/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>5750167
Und wie regelst du das so?

>>5750167
>actually paying taxes

Literally everyone is talking about BZC right now faggot.

>>5750167
Go to Switzerland and cash out there. Just like everybody in Munich does.

don't you just have to pay taxes on the profits once you cash out

>>5750215
>actually paying taxes

You DO NOT fuck with the Finanzamt. There are 10x more powerful than the IRS.

IRS = Girl Scouts

Finanzamt = DEVGRU

Sorry Hans, we should have fought on your side.

>>5750167
wieso zahlst du denn doppelt steuern auf den gewinn, dein Geld oder die Geldanlage ist doch noch im Verkehr wie du selbst sagst. Erst wenn du gewinne auszahlst musst du auch Steuern zahlen. Wie kommen den noch die 42% dazu? Tradest du Hauptberuflich oder ist das allg. dein Steuersatz?
Mach kein Drama draus und zahl keine Steuern xD

>>5750312
Einkommenssteuer am Schluss

>>5750167
are you dumb? you buy 5k btc and no taxes during exchanging since you never made profit in euros. When you cash out you try to find someone who pays you cash and then buy a gold watch from it. That way you dont pay tax

>>5750446
I need the money on my bank account because I want to invest it in stocks and funds.

No way around taxes, but after calculating it I found out that from the 140k gains that I would made I would only recieve 63k.

Fuck this country.

>Erfolgt hingegen keine zinstragende Veranlagung, sind Kryptowährungen als Spekulationsgeschäft gemäß § 31 EStG dann steuerrelevant, wenn der Zeitraum zwischen Anschaffung und Veräußerung nicht mehr als ein Jahr beträgt. Bei unentgeltlich erworbenen Wirtschaftsgütern ist auf den Anschaffungszeitpunkt des Rechtsvorgängers abzustellen. Der Handel zwischen Kryptowährungen ist ebenso wie der Eintausch von virtuellen Währungen gegen Euro als Tauschvorgang anzusehen. Beim Tausch von Wirtschaftsgütern liegen jeweils eine Anschaffung und eine Veräußerung vor. Als Veräußerungspreis (des hingegebenen Wirtschaftsgutes) sowie als Anschaffungskosten (des erworbenen Wirtschaftsgutes) ist dabei der gemeine Wert (auch Verkehrswert oder Einzelveräußerungswert genannt) des jeweils hingegebenen Wirtschaftsgutes anzusehen (vgl. § 6 Z 14 lit. a EStG). Wird in einem „virtual wallet“ eine Kryptowährung gehalten, welche zu unterschiedlichen Zeitpunkten sowie uU zu unterschiedlichen Tageskursen angeschafft wurde, ist im Falle eines Tausches („Verkauf“) für das Vorliegen eines Spekulationsgeschäfts sowie die Höhe möglicher Spekulationseinkünfte entscheidend, welche dieser jeweiligen „Tranche“ einer solchen Kryptowährung verkauft wird. Dabei kann der Steuerpflichtige eine beliebige Zuordnung vornehmen, wenn der Bestand der jeweiligen angeschafften Kryptowährung hinsichtlich Anschaffungszeitpunkt und Anschaffungskosten lückenlos dokumentiert ist; ist dies nicht der Fall, sind die jeweils ältesten einer Kryptowährung als zuerst verkauft anzusehen (FIFO-Methode).

Leck mich doch am Arsch
wie soll man denn das alles dokumentieren?
reicht nicht steuer bei crypto->euro am schluss, wie wollen die denn prüfen ob du da noch mit cryptos gehandelt hast naja allerdings hab ich auf binance etc meinen irchtigen namen benutzt... fuck)

>>5750446

exactly. you sell maybe 5-10% below market value to somebody who pays cash or gold.

or you hodl for one year. no taxes then.

>>5750522
but you have to hold one single crypto for a year, right? or just cryptos in general

>>5750522
>or you hodl for one year. no taxes then.

Nope, only if you, lets say, buy BTC, hodl it for one year and do NOTHING with it.

Otherwise, income tax. (around 40% if you cash out more than 50k)

And every trade is taxable, even crypto->crypto trades.

What's the 42% number? 25% sounds like capital gains, yeah it's high but what is 42%?

>>5750542

Technically, yes. But do you really think the Finanzamt is able to track your entire crypto trade-history? Don't you think they are more than happy that you freely offer to pay taxes at all?

>>5750542
Following scenario:

BTC -------> REQ(no tax)

(1 year after) REQ ------->EUR(no tax)

Is that right?

>>5750596
Income Tax

Income over 9k a year has to pay it.

40 % is the maximum if you earn more than 50k a year.

>>5750582

No Einkommensteuer. Abgeltungssteuer. It's a fixed 25% + Kirchensteuer + Solidaritätszuschlag. Yes, the Ossis get money for your crypto trading.

https://www.bitwala.com/

>>5750665
I am an Ossi and I don't profit from that so whatever

Same goes for the fucking church tax

So it's 25 % + 6 % (Kirchensteuer) + 2 % (Soli)

33 % ?

Dumb question probably, but what can the Fianzamt actually do to check whether you just held btc or traded cryptos. Isn't the entire point of cryptos that they allow anonymous trade. Unless they directly ask for trading history from altcoin exchanges, but for that they would have to know that you were on them in the first place right

>>5750744
They'd probably ask the exchanges for information about you.
And the exchanges WILL cooperate obviously.
Also, crypto can be tracked and in the future the Finanzamt will be only more competent at it.

Not to mention that even if you trick them, if they figure out in the future that you didn't pay taxes you're gonna get assraped 5 years later or something.

>>5750744
They will just ask the exchanges for the trading history of all German citizens/residents and users with a German IP. They can also find your IP address relayed on the Bitcoin blockchain.

>>5750167
Move to Austria, Luxembourg or East Belgium?

>>5750815
>you're gonna get assraped 5 years

Not really, the Verjaehrungsfrist is 3 years.

i think australia is worse

>>5750815
Do you really think a shitty korean/chinese/* exchange will care once German fags are knocking at their door and ask if you could please share private user infos?

>>5750167
Don't whine.
France is taxed at 62% if you make cash out more than 150k euros.
Literal soviet country.

>>5750661
>40 % is the maximum if you earn more than 50k a year.
Oh my God. People making 50k/year pay 40% in taxes? Please tell me that's the marginal rate at the very least.

>>5750880
>62%

>>5750888
Dude, it blew my mind as well.

Might as well not even bother working if you earn more than 50k, it's insane.

>>5750888
>>5750932
such is life in europe

i made a tax report on my crypto for germany using cointracking.info. it only told me to pay 25 percent. so calm down.

>>5750977
You guys need to put a stop to this. It's criminal.

>>5751056
Did you also trade crypto for crypto? Several times?

>>5751124
yeah thats why. a few xrp trades in mid 2017. i can post screens in a sec if you want

>>5751056
>25 percent

That's just for capital gains. You also need to add your income tax rate. Which is maximum 45%.

>>5750661
Well, at least an ambulance ride doesn't cost you an arm and a leg.

>>5751171
no. cointracking would have shown it then. they have a german team. if it is not deducted on the tax report where else?

>>5750877
They don't care because they'll just ban German users and lock their funds forever like Bitfinex to Americans.

>>5750977
I wouldn't really mind being tax raped if the money was well managed behind but it goes in large part to pay a legion of civil "servant" (half are completely useless), immigrants and politics lifestyle.

>>5750167
S O C I A L I S T P A R A D I S E

gotta fund Ahmed to replace you, goy.

>>5751217
Yup, in case I try to kms due to losing half my cryptogains.

Thank u germany!!!!

>>5751253

Yup, same.

I'd be willing to pay 25 % taxes on the final cashout sum if it was handled well.

But it isn't, and I have to pay even more.

It's horseshit.

>>5751314
if they scam me by taking more than half ill be off to new zealand. only cashed out 10 percent to test them anyway.

Does anyone know how much tax you have to pay in the Netherlands on crypto?

Hey. I was wondering if you have any thoughts on this group? https://discord.gg/MW8NuYm

>>5751364
lmao, nigger. There was a NEET on twitter from Germany that took welfare and used to trade cryptos. After he managed to cash out $500k they taxed 90% of it. They will fuck you up.

Hold for 1 year and cash out tax free.
What am I missing? If you're desperate for the cash, get a loan out and pay it off in 1 year. Gotta be cheaper than paying tax

>>5750977
Not so fast boyo...
Portugal Italy Malta masterrace 0% taxes on crypto

>>5750167
Become dutch, we only have to pay 1.2% as part of our savings

>>5751421
>Hold for 1 year and cash out tax free.

In Germany that only applies to real estate.

>>5751426
>Portugal
UK bro here looking to move to there to cash out my stack eventually.

>>5751482
Real estate? What are you on about. There was a detailed post about it on readit the other day by a tax advisor

>>5751414
they should try me. ill be out in 2 months if they pull that.

>Die Veräußerung von Kryptowährungen ist dann steuerpflichtig, wenn die Anschaffung und Veräußerung innerhalb eines Jahres erfolgt. Hier findet der § 23 EStG Anwendung, welcher auch bei Immobilien greift. Das nennt sich das private Veräußerungsgeschäft. Dieses private Veräußerungsgeschäft ist dann steuerpflichtig, wenn also zwischen Anschaffung und Veräußerung weniger als ein Jahr liegt. Des Weiteren muss die Freigrenze von 600 € überschritten werden. Bei der Freigrenze gilt, wenn sie überschritten wird, dann fällt sie weg. Das heißt, im Unterschied zum Freibetrag ist bei 601 € nicht 1 € steuerpflichtig, sondern bei der Freigrenze 601 €.

>>5750167
>unironically paying taxes
>taxes will fund refugees and degeneracy
fick dich OP

>>5751514
link pls

>>5751542
>Steuerfrei hingegen ist die Veräußerung, wenn zwischen Anschaffung und Verkauf mindestens ein Jahr vergangen ist (365 Tage zwischen Anschaffung und Veräußerung). Das heißt, dass hier also die eigenen Aufzeichnungen eine große Rolle spielen. Gegenüber dem Finanzamt ist man hier in der Nachweis und Mitwirkungspflicht. Daher sollten die wichtigsten Belege immer aufbewahrt und vorgehalten werden.

Sollte man aber wie oben erwähnt Zinsen aus der Kryptowährung erwirtschaften, dann erhöht sich der Zeitraum theoretisch auf 10 Jahre, da das Wirtschaftsgut aus als Einkunftsquelle gedient hat.

>>5751421
That only applies if you buy a coin, hold for one year and do NOTHING with it.

If you daytrade with BTC or just buy another coin, you're already fucked.

And you WILL HAVE TO PAY INCOME TAX regardless if you cash out more than 9k a year.

Was bedeutet das für wenn wenn ich z.B. 10.000€ bitcoins auf bitcoin.de verkaufe.
Muss ich dann darauf 25% Steuern zahlen?
Wo muss ich das angeben oder wie soll das Finanzamt das merken?

You only pay taxes if you make gains with the trade. When finally cashing out altcoin->BTC-> fiat, you only pay taxes on BTC->fiat since the altcoin->BTC trade is not done to make profit.

>>5751571
>Ergänzung: Auf vielfachen Hinweis, die Spekulationsfrist für Aktien wurde aufgehoben, hier gilt die Kapitalertragsteuer. Jedoch sind Bitcoin und andere Kryptowährungen Wirtschaftsgüter und keine Aktien, daher findet § 20 EStG keine Anwendung und die Spekulationsfrist bleibt bestehen bzw. führt zur Steuerfreiheit!

In Hong Kong you can buy and sell BTC anonymously for a 5% premium in person

>>5751594
>Ja, auch wenn die Veräußerung steuerfrei ist, sollte eine Anlage SO ausgefüllt werden. Das ist deswegen der Fall, da die Feststellung der Steuerfreiheit am besten durch das Finanzamt erfolgt. Nicht durch den Steuerpflichtigen. Im Grunde also einfach Einnahmen minus Ausgaben und dann Anschaffungs- und Veräußerungszeitpunkt angeben.

>Anmerkung: Grundsätzlich gilt keine Erklärungspflicht nach einem Jahr. Es ist jedoch ratsam, dass dies trotzdem erklärt wird. Vor allem, da Steuerhinterziehung bis zu 10 Jahre verfolgt werden kann. Sollte man sich bei der 1 Jahresfrist verrechnen oder sich die Gesetzeslage ändern, dann hat man hier den Vorteil das die bereits steuerfrei erklärten Gewinne grundsätzlich nicht mehr geändert werden können.

tl:dr ihr seid alle duhm und such auf nem mongolischen Korbmacher Forum nach legitimen Antworten

>>5751582
>hold for one year and do NOTHING with it.
So do that then. What's so hard about that?
Like I said, if you need the cash get a loan then pay it off after 1 year. 6% loan is cheaper than any tax

>>5751584
You need to prove the Finanzamt how you obtained the 10k in Bitcoin. You either show them trading logs or receipts.

>>5751640
Because I bought BTC and traded it for altcoins in under a year because I didn't knew about that.

Now, if I hold that altcoin for a year and trade back to BTC and hold THAT for a year, it doesn't even matter.

>>5750815
>A non-european exchange is gonna give a fuck about requests from the failed state of Germany

You don't seriously think Binance is gonna do anything right?

>>5751645
but how are they know i earned 10.000€?
I mean..how do they know it will be on my bank account? I can´t imagine they check every persons bank account?! Do they?

>>5751715
>binance

Too bad I used bittrex so I am fucked.

>>5751743
t. Hoeneß

>mgw ich reich werde ohne je gearbeitet zu haben
>mgw ich nur mein Pflegegeld (Autismus bux) investiere und nicht Geld für das ich hart arbeite

>tl;dr

>Buy 1 BTC in January 2017
>Don't trade anything with it
>Sell this 1 BTC in Febuary 2018
>You "'''"only'''""" have to pay income tax

Is this correct?

>>5751743
The bank is legally forced to tell the Finanzamt if you deposited 10k on your bank account. Sometimes they may even report if your deposit less.

>>5751777
10.000€ could be a gift from someone?
It is not that much money which will get the attention of the finanzamt

Do Americans have it better or worse than you Hans?
Trumps Tax plan makes the tax brackets simplified, which firstly means that there are now three brackets instead of seven:
>12%
>25%
>33%
Let's take the smallest bracket which is $0-$37,500 (individual filer because none of you are married). Then let's add in your dirty fucking neetbux (SSDI/SSI) and understand how much you can make in a year before taking penalties on your GIBs. <$25,000 is what you can have in a year before taking up to 50% penalties with half of your yearly amount halved (1/2) added to that total x/$25,000. This means that you will be able to recognize a variable of $17,000-$20,000 before receiving GIB penalties. From here, we refer back to Trumps tax bracket of 12%, and note that Long Term Capital Gains Tax is 0% rate. The Short Term Capital Gains Tax is 10%. So Theoretically you should be able to profit A) ~$20,000 in long term holds, or B) ~$20,000 (-10%) in short term trading.
The average neet will be able to make approximately ~$18,000-$20,000 in America before being penalized and his tendies being retracted/deducted.

>>5751778
Nigga, they will literally put you in jail if you take welfare and trade crypto with it. You need to report that you have assets.

>>5751794
Buy it in Bratwürste and send them yourself.

>>5751779
if you earn more than 9k that year, yes

>>5751808
Der hat es grad mehr oder weniger gemacht.

>>5751779


NO income tax after one year of hodling!

"Privates Veräußerungsgeschäft dar, für das eine so genannte Spekulationsfrist von einem Jahr gilt"

>>5751856

NO.

"Liegen zwischen dem Kauf und dem Verkauf weniger als ein Jahr, müssen Sie die Spekulationsgewinne in der Einkommensteuererklärung auf der Anlage SO angeben. Liegt mehr als ein Jahr zwischen dem Kauf und dem Verkauf, wird der Handel nicht besteuert."

>>5751867
So even if I traded crypto several times, if I trade my altcoins for BTC and hold that BTC for atleast a year, I do NOT pay income tax?

I swear I've read that I have to pay it.

>>5751857
Enjoy your stay in JVA cuck.

>>5750167
1 Jahr halten = Steuerfrei

>>5751906
We have IDs here

>>5750498
Just go to a random EU country and cash out there after you make an bank account , just pay the local tax here in BG you just pay 10%incom tax and you are fine.

>>5750498
Hey, those refugees gotta get paid somehow

>Earn 5k EUR
>Pay 2.5k EUR taxes
>Invest your 2.5k EUR
>Pay 34% taxes on profits

If it was up to me, all NEETs and other leeches would have already been turned into soap

>>5751808
Das Pflegeld (ca. 545€) geht auf das Konto meines arbeitenden Vaters, der mir dann jeden Monat 500€ überweist.

Ich denke ich bin sicher.

>>5751918

This.

Following scenario:

In 2/1/2018 1 ETH is worth €1000

You buy $1000 worth of BTC and buy 1 ETH.

You hold that 1 ETH until 3/1/2019 and one ETH is then worth €2000.

Then once you sell that ETH you pay 0% tax and €2000 will be in your bank account with the blessing of the Finanzamt.

>>5751982
richtiger Jude uezs

Whats wrong Hans? How else is Muhammad going to feed his 7 children.

>>5750302
Yeah, you guys need that money to buy refugees houses and give them €1k a week paychecks

>>5750302
Explain, I'm curious.

>>5751794

It could, but you have to declare the gift itself. And from whom you got the gift.

Maybe no one will care about it and just accept it. But if they don't, you're fucked.

>>5751982
Once you cash out they will ask how you could afford the coins. They will fuck you up and make a legal example out of you, especially since you are taking welfare. They will definitely throw you in jail for welfare abuse and tax evasion.

So is there any reason you can't move to a low tax country long enough that you're not considered a tax resident of socialist paradise?

>>5752023
i have two family members working at the bank I use.
I will just ask them how the report of the income to the finanzamt is working.
i wonder if it is fully automatically or someone need to "hit the button" if they see larger amounts on money incoming.

>>5751897

No, you only pay 25% taxes for the gains for each altcoin transaction.

Let's provide an example here:

- You buy 1 ETH for 1000€. Fine. No gain, no tax.
- You trade this 1 ETH for e.g. 10000 Altcoins. No gain here. No tax.
- Now you sell those 10000 for 2 ETH when ETH is only worth 500€. You gained 1 ETH or 500€ - you pay 125€ tax.
- Now you hold those 2 ETH for 1 year and 1 day and they are now worth 10 million Euros.

You trade them for Euros. Fine. NO TAX because holding for more than 1 year.

>>5752080
25% would be Abgeltungsteuer for stocks, but crypto is different -> 40%

>>5752080
What the fuck

This is seriously the opposite of what I've read yesterday. But that would be a good thing if you were right.

Fuck it, I'm gonna go to a Steuerberater or an Anwalt over the next months and ask him specifically about my situation.

Not that I don't believe you, but just to be sure.

>>5752042
>"Wie kamen sie an das Geld um Kryptowährungen zu kaufen?"
>"M-Mein Papa gibt mir monatlich 500€ Taschengeld w-weil ich ein guter Bube bin."

Was soll schief gehen?

>>5752075
tell us what they replied

>>5750167
Gotta pay for all the shitskins you let in to rape your wives and daughters somehow.

>>5752080
>>5752127
>>5752166

https://www.bitcoinmag.de/bitcoin-handel/Bitcoin-Altcoin-steuererklaerung-steuer-steuerrecht-steuerfrei-veraeusserungsgeschaeft-Bitcoinrecht/a-106#1-situation-in-deutschland-fr-privatanleger

Just look there. Hold them for a year > No tax;

/close

>>5752243
whiter than you muhammed

>>5752177
Does it matter if I bought the crypto with a loan?

>>5752166
He is wrong. If you do trade on assets which you have not yet paid the taxes for, you're essentially trading with a bigger stack than you should have. Thus everything will be taxed. Meaning :

You buy 1 ETH and buy 10000 Altcoins,
Sell those now you have 2 ETH and made 500 € profit, you will now have to pay taxes on the 1 ETH of profit (25 % of 500 = 125 €).
It doesn't matter if you hold or not, but you're gonna pay the taxes on that 25 %.
Now if that 2 ETH did a 10000% increase, your taxes would also get a 10000% increase.

>>5752127

You are right. Each gain through a trade is Einkommen and is taxed with your personal Einkommen-Steuersatz.

That's why (legal) daytrading is complete idiocy for Germans. Just invest some money in a promising portfolio and wait for one year.

>>5751993
This, just get a good Steuerberater who knows his shit and you're good

>>5752298
>>5752316

So I am fucked indeed.

>>5752298

That's clearly wrong because you could simply cash out those 2 ETH (and pay taxes) and reinvest.

>>5752370
>So I am fucked indeed

If you day trade then yea.

If you HODL, then no.

>>5752399
So, just to make sure that my peabrain understands this:

I bought BTC worth 5k bucks.
I traded said BTC for altcoins on the same day.
I hold these altcoins for 1 or 2 years.
I trade them for BTCs again because I want to cash out.
I hold these BTCs for one year.

I have to pay at least 25 % on the profit that I made with the altcoins.
But I do not have to pay income tax because I held the BTC that I sell for one year.

Am I correct?

>>5752384
Yes you COULD but you didn't and that's where the finanzamt will screw you over. That's how I know these fuckers, but I'm no expert on the topic so I might be wrong.
Would be pretty good for me as I made all my gains on REQ and could quite comfortably hold it till december this year and get 0 % but I really don't think this is how it works.

I live in Canada and our taxes are not that bad.

It's like 24% you have to pay if you cash out.

Literally nothing.

Business owners pay way more here.

>>5751063
>>5751253
>>5750977
Socialism is a complete fucking joke.

I can't believe people defend this shit.

The vast majority of government "services" can be privatized successfully.

I mean switzerland does it and they are extremely successful.

Burger here. Let's say I buy 0.1 BTC when it's at $3000. I then buy 0x with that BTC. Since the time I bought BTC, it has went up to $4000, so I put $4000 into 0x. At 11:59 pm on Dec. 31st, my investment from 0x went up from $4000 to $8000. Into 2018, I'm still holding 0x and haven't cashed out.

1. Since I have not cashed out, do I have to report this?
2. If I do, do I have to pay taxes on JUST the $1000 profit from the time I bought 0x with BTC?
3. Do I ALSO have to pay taxes for the $4000 profit I made from 0x up until the end of the year?

Looking for honest answers please.

>>5752197
ok I asked a family member who is working for "volksbank".
the bank itself does report only interest income ( zinserträge ) automatically to the finanzamt.
income from your regular work is being reported by the company.

"other" income will not be reported automatically to the finanzamt but they have a "system" which find abnormalities which will proofed by the bank people.
he said if the amounts will be different, and the time between the receivement will be different i could happen that no one will recognize.
if something is recognized, you need to explain to the bank and then they decide if they report it ot finanzamt. ( if you can proof for example a gift from you grandma they wont report ) if you have shady proofs they will report it and if they do you get in contact directly with finanzamt..that how i understood.

>>5750167
In Germany you pay 0% tax if you hold more than year.

I love how cryptos has turned everyone into anti-tax libertarians.

Love you guys.

>>5752459
blease resbond i need verification that I understood this correctly or not

Wie läuft es dann ab mit Cryptos wie Ark, wo man noch Einheiten vom Delegierten bekomme? Zählt es dann als Dividende? Bin etwas besorgt dass es deswegen nach einem Jahr hodl immer noch versteuert wird.

Außerdem hab ich bei der Arbeitslosengeldverlängerung nicht angegeben dass ich 5k da rein gesteckt habe. Ich werde zwar nicht mehr verlängern, aber ich glaube ich bin trotzdem gearscht.

>>5752660
>Arbeitslosengeldverlängerung nicht angegeben dass ich 5k da rein gesteckt habe

You are fucked beyond comprehension. Pray that they will only fine you and put you on probation and not in jail for tax evasion and welfare abuse.

>>5751426
I'm fucking sure that if the government saw a 1M€+ transaction to your bank they would surely want a piece of the pie my friend, even if you claimed it came from virtual fake money.

>>5751493
Uk fag

>>5752571
it also gave you roads.
that's the most I have to say about the US.
because in europe police doesn't kill us and we have free healthcare.

get fucked burgers

>>5752736
Ask questions yes, take a money of that pie? Always depends on the country. In Ukraine we have 0 % on crypto tax no matter the amount of money, just have to prove it comes from there.

Danke
t. Mohammad

>>5752534
It's modern serfdom

>>5752660
ark ist sowieso nichts wert du vernebelter arkie

>>5751867
^^^^ this

End of. If you pay tax you're a retard

>being anything other than a non dom british citizen who trades through an offshore trust in jersey

>>5750167
> 42% and 25% on top of that
Klasse wiederholen bitte
You only have to pay 25% you schmuck
It's still way cheaper than in France for example or the majority of Europe

>>5752709
Well, fuck. Maybe they will forget about it. I don't mean to cash out for another few years and I won't apply for neetbux anymore.

>>5752709
>>5752399
>MUH JAIL
>THEY'LL PUT YOU IN JAIL
Fuck off, they don't care

>>5752298
I don't think that's true because you don't have to cash out part of your crypto stack to pay taxes. You pay taxes with fiat, which could also come from a job or any other non-crypto income.

>>5752823
100 Euro Ende des Jahres.

>>5752790
I know in Portugal it's 0% aswell. But I never trust the media. Would need to talk with an accountant to go over the laws.

There are jews in Portugal aswell.

>>5752829
How do you technically hold for a year though if you have to end up trading back to BTC/ETH/LTC anyways? Doesn't that technically remove the year-long status of your "hold"?

>>5752787
>free healthcare.
It's hilarious that you brainwashed idiots ACTUALLY believe this.

All you have is a violent government monopoly on healthcare, high prices and stagnation in innovation.

Also don't give me that "USA HAS FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE" bullshit.

>>5750858
For Steuerschulden it's 4 years, IIRC.

ffs
every trade in crypto is taxable unless you hodl at least 1 year
if not: 0% bis spitzensteuersatz je nach profit

>>5752933
I pay nothing when I go to the doctor. Got a nose surgery for 0.
Yeah, I pay 1/3 for my OCD medication, but still.

>>5752931
Show that you've held the BTC for 1 year without touching it then cash out = no tax
Fucking as simple as that.

>>5750167
BTC -> FIAT ATM. Problem solved!

>>5750167
>eu gesetzt trumpft de gesetzt
https://luxtimes.lu/archives/9449-top-eu-court-rules-bitcoin-exchange-tax-free-in-europe

>>5753001
maybe works with your fucking pocket money. in western countries you have to explain where you suddenly get that 500k€ that you buy your flat with

Well someone has to pay for Abdul and his buddies.

>>5752954
>I pay nothing when I go to the doctor.
You pay taxes for it you fucking idiot.
Who cares if you don't pay shit when you actually go there.
You've already paid for it through taxes and the decrease in living standards that comes from the state taxing economic production to pay for inefficient bullshit that the market could have otherwise provided.

Do you know why there isn't mass produced artificial organs like hearts for super cheap like phones right now?
Because there's no profit motive in doing so, plus government regulations on these things also kill innovation.

We would probably all be living to 120 if the government has fucked off from the economy the past 50-100 years.

I swear, supporters of socialism are fucking retarded.

Step 1: Buy Monero
Step 2: Move that Monero a little bit.
Step 3: Trade that Monero to whatever the fuck you want on exchanges that do not ask for id

That's is Krauts, I solved your problem, no taxes paid, no risks involved. You are welcome.

>>5752917
wer bist du im discord?

>>5751393
1.2% on your total capital on January 1st (box 3)

QUESTION:

If you mined bitcoin or whatever and the value increased by a fuckton, do you still have to pay taxes on it?

Isn't it like finding gold somewhere?
Or selling gold that has been in your family for generations or something?

>>5753057
that's it?

>>5753045

But the problem is: They don't need to prove that you owe them taxes. YOU have to prove that you don't owe them taxes.

>>5751414
being this stupid to stay in the germany . he should have gtfo

>>5753044
Are you high? All our evidence points that insurance markets are incredibley inefficient for health care due to asymmetric information - look at how expensive America's healthcare system is. Fucking libtards saying "muh government" to literally every economic problem, flying straight in the face of reason and evidence. Also most money in pharma is spent marketing the same products differently (again, asymmetric information) rather than on R&D cos the only way a consumer can know whether a product works is through branding. Christ, profits for the tobacco industry as a whole went UP when the government limited advertising.

>>5753045
Then they will ask you how you got that monero. How fucking retarded are you?

>>5753044
Did you even understood what I said?
Read above son.

I pay taxes and I have healthcare, police that actually do their job (sometimes) and roads that lead me from X to Y faster.

Burgerlandia pays taxes and it's spent on fucking machineguns for the fatcunts to drop on allahpajeets and have no access to free healthcare.

The point is not that I pay taxes, the point is that I pay taxes and they actually have a fucking purpose in Europe.

>muh military spending
>muh iraqy wars
>muh oil

>>5752295
yes and you have to pay interest on it + have at least a verbal contract

>>5750858
Lol srsly? So this means I need to put my gains into monero and simply wait 3years then its verjährt? This cant be true.... but now if I think about it. No wonder rich people go away with so much tax fraud if they can only be sued for the last 3years of tax fraud.

>cryptotrading is a quite new and legally in a grey area
>german bureaucracy is effective but has 0 tolerance for things out of their control and refuse to update themselves technologically
>german institutions don't communicate much because most bureaucrats are autistic automatrons

I have the feeling we are all gonna get fucked by the Finanzamt/Banks. I've considered cahsing out through an american bank account, supposedly one has to pay no tax as a non-resident bank account holder and I'm not even a german citizen so I doubt the Finanzamt would go all the way to rhe US to get their hands on my info

>>5753108
>>5753158
You pay for the Monero with fiat. Do you need to pay taxes on what you buy? No. If they ask further questions on how the Monero investment goes, say you lost the keys or sent the money to someone else.

>>5753186
3 years is a lifetime in crypto tho.

>>5750167
Wrong
> think again

>>5752177

Mbn to have your kind of autism

>>5753226
say you bought prostitutes
thats legal in germany and they normaly dont give recieps

>>5753146
>All our evidence points that insurance markets are incredibley inefficient for health care due to asymmetric information
Fucking bullshit.
>look at how expensive America's healthcare system is
This PROVES MY POINT.
The entire reason healthcare prices are going up is the fact that government intervention makes it go up. Government and health insurance companies are in bed.

>Fucking libtards saying "muh government" to literally every economic problem, flying straight in the face of reason and evidence.
Except all reason and evidence points in our favor.

>Also most money in pharma is spent marketing the same products differently (again, asymmetric information) rather than on R&D cos the only way a consumer can know whether a product works is through branding.
Guess who gives big pharma oligopolies and restricts their competitors? THE GOVERNMENT! The FDA!

Also why during the early 1900s was healthcare super cheap and insurance is what KEPT DOWN prices? pic related
Explain this.

This asymmetric information explanation is a fucking joke and is filled with so many holes, the biggest one being that the healthcare market worked beautifully in the 50s and 60s when the government was much less involved.

Healthcare monopolists like yourself should be shot.

>>5751945
Are you from BG?

>>5753226
>You pay for the Monero with fiat.

What the fuck are you talking about? If you buy $500k worth of Monero with fiat they will ask where you got the $500k from.

You can't just trade your crypto gains to monero and then buy that monero with fiat.

>>5752787
>free healthcare
I guess they are gonna have to give me back €90 I pay monthly for health insurance

>tfw have had paid at least 6k in insurance since living here
>only went once to the hospital, my work insurance had to cover it anyways

>>5753160
>I pay taxes and I have healthcare
No, you're forced to pay for a violent government monopoly on healthcare that gives you a much more inefficient and low quality service than you would have otherwise gotten in a free market.

>and have no access to free healthcare.
Healthcare isn't free you brainwashed loon.
Also American's government forces the price of healthcare up so americans cannot buy it.

>>5753146
Honestly, the idea that america has a free market in healthcare is probably the biggest fucking lie out there.

It's incredible people this fucking dumb exist.
Especially when healthcare was extremely cheap and affordable in the 50s and 60s.
Holy shit.

>>5751426
Stop talking shit. All of those have tax on crypto with the exception of Portugal IF AND ONLY IF HOLDING. Fucking pissed at people always spreading misinformation here

>>5753146
>asymmetric information
Another thing on this bullshit.

Switzerland has PRIVATIZED HEALTHCARE.
Their government forces everyone to pay for health insurance.
Their prices aren't crazy out of control like america's prices.
How can this possibly be?
What happened to muh "asymmetric information".

Also the kike piece of shit that came up with this nonsense literally came out to say he wants to ban cryptos.
You trust this piece of shit? Look at him.

What happens if I ...
1. buy bitcoin.
2.daytrade with it.
3. Dont cashout the daytrade gains.
4. Put daytrade gains in bitcoins and hodl for 1years.
5. cashout only those hodld coin.


Do I still need to pay taxes on the daytrade? How do I do this in the first place? IsHow the finanzamt taking crypto now or am I forced to cashout in order to pay my daytrade taxes.


Also what happens if I have hodl 1year neo. But dont have an exchange that offers neo to fiat? Am I allowed to convert it into btc and sell?

>>5751433
Only if you don't trade

Jungs which exchange do you Germanbros use?

>>5753470
OP here

Bittrex

>>5750521
cointracking.info

Hab so keinen Bock darauf, aber wenn ich meinen Gewinn sicher anlegen will, dann hab ich wohl keine andere Wahl.

>>5753455
EVERY trade is taxed
hodl 1 year and stop gambling

>>5753234
Not really im hodling litecoins ,doge, feathercoins and ripple for 4years now. Which basically means they are tax free lol.... a reason more to long hodl this shit.what happens if I cash them out now and my bank sends the letter to the finanzamt then? They see its 4yold crypto and thats it?

>>5753470
Bitstamp um Crypto zu kaufen und Binance um das für Shitcoins zu tauschen.

>>5753513
Und wie kriegst du deine Euros auf Bittrex?

>>5750627
No.

Buy BTC
Buy REQ with BTC (tax)
Sell REQ to BTC (tax)
Cash out BTC (tax)
If those trades made you profit then you pay on all of them. If in-between your trades BTC increases by 2,50€ because you had to take a shit before finishing the trade then you have to pay for those gains when trading. Yep, we are that cucked.

>>5753533
But how is it taxed? I dont have fiat..... so the finanxamt is forcing me to sell the shit first in order to be liquid? Which also means I have to pay more taxes because its under 1year.

>>5753533
>start off day trading
>lose money
>can write off taxes due to losses
>start hodling shit for yearly intervals
>get paid by the government in the end

>>5753580
Crypto -> Shitcoins muss versteuer werden oder?

Jungs. FUN oder TRX. Was meint ihr?

>>5753664
FUN mein Junge.

>>5753577
Go to a lawyer and accountant, they will approach the Finazamt and explain them your situation. I wouldn't convert my crypto to fiat before talking to my lawyer and accountant.

>>5753664
kauf SPASS

>>5753655
Nur wenn du mindestens 500 euro gewinn dadurch machst, glaub ich. Gibt eine bestimmte Freigrenze.

>>5753033
btc > ATM . withdraw 1000 eur every day. if they ask where you got the cash from. say you sucked dick for cash.

>>5750815
Don't you get it? Once they start digging they will fuck you hard. Bank accounts might be forced to flag all past transactions related to crypto. Might take 5 years but they have 10 years to find shit under your shoe.
>>5750858
Verjährung can be extended

>>5753632
it gets funny if you cash out 5 or 6 figures of drahgi coin to your bank account

dont have a proof that you hodled 1 year:
prepare to pay dem taxes

if you never cash out, i doubt the fa will go after you

>>5750877
Germany blocks their site and banks will be blocked from trading with Binance and Co

What you fags dont realize is that if you bought btc one year ago on bitstamp moved those to a wallet on binance f.e. and then trade make profit and cash out only the amount of btc that u previously bought on bitstamp they will not figure it out

in my case i bought about a 100 btc in 2014 then lost most of it and now im making gains back to 100 btc and theb cash them out

i still have the logs on bitstamp from back when i bought them and they will not look further without binance giving them the info

>>5750167
>>5554083

>>5753604
Na auf Coinbase kaufen und nach Bittrex schicken

>>5751414
What? How? Didn't he get a good lawyer? He could've afforded one for sure.

>>5753791
Hab Coinbase nie benutzt, gibt's da was zu beachten? Ist es schnell und sicher? Hab immer bei Kraken eingezahlt.

>>5753533
No its fucking not. As long you don't trade back to EUR it will not count as taxable income. BTC->Shitcoin will not apply any taxes here in germany.

In Canada you can evade taxes for years, large amounts of it and if they catch you, they will force you to pay the money back, if you don't it's almost impossible for them to send you to jail.
Canada sends like 25 people to jail every year for tax evasion.

In USA many people go to jail each year for this.

It's rare that people get audited here though, I only hear of it happening to businesses

If I ever "make it", I plan on just not filing for years until they find me and ask me to file.
Then I'll pay them I guess. I dunno. Impossible to go to jail for that though.

>>5751743
Duuuude. They flag high volume transactions. Don't fuck with the Finanzamt

what about moving to Belarus and cashing out there?

>>5753804

He got welfare and traded crypto with it. In Germany, you need to declare ALL and I mean ALL assets that you own in order to get welfare, and he didn't declare his cryptos. Once he cashed out they settled to pay 90% of his total. He is lucky that they didn't throw him in jail.

>>5751743
The bank reports on your ass you dickwad

>>5753826
habe leider recht anon :(

>>5753851
Could I come back to my home country?

>>5751945
Same thing here in Romania. Only 10% income tax, nothing more. And that is only if you have large amounts. If you have anything less than 50k, they might not even notice.

>>5753819
Die Verifizerung dauert vielleicht etwas aber nachdem das fertig war konnte ich problemlos 1k Euronen draufzahlen und nach Bittrex schicken.

Einzahlen via Pushtan und Bankapp mache ich.

Aber das Einzahlen dauert immer 1 - 2 Tage.

>>5753470

germanfags

hat jemand hier eigentlich steuer gezahlt? plz report wie es gelaufen ist. und sag mal wenn man in deutschland lebt aber nicht burger ist dann? migrantfag

>>5753887
One assumes so.

>>5753470

Coin base - > GDAX ¬> Binance

>>5753886
Such dir einen besseren Steuerberater, ernsthaft.

>>5753886
nein nur weil leute so dumm sind dem finanzamt freiwillig geld zu schenken für ihre shitcoins heißt es nicht dass es so steuerrechtlich vorgeschrieben ist

bitte zeige mir einen Fall wo das Finanzamt aufgefordert hat einen Nachweis über alle Shitcoins einzureichen und darauf Steuern zu zahlen obwohl ein Verkauf nach EUR nie erfolgt ist

ich warte

>>5753791

Bruh zahlt man bei Coin base nicht Gebühr zum verschicken? Coin base zu GDAX is kostenlos und bei GDAX gibt's keine Gebühr..

>>5750522
>you sell maybe 5-10% below market value to somebody who pays cash or gold.

that's called buying you dummy

>>5750744
It's easier than that.
Buy 100 BTC in 2009
Sell them now with obvious profit.
Finanzamt or IRS: Prove this money doesn't come from drugs sale.

You are the one that will have to show you are not actually laundering money by checking and downloading every trade register.

This thread is showing there is a niche in the market for information and services around legally cashing out crypto.

>>5753865
no they don´t.
I asked somebody who works at my bank.
they only report interest earns.
every other income will not get reported except their "system" finds abnormalities. then you need to explain it to the bank and then they decide if the report or not.

if you for e.g. receive 1405,30€ , one week later 2353,04€ three weeks later 705,40€ there is a chance nobody would care.

if you receive 2500€ every month or like 10.000€ at once they will notice for sure and will ask questions.

but they for sure don´t automatically report every amount of income directly to finanzamt.

REDPILL ME ON THE ST KITTS EXIT

Refugees don't come cheap, OP.

>>5753982
wie gesagt. wird erst lustig bei 5,6 oder 7stelligen beträgen auf deinem konto

1 btc gekauft...10 btc verkauft
nanu wo kommen die denn her

please all imagine you sell your car for 8700€ and bring it to your bank.
when do you ever got a message from finanzamt to report it?
I sold like 3 cars in my life and i never needed to report something. nobody cares about this amounts of money. it is a difference in cashing out 10k or 100k.

Is there a coin that has untraceable transactions and allows you to create a fake transaction history for a second password on your normal private key? (like a hidden truecrypt volume inside a normal one)

that would solve most crypto tax problems as long as governments keep that hodl-1year=no-tax law.

>>5754068
>pay $250k for St Kitts citizenship application
>wait 3-6 months for processing
>receive St Kitts passport
>St Kitts has 0% tax
>you can travel to 150 countries visa-free including EU and Canada

>>5754121
Why are we cashing out such a small sum in your example though... At some point I'd like to move like 100k into an index fund and so on, pretty sure they will care.

DNK
MKL

>>5753982
Du hast schon recht. Es wird dich niemand nach Steuern fragen solange du es nicht irgendwo auf ein Konto oder Bar auszahlen lässt.

Einen Nachweis über deine Shitcoins musst du dann aber im Endeffekt trotzdem erbringen.
zB. Du stecks 10000 in BTC
Tradest 10000 in REQ
REQ steigt in der Zeit um 500% d.h. du bist nun 50000
Tradest REQ IN BTC
Tradest BTC in CASH um. (BTC ist jedoch in der Zeit nur um 100 % gestiegen)
Dann wirst du vom Finanzamt zu hören bekommen das dort was nicht stimmt.

>>5754115
wenn du wirklich so dumm sein solltest zu versuchen deine Millionen in diesem Drecksland auszucashen anstatt dich zügig in ein Land zu verpissen in dem du in den nächsten 40 Jahren nicht wegen deines Glaubens (bzw. nicht Glaubens) aufgeknüpft wirst dann wünsche ich dir viel Spaß dabei deine Krypto Gewinne als Dschizya zu zahlen.

>>5752559
Buying alts with BTC is a trade and gets taxed. If BTC went up in price after you've bought you made a profit. Careful

>>5750858
Dont believe what someone on the Internet says its 5-10 years and there is a possibility of +10 years in some cases, means you can getvassraped even after 19 years

>>5754185
because the most people will cash out between 1k-15k and not 100k.
if you are 100k heavy go to another country, if you are 3k heavy go and cash out and hope nobody cares.
if you try fuck with the finanzamt with 100k in your bags ..have fun they will burry you in jail and the guy who did it will get a nice bonus.

Hmm. Also eine Immobilie für 100k - 500k ist dann nicht so einfach, hm?

>>5751056
there is no capitalgain tax on crypto in germany wherevthe fuck do you get your infos from

>>5753717
Great, now you have to officially pay taxes for sucking dicks instead, which will probably be higher

>>5753857
Fuck I'm really nervous. I filled out my formulars honestly when I applied for neetbux. And I bought in when my neetbux was already approved. Which mean I only failed to notify them and didn't technically lie to them before applying.

>>5754225
auscashen in deutschland natürlich nur minimalst.

>>5750498
sorry man. don't go postal or anything

>>5754182
>>you can travel to 150 countries visa-free including EU and Canada
Wait what?

That doesn't make sense at all.

>Guys guys guys guys, hold on. Hold on a second.

I just realized that I never gave my ID to Binance.
Weow

:D

>>5754291
you are fucked, mate. Better lawyer up and have an "exit" plan ready. In the best case, they will fine the shit out of you and put you on probation.

>>5754358
>I just realized that I never gave my ID to Binance.

Doesn't matter, they have your IP address.

>>5754181
Salt is probably my best guess.

>>5754291
If you receive neetbux in Germany, you're basically a slave to the state. More so than the average Germanbot. It's only worth it if you plan on staying a poor leech all your life. You better plan to get out of here if you strike millions or else leaving the country wouldn't really be worth it considering you need to go for some shithole.

>>5753982
Was night ist kann noch werden. In ein paar Jahren haben die die nötige Kompetenz und checken das. Würde nicht darauf wetten, dass die diese Gewinne nicht geil machen.

>>5753408
I've read some of that guy's thinkpieces/theory and he is truly one of the most disgusting kikes active today

>>5753913
Das Problem ist, dass wohl selbst die Steuerberater da nicht ganz durchchecken und Fehlinformation verbreiten.

>>5754225
Welches Land schlägst du vor?

>>5754182
>St Kitts
>Pay 250k
Can i pay in btc? :(

>>5754460
bis dahin solltest du genug Zeit haben dein Vermögen aufzubauen und dich danach von hier zu verpissen.

Also alles gut.

>>5754359
>>5754425
Allerdings gibt es das sogenannte Schonvermögen. Es darf vom Jobcenter nicht mit dem Hartz-4-Geld verrechnet werden. Die Grundfreibeträge liegen laut SGB II bei 150 Euro je vollendetem Lebensjahr des Antragstellers, gedeckelt bei 9.750 Euro. Für Minderjährige gilt ein Freibetrag von 3.100 Euro, der zugleich auch der Minimalwert für erwachsene Bezugsberechtigte ist.

Heißt also bei den 5k die ich angelegt hab sollte ich sicher sein. Ist nicht meine Schuld, wenn sich diese 5k in der Zeit verdreifacht haben.

>>5752007
He's exaggerating, both will get you if you dodge taxes, but the IRS is probably more powerful. I recall reading that they have some of the strongest investigation, often they will catch known suspects in police/FBI investigations before these do.

You dumb fucks.
Either you hold 1 year and its tax free.

Or you sell OTC for ~5% less.
Plenty of BTC meetups in germany where you can sell your BTC.
Just be careful because people there are prone to steal computers and private keys.

>>5753106
I can confirm. Wealth not lock in real estate over 25000 is taxed 1.2%. Whether you let it stagnate in a savings account or let it grow in investments doesn't matter. In the current climate crypto is very favorable. Oh, if you started out in 2017 and went over the 25k treshold you don't have to pay anything yet. Wealth is taxed with a 1 year delay because you report the holdings on 1 januari 2017. Start doing your own taxes anon.

>>5754559

You still need to declare it to the Jobcentre. And they will force you to sell them so you have an income for living.

>>5754556
Wohin? Hab eigentlich keine Lust in der dritten Welt zu landen. Eigentlich sollte durch das viele Geld mein Lebensstandard steigen und nicht sinken.

>>5754469
central banking must be abolished

>>5754618
holy shit I wish I could move there


not really but I wish they had those tax rates in Canada

>>5753408
I don't want to get involved in your kuk stories.
Switzerland has semi-privatized Healthcare.
If you can't afford the normal healthcare, you get obvious subsidies from the government so we don't end up like shit place america.
Also, the system mostly works because we actually earn a proper living wage. We have an above average lifestyle with that living wage as well.
All that said, the immigration (rise of population) has led to rising prices and needs to be dealt with.
But most of our prices can be attributed to size of country in comparisson to yours.
Also we don't have some schizophrenic madman trying to light our country on fire.
We run something called democracy. I know you guys think that's what runs your country, but that's really not happening.
To stay on board of FINANCIAL topics, our banks are only successful coz of jew money they never gave back. Also taxes are fucked up, i can take out 75k without having to tax 'em. But I can't buy a house without paying some fucking luxury tax on that shit.

>>5750256
Just curious, where do people cash out in cash in Switzerland?

>>5754727
1)Go to a bank in Geneve or Basel
2)Tell them you want a bank account
3)You put like $10k in an envelope and subtly give it to the account manager
4)He gives you a USB or CD with online banking information of a random account
5)Cash out Bitcoins through an exchange like Coinbase or Gemini to your Swiss bank account

>>5754721
>I don't want to get involved in your kuk stories.
You mean the facts you don't like?

>Switzerland has semi-privatized Healthcare.
No shit.
The private healthcare isn't spiraling out of control.
Nor is it in Singapore.
Nor was it during the cheap healthcare days of 50s/60s in USA.

>If you can't afford the normal healthcare, you get obvious subsidies from the government so we don't end up like shit place america.
Top Kek you really are brainwashed.
Healthcare would be even CHEAPER in Switzerland if the government was completely not involved. The government forces everyone into health insurance, if it was a free market people would pay out of pocket for most things and have really cheap insurance that would pay for major health problems.
Those who were retards and couldn't pay would be funded by private charity which now has a large amounts of savings rates.

>Also, the system mostly works because we actually earn a proper living wage.
No fucking shit because Switzerland is mostly a FREE MARKET with a strong currency. If it was a socialist shithole everyone would be poor.

>But most of our prices can be attributed to size of country in comparisson to yours.
Another non argument.
Economies of scale would result in even CHEAPER prices, not more expensive ones.

>We run something called democracy.
Overrated but somehow the Swiss manage to do it well.
You're actually much more free market than you are democratic.

All of these empirical facts shows free market healthcare is far superior to government violence.

If you hate free markets why are you on this board?

>>5754668
In der Dritten Welt wirst du sowieso Landen auch wenn du hier bleibst.

>>5754824
I'm a leaf.
Can I easily get a Swiss bank account and then transfer the money here?

>>5754727
>>5750256
Swiss have a strong currency.
The average warehouse worker could like buy an entire town in USA.

>>5754225
Da freut sich meine Frau bestimmt wenn ich ihr sage, dass sie ihre Praxis schließen, ihren Traum aufgeben und ihre Familie zurücklassen soll, damit wir in Takkatukkaland von meinen Bitcoins leben können. :/

>>5750880
How have they not collapsed?

>>5754923
Not worth the plane ride

>>5754910
Es wäre ja verdammt lustig wenn es nicht so traurig und wahr wäre

>>5754972
noone makes that much money on paper.

>>5754983
>Not worth the plane ride
why?

>>5754824
for sure no.
you need to have proof of residence , ID etc. and if you tell them or they see you are from Germany they know what u trying to do.
They will not help you to avoid taxes lol not in 2018 anymore.

>>5754954
Yet he has to settle for paying 5€ for a cup of coffee unless he quits his job one day and goes to the USA with miraculously achieved savings.

>>5754960
Du kannst deine Frau bei mir lassen. Ich werde mich um sie kümmern.

>income received from Bitcoin mining activities will generally be outside the scope of VAT on the basis that the activity does not constitute an economic activity for VAT purposes because there is an insufficient link between any services provided and any consideration received

>income received by miners for other activities, such as for the provision of services in connection with the verification of specific transactions for which specific charges are made, will be exempt from VAT under Article 135(1)(d) of the EU VAT Directive as falling within the definition of ‘transactions, including negotiation, concerning deposit and current accounts, payments, transfers, debts, cheques and other negotiable instruments’

>when Bitcoin is exchanged for Sterling or for foreign currencies, such as Euros or Dollars, no VAT will be due on the value of the Bitcoins themselves

>charges (in whatever form) made over and above the value of the Bitcoin for arranging or carrying out any transactions in Bitcoin will be exempt from VAT under Article 135(1)(d) as outlined at 2 above

>However, in all instances, VAT will be due in the normal way from suppliers of any goods or services sold in exchange for Bitcoin or other similar cryptocurrency. The value of the supply of goods or services on which VAT is due will be the sterling value of the cryptocurrency at the point the transaction takes place

The UK is where its at boys

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/revenue-and-customs-brief-9-2014-bitcoin-and-other-cryptocurrencies/revenue-and-customs-brief-9-2014-bitcoin-and-other-cryptocurrencies

Hier in Österreich cashen diese ganzen Cryptotürken über Bitcoin ATMs aus, thoughts? Kennt jemand die Limits etc?

>>5755001
They only accept Germans or really fucking rich idiots who don't know the superior alternatives.

>>5755073
what are other alternatives?
I only know of st kitts

Any austrian fags here?
How would i cash out here in order to avoid taxes?
What if i would go to an Bitcoin ATM an cash out something like 1000€ from time to time - that should be safe, right?

In this thread you see the typical german attitude. Complete cucks to the government and voluntary tax payers.
I sold in germany over 1k€ in mining revenues and never paid a dime. Everything else in russia, where the govt doesn't give a shit and where I pay 0%, ZERO,ZILCH,NADA percent in taxes for my mining revenues.
Get on my level KEKS

>>5750167
einfach in unter 10k schritten auscashen so dass keine geldwäschemeldung gemacht wird
done

>>5754519
Just move to a nice Dorf or Kleinstadt and ignore the /pol/ kids.
All of Europe has been multiculturalized. Asian, American or African countries are all shitholes compared to Germany.

Also was ist denn jetzt wahr ?
Wenn man ein Jahr lang Crypto bunkert,
kann man es doch dann anschließen in Euro umtauschen und auszahlen oder nicht ?

Falls nein, ist doch dann dieses Gesetz mit dem 1 Jahres frist, sinnlos ?

Wie würdet ihr den vorgehen um den Steuern zu entgehen ?

In der Schweiz leben ?

Ein Wohnsitz, in Portugal oder Dubai einrichten und dort auszahlen und Konto eröffnen ?

>>5755132
Schick mir deine Knete und ich regel das für dich.

>>5755059
YEa but chek the incom tax in the UK you still have to pay that.

>>5755043
>Yet he has to settle for paying 5€ for a cup of coffee unless he quits his job one day and goes to the USA with miraculously achieved savings.
The average Swiss has a fuckton more savings than the average american though.
That's one reason WHY their country is doing well.

Leftists and keynesians will tell you savings is bad.

Also no shit things are expensive there, they're expensive for people not using their currency. For the average Swiss person it's completely normal because they make so much money.

Do you know what strong currency means?
It's like you're from thailand or something and come to USA and say your currency doesn't go as far.
No fucking shit, it's a weaker currency.

>>5755121
Nice bait.

>>5755137
Wenn du mir den perfekten plan nennst, perfekt beschrieben, mit ort, strategie und alles drum und dran , poste dein Litecoin adresse und ich sende dir was, wenn es soweit ist.

>>5755121
>1k€
Nobody cares abour 1k you dumb retard, not even the Finanzamt. We are talking about 6 and 7 figures here.

>>5750302
Well you have to pay for the refugees somehow right Kraut?

>>5750167
Haha, Dummbernd. Just keep it for a year and get out tax free because of privates Veräußerungsgeschäft. There's no valid Rechtssprechung at the moment to make you pay all those taxes. Fight them.

>>5750627 without taxes:
buy btc - hold for one year
trade them for a coin - hold this also for a year
you can now
a) sell them for btc and hold those for a year before you sell legally without taxes or
b) hold this altcoin for 1 year and sell(and pray to god your altcoin pos or w/e payments don't fall under some weird extraruling that makes that 1 year holding period a 10 year period <- esp. this part for PoS etc. coins is not yet set in stone)

>>5755148
In russia you don't have to tax or report any crypto revenues, opfer. And you can cash out the money in germany via a VISA card. So it's not even a problem to get the money to germany. But I've forgotten that germans are autist that believe and do anything that the government tells them, and are just in general conditioned wage slaves and tax payers

>>5755141
>when Bitcoin is exchanged for Sterling or for foreign currencies, such as Euros or Dollars, no VAT will be due on the value of the Bitcoins themselves

can you read pleb? if you brought a crypto and its value rises you dont pay any tax on it. if you are being paid in BTC then you pay 20% but who gets paid in bitcoin? 0.0001% of the population? not me anyway.

>>5755119
Es gibt einige hier aber ich bin mir nicht sicher ob man da auszahlen kann, die Firma heißt cointed

>>5755220
Ist einfach so. Ich ficke Deutschland und ich ficke jeden der sich vom Deutschen Staat in den Arsch ficken lässt. Fick Merkel und ihr Almaniastan-Projekt.

>>5755127
>>5755190
teil 3:

zusammenfassung:

mach dir nichts ins hemd. ich kenn leute die haben auf ein konto das auf einen azubi registriert (500euro gehalt zahlungseingang im monat lel) war im verlauf von 11 monaten über 150k in größtenteils kleinen scheinen eingezahlt in cash und da hat sich auch keiner interessiert.
banken geben grundsätzlich nur meldung raus, wenn sie MÜSSEN (warum sollten sie auch anders...)

>>5755047
Deal, wenn du den Schwiegerdrachen auch nimmst.

>>5754910
Wo würdest du denn hin? Oder bleibst du in D und motzt dann tagein tagaus über Ausländer?

>tfw no tax on crypto

>>5755121
>Over 1K

Weow, you're so right bra

>>5750623
the point is: in germany if you give them a bone and they smell blood our "IRS equivalent" will make a bullshit ruling in their favor and tell you to fucking sue them if u don't like what you are given.
They literally calculate some random bullshit amount, tell you you owe them exactly this much and you can try them at the finanzgericht

>>5755220
>In russia you don't have to tax or report any crypto revenues, opfer. And you can cash out the money in germany via a VISA card. So it's not even a problem to get the money to germany. But I've forgotten that germans are autist that believe and do anything that the government tells them, and are just in general conditioned wage slaves and tax payers
Russians are literally known for this though lmao

>>5755286
Neger wenn du innerhalb weniger Monate 150k auf dein Konto hast obwohl du ein AZUBI bist, dann wird die Bank GARANTIERT dem Finanzamt bescheid sagen.

1 0 0 prozentig

>>5754291
>Which mean I only failed to notify them and didn't technically lie to them before applying.
you are required by law to give them all the info ASAP
>>5754559
>Ist nicht meine Schuld, wenn sich diese 5k in der Zeit verdreifacht haben.
Ist 100% deine Schuld, das nicht deklariert zu haben.

Würde auf jeden Fall mal bei ner Anwaltshotline für kostenlose Erstberatung anrufen (lifeprotip: falls du umsonst mehr herausfinden willst - ruf einfach mehrere kanzleien an und quatsch mit denen in der erstberatung - bekommst so auch ohne gebühren einiges an verlässlicher info) und fragen, wie die die Sache sehen.
wie
>>5754425
sagt
>you're basically a slave to the state

digger ich hab den 700 seitigen ermittlungsbericht gelesen. die kamen erst darauf, nachdem die staatsanwaltschaft bereits 2 durchsuchungen durchgeführt hat und erst danach die konten der beteiligten ermitteln wollte.

100% real so passiert

>>5755505
to
>>5755418

Bank ist nur verpflichtet bei VERDÄCHTIGEN bewegungen zu melden. Alles unter 10k ist unverdächtig solange kein unmittelbarer zusammenhang zwischen einzelnen transaktionen herzustellen ist (z.b am gleichen tag gehen 2 einzahlungen für 9.999 euro ein)

muss aber auch dazu sagen, dass sich das ganze in bayern abgespielt hat. da is das finanzamt nicht ganz so heftig unterwegs

>>5755505
Also wurde er erwischt

Du Vollidiot

Kannst ja das gleiche machen und nachzahlen oder sogar im Knast landen

Spast

>>5755577
Wer hat denn gesagt, dass diejenigen DESWEGEN erwischt bzw. verurteilt wurden? Zu der Geldwäsche gab es keinerlei Ermittlung, selbst nachdem der Betrag und sogar Stückelung der Einzahlung der staatsanwaltschaft bekannt war.

>>5755505
1. er wurde erwischt
2. wie ist es denn unverdächtig wenn man als Azubi statt 500€ aufeinmal im Monat mehrere Zehntausende aufs Konto fließen???????

>earn 100k
>Pay 50k tax
>Invest 50k
>Cashout 300k
>Pay 120k tax
>Buy lambo
>19% tax VAT

Danke Merkel

>>5755658
1. siehe >>5755644
2. unverdächtig ist nicht was du unter unverdächtig verstehst sondern was im GwG steht

>>5751743

They don't but banks report unusual money flow to the authorities. And then they will get active

>>5750167

Bist du behindert? Komplett falsch OP.

Wenn du länger als ein Jahr hältst zahlst du keine Steuern.

D.h. in deinem Szenario zahlst du genau 1x und zwar vom tausch von Bitcoin zu Altcoin, was aber 0€ ist wenn du direkt nach eincashen tradest.

Wenige Länder haben es so gut wie Deutschland mit der ein Jahres regelung. Wer hier Steuern zahlt hat sich nur nicht über die Regeln informiert.

>>5752559
Well then there isn't a problem since soon it'll take a year to transfer btc anyway.

>>5755912
kek

>>5755912

>>5751993
what if i split the ETH i bought into other crypto's over the course of the year (eg. XRB, ICX)?
and what if i hold XRB and ICX for a year and then cash out?
are only the conversions taxed?

>>5754618
Yeah its not that simple
>An interesting question would be how cryptocurrencies would be taxed in the personal income tax in case someone actively trades in cryptocurrencies. The tax-authorities could say that this goes beyond passive management of funds, meaning your profits would be taxed in box 1 instead of box 3. The facts and circumstances of a situation would be of great importance in such cases.
https://www.grantthornton.nl/en/insights-en/articles/bitcoin-hits-10000-dollar-what-about-cryptocurrency-and-taxes/

>>5755876

Das Problem ist dass du kein Geld mehr verdienst wenn du jetzt nur noch irgendwelche Shitcoins jahrelang holdest. Mit daytrading kannst du das Hundertfache in wenigen Wochen machen, musst aber für jede Transaktion Steuern zahlen.

Ich habe zusammen mit einem Bekannten, der "for shits and giggles" 10€ in crypto investieren wollte durch eine Stunde hin- und hergeschiebe am Tag mit XVG und ETH innerhalb einer Woche 140€ gemacht.

Für 1000€ Bitcoins kaufen, rumpimmeln und 2019 Lambo kaufen iss nich mehr.