/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.216345]

Let's say we abolish the income tax,

>Paying for roads, sign posts, etc.
>Gas / Insurance tax
>Paying for health care
>cigars, alcohol, junkfood tax
>schools and education
>tax on books and stuff

But where would the government get money to finance the military and research?

[Anonymous No.216365]

Presumably a VAT unless you want to outsource those things to private sector.

[Anonymous No.216385]

>>216345
The private sector, obviously. Haven't you ever read Atlas Shrugged?

[Anonymous No.216389]

>>216345
>>Paying for health care
That's fucking easy.

[Anonymous No.216395]

It's absolutely sadistic we haven't privatized healthcare COMPLETELY in america.

We need the price to come down and medical innovation to dramatically increase.

[Anonymous No.216408]

>>216389
>>216395

>posting that tripe again on /biz/

If you don't think its sadistic for a closed group to deny health care to anyone they want at any time for any given reason, then lelbertarians truly are sociopaths.

[Anonymous No.216410]

>>216389
So bring fraternal societies back?

[Anonymous No.216411]

>>216395
>the world laughs at you for not having universal healthcare
>It's absolutely sadistic we haven't privatized healthcare COMPLETELY

[Anonymous No.216418]

>>216395
lol

[Anonymous No.216419]

>>216408
>>posting that tripe again on /biz/
These are facts.
Stop complaining.

>If you don't think its sadistic for a closed group to deny health care to anyone they want at any time for any given reason
That's how the fucking GOVERNMENT works RIGHT NOW, you dumb fuck.

I want healthcare to be decentralized and to be provided by hundreds of thousands of providers.

Eat shit.

>>216410
Fuck yeah.

>>216411
>>the world laughs at you
Lol yeah as they die in waiting lines.

Did the soviets laugh at us for not having state monopolized FOOD as well?

Holy fuck are you idiots stupid, get off /biz/

[Anonymous No.216429]

>>216419
>Lol yeah as they die in waiting lines.

You really believe that, don't you?

[Anonymous No.216424]

>>216419
It's also a fact that socialized medicine is considerably cheaper and drastically improves the average lifespan. Pretty much every industrialized nation uses it for a reason.

>state monopolized FOOD
Funny you should say that because we kinda do through agricultural subsidies.

[Anonymous No.216427]

>>216419
What's the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist?

[Anonymous No.216435]

>>216385
>Do you seriously believe what's put across in that book can actually be applied in real life?
if the answer is yes.. please refer to pic related

[Anonymous No.216436]

>>216424
>It's also a fact that socialized medicine is considerably cheaper
WRONG AGAIN

I JUST posted facts showing free market healthcare is far less expensive here:
>>216389

Deal with it cunt.

And the countries that have more market based medicine, singapore and switzerland have the LOWEST HEALTHCARE COSTS IN THE WORLD.

>drastically improves the average lifespan
Lol no

>Pretty much every industrialized nation uses it for a reason.
Why the fuck would this matter?

>Funny you should say that because we kinda do through agricultural subsidies.
I'm talking about socialized food as in the soviet union and maoist china.

You fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.216441]

>>216429
>You really believe that, don't you?
I'm from a country with socialized healthcare you lying sack of shit.

[Anonymous No.216442]

People who advocate state monopolization of healthcare are vicious authoritarian psychopaths who hate technology and medicine in general.

They want people to suffer. They want to force everyone to pay MORE money for healthcare than we would get in a free market.

[Anonymous No.216446]

>>216429
>You really believe that, don't you?
Please kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.216449]

>>216442
lololol

[Anonymous No.216452]

>>216449
Why do the facts make you mad?
It's like you've been brainwashed to stab yourself in the chest while laughing.

[Anonymous No.216454]

>>216408
By your logic, you're a sociopath for refusing to use your resources to care for anyone outside of your closed group of "family and friends".

Why don't you let the homeless into your home? You have room you sociopath.

[Anonymous No.216455]

>>216446
I'd rather wait a year to have my shit treated than wait until I die from it. If waiting is so fucking bad, why not just buy a private plan?

[Anonymous No.216456]

>>216446

>mfw people die in overcrowded emergency rooms in private market because they can't get coverage
>mfw I have no face

[Anonymous No.216458]

>>216442
There is no "free market" you retarded fuck.

[Anonymous No.216460]

>>216452
These "facts" of yours don't make me mad, they make me laugh. lolol

[Anonymous No.216461]

>>216442
Healthcare is cheaper by leaps and bounds in all of Europe if compared to the US, where your "free market" reigns. Fucktard.

[Anonymous No.216462]

>>216435
Liberal socialists on rebbit wear fedoras, kiddo.

>>216455
>I'd rather wait a year to have my shit treated than wait until I die from it.
You would rather WAIT a year and DIE from not having your cancer treated?
lol how dumb are you?

>why not just buy a private plan?
Because they don't exist? it's not actually private

>>216456
>>mfw people die in overcrowded emergency rooms in private market because they can't get coverage
What fucking private market you retard?

Where?
Show me this "private market".

Back in the 1950s in america when heathcare was a lot more free market based, there was an abundance of healthcare and everyone got treated.

[Anonymous No.216466]

>>216427
Still waiting on an answer to this.

[Anonymous No.216464]

>>216458
>There is no "free market" you retarded fuck.
No shit.
America isn't a free market.
So stop strawmanning.

>>216460
>These "facts" of yours don't make me mad, they make me laugh. lolol
Stay angry that you're factually wrong.
:^)

>>216461
>where your "free market" reigns.
I JUST fucking SHOWED you that america doesn't have anything CLOSE to a free market.

You batshit insane retard.

Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.216467]

>>216462

You're either a master troll or a total buffoon if you don't understand how a free market would minimize costs at the expense of the lower class.

[Anonymous No.216470]

>>216461
Seriously though,

How DUMB do people have to be to actually believe america has a free market in healthcare?

Do these people have brain damage or something?

[Anonymous No.216471]

>>216389
All of the policies of the AMA have been designed to keep healthcare prices high for the welfare of the doctors, being an organization of doctors and doctor-advocates. Like nearly every business who lobbies for State intervention in their industry, as the free market is ruthless in its efficiency and pro-consumer terms, the State intervention that has always been done in the name of the big medical associations, and is anti-consumer.

[Anonymous No.216472]

>>216467
>understand how a free market would minimize costs at the expense of the lower class.
Yeah, that's absolutely horrible how the free market CREATED the middle class in the fucking first place.

The facts are against you, you brainwashed shit eater.

It would minimize costs FOR the lower class.

[Anonymous No.216474]

>>216462
>You would rather WAIT a year and DIE from not having your cancer treated?
>lol how dumb are you?

I'm assuming those numbers in that chart (if accurate) are the average? Got any numbers on how many people in Canada actually die waiting for treatment?

>Because they don't exist? it's not actually private
Yes they do.

[Anonymous No.216479]

>>216471
>All of the policies of the AMA have been designed to keep healthcare prices high for the welfare of the doctors, being an organization of doctors and doctor-advocates. Like nearly every business who lobbies for State intervention in their industry, as the free market is ruthless in its efficiency and pro-consumer terms, the State intervention that has always been done in the name of the big medical associations, and is anti-consumer.

Finally someone with some intelligence in this thread.

>>216474
>Got any numbers on how many people in Canada actually die waiting for treatment?
Most of them don't die because they go to america to get treated lol.

>>216474
>Yes they do.
Except they don't.
Private healthcare is illegal.

[Anonymous No.216481]

>>216466
Stiiiiilll waiting for an answer to this >>216427


What's the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist?

[Anonymous No.216482]

Free market medical care would cost near pennies.

Seriously, this is fucking insane.

The government does nothing but drive up medical prices.

[Anonymous No.216484]

>>216479
lol ok I'm done arguing with you, you obviously don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Dumbass kid, enjoy your hitler youth- er I mean young republican meetings

[Anonymous No.216485]

>>216419

>These are facts.

Sourceless "facts"

>That's how the fucking GOVERNMENT works RIGHT NOW, you dumb fuck.
>I want healthcare to be decentralized and to be provided by hundreds of thousands of providers.

You are a complete moron. First of all, a centralized government run health care system has laws in place that don't discriminate against patients because unlike businesses they aren't OUT TO MAKE A PROFIT. Second, what's supposed to keep health care being monopolized or becoming a small oligarchy like it has in the past? inb4 muhh free markets

>Lol yeah as they die in waiting lines

I kek'd.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/11/universal-healthcare-doesnt-mean-waiting-longer-to-see-a-doctor/281614/
http://www.nber.org/bah/fall07/w13429.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/americas-waiting-times-are-the-worst-in-the-world/2011/05/09/AFGIxr2G_blog.html

Not to mention that wait times mean nothing for people who are denied health care in the first place.

>>216436

>I JUST posted facts showing free market healthcare is far less expensive here

No it isn't.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/tag/u-s-vs-canadian-health-care-costs/
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries/
http://www.the-rheumatologist.org/details/article/1457997/A_Comparison_of_the_Canadian_and_U_S__Healthcare_Systems.html

And lifespan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

>>216442

>People who advocate state monopolization of healthcare are vicious authoritarian psychopaths who hate technology and medicine in general.

Nice strawman and ad-hom. Tell me how it isn't psychopathy to deny health care for many to ensure health care for the few?

Now back to /pol/ and stay at /pol/

[Anonymous No.216487]

>>216481

Not all libertarians are completely opposed to a government, they just want its role minimized.

[Anonymous No.216488]

>>216481
>What's the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist?
A libertarian believes in smaller government that does basic things like police, courts and military.

An anarchist believes these things can be private too.

[Anonymous No.216502]

>>216484
>you obviously don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Lol I posted countless facts and statistics.

Your damage control is showing.

>enjoy your hitler youth- er I mean young republican meetings
OH GOD MY SIDES
Next you're going to tell me I'm racist and watch fox news right?
Enjoy your kool-aid. Seriously.

>>216485
>Sourceless "facts"
http://www.freenation.org/a/f12l3.html
both images I showed you had countless sources at the bottom.
>a centralized government run health care system has laws in place that don't discriminate against patients
Bullshit it does that ALL THE TIME.
A decentralized system would fit the need of every person, there's always profit to be made.

>aren't OUT TO MAKE A PROFIT
NO FUCKING SHIT
THAT MEANS THEY DON'T HAVE TO ACTUALLY SERVE SOCIETY
Profit is good.
Food companies make profit, they have increase human living standards dramatically by constantly lowering their prices.
Are they "evil"?

Kill yourself.

>what's supposed to keep health care being monopolized
WHAT?
The government is what monopolized healthcare in the fucking FIRST PLACE.

Doctors were complaining that it was impossible to cartelize in a free market, that's why they went to the fucking government in the first place.

>inb4 muhh free markets
Look at the FACTS you dumb faggot, holy shit.
Stop believing baseless stories.

>universal-healthcare-doesnt-mean-waiting-longer-to-see-a-doctor
This is a BLATANT LIE.
SERIOUSLY.
Everyone knows there are waiting lines.

>mean nothing for people who are denied health care in the first place.
In a free market everyone would be fucking covered like they USED TO BE

[Anonymous No.216508]

>>216488
>An anarchist believes these things can be private too.

Didn't they believe that humans would not do war on each other due to purity of heart?

[Anonymous No.216513]

>>216485
>http://blogs.vancouversun.com/tag/u-s-vs-canadian-health-care-costs/

>HEY GUYS AMERICA HAS A FREE MARKET IN HEALTHCARE, I'M ACTUALLY RETARDED ENOUGH TO MAKE THIS ARGUMENT
>PLEASE TAKE ME SERIOUSLY

Oh god, you're actually this dumb.

>Tell me how it isn't psychopathy to deny health care for many to ensure health care for the few?
That's exactly what you want, cunt.
I want healthcare for everyone, I don't want it monopolized.
I don't want to threaten people with murder who try to treat patients
Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.216524]

>>216502
Again, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and apparently you can't read either. I didn't ask about wait times, I asked about deaths caused by wait times. Your implication was that wait times are bad because they cause fatalities, and this is blatant bullshit.

You probably are racist. No biggy, I am too to a degree. And you're definitely a dumb kid

[Anonymous No.216517]

>>216481
A Libertarian is someone who believes the State, as an institution of monopoly, elitism, parasitism, and aggression, is best kept tasked with the affairs than require these attributes. As such they believe the improvement of human welfare, i.e., providing cheaper or better services, is not one it will ever do well, and in fact would only harm these enterprises if it tried. The State will, meanwhile, would excel at any enterprises that require aggression; theft, murder, or slavery.

[Anonymous No.216518]

>>216508
>Didn't they believe that humans would not do war on each other due to purity of heart?
No.
and there are countless examples of anarchism working
http://royhalliday.home.mindspring.com/history.htm

>>216485
Also this is the last time I am going to post this.

Healthcare in america is the opposite of a free market.

Stop making bullshit strawman arguments.

[Anonymous No.216522]

>>216508

Anarchists are essentially the political equivalent of radical religions. They don't need to make sense.

[Anonymous No.216533]

>>216395
>Mises
>Cato
It's like you purposely look for information to make yourself feel better rather than gathering evidence and discerning facts from misconceptions

[Anonymous No.216534]

>>216524
>I asked about deaths caused by wait times.

>implying all of these deaths are recorded
>implying being treated for lung cancer 8 months instead of 2 weeks doesn't cause it to grow an expand

This is common sense.

>and this is blatant bullshit.
>CANCER DOESN'T GROW OVER TIME GUYS
>YOU DON'T NEED TO CATCH THESE THINGS EARLY

Say that to my uncle and my next door neighbour your piece of shit.

>You probably are racist
hahahaha nice, go back to your youngturks huffpo msnbc hugbox where they tell you what to think you psychopathic piece of shit.

Back to reddit kiddo.

[Anonymous No.216537]

>>216502

>http://www.freenation.org/a/f12l3.html
>freenation.org

My sides oh fuck.

Why are libertards so delusional and hopeless.

>Bullshit it does that ALL THE TIME.

No, insurance companies in a decentralized market do that all the time. If the marginal profit is less than the marginal cost of signing on a patient, they'll dump em or reject em. Governments have laws that make sure this shit doesn't happen.

>A decentralized system would fit the need of every person, there's always profit to be made.
>fit the need of every person

How the fuck are you so devoid of basic logic? No company would sign on someone with a pre-existing medical condition or someone who works manual labor and is susceptible to health risks or etc etc. These companies that try to "fit the need" of those specific people, of which make up a huge portion of the US pop, would go under because they just can't make a PROFIT out of them. This is why your shitty free market system is a failure.

>This is a BLATANT LIE. SERIOUSLY. Everyone knows there are waiting lines

>looks at URL of link
>doesn't actually click it
>too afraid of actual statistics, facts and studies

Stay in that bubble of yours, must be comfy living in Galt's Landing.

Quit living in the past for fuck's sakes. In our present modern day world you can't name one "free market" health care system that is as efficient as a publicly run one.

[Anonymous No.216538]

>>216485
IT IS THE YEAR 2081
RADICAL RIGHT-LEANING EXTREMISTS DEMAND AND END TO GOVERNMENT FOOD SUPPLY, SAYS FREE MARKET CAN DO IT BETTER

SENSIBLE PEOPLE EVERYWHERE ARE ASKING:
-What if one of your "private food distribution centers" decides to charge insanely high prices for food, starving everyone?
- What's to stop one of these "private food distribution centers" from building a wall around me and them to force me to buy THEIR food?
- What if the free market doesn't innovate a solution to my Lactose intolerance or Gluten allergies?
- Isn't food just too important to leave in the hands of private individuals?

[Anonymous No.216540]

>>216533
>It's like you purposely look for information to make yourself feel better
mises and cato were just several of the sources quoted, there were also several mainstream sources. Also the cato and mises articles themselves are sourced by mainstream sources.

The things posted in that image are common facts. Are you actually denying the AMA even exists?

You people are religious fundamentalists.

>rather than gathering evidence and discerning facts from misconceptions
That's exactly what this image does if you weren't scared to read it.

[Anonymous No.216541]

>>216534
Ah ok, no data to back up these ridiculous claims of yours. I suppose we're just supposed to take it on faith then eh? You'd like that, all your right wingers are coocoo for jesus and faith and all that silliness. And I do loves me some huffpo

[Anonymous No.216548]

>>216513

>>HEY GUYS AMERICA HAS A FREE MARKET IN HEALTHCARE

It isn't completely free market but it is more so than Canada or the European/Scandinavian systems.

Free markets aren't an on and off switch, it's a gradient, you dumb shitstain.

[Anonymous No.216550]

>>216540
If the Mises and Cato articles are sourced by other articles it's literally a fucking circle jerk of talking points and bogus stats. Kill yourself for not realizing all that information has been cited circularly.

[Anonymous No.216551]

>>216538
>what if one of your "private food distribution centers" decides to charge insanely high prices for food

Funny enough, this is one of the reasons we have food subsidies (that and to prevent us from becoming dependent on foreign food supplies).

[Anonymous No.216556]

>>216537
>My sides oh fuck.
>OH GOD HE'S POSTING FACTS ABOUT FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE MAKE HIM STOP
Okay here's some more sources from that article.

David T. Beito. "The 'Lodge Practice Evil' Reconsidered: Medical Care Through Fraternal Societies, 1900-1930." (unpublished)

David T. Beito. "Mutual Aid for Social Welfare: The Case of American Fraternal Societies." Critical Review, Vol. 4, no. 4 (Fall 1990).

David Green. Reinventing Civil Society: The Rediscovery of Welfare Without Politics. Institute of Economic Affairs, London, 1993.

David Green. Working Class Patients and the Medical Establishment: Self-Help in Britain from the Mid-Nineteenth Century to 1948. St. Martin's Press, New York, 1985.

David Green & Lawrence Cromwell. Mutual Aid or Welfare State: Australia's Friendly Societies. Allen & Unwin, Sydney, 1984.

P. Gosden. The Friendly Societies in England, 1815-1875. Manchester University Press, Manchester, 1961.

P. Gosden. Self-Help: Voluntary Associations in the 19th Century. Batsford Press, London, 1973.

Albert Loan. "Institutional Bases of the Spontaneous Order: Surety and Assurance." Humane Studies Review, Vol. 7, no. 1, 1991/92.

Leslie Siddeley. "The Rise and Fall of Fraternal Insurance Organizations." Humane Studies Review, Vol. 7, no. 2, 1992.

S. David Young. The Rule of Experts: Occupational Licensing in America. Cato Institute, Washington, 1987.

>Why are libertards so delusional and hopeless.
Lol the damage control lol oh lawd

>No, insurance companies in a decentralized market do that all the time.
I just posted blatant facts showing there were very little "insurance" companies in a free market in medical care.

We don't have a free market now. How DUMB are you?
Seriously. Are you going to keep spewing this strawman?

>If the marginal profit is less than the marginal cost of signing on a patient, they'll dump em or reject em.
Yes, now, because healthcare costs keep increasing due to government policy, they used to be far far cheaper.

[Anonymous No.216565]

>>216524
>You probably are racist.

>Discussion on healthcare
>Call the "republican" a racist
Never change liberals, never change

[Anonymous No.216563]

>>216551
But that's wrong. U.S. Government intervention in agriculture is to keep food prices artificially high for the purpose of keeping excess farms in business and farmhands employed. It is, in every sense of the word, a cartelization device. If the Government were to allow a free market in food, a lot of farms would be forced to exit the business, unable to make profits from produce that's dirt cheap.

Paying farmers not to farm some years has the same effect, in the manner of keeping supply limited.

[Anonymous No.216574]

>>216537
>Governments have laws that make sure this shit doesn't happen.
Governments created the problem in the fucking first place by making healthcare expensive you boot licking faggot.

> No company would sign on someone with a pre-existing medical condition
Health insurance companies wouldn't be where people get there medical care you dumb cocksucker, holy shit.

People would have savings to pay for these things out of pocket and the prices would be about 5-10% of what they are right now(like they USED TO BE)

>This is why your shitty free market system is a failure.
DUUUUURRRRR MURRICA HAS FREE MARKET IN MEDICAL CARE CUZ THE TV AND MEDIA TOLD ME SO
My fuck are you a brainwashed shill.

>Stay in that bubble of yours,
What BUBBLE?
I LIVE in a country with socialized medicine.
My father had to go to the united states to get treated or it would have taken 8 months and his cancer would have spread.

I just posted an image showing that you're a fucking liar, everyone knows this.

>Galt's Landing.
Ayn Rand was a cunt.
lol any more strawman arguments you heard on msnbc for me to debunk?

[Anonymous No.216579]

>>216565
Why does it bother you to be called a racist? Why deny it it publicly, because it's so taboo? Just fucking embrace it, admit that you don't like black people, this is 4chan, no one here is going to give a shit

[Anonymous No.216581]

>>216541
>Ah ok, no data to back up these ridiculous claims of yours.
I just posted the data.
Are you blind?

Go back to your bible study classes.

>And I do loves me some huffpo
Thought so you self hating authoritarian.

>>216548
>It isn't completely free market but it is more so than Canada or the European/Scandinavian systems.
So?

Singapore and Switzerland have an even more free market system and theirs is far less expensive than anyones.

>Free markets aren't an on and off switch
They are when you intentionally manipulate prices to increase them.

>you dumb shitstain.
Murder yourself and your family.

>>216550
>are sourced by other articles
Yes, my mainstream articles and books.

> has been cited circularly.
It's NOT was my point.

[Anonymous No.216584]

>>216579
>Why does it bother you to be called a racist? Why deny it it publicly, because it's so taboo? Just fucking embrace it, admit that you don't like black people, this is 4chan, no one here is going to give a shit


My sides just can't take it anymore, liberals are like frightened animals.

I bet you think everyone who disagrees with you is a republican too.

Get the fuck off /biz/.

[Anonymous No.216595]

How come no one has mentioned that income doesn't pay for most of things op listed?

>Schools are paid for by property tax.
>Highways are paid for by gasoline tax.
>Military is paid for by corporate tax.
>Sales taxes pay for an array of local needs.
>Social Security tax pays for welfare programs

Or am I missing something?

[Anonymous No.216599]

>>216556
>>216574

Oh man those sources.

>half are opinion papers with few stats to back them up
>other half are from more than 40 years ago

I just went through Google and got RECENT statistics to show you why you are wrong about everything you've said. Are you seriously arguing against math with muhh opinions and ideology? You are fucking retarded.

>I just posted blatant facts showing there were very little "insurance" companies in a free market in medical care.

Those fraternal societies WERE basically insurance companies. They chose who could afford to pay for health care and who couldn't. How are you so blind?

>Yes, now, because healthcare costs keep increasing due to government policy, they used to be far far cheaper.
>Governments created the problem in the fucking first place by making healthcare expensive you boot licking faggot.
>People would have savings to pay for these things out of pocket and the prices would be about 5-10% of what they are right now(like they USED TO BE)

Like I fucking said, free markets are a gradient. The US is decidedly less decentralized than Canada, Europe and other places. We can agree on that, no? And yet I've given you FACTS and NUMBERS that show that with a heavily centralized system health care is still far more inexpensive than the mess you have in the States, even if its not "muhh perfect visage of a free market".

Now seriously, get educated. You have the internet. Google this shit yourself.

Centralized health cares gives you

>greater life expectancy
>cheaper and affordable health care

And most importantly

>you aren't going to get rejected by Steinberg & Shekelstein because your great great grandaddy had cancer

[Anonymous No.216603]

>>216581
>I just posted the data.
>Are you blind?

lol goddamn your reading comprehension sucks. Alright, I really I am done this time- your stupidity has been highly entertaining and has further justified my opinion on libertarians, but I gotta get back to work. Enjoy being young and stupid, it won't last forever

[Anonymous No.216612]

>>216581

>Singapore and Switzerland have an even more free market system and theirs is far less expensive than anyones.

My fucking sides, you can't be this autistic. Singapore doesn't have a free market health care system, it's run by the Ministry of Health.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/29/most-efficient-healthcare_n_3825477.html

Same thing for the Swiss

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Switzerland
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/04/29/why-switzerland-has-the-worlds-best-health-care-system/

[Anonymous No.216622]

>>216599
>Oh man those sources.
Are real?
This isn't even funny anymore. You're actually denying the fact fraternal mutual aid societies existed lol

>>other half are from more than 40 years ago
OH NO YOU MEAN STATISTICS AND DATA ABOUT SOCIETIES THAT EXISTED IN THE 1900s-1910s are from 40 years ago?
THAT MUST MEAN THEY'RE WRONG

>I just went through Google and got RECENT statistics to show you why you are wrong about everything you've said.
Where? lol
Please show them to me.
Oh wait you don't have them and you're wrong.

>Those fraternal societies WERE basically insurance companies.
No they really weren't.

>They chose who could afford to pay for health care and who couldn't.
It's funny because they accepted everyone lol

> The US is decidedly less decentralized than Canada, Europe and other places.
The US has policies in place that dramatically increase the price of healthcare far more than socialized medicine increases them.

The facts remain that a free market in healthcare allowed you to work for one day and have enough healthcare for the entire year.

Does this anger you?

>And yet I've given you FACTS and NUMBERS
Lol no you haven't.
Healthcare is the most regulated, controlled and monopolized market in america. There's no price mechanisms.

Healthcare is far far cheaper in countries with more market based systems like singapore and switzerland.

Does this anger you?

[Anonymous No.216629]

>>216603
No matter how angry you get at the data it still won't change the facts you edgy teenager.

>>216612
>Singapore doesn't have a free market health care system
I NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT YOU DUMB CUNT
AHHAHAHHA

Dude you're such a fucking dumbass it's incredible.

I said it's the most market based, most healthcare is paid out of pocket.

[Anonymous No.216636]

It's absolutely incredible these bootlickers are begging their government to monopolize their healthcare industry and kill any doctor that tries to practice medicine on his own.

It's crazy these people want to destroy all medical innovation and allow a bunch of criminals to decide whether people live or die.

It's incredible they don't want everyone to be able to afford high quality medicine.

It's incredible they're against anti-aging technologies and innovation.

[Anonymous No.216639]

>>216599
>>you aren't going to get rejected by Steinberg & Shekelstein because your great great grandaddy had cancer

I want /pol/ nat soc morons to leave.

"durr socialism is good if it's against the joos"

[Anonymous No.216643]

>>216639
Nazis and marxists are basically the same shit.

[Anonymous No.216648]

>>216622

>Where? lol

See >>216612
>>216485

>dat reading comprehension

>It's funny because they accepted everyone lol

Except they didn't.

http://osf1.gmu.edu/~ihs/s92essay.html
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/Documents/Fraternal-Benefit-Societies-Report-to-Congress-1-15-1993.pdf

>The US has policies in place that dramatically increase the price of healthcare far more than socialized medicine increases them.

Like what?

>>216629

>I NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT
>I said it's the most market based, most healthcare is paid out of pocket.

Did you not read the fucking links I sent you or is cognitive dissonance just at play here?

>individuals are required to contribute a percentage of their monthly salary based on age to a personal fund to pay for treatments and hospital expenditures. In addition, the government provides a safety net to cover expenses for which these personal savings are inadequate. Private health care still plays a role in Singapore's system, but takes a backseat to public offerings, which boast the majority of doctors, nurses, and procedures performed.

[Anonymous No.216655]

>>216427
>>216466
>>216481

libertarianism = anarchism for rich people

[Anonymous No.216660]

>>216648

Oh and these too for Singapore and HK respectively

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/28/conservatives-love-obamacare-when-it-s-singaporecare.html
http://www.news.gov.hk/en/record/html/2013/04/20130409_190409.shtml

[Anonymous No.216665]

OP here, I was just interested in the issues of abolishing income tax and whatever or not it's viable.

[Anonymous No.216675]

>>216665
I've always thought that maybe switching to a consumption based tax would end up being better and just subsidize the poor so they won't be affected as harshly.

[Anonymous No.216678]

>>216648
>See >>216612
Then I fucking told you how you were creating a massive strawman argument and were therefore wrong.

>http://osf1.gmu.edu/~ihs/s92essay.html
>http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/Documents/Fraternal-Benefit-Societies-Report-to-Congress-1-15-1993.pdf
You're posting links(one of the links I fucking gave you lol)
without offering any explanation.
They actually did accept everyone.
ESPECIALLY minorities, which was the funny part
Like a quarter of the nation belonged to these societies.
You mad?

>Like what?
The fucking image that explains every single one in precise detail has been posted THREE TIMES in this thread.

>>I said it's the most market based,
Exactly.
That's still correct.
It's still not a "free" market.

Are you actually this dumb?

You might want to read this.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2012/03/09/the-myth-of-free-market-american-health-care/
>>216655
If you don't like it, leave /biz/

[Anonymous No.216680]

>>216665
>OP here, I was just interested in the issues of abolishing income tax and whatever or not it's viable.
It is viable and would allow us to abolish poverty and increase everyone's living standards as well.

We need to abolish the federal reserve too.

I want a 2 day work week, FUCK socialism.

[Anonymous No.216726]

Why don't liberals realize libertarians are the main ones against health insurance cartels.

The same cartels that LIBERALS created.

[Anonymous No.216759]

>>216726

The first five letters are the same. Most of the modern, especially, hippy-like liberals talking about wealth redistribution aren't that familiar with economics.

[Anonymous No.216785]

>>216678

I don't really see much of a rebuttal in those links but you didn't really post any proof that those fraternal societies you were talking about never denied anyone healthcare. Onus is on you to prove that.

[Anonymous No.216791]

>>216785
>but you didn't really post any proof that those fraternal societies you were talking about never denied anyone healthcare
Before they existed healthcare(like everything else in the country and the entire fucking WORLD was expensive) their existence made healthcare cheap for everyone.

It's a shame you idiots cannot imagine a society where people live in peace with one another.

[Anonymous No.216793]

>>216680

I'm not sure if this was sarcastic or not.

[Anonymous No.216798]

>>216793
>I'm not sure if this was sarcastic or not.
It's not.

[Anonymous No.216807]

>>216791

Stop avoiding the question.

Do you have any proof that these frat societies accepted everyone that applied to them?

[Anonymous No.216815]

>>216678
>If you don't like it, leave /biz/

I wasn't complaining.
>trust fund baby master race

[Anonymous No.216823]

>>216807
>Do you have any proof that these frat societies accepted everyone that applied to them?
They didn't accept everyone, it's financially impossible to accept everyone. Just how it's impossible for the government to serve everyone healthcare without expanding production first.

It's just they accepted most people(especially blacks and minorities) and if for some reason they didn't accept you, you could go somewhere else.

If we had a system like this today, we would have no much wealth that it would be impossible for anyone not to receive timely medical care.

[Anonymous No.216838]

>>216823

>They didn't accept everyone, it's financially impossible to accept everyone.

>>216678

>They actually did accept everyone

Your not very good at this area you.

[Anonymous No.216847]

>>216838
>Your not very good at this area you.

So far in this thread we have proven that a system of free market medical care is far far better than a state run system where doctors are threatened with murder and shot in the brain.

I'll take cheap medical care and a fuckload of medical research, over a system that threatens to kill doctors that don't comply.

Kindly kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.216866]

>>216395
Intellectual property is property, you fool. Are you aware that you can be a Libertarian without being retarded?
Step 1 is to stop learning about economics from /pol/ and anyone who describes themselves as an Austrian economist.

[Anonymous No.216876]

>>216866
>Intellectual property is property, you fool.
No, it's not.
and almost all libertarians don't believe in intellectual property

> Are you aware that you can be a Libertarian without being retarded?
Does the fact we are right about everything upset you?

>Step 1 is to stop learning about economics from /pol/ and anyone who describes themselves as an Austrian economist.
Why don't you read a fucking book once in a while instead of getting all of your opinions from msnbc?

[Anonymous No.216905]

>>216876
>and almost all libertarians don't believe in intellectual property

time to stop posting, you're embarrasing yourself.

[Anonymous No.216918]

>>216345
Prior to 1913 the US had no income tax. We raised an army when it was needed. The brass was constant, and they were funded by government income from tariffs and use fees.

[Anonymous No.216931]

>>216427
>>216466

One has a government, the other doesn't.

If you don't even know the basics about different forms of social order, maybe you shouldn't talk about them, and instead go fucking learn the difference yourself. You have very nearly all of the information ever accumulated by man at your fingertips. There is NO excuse not to know the difference between those two.

[Anonymous No.216938]

>>216876
Do you know why medicine is so expensive in the US? It only costs a few cents to make a pill, so why do they cost hundreds of dollars each?
The answer is that pharmaceutical companies spend billions of dollars in research for each pill which successfully passes FDA testing.
At this point, they have a patent which lasts 13 years. Unfortunately for us, just about every country but America has strict controls on how much a company can charge for medicine. If a company refuses to comply with the price controls, the country steals the pill recipe, and allows generic manufacturers to make it illegally. As a result, companies are forced to basically price gouge in America in order to recoup their tremendous investment.
Without recognizing intellectual property as legally defensible, do you think any corporation would invest that much money in something their competitors can immediately take and sell?

[Anonymous No.216959]

>>216876
>>216938
Also, I know you're a troll. I just wanted to rant about America getting the shit end of the stick.

[Anonymous No.216965]

>>216938
>Unfortunately for us, just about every country but America has strict controls on how much a company can charge for medicine.

WAIT LOL

YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT IS THE FUCKING REASON

HAHAHAHHAHA

OH GOD

Why can't people charge a trillion dollars for an apple?

Why can't people charge a trillion dollars for a laptop?

Why is healthcare the only industry where people can charge crazy prices?

Are you seriously this dumb?

Abolish these government economic controls which allow people to do this and the problem will be solved.

[Anonymous No.216968]

>>216959
>Also, I know you're a troll.
I'm not a troll you dumb faggot.

[Anonymous No.216984]

>>216965
>Abolish these government economic controls which allow people to do this and the problem will be solved.
Did you even read my fucking post? I was blaming government controls for the high prices.

[Anonymous No.218047]

>>216584

I don't understand the meme.