/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.11722773]

Anyone else FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) here?

Saving 50% of my income so I can retire at 40 and live off the interest

[Anonymous No.11723017]

the /biz/ response a year ago:
>lmao yeah right enjoy your 1% return grandpa etf's!!

there is no biz response now because none of the NEETs on here make enough autismbux to have a 50% savings rate

[Anonymous No.11723284]

>>11722773

I wish I'd seen the light in my 20s Anon. Trying to retire at 55 hoping to save 50% when I have my small townhome paid off next year.

Blew it all on hoes.

[Anonymous No.11723720]

>>11723284
I wasted earning potential and wasn't serious about saving in my 20s. Only really got my shit together at 31... hopefully can retire around 55 too, but a lot can happen in a couple decades. Let's not forget to live in the now, too.

[Anonymous No.11723738]

>>11722773
"Interest"
you mean the thing that nets you a negative return?

19 & 40k usd net worth. All acquired through work & real investments, no crypto or penny stocks.

[Anonymous No.11723768]

>>11722773
Living with my parents and currently dumping 80% of my net pay into investments. It's awesome but my parents really want me to move out and get my own house. Thing is if I move out I'm not going to take a mortgage and pay into interest and home equity. I'm just going to find a room to rent as cheap as possible and do exactly what I;m doing now.

[Anonymous No.11723782]

>>11723738
No, a basic stock portfolio (S&P 500 index fund for example) will typically net an average gain of 7% per year in the long run. Once you have a 25x your annual expenses saved, you can draw from that fund your yearly income less inflation and live off the interest in perpetuity.

[Anonymous No.11723866]

>>11723782
Re-run your inflation numbers and factor in the 2-4 bottom years you have to draw from. It depends on where you start and the timing of cashing out.

25x? If my nation's retirement age is say 65, are you only expecting to live to 90?
Run an exponential function on the age you'll live to with increases every year. Factor in bank bail-ins, asset freezes, tax, you end up with little.

If you want to retire, you buy at low PE/PB multiples with about a 15-25% LVR to hedge for inflation, and you sell any stocks that rise to overvalued levels. There is no such thing as 'invest and forget' unless you want to be raped by tax, inflation, and poor returns.

[Anonymous No.11723880]

>>11722773
fuck you
i hope you get wiped out

[Anonymous No.11723902]

0 savings but 56k link so yeah I'm fire

[Anonymous No.11723909]

>>11723880
With a fag term like "FIRE" rather than simply retired, I hope he does too

[Anonymous No.11723924]

I agree with most of the tenants of FI/RE, but don't really agree with the frugal fetishism. Throw some shit into retirement funds and tax-advantaged accounts, but still be willing to occasionally splurge on nice things.

It's also really fucking hard to do if you aren't making six figures (moreso with a wife and/or kids), which puts it out of reach for the vast majority of people.

[Anonymous No.11723944]

>>11723284

cucked by muh dik. women: not even once

[Anonymous No.11723950]

>>11723866
>If you want to retire, you buy at low PE/PB multiples with about a 15-25% LVR to hedge for inflation, and you sell any stocks that rise to overvalued levels. There is no such thing as 'invest and forget' unless you want to be raped by tax, inflation, and poor returns.
Simple index funds beat all other investment strategies in the long run, this has been studied - picking stocks is for losers.

[Anonymous No.11723976]

>>11723866

>implying you put all your money in at once and withdraw everything at once

[Anonymous No.11723994]

>>11723950
So Peter Lynch doesn't disprove this theory? Carl Icahn? Buffett? Stay poor, it's people like you that buy literal trash off the market irrespective of price that make me rich.
Thanks!
How about you show me the proof? You won't find it. I'll just put Lynch in your face and you literally can't logically exit the argument a winner.

[Anonymous No.11723999]

>>11722773

>people starting threads hoping to have like 500k in 20 years
>during the bullrun I felt insecure about the 800k I had at 26 years old because of all the 'YOU NEED 4 MILLION TO MAKE IT THREADS'
>now holding on to 50k hoping to make it to 500k in 20 years

NO WORDS CAN DESCRIBE THIS FEELING

[Anonymous No.11724003]

>>11723976
>yes lets pull out 40k in 2008 when in a year it will be worth 80k
>yes lets not sell when the average pe ratio means the stock returns less than inflation
>yes

[Anonymous No.11724021]

>>11723924

I'm starting to realize what I should have a year ago when I started trying to maximize my frugality: it's much more profitable and fulfilling to expend energy on boosting your income than saving every little penny you can.

I could have job hopped to a 120k software dev job in the last year but instead I was content with my 85k job and worrying about bullshit like how to save 100 bucks a month on food.

[Anonymous No.11724040]

>>11723994
>So Peter Lynch doesn't disprove this theory? Carl Icahn? Buffett?
You aren't Warren Buffet, you're a brainlet who like the other brainlets will not beat the market. There's a reason why they are billionaires and you are not.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investment-ideas/actively-managed-funds-vs-the-index-once-again-no-contest/article21580578/

>The most recent Standard & Poor's SPIVA Canada Scorecard, released last month, shows mutual fund performance after all fees and costs, up to the end of June. In the Canadian equity category, 32 per cent of active funds beat the S&P/TSX composite total return index over the past three years. About 20 per cent beat the index over the past five years.

>Those figures hardly inspire confidence, but are relatively stellar compared to the beat rate on U.S. equities. Over the past three years, about one in 70 funds beat the S&P 500 Total Return Index. Over the past five years, about one in 20 outperformed.

>"It's becoming increasingly difficult to find U.S. equity funds that I can recommend," Mr. Paterson said.

>By no means is that estimation of active management limited to Canada.

>Only 18 per cent of actively managed U.S.-based large-cap equity funds are beating the market this year so far, up to the end of October, the worst performance in more than a decade, according to figures released by Bank of America.

The experts cannot even pick stocks correctly and you want me to believe you found some magic system that always beats the market?

[Anonymous No.11724054]

>>11724003

>thinking you're smart enough to time the market to beat the average return which most professional wall st phd investors fail to do
>muh pe ratio guys! it's so simple!

[Anonymous No.11724087]

>>11724040
https://www.starcapital.de/fileadmin/user_upload/files/publikationen/2014_02_CAPE_Predicting_Stock_Market_Returns.pdf

>Hurr durr i've never read benjamin graham, help me cuck my kids into mediocre nps lives

Neck

[Anonymous No.11724101]

>>11724054
I've got the documents at my main home which prove 3 different timings, house on the market will make it four once it sells. Commodity booms, GFC, housing bubbles, it's the same. Stay poor goy :)

[Anonymous No.11724118]

>>11724087
Why doesn't every fund manager just use this strategy an beat the market then?

[Anonymous No.11724128]

>>11724118
>Implying I'm retarted enough to use "goy" managers and not invest in the same way our kibbutz is
This is the best free entertainment on the internet

[Anonymous No.11724135]

>>11722773
FIREfag here. I have a cell tower on my property that I get paid around $30k USD to lease annually.

[Anonymous No.11724137]

>>11722773
Who here divbros?
>all my current dividends are giving me a 3.98% return with a estimated stock and div growth of 8.3%
>net worth will be aroung 1.6 mil with 51k per annum in quarterly payouts within 10 years
Feels good man

[Anonymous No.11724144]

>>11724128
If its so easy and formulaic, why is there no CAPE bot fund?

Doesn't pass the shit test.

[Anonymous No.11724172]

>>11724144
There is, it's called sell more than 12 months befor the yield curve inverts, and leverage anything with (acceptably valued) PB ratios of less than 0.6-0.7
You think it's rocket science?
But yeah keep putting your cash in savings so I get more 0% interest margin loans.

[Anonymous No.11724192]

>>11724172
What you're spinning isn't credible, professional fund managers would have used this technique by now if it consistently worked.

[Anonymous No.11724218]

>>11724101

ok hot shot, so why are you shitposting on an Indonesian manga forum on a monday night

[Anonymous No.11724233]

>>11724192
If solar panels are economical without finance, why isn't everyone financing them?
If you can borrow money at 4% and get 20% returns, why isn't everyone doing it?

Because they aren't intuitive and aware. I now know why you're all hated so much
But hey I did provide evidence. None of you have read it because you'd be out there wondering why you were so ignorant your whole life

[Anonymous No.11724249]

>>11724218
Its tuesday during the day. I have a weird ego so this is always one of the purest forms of stimulation for me

[Anonymous No.11724257]

>>11724135

enjoy your 7 figure cancer treatment bill

[Anonymous No.11724268]

>>11724233
>If solar panels are economical without finance, why isn't everyone financing them?
Most people don't invest generally, let alone in home infrastructure that will take a decade to pay off in a society where people change homes more frequently than that

[Anonymous No.11724270]

Yep absolutely

These retards won’t listen though, I try to tell them but it’s all about shitcoins still
t. 22, 150k net worth, saving 75k a year

[Anonymous No.11724278]

>>11724249
Post your portfolio

[Anonymous No.11724297]

>>11724278
ASX:AOG

Plenty more stocks i can go into but look at how it's valued and do your own numbers on the NPV.

[Anonymous No.11724313]

>>11723999

[Anonymous No.11724318]

>Doesn't even live or invest in North America and talks all this shit
That's gonna be a yikes from me

[Anonymous No.11724322]

>>11724297
>>11724318

[Anonymous No.11724330]

>>11723866
Are you retarded?
Have you heard of yeild on investment or dividend payouts?

And all this takes is some simple reading to make sure your stocks dont get JUSTd like GE.

[Anonymous No.11724373]

>>11724322
>Isn't living in China, the nation with the fastest increasing standard of living, and the most economic power in the world
>Prefers a country with a dying dollar
Mark my words- 10Y yield keeps rising. USD strengthens against other currencies. China stops exporting cheap goods to the US and keeps them in the country instead, causing huge inflation.

Do you see your logic? I know how a few governments operate (HK/AUS share a similar value capture model)- and from that, I find undervalued stocks which are set to profit in the same manner the government does. It's called a trend.

[Anonymous No.11724381]

>>11724087
>buy low sell high
No shit retard, or you can do what Buffet actually does and find a value THAT PAYS DIVIDENDS, and get a substantial yeild on cost.

Nigga Buffet bought KO in the 80s and is still reaping the benifits, value investors buy and hold dummy.

[Anonymous No.11724395]

>>11724330
The fuck? i'm talking about valuing an annuity to factor in predictable trends & telling OP that due to the four down years he has to sell stock to cover living expenses, his math won't check out.

[Anonymous No.11724421]

>>11724381
No, they buy cheaper than intrinsic value and sell above. No reason to hold a stock that is overvalued, ever head of discounting or opportunity cost?
Hope to fuck you guys are labourers

[Anonymous No.11724501]

>>11724297
Pls take my bait

[Anonymous No.11724521]

>>11724373
China is a paper tiger overly dependent on global free trade. The USA is effectively an autarky with one of the lowest GDP to import ratios.

If you're betting on them you really are a brainlet.

[Anonymous No.11724563]

>>11724521
Dependent on global free trade?
So you're saying if three brothers work to feed a fourth who is lazy, they won't suddenly think for a second to question his ability to work and feed himself?

You are so textbook-indoctrinated, a dead cat has a better level of awareness than yourself. China is setting itself up to benefit the most from automation and cheap energy. Kondratiev would be rolling in his grave at the likes of your ignorance.

[Anonymous No.11724579]

Anyway poorfags I'm off to go eat and smoke. Have fun staying financially illiterate and "NPC". The irony is strong.

[Anonymous No.11724588]

>>11724563
Its entirely dependent on the US for its sustenance. The US could pull the rug out from under it if it wanted to

[Anonymous No.11724625]

>>11724135
I own an apartment building, put up eight cell antennas on that shit. Getting paid $60k CAD/ year

[Anonymous No.11724708]

I'm retiring at 50. This is why;

State Worker w/pension + 401k + medical. These benefits are set in stone. Only way to lose it is if the state goes bankrupt. Then I've got money in savings and a little in a brokerage account. My debt is not outrageous; just my house and 1k on a credit card. My car is paid for. No student debt at all. My wife brings home a decent check. Her car is paid off as well. No kids. She has no student debt either. I'm 35 btw.

[Anonymous No.11724731]

>>11724708
The state rules governing retirement states bluntly; 27 years you retire w/full payout. 32 years is max. Anything past 32 your paying the state to work.

[Anonymous No.11724742]

>>11724731
So you enter state work at 18. 27 yrs later you pull the pin w/full benefits

[Anonymous No.11724928]

>>11724563

China's value the global trade order is intermediary goods, aka taking a raw material and turning it into a well understood product that anyone could produce but cheaper. And they have done extremely well in that regards. However, they are to a point where the cost of producing is now more expensive than other countries. It means they are entering the "middle income trap" where countries have grown to as much as trade surpluses allow but can't grow any further without reforming their economy and stomping out tough things like corruption.

China is heavily dependent on raw materials like food and metallurgical resources from overseas as their own country doesn't have enough of them. It's why they go around building export terminals and owning mines in Africa. They need it to fuel there economy. They also need high tech goods for the West which they haven't been able to steal/reverse engineer yet. You take away these things and suddenly the intermediary goods they cheaply produce are no longer cheap.

And you should know China is heavily dependent on foreign energy and very much at risk of supply swings.

[Anonymous No.11725034]

What can a hardworking brainlet do at 18 to retire ASAP?
Just putting most of my paycheck into an etf every month?

[Anonymous No.11725190]

>>11725034
Find a tenured dividend stock with yeilds higher than 3.7% and keep pumping cash preferrably 5k a month into it for 10-15 years then watch your net worth hit over 1.9-3 million dollars with dividends paying out minimum 40k per annum due to compounding interest and re-investing. That or fuck around with index funds or vangaurd indexes and wait for around 30 years.