moment they slip up, and start pulling their jewish tricks and start trying to trade more paper btc than actual or vice versa, it's literally over for them. The public ledger was created for this EXACT purpose you retard.

>>57276978
kikes wrote this article

>>57276476
Fact is they can't tame crypto. They can try but new innovation leaves them in the dust year by year. In short, make us rich and suck our balls is the general crypto enthusiast outlook™.

>>57277845
Jesus Christ I’ve never read something so ignorant said with such confidence before in my life. You must be from Reddit.

>>57281648
>>57279649
Does anyone actually believe the fees on final settlement are too high based on their personal experience as a user, or do you just have more faith in state force than human innovation?

>>57278132
The state's opinion on how much a bitcoin should be worth is irrelevant to the price. Is cocaine free just because the government makes it illegal? No, that makes it more expensive, because people will pay extra for sellers to overcome the regulatory hassle. Everyone in congress knows the going rate of a gram of cocaine, and they know how much one bitcoin costs. Don't try to use a politician's public comments to convince me they're any less greedy to hoard bitcoin than I am. You're a sucker if you actually believe the government has no demand for bitcoin.

>>57281678
>ID fax
No cap fr. Bro spittin facts.

>>57276476
>institutions bend the knee to Bitcoin, introduce a 1:1 BTC backed ETF
>hurr gurr bitcoiners lost! institutions taking over!
fuck outta here, doughball

>>57282308
yeah you're the one in control here

>>57276476
Test

Every single person buying bitcoin for fiat is hoping to at some point exchange it for more fiat

>>57276978
at least transactions drying up would solve the mempool problem kek
cool digital gold bro

>>57281648
they hated him because he spoke the truth

>>57279602
what if bitcoin could do all that and not be a slow expensive to use piece of shit

>>57276578
I don't trust government or banks, I care a lot about crypto and have never sold any since I started buying in 2017
Fuck your money grabbing attitude, you're as bad as the boomers who put you in this situation in the first place

>>57276476
That's because these people aren't using or want btc to "defeat institutions". They just want money. It's really that simple anon

>>57283068
No, fiat is mere transactional media, people trade goods/labor/currency for Store of Value because they know people in the future will also wish to trade goods/labor/currency for SoV. BTC accomplishes this fundamental economic function better than anything we've had before, fixed in supply, transparent in ownership, weightless, no counterparty risk, trustless transactions and trustless proof of ownership etc etc etc.

>>57276578
I dont care about the disruptiveness anymore.
The US is no longer worth saving. I’m only looking to extract as much value as I can from the faggot-machine-9000 as possible before it collapses.
Once it does collapse, I’m just going to start shooting.

>>57276578
BTC will be used to back the CBDC.
Paper Dollars issued in the future will be backed by Bitcoin.

>In Satoshis payable to the bearer on demand

>>57283342
>$shitcoin is a better currency!
Irrelevant. Store of Value is the juicy systemic economic value, being a better currency doesn't make something a better SoV. Network effect guarantees BTC's continued domination. Further, even if the first successful synthetic Money could be used as currency it wouldn't be used as currency as high quality SoV are rarely used as transactional media.

>>57283832
and blackrock will own the entire supply after forking you from it

>>57276578
>I dont think anyone here ever actually cared more about the "disruptiveness" of crypto than making money
if this is true then why have i kept 90% of my assets on the blockchain rather than in a bank for the last 5 years? do i need cash? sure sometimes, but when i don't i park it in crypto because I'd rather have full control over my finances than trusting a bank

>>57283914
your entire thesis is that the greater fool game will continue forever, for no other the reason than trust me bro

>>57276476
Never did care.

>>57285113
No, my thesis is that something will be used as a Store of Value, as this is a fundamental economic demand, and BTC meets this demand better than the alternatives.

Throughout history, universally across the globe, something as filled this niche. This has been gold when available, as gold possess physical properties that naturally meet SoV demand, but it's always been the SoV properties (finite, verifiable, lacking strong functional demand and so on) that have been in demand, not gold itself, indeed when gold has not been available other goods filled this niche, including synthetic SoV like Rai stones or wampum.

BTC is the first synthetic SoV that outperforms gold on all meaningful metrics, BTC will continue to gain SoV marketshare as it better meets SoV demand.

>>57285397
is there a point at which the cost of moving any amount of bitcoin becomes so prohibitively expensive that it is no longer "better than the alternatives" - why isn't BCH for example better suited? this all feels like a recipe for disaster to me

>>57285975
>is there a point at which the cost of moving any amount of bitcoin becomes so prohibitively expensive that it is no longer "better than the alternatives"
What's the cost to securely move 20 kilos of gold cross country? Fees can be quite high and still be head and shoulders better than the alternatives, and it's software, it will evolve, larger blocks will almost certainly be the solution, small blockers were never "small blocks forever" just that it wasn't time yet

>why isn't $shitcoin for example better suited?
Network effect. Not only was BTC first, but everything after BTC is tainted by speculators desperate for "da next bitcoin!", BTC's lead grows every day, the window for real competition closed after BTC reached a hundred million in mcap

>>57286210
why spend all the time on lightning if the answer was increasing the blocksize this whole time?
lmao

>>57279769
>1 BTC = 1 BTC
until you send it

imagine the smell

>>57278720
Hahaahahaha

so what will bitcoin maxxis do now that blackrock won?

>>57276476
> globohomo finance department takes control over BTC
Can just move to another token lol. Humans can just get enough consensus to turn blackrocks "takeover" into one of their biggest liabilities leaving them as bagholders. Theyre trying for an ETH ETF, just sell the news on that one then move onto the next chain, or ya know, use one thats not shit, has privacy, grass roots community.

>>57276476
Yes he's right. BTC was supposed to be an alternative to the legacy finance system, it has failed in that regard.

The use case went from digital cash to muh digital gold / settlement layer. The fact is, without legacy finance, it would be something only nerds use, as was the case originally.

>>57283068
...in order to exchange the fiat (or bitcoin) to actual assets (like food or shelter)

>>57276476
The plan all along was to dump our bags on normies and institutions and flip the switch on monero. Fuck bitcoin. It's always sucked. It's just our Trojan horse. Monero are the armed to the teeth soldiers waiting inside to slaughter the jew banking cartel.