/biz/ - Business & Finance

[satoshi No.51616363]

I'm not a BTC maxi (love monero) but I can't help to believe that BTC is the chosen one
The more you look at it the more you are being convinced

[Anonymous No.51616508]

>>51616363
Monero has an answer to "what comes after the last halving" and bitcoin doesn't.

[satoshi No.51616676]

>>51616508
yes i agree but past this argument BTC is better
You can add the fuginibility argument (which is true) but maybe its not needed if it has to happen to be "the world base currency"
Monero can be cash but finally i see it as cash, like satoshi said "p2p cash" and BTC more as gold in the end game

[Anonymous No.51616932]

>>51616676
>paradigm shift
So it's a scam.

[Anonymous No.51616958]

>>51616363
I will never touch this mass surveillance tool.

[Anonymous No.51616985]

>>51616676
Bitcoin is closer to being digital real estate. Gold is fungible, Bitcoin isn't. Monero is ironically the best digital gopd in existence.

[satoshi No.51617142]

>>51616958
mass surveillance i agree too but it also means tracibility. like you know what is happening - you can see on the blockchain . you know what people do. """bad people""" can't hide and do things behind our backs. it's almost the opposite of our system. i mean cash (monero - M1) is fungible but that's not what the bad or heavy people use to manage billions (shady banking, grey and black finance instad of paper money). bitcoin +could lead to a world where they can't hide

>>51616985
gold is fungible and useful because EVERYONE know it has value. In case things go south, ANY random person WOULD prefer to receive BTC rather than """a shitcoin like XMR"""

[Anonymous No.51617174]

>>51616508
The difficulty is variable, if miners lack incentives they will just drop out and be replaced by more efficient ones. On top of that, if the miners feel selling at loss is a bad idea they can hodl and that alone would prop the price of Bitcoin higher.

[Anonymous No.51617295]

Bitcoin's biggest strength and Monero's biggest weakness is their mining process.

Bitcoin is being integrated into the energy grid.
There are so-so ideas in Texas where miners purchase electricity futures and sell it back to the grid for more or mine.
This make Bitcoin mining a put option on electricity.
This will eventually move towards nuclear using ASICs to offset grid demand instead of playing with the reactor and using inefficient peaker plants.

Monero's mining process is really stupid.
It's traditionally mined with botnets (torrent browsers, media players, etc.), and if it ever gains popularity FPGA/ASIC miners will have more incentive to crack the algorithms.
This puts Monero in a catch 22 forever.

Mining is best kept at the same algo until chips get to moore's law and it becomes the basic for modern society. This means cheap electricity and efficient semiconductors.

[Anonymous No.51617315]

>>51617295
Could you do an analysis on Ethereum and other cryptocurrencies? I really appreciate your content.

[Anonymous No.51617328]

>>51616676
cash will actually be apps on your smartphone. built on top of a proper currency. it will probably be controlled by bank and monero will help.

[Anonymous No.51617362]

>>51617315
ETH is a communist shitcoin created by kikes, poos, and pedophiles.
The majority of staking ETH are locked in exchanges and the code for withdrawal hasn't even been developed yet.

For example for ETH to be taken out by the government all they would need to do is contact exchanges and developers and get a deal written into the next update.
This means that ETH is captured and why the WEF is praising it and why Vitalik is praising globalist ideas.

[Anonymous No.51617409]

>>51617142
>ANY random person WOULD prefer to receive BTC rather than """a shitcoin like XMR"""
any random bumfuck farmer would've also preferred having a strong horse over an experimental combustion engine too. Revolutionary ideas come from the tails not the center.

[satoshi No.51617470]

>>51617409
agreed but Monero isn't as revolutionary, it's """basically BTC""" with privacy. It's not such a great improvement or even "oportunity" if you plan to live in a world where cryptocurrencies take a medium part of our lives.
Monero is unknown. your "random bumfuck farmer" world prefer BITCOIN amongst XMR. I know and you know that you would have to convince that guy +at least twice more for him to accept any "monero" instead of "BITCOIN", no?

[Anonymous No.51617496]

>>51617295
>and if it ever gains popularity FPGA/ASIC miners will have more incentive to crack the algorithms.
You can't "crack" RandomX because it has specific physical parameters needed to successfully run. It's designed around physical hardware requirements as opposed to just complicated spaghetti code. You could build a Monero "ASIC" right now and you would just recreate an AMD Threadripper.

Also, the circular dependency of Bitcoin's long-term security being based on transaction fees, and transaction fees in part being based on security, creates the potential for a positive feedback loop where if they fees crash or the price crashes sufficiently and there's no guaranteed block reward, Bitcoin could realistically see a catastrophic collapse in it's hashrate as they built a maximum-fragility system which is hypersensitive to both price action and maintaining full blocks at all times. Monero having tail emissions and being mined by botnets in large parts mitigates the circular dependencies of other coins because you're guaranteed payment + botnet miners aren't price sensitive so hashrate doesn't risk having positive feedback loop crashes if the price goes down.

[Anonymous No.51617586]

The problem remains the same.
The asset is not correlated to anything in particular and thus has no stable value.

Even at extremely inflated prices it will still get bought and sold by bots mostly so the price will be to volatile to use it for anything other than speculation.

Example :

You want to buy a pair of pants and pay with Bitcoin/Monero/whatever the fuck.
Merely by waiting a bit the price of the pants you were about to pay for will increase or decrease by a large amount.

The reason people use money at all, as a concept, is that it's fairly stable. From the point you earn it to the point you use it for something it holds value at the expected rate. Sure, runaway inflation fucks with that, but that's not the norm.

In the case of cryptocurrencies the "runaway inflation" or "deflation" or just market volatility completely fucks with the entire process.

Why buy a pair of pants now with crypto when tomorrow you can buy it for "half the cost", etc... the end result is you won't be buying but holding or speculating with the tokens, rather than using them for a purchase.

Either way bots fucked this process entirely because now they get triggered by keywords in news articles and good luck eradicating that kind of market manipulation.

[Anonymous No.51617632]

monero isn't "bitcoin with privacy". it's bicoin with privacy, dynamic blocksize, and tail emission. it fixes bitcoins main flaws which are fungibility and scalability.
i don't own any bitcoin because I'm only willing to own a coin I would want to actually use in commerce. bitcoin is not usable: everyone can see how much is in my bank account, my coins can be censored and blacklisted, the fees are high, the coin doesn't scale, and so on
xmr is the only crypto I hold because I actually use it as a currency

[Anonymous No.51617967]

because you only get to do bitcoin once, for all of humanity. the only way you can re-create bitcoin again is with a total and complete collapse of all digital assets.

[Anonymous No.51617985]

>>51617295
monero is fundamentally broken for many reasons, asic resistance is just one but it's the one creates a glass ceiling over monero's security.

with no reason to invest in mining monero you're only profitable if you have stolen hardware and stolen energy. everyone else is mining for the good of the network, which means securing monero is effectively unincentivized.

[Anonymous No.51618011]

>>51617632
you realize that "dynamic blocksize" basically makes monero permanently vulnerable to output tainting at effectively zero cost for any government, exchange, or institution providing services to either of them?

monero's privacy model requires high fees.
what does a dynamic blocksize do?

[satoshi No.51618041]

>>51617632
ok you would be holding 100$ bills (monero) but beyond that you need something that sounds more like hard money

>>51617496
i also agree about transactions fees it is a real problem. it will push people ro find the most efficient ways to transform anything to electricity. also satoshi mentionned bitcoin being used in data centers and honestly it would be fine as everyone would be able to verify any transaction

>>51618011
problem is as it is obfuscated you can't audit it easily and it could ba feel like you are fooled instead of BTC that everyone knows

[Anonymous No.51618100]

fuck both BTC and XMR
both have no real purpose.
ETH will win out.
they actually have multipurpose functions and actual dApps
look at companies like Facebook, Instagram, Stripe and many more that are using L2s like Polygon to build on Ethereum

do you see anything similar happening with Monero or Bitcoin?
Fuck off

[Anonymous No.51618103]

>>51618011
>monero's privacy model requires high fees.
Fees play zero part in Monero's privacy model.

[Anonymous No.51618118]

>>51618041
auditing isn't much of a problem for monero, because it's not supposed to be a store of wealth or a place to keep it.

the problem is monero's privacy is and has always been unincentivized, which is the equivalent of bitcoin getting rid of all transaction fees, and just asking miners nicely to include transactions as they see fit.

[Anonymous No.51618167]

>>51618103
monero doesn't disincentivize you from trivially breaking its privacy.
go add up how many xmr miners earned in fees over the last couple of years.

[Anonymous No.51618172]

>>51618100
ethereum is not the same thing as eth and now as proven to the world that it isn't capable of capturing value from ethereum itself.

[Anonymous No.51618210]

>>51617470
>agreed but Monero isn't as revolutionary, it's """basically BTC""" with privacy
yes? It's what Bitcoin should have been, how is this a slight against monero?
>It's not such a great improvement or even "oportunity" if you plan to live in a world where cryptocurrencies take a medium part of our lives.
it is for anyone who cares about privacy.
>Monero is unknown. your "random bumfuck farmer" world prefer BITCOIN amongst XMR. I know and you know that you would have to convince that guy +at least twice more for him to accept any "monero" instead of "BITCOIN", no?
And bitcoin was unknown at one point too. Until it got superseded by monero on the dark web. No one uses bitcoin anymore except for price speculation. Monero actually has REAL use cases and is being used to buy REAL products AS WE SPEAK.

[Anonymous No.51618261]

>>51618167
Monero's privacy has no relation to transaction fees.

[Anonymous No.51618305]

>>51618100
>multipurpose functions and actual dApps
the problem with creating a monstrosity is you lose the original focus of being hard money. there are two countries that adopted bitcoin as legal tender. do you think by any stretch of imagination, a country will adopt a monstrosity that's full of hacks, developed by Vitalik and his gang, and control by validators that report to the USA?
enjoy holding your jpegs and regurgitating the smart contract non-narrative

[Anonymous No.51618425]

>>51618261
maybe understand how its privacy model works before replying, then.

[satoshi No.51618462]

>>51618118
>auditing isn't much of a problem for monero, because it's not supposed to be a store of wealth or a place to keep it.
agreed and i aknowledge it will and it is not meant to surpass M1 at best, and even 5% of M1 would be nice. it will be p2p cash at most.
satoshi named it this way and it will only represent a small portion of cash money (M1) because real rich people don't deal with XMR, they don't even care

>>51618210
>it is for anyone who cares about privacy
yeah but no one cares anon. wake up. no one cares and you know it.
BTC has value because it means energy has been used and all the world can wintness it. BTC is the blockchain with the most PoW.
It's basically USD of crypto and I prefer to have USD than some random shitcoin

>And bitcoin was unknown at one point too. Until it got superseded by monero on the dark web. No one uses bitcoin anymore except for price speculation. Monero actually has REAL use cases and is being used to buy REAL products AS WE SPEAK.

Agreed, but as a world currency BTC is better than Monero

[Anonymous No.51619081]

>>51618462
i dont think monero will be anything more than what it is today, just one piece in the privacy puzzle.
it was a nice try, but it's architecture was flawed from the start, and there's not enough talent or incentive to re-architect it from scratch.

[Anonymous No.51620364]

>>51619081

[Anonymous No.51620712]

>>51620364
the irony being those that blindly shill monero and pretend its failures don't exist are doing the CIA's job for them.
herding the cattle right into a honeypot.

[Anonymous No.51620777]

>>51620712
Did Fluffypony fuck your girlfriend or something?

[Anonymous No.51620786]

>>51620777
nah, i like him. but even he's slowly distanced himself from being pigeonholed as the "monero guy".

just keep an open mind and realize the most critical of monero likely need privacy the most.

[Anonymous No.51620874]

>muh fungibility
>muh scalability
you sound like a bsv baggie

[Anonymous No.51621369]

>>51616676
>World base currency
You seriously believe that, the whole point of state and governments is to gain power through manipulating money. BTC does not make that possible at all, gold fell from grace because it was restricting them a lot, until there is government, there is no BTC world currency

[Anonymous No.51621425]

>>51616508
the last bitcoin halving is 2100 why even care about it most likely you wont even be affected by it

fucking monero schizos i swear

[Anonymous No.51621516]

>>51616363
Satoshi wanted 42 million coins for the "42" meme but fucked up this formula.

[Anonymous No.51622155]

>>51617142
Traceability can be a problem when the wallet owner being traced has no fucking idea about it. Many targeted attacks begins by careful monitoring of wallet activity way before the exploit is made.

[Anonymous No.51622175]

>>51617315
Most especially cryptocurrencies with a privacy focus. No doubt, there are a lot of questions about them lately

[Anonymous No.51622538]

>>51621516
For real?

[Anonymous No.51622561]

>>51619081
How about if privacy becomes a legal requirement or something? You never can tell how far the privacy puzzle can go

[Anonymous No.51622796]

>>51616363
Yes, BTC is just what it needs to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Anonymous No.51622940]

>>51622538
Not confirmed. Just something Andreas Antonopoulos suspected.

Then again the number of bitcoin doesn't matter. The fix schedule and fix supply is what it is all about.

[Anonymous No.51623300]

>>51616363
Bitcoin is the chosen one. Not BTC.

[Anonymous No.51623685]

>>51616508
And what answer is that?
QANX has the answer to "what happens when the quantum computers come" but Monero doesn't.
>Quantum computers will definitely come long before the last halving.

[Anonymous No.51624786]

>>51621425
Just few more halvings and btc rewards will be already meaningless, unless it price moons to unrealistic highs.

[Anonymous No.51625986]

>>51624786
>it's unreasonable to think that bits on a computer would ever be worth $1 let alone $1000!