is this a flaw with the Kleros judiciary system?

[Anonymous No.25344885]

if the jurors lose their stake if their decision was not in the majority, how can we expect a fair verdict? wouldn't most people just vote for the side that they think will win? this seems like it encourages people to ignore the verdict they believe to be true in favor of the benefits of being on the right side.

because of this, could it even be possible to reach fair and honest verdict if the jurors are only trying to be on the correct side to get the ETH bonus instead of the ethically correct side?

/biz/ please explain, am I a dumbass or is Kleros flawed for punishing the minority jurors?

[Anonymous No.25344926]

>>25344885
why do you think the 'true verdict' and the 'common verdict' would be different? can you give an example?

[Anonymous No.25344936]

>>25344885
If Trump wins on the 6th of Jan, The jury needs to be shot.
Political retards.

[Anonymous No.25344943]

Sir have faith in the village jurors

[Anonymous No.25344946]

>>25344885
just look at this shit

[Anonymous No.25344961]

>>25344936
No sir the bet was who would win election not presidency kleros outcome very valid. Just like when Al gore won election but Bush won the presidency.

[Anonymous No.25344980]

>>25344885
Confucius quote "the Superior Man understands what is right, the Inferior Man understands what will sell"

[Anonymous No.25344996]

>>25344946
>>25344885
wtf is this samefaggotry?

[Anonymous No.25345021]

>>25344926
woman rapes a man, ethically it is immoral and the woman should be considered guilty.

but the tard jurors will be like "Guys is just a woman men cant be raped"

this happens in America all the time, the woman is guilty but gets out free.

the true verdict would be guilty but because the other jurors know that the majority would likely choose not gulty, they also choose not gulty to avoid loosing their stake.

this system would encourage groupthink. a judicial system cannot be built on the back of people who are encouraged to engage in the groupthink

[Anonymous No.25345035]

>>25344885
Yes this is a glaring flaw with the design. Juriors should not have a financial stake in the decision of the outcome they are voting upon. Thats a clear conflict of interest and why this coin is a fucking retarded shitcoin.

>>25344926
OJ Simpson trial. Obviously guilty, if you voted guilty you would have been financially penalized.

[Anonymous No.25345040]

>>25344980
EXACTLY, there are far more inferior men than superior men. your options are loose your stake or dishonor your moral compass

[Anonymous No.25345057]

>>25344996
Yeah it's the same guy, he's defending his position

[Anonymous No.25345060]

>>25344996
yes, its me op

[Anonymous No.25345081]

>>25344946
Btw this was pulled of the Kleros website, it is irrefutable evidence

[Anonymous No.25345094]

>>25345021
>>25345035
besides the fact that criminal cases are not the focus of kleros, the real answer is that its the entire point.
kleros is a groupthink machine, plain and simple. if you think that's inappropriate for your use, don't use it. it's quite similar to how US courts words things as 'how would a reasonable person view this' not 'how would you view this'
>>25345060
>>25345081
ok, looked like you were samefagging a response, and lmao @ irrefutable evidence, that's how it works newfag

[Anonymous No.25345123]

ultimately this draws the conclusion that Kleros will likely not be used en mass because of this flaw in justice, a person who uses this system would expect the True verdict, not the groupthink chosen one.

[Anonymous No.25345154]

>>25345123
yet, both examples leveled against it are example where regular courts also fail. the true verdict is the groupthink one 99% of the time.
maybe you fell the for the court meme, it's arbitration case, not actual laws, that are being decided.

[Anonymous No.25345169]

>>25345094
we have already shown that the courts cannot be reasonable, my idea also doesn't factor in cultural differences. if it is a crowd sourced jury what would happen when a feminist extremist gets in the same jury as a devout Muslim?

[Anonymous No.25345218]

>>25345154
usually small claims courts use a judge to solve the arbitration, but when you introduce a jury to something like this they have little moral and legal bound that hold them to what they believe vs what they think others believe

[Anonymous No.25345240]

>>25345123
Groupthink becomes the true verdict even if its not true. Its that simple.

[Anonymous No.25345268]

its going to degrade into "big boobie lady is right because BOOBAS"

[Anonymous No.25345276]

>>25345218
exactly. the court is meant to arrive at what most people would believe, it's that simple. this is sufficient for 99% of cases.
pic attached - these are the things it's used for, not tricky moral judgements

[Anonymous No.25345285]

The system could actually be better than traditional courts because in kleros each member of the jury has an incentive to pay attention, whereas in court members of the jury could switch off and trust the nerd juror to do all their thinking for them.

[Anonymous No.25345294]

>>25345240
would you ever involve yourself in a arbitration where you are subject to the groupthink instead of what is just? you couldn't possibly get both parties to agree if one of them knows that they could possibly get screwed by groupthink

[Anonymous No.25345297]

>>25344961

But trump won both

[Anonymous No.25345315]

>>25345285
You would also avoid a lot of the traditional judicial crap like picking jurors based on their demographics to suit your case, e.g. choosing black jurors to acquit OJ Simpson. Kleros is random global jurors

[Anonymous No.25345334]

>>25345315
half of the planet has an IQ below 100, do you really want half of your jury consisting of them?

[Anonymous No.25345395]

>>25345294
>what is just?
again, kleros isn't meant to determine 'justness' or morality. Simply weather a contract was fulfilled as agreed or not.
>>25345334
it already does. better a selection of them with financial interest in providing the group think answer than 1 rando sub 100 IQ arbitrator.

regardless, it's becoming clear your just trolling for replies here

[Anonymous No.25345406]

>>25345334
not to mention the fact that they pay you if you are in the majority, how many Venezuelans do you think will be doing this shit?

[Anonymous No.25345446]

>>25345395
I'm not trying to troll, i want to show you that your fate will lie in the hands of retarded south Americans who will vote for the majority to pay for bread for their kids. this system can be EASILY abused. would any professional put the fate of their contract in the hands of these people?

[Anonymous No.25345515]

>>25345276
The Marketing Services subcourt seems ripe for that Stonetoss cartoon where the guy gets kicked out of the window.

“How does this commercial with interracial romance help us sell hamburgers?”
“Hamburgers?”

[Anonymous No.25345741]

>>25345094
Irony of calling him newfag when you can't even read ids you fucking redditor

[Anonymous No.25346431]

SIRS

[Anonymous No.25346460]

>>25345094
And what power does Kleros have to enforce their verdicts? Absolutely none. The coin makes zero sense and is deeply flawed.

[Anonymous No.25346600]

>>25344885
Game theory. It relies on people trying to guess, what will be the final outcome. Even if a juror thinks the current majority seems to be voting wrong, it still incentivizes to vote against the majority in this round. That's because after a possible appeal, and once a final verdict is reached, the jurors voting with the final majority on the case, will be paid the stakes of the jurors voting agains the final majority, on all rounds of the case.

So you can only win voting against what you think is right, if the majority in the current round is voting with you, AND there will not be an appeal to overturn that verdict.

[Anonymous No.25346620]

>>25344885

[Anonymous No.25346649]

>>25346600
You could also just collude with a majority of jurors. Jurors having a financial incentive makes NO SENSE and is extremely flawed. There are multiple other reasons as to why Kleros is useless and broke

[Anonymous No.25346704]

>>25345395
you haven't coherently answered any of OP's questions retard. why dont you stop shitting up the thread with your retardation.

>>25344885
kleros is far far far more compromised than what you are presenting. you are going far too deep into it where its flaws are much more systemic.
due to the online nature, its 100% ripe for collusion. (look at online poker markets for the extent people will go to collude to consistently win money).
if kleros would even moderately get used (it wont), there would immediately spring up 10 different discord channels for each court case where jurors got together to collude.
in the end reasonable >125iq people understand this, therefore thats why no one will use it.
its just a pile of shit to scam retards

[Anonymous No.25346786]

>>25346649
Well, for starters, in most cases you shouldn't expect there to be anyone losing or gaining stakes, but only receive the juror reward. Stakes will only be reallocated in the case where the vote wasn't unanimous.

Then for the collusion: how can you know, there's not another group, trying to make it look like there's a majority vote, while secretly still creating another, smaller minority against that vote? You can't, unless you personally know and trust all the jurors (which you can't in the long run), which brings it back to game theory.