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955876 No.955876 [Reply] [Original]

If capitalism is so great why do you still need to work 40h a week just to feed, clothe, and house yourself?

>> No.955877

>>955876
>capitalism is so great
This is not a fact.

>> No.955878

>If life is so great, why does every single organism have to get up and look for another organism to consume

>> No.955882

>>955876
Because you only have to work 40h a week.

You assume it used to be less. You've been lied to.

>> No.955883

>>955882
Nobody did any work at all in the soviet union and they all made do

>> No.955884

>>955876
If communism is so great why do people in communist countries work 16 hours a day and still starve to death?

>> No.955886
File: 132 KB, 650x433, f9ae8-ian-mckellen-cigarette.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
955886

>>955876
Because people are stuck in time for money traps and don't think there is any other way.

People are too victim-minded and too busy chanting "woe is me, the little bitch" to break out of the cycle.

>> No.955887
File: 68 KB, 327x322, fucking poorfags.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
955887

>>955876
>If capitalism is so great why do you still need to work 40h a week just to feed, clothe, and house yourself?

Capitalism is great because I work 40+ hours a week so I can make even more money than I have now and thereby making some pleb even poorer.

To be honest, my assets are pretty much past the critical limit point where you can't spend as much as you make passively, but I like spending.

>> No.955895

>>955882
Yeah where are poeple getting this shit. I see this shit in jew book from time to time.

" before capitalism hunter gatherers and substance farmers spent on average just 3 hours a day securing thier own survival, leaving most of the day for leisure activities"


Seriously. What the fuck.

>> No.955896

>>955876
John Keynes once said (before his death in 1946) that at the millennium technology would allow us to work 10 hour work weeks and be at the same level of subsistence as when he said it. he's right, but the rich have taken the benefits of technological advancement.

>> No.955910

>>955895
Also, at the height of the Roman Empire, free men worked only six hours per day (roughly 6 to 12 AM). Around noon, leisure time started.

That's only for men. Women didn't work at all. And 200 days per year were public holidays.

>> No.955921

>hunters and gatheres

today there are 7 bi people on earth
were da fuck you cant find shit for everyone without causing massive extinctions dumbfuck

>> No.955931

>>955910
>free men

Was there another kind of man? Perhaps one with different work habits that might help explain this laid back existance?

>> No.955945

>>955910
"Free men" have to labor even less now, we just call them rich people nowadays. Back then the poor people were slaves and the middle class were servants.

Everyone is doing better.

>> No.955946

>>955945
>Everyone is doing better.
Due to technological advances.

>> No.955958

>>955946
In capitalist nations. You'll notice almost everyone else is doing rather shittily minus the few who benefit from the capitalist nations thanks to massive precious resources (Saudi Arabia from oil, Israel from jews).

>> No.955980

How many hours do you think subsistence farmers need to work?

>> No.955982

>>955946
hmmm i wonder which economic system developed those advances? u fuckin faggot

>> No.955992

>>955958
In non-capitalist nations you'll notice that everyone is doing rather shittily in general, except the people who are dying. What an improvement!

>> No.955996

>>955876
If life is so great, why do we still experience sadness?

Checkmate non-dead.

>> No.956005

>>955992
This was weird reading, because I agree with you. By "almost everyone else" I meant non-capitalist nations.

>> No.956024

>>955882
they work the same amount but get paid less

>> No.956033

>>955931
Ancient slaves (those who worked really hard) are the equivalent of today's Chinese sweatshop workers. You don't see them, yet they explain your laid back existence.

And free men still worked.

>>955945
Wrong. Some slaves were extremely rich (de facto), educated, and had it really good. I'm talking about domestic slaves, the emperor's slaves, beautiful sex slaves, etc.

The common "free man" was your average citizen from a first world country. Some were low-class, some middle-class, some high-class.

>> No.956120

>>955876

Because the key holders of wealth maintain income supplies at just low enough levels to keep the working class busy 40 hours a week.

>> No.956127

>>955882

It was less. Open any history book.

>>955910
Currently reading the rise and fall of rome. All Roman citizens were entitled to a small piece of land as part of being in the roman empire, all men were at least given a small piece of it.

>> No.956163

>>955876
If Socialism is so great why did people wait in breadlines and get killed by their own government?

>> No.956189

>>956033
>ancient
...
>first world country
You sound like you really know your stuff

>> No.956190

>>956163
Fucking hilarious dude

>> No.956201
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956201

Our general efficiency has increased by at least two fold since the 1950s, so why do we still work the same amount of hours?

>> No.956202

>>955876
Because we like phones, and internet, and heat, and a/c, and more than subsistence food, and transportation, and dragon dildos. Live with the money you make as someone 100 years ago and you could easily work 15 hours a week. Have fun being bored, cold, and miserable, faggot.

Plus if you're working 40 hours to merely subsist, you fucking suck, but still have it way easier than historical subsisters

>> No.956203

>>956033
Actually Chinese sweatshop workers are the equivalent of American sweatshop workers only 100 years ago. I suggest you read up on Fordism and read books such as The Jungle, just ignore the last chapter about socialism.

>> No.956205

>>955876
My necessities only require 10 hours of pay, the other 20 hours I work is for savings and partying

>> No.956206

>>956201
Think of it this way. In the 90s, when an employee got a computer from his employer, his productivity skyrocketed. Does that employee deserve a raise because their employer gave him a tool to make his job easier and faster?

>> No.956212

>>956206
But what's the point of extra productivity if it ends up not even being used, such as anyone with an office job working 9-5 and actually working 3 hours while shitposting the other 6?

>> No.956237

>>956206
Yes, because he's the one operating it and not CEO who paid for it. A computer without an operator would be useless.

>> No.956490
File: 120 KB, 475x356, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
956490

>>955876
What do socialists think will happen if we weren't capitalist? Look at Venezuela nigga.
>muh Scandinavian socialism
Every Scandinavian country is higher rated in free market index than the supposedly incredibly capitalist Israel. Denmark and Estonia are ranked higher than the US!

>> No.956497

The work week requirements will be reduced soon. Hopefully to 20 hours per week and a doubling of minimum wage will allow for real lofe full employment. Our current condition of super efficiency and a high loss of jobs point to this as the only real option. Of course we could just pay welfare or continue to devalue the middle class so we can compete in a third world global market but then who would buy the shit we make?

>> No.956502

>>955883
That's why the soviet union collapsed - it was extremely inefficient. Companies were making huge losses because nobody had an incentive to work or try hard since they just got bailed out by the government.

>> No.956504

>>956497
>soon
how soon anon?

I'm living with my parents, age 25, done with all school stuff, just 'need a job' so i can rent my own home but the thought of even getting out of bed horrifies me.

technocracy, where art thy?

>> No.956509

>>955876
Laissez-faire capitalism has no inbuilt tendency to diminish the average hours of work. Employers will always want to get the maximum they can out of their employees to compete with their competition who are trying to do the same thing. Employers have more leverage than employees in most fields so in reality people just can't walk away if they don't like their work hours. Average hours can only be diminished through politics as history has shown.

Read this:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1125543

>> No.956513

>>956504
>I'm living with my parents, age 25, done with all school stuff, just 'need a job' so i can rent my own home but the thought of even getting out of bed horrifies me.

Wtf?

What kind of faggot are you that still lives with mommie and daddy at 25?

>> No.956514

>>956513
How am i supposed to rent a house without an income?

>> No.956517

>>956514
Get a job?

What did you major in where you can't find a job?

What was your GPA? Did you do any internships? Did you network with peers?

>> No.956527

>>956517
Alright i'll bite, you're going to hate me.

I live in the netherlands and studied embedded systems and automation. It's HBO (higher job studies). So it's not the highest study. that would be university. (WO)

The thing is, whilst doing this school i learned a little bit about a lot of IT related stuff but i forget as soon as i aced the tests. i had great grades (almost finished cum laude) and didn't fail any of them.

I did not network with anyone at all, i don't use social media. i have no friends.

aside from school, my internships for the study always went "meh".

So now i have 0 job experience, 0 references, pretty much 0 relevant knowledge to apply for a job and worst of all: 0 ambition to even get out of bed.

this picture, >>950701, hits home hard for me.

what do?

>> No.956534

Capitalism to socialism to communism to capitalism

>> No.956536

>>956527
Hang yourself tbqh.

You got yourself to this point. Should've networked and studied outside of school.

Also i posted that image :>)

>> No.956540

>>956536
Yup, i kind of knew you we're going to suggest this. I've been thinking of suicide off and on for pretty much my whole life. It's just such a hassle to go and die.

Your posting ID is different from the one in the picture. Are ID's threadbased or did you just lie to me?

>> No.956556
File: 20 KB, 240x320, good book.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
956556

>>956540
>Your posting ID is different from the one in the picture. Are ID's threadbased or did you just lie to me?

They are threadbased my new friend :^)

>Yup, i kind of knew you we're going to suggest this. I've been thinking of suicide off and on for pretty much my whole life. It's just such a hassle to go and die.

Suicide was just a meme, but really you should just work harder.

Start reading books that will help you TODAY, fix up your resume, practice your skills/interview skills TODAY, and start applying to jobs for at least 3 hours a day everyday, until you get something.

Make it your fulltime job to find a fulltime job. And you will get it.

>> No.956558

>>956556
Thanks for the inspiration anon. I'm only 4 months in and im already regretting turning into a total NEET (well, minus one 'E' for education).

Besides "Dicey Affairs XXXI: Kekolding a Total Sissy", any good reading material you could recommend me?

I believe you in the threadbased thingy and i'd like to thank you for posting that picture.

Do you think the "I studied HBO so i have the capacity" buzzword/meme might score me a job? I don't need a huge salary i just need enough to rent a home and still be able to save a little per month.

Thanks again

>> No.956583

Go find a socialist country. Youll just get raped other by capitalitic nations.

>> No.956604

>>956205
I agree with you. I work minimum wage 25 hours a week and through humble living have managed to improve my net asset balance by over 2000 dollars since January.

Working 40 this day in age are for baby daddies and wage keks.

>> No.956615

>>956558
Just get your knowledge to a good level(whatever you deem that) and apply to all jobs you think you can do senpai

>> No.956617

>>955876
Oh boy here we go again.
You choose to work 40 hours a week. To be honest anything outside from rent and the basic grocery budget is just throwing money away. You can get by fine with just a 20 hour work week if your just focused on surviving. Alternatively you can always just open a business.

>> No.956618

>>956583
Few Americans realize how hard it is to get citizenship in these countries. Their welfare setup is to help the natives, not outsiders.

This gets blown to the wind when they get to be babysitters for refugees, but they don't give a damn about other first worlders, especially direct neighbors and foreign white people.

Source: France. The only people we like are poor people we can pretend to like from a distance.

>> No.956620

>>956618
>Source: France. The only people we like are poor people we can pretend to like from a distance.

I visited Paris once. I thought the pilot a mistake and took us to Somalia instead.

>> No.956628

>>956127
>Is told she's been lied to
>Refutes with "no you're wrong, I know because somebody told me"

>> No.956635

You're confusing free markets with capitalism. Capitalism, as its name implies, is entirely dominated by a relatively small number of people who possess capital. The wealthy investor gets to do whatever the hell it wants, even if their actions are harmful to the health of the market, and they're also the only ones capable of being productive in the economy.

In Nordic countries, the focus is on healthy markets, not necessarily capital accumulation. Capital is more evenly distributed, so more people can start businesses and innovate.

>> No.956702

The very essence of capitalism is converting capital into income.

Labor is capital.

Therefore converting labor (40h a week) into income (to feed, clothe, and house yourself) is the very essence of capitalism.

Your question implies that labor and income should be separate in a capitalistic system. That literally makes no sense at all. Stupid question.

>> No.956822

>>956490
whole Scandinavian countries have the populations of some of medium size cities in the west.
while a country of similar size GB has 6-12x the people.

They don't even register on the scale as an economic force.

>> No.956825

>>956822
li ching r u chinese

>> No.956842
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956842

>>956702
>Labor is capital.
Labour isn't capital, capital is dead labour.
Defining labour as capital means you can't disingenuous between wages and profit and their sources. Saying profit arises out of profit is a tautology. You're just trying to make a lot of theoretical issues meaningless and hope they disappear.

>> No.956921

>>955921
and how many gays?

>> No.956925

>>956513
about half of all millenials live with their parents

they simply can't make enough money to get their own properties

>> No.956943

>>956635
truth, but investors are not the problem necessarily. the problem is speculators and the speculation industry (brokers) and that those who own capital can dominate the congress.

im also not convinced that greater populations don't trend naturally towards this system, due to the massive stupidity and apathy of recently post-agrarian populations and poor education infrastructure.

the mass stupidity of so many former american peasants (lovingly called "subsistence farmers" in our history books) allows for domination on a level only seen in other countries which had great trouble moving these agrarians into middle class jobs and keeping them there (china, russia).

but these masses also allow a country to become richer than any other country. they'll slave away for somebody else, allow chains and franchises to kill their ability to start a small business, vote in a guy who is fucking them in the ass, actively attack people who want to change things for the better, hold "edumacation" in disdain, and of course praise jesus for it at the end of the day.

we need better education in the US. im for the nuclear option of just killing the department of education and letting the private sector do it. it's either unions or charter schools which control the education system. at least charter schools have an interest in actually educating the kids. teacher's union at this point is about power.

>> No.956959

>>955876
I have never worked in my life and never will, I choose business that does not need my assistance more than seldom time. My real estate portfolio ~ 5 hours a week, NYMEX, CBOT and GLOBEX futures strategy ~ 5 hours a week, stocks ~ 1 hour a week. That's about it... I was given most of my initial capital from my parents though.

>> No.956967

>>955896
>10h work days for the quality of life back then
>back then
>no General Tao chicken at corner store
>no cheap commercial transport
>no internet
>no smartphones
>no disease cures
>no fashion
>live to age 70 max

I dont even know what else they didnt have back then but its huge

>> No.957023

>>956842
>Labour isn't capital, capital is dead labour.
>Defining labour as capital means you can't disingenuous between wages and profit and their sources. Saying profit arises out of profit is a tautology. You're just trying to make a lot of theoretical issues meaningless and hope they disappear
Sorry, but you get a D+. Labor is capital because it is an engine of revenue. Note: revenue, not profit. Or to use more precise language: wages, not profit.

You're the one trying to improperly equate labor with profit or wages with profit. I never said anything about profit, because capitalism isn't based on costs. It's implicit in the successful application of the capitalist model, but not a core component.

I suggest you seek a refund on your Econ 101 class.

>> No.957026

>>956628

No you're wrong because it is written in a boatload of history books concerning:

- Native American Civilization
- Roman Civilization
- Middle Eastern Empires
- European History

etc etc etc

>> No.957063

>>955878
Plants don't do that niqqa

>> No.957087
File: 44 KB, 550x404, tip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
957087

>>957023
>I never said anything about profit, because capitalism isn't based on costs. It's implicit in the successful application of the capitalist model, but not a core component.

Neoclassical economics is unable to actually model capital so it has to always eschews any actual analysis of capital. The theoretical importance of capital for understanding capitalism means that this has turned neoclassical "theory" into a highly inadequate tool for doing what economic theory is supposed to do: actually furthering our understanding of capitalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_capital_controversy

>> No.957095

>>957023
>Labor is capital because it is an engine of revenue
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capital.asp
the worst thing is that you think you are smart and know econ

>> No.957096

>>957023
>I suggest you seek a refund on your Econ 101 class.
You should read a wikipedia page or something because if you have been taking econ classes they were clearly a waste of your money and time (I would speculate whether you've taken one at all but the shit they teach in universities these days boggles the mind). Labor is not capital. Capital is consumable goods: the fruits of labor and what people WANT. Labor (among other things) is used to create capital, but it is not itself a consumable good in any normal sense of the term.

>> No.957119

>>956202
this
/thread

>> No.957159

>>957087
>Can't maintain a discussion about capitalism's core concepts.
>Instead cites highly abstracted economic debate that most economists eschew due to the limited application of theory and the impossibility of resolving the manufactured theoretical conflict.
Wear that fedora proudly, anon. You'll fit it nicely with the other baristas.

>> No.957162

>>955910
they had innocent African slaves that worked hard and white men took all the credit for

>> No.957164

>>957095
>>957096
>Citing Investopedia and Wikipedia.
>Sources don't even support their argument.
>Thinks capital is "consumable goods."
>Uses my jokes.
Jesus, you Millennials are pathetic. No wonder the business world and the media hate you.

>> No.957166

>>955876
You don't, you can get neet bux with food stamps and welfare.

>> No.957179
File: 106 KB, 576x720, colon-crucified-wall-of-text.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
957179

>>957164
>Is wrong
>Gets called out of it
>"M-M-Millennials!"

>> No.957196

>>955980
Farming from my patio with greens takes... Really no time at all but when I had a full 100 sq ft garden full of melons, tomatoes and other shit I'd spend 20 hours a week out there in addition to real work and didn't save a ton of money. I got really good at growing things you can't live off of though. If my entire diet was Bell peppers carrots and komatsuna I'd be the richest man in the city.

>> No.957255

People have this idea that the economy is a made thing that can easily be tweaked and set, like the zoning code or city hall's garden setup. Then they come up with stupid retarded shit like "i have to right to free education/health/housing/welfare" and wonder why it doesn't work out.

>> No.957264

>>955876
I don't work 40/h a week because of capitalism

>self-employed
>net $xx,xxx monthly passive

>> No.957277

>>955877
Says someone without a better solution.

>> No.957482

>>956513
Are you living in the fifties or something?

>> No.957484

Because you are addicted to consuming. You buy expensive coffees, dinners, cars and houses, get wives who suck at finance, get demanding children and at the end of the month you wonder why you are left with nothing like many others and only a small fraction has a significant amount of money.

Protip: it's because you just spent your entire month giving your money to that small fraction of people one way or another

>> No.957532

>>957482
Not him, but back then you left home at 18. Today, it's pretty embarrassing if you're still with them at 25. I left home at 23.

>> No.957541

>>957532
>I stopped Y at age X, it's really pretty embarrassing if you're still Y at age X+1

Yeah, usually how it goes.

>> No.957652

>>956212

Because if people need misery to function. Its the matrix problem.

>> No.957655

>>957482
>>957541
You can pretty reasonably live off minimum wage on your own with room mates.

If you get a job of $20/hr+(which is a low internship wage for most majors) you can even more easily live on your own.

>> No.957810

>>957063
Yeah biznatch it's 2015,
become a plant.

>> No.957825

Because the lowest common denominator is lazy, and there's a shortage of talent.

>> No.957826

>>955910

Yeah but their standard of living was way lower. Today we have access to exponentially higher standards of living compared to how many hours we work. In any 1st world society the resources and infrastructure that are openly accessible would make the Romans shit their pants. 40 hours a week is a deal for what we get.

>> No.957830

>>955996
>letting sadness define your life

le chekm8 braj

>> No.957834

You don't need 40 hours for those things. If all you looking for is shelter, food and clothing you could easily obtain that on 15-20 hours of work, possibly less.

We work 40 for the other things, like a car, savings, eating out, entertainment and so on. Capitalism is the single greatest concept the human mind has ever developed.

>> No.957836

>>956120
oh man, thanks for opening my eyes to the conspiracy I totally know the truth now and will live my life differently.
>>956127
Read up on "The last roman citizen". It paints a similar but different picture of the roman political arena and the economy than rise and fall.

I love ancient rome, but wouldn't wish its economic and fiscal policies on anyone. The proles lived quiet lives of unemployed desperation, with the only 'out' as the military.

>> No.957838

>>956527
>Get a job doing some basic shit and start earning that sweet dosh.
>It will be shit moni but shit $ > no $
>Congratz u now have exp
>spend exp points to get better jobs
>more dosh
>?????
>profit

>> No.957883

>>956127
If you've been reading about Rome, you should know how fucking pointless the comparison is

You don't seriously think Roman Citizenship is like American Citizenship, do you?

If we want to live as comfortably in the US as the romans did in rome, we're going to need to subjugate Mexico and Canada, and then enslave some decent portion of those populations

>> No.957897

>>955876
Most people who work 40 hours a week in the West don't actually WORK 40 hours a week. The percent of that 40 hours that's spent actually doing labor for the median worker is the lowest its ever been. I mean, I guess you could say "why don't they just let you go home, then?" but then the people who actually work 40 hours a week would start rioting or some shit, I guess.