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28277317 No.28277317 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Do I really need to be super autistic about protecting my 24 word seed? Especially if I have a passphrase hidden wallet which cant be accessed with just the 24 word seed...

I mean, who the fuck would even know what it is, who'd be breaking into my house? As if some high test criminal brute would have any idea what the fuck that is. The only people who would know what it is are low test tech geeks, not some random druggy criminal looking for something easy to steal..

I keep the seed hidden in plain sight as well, its not hidden away, or hidden in some safe. I feel like putting it in a safe would make it more likely to get stolen, because a thief would just steal the entire safe, assuming you have money or something in there, they'd probably just throw your seed away if they got the safe and opened it only to find a piece of paper with 24 words on it.


What % of normies, let alone rando criminals, who are doing REAL LIFE break ins, would even know what the FUCK it is to begin with? Makes me think people are way too paranoid about someone stealing their keys.

Fire/Water protection I understand...but you can always just keep copy of your seed at your grandparents house in a book or something. I doubt your house and your grandparents house burns down on the same day at the same time, you wouldn't have our passphrase on it either, so even if by 1 in 1 billion chance someone who knows what it is saw it, and took it, they wouldn't get your crypto, because they dont have the passphrase.

>> No.28277460
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28277460

>>28277317
add some more random non-sense below the 24 words. If I was a thief and found that paper in a safe it would make me think it's valuable and research it.

>> No.28277537

>>28277317
>not simply memorizing all 24 words
ngmi

>> No.28277617

>>28277460
which is why i dont bother having a safe....

like I said, i keep my 24 word seed hidden in plain sight

if a criminal is rushing into my house looking for some quick valuables, theyre not going to bother looking at or taking some paper with some hand written writing on it....

theyre going for shit like phones, laptops, money, jewelry, car keys, etc

>> No.28277802

I have my key written on the inside wall above my closet door. I just wrote it in sharpie and only me and you retards know about it.

>> No.28278702

>>28277317
If you got a passphrase of sufficient lenght to your seed, you can literally post it on normiebook and everything will be alright.
The real question is how do you secure the passphrase, which in this case is your secret.
In case you have a significant amount of crypto you do not want to rely on your memory (which is very fragile) and might want to make it accessible to someone in case you die of a heart attack tomorrow, which may not be likely, but could totally happen.
Also I do not agree with your idea of people not recognizing your seed as one and it thus being safe in plain sight, even if a burglar has never heard of it before, it would be trivial to figure out what these 24 words could be, given minimal suspection and curiousity. Also every nog is posting about his lil bitcoin stock nowadays, so chances are the public awareness about seed phrases protecting crypto wallets is on the rise.

>> No.28278775

>>28277617
>hidden in plain sight
like the jews do

>> No.28278824
File: 67 KB, 1010x567, bearface.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28278824

>>28277802
And the glowies reading this thread

>> No.28279040

>>28277617
>>28278702
Dumb question here, but is the seed wallet-specific or can you extract the actual private key from it using a general algorithm?

>> No.28279090

>>28277317
heaps of criminals unironically know about crypto and regularly scam people for it, if you're in a first world country slight odds they might know what it is

>> No.28279111

I wrote it in my native language (in how it's pronounced) so it looks like gibberish no one would give it a second glance

>> No.28279266

Guys, I forgot to write down the seed phrase for my binance account, but I did write down the security key, am I screwed? Is there a way to recover the seed phrase? I still have access to my account, if that's a factor

>> No.28279315

>>28277317
It's only important if you are stupid enough not to keep your mouth shut about your crypto wealth

>> No.28280653

>>28279040
you derive all private keys from the seed using a general algo.
this way you can generate endless wallets even for different chains from one secret. look up BIP39 if interested in specifics.

>> No.28281367

>>28279040
>>28280653
Might have got your question wrong.
Seed phrase in general means BIP39, which is kind of an industry standard and is used by most wallets.
There might be some issues with wallet software using different derivation paths to generate private keys for some obscure shitcoins but cryptographically all information is in your seed phrase. BTC, ETH, XMR and all the major ones are typically 100% compatible.

>> No.28282363

>>28277317
>he could choose 12
>he chose 24
>why not

>> No.28282397 [DELETED] 

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO

SEE HOW THEY TRY TO SHOW YOU THIS RUBBISH
“TOP SYSTEM” “BEST INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY” “GREAT GEM”
WHAT AN IDIOTS OMYGOD
IF YOU WANT TO GET REAL EARNINGS FROM NFT - CHECK PLAYCENT

DON’T BE IDIOT WHO BELIEVES IN EVERY TRASH - VISIT FIRST - USE YOUR IQ

>> No.28282442

>>28282363
offline hardware wallet i use (trezor one) forces me to do 24 words

>> No.28282531

>>28277317
my key phrase is tattood around my arsehole, in a ring that no one would ever think to look for, I just use the mirror when I need it.

>> No.28282586

>>28277317
thats why I have fake safes all over my house filled with Bricks.

>> No.28282600

>>28282442
>mfw the probability of someone hitting the same address when creating a wallet is same with 12 or 24 words

>> No.28282797

>>28282531
did you silence your tattoo artist

>>28282600
what is basic math
obviously the probability on 12 words is orders of magnitude higher while still being astronomically slim

>> No.28282878

>>28279266
>binance account
>seed
6/10 bait

>> No.28283072

>>28277317
if you have a strong passphrase then no the most important thing is redundancy (not to lose the 24 words)

>> No.28283246

>>28282797
Yeah, says someone who also says
>If you got a passphrase of sufficient lenght to your seed, you can literally post it on normiebook and everything will be alright.

>> No.28283282

>>28282397
thanks for the arb, dropped a hard eth

>> No.28283370

>>28277617
Can I come round and play video games with you sometime OP? you sound cool

>> No.28283440

>>28283246
??? doesnt change the fact that your statement
>mfw the probability of someone hitting the same address when creating a wallet is same with 12 or 24 words
is false

>> No.28283493

>>28283246
>>28283440
actually not your statement sorry but WHAT THE FUCK

>> No.28283623

>>28283282
Wow this takes me back.

>> No.28284117

>>28282797
>obviously the probability on 12 words is orders of magnitude higher
>while still being astronomically slim
Fine. Then why would someone need 24 words, when 12 are much more better for brain storage?
It's still being astronomically slim, right?

>> No.28285084

>>28284117
The main reason most wallet implementations shift from 12 to 24 words is actually to make brainlets write it down instead of failing at brainwallets.
Secondary reason is the protection from Grovers algorithm, which may or may not be possible in quantum computing in the foreseeable future and potentially could reduce the security of a 12 word phrase from 128 to just 64 bits, which is considered unsafe in classical computer security. 24 words broken by Grovers however will still give 128 bits of security.

>> No.28285261

>>28277317
The only unknown in all this is how mainstream the 12 - 24 word passwords will become. To the point that burglars will actively start looking for them.
Besides that, you can always do something like scramble them inside a bigger text, or password protect a zip file with the actual info in it.
Multiple layers of protection always help.

>> No.28286332

>>28285084

>> No.28286497

>>28285261
Andreas A (not ur keys, not ur coins) guy, he says that over-complicating hiding your seed is more likely to cause you losing your seed than it is someone to steal it

>> No.28286691

You could make some kind of poem or paragraph with the first word of every sentence being a word from your seed.

>> No.28287099
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28287099

>>28277317
>>28277317
yes you need to be autistic about it. You should code your 24 seed phrase in a way that only you can understand. I am not going to elaborate more but if you brainstorm a bit there are super ways to crypt your passphrase, so that even if someone bumps into it, he will not be able to use it. Just look up for cryptographic coding, etc, all done on paper. Then remember it by heart. Many people have seed phrase leak and then found their ledgers empty, but they don't even know how it leaked

>> No.28287482

>>28285261
>Multiple layers of protection always help.
multiple ways of fucking up.
you need 1 plain text copy, maybe stored in a bank safe or as you said, scrambled.
as long as you dont forget the scheme you used to scramble the text... lol

>> No.28287538

>>28287099
How the fuck would your seed and passphrase get leaked when youre running an offline wallet.

Youre talking about hot wallets online, that are compromised.

>> No.28287575

>>28287099
>I am not going to elaborate
pls elaborate

>> No.28287578

>>28286691
Or just write down a private key in which you shift number or letter on m-th position n-steps up/down.
This way you just remember let's say 2 positions and 2 shifts.
Maybe >>28285084 will have something to say.

>> No.28287662

>>28287538
lol dummie, if anyone sees it for some reason it is leaked. Familly, friends, girlfriend, whatever... Anyone sees it, especially if you keep it "in plain sight" or even in a safe it gets robed while you are away for 2 days... Anyway, do as you will. You have been warned, if you intend to hold for years, the risk is real, the money is big.

>> No.28287742

>>28287538
>seed and passphrase
i thought you were talking about text seed words, not wallet files.

>> No.28287918

>>28287662
I dont have the passphrase with the seed, the seed is written down, and the passphrase is in my head, and my funds are hidden behind the passphrase.

>>28287742
I am talking about text on paper, but the point is, even if someone was to get the 24 word seed and understand what it was, they dont have my passphrase, so they cant access the funds.


Just like the guy in Germany, who has 60,000,000 EUR in bitcoin that was ceased by German supreme court, but they cant actually get the money, despite having the seed, because the guy wont give up the passphrase, which is only in his head.

His 2 year sentence is coming to an end, and he is pretending to have forgotten the passphrase so the funds he stole are safe in his wallet behind the passphrase and the German authorities cant access the funds at all despite having his keys aka his seed.

>> No.28288013

Unironically, is there a seed when you make your metamask wallet? I don't think I wrote it down. I have like 10k on there. Holy shit. Also, just write down 23 of the words and memorize the 24th word. I'm pretty sure that's hard to crack, right?

>> No.28288131

>>28287538
You could, oh I don't know, encrypt it?

https://pteo.paranoiaworks.mobi/

Obviously best to run this offline in their apps

>> No.28288184

>>28287918
>guy in Germany
Question is, whether he has backup of that wallet.

>> No.28288235

>>28288013
You can go into the settings and recover. Obviously you should be using metamask with a hardware wallet by now

>> No.28288240

99% of the public barely know how this shit works ( btC, eth, etc..). I'd say we're still fairly safe and under the radar.

>> No.28288266

>>28288013
>I'm pretty sure that's hard to crack, right?
Isn't. It's pretty easy.

>> No.28288381

>>28288266
Easy as in brute forcing it with part of the seed? Yeah, for nerds it is, heard you can brute force a seed with even half the words. I guess the most important factor is not letting any words leak.

>> No.28288454

>>28288235
I don't have a hardware wallet. Is it really that risky to use a software wallet? I mean if I backup the seed to a USB and encrypt it with a WinRAR password, that's pretty much a hardware wallet?

>> No.28288477

>>28288381
Again, if you have a passphrase (25th custom word) and you keep your funds in that, your 24 word seed alone, they nobody can access your hidden funds (behind the passphrase).

I think im talking to a bunch of software/mobile wallet fags in here who just dont understand what I mean by passphrase.

>> No.28288535

>>28287918
>I am talking about text on paper, but the point is, even if someone was to get the 24 word seed and understand what it was, they dont have my passphrase, so they cant access the funds.
if i have your seed i dont need your passphrase anon.
you use the password to encrypt the WALLET FILE.
the words are unencrypted

>> No.28288544

>>28288454
>I mean if I backup the seed to a USB and encrypt it with a WinRAR password, that's pretty much a hardware wallet?

No, cunt.

The purpose of the hardware wallet is that your seed is generated offline on the device itself, and not online in a software wallet.

>> No.28288631

>>28288535
How would you access my passphrase protected wallet without knowing the passphrase, by just having the 24 word seed?

I think youre misunderstanding what im talking about here

>> No.28288687

>>28288454
Hardware wallets mean you can connect your metamask to sites all over the web but you still have to sign your transactions with your hardware wallet

I would say it's relatively safe but I would be worried about key loggers/ hackers gaining control of your metamask somehow. You do have to log into your metamask sometimes with just a password

It would take a pretty sophisticated hack but I def. like how hardware wallets work with metamask

>> No.28288747

>>28288631
Someone earlier told me I can recover my wallet with the seed.

>> No.28288768

>>28288535
>>28288631
What I think youve misunderstood

1. I dont keep funds on the 24 word seed wallet

2. I keep funds on the hidden wallet, which requires not just the 24 word seed, but the passphrase as well. Without the passphrase, you cant get access to the wallet with my funds on it, even if you have the 24 word seed, you would just open an empty wallet with just entering the 24 word seed, you have also have to enter a passphrase to access the hidden wallet which is associated with the 24 word seed, the passphrase is not associated with the mnemonic phrase in anyway.

>> No.28288894

>>28288687
I think I'll buy a hardware wallet tomorrow. Which one is considered the standard?

>> No.28288930

>>28277317
>not memorizing it
I can recite half of Shakespeare's sonnets by heart, how the fuck are you going to be incapable of remembering 24 words?

>> No.28289009

>>28288477
Does this apply to hardware wallets?

>> No.28289073

>>28288894
I like ledger but I hate their software ledger live. I just create the hardware wallet with their ethereum app and then I never open ledger live again I control it all with metamask. so this works for me in this used to be the suggested hardware wallet but time has passed and I don't know anymore if ledger or trezor is considered better

I can tell you right now that the ledger software is complete shit but then again if you're using ethereum you don't have to use their software except once

>> No.28289079

>>28288930
Not everyone is as autistic as you faggot.

>> No.28289140

>>28288768
>I have a passphrase hidden wallet which cant be accessed with just the 24 word seed...
ooohhh... i missed that part kek.
which wallet is that?

>> No.28289185

I just keep my crypto on the exchange, easy

>> No.28289236

>>28289185
this is unironically the best for most people

>> No.28289297

>>28289140
trezor 1

>>28289185
thats dumb, the crypto on there can simply be an IOU, if they become insolvent, you wont get your crypto, they control your crypto

>> No.28289299

>>28289073
Thanks, mate. Do I have to create a new wallet or can I import the wallet I'm already using?

>> No.28289376

>>28287578
>Or just write down a private key in which you shift number or letter on m-th position n-steps up/down.
Nah, that would be trivial to bruteforce and very overcomplicate things. Also then you'd have to backup the shifting instructions somehow, in case you hit your head or die, which will just be essentially the same problem over and over again.

>>28288184
Pretty sure he has. That is actually a valid case for a brainwallet, plausible deniability, criminal charges, forceful searches. If none of these apply to you, you better write it down.

>>28288013
>memorize the 24th word. I'm pretty sure that's hard to crack, right?
Ahh no, the 24th word is actually a checksum, so many of the 2048 possible bip39 words will work fine. Could easily be guessed manually in a few hours.

>>28288454
Yes, it's very risky. Obviously get a hardware wallet with this amount.

>>28289009
Of course. Applies to any wallet.

>>28289073
I have no problems with recent ledger software desu. But I mainly use it with metamask or monero gui as well

>>28289299
create a new one if the old one has ever been on a device connected to the internet. the idea is to have true cold wallet with offline keys

>> No.28289426

>>28289299
The whole point is to create a new wallet on the ledger mate. Then you import that to metamask. Then you can use metamask as you normally do, you only need the ledger when you send/swap something


If your ledger gets stolen and they type in the wrong pin 3 times it erases the device and only the seed words can restore your wallet.

You aslo have the option of the 25 the word

>> No.28289465

>>28289299
You're obviously just not understanding the entire point of a hardware wallet if youre asking that question over and over again.

The ENTIRE POINT OF A HARDWARE WALLET, IS THAT YOU GENERATE A NEW FRESH SEED, OFFLINE, ON THE DEVICE, NOT ONLINE.

If you buy a hardware wallet, and then just import the seed you have from your software wallet, you have defeated the entire purpose of the hardware wallet, because youve just imported a seed that was generated on a HOT WALLET (a online software wallet)

The point of a hardware wallet is to generate a COLD SEED (a offline hardware wallet) that is never exposed to the internet.

>> No.28289608

Keep one in AES 256 encrypted text file locally, keep one in AES 256 encrypted text file on the cloud, and one written locally in a secure location separate from any valuables with either some words removed or words added (and obviously make sure you remember). Also my handwriting is super messy so no one could read it anyways.

>> No.28289619

Here's a pro tip, if you're really autistic about hiding your seed backup somewhere, and want to not have it on steel or other types of metals in case a nigger with a metal detector comes, there are stones tough enough to withstand the test of time and the elements, while not being susceptible to being found with a metal detector, the only thing difficult about that is engraving on this stones, you need diamond dremel for that.

>> No.28289681

>>28289426
How do I do the 25 word thing?

>> No.28289682

>>28289608
Wrong. If you do that youve just turned a cold seed into a hot seed, which defeats the purpose of cold storage.

>> No.28289743

>>28289376
>>28289465
Metamask isn't even a hot wallet, it's only stored locally in your browser.

So many more people lose wallets due to forgetting/losing it (due to convoluted bullshit) or phishing scams compared to being keylogged or having their hot wallet hacked or whatever else extremely rare bs.

>> No.28289798

>>28289682
It's encrypted you fucking retard faggot. Unless you have a keylogger it makes literally zero fucking difference.

>> No.28289825

>>28289743
THE SEED WAS GENERATED ON YOUR COMPUTER AND IS CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET

THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A HOT WALLET

YOUR SEED WAS NOT GENERATED ON AN OFFLINE DEVICE THAT IS NOT A COMPUTER, THEREFORE IT IS A HOT WALLET

>> No.28289914

>>28289798
Your seed has be placed on your computer that is connected to the internet. I dont care what kind of encryption methods you use, your seed is no longer cold storage tier.

>> No.28290005

>>28289825
This is why we're mostly safe, not even people in crypto for years knows how this shit works...

>> No.28290091

>>28289681
https://www.ledger.com/academy/passphrase-an-advanced-security-feature

>>28289743
Every device connected to the internet is considered hot. Ever heard of vulnerabilities/malware?
>>28289798
>>28289914
As soon as you encrypt it on that machine, it's not considered cold anymore, as malware could grab it from memory.

>> No.28290195

>>28290091
*decrypt, obviously

>> No.28290202

>>28289825
>>28289914
Are you fucking braindead? You type out the fucking seed in a text then encrypt it using 256 AES you fucking dumbass.

Again, unless you are keylogged, there is no way for anyone to ever get that fucking seed. You fucking retards probably have sub 7 figured going full fucking retard autismo with this. Literally not a single case of this being exploited has ever happened.

It's orders of magnitude more likely that someone you know finds out you own crypto through social engineering and steals your big stupid metal engraved seed phrase.

>>28290091
Literally show me ONE FUCKING EXAMPLE EVER where malware grabs from memory something you wrote weeks ago in an encrypted text file. Holy fucking shit, just shut the fuck up with your autism dude.

>> No.28290271

>>28289681
It's an option during the setup.

>>28289682
While you're not wrong I actually think an advanced user can do this. Especially if you have a spare pc for doing this kind of work offline and then you are uploading an encrypted file to the cloud.

KeePass is another piece of software everyone should know, supports attaching files, is another layer of encryption and you can also make it open with a keyfile (keyfile should never be stored in the same place as the database file) I mean it's dope software whether you use it for crypto or not.

>> No.28290300

>>28290202
>Literally show me ONE FUCKING EXAMPLE EVER where malware grabs from memory
mfw I have a huge botnet of RATs specifically scanning the memory for crypto private keys

>> No.28290382

>>28290202
>>28290271
And what happens to your seed if your harddrive/SSD/nvme dies......? bad idea to keep it on the computer, just a fucking bad idea, even if you feel secure with your encryption.

Pen and paper = best

>> No.28290422

>>28290300
Give me one singular example. Some uber leet haxzor who determined the seed phrase that someone wrote in an encrypted text file weeks ago. I'll wait.

>>28290382
CAN YOU FUCKING READ? ONE ENCRYPTED IN THE CLOUD, ONE ON PAPER WITH WORDS ADDED/REMOVED (not a big fucking obvious steel plate)

>> No.28290875

Can I use a seed phrase from a ledger on a trezor?

>> No.28291048

>>28290875
Yeah. At least I think so. You can type your seed phrase into MEW (not recommended) and control your wallet.

It doesn't matter where you created it, they are all using the same standard

>> No.28291378

>>28290422
Dude no reason to be that angry.
You can't write in an encrypted text file. It will always be plain in memory before encryption and thus, exposed.
What you are doing is fine if it works for you (until is not). In computer security a secret decrypted on a live machine is not considered cold anymore, it's just what it is. There is no way to verify that your machine is not compromised the moment you type in or decrypt your seed. You just don't know for sure if someone has a memory dump of yours somewhere waiting to be examined.
Best practice is to use a cold wallet, which is incredibly easy and cheap with hardware wallets. Stop giving bad advice to obvious newcoiners.

>>28290875
Yes, it's all bip39 nowadays. Any wallet that accepts 24(+1) word seeds will work.

>> No.28292075

I have my keys stored in a KeePass container in 3 different encrypted drives, a copy of the container in MEGA and another copy written on paper. I've also memorized it and every once in a while I write it down again to keep it fresh in memory.
If I get keylogged, $5 wrench'd or black swan'd there's nothing I can do.

>> No.28292259

>>28291378
It has to be infected at that exact moment you type it which is what I said originally you fucking retard.

A hot wallet is secured on a website so is susceptible to attacks, and has to be continually typed in every time to access. How the fuck are you going to act like that is the same as typing your hardware wallet seed phrase into an encrypted text file a single time?

Again, the overwhelming vast majority of lost wallets are due to losing the phrase, forgetting the phrase, phishing, or social engineering. You cannot literally give even a single fucking example of someone having their seed phrase they typed weeks ago in an encrypted text file being hacked through the memory or whatever the fuck you're saying.

>>28292075
>KeePass
retard

>> No.28292502

>>28292075
hw wallet and a piece of paper is unironically way more secure

>> No.28292757

>>28286497
This.
The odds of someone finding it are miniscule, because you can simply keep them in a relatively hidden place. Even hiding them goes to far for my taste, I just keep them somewhere, where I will always find them. Imagine losing your memory in an accident or something.

>> No.28293440

>>28292259
I'm not even claiming any of your statements are wrong. All of what you say is correct.
A hot wallet on a website is actually the same, the server has to be compromised and the data is typically stored encrypted until needed.

I don't even know what we are arguing about. You explained how you handle your seed phrase, someone told you that this way is not considered cold storage (which you never claimed, but said it wouldn't make a difference) and I was just explaining that the difference is that your method is not verifiable safe, while a cold storage is. Yes, your method might have worked and if your crypto is still there, chances are you got away with encrypting your seed on a live machine. But there is no certainity and the probability of your seed being compromised is greater than zero. My seed however has never left my hardware wallet and the probability of it being compromised is zero. Logically argued, very easy to understand and does not need any anecdotal or empiric evidence of people getting hacked using your method.

>> No.28294187
File: 62 KB, 1000x800, 1F34C37B-D666-482C-9D5D-43F431F830B6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28294187

ITT: autism
Learning lots though, cheers lads

>> No.28294866

Guys, If i download Trust Wallet to an old phone of mine that never connects to the internet, is it a cold or a hot wallet?

>> No.28294985

>>28294866
cold

>> No.28295381

>>28294985
Thanks. Last question, if my phone breaks and never works anymore, did I lost it all or can I use the 24 seed-phrase as a backup on a new device?

>> No.28295680

>>28282797
My tattoo is in pig latin he'll never know

>> No.28295686

>>28295381
Sure you can.
24 words are the entire secret. Feel free to restore any wallet of your choice (supporting bip39) with it at any time.

>> No.28295878

>>28295381
the seed is for your keys so you can recover on any new device. I forgot my ledger pin and backed it up no problem

>> No.28296259

I just used my seed words to write lyrics and recorded a song with them. Every third word from all the sentences are the seed. Put that song in between the rest of my music library offline and online on the cloud.

And I've got a secret wallet on my ledger. In case of a hostage situation (the only thing I'm afraid of) I transfer the funds that are not on my secret wallet, which is a small portion of what I own. (but still enough to satisfy the thief, about $100k, for thieves its a lot of money.)

What do you think?

>> No.28296339

>>28295686
>>28295878
Thanks anons. I appreciate the spoonfeeding. Wagmi

>> No.28296408

>>28296259
I will never forget my passphrase. It's what I am in the core of my being. A stinkylink. ;-)

>> No.28296634

>>28296259
Brb, scraping all bandcamp lyrics to brute force your wallet.

>> No.28296782

>>28296634
Haha I translated the english words to my native language first before making the song. ;-)

>> No.28296882

Another idea I had is just circling the words of your seed with a green marker in a dictionary and numbering them. Put it in your bookshelf and tada.

You can also use a bible. Aint no thief gonna look in there.

>> No.28296953

But saving it on a song in the cloud is probably best. Fire proof too.

>> No.28297182 [DELETED] 
File: 52 KB, 640x442, 2C73994C-D9C3-4D54-832B-C84CCF2CCDBF.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28297182

After this bull run, BTC will crash to $10,000. Places like China, Russia, India, etc can still just decide to ban it overnight. Tesla “planning” to accept payments in the future is not widespread adoption or “going mainstream”. There’s still 5-10 years of government FUD that has to be worked out before people actually start seeing Bitcoin as real money and start using it as a currency.

>> No.28297285

>>28296953
Save it on the block chain using a simple cypher. then all you have to do is remember the cypher.

>> No.28297601

>>28296339
Ofc we will and wallet security is kind of an elemental step in doing so.

>>28296782
Shitposting aside, he is right, I'll just include all available dictionaries in my brute force attack then.
You want max entropy in your seed, try to avoid any correlating existing information. It should be completely random. Very easy to brute force every word written in history. Also bip39 only got 2048 different words, very easy to filter for your seed lyrics aka only give me files which include at least 24 of these words https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt

>>28297182
>people actually start seeing Bitcoin as real money and start using it as a currency.
I don't think this is a requirement for bitcoins success, it's decentralized, secure and scarce nature is already making it the best money imagineable.

>> No.28297918

>>28297601
It becomes regressive though as all had to do was give an alternate decoder to the cypher. For instance he said every third word. It could be 2nd word or 5th word or it could be a synonym of the bip word.

Point being that this quickly regresses, with a simple cypher to remember, to being no better than simply brute forcing bip39. There in entropy because you don't know that what he said was true (I hope not) this is /biz no one should be trusted.

>> No.28298209

Hide it in an empty can of deodorant that you keep on your desk, shelf anywhere like that that's in the open (not in the bathroom in case it gets wet). it's in plain sight and hidden at the same time, no one's going to look twice at a can of deodorant

>> No.28298686

>>28277317
Here is the solution.
>>Get the BIP39 list.
>>Order the list as you please, find number for word.
>>Create a cipher for those numbers.
*You can encrypt this next step or not*
>>Add as a comment to an ethereum transaction from an anon account.
>>Save the transaction hash
>>All you have to do is remember a simply cypher and word order technique (+key if you encrpyted)

>> No.28299066

>>28297918
Any pattern or any order can easily be brute forced. I will try any cypher that follows a matching pattern and of course my wordlist also includes any synonyms in any language as I obiously linked every thesaurus ever written as well.

>>28298686
can you give an example? I don't get it.

>> No.28299737

>>28298686
Comments are hosted by a centralized service called Disqus. It's not safe for doing that.

>> No.28299743
File: 395 KB, 640x640, 1606914804791.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28299743

>>28297601
cryptographers and mathematicians help me out. if i use the password phrase ('25 th seed') would it be possible that my 24 seedphrase + bip39 password phrase will generate a hd wallet, that collides with another 24-seedphrase wallet? im constantly pm walletsupports and ask people here about the seed collision propability. so. is it mathematical/cryptographical not possible, that my 24th+passwordphrase somehow by chance generates the same hd wallet master private key, as a wallet with just 24seedphrases? collusion possible? i need to rest peaceful but cant believe that people keep millions of worth just on one keypar... im already splitting small amounts over many different hd wallets

>> No.28300043

Imagine not having a dictionary with your 24 words highlighted and numbered stored in a book shelf and in a bank safety deposit box, as well as buried in a time capsule in your back yard

>> No.28300790

>>28299743
Not a cryptographer but from my basic understanding of hash algorithms, this should be possible. A 24 word phrase just uses the passphrase '', the algo is the same. For every 24 word seed in theory there should be an endless number of colliding 25th words. Nothing to worry about, however, it is _very_ unlikely the other way around, right?

>>28300043
>being your own bank
>giving your keys in custody of a literal bank
satoshi_crying.gif

>> No.28301565

>>28300790
i always understood the hashing function as inherently collision resistent. so that every different input will never crash with eachother. the thing with UNLIKELY but not impossible always keeps me awake. using the bip39 additional password phrase gave me little more comfort because now for a collusion somebody would have to accidently generate the same 24 seedphrases AND have the same password phrase. which i then consider comfortable unlikely to happen. but im not sure, because i cannot completely grasp the technical, mathematical aspect

>> No.28301785

If you wanna be a real autismo, convert your seed phrase into hex and then convert the hex in 6 character blocks to RGB and then make a bitmap image with one pixel per color and store copies wherever you want

>> No.28301958

>>28277317
I use 24 plus my own word that I don't write down. If someone steals the 24 words (which I have memorized) , I'll have a lot of time to move my funds before they brute force the last word, which is actually more like a paragraph

>> No.28302432

>>28301958
Could they brute force the word "stinkylink"?

Also guys, in all honesty, I really appreciate the advice but I think the biggest danger is just being held hostage by a robber. That's why I keep $100k not on my secret wallet to give it to the robber so he won't break my kneecaps or something like that. Or stab me.

>> No.28304093

>>28301565
A 24 word bip39 has the same security as a bitcoin private key
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIvgjCvGlwo

>> No.28304960

>>28301565
The idea of a hashing function is to lose information in the process, so that you won't be able to get back from the hash to the key.
So there will mathematically always be unlimited keys generating the same hash, it will just be very very hard to find them, which provides security.
Here, enjoy some different pdfs with the same hash http://shattered.io/

>> No.28305211

>>28304960
btw. don't panic this is just SHA-1

>> No.28305874
File: 181 KB, 960x960, 5g3ayy7pwxl51.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28305874

>>28302432
Less than an hour according to this chart.
Also stinkylink will be right in front of the wordlist as it is commonly used here. Dictionary attack may be even more efficient :^)

>> No.28306923

>>28296882
I highly doubt some of the wordlist are in the bible. Unless your bible has airport, giggle, or tomato in it lol

>> No.28307144

>>28295680
>he'll
Sounds gay bro

>> No.28307275
File: 42 KB, 600x450, EtwO8yhVgAE2Jr0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28307275

put it in an old book or something. no one will find it. no ones cares. or do like the winklevoss twins and split it in half. put each half in a separate safety deposit box.

>> No.28307532

>>28307275
based pic

>> No.28307669

People that got kidnapped for keys did stuff like go to shitcoin conferences in thailand

>> No.28307805

>>28307275
Look at that stupid fuck Rand Paul

>> No.28308900
File: 167 KB, 600x600, 600px-Vigenère_square_shading.svg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
28308900

>>28277317
Encrypt the paper copy of your seed phrase with a Vigenere cipher. You should use a long piece of text, like a poem, as your key, rather than a password. This is still vulnerable to frequency analysis, since the key won't have a perfectly random distribution of characters. But this is pretty much the best by-hand encryption method with a recoverable key.

>> No.28309332

>>28282586
This guy gets it

>> No.28310324

>>28287918
Wow is this bait? The password only encrypts the file/hot wallet access. Example: if I have your seed I can just use MEW to open your wallet up with no password.

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