/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

Also I'd like to add the following considering recent and prior events. Please try and report any harassment you experience or witness during a convention to staff or stewards. This will allow them to take immediate action which will not only keep you safe, but also your fellow con visitors. If you aren't sure whether or not you should report something, than please know that it's always better to report too much rather than too little. Even after the convention is over or when things took place away from the venue, these reports are still extremely valuable as they canl be used to improve security for the next edition.

Convention staff will always have your back and support you where possible. Your safety is their priority. Now let's go back to our regular shitposting and complaining about the heat.

Also.. let's ignore the whole TomoFair Utrecht department (and the rest of Tomo) and continue talking about the things that matters. ;)

>>10203668
but tomofair does matter! it's the best thing on the planet! it mows my lawn, does the laundry, it even cured my cancer! it's miraculous!

>>10204134
Oh man.. I want to congratulate you with the fact that you got cured from cancer! Respect!

>When attacked by a wild bear, odds are you aren't in the Netherlands anymore.

I know I'm not, but I've yet to see a bear.

>>10204157
>>When attacked by a wild bear, odds are you aren't in the Netherlands anymore.
>I know I'm not, but I've yet to see a bear.
At the Binnenweg in Rotterdam perhaps, maybe?

>>10204396
But then I have to get back to the Netherlands! Which I actually will do tomorrow.

Which cosplayer that doesnt really cosplay anymore do you wish would come back?

>>10205432
Every cosplayer who got demotivated and quit after seeing others make so many amazing or better cosplays. Having a bigger average quality in the Dutch cosplay community is a double edged sword like this.

>>10205536
>Every cosplayer who got demotivated and quit after seeing others make so many amazing or better cosplays.
This sucks but I would be lying if i said I never feel this way.

>>10206018
Same. I also sometimes feel like doing a character and then kind of go "no one will recognise it anyway" and then just not do it at all. I know there will be people who will anyway, but it just demotivates me as well.

So how is Tomo Utrecht?

>>10206912
it was crap

>>10206912
as stated on their website, 1/3rd of nijmegen (so really small!). after you entered there were 3 rows of stalls, then a row of banners with [the gameroom] which was pretty large. in the next hall there were 4 food stalls and [the karaoke] which was on a big stage like animecon.

the gameroom and karaoke were done well, but the amount of stalls for a market was lacking a bit.
So, not a lot to do, but the few things you could do, were executed pretty well.

>>10207641
Just not €15 at the door well...

>>10207799
Buy in advance! It's always at least half the price.

>>10207834
Still to much.

>>10207799
that has been this way for years and every convention has a higher door price than presale.

>>10207871
Except this was just a glorified market and not a proper convention. Charging €15 for what >>10207641 described is bonkers and would definitely leave a foul taste in the mouth of the curious last minute visitors.

So this is two tomo events in 2 weeks? or well. One 'Tomo' and one Tomo.

>>10207951
Jep.

Late to the party, but I wanted to ask people who went to Acon:
How were the maid cafes? Anyone been to NNN or SP? And I heard there was a ninja cafe, how did that turn out?

>>10207975
Ninja cafe was last year also at AnimeCon, but I couldn't find it and this year I haven't found it as well. Good at hiding. ;)

NNN was standing in the dark, but their takeout fresh sushi was delicious. The made cafe part looked small. SP were standing behind the bubble tea stand again. Very good placed. But it didn't looked that filled from time to time?

>>10208049
ninja cafe wasn't a cafe, but a matsuri like game booth where you could win snacks and drinks.

>>10208237
THAT'S what it was
jesus I was looking at over the site and stuff where it was supposed to be and walked past 12 times or something.
Cashier maid was cute, very energetic.
Also wasn't it sakura something themed this time and not ninja?
I heard the owner of the ninja cafe did come over as a visitor this year though.

>>10208237
Ah, that is why I couldn't find it.

I've never been to one of these things but always wanted to as a bucketlist kind of deal.
How autistic are these events and how much autism is generally allowed?

>>10209193
Stop trying Woody

>>10210056
Tell me more about this person but also tell me more about dutch cons
Are costumes that aren't animu/vidya related acceptable too?

>>10210510
Most cons allow all kinds of cosplay. Being an elitist about 'western comic cosplay at comic con only and anime cosplay at animecons' will make you unpopular real fast. There's also a large overlap in some areas, like games, that it's near impossible to try and 'police' people's cosplay choices.

as long as it complies with the rules of the con, it's all good. Those rules usually are more about nudity and offensive material.

>>10210684
>offensive material
Despite being an adult manchild I am an edgy teenager at heart, but have no ill intentions.
Would they let you get away with pentagrams or inverted crosses?

>>10211404
Yes.

>>10211404
Easily. That's not considered offensive by most Dutch standards.

Why is it when I look at Hattie Shaw from The Fast and the Furious I see Satiella?

>>10212304
Who?

>>10212304
Ugh no please

Are there still issues with SAL shipping to France and the Netherlands?

>>10214598
Seems over since the first of July.
https://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/information/2019/0624_01_en.html

>>10214602
I am surprised! With the delays PostNL has been having I thought SAL had disappeared forever. I can’t wait to use it again!

Dear lord, Moshi Moshi fair returns in Amstelveen this time. Only the finest bootleg products are sold there.

>>10214770
i mean i guess since it's tomo

>>10214770
Are they going to advertise that it's in Amsterdam too

>>10214865
It's not. Moshimoshi fair is organised by that guy from fame monster, and the reason tomo's there is because fame monster is best buddies with tomo.

>>10215583
You mean fake monster?

It seems that there will be a TomoFair in Zwolle in the near future.

>>10217107
The nice thing about that is it's more accessible for people up north, like me.
Unfortunately it's Tomo.

I retracted the statement because lets not talk about it at all and ignore.

>>10217124
Tomo north? Which city? Link to website?

>>10217689
Be patient, it will be announced soon. But who cares.

>>10217693
ugh no

>>10217689
Zwolle. It's on the guy his FB

What the hell is HisaFest? Another new event??

>>10217851
Hisa Fissa

First time I hear about it.

>>10217851
New event on August 10 with a low entry fee. Their locations seems to be a small bar/event hall so I guess they're going for a small-ish first edition which would also explain the somewhat late announcement.

August is a busy month...

>>10217986
As is custom with the Dutch Anime/Fantasy events

>>10218900
Yeah, so why adding more events?

>>10218903
at least hisa fest is tomo-free! the gameroom is done by a greek restaurant so it's gotta be good!

>>10219234
Gameroom done by a greek restaurant??? what?
Is there a game where you have to throw dishes?

is abunaicon/netherlands english friendly? I imagine so cause all the troublemaking brits seem to enjoy going there.

Is there like a place to find fellow poorfags to room share with?

>>10219338
Alternatief slapen. I currently reserved some spots in a room with some friends. There are a few spots left though. It's only a 15 ish minute walk from the "hotel" to the con.

>>10219853
will they be nice to foreign trash like myself? americans might not be so welcomed

>>10219855
As long as you don't act lika aTrumpanzee, I think you'll be fine.

>>10219275
Sounds fun to me, a stress-relieving method.

>>10219338
>is abunaicon english friendly?
Yes. Everything related to the convention uses English as its primary language. Event hosts will typically ask if anyone in the audience doesn't speaks Dutch and if so, they will just swap to English. Most visitors can also speak English, but prepare for “Dunglish” if you catch them off-guard. As you can imagine it takes some time to fully swap between two languages and tends to tire you out after a while.

>is netherlands english friendly?
Again, yes. We have a lot of foreigners and exchange students living in the larger cities. As such most information at public locations is provided in Dutch and English. Aside from Dutch and English, most of us also speak a bit of German, French and/or Spanish. Just some additional pointers:
- We don’t think you’re special just because you’re from [place country here]. Just be nice and remember you’re a guest in our country and should respect our cultural differences.
- If you walk on a bicycle path (often red asphalt) I swear on my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.
- Our public transport system is reliable and can take you pretty much everywhere. Google Maps and the NS (Dutch Railroads) app both have full English support for our public transport system. You can buy loose tickets or get an anonymous OV Chipkaart, put some money on it and then use it with all Dutch busses, trams and trains.
- When going out for dinner or drinks, tipping is nice but not mandatory as we pay our employees a proper salary. If you say you’re not ready to order yet, don’t expect them to come back until you signal for them. Same goes for ordering drinks.
- Not all stores accept credit cards. When in doubt, ask beforehand.

>>10219853
>Alternatief slapen
Can confirm, despite the outdated site "Alternative Sleeping" is legit and relatively cheap. It's pretty much set up like a hostel so don't expect any real privacy or luxury. https://www.alternatiefslapen.nl/

>>10219855
Of course they will. I don't see why not. If you plan on staying there I can tell you which room I occupy.

>>10219965
>>10219930


thanks a lot, my friends letting me camp with her so that should take care of things, im gonna be crossplaying all 3 days so youd probably find me weird or something.

Is the public transport 24/7 or do you guys have uber(or I guess just walk half an hour..)

the cons in the uk are normie western family friendly that ends at 6pm. What exactly goes on in the con that it lasts till 3am? do you have to be registered with the host hotel to stay past a certain hour or soemthing?

>>10220479
Public transport end times depends on the city. Most of the Randstad area has it 24/7, at most other places it stops somewhere between midnight and 1am. We also have Uber and traditional old taxis. Alternatively you could just rent a bike if your crossplay allows it. Protip: if a friend of yours lives here they can rent out to 2 bikes at the train station with their OV Chipkaart which only costs €3,85 per 24 hours, per bike.

At night cons tend to throw parties with lots of booze, 18+ screenings and the game room will also still be open for all of your drunken Smash Bros needs. You don't have to register at the hotel, your con visitor wrist strap is all you need.

>>10220533

and I assume a british provisional license is good enough? or do I use my passport? I'd love to keep my passport in a safe somewhere if possible

>>10220533
If friday lasts till 3am.. and sat starts at 10am, are they actually even gona kick you out at that point?

>>10220560
If you only have a friday ticket/wristband, they'll kick you out around midnight ;)

>>10220557
In NL it's normal to keep your ID/Passport on you 24/7 because you have to be able to identify yourself at all times in case you get stopped by police. It's an expensive fine if you don't have it on you.
Though I can understand not wanting to carry it on you. What's a British provisional license though?

>planning to go to abunai with a few friends as our very first con
>they all bail after we had already made plans saying they're too busy
Anyone ever go to cons alone? What's it like?

>>10220673
Done that a couple of times. Walk around and you will meet cool people. Even now I know people, I go mostly alone meeting up with them when they have time.

>>10220557
No.

You'll need a national ID card that's valid in the Netherlands or a passport.

>>10220568
At some point they will try to somewhat clear out the con floor and get people to head to their rooms or sleeping accommodation. Not 3am sharp mind you, more like gradually over the course of an hour or 2. You’ll also find pairs of staff/stewards keeping an eye out for anyone in need of medical or emotional assistance. With that said, I wouldn’t recommend pulling all-nighters at conventions. 6-2-1 all the way!

>>10220803

>6-2-1 all the way!

What's 6-2-1?

>>10222672
6 hours sleep, 2 decent meals and above all 1 shower every 24 hours.

Hi all. Just here to ask a serious question since Abunai en Viencon is coming and good weather pops up so now and then.

Who are some good dutch photographers who also are nice to work with who shoot outdoors?

>>10223884
im not sure of all of these are actually attending abunai/viencon, but personally I like zerkon photography (although he said he's retreating a bit from the coscom), robin morgan is nice, kevin jeukens, photos by citrus, pharifocus, chastten... Take your pick lol. there are plenty

What happened to M Fashion? They had way more clothes than the current lolita ''shop'' in the Netherlands. So sad.

>>10225311
MFashion had a lot of brand, but owning a shop in the centre of a city also requires you to sell enough of it. With their prices being so high and people being able to get their hands on brand easier/cheaper, they couldn’t make enough to continue with the store. That and the shop owner left the comm because of drama.
It is impossible to run a physical Lolita store in a country like the Netherlands. You would need a full-time job beside it and own the property or rent it for free/cheap. But even then you will never earn enough to make a profit out of it, or to even be able to live out of it without that other full-time job.

>>10225739
her shop was in a village, though she had an international webshop. and she sold secondhand brand.
>It is impossible to run a physical Lolita store in a country like the Netherlands.
there is a physical lolita shop in the Netherlands right now, also in a village, near the previous shop but a little harder to reach and a worse webshop.

>>10228722
>there is a physical lolita shop in the Netherlands right now, also in a village, near the previous shop but a little harder to reach and a worse webshop.
Did you read the exceptions I provided? If you did, that is why there still is a physical Lolita shop. If it wasn’t for those that shop would not be here now.
MFashion might not have been in a big city, but it was in a village were the rent isn’t particularly cheap. Her secondhand stuff had a good price in general (except for items of less popular brands), but her new items had quite a big mark-up. She maintained her international webshop for a while after the physical shop closed. She later continued on Facebook, but barely sold items. She never adjusted to the changes in the market and that meant the end of her store. That plus she left the Dutch comm after a failed event.

I'm an "ex-cosplayer" and also a hobby-photographer. There was a lot of stuff I disliked about cosplay photogs so at cons now I'm trying to be "better" than that. (creeps, taking forever to send out pics, no good feedback about posing when doing a shoot, overediting pics etc.)

Anything else you anons are irritated about in photogs? I want to remember it so I can avoid it.

Are there any cute/themed places to eat for a lolita in the Netherlands? I'm visiting Amsterdam, Utrecht and Maastricht.

Are there any Japan related events worth going to if you have to travel for 3+ hours? I was gonna go to the moshi moshi fair tomorrow but not anymore..

Went to the last tomofair utrecht the cosplays sucked.
There were like 50 people dressed like todoroki with that i mean only hair.
Games and the shops are okay also Albert Hein yugioh guy.
i really don't know why i am rambling but ok

>>10229469
Photographers posting pics online before asking a cosplayer's opinion. I get that this is different for hallshots, but if you do a (mini)shoot with a cosplayer, at least ask which ones they want online.

Complained last year about wanting to go to abunai, schedule makers are like nah it's during the summer vacation you can't take that friday off. Now suddenly I get told, well I guess you can take the friday off and we traded the weekend so have fun.
How am I supposed to get a place to stay at now T-T

>>10229681
Alternatief Slapen probably has some spots left, which is your best shot right now most likely. Also Buitenjan isn’t that far away, I think it’s a 15 minute walk or something.

>>10229788
Not that anon but lol it says you're not allowed to drink alcohol all weekend. Is that seriously mandatory?

>>10229888
The guy organising it is a massive douche, so Im not suprised if either he or his parents made it up.

>>10229904
Well that sounds horrible. So I guess you really can't get away with drinking then? Abunai would be my first con ever, I'd like to be able to have a drink as well.. staying in an expensive hotel and paying for a taxi to get there at night doesn't sound worth it either. (and not affordable for me in the first place)

>>10229908
I don't think so, he already gets his panties in a twist over having to mop the floor after everyone leaves when muddy shoes have been worn inside. Had a great time at alternatief slapen animecon way back, but then we did have alcohol and a fireplace outside which was comfy af. Ofcourse I can go without drinking, but do I wanna...

>>10229915
How did you drink at animecon then? Or was a different guy organizing that whole thing?

>>10229916
Same guy but some dude just brought a guitar and crates of beer so we sat just outside the building. Maybe someone threw up at alternatief slapen and then the rules changed or the beer dude juust didn't care.

>>10229923
Ah I see.. that sucks. Well I'm looking at a hotel for 1 night now instead of staying 2 nights at alternatief slapen, but I'd have to check out early on sunday so I'm wondering if I can store my bag somewhere at abunai on sunday? I might be bringing a big backpack. (I wish they would update their site already there's barely any info)

>>10229924
They have a bag room, but the line is usually very long so I'd say, check out early on sunday to avoid the after ceremony madness

>>10229888
It's often due to some other douche who can't hold his/her liquor, which makes these rules into reality.

>>10229904
Nah, Having known the guy for like 18 years now i'd say he's quirky, but would not say he's a douche.

>>10229937
After ceremony madness?

>>10229995
The moment when the convention is over and everybody is almost walking all over each other to leave so fast as possible, with long lines at the bus stop. (which means full buses)

>>10229469
Photographer annoyances you wish to avoid? Fine, in no real order:
>Being flakey as fuck or worse, pulling a no-show and/or ghosting.
>Continuously contacting others over stupid things. Just because you shot with someone doesn't mean you're friends.
>Over-estimating or bragging about yourself which only leads to disapointment and people hating your guts.
>Poor editing, especially shitty photoshop jobs. If you want to practice that's fine, but don't post that pixel vomit online. Also don't use the same effects and presets for everything.
>Trashtalking others during a shoot.
>Not giving any instructions while posing or asking for ideas from your model. Also not telling them a piece of their costume is misplaced, hair gone bad etc.
>Not showing any previews during the shoot. You'd be amazed how many things others notice that you have missed.
>Upskirts. Accidental or not, delete them and whatever you do, don't post them!
>Heavy retouching of the skin. Removing things that would be fine in a week like blemishes is generally fine. However not everyone wants to look like some fake rubber lovedoll, so do ask beforehand.
>Using. Fucking. Dutch. Angles. Every. Fucking. Time. For. Every. Fucking. Shot.

>>10230074
>>Using. Fucking. Dutch. Angles. Every. Fucking. Time. For. Every. Fucking. Shot.
First time I heard the term 'dutch angles' I'm assuming you mean excessively tilted angles, which are a plague in photography everywhere

>>10230074
>>10229590
Thank you both!

A lot of that stuff I was already bothered by when I cosplayed myself. So it's good to know I'm not alone.
I'm gonna save those comments so I won't forget.

>>10230154
Yes

>>10229469
>>10230074
Yeah that's pretty good, some things I like to add by personal experience:

Not/late delivering photos is fine, but keep communicating about it. "ive been busy, I may be able to get to them later", "I'm not that excited about the photos so I don't plan on editing/delivering them" is absolutely fine for a quick con shoot.
I don't ask for con photos even though a lot of them I don't get back after taking the time for a certain photographer and that's fine for me, but if you'd like to have them, do communicate about it.
I also like to ask in advance if they could edit my skin for dark circles/awkward shadows and bad skin. Some people don't like it done to their photos but I do so I make that clear in advance sometimes. But only if the photographer would like to do so aswell.

Many photographers don't spot obvious costume flaws so you can't blame them for that, so make sure that you show the cosplayer every unique photo/pose up close so they can point out certain things. That'll make for nicer photos even though sometimes you have to redo a pose a couple times if you want to take the time for a nice shot.

>>10230074
>>10230720

As a photographer I take special care to take all of these points in mind.

Always tell people to contact me if they haven't seen any photos after 1 month of shooting, just so they're not afraid to ask me about it.
Always ask if they are ok with editing skin / small parts of the costume.
Always show them preview shots so they can tell me if they like the photos we took or not.
Usually I try to have one cosplayer with me to assist during a shoot too, and the reason is actually two fold; They see costume/posing errors I don't, and I'm not comfortable being alone with cosplayers because I really don't wanna be that creep-photog , and god knows it's easy to get that reputation in the cosplay scene.

But to be fair;
A lot of cosplay photographers are in no way pro's, and are surrounded by circle jerkers that don't give proper feedback on their work or their behavior. Having people constructively tell you you did a shit job is a lot more rewarding than having a large number of followers pressing like on your latest post.

In the end if you're a hobby cosplay photographer it's honestly all good if you're having fun and the cosplayer is having fun. So you don't need to deal with all these aspects really and do what comes natural/preferred to you.

>>10230726
I strongly disagree. So far all of these pointers are things that will help you improve your shots, final product and the social aspect that comes with taking pictures of others. Just because something is a hobby doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get better at it. If anything seeing your own growth is what makes creative hobbies such as these so worthwhile.

>>10230726
>>10230775

You know, if you enjoy your hobby in a way where you don't grow, more power to you. You're not hurting me, but I'll sure be bitching about your work if you post it online if you talk like you're hot shit.

>>10231084
But are there really people here that do talk like they're hot shit? I never came across photographers like that in NL

>>10231522
Yes, or least a few who act like their work is flawless while in reality it really isn't.

So how is Castlefest people?

>>10233939
Same old. Role-playing elitists, folk bands who are so in touch with nature that they decorate their mic stands with plastic vines, bootleg sellers, and overpriced food.

WCS team Netherlands is through to the finals!
>>10234431
Sounds like it's good ol' castlefest. Nice and comfy, full of wasps and mead.

Did anyone of you went to Atsusacon / Atsusafest? What did you think? How good/ bad was it in comparison to previous editions?

>>10234637
Totally forgot about that fest.

Hey I’m wondering if it’s possible to stay at the buitenjan without a group. I was going to abunai with a group but only one of us can go now so we’re about to cancel our hotel room and we’re looking for options for the person who can still go.
Advice?

>>10235042
Can't that one person just keep the room and find a new roommate?

>>10235273
Its a room for 3 people (and not very cheap) so they’d have to find 2 additional people. It’s also quite far from the venue so it doesn’t seem very worthwhile

When do they announce abunai 2020 Dates?

I wana reserve a hotel room asap and not be a non-host hotel pleb

>>10235960
Abunai is always in the last weekend of August.

>>10235960


Abunai 2020 will be from August 21st to 23rd

Since the hotel is unavailable that weekend. ;)

>>10236152
but you cant even book that far off yet

>>10236152
EDIT:
So when I checked a couple of months ago the hotel didn't have any rooms available for august 21-23, 2020.

I just checked again and those dates are available now and now august 28-30 2020 is unavailable.

>>10236117

Abunai is not always the last weekend of august (see this year)

>>10236164

Smartasses like me have tried booking a con-hotel room a year in advance, so yes, you can try to book that far ahead, however, due to the contract Abunai has with the koningshof, hotelrooms are never available the weekend Abunai will take place.

>>10236243
>ou can try to book that far ahead, however, due to the contract Abunai has with the koningshof, hotelrooms are never available the weekend Abunai will take place.

wait so how exactly do we get rooms then if you cant even book it a year in advance? do they just open it after an announcement and everyone just rushes in?

>>10236301


The Annual Abunai Hotel Hunger Games usually take place in May and are announced 2-3 week in advance.

On the announced date you'll get access to a form which you have to fill out and send it to the hotel, the hotel will then assign rooms on a -first come first serve- basis.

This year Abunai's website gloriously crashed within seconds after they opened, as too many weebs tried to access the Form.

Is it normal for representatives to make something else for their respective finals? Team paraluna seem to be making something else, even though I think I like their Assassin's creed costumes better. ICL duo and solo have announced to be making something else as well. Is there a rule for it?

Asking for a friend

>>10236638
Yes and no. They're using their AC costumes for the contest, but the other costumes for the Parade, as they said in their IG stories.
If the finals are just a few months after the Prelims, it's generally accepted to use the same costumes. However, if you've got 6 months or more, it's generally expected of you to create something new for the finals.

>>10236638
It's generally considered lazy if you have time and don't make something new. But even for wcs you don't have to, although you are expected to at least improve your act if you don't bother to change your costumes.

>>10234467
>>10234637
funny how this got completely ignored.

well, apparently the only thing keeping this thread alive is the abunai hunger games and tomotalk®

>>10236638
Depends on the contest and the cosplayers

For eurocos, most dont since those are very detail heavy costumes.
For ECG, u litterly are not allowed to since its 2 weeks after the prelim for us
ICL, depends on the cosplayer. it is allowed
Cicaf, most will since u can do a 5 minute act instead of 2.5
Gicof, u have 2 months... so probably no one will
C4, most will since u have 1 whole year
WCS, as long as u qualify with a japanese costume u dont have to make something else. But if u qualify with a non japanese costume, like the year we had mortal kombat winning at the prelim, you are forced to make a new costume. But for WCS u have to bring 4/5 costumes EXTRA which all have to be japanese as well so i can see why teams wont make a new finals costume

Hope this helped!

>>10237043
I didn't go to Castlefest or Atsusafest.

Is anyone attending Hisafest tommorow?

>>10236650

Good to read. I have not seen their act as I only arrived at Animecon on saturday but their AC costumes looked really good.

>>10237209
This helped a lot! Thank you! ECG was understandable, I just didn't understand why ICL and GICOF would change out their costumes with only 2 or 3 months to go. GICOF is apparently not changing.

Damn, I also did not realise how many costumes WCS contestants had to bring. That is a lot.

>>10237836

I ended up not going. It just didn't felt worth the travel.

I did any one else go?

>>10239305
The guys from DDR told me there where only 8 visitors who bought a ticket.

>>10239324
Such a joke if this is true.

>>10238386

The amount of extra cosplays is not a must but advised as the heat and number of events make rewearing hard sometimes. But you’re fully allowed to bring less. Only real rule is that you can not wear your finals cosplay to one of the side events

>>10239335
They only had announced the event 1 month before it took place, right? I haven't seen a lot of promotion to be honest. Dordtse Matsuri is doing it much better in that case.

I just spotted a lolita irl. First time I've seen it outside a con. She looked really normal compared to what my image is of them. She was obviously wearing a petticoat but nobody batted an eye, like it was a normal outfit you see in the train every day.

>>10240350
As it should be.

Would it be weird to wear Lolita at abunai? It's the only cosplay-ish outfit that I have lol

>>10241255
Not really, it is a convention after all. Just be prepared for having a few people asking you what you're cosplaying and perhaps a few dirty looks from elitist lolita's who can't handle people wearing lolita to a convention.

>>10241272
Would probably get dirty looks from lolitas either way since it's a cheap bodyline outfit with shoes that are a different shade of pink than the rest of the outfit (which was by accident) lol

Dutch comm, please invite Lief to your events

How is everyone dealing with the con crunch?

Is Viencon still a thing? I haven't heard anyone talk about it in a hot minute.

>>10242948
Sadly it is

>>10242948
Yup 1000 visitors this time. Growing bigger even. :)

>>10242924
Current status

>>10241272
They don’t give you dirty looks because they think you can’t wear it to a convention. They give you dirty looks because your coord looks/your personality is Ita.

>>10241740
Who?

>>10243016
Nice attempt to advertise

>>10243345
Why do you dutchies hate Vien so much? Britfag invader here (checking for abunai gossip) and everyone here thinks Vien is the absolute shit and is dying to go.

>>10243346
I guess people dislike the fact that Vien named his event Viencon, as if he is a narcissistic prick. Plus the first event was cancelled because he and his crew didn't know how to promote an event. Also, they promised an event where you could swim all day long and eventually it the real first Viencon was a shared event and not everyone liked it. I guess people can't fail in this world. I do feel that they still need to work on the promotional side.

Who else here #0calories till sunday?

>>10243346
Why do you british think it's the shit? There are so many way more better events out there. The fact that people act like it is the best thing ever is already annoying enough on it's own.

>>10243723
Maybe some like to kiss some ass.

>>10243723
Maybe because it has its unique concept and some of us like the idea of going to a resort and convention in one? I'm a Dutch person living abroad, but I wished I could go to Viencon.

>>10243723
Yeah what the last anon said. It's basically the closest thing we're gonna get to Colossalcon in Europe.

>>10243723
Absolute nobody says its the best thing ever but the ppl who actuallly went had a really good time. Thats what ppl are talking about.

lol @ 2 animecon's next year. One in june and one in autumn.

>>10243740
hahahahaha ‘unique’

>>10243790
People obviously do and if some say they don’t they’re clearly lying or blind

>>10243760
>It's basically the closest thing we're gonna get to Colossalcon in Europe.
That's the saddest thing I've heard all week.

Dave Rodgers, the guy from Deja Vu/Initial D , is coming to the Netherlands on the 2nd of August.

Anyone planning on going to his event?

>>10243885
I hope you mean 2 September?

>>10243790


Yeah, but don't forget they had a good time because it was like a mini weeb holiday in a cottage in center parks and not because it was actually a convention with actual events and such.

people seem to forget this part.

>>10243893
I can imagine why people enjoy that, because a cottage is pretty cool. There is also a lot of space. But I can also imagine that there are people who don't like this at all (but they don't come to this event, because it is not for them).

>>10243793
So it seems that the Autumn edition will take place in Rotterdam, and the Spring/Summer edition in Almelo. I am not sure what to think about this.

>>10243793
>>10243897
Animecon on tour?

>>10243760
Closest thing for the Netherlands. In terms of Europe there are many others like riminicomix in Italy which is at a beach resort. In germany there is an anual cosplay gathering in a waterpark.

imagine going to a con to see your friends. how many people actually do the events? kekykek.
sure there's much wrong things about viencon which can be improved, but still.

i think it's always so easy to salt and complain without trying something yourself. or does everyone want commercial profitdriven comic cons?

>>10243903
more like a mature tomocon?

>>10243982
sorry I stopped being able to take you serious at ''kekykek''

>>10243982
>i think it's always so easy to salt and complain
That is what the Dutch people are good at, right?

>>10243895


I can see why people imagine that too but that still doesn't make Viencon a great con or even a con.

If you say viencon is great con because of the cottages, than we should be calling 'de buitenjan' a con as well.

Viencon is a nice concept. Would not call it a con, but it's fun anyway, so who really cares.

I think Animecon's move is nice. As I get it from fb, the Ahoy finishes that congress centre in autumn, and they want to use it. So they keep their old "time" with something that looks different. And for most of us old farts it's back to the days when everything was better.

>>10244045
No I don't even have the idea it is a convention, but just an overgrown pool party named by the organizer (which is still stupid imho) with a few activities what you can also find on other small events and conventions. But yeah.. Buitenjancon sounds good!

>>10244047
I forgot about that congress center.

>>10243346
Its just 1 or 2 people btw reposting negative stuff. They barely have people who agree with them on their old facebook posts. Viencon reviews prove its a great place to go. All those revoew are not anonymous like here. Its pointless for them to complain. They are still bitter losers from last year. Please, lets ignore. Many regulars here are really going to Viencon and love it. Dont be swayed by these loners.

>>10243345
Always.

>>10243416
Actually no. I hear noone complain but one person... Noone cares Vien called it that. Btw they dont know why he called it Viencon. It just started as a joke. A joke others made which with their support was made a reality.

>flying to NL tomoz
>woke up midnight
>still procrastinating packing, but at least my cosplay essentials are all read yin my carryon

this is gonna be a long and tiring day, at least that means ill probably sleep like a rock tonight and be recharged

People going to Abunai, what are you all gonna wear?

>>10243903
Ooh what's that German one? I'd like to go.

>>10244073
Okay son I don't need this INTENSE shilling to decide whether to go to the event. If anything this made me not want to go.

>>10244073
I don't think there are many people who are negatively talking about Viencon, there are quite a few people who are not interested in the event (but they don't say much about it, because they know that everybody has a different taste and that is great). That there are a few people talking negative about an event is just normal. If they become more, then it becomes bad.

>>10244281
Clothes.

>>10244298
Got ya hahaha

>>10244304
You cant know how good an event is if you dont go there. There might be different reasons why someone cant go. Its usually more to do with that. Or people who love lectures and stuff, in that case, its not for you.

Where can I find out about cosplay meets for Abunai? Hoping there's a JJBA meetup.

>>10244298
Seems a bit weird trigger as a response. Someone hit a nerve? Calm down, person wasnt offending you or was it?

>>10244415
>You cant know how good an event is if you dont go there.
True, but did I say that the people who talk bad haven't been to the event? Because I don't know them, so I can't say. And I am not talking negative about this event but haven't been there yet.

>>10244073


> Many regulars here are really going to Viencon and love it.

Who are you kidding?

>>10244075
Then my name is Noone. Hi all!

>>10244416
Here you go: https://www.abunaicon.nl/things-to-do/2019-cosplay/cosplay-meet-up-schedule-2019/

>>10244424
>https://www.abunaicon.nl/things-to-do/2019-cosplay/cosplay-meet-up-schedule-2019/
Thanks anon!

>>10244421
He hasnt advertised himself alot. And alot folks dont even know a person named Vien is running it. So your complaint is kind of pointless.

>>10244432
You are very welcome, still proof that this place can be pretty helpful, right? ;)

>>10244420
Not enough regulars going or not enough loving it?

>>10244436
Maybe he doesn't do it anymore..

What do you guys think of animecon being twice a year.

To give the truth i do t think it is a very clever idea after thinks i heard. Mostly that last acon they where struggling financially. If so is this really a good move.?and will the quality be still be oke?

>>10243897
>>10244458
Still not sure what to think about this.

>>10244458
Woepsy i mean i dont find it a clever idea

>>10244297
Can't find a more recent announcement, but it's called "cosbase party" it's like a cosplay meet at tropical island . My german is shit so don't really understand most of the stuff.
hmmm the board doesn't allow me to post the link. It says it is spam, but google on Cosbase party.

>>10244507
I speak german so i'll tl/dr it when I'm back from abunai. Thanks anon!

Who is planning to come to Dordtse Matsuri?

>>10243892
2nd of September, yes. On a Monday, yes. In Delft, free entrance. They're going to record a video clip of a new song, and they want to make it into a big party.

>>10244544
Nana!

>>10244571
Will she cosplay? Oh wow!

>>10244564
Do you have a source for the location? Last I can find on the official channels is time and location TBD and I really want to go

>>10244621
My source is direct contact with some organizers. The venue will be 100% sure Monday, when the owner of the venue will return from his holidays.

>>10244827
Sick, thanks for the heads up

Is Amsterdam Comiccon dead yet? Hope so.

>>10244910
Wasn't it planned at the end of this month?

>>10243795
"Unique" to the Netherlands definitely.

>>10244571
Sounds an event to avoid then.

>>10214770
It's funny how you talk about bootlegging at Moshi Moshi and Tomo events. You do know bootlegging happens on Animecon en Abunaicon as well right ?
Not to mention, that if you want to remove a bootlegger seller from your event, and the person has not been sued and lost it's case, a convention is not allowed to remove these bootlegger sellers, right ?
Even when a convention denies the bootleg seller, they can be sued for blocking access. It happened to Tomo mind you, when they wanted to remove a bootleg seller, and were confronted with either let them sell, or getting sued. It's sad, but don't blame Tomo for the bootleg selling, that's just stupid.

>>10244984
If that is the case, that is really really shitty and unfair.

>>10244989
That's how law works in the Netherlands, actually, in the European Union.
It's not fair for the selling party that, in case the bootlegging is invalid and void, he would have been hurt as well.
It's a knife that cuts at 2 sides.

I agree, bootleggers should be kicked out and stay the F away from conventions, but sadly the law is there and prevents it from happening.
Animecon and Abunaicon have willingly removed sellers from their grounds, which could create a precedent for getting sued.

Either way, you need to look it from both sides. It's also not fair that in case a convention says the guy is selling bootlegs, but in the end it wasn't, then what... ? Will the convention openly say sorry ? It still damaged the sellers business.

>>10244991
Bootleg is illegal. If you cannot show licenses for the wares that you're selling, then you can be removed if I'm not mistaken.
If you're a shop then at least you should have some things prepared?

>>10244996
"Bootleg is illegal."
Correct.

"If you cannot show licenses for the wares that you're selling, then you can be removed if I'm not mistaken."
That's incorrect, it doesn't matter if you can or cannot show this.
If the person has been fined and sued for selling the bootlegs, then you have a hefty hand.
Without any court case and end case, you are not allowed to remove a seller, strictly speaking.

"If you're a shop then at least you should have some things prepared?"
Correct, but in this case the points you're making, are now lawful binding, sadly.
Hence why Tomo was unable to remove or is unable to remove bootleg sellers from their ground.

>>10244998
I meant with "are now lawful binding" I meant "are not lawful binding".
Sorry for the typo :)

>>10244996
>>10244998
also fake is sad can't sue them. only the dutch customs, a legitemate rights holder or a representative of that company can. so unless fake is sad comes with a contract stating that they can do bootleg checks on the pokemon company's behalf, their verdict has no value.

>>10244984
>>10244991
>>10244996
>>10244998
>>10245001
Really interesting to read all of this, thanks!

>>10245003
No problem.
Hopefully this explains why Tomo is not able to do much about the bootleggers.
They tried, but they got confronted by the law.
Abunai/Animecon and other conventions should watch out, if they try to remove the wrong business from their grounds that bite back, they can get in trouble.

>>10245005

but still? won't the Bootleggers have no case in court? "yes I was selling things which copyright lies elsewhere and I have no contract for selling them"

how would that hold up? genuinely interested

>>10245049

and id like to add to myself: don't most cons have a clause in their terms and conditions about selling bootlegs? isn't that (legal) reason enough to be able to show them the door?

>>10245050
Yup most conventions if not all work with contracts and by signing that contract you agree to the rules. Not selling bootlegs is usually one of those rules. At the last Animecon they threw out a French guy who was selling large prints he nicked from the internet.

Fabion, the sword dealer is another Animecon example, no licenses to show whatsoever, that in combination with selling swords to people who where clearly not 18 years old. Animecon appeared to have said, better stay away next year while you get your shit in order, no harrasing us won't help you, in fact it makes it worse, here is a perma-ban for your effort.

Conventions don't have to facilitate in what is basically an economic delict, selling bootleg is still a criminal activity, taking a convention to court on slander is nothing more than an attempt at bullying a convention into some kind of submission. It won't fly, and they know it.

the named examples and other know bootleggers will be at FirstLook, they really don't give a shit.

>>10245049

That has been answered already.
The convention organisation is not a customs agent and/or eligable to do anything about it.

>>10245050

It's a contract that violates the law...
So even if they signed it, it's void.

>>10245103

A permaban is all fun and dandy, but the business can dispute it.

Is it just me or is this friday at Abunai a lot less busier as previous years?

>>10245200

There are anout 3500 people, now, dunno about last year.

Dear Dutch,
This DJ is anime league tier where the fuck.are deshima
Love,
Bongistan

>>10245184
Well good luck with that I guess, you have to take it to court where you will be defending a indefensible position.

You as a dealer want to commit an economic delict in which the organisation does not wish to participate and therefore bans you from their dealerroom.

>>10245252
>>10245103
Talking about Fabion. They actually have a case. They sell stuff which has no original. This is somewhat of a grey area, but basically they can sell whatever sword they want as long as they don't claim it's officially from a particular series or anime, but writing "inspired by" on the signs makes their practices perfectly legal. They could easily sue animecon for unfair competition and win.

>>10245103
>>10245178
Follow-up:
I have one of these oly factory plushies. Are these bootleg? According to us, definitely yes! But according to the law? Actually no! Nowhere has it a pokemon logo or anything which hints at that. It doesn't claim to be a pokemon, it's a "generic animal plushie". And here lies the problem: banning this from your con is playing your own judge and could get you in real trouble.

My point is: due to all the grey areas it's almost impossible for a convention host to reliably judge whether something breaks the law or not, so it's up to a judge to decide, not up to you! So no conviction means no ban!

>>10245200
>>10245206
Talking about 'lot less busier': Saturday tickets are still not sold out, right?

>>10245373
They also sell a lot of swords that are clearly copies of swords used in games and movies, if they can produce the licences that show beyond doubt that they are allowed to sell those than they have a case. As for unfair competition, did you see other sword dealers at Acon this year? Because if there where then I have missed them.

Still even if there where and it would be taken to court then my guess is that Acon has the whole harrasment thingy nicely documented.

Again, you are defending a indefensible position. Unfair competition, maybe? But as a dealer you don't have rights for a place in their dealerroom, they offer you a place for a sum of money and ask if you adhere to the houserules, failing on one of those....

>>10245410

What for you is clearly, is for others not, that's because it's your own opinion.
They don't have to show any license to you at all, unless they use the brand of the original, then they are obviously in violation.

Sadly, it could be seen as Acon being the harrassing party, as they are the ones instigating the whole thing.

"Again, you are defending a indefensible position."

And again to you as well, you are not the judge and jury, you may have a opinion, but that has no weight in a court case.

>>10245411
Well it has been a few years ago that Fabion was kicked, 3 or 4 years, long enough to take Animecon by now I would say. Why haven't they done it?

>>10245411
Well it has been a few years ago that Fabion was kicked out, 3 or 4 years, long enough to take Animecon to court by now I would say. Why haven't they done it?

Actually, a lot of what is written here is actually wrong.

A convention has the right to remove a seller based on illegal activities, just like any other person.
Now, indeed they do not directly work for the company who's items are infringed, but they can.

The CvTA actually agrees with the way events like Abunai and Animecon handle these situations, and as far as I know, all the attempt to sue an event over this have failed miserably (I know of 2 such attempts).

So while it all sounds really threatening, in practice it has already been shown that the law in these cases is on the events' side.

Also, making something very similar without making the actual claim it is the same can still be considered an infringement. Usually, we see it with more high-end products or logos, because these are actually taken to court.

>>10245504

"A convention has the right to remove a seller based on illegal activities, just like any other person."
Yes, but illegal activities decided by whom ? The convention staff ? They are not eligable to claim something illegal, that's up to the customs, judge and/or license holder.
Staff of a convention is not allowed to decide what is or is not illegal, at the most "not wanted" activity, but there has been a very, very good ground before you can decide something is illegal.

"Now, indeed they do not directly work for the company who's items are infringed, but they can."
Sadly no, the law states clearly only customs, a judge or the license holder is able to flag something as infringement.

"The CvTA actually agrees with the way events like Abunai and Animecon handle these situations, and as far as I know, all the attempt to sue an event over this have failed miserably (I know of 2 such attempts)."
The law, judgements and lawyers saying otherwise, so you say they are lying ?
Seriously, CvTA can say whatever they want, they are not a judge or lawyers.
I will ask them myself if what you are saying, is indeed correct, cause I'm 100% sure a organisation is not allowed to ban/prohibit or be a judge if something is deemed illegal or not.

"So while it all sounds really threatening, in practice it has already been shown that the law in these cases is on the events' side. "
... No there has not been a judgement or court case, so this has nothing to do with 'law', this is your own interpretation and so-called information given from a party called the CvTA.

"Also, making something very similar without making the actual claim it is the same can still be considered an infringement."
Partly true, but no, a license holder or "copyright" then first must be disputed.
Enough difference will make the copyright claim void.

"Usually, we see it with more high-end products or logos, because these are actually taken to court."
That's more of a 'duh' response.

>>10245508

"Yes, but illegal activities decided by whom ? The convention staff ? They are not eligable to claim something illegal, that's up to the customs, judge and/or license holder.
Staff of a convention is not allowed to decide what is or is not illegal, at the most "not wanted" activity, but there has been a very, very good ground before you can decide something is illegal."
Staff can decide if something has a strong scent of illegal activity, and is actually expected to take action. No judge or case has to be made first. Otherwise, for instance, a bouncer can't kick out a drug dealer at a club. Since events tend to work with FiS, which actually is endorsed by quite a few brands in the industry and can be said to be a experts on the topic, events are well equipped to deal with this.

"Seriously, CvTA can say whatever they want, they are not a judge or lawyers."
Nor do I claim this, stop with the rhetorics, you are not impressing anybody

"No there has not been a judgment or court case, so this has nothing to do with 'law', this is your own interpretation and so-called information given from a party called the CvTA."
No, seriously, now you are really grasping at straws.
There have been 2 actual cases where a seller tried to take an event to court. And in both cases, the event had no problem at all and the seller wisely decided to not pursue the issue further. You can try to twist words, but this is what it is.

"Partly true, but no, a license holder or "copyright" then first must be disputed.
Enough difference will make the copyright claim void."

True enough, I never claimed otherwise.

So, now let's go over what a case would be.
Seller says he does nothing wrong, because nobody has shown before the fact that the goods were illegal. He will try to get money for lost income.
The seller exposes himself to two very dangerous and likely scenarios.

... continuing

>>10245520

1) He will have to prove how much, thus showing having to show the financials of the items in questions. The event can show quite easily that these are far below licensed production costs.
2) the event will use a representative of the company to show that the materials are indeed not licensed. Now, even if you would be right and the event would be in the wrong, the actual license holder can go hard on the seller.


You are operating in the assumption that someone who knows he sells something illegal wants to go to a lawsuit. In general, that is a very bad idea as it makes you very, very vulnerable.

As I said, and you refuse to believe, it has been tried before.

>>10245520
Your examples are weird...\

"Staff can decide if something has a strong scent of illegal activity, and is actually expected to take action."\
They are expected to take action, when they can.
If you do something against the law, doesn't make it right, because people "expect it" is just bad...

"No judge or case has to be made first."
The law says otherwise... ?

"Otherwise, for instance, a bouncer can't kick out a drug dealer at a club."
What is this for example ?
Of course you can kick a drugs dealer out when he is selling drugs, that's just plain stupid example.
You cannot compare those both things, that's utter strange...

"Nor do I claim this, stop with the rhetorics, you are not impressing anybody"
Sorry, but you brought up CvTA, or was it just a lie now ?

"No, seriously, now you are really grasping at straws."
Excuse me, why are you backing off with your own words now ?

"There have been 2 actual cases where a seller tried to take an event to court. And in both cases, the event had no problem at all and the seller wisely decided to not pursue the issue further. You can try to twist words, but this is what it is. "
If that is the case, mind want to copy/paste those 2 case court ID's, I'm rather interested with that claim, as I haven't spotted anything of that sort yet, thanks.

"True enough, I never claimed otherwise."
You said the convention staff can decide as well, which is wrong, which you, in fact, claimed.
To quote yourself: "A convention has the right to remove a seller based on illegal activities"

I'm not going into a meaningless mudthrow competition you're instigating now, as you think a convention staff is above the law.
Good luck with this I would say.

Anything exciting happening or is there some juicy drama at Abunai?

Kinda bored in the hotel atm

>>10245552
Ah, the famous listen to my reply, and you are wrong, I race off now.

"The law says otherwise... ?"
It doesn't, that is why they can do it.

"Of course you can kick a drugs dealer out when he is selling drugs, that's just plain stupid example"
No, it is not. because in both cases the person selling it is selling something illegal. In your world, the bouncer first need to have a judge rule that the goods the person selling are indeed drugs.

"Sorry, but you brought up CvTA, or was it just a lie now?"
Yes, but that is unrelated to the cases.

"Excuse me, why are you backing off with your own words now ?"
No, that is me saying you are really trying hard to make something your wrong about right.

"If that is the case, mind want to copy/paste those 2 case court ID's, I'm rather interested with that claim, as I haven't spotted anything of that sort yet, thanks."
"...and the seller wisely decided to not pursue the issue further." For someone who pretends to know law, you read pretty selectively

I really wonder why you keep insisting that you have a better grasp of the law in this case than a multitude of events who do this for a few decades, some supporting organizations on the topic and some cases where the dealer try to intimidate but did not pursue the event.

Anyway, if I were you, just try and prove all these people and organizations wrong.

>>10245565

"Ah, the famous listen to my reply, and you are wrong, I race off now."
More like you're unable to answer my questions, and thus you back off without any proof of any kind...

"It doesn't, that is why they can do it."
You have it seems a wrong idea of how the law works, cause it's there, I can copy/paste it to you if you wish... and you can't, since you don't have any details for that...

"No, it is not. because in both cases the person selling it is selling something illegal."
You do know the difference between DRUGS, and POSSIBLE BOOTLEG, cause that's what it is, a opinion of yourself stating that something is bootleg.
That's called being your own judge, which is not a legal way, mind you.

"In your world, the bouncer first need to have a judge rule that the goods the person selling are indeed drugs."
Nope, that's again where your rhetoric goes bad. Any drug is not legal in a "club", it all depends where it's sold.
As far a I know, it's by law illegal to sell any kind of drugs in a club, as for you saying that selling bootlegs or "possible" bootlegs is by default illegal, which is, sorry for you to say, wrong.

"Yes, but that is unrelated to the cases."
... We are talking about how conventions deal with possible bootleg sellers, and you brought up CvTA as a example that says it's all okay how Abunai and Animecon handles this, how in the hell is this unrelated...

"No, that is me saying you are really trying hard to make something your wrong about right."
So you say that all the information I gathered from 3rd party, and lawyers, is wrong ?
Sounds like you putting your head into the sand.

""...and the seller wisely decided to not pursue the issue further." For someone who pretends to know law, you read pretty selectively"
So basically you have no proof whatsoever about these cases.
Sounds rather flimsy at the most.

>>10245565
"I really wonder why you keep insisting that you have a better grasp of the law in this case than a multitude of events who do this for a few decades, some supporting organizations on the topic and some cases where the dealer try to intimidate but did not pursue the event."
Well, sadly for you, I had experience with this as well, and I can tell you, your way of thinking will stab you in the face at some point.
Thinking that just because one of the sellers didn't "proceed" with a court case, doesn't mean what you and the other conventions deem "legal", is illegal at the most.
Let's just say, let's hope Abunai and Animecon doesn't confront a seller that has got a good case and sue the shit out of them, cause what Abunai and Animecon does, is not legal, at all.

Good luck ;)

>>10245556
High Tech Low Life is playing, the beer tasting and shibari workshop just began. Cocktailbar and the LARP related casino opens at 22:00, AbuBeats starts at 23:00.

Also no drama so far. Or at least none for me which is exactly how I want to keep things.

>>10245610
>Let's just say, let's hope Abunai and Animecon doesn't confront a seller that has got a good case and sue the shit out of them, cause what Abunai and Animecon does, is not legal, at all.
Why would they sue, you already are in violation of their houserules that you have to adhere to the moment you signed the dealer contract.

But you dispute that, I am not selling illegal stuff, well take it to court CvTA or a court. Perhaps, maybe you are right.. although I seriously doubt it.

And then, do you really think you will be allowed to take a place at Acon, it is their convention and they won´t invite you, no explanation has to be given, period.

Sue again, for what, lost revenue, discrimination, what?

Impressed by how thoroughly you guys have infiltrated the abunai beats messages

t.deshima stan

>>10245645

"Why would they sue, you already are in violation of their houserules that you have to adhere to the moment you signed the dealer contract."
Houserules is also not lawful.
Sure you can make them follow the houserules, and just saying "no bootleg selling" is still something that you cannot force.
Again, a staff member is not legible to check up if something is bootleg or not, either a convention calls the customs (and often customs won't come, simply because if costs money for them to come, and that will be forwarded to the organisation), or nothing at all.
Banning a seller is also something that's lawfully prohibited. You would think that a convention organisation could choose whoever they like to come on their event, but that's not how it works. It's late and I don't feel like explaining this again, as I did before.

"But you dispute that, I am not selling illegal stuff, well take it to court CvTA or a court. Perhaps, maybe you are right.. although I seriously doubt it."
CvTA already responded that they are indeed not able eligible to make a statement about what is or is not bootlegging.
Some of the sellers, as I heard, don't even feel like doing business with Abunai or Animecon, even if their stuff is completely deemed legal. They hurt their business, purely since Abunai/Animecon damages their brand, even if legal.

"And then, do you really think you will be allowed to take a place at Acon, it is their convention and they won´t invite you, no explanation has to be given, period."
Some sellers don't even care about Animecon or Abunai, simply because they treat their business partners like criminals....

"Sue again, for what, lost revenue, discrimination, what?"
I think I won't be needing to explain this to you, do I...

>>10245681
You are an idiot.

>>10245681
Oh and good luck with your business at First Look I guess.

>>10245692
And you sure, are a rude individual.
Shut up if you have nothing to say, other then being rude.

>>10245696
... so you make a assumption... Nice, you must be the smartass around here I guess ?

CYKA BLYAT
RUSSIAN HARDBASS FOREVER

>>10245712
Agreed !
Although I prefer Terrorcore/Rawstyle/Frenchcore more :D

>>10245681
wow that exploded fast!

Guys I completely understand that a convention wants to uphold the image that they can freely ban dealers based upon their house rules.
In fact, I didn't really want to bring awareness to this subject in the first place because, as a dutch proverb states, don't wake sleeping lions!
But when Tomo DCC, Firstlook and others get accused of not doing anything about bootleg and not listening to their visitors over and over again I simply have to point out that they can't "just kick them out". They're doing whatever they can to combat bootleg but they have something against them: the dutch law.

>>10245378
following up on my oly-factory pluchie. these are legal! don't believe me?
here's an example of a playstation 3 controller:
https://www.ecommercenews.nl/in-hoeverre-mag-je-namaak-verkopen/
these are legal as well! Banning a seller of these from your convention will get you in trouble!

So to summarize:
Are you a convention and want to combat bootleg: Call the customs! (their phone number is 0800 - 0143 - see https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/contact/content/belastingtelefoon-douane))
Do you want to kick out a dealer which you think is selling bootleg? Call the customs!

You cannot play your own judge! EVER.

What can you do as visitor:
Don't buy bootleg. it's supply and demand, if there's no demand there's no supply.

>>10245705
Not the same anon, but still you are stupid

>>10245835

Saying that someone is stupid, not explaining why, would just lower your IQ below idiotic, but whatever man, hope you have a nice life.

>>10245818
>You cannot play your own judge! EVER.
But then they usually also give you the opportunity of removing the offending items that are for sale and carry on with your business.

Failing or not willing to do after 2 or even more warnings gives them the proverbial stick. At that point there is no discussion, out! You signed a contract and violated it, but you can´t be the judge you claim. Yes they can, and if not, well that is something for later, no discussion or heated debates on the spot, out!

Abunai and Acon are long running conventions, in all those years only two attempts have been made to take it to court, I know of one case which came from a lawyers office on behalve of a dealer. I don´t know about the other one. To be short on it, it would never ever have gotten of the ground, there was no case to begin with, a waste of time and money and that dealer is still not allowed back in to the dealerroom.

And that´s the whole point, the organisation will allow you a spot in the dealerroom or they don´t, being a nuisance, rude and or breaking the contract rules diminishes the chances of you getting that spot in the dealerroom or they won´t even invite you anymore.

And yes they can do that, so don´t be an arse in trying to sell that merchandise at the convention. Leave those for your web store or shop. Waving a bundle of banknotes is not going to impress either, the same goes for saying "you can't fill your dealerroom without me", oh yes they can.

>>10245839
"But then they usually also give you the opportunity of removing the offending items that are for sale and carry on with your business."
... so you say that doesn't fall under the "playing your own judge" ?
You are basically saying exactly that, forcing a business to stop selling something, because you think it's not legal ?
Boy oh boy...

"Failing or not willing to do after 2 or even more warnings gives them the proverbial stick. At that point there is no discussion, out! You signed a contract and violated it, but you can´t be the judge you claim. Yes they can, and if not, well that is something for later, no discussion or heated debates on the spot, out!"
So, you are saying that if someone is following the law, selling something that you cannot validate is illegal, still, you think a convention staff is legally allowed to harm a business ? Boy, you're in for a rude wake-up call..

"Abunai and Acon are long running conventions, in all those years only two attempts have been made to take it to court, I know of one case which came from a lawyers office on behalve of a dealer. I don´t know about the other one. To be short on it, it would never ever have gotten of the ground, there was no case to begin with, a waste of time and money and that dealer is still not allowed back in to the dealerroom."
Funny, since I heard from direct source that they didn't proceed with the court, as they were not planning to have their business damaged any more then Abunai/Acon already did, as their stuff was deemed legal in the end. Enough said I guess.

"And that´s the whole point, the organisation will allow you a spot in the dealerroom or they don´t, being a nuisance, rude and or breaking the contract rules diminishes the chances of you getting that spot in the dealerroom or they won´t even invite you anymore."
And that's something also against the law, it's something in the commercial laws.

>>10245843
They still won't allow you back in the dealerroom.

>>10245839
"And yes they can do that, so don´t be an arse in trying to sell that merchandise at the convention. Leave those for your web store or shop. Waving a bundle of banknotes is not going to impress either, the same goes for saying "you can't fill your dealerroom without me", oh yes they can."
Yes they can block/ban a seller, but that doesn't mean they can activily sue the convention for hurting their business, with this block. You guys look it always at a single side, there are more angles to look at how something could be seen.

Anyway, I think we had enough of this, it's pretty clear kicking a commercial business off a convention ground without any hard proof and/or proper law handling, can damage the convention badly, but the kicking off a commercial business can hurt that business just as much.

So how was Abunai?

>>10245845
>Anyway, I think we had enough of this, it's pretty clear kicking a commercial business off a convention ground without any hard proof and/or proper law handling, can damage the convention badly, but the kicking off a commercial business can hurt that business just as much.
So being an arse then it is!

But they still won't allow you back in the dealerroom.

>>10245856
"But they still won't allow you back in the dealerroom."
Seems you like to have the last word, denied.
No, they cannot deny dealers, simply because that violates a law, but hey, if you like violating the law, then go ahead :D

>>10245857
>No, they cannot deny dealers, simply because that violates a law, but hey, if you like violating the law, then go ahead :D
Talking shit or in good Dutch, je lult uit je nek!

>>10245860
"Talking shit or in good Dutch, je lult uit je nek!"
Or you know, you could follow the law, and this 4chan's rules of not using any Dutch. Maybe I don't know, maybe just shut up if you don't know anything else to say, or just remove yourself from the internet, might help too.
Good day and good luck with your life ;)

>>10245846
As a first time attendee, fucking fantastic, but obviously i can't compare it to previous years.

I was hoping for some abunai tea instead I find people sperging about bootleg.

>>10245846
After the disappointment of last year's edition I almost didn't go, but I'm really glad I ended up changing my mind because it was a lot of fun and much more gezellig than last year imo. I also liked the theming they did and the way they changed up the layout of the con. Karaoke was in a decent spot again!

It would be utterly swell if the person making the claim that animecon deciding what's bootleg is against the law, would provide the relevant article, or the jurisprudence coming forth from a court case.

That's the thing the people from Zwolle fail to mention, while being full of hot air. I witnessed the discussion at nishicon between aniworld and fis, and I have heard nothing that can be upheld by articles in the law, or court cases. If I missed something, please educate us unwitting anons.

The fact that you don't sell something as a charmander but as a plush inspired by, but it looks like a charmander, still gives the Pokémon company enough grounds for a claim and civil prosecution.

So yeah, please provide hard evidence, or just shut up and accept.

>>10245908
Also, the linked article states that the item for sale has to have distinct differences from the original product, not that you are allowed to sell imitation playstation controllers. That's a very distinct difference.

>>10245908
> I witnessed the discussion at nishicon between aniworld and fis, and I have heard nothing that can be upheld by articles in the law, or court cases.

That is, most of the discussion came from aniworld, and they didn't say anything that holds ground in a court case. They say "against the law", but fail to mention which law or article of that law, that would be.

This bootleg discussion is fucking stupid, let's talk about great cosplays you saw at Abunai. I saw an (Ernst and) Bobbie cosplay and it was some of the best shit I've seen all weekend.

Saw some great cosplays, including another Willem (but a different guy from last year, I think), a gorgeous Reinhardt, a Snufkin with a beautiful big hat and an awesome Mipha.
I'm not sure if I like the new layout desu. I missed having events in the Brabantzaal and while I liked the artist alley, I was confused to find out that a ton of artists were located in the dealerroom still. What was up with that :/

Abunai did an amazing job with decorating everything with the theme this year, the neon lights in the corridor past the bag room was nice. Was also fun seeing that Chi model next to the computers in one of the hallways.
The group walking around in Supermarket and other store outfits on Sunday was nicely done.

Dont forget the bumblebee that was quite awesome. But he could not walk far because the roof was to low

Hey guys. I had a lot of fun at abunai. The dance comp was amazing. Does anyone know the Instagram of the winners, and especially the girl who won first place? I kinda wanna learn how to dance like that.

>>10246071
She’s bentocosbox or something like that I believe. I really enjoyed the dance compo as well this year! Good choice of winners

Let's keep the positive vibe going, what was one of you guys' favourite thing about this year's edition?

>>10245861
>not knowing how to quote the entire discussion
>Newfag

Welcome to 4 chan.

How about the (euro) cosplay compo and the winners? What did people think?

>>10246121
Well deserved first and second place, third place I would have picked someone else personally but I wasn't judging.

>>10246136
Who would you have chosen?

>>10245846
Abunai beats on saturday was absolutely lit. Will definately get drunk again next year on those wonky hard bass beats.

One of my personal high lights was my visit to the maid cafe. The line wasn't bad at all this year 'round, so my friends and I finally decided to go there. Was happily surprised by how non-cringy it was. Thought it'd be real bad but the atmosphere was super relaxed and our maid was real cute and fun to talk to. Wish I had had that extra coin for a picture though

>>10245957
"This bootleg discussion is fucking stupid, let's talk about great cosplays you saw at Abunai. I saw an (Ernst and) Bobbie cosplay and it was some of the best shit I've seen all weekend."
Well, everybody is shitting at Tomocon for not removing bootleg sellers, when they basically are unable to because of the law, but something like Dutch Comic Con is praised for their dealers... But they have like the most bootleg sellers compared to all conventions, so it's kind of awkward and facepalm worthy when people mention this, you know.

>>10246115
>Welcome to 4 chan.

I quote however I want, welcome me indeed.

Wow, too bad I only see the bootleg discussion now.

Dealerchan is wrong. I know quite a bit about the two cases and they both went something like this:
Dealer gets kicked out. Dealer goes to lawyer.
Lawyer thinks, sure, I'll try to make them regret it, you pay me by the hour.
Con get letter and activates their legal council and all resources.
Long list of counter arguments is being made by lawyer 2, invalidating dealer's lawyers points.
Lawyer 1 gets letter and tells dealer that there is no way he/she can win.

Dealerchan, you can cook up the same invalid points all you want, but it just is not true. The battle you imagine that can be fought, has been fought before. You are trying to invent the wheel again, insisting squared wheels work fine as well.

>>10246229
The case i know was between lychee tea and tomo, and it ended in tomo calling the dutch customs and being told that they can't refuse this dealer a stand.

>>10246141
Not really a lot to pick from when it was either your generic love live shit, that cringy splatoon “dance”, a dead Miku or an attempt at BlackPink.

>>10246229
It's a nice story, but something feels amiss here.
Still, without any real proof and/or case ID, it feels like you're just quoting a fairy-tail ;)
Either way, it's also known that a dealer pushed Tomo to the corner, where the thing you're saying, is turned completely around.
How would you explain that then.
So customs says "you cannot refuse them", but the lawyer says "yes you can refuse them". You do know in the end Customs could decide what happens, right ?
If 2 lawyers want to fight it out in court, that would be more interesting, now it's just 2 lawyers saying this and that.

>>10246334
If you want clarity: CALL THE CUSTOMS! The phone number is free, so what is stopping you?

so the tl;dr i'm catching from this:
Depraved cunt is butthurt over losing an opportunity to peddle bootlegs
Seems about right?

>>10246345
Why the hell do I need to call customs... ?
Did you even read what I said ?

>>10246351
> Depraved cunt is butthurt over losing an opportunity to peddle bootlegs
Maybe less assumptions, as I am not a dealer, I think I already explained this before.

>>10246345
>>10246354
bump. Customs literally has nothing to do with this.
The question is: can any organisation refuse a dealer because they claim the dealer sells bootleg products (fyi: customs are not the authority on what is or is not bootleg).
the answer btw is: yes they can.

Besides, if tomo-chan were right, why are other dutch cons still successfully refusing bootleg dealers?
I'm sure Fabion/famemonster/etc would have been back at animecon years ago if this bs story were true.

Long story short, Tomo is either lying or (in their stupidity) believing in a lie fabricated by bootleg dealers.

To get back on topic: Abunai was nice. The airco really saved the con this year imo. The weather forecasts scared me, but it was no problem whatsoever.

>>10246363
>bump. Customs literally has nothing to do with this.
You got any proof of what you're saying, as customs are all about bootleg issues ?
So yes, they do have everything to do with this, unless you can show me otherwise.
(And they also saying so themselves, so you're now saying they are lying ?)

>customs are not the authority on what is or is not bootleg
Then why does customs exists anyhow, cause they are all about import/export, and selling cheap bootleg articles, is something they deal with.
So I wonder how you came up with the fact Customs have nothing to do with it ?

>Besides, if tomo-chan were right, why are other dutch cons still successfully refusing bootleg dealers?
They are doing that, with the mindset that they think it's legal to do so.
I know for a fact, as one of the staff members said before a long time ago, that what he was doing, wasn't legal at all.
But hey, I can just saying that from hearing directly from them.

>I'm sure Fabion/famemonster/etc would have been back at animecon years ago if this bs story were true.
It's also to a seller to choose if they WISH to be there, and from what I heard, they don't even want to be there anymore, as they hurt their business.

>Long story short, Tomo is either lying or (in their stupidity) believing in a lie fabricated by bootleg dealers.
I think it was already explained Customs has looked at the issue at hand.
Yes, they are legally allowed to decide about if something is bootlegging or not.

>>10246111
Everything, but what stood out were the afterparties & relaxing with ppl. No drama heard this year either. Con itself felt abit meh activitywise but loved the rest

>>10246372
I'm pleasantly surprised by the fact that the only "drama" was three broken windows and an exit sign by some drunk weebs.

>>10246368
I start to think that you are one of those banned dealers and recruiting people to witchunting those evil Conventions.

They were sadly still using that shitty beamer on the mainstage which made the videos being played on them(Opening, Ending, amvs) look worse. Not sure if this beamer is part of the Koningshof or if it's Abunai's.
>>10246363
>The airco really saved the con this year imo.
Yeah I totally agree, the few time I stepped outside to walk to my car weren't really pleasant because of the heat.

>>10246390
I'm not, but then again, maybe I am.
Maybe I am the devils advocate, or maybe I'm the ghost that haunts your dreams.

Who could say...

>>10246111
The absolute butthurt of the Disney fans when Russian hardbass won

>>10246111
The gezelligheids-level was high this year which led me to just goof around instead of really doing things. But that was fine, there were some fun activities on the schedule, but just not that much.

Abunai was awesome. Really. Best Abunai ever.
And I may be a bit biased, I've been coming to Abunai since their very first time in Enschede. And truth to be told, I am somewhat biased as I've always been a more Animecon-kind-of-guy (I've been to Animecon since the last couple of times they've been at Koningshof).

As >>10246363 mentioned, the airco saved the con.
But visitors also seemed to be more anticipating the warm weather (in regards to drinking water and dressing more in accordance to the forecasts, or as my girlfriend noted: people had their tits and asses out.. reminded us of the last Chibicon)

Also, the theming was top notch. They've truly outdone themselves again. If there's anything that screams: you've left the muggle-normie world, and entered weeb walhalla, this was it. Animecon could learn a thing or two from that.

Overall atmosphere was great. Not much drama.

(Part 1/2)

(Part 2/2)

Now for the cons (pun intended):
The food sucked. I'm not patient enough to wait on some food delivery guy. So I tried the food court, again.
- Pizzas sucked again. These are not pizzas. I don't see how they have such a line waiting in front of them, but the pizzas were horrible. The second time Abunai was in Koningshof, they had these handmade pizzas from a wood fired oven, what happened to those?
- "Ramen" and "Curry". No Koningshof, you're ruining it. When Animecon was still in Theatrehotel Almelo, they organised a training day for all the THA cooks, teaching them several basic Japanese dishes and things like that. The cooks loved it, as they found inspiration to use what they've learned on a regular basis. I presume most of you, visiting Nishicon have had a taste of the basis that had been laid in those days. Abunai should offer the same to Koningshof, if that's possible. Heck, I would even love to organise such a training. (I've been a professional cook, spending some time in Japan as well) And you can use my restaurant as well, it's not too far away from Veldhoven. It's either that, or my restaurant will be applying for a spot in the food court, next year.
- "Takoyaki" I've seen them at Animecon, steered clear from them. Had a taste this time, and it was undercooked. How the hell can you undercook flat takoyaki?! That's playing with people's lives in this weather. I've heard that Animecon has a guy on their staff tasked with one task: check all the food stands multiple times a day, see if ingredients remain chilled, see if the products sold are sufficiently cooked, see if the people working are not using a piece of cloth to clean their pans that had been lying on the floor, things like that. There're not much food stands at Abunai, so I guess Abunai could have a gopher for that.

(Oh, one more thing)

- "Cocktails" yes, I was in that long line in the sweaty basement for those famed cocktails. No, I didn't have my hopes up too high, as I usually go to Abunai with a "don't get your hopes up, it's Abunai" attitude. That way it can only get better. Sadly, the cocktailbar wasn't one of those. Let's just say that these were decent cocktails for people who never drink cocktails. Not for blokes like me, who was twitching when I saw my ordered cocktails being made.

Speaking of cocktails, too bad that the African bartender at the Abdijbar quit his job. He was the only one who knew how to make an "Abunai".

>>10246414
The pizza's were bad indeed, but I liked the >ramen
But I know it wasn't like real ramen at all. Ramen aside, they should've added a salad bar or something healthy as well, but maybe it already was there and I just didn't notice.
The food court inside was very warm and the few times a breeze picked up it felt very nice so a big fan or something would've been nice as well.

Germanfag here. Abunai was awesome, I've always heard rumors that Dutchies go all out when they throw a party, so I had high expectations of going to a Dutch con.

Now, you've ruined me forever. I can never go to a German con again.

But. What is this?

>>10246423
A song about trains came on so people started imitating a steam train

>>10246414
I was in the line for takoyaki but when I actually got a look at that flat undercooked shit I noped out and went for okonomiyaki instead. Someone really needs to replace that guy.

>>10246418
>the African bartender at the Abdijbar quit his job
Seriously? I was wondering where he was all weekend, I loved that guy. If you got to know him a bit he'd make excellent off-the-menu cocktails at a discount.

a con like animecon or abunai isn't a public space. I think they can fill it up in any way they'd like and kick out whoever as long as the house rules comply to the law. **

**after fair warnings.

>>10246414

So send them an email saying that you'd like to offer your experience and restaurant?

>>10246411

do you have fotos of the venue?

>>10246391
>Not sure if this beamer is part of the Koningshof or if it's Abunai's.
Or part of the rented A/V company?

>>10246452
It's hosted at a public space.
The problem is not if they can, but since you're dealing with businesses, it doesn't matter if it's public space or not, if the action you take is not lawful, then you cannot hide behind a house rule or "contract" that could be voided.
Sellers are protected by the law for a reason, to prevent business being harmed by wrongful actions.

>>10246391
>>10246460
They had a frikkin' LED screen this year at main stage. There were plenty of shitty beamers at Abunai, but main stage wasn't one of them.

>>10246474
>law
Still curious what is law is you speak of. Point me to that law or article please.

Also, this whole bootleg deal is a simple "freedom of contract" case. Any organisation has the freedom to choose which party they do or do not do business with. Claiming that one party can force the other into a contract is a very ballsy claim. Again: under what article?

>>10246392
Nah this can only be two people. The idiot that ownes Aniworld4U or their retard of a friend the creapy pokemon guy.
Either way stop sobbing no one wants your fakes.
You and every other bootleg dealer have 2 choices fuck off from reputable cons or get your shit together.
If the law is on your side then sue animecon see how far that gets you.
And the fact tomo folded is zero proof, they were spineless to begin with.

>>10246479
Basically the location is the property of the organization for the weekend. And their house rules are leading as long as they don't clash with certain laws.
Btw in the law you have no given right to sell anything.
So basically they can put almost anything in their house rules and get away with it.
Animecon has a rule that states that any staff member can kick you oit for any reason without explanation, no exceptions are made for dealers.
So basically "you looked at me the wrong way" is a totally ligit reason to kick you out without giving you your money back.

>>10246479
You want sources ?
Go look on overheid.nl or douane.nl and you find a ton of information about.
If you have any information about the claims that you can deny a business from your convention, I will be very interested, but make sure it's a lawful site, and not some 3rd party organisation that claims it's lawful.

>>10246487
Give it up, you won´t be allowed back in to the dealerroom.

>>10246487
nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contractvrijheid

Seriously, this is ALL the information you need.
If you disagree, feel free to give me a direct source, and not something general like overheid.nl because those sites have too much information, I'm not going to read an entire website.

>>10246498
>nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contractvrijheid
.. you are seriously using a WikiPedia page that is literally not lawful information as... lawful information ?
Are you seriously kidding me here now ?

>If you disagree, feel free to give me a direct source
In fact, I'm already talking to a lawyer right now, to make it clear ones and for all, and requesting the proper laws for it, since the ones I found on belastingdienst and douane are coming over a little broad, so I will let you and all know here, what the real deal is.
This also makes it for me clear if I was correct with the found information + a lawyer has more knowledge about the law then me and you all here have.

>this thread

>>10246503
There is no single article for "contractsvrijheid", both for positive and for negative contractsvrijheid, so I can't quote a law for you.
But there is some jurisprudence on the matter:
https://www.vandoorne.com/globalassets/documenten--bijlagen/publicaties/2017/rcr-201715-contractsvrijheid.-huisartsenzorg..pdf

I know jurisprudence is hard to read if youre not a jurist like me, but it basically says that contractsvrijheid is a very wide right, and can only be limited in some situations.
Labor law and tenancy law have some good examples of how contractsvrijheid can be limited, but those are completely different situations.

>>10246498
>nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contractvrijheid
So where are the "Bronnen, noten en/of referenties"?
The sources, notes and/or references of that page? Citation needed! You nee a legal judicial source, wikipedia won't do!

Also, as I read that page than it is perfectly oke for organisations like Abu and Acon to setup rules that prohibits the sale of certain items, when you try to sell those certain items you are breaching that contract you signed and out you go! Your explanation of the legality of your items is pointless, your threats of legal action are pointless, whining here is pointless.

Take it to court, show us and the judge the sources that say you are right or shut up. And even then the organisation won't allow you back in to the dealerroom, that is their freedom of contract.

If Animecon say we allow only the sales of yellow pluche Smurfs then you sell those yellow Smurfs and not the blue ones. It is not that hard.

>>10246510
All I know about contractvrijheid, is that it must also abide the law.
If you add there "we may remove you if you sell bootlegs" could contradict a existing law that affirms that it isn't allowed.
But for now, I just asked this a lawyers firm, so I'll wait from them what they figured out, since it's this 4chan's board word again mine (and another anon that reacted), so I'm pretty interested what the outcome will be.
And yes, I agree with you, juridical papers are really hard to read/understand, hence why a law-firm could come in handy with explaining how it really is.
Thanks for the jurisprudence though.

>>10246516
>If Animecon say we allow only the sales of yellow pluche Smurfs then you sell those yellow Smurfs and not the blue ones. It is not that hard.

This is exactly where things goes wrong, but not to worry, a law-firm has been contacted, see who is wrong and who is right. I'm pretty interesting to see if a convention like Tomocon or DCC could kick out bootleg sellers, since I myself find it dubious too that Tomo isn't allowed to kick them out, so they explained.

Damn, I'm seeing so many things being said wrong here, that I felt the need to reply in an effort to stop this he-said-she-said nonsense and people using the false dichotomy. I have been dealing with stuff like this in the past, and will try to cut it up in nice, easy to digest pieces.

First off: bootleg selling is illegal. Dutch law article 337 states that "He who intentionally defrauds brands, or packaging, or imports, sells, delivers, stocks or gives away goods, or goods resembling the original product (that's our Charmander-example in >>10245378 ), can be punished up to one year in prison, or a fine of the fifth category." If this person is doing the above with commercial intent (like aforementioned dealers are doing), the inprisonment can be up to four years. (Please note, due to the rules on this board, I had to translate the law text and condense it somewhat, so please read the full article 337 on wetboekonline, for example.)

Back to counterfeit Charmander. It does not matter if a counterfeit Charmander is made in single numbers, or at 500 a piece: it's still a counterfeit Charmander. Fans of the Pokémon franchise will recognise the plush as Charmander for what he looks like, regardless if there's a label that says "inspired by". The Pokémon Company will have none of it, and it has to go, even if you're a crocheting old granny without a business license. As soon as you're trying to sell it, you are on the wrong side of the law, and TPC's lawyer team will make minced meat of you if their C&D letter does nothing to impress you. Fortunately, most IP-holders aren't total asses, and realise that enforcing a hand-made single plush would do more harm than good, but there were quite a few independent artists at Anime Expo, last month, who were forced to remove their fan-art because they infringed on the copyright of Nintendo, for example. Also, a Chinese factory churning a couple of hundred of these out, cannot be considered a small independent fan-artist.

>>10246525
By the way: as a private peron, it's legal to posess bootleg for personal use, as long as you don't try to sell it. Even giving it away is not allowed: you have to destroy it if you want to get rid of it. Importing bootleg isn't legal, so it's kind of like weed: you are allowed to sell it if you're the proprietor of a coffee shop, but you may only have 5 plants at a time (gedoogbeleid). Legal to have it, but since it's illeagal to make it, the problem solves itself.

Secondly: if said goods are already in the European Union, (Dutch) Customs does not have anything to say anymore. As soon as the goods are imported, Customs' jurisdition ends, since those goods are deemed community. This does not make those goods legal, mind you, it's just out of Customs' field, and not their problem anymore.

Customs also has nothing to say about whether some dealer should be allowed on a convention or not. I don't know how you lot got there, what the question was, or how it was asked, but it's quite simple: an event (convention, comic con, fair or festival) is totally free to limit access to their terrain to certain individuals if they think that's in their best interest. If a dealer doesn't comply to the rules of the event, or is just acting like an ass, the event is perfectly within their rights to say no. They just have to state their reasons beforehand (ex. you are selling goods that do not comply to Dutch Law), and they can't exclude on discriminatory grounds (ex. you're Chinese, so we don't want you).
So, if an event's contractual demands are reasonable and within the law, they are free to enforce whatever the hell they like. If a seller wants to change that, legal action is required, and every judge worth its salt will point at existing law and say: "sorry, but you haven't got a leg to stand on." His best bet would then be to start a political party and change the law, but that's a snowball's chance in hell if I ever saw one.

>>10246526
Third: an event is liable in case a dealer is taken to court for selling bootleg items. The event provided selling space to this dealer, so they are liable and can be sued by the holder of the property. There was a case in Poland, I believe, where brands like Tommy Hilfiger and Louis Vuitton successfully sued a bootleg seller AND the provider of the selling space. That provider had a responsibility of checking whether the business being done on their grounds, was legal or not. They failed to do so, and thus were equally liable for damages as the dealer itself was. European Court case C-494/15, look it up.
If the provider of the selling space would have checked on said dealer and forbade him to continue to sell the counterfeit goods, and they would be able to prove that they did, then they would be in the clear.

This is where bootleg checkers and advisors come into play. They posess a certain level of knowledge, most often procured through experience, which allows them to discern bootleg from real merch. In most cases, it's quite simple. If there's no original product (either because it's simple disallowed by the IP-holder, or just because they don't want to make such a product), it's fake. Something not being there offically, does not make a 3rd party product legal. In case of the swords, it's how the sword looks. A samurai sword can be pretty generic, so it's hard to discern whether it's a weapon from a certain anime/game/manga, or just a sword. However, most of the swords from (for example) Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts are very distinct. Everyone who has been into contact with the franchises, will recognise a Keyblade, or a Gunsword, to name a few. Trying to sell those is an infringement of Square Enix' copyright (and thus article 337 of Dutch Law), unless you do the legal mambo with them and are able to obtain a license.

>>10246527
If a product sports the image or likeness of a character from a popular franchise, and the product was not made under license, then that product is not official, and may be deemed bootleg. You're basically trying to make money off of something people recognise as something they like, so you're not the company with the idea, or a license to pursue the idea, then you're in the wrong.

As far as I know, a bootleg checker does not have to have to work directly with the IP holders. If an event wants them to, it's obviously perfecly within the event's right to demand that, but if an event is cool with the level of expertise of said bootleg checker (whether it's through what he/she explains, or just trusting them), there is nothing stopping them. As long as the general terms and conditions explain that there's a ban on selling bootleg, enforcing this is pretty much up to the event's decision itself on how to handle it, but if they do not handle it at all, they are liable when The Pokémon Company decides to take them to court as well while TPC throws the book at the dealer trying to sell counterfeit Charmander on their grounds.

>>10246528
If an event is bullied into allowing a seller back on their grounds by a letter from a lawyer threatening with a lawsuit, the event is liable for any and all infringements the seller does on their terrain, essentially making the event the accomplice of the seller's practices. There are new laws coming into effect, due to the jurisdiction coming from the European Court Case mentioned earlier, laws that would get an event in more trouble than the odd chance of a bullying merchant trying to weasel his way back into said event. The right thing to do for the event is to send a letter back, stating that they believe the seller is in the wrong. If the event is not up to that battle, they might decide to bow to the letter, but their liability would be out of this world.

Also: when you close off the convention grounds (be it by gates, people at the door, or otherwise limiting access to the event), organisations are perfectly able, and within their rights, to keep a dealer out.
So, yeah, sorry for the wall of text, but all this yelling about "The Law!" without solid evidence of said law (ad ignorantum), made me ache something terrible. Kind of felt like the vax/anti-vax discussions, as I can't seem to find juridic evidence that an event should allow any dealer into their premisis, but I can find numerous reasons on why they shouldn't. In the odd case that they should, it's probably something coming from terms and conditions pushed upon the event as a result of a stipend or subsidy from taxpayer's money, but I have a feeling that's not the case here.

>>10246525
I completely agree with your first off, but it's missing something.
You seem to expect it's already clear something is a "bootleg", as where this is still a assumption this is a "counterfeit", because the organisation says it is. Also, the bootleg seller, should have a record recorded about the "court case", before you could actually remove the seller from your convention. That was the whole original point, you cannot judge something "illegal" without any pre-determined things, that are 100% assured to be correct. Staff from a convention is not eligible to decide if something is deemed illegal with that law you pointed down.

Some dealers will just accept the request to just remove the item from their "store" so to speak, but it would be troublesome if the staff has deemed most of it illegal, then again it still needs to be verified if what the dealer is selling, is indeed counterfeit, and again, the staff are not eligible to determine this by law. What Tomocon does, is bring the customs in for checking up, but they also say that removing the "counterfeit" seller, is not legally allowed, even when they determine the content is legal or illegal.

DCC is filled with bootleg sellers, but they are not allowed to remove them, so I wonder how Animecon or Abunai is able to do this, without violating the law, hence my question now to the law-firm I send a letter to.

Even though, thanks for some more information about the dealings.

Jesus christ this never ends

>>10246536
Well, that's what you get is you're trying to scapegoat conventions.
If people keep nagging about something like bootlegs on conventions as a reason to hate a convention, then that's their fault I would say.
That was the reason I was questioning the actions of those conventions who does remove dealers.
It's also quiet funny how the dealers are praised of one, which has the most bootleg sellers, compared to a other, who doesn't, but is unable to remove them, compared to another that removes them, which is questionable if it's even allowed, and could be troublesome in court.

Would be interesting to see what the result is, cause if it's true what
>>10246525
is saying, that would be very good news for all those other conventions in my opinion.
So something good could come out of this as well.

>>10246395
I'm proud of our comrades.

>>10246531
I'm quite convinced that Tomo, DCC, and any other possible con with bootleg sellers is most definitely able to kick out bootleg sellers, but they simply don't want to or don't care.
As long as the dealer is paying big bucks for their booth, the convention seems to be fine with it. They want that dealer back again next year, so they're not complaining about bootleg.
Of course this mostly goes for commercial events. They don't give a fuck about anything except money.

But if I'm wrong, please enlighten me (but don't come with any tomo stories, because I don't believe anything from them anymore).

Imo the following amv should have won the advance amv compo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SlJr0Pa1Oo it was hands down by far the best one. But alas retards always think "funny" videos are the best.

>>10246544
Who won the amv compo?

>>10246522
>This is exactly where things goes wrong, but not to worry, a law-firm has been contacted, see who is wrong and who is right. I'm pretty interesting to see if a convention like Tomocon or DCC could kick out bootleg sellers, since I myself find it dubious too that Tomo isn't allowed to kick them out, so they explained.
Imagine the fear at the Animecon staff. I am trying to imagine ...

>>10246528
One addition to this: bootleg checkers do not need to work directly with IP holders, as long as they don't try to impound the goods.
If the goods are taken off the dealer's tables for the rest of the event, but still in his/her posession, there's not much the dealer can do about it.

If Stichting Brein or React wants to impound counterfeit goods, they better have their backs by the IP holders too. If a convention wants to do that, without working with IP holders, they would be in a heap of trouble if the dealer wants to sue, but a simple request of stopping the sale of the goods for the remainder of the event is the right way to do it.

That way, the dealer is informed that some of his wares are shady, the event's liability is in the clear, and the visitors do not run the risk of buying counterfeit.

>>10246543
>I'm quite convinced that Tomo, DCC, and any other possible con with bootleg sellers is most definitely able to kick out bootleg sellers, but they simply don't want to or don't care.
I know from first hand that Tomo was being confronted and threatened with a law-suit, and after they discussed with the customs and a lawyer, they we're told they could not remove the dealer, unless there was a court-case that showed they lost a court case on bootleg selling.
So convinced as you may, I'm pretty sure you're missing some details there.
As for DCC, I wouldn't know if they are purposely keeping those dealers there or not.

>As long as the dealer is paying big bucks for their booth, the convention seems to be fine with it. They want that dealer back again next year, so they're not complaining about bootleg.
That's what you could say towards all conventions, but some conventions have a other goal, and that's fine.
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree bootleg sellers should be kicked off the convention grounds, but I noticed a lot of people don't want to know about these issues, or stick their fingers in their ears and go "lalalala".
I'm pretty sure Tomo tried to boot them off, but they couldn't, that's the thing. You seem to say they could if they wanted to, but you don't know what happened the last time they tried...

>But if I'm wrong, please enlighten me (but don't come with any tomo stories, because I don't believe anything from them anymore).
As I said, I asked a law-firm to explain what the law really says about these kind of things.
Cause it's really contradicting that a self-made contract with a organisation is deemed legal, and above the law.
If the lawyers firm indeed agrees that you are perfectly allowed to remove any dealer from your convention (for whatever reason, bootleg selling is one, so could be for anything else), would make things clear that they are indeed only in for the money, and not to protect their customers, which was also the goal.

>>10244998
this is 100% bullshit, a con is entirely free who to permit and who not to permit to access and sell on their grounds during the convention. any decent convention has a seller contract stipulating those terms.

>>10246547
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B2as3OgUy0 was the overall and comedy winner of the advanced amv compo on saturday that the public could vote on.
Can't seem to find the winner of the normal amv compo on sunday but that one was a deserved win.

>>10246554
I think I already stated as well, that a "contract" doesn't automatically substitute for being legal. A lot of examples where self-made contracts are void because of violating certain laws.
But then again, I could be wrong, but nobody has come with legal grounds this is legally grounded to remove a business from a event. Removing individuals, sure, but removing a business is a different story.

>>10246423
Dokomi has a better rave, though

>>10246559
But was the Abunai Beats event advertised as a "rave"? Otherwise that's a really awkward comparison.

>>10246474
A private hotel is not a public space. They are free to kick out whomever they want. It matters very much.

>>10246561
I'm just talking about the party aspect of things, Dokomi goes harder in my opinion.

>>10246558
it's you who needs to prove your case that businesses (or even, individuals representing a business) are somehow different. preferably by citation of relevant laws.

>>10246562
Hah, nice try, but no, they are considered public places, with certain rules.
A hotel may request a person to leave, but it has limited reasons, and "selling bootleg" or "the staff of a event request" is not considered lawful by that.

>>10246561
Deshima is in the Netherlands still the better dutch rave event. Abunai did okay this year, but still pity Deshima wasn't there.

>>10246576
You can go to Viencon?

>>10246576
I only know Deshima from Abunai and Animecon so no idea how the rest of their shows are but the show they had at Animecon this year was just an insult to the visitors. They were pretty good back in 2010-2012 but they just kept getting worse and worse over the course of years. They slightly improved 3 years ago during Abunai because Beats was doing better and took their saturday spot.

>>10246573
Cancelling the contract between the organisation(Convention) and the dealer is perfectly legal as long as it's reasonable. I don't know the details of the contract they set up but they probable have a clause somewhere in there about bootleg.

>>10246581
But this year they had TeddyLoid with them.. or was TeddyLoid bad too?

>>10246581
Yah, but that's not the whole point.
Legally you cannot just kick someone out without a good reason.
You cannot just kick out a business from your convention grounds, unless grounded reasons are given.
Stating they sell bootlegs, without any 100% confirmation that they are (since only a judge/customs may decide eventually if something is bootleg), and kick them with that off the convention grounds, could be potentially hazardous.
But again, this has been a long discussion already, waiting for a law-firm to come back on this topic in regards what is and what isn't allowed, since multiple people have said other things, or tracked back on their words.

>>10246583
TeddyLoid was amazing in my opinion

>>10246586
A decent dealer contract would state who would be the person/organisation/whatever to decide if a product is or is not bootleg, and that if that person does decide if the dealer sells bootlegs, that the organisation is allowed to terminate the contract and kick them out.
Dealer signs the contract, so dealer agrees to those terms. Problem solved.

>>10246595
>A decent dealer contract would state who would be the person/organisation/whatever to decide if a product is or is not bootleg, and that if that person does decide if the dealer sells bootlegs, that the organisation is allowed to terminate the contract and kick them out.
>Dealer signs the contract, so dealer agrees to those terms. Problem solved.
And that is what everyone keeps telling to Anime4u. Can we knock it of now, Anime4u has no leg to stand on, and even if he had, he is not welcome at certain conventions in the Netherlands because they have legal right to refuse him!

The new location(old foodcourt) for the Karaoke was really nice it was an improvement over the old one.
>>10246583
In my opinion TeddyLoid wasn't good at all, you, hack the speakerheadz were better than anything that followed and they weren't amazing. So Deshima themselves didn't even really play anything.

>>10246586
If there is a clear indication of someone selling counterfeits/bootlegs/ripoffs like the Charmander plush discussed in the conversations above there is no need for a judge/customs to decide. Also rules that are not in conflict with the law are perfectly valid rules to set. The same with not going into an agreement with a dealer for them to have a stand is legal as long as it's not breaking any laws.

>>10246604
>>10246595

The thing is, everyone aren't lawyers, a judge or customs who could decide on this.
If someone is in my house, I cannot just state them to leave, unless I involve the police for example.
If you, for example, attack that person (the one who owns the house for example), could be sued for using violence.
Anyway, where I go with this, is that it's still funny how you say "everyone", because I could say anything I like as well, but it doesn't mean that what I say, is legal either.
If we "knock it off", calling out conventions for bootlegging will keep going, which is rather sad.

>>10246611
TeddyLoid was indeed bad.

I would rather see this anon show us the information from the lawfirm he mentioned, so we can finally rest this issue.
Would also be nice to use to bitch slap tomo/dcc/any convention also, so I see a positive thing about this though.

>>10246573
By definition, during the convention the hotel is not a public space. The convention organisation rented it for that period, which is why they are allowed to restrict people from entering the convention area without badges or tickets. If it was a public space, they couldn't legally do that (obstruction of freedom).

Is it because you guys don't like the music Deshima play, or its it more on a personal level? Because in my opinion I think they are better now than back in 2010-2012. Now they play way less Hardcore and play more music styles. Between now and back then, they understand the crowd way better now than before.

Calling them bad because it doesn't suit your tastes, is the same as calling bacon horrible if you don't like it.

I for one really hope that Abunai will ask them back next year.

>pol

>>10246632
I can't dance to that slow ass k-pop kusic

>>10246629
To add to this, if 'no valid badge' is a valid reason to kick someone out, they can simply revoke the dealer's badges. There's no law governing that, and suddenly there's a valid reason for giving them to boot.

>>10246629
Yes, but those are not businesses we talk about.
Those are individuals attending the convention as "customers".
There is a big difference between those.

>>10246581
I thought Deshima was pretty good this year at Animecon, especially with their upped VJing game. no way Beats is better lmao, they don't even transition their tracks nor hold a mood.

>>10246638
Dealers are customers to the convention too, they're not special in that regard. They pay the convention money for a special badge for N staff members and a spot in the dealer room.

>>10246632
>I for one really hope that Abunai will ask them back next year.
Thought that not inviting Deshima for Abunai was a case of budget, they did invite two musical acts from Japan.

>>10246641
They are considered a business.
Individuals who pay for a spot in the dealerroom, and have no KvK or registered business, is more questionable, but they are dealt with differently then normal convention goers.

>>10246632
Nothing personal against Deshima here, for me it's mostly that they in my opinion switched to less danceable music, so in one song you are nicely dancing on the music and then they switch to a totally different song that just kills the flow. You could clearly see it when people started creating those circles with people just standing and watching people break dance on non break dance music because it was just not danceable enough.
It also didn't help that a lot of the songs have a promising start building up to the climax and then suddenly it doesn't follow up and you get something different.

>>10245957
That Bobbie cosplayer is apparently the son of the actor of Bobbie

Post limit yadda yadda. New thread for all your post-Abunai talk and feedback >>10246671

>>10246586
Dealerchan,

European law basically says the following:
Market halls, or in this case an event's dealerroom, are considered an intermediary, and the ruling follows the one also used for internetsites like ebay:

ECLI:EU:C:2016:528
1. The third sentence of Article 11 of Directive 2004/48/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the enforcement of intellectual property rights must be interpreted as meaning that the tenant of market halls who sublets the various sales points situated in those halls to market-traders, some of whom use their pitches in order to sell counterfeit branded products, falls within the concept of ‘an intermediary whose services are being used by a third party to infringe an intellectual property right’ within the meaning of that provision.
2. The third sentence of Article 11 of Directive 2004/48 must be interpreted as meaning that the conditions for an injunction within the meaning of that provision against an intermediary who provides a service relating to the letting of sales points in market halls are identical to those for injunctions which may be addressed to intermediaries in an online marketplace, set out by the Court in the judgment of 12 July 2011 in L’Oréal and Others (C‑324/09, EU:C:2011:474).

That practically boils down to the following: A convention is required to have an active anti bootleg policy, which will not infringe on regular trade and is within reason. Specifically, it is not expected to have a continuous check going on, for cost reasons. And if they don't have an active policy, they can be sued by IP holders as well.

>>10246685
Now this is some very interesting information.
Thanks for finding this, even though I've been a hard ass, so to speak.

>>10246685
I checked the law, but there is a big difference:

Translated from Dutch:
>Although the CJEU's ruling on Tommy Hilfiger vs Delta Center dates from 7 July 2016, we would like to briefly quote it here, because we believe that this should be taken into account in the new year. The ruling deals with the possibilities of addressing service providers with clients who infringe intellectual property rights. Those options seem wider than expected.
In this case, the tenant of a market hall in Prague (the Delta Center) was approached and held responsible by a number of trademark holders, including Tommy Hilfiger, Burberry, and Lacoste, for subletting to exhibitors who sold counterfeit goods from those brands.

Also, the law doesn't say anything about removing the infringing party.
Someone else was also judged ( See https://www.recht.nl/rechtspraak/?ecli=ECLI:EU:C:2016:528 ) and was all about discontinuing the selling of the articles mentioned, but nowhere is spoken about REMOVING the dealer from their grounds.

>>10246694
Or they can make you remove everything. What is the difference.

>>10246694
>ECLI:EU:C:2016:528

Really everything has to be written for you, just so you can have the slightest hope to live in that dream state:
The case you are describing, actually had this as an effect.

It also refers to EU:C:2011:474
This case made ebay remove and ban sellers from their platform, and responsible for the sales of counterfeit goods.

This is also in line with EU Directive 2014/48

(24)
Depending on the particular case, and if justified by the circumstances, the measures, procedures and remedies to be provided for should include prohibitory measures aimed at preventing further infringements of intellectual property rights. Moreover there should be corrective measures, where appropriate at the expense of the infringer, such as the recall and definitive removal from the channels of commerce, or destruction, of the infringing goods and, in appropriate cases, of the materials and implements principally used in the creation or manufacture of these goods. These corrective measures should take account of the interests of third parties including, in particular, consumers and private parties acting in good faith. These corrective measures should take account of the interests of third parties including, in particular, consumers and private parties acting in good faith.

It states right there:
"such as the recall and definitive removal from the channels of commerce"

I damn well hope this is clear enough

>>10246743
>EU:C:2011:474
Almost, but no, the first one talks about a physical dealer, and now you're showing a electronical dealer, so no, those are not the same + there is a difference between electronical selling things, and physically selling things.

>>10246756

You got to be kidding me.

2. The third sentence of Article 11 of Directive 2004/48 must be interpreted as meaning that the conditions for an injunction within the meaning of that provision against an intermediary who provides a service relating to the letting of sales points in market halls are identical to those for injunctions which may be addressed to intermediaries in an online marketplace, set out by the Court in the judgment of 12 July 2011 in L’Oréal and Others (C‑324/09, EU:C:2011:474).

are identical
ARE IDENTICAL

FFS, which of these 12 letters makes it hard for you to understand. It is written right there, and you still try to make something else out of it.

>>10246774
Nice !
Reading through this, and looks promising, sorry for being such a dick, but this information is really interesting.

>>10246774
Well, sadly, I just asked a English dude how I should interpret this, and from his information, the way it's saying, is that only communication and request for removal of the products is allowed (as has been said that is a reasonable request by conventions), but banning or removing a business online or physically, is not falling under the pretense of that sentence.
Hence why I'm still going to be skeptical, as I said, it's how you interpret it.
Injuction is not a action that a hosting provider of like let's say eBay or a physical intermediary, is allowed, it's just the "requests".
However, I agree that it doesn't matter with this point if it's online or physical, however, a injuction/request is not the same as a "action" or activity.
Either though, it's a nice read, but from my understanding online, and the czech websites I found about that organisation, no such action as "removal" has happened. So I wonder, what is up with it.

>>10246774
To double inform you that it's true they have not been removed:

>After the preliminary ruling of the CJEU, the Czech Supreme Court classified DELTA CENTER as an intermediary due to that fact that it provides services directly leading to the infringement of IP rights. However, the concerns expressed by the Czech Supreme Court do remain relevant because it is necessary to draw a line somewhere and carefully define what constitutes an intermediary. In this case, the High Court in Prague ordered DELTA CENTER to publish an apology in a national newspaper and send an apology letter to the plaintiffs. The court also ruled that the list of sanctions that may be imposed on an intermediary is shorter than the list of sanctions that may be imposed on a direct infringer. The case has been referred to the Constitutional Court of the Czech Republic to consider various constitutional aspects and is currently pending. Although it is not yet over, the case will set a precedent for future rulings.

>Since the ruling was issued, the city of Prague has been taking steps to clear the DELTA CENTER marketplace of counterfeits and has set strict deadlines for terminating the lease agreements with the offending shops. This is a part of the Prague city government’s long-term strategy to close down the main hubs of counterfeit trade. More specific regulations and relevant court decisions may be expected in the Czech Republic in the near future.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=5c97c6e4-f8fb-4e47-b398-a994de02d9b9

>>10246783
>is that only communication and request for removal of the products is allowed (as has been said that is a reasonable request by conventions), but banning or removing a business online or physically, is not falling under the pretense of that sentence.
And that is exactly what happens, you will be asked to remove the offending items, if you do that than you can stay in the dealerroom.

Most of the time there is more than just a single warning, but finally you get to hear: There is the door and don't expect an invitation any time soon, no trading insult will only make it worse, and said organisation is pretty much in their rights to do so.

>>10246805
>Most of the time there is more than just a single warning, but finally you get to hear: There is the door and don't expect an invitation any time soon, no trading insult will only make it worse, and said organisation is pretty much in their rights to do so.

I would totally agree, which is a good thing to do, but lawfully they are in the wrong by removing the offending trader.
Since I've been asking information about where Animecon or Abunai is getting their details from that it's legal to kick out a dealer when they think it's bootleg, I have not seen any evidence, may it be law information, and/or any existing court cases, that would stave their point that they are eligible to remove a dealer.
So as of right now still, I'm definitely sure it's not allowed to remove a dealer because of the fact they think it's bootleg.
I'm also still waiting for a law-firm to come back to me regarding the issue, to see what their point of view is when and if you're allowed to remove a dealer from your event/convention.

>>10246805
And just to make this clear, I'm completely pro-banning bootleg dealers, they should gtfo.
Problem I'm having, is that the way it's currently being dealt with, doesn't sound legit, and from searching online, and talking to various people, and some people who seem to had some information that it felt legit, but in the end it was wrong interpreted, I just hope the law-firm I send a request in regards how to look at this issue, that they come back with "yes, they are eligible to remove the dealer from their event", but for now I'm skeptical about it.

>>10246808
>I would totally agree, which is a good thing to do, but lawfully they are in the wrong by removing the offending trader.
They remove an offending trader who fails to stop his own criminal activities. You can't expect an organisation to participate in those criminal activities by allowing you to keep selling those items because you claim that the combined knowledge of FiS is not valid in determining if said item is a bootleg.

And in agreement with other anons in this thread, yes you are an idiot. There is no way you are going to win this.

>>10246822
>They remove an offending trader who fails to stop his own criminal activities
Sigh, it's not allowed man, by law...

>You can't expect an organisation to participate in those criminal activities by allowing you to keep selling those items because you claim that the combined knowledge of FiS is not valid in determining if said item is a bootleg.
I'm not even going to bother explaining that FiS is just another non-regulated organisation that has absolutely nothing to say about this issue, just like CvTA, who in fact already responded that they are indeed not eligible to decide about this matter, so the person who said that CvTA agreed with them, is completely bullshit.

>And in agreement with other anons in this thread, yes you are an idiot. There is no way you are going to win this.
I think the same about the people who have a hard head in grasping that all their points you and others have been giving, is completely untrue, and trying to make something legal (like kicking out dealers) that is still not legal at all, as nothing of evidence has been given that it is legal, I find it funny how dumb people here are. Although, apart from the fact you guys are the ones being idiots, I applaud for the hard work to make up evidence, well done trying.

>>10246812
So, Ebay cannot ban sellers because of IP issues? Damn, you better start sueing them. Or Etsy for that matter And before you say it is different: "are identical"

And remember the sentence, only written twice now: "Moreover there should be corrective measures, where appropriate at the expense of the infringer, such as the recall and definitive removal from the channels of commerce..."

Now, instead of having some mysterious english random dude interprete law for you (You could just have opened the dutch version on this ruling, since apparently it is still hard for you)

Here in Dutch:
https://www.dirkzwager.nl/kennis/artikelen/marktkramers-en-namaak-bestrijding/
Last sentence, losely translated: according to me, the current lease should be terminated immediately as soon as the intermediary is informed by the IP owner. Of course, you will say that you first need to have t IP owner saying it, but we already established that this is not needed, as part of an active policy.

I am not sure how to make it more clear in two languages. I can translate it in Sindarin for you, but that will take a few days as I havent used it for a long time.

>>10246837
Dude, just stop, stop embarressing yourself any further then you all already did.
I've tried to be open minded about the facts you all have been given to make the kicking out dealers sound good and dandy, but in the end you all just failed in delivering this.
I don't mind if you guys think removing dealers is your own good right to do so, but the law in the end will stab you in the face. It's just a matter of time.

>>10246839
"Kunnen houders van intellectuele eigendomsrechten de verhuurders van een markthal dwingen om namaak, aangeboden door marktkramers, te stoppen? Ja, zo oordeelt het Europese Hof van Justitie."

Can holders of intellectual property rights force the owners of a market hall to stop counterfeiting offered by market vendors? Yes, the European Court of Justice judges.

And then you state that only the IP-holders can do that, and that is plain bullshit, nothing more and nothing less. The owner or in our cases an organisation can ask you to stop selling those items, failing or refusal is a breach of contract with consequences for you.

You can fight this decision in court but the chances of winning are very slim. And given your handling of the whole situation I would say, no chance at all.

>>10246868
Sigh, you really don't get it...

First of, you clearly didn't get the "IP owners", which isn't the convention staff, they have no say in this.

Secondly, the IP holder needs to force the STAFF of the event to stop the offering of the goods, which again, is going to be touch as most rights holders are not located in the Netherlands.

So you see, all the things that have so far been thrown into this 4chan board, is either false or wrongly interpreted.

Just stating facts here.

>>10246839
Embarrassing?

I quote you litteral text from actual cases, and you come up with "contacting a firm", actual examples, a lawyer specialized in IP's interpretation and current approaches in similar situations.

To summarize.
1) EU law makes no distinction between online and market sales in regards to IP infringing materials. ECLI:EU:C:2016:528
2) Therefore a market being a intemediar, is expected to preventative actions as ruled by ECLI:EU:C:2011:474
3) This results in that the moment an event knows there are illigal activities going on in the sales, they will have to take preventative actions. Practically what events do is removal or the articles in question first, and in case of a second offense, removal of the dealer. This in accordance with Directive 2004/48/EC.

What is embarrasing, is stating all kind of claims, but never come with any actual law to support those claims.

>>10246877
From that website: This case makes it easier to address organisations for counterfeiting. This does not only apply to trademark infringement, but also to copyright infringement or model infringement.

And then you expect that the organisation does nothing because they are not allowed to in your explanation because they don't have that right as for not being the IP-holders. It has been explained many before that they are allowed to take action and prevent the sales of bootlegs.

But feel free to take it court, explain that organisations don't have rights to judge your items. Either put it up or shut up, and you will still not be allowed back into the dealerroom.

>>10246891
Could you please just shut up.
All the cases you have come up with, are either after a judge has decided what to do, and have no impact against a dealer that has not been subjected to a court case, so all your stuff you have been sprouting, has no ground.

Please, do us all a favor and quit trying so hard.

>>10246893
>It has been explained many before that they are allowed to take action and prevent the sales of bootlegs.
Explained with what, cause so far all the examples that have been given, are false or interpreted wrong.
Sorry, but you guys need to stop coming up with law examples, that have no ground whatsoever, as long as there have not been any court case against that dealer, it's ILLEGAL to remove the so called dealer.
There are no but's anymore, all the examples you guys have come up with is just bad and not useful in this case.

>>10246903
I think you are trying to shut me down with rethorics. That is kinda cute. In the whole "do us all a favor part", it is actually you who are the only one trying to make law unlawful.

The cases I bring are answers coming out of questions around copyright infringements and intermediaries. It comes out of EU directives. It comes from lawyers who deal with these topics.

Yet, you keep insisting there is no legal ground.

I'll make it very simpel: An intermediary can be sued for IP infringement, unless he acts upon it when he gets information it is being done by the dealer.
You say: Well, Who gives a fuck, the intermediary can't stop it at all.

How likely do you think that is the case?

My two cents, Dealer-chan is asking from the nice people of Abunai and Animecon to please look the other way while I am selling my cheap knock offs.

>>10246414
I actually like Koningshof's pizzas. Not sure what's the problem. It's pretty daring of them to actually call what they serve 'ramen' though.

And Osaka Cooking... The guy accepted coins with the same hand which he used to bake the takoyaki. Not to mention the girl who was preparing bubble tea with a cigarette in her hands. Totally not done.

>>10246925
Husssh ( don't say that out loud. Or we might think that (s)he using THE law to cover the fact that (s)he wanna make bank by selling 'inspired by' items for the same price while (s)he could go for the official thing. Or we might think: Poor kids who were trying hard to save money through the year and only brough the cheap 'inspired item' while he thought he brought the official thing. Dealerchan is happy with his income by misleading these poor kids. But hey, THE law says he could, so these kids are ignorant and should know better.
So better not say that oud loud or he sue us for his income loss ;) )

>>10246916
It seems you are not grasping the whole discussion.
This is not about if a "bootleg" dealer can be sued.
This is about if a convention organisation staff could kick off a dealer that has not been sentenced yet by the court.
You are giving a shit ton of already dealth with in court, where as that wasn't the whole goal of this discussion.

It's cute how you are still not understanding the whole discussion, but it's fine.
Keep on throwing court cases, it's still not useful.

Cheers.

Nobody talks about sueing the dealer, so don't put words in my mouth.

We are talking about the responsibilities, liabilities, rights and duties of an Intermediary.

What I have written is both the actual ruling on these matters and links to lawyers interpretations. I can now also add, that this is virtually the same way as described in European Intermediary Liability in Copyright. A Tort-Based Analysis by C.J. Angelopoulos.

Now, I have requested a few times now to come with your legal backing to prove your point. So far you have provided none what so ever.

It would be wise to recluse yourself until you have that. Because by now it has become a silly shout fest where I give a combination of actual law, rulings and expert interpretations, and you just keep repeating that it's not allowed without basis. If you are so sure, I am sure you can find verification for this

>>10247162
Sigh, here we go...

>EU law makes no distinction between online and market sales in regards to IP infringing materials. ECLI:EU:C:2016:528
This is only in acceptance with a ruling, and since a active dealer with no rulings on his tail, this doesn't apply...

>Therefore a market being a intemediar, is expected to preventative actions as ruled by ECLI:EU:C:2011:474
Yes, read it careful will you, it's removing the goods and breaking the contact with the sellers of the counterfeit products, not the dealer itself...

>Practically what events do is removal or the articles in question first, and in case of a second offense, removal of the dealer.
That court case doesn't state ANYTHING about removing a dealer. So good luck with showing me where it says so.

>>10247162
>If you are so sure, I am sure you can find verification for this

It's the other way around, if there is no such a court case where a dealer is removed from the premises, then there is hardly something to verify, other that it has never been trialed before, not to mention that lawyers/customs also mention that you are not eligible to remove a dealer for selling bootlegs because it's the staff their opinion.
As long as there has not been any court case where a dealer was allowed to be removed from a convention on grounds of selling bootlegs, there is no legal basis for it.

It's not hard. If a convention determines a dealer being disruptive to the general flow of business (and might be arbitrary, but generally stated in the dealer contract, which is signed by the dealer (and unless it's at gunpoint, the dealer agrees with the terms, and thus needs to adhere to the terms stated).

There are only a few cases a contract can be nulliefied by law, otherwise the signee is expected to be of sound judgement when signing. While it might help, it's not required to have a court case saying the dealer can be removed. That's all between the convention and the dealer.
Me thinks Dealerchan has been watching a bit too much American television.

>>10247177
>As long as there has not been any court case where a dealer was allowed to be removed from a convention on grounds of selling bootlegs, there is no legal basis for it.
Just to make clear on this part.
A example court case where a dealer is removed, is for individual sellers, and will not be applicable to be used broad, unless the court case explanation tells so.
Each court case against a dealer is individually handled, as far as was explained to me.
So in case you want to have a dealer removed, you either need some evidence that that exact dealer has been dealt with in a court of law before, or there has been a broad law/court case that explains a convention/event organizer is eligible to remove the dealer that they think is in violation (if in case no court case).

>>10247194
>It's not hard. If a convention determines a dealer being disruptive to the general flow of business (and might be arbitrary, but generally stated in the dealer contract, which is signed by the dealer (and unless it's at gunpoint, the dealer agrees with the terms, and thus needs to adhere to the terms stated).
Correct, but adding removal of a dealer in case the staff determined it's violating their rules, it's still not lawfully allowed to remove that dealer, even if you put it in a contract. The law protects the dealer from such activity.

>Me thinks Dealerchan has been watching a bit too much American television.

Me thinks you need to read up back where a few court case examples have been handed, where no such a thing of removal of a dealer has been done.

>>10247194
>There are only a few cases a contract can be nulliefied by law, otherwise the signee is expected to be of sound judgement when signing. While it might help, it's not required to have a court case saying the dealer can be removed. That's all between the convention and the dealer.
>Me thinks Dealerchan has been watching a bit too much American television.
Just to give you a example.
When you rent a house to somebody, you are not allowed to just remove the people living there, you have to go through a court case, even if you have evidence they are in violation.
So no, it's not just "American" shows, it's basically a lawful thing in the Netherlands.
Please abstain from saying stuff you have no hard proof for.

Speaking to a few lawyers online, and it comes to this.
A convention with a market, falls under the law of a "market".
A market is not legally allowed to disallow or remove dealers from their event, but they have often these "we keep the right to remove you in case you violate a house-rule", but I asked a few of them what law gives them that right to do so.
In the end, it's just a "scare" tactic, as they will always sign in a police/customs to check up on the wares being sold, and when a fast court decides it's indeed deemed illegal, the market is allowed to deny the dealer from coming to the market a other time again.
So, in the end, a convention may NOT remove a dealer based on their own assumptions or rhetoric of what is or is not bootleg. Only a judge eventually may decide if something is illegal or not, and with this in hand, a market place (or in this case, a convention) may deny the dealer from coming again.

To update on
>>10247248

I think why most people think the convention is allowed to remove dealers, is not that they are removed by the dealers, some dealers just don't care about the hassle to stick their feet in the ground, and to let it come to a judgement, and voluntarily leave the premises, without any court case happening.
This though, still doesn't allow a convention to deny the next event the dealer.