/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

>>10546462
Again, completely missing the point. You're still making this about Tyler when it's really about WF and her cadre acting like they speak for the entire Black community. I said the timing was off, but Tyler's vid wouldn't exist at all if people en masse had stood up to WF and said enough is enough.

>>10546436

Pearliecute is historically a shit stirrer in the UK comms and a lot of people have distanced themselves from her because she cares more about ass kissing efamous lolitas than actually being a decent person.

>>10546471
Broken clock right twice a day I guess then? Her post here seems pretty valid and a reasonable take.

>>10546451
>other pocs who speak out will be gaslighted into feeling guilty for not being angry enough
>Stop. Letting. This. Spoiled. Brat. Speak. For. You.

Fucking pick one, bitch. It's not other poc's job to control crazy twitter hoes if we aren't the ones doing this. Black people aren't responsible for the actions of all other black people so don't act like we're a hiveminded monolith.

>>10546475
Maybe, I feel weird because any time something happens in the community like this she hops straight on the "Well I'M black and I think it's fine!" thing as though her opinion matters. I guess it's a bit OT but she just reeks of efame hunger

>>10546478
I get you; I like her coords and she's cute but I'm not a fan of her content, channel, or thirst. She isn't the only black person in the jfashion community who has expressed the same sentiment though; the majority of us feel similarly. Tyler isn't wrong but should have handled her video a bit better and called out specific people who were problematic in a fair and balanced way, not be nonspecific in a way that will make everyone think black lolitas are on a white Canadian lesbian leftist witch hunt.

>>10546477
this, basically. it's just unfortunate that wf is the one who's so fucking vocal.

>>10546477
SHE speaks like you're a hiveminded monolith. But go ahead and be spoken for, since you don't want to clean house.

>>10546483
So you're going to take the word of someone who we all know is a crazy lying bitch and just listen to her and accept what she says as truth?

Just say you want an excuse to be mad at black lolitas and leave.

It's funny to see these people demanding people to feature / interact with lolitas from different backgrounds but, when it comes to them, I don't see any interaction or features asides from the same old PoC people from North America. There are hundreds of Latinas making content everyday about this fashion and their struggles or whatever but these girls never get interaction from outside their communities. I mean, they want diversity, but only a specific type of diversity that suits them.

>>10546489
I mean to be fair a lot of latina lolitas are those cringey American born Mexican weebs and ita Brazillians because "muh exchange rate"

>>10546479
Yeah, it really boils my beans that Tyler could have made something good of this video, but it's just giving any racists in the comm something to cling to if they're ever called out on actual shitty behaviour.

>>10546486
white girls are just mad because they can't call her out without being called racist.

>>10546489
While demanding people use their platforms to feature other accounts is excessive, as far as people only sharing the same poc from north America, it probably has to do with the fact that it can be hard to find other poc because of algorithms, low follower counts, etc.

I can't think of any poc lolita and jfashion wearers who are super popular except the same 2 or maybe 3 who share each other's images because they are irl friends, and the ones who are in my state and I got recommended them because mutual follows from comm members who I know irl as well.

>>10546496
That's fair to be upset by and wrong to get called racist for standing up against a bully, but that's no excuse to take it out on the black people who agree with them and make them feel guilty for other people's bad behavior. It's just a smaller scale version of what WF does at that point.

>>10546489
>I don't see any interaction or features asides from the same old PoC people from North America

I think it's actually NA issue specifically, because people from other countries has nothing to do with americans. From this point using ethnic stuff might be seen less of an appropriative by outside country residents compared to american POC because further were not bullied for being different to their surrounding.

>>10546498
Anon is probably talking about the stories being massively shared rn about the need of new faces for this fashion (which was prob made in response to lwln video)

>>10546499
well that's what i mean. calling on us to reprimand her like we're her mom, it's not our job. it does suck, being black doesn't mean you don't get to be criticized.

>>10546504
I think we're on the same page here lol, definitely not in disagreement with your points.

>>10546465
When you have an IG acct called blacklolitacommunity reposting WF stories, it does sound like WF speaks for you

>>10546506
Who runs that account? You think every black lolita agrees with this account and votes on everything they share? This person took it upon themselves to do that, and every individual black lolita I have seen online has been chill about it and felt like Lor was pushed way too hard and didn't think this was a big deal.

Stop pretending to be stupid. I know you're mad you can't call out WF without being called a racist nazi and that sucks, but it's not the rest of our fault when a minority of black people are problematic.

>>10546506

Apparently we don't speak for ourselves either because black lolitas across multiple platforms publicly and on anon for the last two weeks telling you we disagree isn't enough.

>>10546505
yes definitely.
unfortunately some people clearly agree with wf or she wouldn't have any traction. even the IG account >>10546506 is talking about is proof. and most of them are probably white girls, they're the ones who allow people like wf to act like that when they eat it up, like being black makes her opinions to be fact.

>>10546508
>I know you're mad you can't call out WF without being called a racist nazi and that sucks
Don't worry, posting to btb is always an option

Shoutout to this person for saying something and WF trying to cover her ass

>>10546486
>Just say you want an excuse to be mad at Black lolitas and leave
Just say you agree with WF and leave

>>10546523

It's clear you are either being intentionally obtuse or are really fucking stupid.

>>10546483
"Clean house"? What the fuck are we supposed to do? Like other anon said, we aren't a unified hivemind group operating under one mutual understanding, or even one CULTURE. I'm so fucking tired of people thinking that black people are responsible for the actions of other black people or that black people are even one unified community to begin with. I have so little in common with black people from other parts of the world. I don't even keep track of these rabid people on twitter. Stop referring to "the black community" like its one community to begin with. Notice how no one uses terms like "The asian community." When a chinese person does something wrong, do you expect japanese people to leap to kick them out of "the asian community"? You only do it to black people.

>>10546506
I've never even heard of this stupid account and that's the worst part. People keep saying "why don't black lolitas call out X Y and Z person?!" And black lolitas go "huh? Who the fuck are you talking about?" Because- surprise surprise- this is not one unified community and black people don't all know what every other black person is saying.

>>10546539

Meanwhile, white people on IG are already talking in their stories as though WF's opinion is THE opinion of the Black community. So much for her not speaking for you.

>Stop referring to "the black community" like it's one community to begin with
>There's literally an IG account called the Black Lolita Community that's reposting WF's stories

>>10546508
pretty sure A*ani does. and not pretending to be stupid - literally stating the obvious. when an account like that shares that opinion, it's very likely they support that opinion. it's making you all look bad, and it does make it look on the surface that this is the prevailing opinion of Black lolitas. maybe you should go back and re read my post?

>>10546510
the loudest people get the most traction. until Black lolitas start publicly addressing the problems of WF and co, the only Black lolitas speaking up are supporting her stance. white lolitas can't because they're told to stay out of it and not speak over the Black lolita community so...

my point in >>10546506, until other Black lolitas call out WF's behavior, shit isn't going to change for the better. there's things white lolitas need to address, but if people think WF is speaking for all of you, that's your problem

>>10546539
Black people sure act like white people are a hivemind and need to constantly apologize for racism.
Black lolitas are always talking about how they need more visibility in the community, but as soon as a black lolita - who has been in the community for at least a decade - kicks up a fuss that everybody is talking about suddenly you don't pay attention to the black lolita community and there are too many other black people in it to follow?
I can't believe this shit.

>>10546555
>but if people think WF is speaking for all of you, that's your problem
no. it's the problem of the people who agree with her. people aren't agreeing with her because there are no other black lolitas, it's their choice. it's not our job to shut her up., she'd shut up if no one agreed with her.

>>10546471
Wait what?? I really like her channel, what did she do?

>>10546562
this thread is clearly just shit slinging against black lolitas.

>>10546557
>Black people sure act like white people are a hivemind and need to constantly apologize for racism.

Ah, so now we get to what you're actually trying to talk about/mad about.


>Black lolitas are always talking about how they need more visibility in the community, but as soon as a black lolita - who has been in the community for at least a decade - kicks up a fuss that everybody is talking about suddenly you don't pay attention to the black lolita community and there are too many other black people in it to follow?

Every black lolita does not speak for every other black lolita. Clearly those of us on cgl actively disagreeing are not the ones whining about visibility. Please stop acting like a retard and expecting those of us who don't use twitter/don't follow woke twitter shit have some obligation to start just to make you feel better/less afraid of a mob of people we have nothing to do with.

This is just your excuse to lash out because you can't against the people who are the actual bullies/wrong ones. Complain about WF and her squad, THEY'RE the problem. You are literally saying the people who are not the problem are the problem because we aren't as vocal as the loud ones whose problematic behavior is in part how loud vocal they are about this nonsense. Make it make sense.

It really is American hours, innit

>>10546562
Nayrt but while pearliecute is cute to me, I find her accent grating and her mannerisms cringey, but never heard of anything making her someone drama oriented or bad or mean or whatever.

>>10546567
>>10546569
So, if a white lolita acts up, all white lolitas are trash if they don't "speak out" against these transgressions and publicly distance themselves and denounce said yt trash. But if a Black lolita acts up, it's not the Black community's problem to correct her or distance themselves.
>Rules for thee but not for me
But I guess expecting Black lolitas to take the same level of responsibility and ownership of one's own as is expected of white lolitas is racist.
>in b4 no one asked white lolitas to denounce Tyler or Lor publicly
Lor denounced herself, which makes her a better person than the rest of us. Tyler, on the other hand.... it's coming.

I love how one half black girl who is more white and privileged than anything, one poc girl who isn't even black, and one black person who is Lor's personal friend Lor chooses to interact with all being shitty and conjuring up some fake outrage amongst a minority of the community who are probably lolita at heart larpers suddenly means all of us black people are at fault and are trying to force y'all to apologize for slavery when literally no one said that and we're trying to agree with you but you just want to pull a PM and treat the people who actually are on your side like shit because you know the ones against you won't be receptive to your shitty gaslighting and poor treatment. Get over yourself.

>>10546579
we aren't asking you to say shit about what your girls do. we can speak for ourselves and so can you. blame your twitter friends for licking finchy's ass so hard.

>>10546567
I just read that and was a little shocked but reading this thread through, you're probably right.

>>10546579
>So, if a white lolita acts up, all white lolitas are trash if they don't "speak out" against these transgressions and publicly distance themselves and denounce said yt trash. But if a Black lolita acts up, it's not the Black community's problem to correct her or distance themselves.

I have never said or seen someone say this. Try stretching first if you plan to keep reaching this hard.

>>10546569
>Clearly those of us on cgl actively disagreeing are not the ones whining about visibility. Please stop acting like a retard and expecting those of us who don't use twitter/don't follow woke twitter shit have some obligation to start just to make you feel better/less afraid of a mob of people we have nothing to do with.


This.

I think the issue that's of real concern is not how "the black community" hasn't publicly denounced wf, it's the staggering amount of people in Lor's comment sections telling her that "THIS is what accountability looks like!" and patting her on the back for twisting herself into several knots. I'd wager the majority of lolitas of every race agree that Lor did nothing worthy of an apology and wf and co bullied her into like 5 separate apology posts, but that doesn't mean that we can't be pressured into believing that accidentally liking a post on instagram actually does require the level of groveling that Lor did. When the options are "publicly say that what Lor did was not racist and then be labeled racist yourself" and "publicly agree with wf and then be labeled a woke black ally" it's obvious what option people are going to choose. That's the insidious nature of sjw cancel culture: the extremely loud and vocal minority can and will verbally abuse people and will happily label everyone who disagrees with them a racist because up until now, society at large has given them the power to do exactly that in order to silence people. All in the name of equality.

It's not the black lolita community's problem, this is every modern day person's problem.

>>10546579
>So, if a white lolita acts up, all white lolitas are trash if they don't "speak out" against these transgressions and publicly distance themselves and denounce said yt trash. But if a Black lolita acts up, it's not the Black community's problem to correct her or distance themselves.

You.

>>10546580
>>10546585

Read this.

>>10546580
Maybe it's because we've seen this same shit play out outside the lolita community for the past year? You're acting like 2020 never happened and this is coming from nowhere when there seems to be a big issue with treating certain races like a monolith when it benefits them and then dropping the act when it doesn't.

>>10546587
This.

>>10546584
We'll see what happens in a few days.

>>10546587
Thank you, and you're right
I'm sick of this stuff playing out everywhere and I think everyone needs to clean their own house at this point. It's a problem with women, lgbt, and pretty much every other minority group.
It might sound like I have it out for black people but that's just been the issue for the past year. If this blew up over the lgbt community or indigenous people or was a feminist issue I would say the same things.

>>10546587
If it makes you feel better, most of Lor's comments and story shares when I read them all across her socials (minus twitter, I don't have twitter) from black and white and other races were pretty much "damn girl I thought you said the n word or something you really didn't have to do all that over this but I appreciate that you care". Either the comments section changed since the drama happened or Tyler cherry picked things to support her point (she has been known to not research super thoroughly sometimes)

Most of us are not the ones saying this shit adn the ones who are are only after clout/SJW approval, aren't even lolitas, or don't really matter because of how small of a minority it is.

>>10546592
I'm glad you're not being racist or homophobic in how you're blaming innocent people for the actions of a few, but you're still doing something stupid.

Everyone in a minority or "oppressed" group is not obligated to behave exactly how you want so you personally can feel better about your preconceived notion of the opinions of that group. If you just looked at all of us as individuals who have their own takes instead of assuming we all think the bad things, EVEN WHEN WE ARE TELLING YOU WE DISAGREE WITH THE BAD PEOPLE, that's your own damn fault.

That's like dismissing any poc, woman, or lgbt person as an SJW twitter mob follower even after they say they don't like that shit just because they are associated with that group. It's the same thing as the black people calling all white people racist because Trump exists, even when an individual white person (or multiple) shows they aren't through their actions, it's wrong both ways.

>>10546587
even most leftists hate this wokescold shit. I'm so tired of twitter encouraging these idiots to harass people and act like they're humanitarians

>>10546599
If you aren't vocal about your stance as an individual it looks like it never was a thing. Twitter people are overly vocal, so people basically make their conclusions based on what info they receive.

>>10546587
I think you forgot that just saying nothing and not being so weak to change your beliefs due to peer pressure is still an option, which is what most black lolitas are doing but we get accused of being enabling for it.

>>10546602
How is multiple black lolitas on social media and here on cgl not being vocal about our stance?

You just want to be mad at something, maybe pick the people actually engaging in the abusive behavior and encouraging it, not the ones denouncing it repeatedly on anon and on sm.

>>10546602
This is the unfortunate truth. Black people/women/lgbt people who are just living their life, unbothered by twitter drama, aren't the voices you hear. Because they aren't obsessed with proving themselves and convincing others of their value. The loud minority of "woke" people who are actually insecure and trying to convince themselves of their own value are the ones raging and mobbing. If you're a black person just living your life, being a normal human being, having normal opinions, you don't see this shit to begin with. It doesn't pop up on your feed. Those people aren't your group. They don't engage with you. They don't matter to you. Then suddenly people are talking about "the black community cleaning house to rid itself of SJW twitter mobs" etc etc. And it feels like it came out of nowhere even though they've always been there. Because ACTUAL activists aren't on twitter getting mad at people over instagram posts and demanding video apologies that mean nothing. ACTUAL activists are out doing ACTUAL shit.

>>10546602
So, people are aware of the vocal minority being an inaccurate representation of various social groups and instead of acknowledging that and just judging people individually, they'd rather choose to see us as part of a mob/assume what we think despite being aware that the mob is not representative of the rest of us unless we become an opposing mob/wave in order to appease their own feelings?

>>10546604
Why on earth should I believe "multiple black lolitas" that only post anonymously on cgl? 90% chance these multiple black lolitas are white trans people.

I wonder if finchy went out to the blm protests. hm.

>>10546603
Ayrt, for sure there is the third option of staying out of it and staying firm in your beliefs. That's the option I chose too. However, I do recognize that me keeping my mouth shut and just casually laughing at the situation from afar has done nothing to combat wf's attempt to control the narrative here. Tyler's video, while perhaps not done in the most careful way, has done more than any other dissenting voice in getting the community to critically think about wf's woke brigade and I appreciate it for that fact alone.

I'm also not suggesting that everyone *has* to come out and "stand up for what they believe in" on this issue. I don't like when moral crusaders imply that everyone has an obligation to take action on social issues.

>>10546604
Why on earth would I believe "multiple black lolitas" that only post anonymously on /cgl/?
Odds are they are not black, not multiple people, and not lolitas.

>>10546610
I guess you don't follow any black lolitas cause all the ones I follow posted about this on their stories weeks ago when it happened saying they appreciate Lor's sensitivity to the issue but she didn't even do anything wrong. And tons of black people in the comments said they felt the mob was wrong and Lor literally just clocked a pic by mistake, no harm, no foul. A screenshot was posted of pearliecute in the last thread about how she disagreed wit the mob though also didn't like Tyler's video style in this situation. A ton of other girls who look like they are black based on their yt profile pics also said Lor never really did anything wrong on both her video and Tyler's, and other poc have said/done the same all across social media and comments sections on these posts.

You are just not following any black people or choosing not to read or see these comments, and your assumption that no black lolitas are on cgl when the draw thread regularly has black lolita self posts requesting art is stupid.

You're making excuses to try to invalidate things that prove you wrong because you wanna complain about "the big bad black monolith of meanies" and pretend like none of us are acknowledging we think differently.

It's really yall's white SJW asses asspatting pm for her callouts and yelling at other poc not to talk over black people specifically (as if we own the right to be upset about Trump when he's pissed off every possible group out there) who let this shit happen. Don't pin this on black people who are just living their lives outside of all this fucking drama for ignoring it or not being as much of an angry mob with our dissenting opinion, as if that would actually fix or help anything.

I see a lot people saying this is a small group of black lolitas making all this an issue but half my feed is DC area black girls and their white orbiters doing a lot of name calling while screaming about "accountability" and "legitimate harm" and basically chomping at the bit for a piece of the drama. Is this a local issue? It's kinda sickening.

The fall of Tyler begins

>>10546620
All the black lolitas I follow in TX (and elsewhere) have, like myself, ignored it and said nothing or thanked Lor for the apology but said she really didn't need to to begin with. Mostly ignored it and said nothing. Some efamous jfashion wearers in NYC area have also just kind of said nothing about the incident at all last I checked. Many of us like Tyler said would like lolita among other things to be an escape from exhausting race issues and don't even acknowledge drama. You just don't hear from us because we don't want to talk about this shit.

I don't know the location of every black lolita I follow though.

>>10546617
See
>>10546619
since you wanted to delete your last post saying the exact same shit for whatever reason

>>10546621

this is why "cancelling" has gotten out of fucking control. what was originally started as a way to productively criticize large figures has become a pitchfork mob that no one is allowed to disagree with, let alone try to be reasonable and have a sane discussion

>>10546620
Pretty much, yeah.

>>10546621
Damn her own personal cheerleading squad disowns her

>>10546628
back when the lor thing went down one of the group mods was foaming at the mouth demanding that lor apologize but apparently tyler nuked their post

>>10546629
I thought Tyler had nothing to do with how that group is run.

>>10546630
i thought so too, idrk. I was only told by someone else in the group, and I could be remembering wrong. it's just conjecture, not saying it as a fact. but i said it in case someone else here saw and could confirm. I've only personally witnessed the mod in question being very intense about the whole DDZ thing even before shit about her came to light, like saying people who disagreed with publically calling out people based on suspicion alone should be kicked from the group for being fash simps

Lor commented on tyler's video

>>10546621
I was going to join the group since I love drama, but I didn't as I was too lazy to dm the admins, glad I didn't now if it's full of sjws

>>10546632
Fuck, I didn't have a horse in this race but seeing Lor actually respond to the video and voice her disapproval is a surprise. This isn't a good look for Tyler, and as they are/were friends I feel like Tyler might have really dug her own grave here.
I sort of feel for Lor in this particular case, even if she is a bit of an idiot. She made an honest mistake, caved to pressure to do an OTT apology, then just as everyone had more or less forgotten about it, Tyler dug it up against her wishes for that sweet ad money and clicks.

Tyler didn't have to make a 40+ min video about this. None of this needed to happen. I know people keep trying to loop the blame back on WF, but Tyler is a grown woman who made the choice to get involved in something that was none of her business, and it wasn't her place to stick her nose in.

>>10546632
I feel sorry for their friendship. Hope it survives this whole thing.

>>10546633
I feel for them both in a way. You're right in that it was bad optically and also stirred the pot more in the end. At the same time, if it were my friend and I could see everything happening to them, and how hurt they were behind the scenes, I would feel protective and upset, and I would probably want to say something. I guess it just sucks all around, cause she didn't deserve to just sit there and take a beating but speaking up about it doesn't help her either. Can't win

>>10546632
Nah Lor. That type of kindness is weakness and your influence paired with giving in to shit demands sets precedence for them to do it again and again.

>>10546622
>>10546627
Glad to know this isn’t as widespread as my feed would suggest, but it sucks to confirm I live in an epicenter of crazy. At least I know who to try to avoid.

>>10546631
>>10546629
I used to be apart of the group and good Lord their mods have such a power trip. Ma’am you moderate a salt group calm tf down you ain’t that special

>>10546634
I can't see it happening, and to be honest, it might be for the best. Tyler is obsessed with digging up the absolute worst in the community and broadcasting it for the world to see, which makes the whole community look like a bunch of sissy-coddling itas. It was funny the first few videos, but there's such an uncomfortable air of negativity about her all the time, especially in the last year or two, and desu it doesn't really matter if she's in character or not.

Tyler will do this to her again if she's left unchecked, I'd bet on it. I know Lor is ~soft and sensitive~, but even something with a thick skin would get pissed off with this kind of shit eventually.

>>10546620
I think it's a local issue. It's quiet on my end.

>>10546638
>apart of the group

>>10546641
I don't care about community representation to normies that much. I don't even like the idea that vision of lolitas should be curated, it sounds somewhat narcissistic, as if normies are expected to give a two fucks about freaky dressed crowd. Watching these videos about various cases of harassment was pretty saddening though. Gladly, I kinda felt she's shedding her persona off lately doing more positive things like Frock Talk or Man VS Kawaii. I wish she would stick with these more.

>>10546644
I don't think it's "curated" so much as "not digging up shit all the time", but I understand what you mean. I also preferred the newer series she started outside of LWLN, I especially liked Frock Talk and thought the videos were very well made and much more fun. If she dropped LWLN completely and only did those kinds of videos I'd still be interested.

So although we're still waiting for an official statement that already takes over 2 hours to write, I guess this group is distancing due to Tylers video. Guess we're no longer going to be able to tag a funny sentence due to a video. Wonder how long until a new tag groups comes up with this name.

Ngl this situation is major cringe. The fact Lor had to make an apology video in the first place is ridiculous. She apologized on social media etc. The fact that then, people start digging up past stuff and cancelling her over doing the harlem shake and squatting is laughable.
Like how bored are these unemployed people. Do you REALLY have that little to do in your life that you have to spend hours digging up old irrelevant shit to make yourself feel superior?
Though, I agree that Tyler's video was unnecessary as the dust literally only just settled.

>>10546636
No one is forcing people to apologize. They could choose to ignore it and nothing will happen except some shitty people call them racist. Unless you are efamous it doesn't even matter. Lor is an adult and calling her weak for making what she sees as the nicer choice (even if we universally agree the apology was unnecessary) is just shitty. Some people would rather just not upset people and do their best to avoid it and make amends, even if it isn't "deserved" or whatever because it keeps us at peace with ourselves. Lor seemed to be approaching it from that perspective here.

>>10546649
funny since a few weeks earlier they posted
>First, our name. This group was handed down to our modmin team and we have not changed the name. We are neither implicitly linked to Tyler nor do we necessarily represent, condone or agree with anything Tyler chooses to respond to or report on. The name has been kept for comedic effect and holds no deeper meaning.

>>10546651
She’s weak and needs to grow a backbone

>>10546655
Wait, so did the group not start as Tyler's fanclub or did it only just recently get handed off? I don't pay attention to lolita fb groups usually

I think Tyler's video needed to be made by someone black desu it's the only way the mob will listen. I'm floored at how many people on my Facebook feed are up in arms at Tyler.

>>10546661
The group name was made for fun once as when drama breaks out, many people talk about Tyler covering it/it appearing on LWLN afaik. I didn't veen know the mods had changed until they said so, I don't check mods on tag groups that closely.

Hence I can only guess this is going to make more drama out of nothing.

>>10546665
I mean she was right about Lor not needing to apologize, but she also basically/literally said "none of your feelings are valid, Lor said not to do this but I am anyway (for the second time), hurrdurr more angry newscaster insults you're a baby".

She should have spent more time writing in a way that people would be more receptive to and then people would have been more inclined to listen, even if some people woudl still not change their minds. She was too busy writing verbose shitty jokes and stirring shit to do that though.

Tyler's ex ED really shows in this video. Half her insults almost veer back to talking about someone being fat or eating junk food lol.

Today I've joined some other fashion community, but it was rather normie one. It was like a time capsule to 2009-2012 comm era. People actually talk fashion, congratulate others on their purchases, give advice. No politics and other stuff, it's just chill, even though obviously there's a low of women. What's their secred compared to lolitas? Is SJW drama a price for keeping it alternative?

>>10546671
funny after the virtue signalling she did regarding fatties with her whole essay on fat=poverty.
She's an annoying wicked witch looking ass with a (white) savior complex and the most basic ass and boring coords

>>10546669
This. I can enjoy her salt but when it comes to something that everyone is taking seriously, especially when it personally affects you too, you need to distance yourself from any performance or persona and actually be sincere.

>>10546677
the secret is they don't have a 4chan board

I used to really like LWLN but Tyler is getting more and more excusing/one sided (about popular people/topics etc) and just saying the political correct stuff but with a "I'm saying it in your face so I'm so mean and direct" attitude while in reality she's just saying what some people wanna hear.

Wish she could go back to the way she did 2 years back or so. I mean, she always said what many think anyways, but it felt less excusing/playing political correct and overall just more fun?

>>10546686
Seriously. A whole video about how fat people are valid lolitas and that being fat hating is also racist because lots of black women are fatter due to more poverty among black people (nvm the fact that she thinks that the fat ones of us are the ones into lolita lol most black lolitas I know are short and hw proportionate like me, or thin, or only plus sized bc they're taller), and then she is like "your angry twitter fingers are covered in cheeto dust you baby" and "go back to the basement you crawled out of and eat more ding dongs stupid" lol.

Like I'm not mad I just find it so hypocritical that her wokeness is just as surface level and performative as others. She really didn't care that badly about helping Lor but just wanted to use her as an excuse to make a big deal about this for clout. Just like her series on how hard black lolitas have it was for clout and her 'fatshaming is racist bullshit' videos were also for clout.

This wasn't to protect Lor or for the good of the community, it was to line her own pockets with spicy dramu and stir up a bunch of mess for attention and then she'll victimize herself when people start getting pissed and act like she didn't bring it all back up.

She doesn't deserve an outrage mob for agreeing with the majority of the community that Lor shouldn't have been bullied over a like, but she does deserve whatever opinions people develop of her for being an awful disrespectful friend to Lor, making Lor's problem about herself, and literally doing what she called "microwaving cold tea". Ffs Tyler just go back to yelling at your boyfriend in your closet, we all like you better that way.

Times like this, I'm grateful for being a lonelita and not involving myself with the online community. What a fucking fiasco

>>10546691
>Ffs Tyler just go back to yelling at your boyfriend in your closet, we all like you better that way.
This unironically. Quit trying so hard and just stick to showing pretty dresses.

>>10546691
These days you get to be performative before people point you out for not doing that

uh.. who tf is WF?

>>10546671
That one ding dong comment really stuck with you, eh fatty chan

>>10546702
wonderfinch/purestmaiden/cimone

>>10546705
She made a couple of others as people mentioned. It's been said already but it's not all that mean or whatever, just hilariously hypocritical since the last big vids she made before her protecc Lor shit were all pro-fatty and whatnot and hella woke as well, so this just undermines her facade a bit. As someone who used to have an ED I get it. When your goal in life is to just be small and nothing or hating how much space you take up, the worst thing someone else can be is fat so it's the first insult you can come up with cause it's what would be the most hurtful for you to hear. Her ex ED brain prolly still thinks that way subconsciously

>>10546710
Specifically what other comments?

>>10546713

Nayrt but the cheeto dust one was one I remembered, someone upthread mentioned her talking about ding dongs, maybe some others idk. I only watched it the once but I can see their point about it being hypocritical of her.

Really she seems like in general she went full woke and 180d with this vid which is ironic.

>>10546716
The cheeto dust comment is a common "troll on the internet" meme. I can throw people a bone for the ding dong one, but otherwise they're looking for things to be offended by.

>>10546719
I don't think anyone is offended, just amused at Tyler for bitching at Lor for caving to the woke mob two breaths after having done that herself for years.

>>10546720
Ayrt, yeah. She shouldn't have gone woke at all because if you go woke you go broke

>>10546632
Good lord the replies. Nothing says "friendship" like Tyler sending an army of fans to explain to Lor why her values are wrong and stupid.

God I'm stressed out enough because of other things in the world right now, and once again everyone is spamming instagram with "omg how dare she post a video! be a better ally because you're all racists!"
I don't fucking care.

Saw the video and damn while Tyler is right for saying Lor didn't need to go so far and for calling out what bullshit it was to accuse Harlem Shake vids and Slav squatting as racism, this bitch straight up said "your feelings aren't valid and you're not even entitled to me spitting on you if you were on fire"

She really could have worded this whole vid in a way that people would have listened to and instead said fuck it, we gonna make hoes mad today.

I can't take her sincerity seriously knowing she spent two weeks wasting time writing the non important elements of this script just for it to be a LWLN episode. She should have just done a video as herself not her persona examining the dangers of parasocial relationships becoming abusive, calling out pm for her nazi dress shit, and reminding people that accountability is fine but apologies should for both parties' sake be proportionate to the "offense"

>>10546727
People think Lor is an actual baby/child when she is a 30 or almost 30 something year old woman with a romantic partner and friends she lives with who can emotionally support her just fine. Tyler is not a counselor or therapist. This isn't tough love or making Lor do something hard to improve herself, this is Tyler doing something that is easy for herself to make money from. Some best friend.

>>10546729
agree but also don’t really mind it as it’s making very clear who i should unfollow. i don’t have emotional space in life for all this woke/ sjw/ virtue signaling bullshit. it’s lolita ffs

>>10546693
Yo same. But I do like watching the chisme.

I've been following this situation more or less but I just don't understand how it became an issue about black lolitas specifically. Lots of groups were "done wrong" by trump

>>10546737
Because WF

>>10546737
Because calling someone a racist is a great way to cancel them and the hyper woke crowd love to cannibalize the lesser woke to secure their own status. Everyone knows she isn't actually racist, but that doesn't matter; all that matters is "calling her out" and proving how superior you are.

>>10546661
It's literally just a tag group referring to a common saying when drama happens, and nothing more. And while the group previously stated this as well, this somehow changed, probably because some people are mad at Tylers video as if that's going to change the joke, and after 4 hours they still couldn't find a way to explain why they need to change while they are not related to Tyler and just to the saying/common joke while trying to not sound idiotic.

>>10546760
>a common saying when drama happens
honestly? the fact that this is a "common saying" is a recent thing and extremely weird. new lolitas built up lor and tyler like they were some pseudo lolita gods and i'm not mad to watch that crumble

>>10546730
this is a very good reply and my takeaway. i could have been on board with the video you describes considering this was already a mess, but whatever this was is not it

>>10546693
I need to get on this level, online communities have really hurt my love for the fashion.

>>10546737
Just watched some mexican people speaking up on how wrong Tyler’s video was. Idk how do I feel about it.

>>10546782
I feel the same; Lor even said as much as far as agreeing that "cancel culture" and adjacent topics could have made a good video that applied to online communities including lolita, but that the parts targeted towards herself were uncalled for when she asked not to be involved and they make it look like she told Tyler to do this. Lor clearly felt hurt by Tyler's choice to undermine a decision she made as a grown ass adult and make Lor look insincere to the whole community she just tried to be "accountable" for (even if most of us feel like it was excessive and not neccesary)

I wonder if Tyler will make a video or post apologizing not to the Twitter mob but to Lor personally for involving her in all of this in some attempt to save their friendship as a grand gesture of apology.

I'm just glad that Tyler made this video. Is it perfect? No. But somebody needs to stand up to the woke mob and it takes courage to do so, much more courage than putting a black square or rainbow on your instagram. She's done more than 99% of the people in this thread complaining.

Okay, guys you tell me how hard it would be to build some significant following as a black lolita? I’m asking that because I constantly see people trying to get white influencers into hosting their content. I just wonder how much of a work it would take to build the very own platform to put those statements directly. I see people saying that it’s harder for black bloggers, but I have no idea of an actual scale.

>>10546811
People itt have given similar perspectives both here and likely publicly in comments and on our sm accounts (especially those of us who are poc and not immediately shut down for a dissenting opinion as easily as white people), and all of us did so without being a self centered asshole/shitty friend, but none of us are famous so nobody cared. She hasn't done more just by virtue of having more people watching when she does anything.

>>10546815
There are some arguments that white passing or lighter skinned girls get more attention on sm because of beauty standards, and algorithms might play into that (ex: algorithms that detect faces often have trouble recognizing black faces because of how photography and capturing darker skin colors works or their input data was mostly white guys so they also have issues detecting women) so maybe to some degree it is harder. I'm not an influencer or anything but the most popular accounts do tend to be white or asian girls, who share other popular white or asian girls, so black creators requesting shares or shutouts could actually help them improve their reach.

Lor and Tyler built their followings on YouTube, not Instagram, so maybe gaining notoriety means having high quality videos and commentary or lolita adjacent content on YouTube where the market is less saturated and then leading that following to other socials.

>>10546811
she hasn't done shit other than make a video to rehash drama after it had been mostly quiet. fuck her and her ugly crimped hair.

>>10546820
This. The video hardly even touched on the specific people who were the problem, it was all about how Lor WASN'T the problem, which everyone already knew, and takes a lot less courage than calling out PM directly and showing her actual username, etc. Tyler just repeated what we all agreed with and threw in her shitty childish insults to make it feel lile she was edgy and standing up to the bully when all she did was drum up controversy for her own benefit because she knew people would at least agree with her on the note that Lor didn't need to say sorry.

Tyler called out no one by name or very directly except Lor for being too nice. That wasn't brave or doing anything at all. She took the coward's route by hiding behind her newscaster persona so she can wave off any critique of her tone and way of wording things as unfair because LWLN is still in part a work of satire, and didn't make any attempt to actually be sincere in how she addressed the community at large, and her attempts at sincerity towards Lor came off selfish and demeaning.

>>10546641
Tyler wants to have it both ways, but you can't coddle SJWs and call out scum at the same time because as it turns out, the SJWs are the scum. There is a middle ground, but people who are online attention whores and engage in slacktivism always have skeletons in the closet.
The ugly old man who swore he's trutrans and not a sissy? Turns out he's a sissy and trying to groom young com members.
The privileged mixed race middle aged woman who calls out racism where there isn't? Turns out she's a nazi.

>>10546824
I think it is possible to be sympathetic to the good intentions of SJWs without letting them make you feel like a bad person like Lor, and to stand your ground in certain situations without going as extreme as Tyler's dismissive and poorly expressed take on the community aspect of the situation.

Middle ground people are too afraid of being mistreated by both sides to step into the spotlight/attract attention to themselves so we'll never be the famous ones.

>>10546702
I parsed it as winterfox at first, but that's a different sociopath.

>>10546825
>Middle ground people are too afraid of being mistreated by both sides
Nail on the head, the lonelita life it is for me.

>>10546520
And of course WF response to this is "stop bring up my past"

>>10546833

Requesting WF to apologize or be held accountable will never work because she doesn't see her actions as equally wrong because she's black even though Jewish people have just as much right to be upset about her intentionally owning and engaging with a Nazi dress as anyone else did to be bothered by Lor's like (really more cause the like was involuntary/accidental)

>>10546824
>The ugly old man who swore he's trutrans and not a sissy?
Who? Do you remember which video?

>>10546791
Link?

>>10546791
everyone thinks tyler's video was wrong. i think WF throwing a tantrum was bullshit but tyler's "response" was somehow worse and the bar was on the ground

>>10546693
this. none of this impacts me in the slightest socially and i like it that way

>>10546693

Same here. I feel at peace wearing the fashion for myself and being off social media.

>>10546641
I'd kill for a friend like Tyler is to Lot. Standing up for your friend like this and standing up to loud crazies takes guts.

I hate all these newfags who didn't know who wonderfinch was when all this shit started. Oldfags automatically hate her for good reason.

pfff tyler isn't in "egl wall of shame" anymore

>>10546874
No one liked her before or after this started though.

>>10546833
kek. Just keep gnawing at her.

A taobao reseller created their own little community within our city and are making their own meets, but not sharing with the comm.

Someone in the comm unknowingly makes a meet on the same date/or similar themes since they weren't aware of the event and suddenly it's malicious?

>>10546886
Pisses me off how their followers keep badgering people in the actual comm to change the dates of their meets. Just fuck off and go hang out with your Taobao friends.

>>10546880
But a bunch of newfags used her as an excuse to start more drama. Everyone who has been in the fashion for 10+ years knows that she just wants to cause shit. She has so much old drama, that only newfags would even pay attention to her

>>10546730
i know this is entering parasocial relationship territory ...
but i do feel the reason Tyler did go for it in the LWLN persona is that she probably knew she'd be getting backlash for it, and so she decided to present it in her "i don't care how you feel" fake personality in order to protect herself. She comes across as super guarded/not open to being vulnerable (and ofc that's completely understandable). Like, compared to other youtubers, she's a very private person imo. She doesn't have social media accounts where she talks about her day-to-day or thoughts on things outside of lolita, so I think she went into this knowing there'd be anger and felt it'd be best to display her persona that lets her play "tough guy"

>>10546886
How dare people make similar dates for events when there are only two weekends per week? How odd that more than one person would choose to make a meet on a day that probably works best for most people.

>>10546651
The point is the coercing and guilt tripping people into making you feel better and validated and their expensive needs to stop. The whole point of Tyler's video is that is causes the mob to target someone each time someone does something the mob doesn't agree with.

>>10546907
at their expense, not "and their expensive"

I should proofread

Ive rarely seen anyone outside of cgl and tyler call out wondercunt

>>10546912
finally i’ve been waiting for this

>>10546912
>>10546918
yes let me get my fucking popcorn.

>>10546904
but doing that also makes light of something she's trying to say is a serious issue. a lot of her other PSA style videos she tries to be more genuine about it.

i really want to believe that this is a genuine question but i've been on the internet too long for this, i'm getting sissy vibes

It feels like a lot of people fixated on Tyler saying that "feelings are not always valid" completely out of context. She's not saying that POC should never be upset, but she's saying that people make up situations to be angry about. There's so much fake outrage online over petty drama, and a lot of it, frankly, is not valid. When you make yourself a victim, you make someone else the oppressor. Sometimes that "someone else" (in this case, Lor) never actually did anything wrong, but outrage mobs are desperate to make themselves victims in any way they can. The only way someone could be offended by what Tyler is saying here is if they are part of that mob, didn't watch the video, or didn't understand it.

Most of this video doesn't even go after the outrage mob, like others have said, it's more than anything a criticism of Lor. She said a lot of things about Lor being weak and afraid to stick up for herself. I have to agree that this is a bad thing to do to a friend, publicly going after them instead of privately discussing the matter is not cool at all.

Regardless, Tyler has major balls for this. Call her whatever you want, but she's proven she's not a performative actor, like so many lolitas are. The ones who coddle everyone who isn't white, treating them like children who are just going to get offended by everything. I see lolitas infantilize black people so much that it's disgusting. If you're legitimately afraid to disagree with someone because of their race, regardless of topic, that's really, really, weird. She stuck to her guns and called out the overreactive behavior of spoiled "progressives" who think that liking a picture is hurtful because they've never experienced real oppression. I agree that she shouldn't have made this video in her persona, but this video is incredibly reasonable, and the connections she made to abuse are really well thought out.

>>10546840
>The fact that lor and tyler think they are leftists

>>10546632
Honestly, good on her. This is a mature response, and good on her for defending herself like this.

>>10546943
it could be either, honestly. men are dumb enough not to understand how to maneuver clothing in a bathroom stall.

>>10546726
People are allowed to change their views over time, and they can be wrong lol. It’s okay to mess up, just keep it brief and don’t feed trolls. Actually one of the great points of the video, cancel culture is out of control

>>10546944
>she's proven she's not a performative actor, like so many lolitas are

She was just spewing SJW wokespeak the last 2 or more years. She is performative too.

Plus she isn't brave or standing up against the mob or WF, all she did was trash talk Lor and read some comments.

>The only way someone could be offended by what Tyler is saying here is if they are part of that mob, didn't watch the video, or didn't understand it.

Or maybe we understand what she was saying and agree the mob was wrong but thr video was dislikeable or offputting for other reasons? Like:

-shitty edgelord persona
-insults and shit talking making people less receptive to her supposed point
-shitting on her friend who she feels is abused and bullied by basically telling her to toughen up for Tyler's sake (her whole "think about how much it hurt ME to see you get bullied" comments)
-making the video HEAVILY focused on said friend after she begged her not to...again, when she could have discussed the topic without hanging Lor to dry
-never directly calling out WF, Avina, and other ringleaders by name and glossing over the nazi shit to focus on whiny comments
-focusing on claims made by mostly white people about not talking over black people when black people at large have not been attacking Lor, we have said nothing or been supportive of her minus the loud few
-treating Lor like a baby when she's a 30 yr old woman with a brain and agency, even if she made a cringey unnecesary apology.
-heightening the tension of the situation with the "fuck you" tone of the video so now it's EVEN HARDER for reasonable people to get those who were upset to listen and consider the other side.

Aggressive tactics are unhelpful and only breed conflict when either side uses them, even if Tyler was right about the self flagellation being excessive.

The biggest problem with Tyler's vid is that while her opinion was mostly right, her execution was intentionally inflammatory and only served to generate outrage clicks and views, not help her friend as she was pretending.

If she cared she'd have expressed her concerns more seriously.

>>10546954
it's like others have said, she's trying to deflect, that's all. she can hide behind her persona.

>>10546955
Yeah she took the easy route and used the LWLN anchor persona as a shield. I get it, but it just makes us all question her sincerity.

I think a lot of us wanted to like Tyler's response and expected her to expose PM and critique her in depth, maybe roast DeedeeZeta and her shit coords, criticize the useless nature of bad faith woke social media harassment, and defend Lor a bit. Not make it all about stating the obvious reasons each apology in Lor's video was unnecesary, because we knew that already.

As a black lolita I feel upset because I wanted her to actually challenge PM but she didn't at all...instead she blamed all of us and cherry picked comments that from my perspective seem like a minority overall. She could have made a positive difference if she didn't get off on manufacturing drama rather than making real insightful or balanced commentary.

>>10546953
I guess I should clarify that by "what Tyler is saying here", I'm referring to a section of the video and not the whole thing. "Here" as in the "feelings are not always valid" section of the video. The reason I bring that up in particular is because a lot of people are fixating on it while missing the point. I agree with most of the points you make and they are strong criticisms against her. As I said, she wronged Lor pretty obviously.

>never directly calling out WF, Avina, and other ringleaders by name and glossing over the nazi shit to focus on whiny comments
I don't agree that she should have named anyone directly, most of us know who those tweets were made by, and I'm sure those people would love the attention that comes with being named. It would direct the SJWs who disagree with Tyler to follow their accounts and give them a wider audience. She should have talked more about the nazi shit, I agree.

>She was just spewing SJW wokespeak the last 2 or more years. She is performative too.
In the videos I've seen where she talks about woke topics, she seems pretty sincere. When people talk about racism, they aren't always doing it to be performative and get virtue signaling points. People do genuinely care about these topics. Assuming that everyone who condemns bigotry is doing so in an effort to look good isn't fair. If she was really performative and only wanted to look good for points, she'd be on the ground licking the boots of everyone who treated Lor like shit. I hate whiteknighting Tyler and I'm not a fan of her or her videos. But I don't like how people are intentionally missing certain points of the video to make her look bad.

>>10546962
>Assuming that everyone who condemns bigotry is doing so in an effort to look good isn't fair.


Playing devil's advocate here, what makes Tyler any more sincere than mc who was also Lor's friend and is lumped in with wf? There was supposedly a lot of context Tyler committed. Is it sincere from a white woman we agree with more but clout chasing from a black one because she has less followers/we disagree?

Wf is clearly a garbage bag but mc was supposedly just giving Lor what she felt like was legit advice.

>>10546965
*context omitted, not committed

>>10546961
Any white person who tries to call out WF, Avina, and that crew just gets branded racist. If you’re not a POC they’re not going to listen. This has happened time and time again. It happened several times when people tried to bring attention to the fact that a certain kawaii brand hasn’t been filling their orders they’ve had for half a year. Whenever the issue was brought up by a white person they were immediately dismissed with cries of racism and accused of attempting to tear down a black entrepreneur. Accountability only began when a black influencer called them out even though others had been trying for months.

>>10546965
I actually don't know who mc is, sorry. I'm only aware of a couple of people who were putting down Lor.

>>10546962
>When people talk about racism, they aren't always doing it to be performative and get virtue signaling points. People do genuinely care about these topics. Assuming that everyone who condemns bigotry is doing so in an effort to look good isn't fair.

this. seriously some of the people in this thread concern me. it's like they're incapable of believing that people can genuinely have empathy or respect for other human beings. some of y'all sound like sociopaths

In regards to T, I would think, if you had genuine concerns about your public-figure friend you'd advise them privately instead of with a public call out. I respect where this person is coming from, 100%, but if one of my friends were embroiled in this, I'd have faith in them if they told me it was an accident and I'd help and support them privately, using my platform only if they gave me consent. So bad actors on multiple sides here.

>>10546975
If Lor hadn't rolled over and let things escalate to straight up abuse as T mentions in her vid, I'd have agreed with you.
Also, Lor making it 'normal' to prostrate over bullshit claims will be like giving SJWs a brad-nailer for the coffin the Western lolita community is eventually going to be buried in.

>>10546975
Wow that seriously is fucked up. You put your “friend” who is getting bullied to shit on blast like that? Don’t want to be her friend. The pattern of behavior was a stretch...like why are you feeding people and not taking to to private

I really wish lor would stop being a doormat. Saying "I'm so so sorry" again and again just feels fake. I can't watch her videos either because her voice just sounds like she's going to cry. This whole thing is a mess but Tyler should have just let it be

>>10546975

Also, you can't have a conversation like this publicly and then get upset when people remark. Take it to private messages.

>>10546979
I agree it should have been handled privately just like Tyler should have done too. They are both well intentioned problematic friends if you want to be really neutral and fair about it. Tyler is worse to me though becayse Lor asked her not to and she went against what she asked on an "overprotective" rampage twice. Tyler's tone was clear because she spoke her words out loud, while the tone of the tweet was not and it is more productive to assume it came from a genuine place and not meant to be snarky and just explaining to Lor how to handle the angry people despite her own acknowledgement like many other black lolitas that it was just a mistake, because she could see that people were angry and wanted to help in a way that was considerate of their feelings and help Lor feel better/like she resolved it and didn't just dismiss the feelings of others even if those others were being too sensitive.

>>10546978
I think T is Tiffany, not Tyler

>>10546981
It seems like they did after the fact based on Tiffanys caps.

>>10546839
Nayrt but marinakei and lucrezia.doll on IG both made a lot of valid points.

Honestly all I see is a bunch of white people crying about how EVERYONE is such a bully and everyone is a meanie for bullying Lor and forcing her to do something she shouldn’t of done, but I really didn’t see much bullying. Maybe PM was a bit excessive but mostly people just said “wow I’m glad it was an accident btw you’ve done other not ok shit in the past” No one was actually bullying her or trying to cancel her because she was quickly forgotten once DDZ was unmasked. Her fans are the one blowing this out of proportion, not the people trying to calmly explain why their emotions are valid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHrjMJpS22M
I'm so jealous of this girl. She's a high schooler with an all brand wardrobe, her mother buys her brand and she's been to the Paris AP and BTSSB stores multiple times.

>>10546984
Yeah, take it to PMs after the damage is done. That's a dick move. I would not be surprised at all if T was one of the people feeding to Lor the bs "microaggressions" she should apologize for in the vid. It follows logically from her "pattern of behavior" remark.

>>10546973
I find it unfair that the outrage or commentary of actual minorities is dismissed as performative woke attacks and seen as aggressive while Tyler is the one who is "truly progressive" and meant her anti-racist statements. Yeah WF is gross but the other poc involved do have legit reasons for feeling hypervigilant and really sensitive to everything because of their experiences, so even though I'm not an emotional poc like they are over these issues I feel they are just as sincere as Tyler, even if that emotion and concern in some people manifested in a way that wasn't fair to Lor and became unproductive in the long run. Especially since the same could be said of Tyler's video: not fair to Lor and long term not productive because of the way she expressed her feelings.

If the people who were hurt by Lor's like (which sounds retarded I know but let's take it at face value and assume they really did feel sad about it) had just said "Lor, we like you but this oversight made us feel a bit worried if you have some questionable political views/it was upsetting to see a reminder of shitty people we really don't like, especially since this person/Trump is anti-[insert any non white, straight, and male group here], can you please explain how this happened/try to be a little more careful so we don't end up having this promoted on our feeds?" I think it wouldn't have been so bad. Similarly, if Tyler had said "Lor, I love you and am your friend and I think you are going a little too far with the apologies, and the last couple about the Harlem Shake and slav squat feel more like they cater to racist stereotypes about black people than the actual photos you're saying sorry for. Don't be so hard on yourself over this.", and made a more general video about echo chambers, cancelling, and parasocial abusive relationships instead of one all about Lor, people would have been more receptive.

Everyone on the internet is just immediately so hostile on all sides it causes trouble.

>>10546987
If we assume the best in people, it just looks like she is telling Lor she is cool with her and their friendship is fine but other people are upset and 'xyz' is what other people feel or want from her

>>10546985

That's a very hot take considering a lot of black people at least here were not fans of the apology nor of WF milking this for what it's worth. Also of note the girl calling WF out publicly is black.

Also I'm neither white nor a fan of Lor, I just find this mob action concerning for anyone else in the future. Today it's going to be a liked video and demanding apologies but in another circle of the internet I'm in, someone has literally taken to doxxing people she feels are cyber bullying her. And I feel like WF could definitely go there next considering the strong response she's been given.

>>10546968
They don't even listen to other PoC, for them, being "woke" is a weapon. It's literally a powertrip

>>10546991
So how is it a powertrip for them but everything Tyler does is actually sincere and genuine?

>>10546992
Because we hate them more than we hate Tyler. They make POCs in the community look worse for it if some comments in this thread are anything to go by

>>10546990
Finally, someone who is acknowledging the reality that many/most black people were not in fact attacking Lor. I swear defensive Debbies around here day have been saying we are all responsible for WF somehow when the majority of us didn't even participate in this shit.

I like lucrezia doll or whoever's take to some degree. She is saying "yeah I'm white but I'm also Mexican and seeing pictures of people who hate me liked by someone I respected was jarring and upsetting cause you never really know who turns out to be one way or another, and the apology wasn't about the mistake, it was about making people feel better and it did that for me personally"

I didn't sit through all of it but that aspect at least is a good representation of people who were upset but not attacking in this whole situation.

I can also see how marinakei feels upset by Tyler's response and she has some of the same criticisms people on cgl had and other black lolitas like pearliecute had, agreeing Tyler is only human for wanting to defend Lor but she went about it in a way that was offputting and rubbed many people (especially black people) the wrong way. Marinakeis response on video was a lot angrier sounding than her yt comment tho despite making the same points.

>>10546993
Oh okay so we are back to letting a few black girls define what all us other black girls must think? Because if that's applied equally then Tyler makes white girls in the community look bad too.

You hate them more than Tyler because you're still stuck on seeing black people as a single minded group/are letting other people get away with doing so by behaving as if it is true. But you are willing to see Tyler as separate from all other white lolitas and not extend the same courtesy to black lolitas (or don't hold others accountable to do so, if you're black yourself), and that's a personal thing you need to work through.

It's clear that more people itt are willing to give Tyler the benefit of the doubt than poc smaller lolitas.

Not because of racism, but because they are blinded by anger and annoyance and see any poc with a grievance as a symbol or stand in for woke culture that they hate, and see Tyler as a martyr or hero for saying anything remotely against it because they feel victimized or at risk of being so by the Twitter mob.

Every poc is not a cog in the woke machine out to get you. Please have enough empathy to see us as human and just as sincere as Tyler rather than sinister political correctness villains with ulterior motives. I personally wasn't hurt by Lor but the way people are dismissive of the feelings of and blaming black lolitas over and over in this thread, even to the point of lashing out at those of us who agree with you on the situation doesn't sit right.

Also fuck Wonderfinch and her haggard grandma face.

>>10546994

Are you the anon I replied to? Because that directly contradicts your earlier comment, but I'm glad you also see that no race is a monolith, nor any particular opinion.

I don't really have the patience to sit through either lolitas' responses as I follow neither, but I guess I get it. I will say when I first saw the controversy, even back then Lor definitely did not strike me as a Trumper. If she feels more comforted by the fact, more power to her. But remember that Lor before this had already issued two long winded apologies, and it wasn't 'good enough' for the crew. That is what concerns me. They will not stop until they have exerted a certain power over you and it sort of sickens me they have the desire to do that.

>>10546997
Ayrt, just now, I was not >>10546985

>>10547000

Ah ok that clears up a lot. It's confusing sometimes, sorry about that!

>>10546986
is this a selfpost? she has like what, 20ish dresses? that's pretty standard, and most of the stuff she has is unpopular shit that sells very cheap secondhand. there's nothing to be jealous of here.

sucks that she wastes her parents' money on mostly ugly releases though, if you can play around with daddy's credit card you might as well go for things that are more impressive

>>10547000
Also to add: I don't see how what I said contradicts what they said in that post at all though.

>>10546575
Literally lol

>>10547003

>Honestly all I see is a bunch of white people crying about how EVERYONE is such a bully and everyone is a meanie for bullying Lor and forcing her to do something she shouldn’t of done
>>10546985

I was specifically replying that it's pretty clear it's not just white people.

Can we just all agree to blame WF and whoever went digging for that photo Lor accidentally liked for causing this shitstorm?

>>10547011

That's what I've been saying!


Actually tho I think the girl who initially spread the pic, at least in my comm, was some girl who WAS NOT trying to call out Lor, she was just confused at the photo in general and was sharing it with friends on FB and someone who knew Lor claimed to have spoken to her personally and confirmed it was a mistake when people questioned her name and I think sunshine by hester's was on the photo at the time as well.

Idk where else it was spread but I think it was the sensitive people who had seen Lor's very public allyship and felt "betrayed" or shocked seeing her in the list of various kawaii fashion wearers who liked it, and it all just escalated from there.

>>10547012
>>10547011
Agree with this. The original version of the photo was just a screenshot from a concerned friend who isn't even particularly involved in the lolita community. Although I do kind of wish the screencap was just sent to Lor, and not spread around so the mistake could be corrected with minimal fallout. Even so, people like WF who saw the screencap later took it way out of proportion afterwards because it's DRAMA.

>>10547012
>>10547014

The problem is that both you and I absolutely know that is not how this would have happened. Once the photo was shared, it would not have gone down privately, there are too many sharks in the water for that to happen.

Sometimes, I really hate this community, but thank god my friends are pretty rational.

>>10547014
What kind of 'concerned friend' posts it publicly? Unless I'm missing a huge amount of context, there's absolutely no reason a friend would post that, it was someone who knows Lor well enough to call themselves a friend while still doing dumb callout posts for clout.

>>10547011
At first I was going to say 'yes, stalker behavior and weird' but on the other hand... given that it is a fashion hobby, I can see why someone might be diving around in Lor's likes to find people with a similar style they may potentially not know about.

>>10547016
Nayrt but a girl in my comm who wears decora posted it on her personal fb or on a local jfashion page because of the subject of the photo itself, like she was confused why an alt fashion person was at a MAGA rally, not concerned about who had liked the pic, and OTHER people in the comments got confused and riled up a bit about Lor, some even mistook the picture as subversive or possibly leftist at first (before the pro trump stuff on the subjects socials were exposed) because of the alt fashion accounts who liked it, and a friend of Lors privately told her about it and the friend relayed some info to us about how it was a mistake. Hours later I saw all the stuff then went down on Lor's sm and screenshots of all the tweets and whatnot.

>>10547020
Press X to doubt, desu, but not to the girl in your comm. I'm sure she was genuine.

However, the original person who posted it publicly instead of just sending it to Lor... If it was just about the photo, why crop it to include who liked it at all? There's no way it wasn't intentional. I seriously doubt it was a friend of Lor making some well-intentioned mistake. People know how the internet works.

>>10547022
I swear to god I mean to write 'Press X to doubt, desu'. Wtf I'm not even using an iphone my fingers just did that on their own.

>>10547024
oh now I get it

>>10547022
I'm not sure what you're doubting. I've said twice now that this girl was possibly the origin of the post and well intentioned and wasn't malicious toward Lor. Maybe others reposted it on instagram later, or someone else shared it in a negative context first? Idk.

If anyone knows exactly where the original post was made for the first time in any jfashion comm, I would really like to know for sure out of genuine curiosity.

>>10547022
>>10547024
>>10547025
I have a handy image for you

Not replying to a single post in particular but a general vibe- the idea that Tyler was calling out the BLACK lolita community is weird. The only time she specified race was when the poster themselves put in in their post (and that's honestly valid because a huge amount of people follow the 'I am x therefor my opinion can not be questioned and my emotions are facts' model, which illustrated exactly what Tyler was discussing as an issue), and the very first one was Jewish and only one or two others followed?

As people have said, black people aren't a fucking hivemind. I get the whole 'stfu you're making us look bad' vibe, but I wouldn't put that onto Tyler or the video. It might have done her well to cap with an 'obviously this wasn't every member of the black/jewish/leftist community', but I don't think that's so different from insisting that you add a 'not all men' tag to a video about sexism. It goes without saying and the ones demanding it are missing the point.

>>10547027
The post I was responding to said "the original version of the photo was just a screenshot from a concerned friend who isn't even particularly involved in the lolita community". The fact that they said 'original version' made me think they meant the first person who shared it publicly.

I replied "What kind of 'concerned friend' posts it publicly?", in reference to a friend of Lor, not just why some rando would be potentially concerned. Once it's out there it's out there. I'm just referring to the first person who posted it, who I seriously doubt was any friend of Lor's

>>10546650
Well considering a majority of cgl and the Lolita comm is unemployed and or entitled fat Americans it stands to reason that this shit happens all the time.

>>10547031
>people follow the 'I am x therefor my opinion can not be questioned and my emotions are facts' model

Tbh I see people listing their race as more of a disclaimer of where their experience is coming from, that's the only time I ever do this anyway.

I do think that people's takeaway that Tyler was calling out primarily black lolitas came from the fact (1) that some of the main people involved publicly in the apology were T and WF who are black and Tyler was upset with them--wf deserved it, whether or not T did is debatable, and (2) Lor did actively say the apology was not for her white followers and was for her poc and especially black followers. As unnecesary as the apology was, Tyler directly attacking or denouncing something intended to quell the concerns or sad feelings of that group probably made the more sensitive people feel like that meant Tyler was directing her complaints to us even though that isn't neccesarily the case.

All the more reason Tyler should have not fucked up her video with her verbose convoluted "newscaster" way of saying things and should have just written/presented an even keeled and straightforward video essay so people are in the right frame of mind to recieve what she is saying and don't get lost in assumptions or inference because she didn't take the time to clarify.

>>10546912
Hell yes. I want to make a Twitter account just to call her out as well. Then she can go dirty delete full stop herself.

>>10547040
>All the more reason Tyler should have not fucked up her video with her verbose convoluted "newscaster" way of saying things and should have just written/presented an even keeled and straightforward video essay so people are in the right frame of mind to recieve what she is saying and don't get lost in assumptions or inference because she didn't take the time to clarify.

Tbh that's a pretty big ask for someone who hides behind that persona a lot. But I do see your point, and I kind of see how you could maybe walk away with Tyler calling out primarily black lolitas- but I think you'd still be wrong to do so. Again, black people aren't a hivemind and assuming 'disagreeing with two black lolitas' is equatable at all with 'targeting black lolitas' is the mindset of someone way too hyper-woke to see reality.

>>10547044
I'm not saying people are right in that assumption, just that I can see how they could reasonably come to that conclusion and when the way the arguments were presented already put them off to start, they are probably less sympathetic or willing to be as rational and give her the benefit of the doubt because they see her as drumming up community drama, not trying to make a real point.

The persona is something she hides behind a lot but she has made more and more personal content. If she can be herself while opening birthday and holiday gifts and gushing over dresses and joking with her partner on camera, she can surely do so for the greater good of the community/when defending a friend she really truly wants to protect, right?

>>10546988
>be more careful so we don't have this in our feeds

The person who sent the OP picture to WF went digging for it. It's so obvious. Lor has liked 2727363732 pictures just like most insta users. That individual probably followed the clown instagrammer too.

Also, if you don't like someone's political stances block them and unfollow them? Is it everyone's job to not offend you? I swear this is a strictly entitled American issue. Just get off SM if you're triggered by something as petty as a like on a photo that you disagree with. Or seek some actual psychiatric help if that actually gives you PTSD.

>>10547048
>The persona is something she hides behind a lot but she has made more and more personal content. If she can be herself while opening birthday and holiday gifts and gushing over dresses and joking with her partner on camera, she can surely do so for the greater good of the community/when defending a friend she really truly wants to protect, right?
I think that's true to an extent, but look at the response to Lor's various apologies, right? Now try to write a personal, genuine response to get across everything Tyler wished to get across in her video that doesn't rely on humor.

I'm not saying you can't, but I am saying read through it again and imagine it being picked apart by the exact sort of people who are picking apart Lor's apologies.

In-character, Tyler could make her point without people 'uhm actually'ing every syllable that leaves her lips. If they want to argue with it, they have to argue against the summary of her point, not dissect it into tiny sound-bites they can cry foul at.

>>10546895
>>10546905
Holy fuck this.
>>10546886
I feel for you anon

>>10547051
You are correct that it's an American issue, but at this point the divide is so huge that 'dresses up to attend a pro-Trump rally' goes against simple disagreements. The type of person who does the cult trump shit, at this point, is genuinely fucked in the head.

That said- yeah, block 'em and unfollow 'em. I get sad they exist, too, but you're only hurting yourself.

>>10546988
ayrt literally i agree with basically everything you said except for the first paragraph; being a "wokescold" is a real thing and I think that's the point some people are trying to make. Wokescold behaviour (i.e. WF and similar comments from others) is a problem because it makes it impossible to criticize people in a productive way and they drown out legitimate criticisms and concerns by encouraging and perpetuating abusive backlash. I'm sure the more extreme reactions came from a sincere emotional place too, but that doesn't make it okay to try to harm people or advocate for harm just because you feel hurt. I have traumas that no one could possibly know and when I get triggered or hurt by someone who doesn't know any better and didn't have bad intentions, I know better than to hold it against them and demand accountability, especially if they're just on their social media trying to live their life and don't even know that I exist. I am hypervigilant and sensitive to shit like this and other things but I also have self awareness and know that I can hurt people if I'm not careful and responsible with my own behavior.

>>10547051
I'm not saying those people are logical or objectively right and Lor has every right to tell them to just unfollow or block and move on and doesn't owe them anything. I wasn't bothered by it it personally.

I was just giving an example of how other people can be hypersensitive and still express how they felt nicely without freaking out. If you think someone ever expressing having feelings you disagree with or don't understand at all makes them entitled and in need of therapy idk what to tell you.

Maybe I'm being too considerate of all sides of the situation, idk, I don't think someone went digging when at least 2 people upthread mentioned they had a concerned or curious non lolita who had posted it and not with the intent to attack Lor or even realising Lor was related in one of the cases until people called it out later. At that point anyone in whichever facebook groups or on whatever friend lists could have been the first to screencap or download the original screenshot to use for starting all the drama.

Yes people can be really sensitive but it may do you some good to not assume the worst in everyone and lash out at them for being very vulnerable/honest and open; giving people the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming malice would probably help you feel less easily angered or annoyed by those sensitive people.

I really am approaching this from the perspective of someone like Lor desu; I hate upsetting others, even by mistake, and want to do my best to resolve or avoid conflict and make them feel good things rather than bad ones. Everyone isn't like this though and you don't have to be if you hate the idea that people are sensitive so much.

>>10547002
I only started in the fashion last year, so I don't really know what's standard in your average lolita's wardrobe.

>>10547061
My first paragraph wasn't excusing their behavior at all, I thought I made that clear talking about how both their and Tyler's feelings manifested in a way that was unproductive and harmful.

I just fail to see how Tyler is not a woke warrior but these poc lolitas are when to me the end results are both bad and the poc lolitas have a more personal investment in "social justice" than Tyler does because of their ethnicities, so how can they be faking it for clout but not Tyler? I just disliked the double standard there but none of anyone's actions here were okay or virtuous and all of them should have been way more reasonable with how they spoke to one another.

>>10547052
I think you're missing a bit of the point, too.

Tyler's vid was directed at the greater community, not WF and co and the rabid woke mob. It was directed at the people on the sidelines or had more nuanced thoughts about the scenario. Tyler knows wf and co will not listen and wasn't trying to speak to them, they are abusive and hateful and mean to her friend, of course there's no helping them.

So the actual audience wouldn't be looking to pick her apart, just listen to her points, had she made them in a way that was easier to digest and wasn't intentionally abrasive.

If she wasn't prepared to do that then she shouldn't have wasted her time because it makes her seem clout driven and insincere and just hurts her goal, if thw goal was to defend Lor adequately and show the community as a whole how the loud minority was harmful and problematic.

>>10547067
ooohh i see your point. Idk, if i had to guess, it's because those extreme reactions read as less sincere because lor apologized so many times and none of them.were apparently good enough for certain people. over a like. after that point, no matter how sincere it is, it sounds fully bad faith and loses all sympathy

For someone who's whole shtick is reporting on lolita drama, it sure is something that she literally doesn't mention DDZ being a literal nazi. But ok go off i guess

>>10547075

I would rather Tyler have ignored the situation for Lor's sake and spent the episode trashing ddz rather than the half assed selfish excuse for a defense/dissertation she ended up with.

>>10547075
Like someone upthread said: the bar was on the ground and Tyler managed to miss it

>>10546840
Anon, “everyone” is quite a too strong word. Considering that like to dislike ratio at Tailor’s video is roughly 3.6 to 1, it doesn’t feels like everyone thinks the video is wrong.

I think it boils down to an appreciated intent and overall message that needed to be said, but shitastic execution that obscures most of it and makes her insufferable. WF and co are still the bigger fucknuggets in my books though.

>>10547071
Several points:

Firstly, I never claimed you were 'missing points' or anything like that. I prefer to stay away from language that somehow implies I have the 'right answer' or 'full picture' and others don't. I just wanted to illustrate a point I was trying to make. No one has to be 'missing points' to value some points higher than others, and there's no right answer here.

Secondly, I don't believe that you can earnestly say her audience wouldn't be picking her wording apart. There are radicals that are worse than others within the community, sure, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us are all sunshine and rainbows and never take things out of context or argue over phrasing instead of ideas.

Thirdly, if the arguing is that there is a 'goal', and that goal involved awareness, I'm pretty sure donning that anchor character was the only option where she could genuinely claim to be attempting to spread the word, considering her view counts. People prefer LWLN over Just Tyler, which is pretty standard for youtube personas.

I don't consider it clout chasing, but I am a Tyler fan so I'm likely bias and I'll cop to that. Even so, I think her message was important enough that I hope people are thinking about it more critically than just 'she went after the black community', because I think it's genuinely needed atm.

As far as her relationship with Lor, I hope they are able to reconcile. I do think she relied a little to heavily on the 'friend defending friend' angle which is what made Lor the most uncomfortable. Honestly I think it would have gone better to say that she was coming at this as a lolita creator and doing her best to report on it honestly and with the community in mind despite it being a friend, and was going against Lor's wishes because the overall issue was larger than her, not because 'she's my friend!'.

>>10546985
Making an apology is a quite a humbling experience. It kinda makes you to tear a little bit of your ego off in order to repay for harm caused, and basically it does make sense in many cases. In this particular case people cheer Lor for humiliating herself over having poor fine motor skills, it doesn’t feel right.

>>10546180

Re: who runs the BLC Instagram, I’m pretty sure it’s Amber from the NYC comm

People go so nuts over the subconscious like of Trump supporter, imagine what would happen if there were some actual republican lolitas in community.

>>10546871
This.

>>10546871
Btw I happened to watch her british nitwits video when the drama just began, so it felt like she might want to do some similar gesture again, but honestly I thought she won't do that.

>>10547094
Like DDZ? lol

>>10547102
No, like less flamboyant conservative people. Some pearl clutching wine moms rather than edgelord nazis.

>>10547094
There are, but they're not high-profile like Lor. WF saw an opportunity to tear down a white influencer and she grabbed it.

So first of all I don't think I have the right answer either, and so many posts talked about "missing the point" it must have stuck in my head and mistakenly been associated with yours, my bad.

>>10547090
>Secondly, I don't believe that you can earnestly say her audience wouldn't be picking her wording apart.

You are a self admitted fan and not doing that. I am a subscriber of Tyler's and am not picking apart semantics, but am questioning her intent and if the execution was effective for her intent or productive or helpful at all in anything besides generating views and upsetting people, even those she claimed to be trying to support. Even some of the most pissed off woke people in the comments like marinakei are mostly upset at her aggressive presentation, not the semantics of her video.

>if the arguing is that there is a 'goal', and that goal involved awareness, I'm pretty sure donning that anchor character was the only option where she could genuinely claim to be attempting to spread the word,

She has tons of videos of herself not as a persona on her platform though. We all know she is more than the persona at this point. Her follower count doesn't suddenly change when she is more genuine and herself; she has just as much reach either way, so I don't agree this was the ONLY option to spread the word. And ex: look at PETA. Their goal is awareness or animal liberation or whatever and they raise awareness via offending or upsetting people and liberate animals by stealing them from owners and killing them at times, more of us know who they are, sure, but their scorched earth approach makes us all hate them.

All awareness is not "good" awareness. And even if the newscaster persona did inherently somehow grant Tyler greater reach, angering a larger crowd is not better than educating a smaller one, imo, and that's what I feel Tyler's video knowingly did in pursuit of views.

>>10547128
WF sucks but in her defense...if the influencer is not high profile or isn't public with their views how would WF know who they are, right? And why would she draw attention to them, right?

If we take her accountability schtick at face value it makes sense why she picked Lor. Lor is the biggest lolita influencer rn and is actually nice and receptive to concrit, and is a self identified lefty so they know it takes less energy to encourage her to change/grow/educate her or whatever, so I can see why this makes her a target.

On the flip side we all feel or know wf is arguing all of her points in bad faith because of her "rules for thee not for me" approach to owning DW and all so it can also just be perceived as Lor being an easy target because of white guilt and being unnecesarily kind and accommodating.

>>10546779
It has been a thing ever since LWLN got popular, which started 4 years or so ago.

>>10546875
Is she kicked out or did she leave?

>>10546584
Have you not seen the comments on IG or Facebook in the last two days? Ipukekawaii, empirenoir, kaiserramos and co are saying exactly this.

>>10546943
Honestly I'm more worries about everyone telling him to go to the girls bathroom. Like, there are stalls in mans bathrooms too, afaik those standing toilets aren't made for pooping after all, let him go there. A dress doesn't make a guy a woman, nor does he magically become trans or so. A brolita i still a dude.

>>10547136
> nor does he magically become trans
> A dress doesn't make a guy a woman

Isn't that how trans thing works? At least for everyone around the trans person in question.

>>10547132
no idea, both options are hilarious though

this is what happens when shoehorn politics into every damn thing. the comm is supposed to be superficial and focus on the hobby and related activities.

>>10546621
Tbh the change was coming. Most people in that group felt like the meme had become stale a long time ago, this was just the push they needed.
>according to the post anyway
Personally I’m glad it changed. The group wasn’t her cheerleader hugbox, it was just a silly meme that had long since run its course

honestly, i think tyler sucks. her persona is a huge relic of 2010s media, annoying and bitch just for the sake of it. and she herself is a bit cringe and can't hide her desire for efame no matter how serious she tries to be. not to mention she sucks at coords and took years to style her hair in a flattering way.

>>10546463
Okay, that thing sticks in my mind, so I'll post it. If we're going to keep on apology drama, please, do the pink MCtF to fit the theme.

>>10546471
you don't know these people, evidently

>>10547135
I guess I happen to follow the nicer less problematic black jfashion and lolita wearers? I never even heard of ipukekawaii until people shared her more positive sort of "you are loved and beautiful etc" post to black jfashion wearers yesterday in their stories.

>>10547135

If they are saying that, those people are just as wrong as white people itt claiming it's all black people's responsibility to denounce wf publicly, which I have seen far more than people blaming any white lolitas for the shitty people in the community. This exists at a larger scale in the world too. White people don't need to denounce school shooters, angry Karens, etc. but black people have to bend over backwards to prove we aren't associated with "the bad kind" of black people like "thugs" or girls that are "ghetto" and whatever else by not wearing hoodies and hoop earrings or whatever the fuck. Maybe because I see it at the larger scale in society I find it frustrating to see people saying the same thing on cgl so causally despite so many of us blatantly saying we disagree with the overly woke people here and being ignored in favor of some defensive white person excited to have a chance to feel like they have a valid reason to be mad at black lolitas at large in revenge for a small handful of completely different black people being part of the wokescolding clique.

>>10547103
I don't know how many of them are still lolitas now because I moved years ago, but when I used to go to the large Midwest Mega-meets there were definitely some girls that you could tell were very conservative/right wing nutters beneath the surface. They're definitely around, they just know to keep their shit to themselves I guess.

>>10547166
Doubt, ipukekawaii is a longtime lolcow, I'm not even on lolita sm and I remember her

I guess I realized what bothers me about this "nobody's perfect, it's not an end of the world" line people keep perpetuating. It's not an end of the world, but it's an actual public embarrassment situation you can't wipe away because Internets remember everything, so I can see why would people can overdo trying to avoid that. They get blamed for "more worrying about being labeled as racist rather than being actively anti-racist" as if people seriously expect them to be THAT priveleged they will put literal strangers interests over their own.

>>10547168
>white people itt claiming it's all black people's responsibility to denounce wf publicly

Just a few of white people has Tyler's guts to take a risk being labeled as racist. Unless they make a throwaway Twitter account, of course.

I'm honestly glad for this thread so I can read more into the nuances of everything going on. Thanks for all the thoughtful contributions from everyone

>>10546825
Amen to this, jfc.

>>10547171
>Doubt, ipukekawaii is a longtime lolcow, I'm not even on lolita sm and I remember her

I'm a newfag to be fair. I admired lolita /was a lolita at heart only wearing other jfashion for like 8 years before becoming a lonelita in college and only recently even joining my local comm or following lolitas besides deerstalker, pixielocks when she wore it, lor, and peachie.

And the black lolitas around are all new to me because I only really followed people who had YouTube channels until maybe the last year, not on insta or twitter (I don't have twitter)

why is there even drama... couldn't you gulls just be indifferent with black lolitas and not bat an eye.
..Maybe not associate with them in the comm if you can't tolerate it.

Did anyone happen to catch what Tyler posted on her IG Stories before it was deleted? I had the notification that she updated her Stories on my main feed but when I tapped it it showed nothing.

>>10546489
Look I'm Latina and I'm not touching any of this drama or any political shit with a ten foot poll. Even if internally I don't agree with WF or her mob, or that bullshit begging for forgiveness shit, and agree that Lor shouldn't have done the video. I'm pretty conservative, like moat other Hispanics.

But I tread carefully publicly and do the minimum to keep SJW's happy. I'm not looking to get cancelled or for someone to call my job and get them to fire me or something. Fuck that. Why would anyone willingly touch that bees nest?

>>10547189
if only... too bad it's the internet where all the crazies get to have a say just like everyone else, and they made sure they were heard the loudest

>>10547075
Did she even talk about how lolita was trending easier this year?

>>10547203
The longer you leave that bee's nest alone, the larger and more dangerous it becomes.

What did Lor say about black lolitas? Im guessing she had deleted the original videos

>>10547203
As a Latina, I can only watch in awe while these Americans tear themselves apart. It doesn't matter how inclusive these people claim to be, United States has a history of looking down on third world citizens and causing harm to our politics. These people don't even bat an eye for that. Hope they eat themselves alive, no time to worry myself with their first world drama.

>>10547215
thanks for generalizing an entire population of people as if they're all the same

>>10547216
That is exactly what you do every time you talk about latinx people. When was the last time you saw any of these sjw American Lolitas say anything about the genocide US has been doing to south America? You're welcome, my pleasure.

>>10547211
That's not really how bees work. Wasps or hornets would have been a better metaphor.

>>10547218
To be fair that's the government and so many people here are too poor and busy working and dying from no healthcare to pay attention to non domestic political issues.

>>10546489
No, because in NA race issues are literally black and white and if you're outside of that and want visibility you better make your own space and stop piggybacking off theirs. Even though we do and no one gives a fuck after all. This whole thing has just been hilarious for me because Lor hardly ever makes a point to support Latino businesses, has never made a Latino owned businesses video, and somehow we're fine, right?

>>10547221
Depending on where you live though Latinas get more resources, visibility, and funding than black people by far. In Texas where I live, Cali, and much of the southwest with higher Latino populations, Latino community struggles are hugely prominent and are often more supported and funded than black orgs or issues. It might be a regional thing.

>>10547223
It only makes sense that if a community is bigger than another they require more resources. Especially considering that was all Mexican land, yeah. What's your point?
That doesn't negate the fact that Latinos get murdered by police and bigots at the same rate as black people, or that ICE just "lost" 1500 children at the border camps, or that within our own lolita community we are just not as visible as everyone else. We have better things to talk about like Lovely Lor not including ENOUGH black lolitas on her channel. We're not included hardly at all and we're not crying about it?? It's whiny as fuck that this all came from a stupid insta like

>>10547228
I agree there are bigger problems than lolita community drama/inclusivity and all.

I was just trying to reassure you that the Latino community on a bigger scale is typically just as if not more supported as the black community on a lot of levels, so even if this lolita comm bullshit has you feeling left out, that might be a positive to keep in mind.

>>10547228

Nayrt but I see a lot of latinas in the lolita community. Brazillian ones, lucrezia doll is extremely popular, etc. and in my local comm more members are latina than anything else too. Many of them are also probably white passing like lucrezia based on the irl latina lolitas I know and how I see the best dressed or most well off ones are all very light skinned, maybe because of how colorism and class intersect in Latino communities a lot of the time. Most famous and well liked universally latinas, asians, or black people and other minorities even in normie sphere have always been lighter skinned or white passing up until recent years so sometimes even though the representation is there it doesn't really feel like it.

>>10547228

Don't pretend like a huge swatch of both latinos and black people don't have racist prejudices towards each other all the time and how this leads to both groups wanting to do their own thing as well. Every group has their own struggles and we should be more supportive of one another and not waste time infighting or saying one side has it worse when what we really want is just people to all get along, be chill about each other, and feel heard and represented.

>>10547215
>causing harm to our politics
what kind of harm?

>>10547218
>genocide US has been doing to south America?
can you elaborate? tb completely h, i thought that us relationship with latinx is different from what they have with black and indigenous people because there wasn't militant enforcement towards people in their native lands.

Onto "visibility" discussion, I totally get that getting less likes from the community stings, like really much, but why do you guys think you're entitled to that?

>>10547062
No, I'm saying that people who are triggered by someone liking a photo can unfollow the person who did so. Not talking about Lor being sensitive.

>>10547218
This 100 percent! No one cares about Venezuela, the thousands in cages at the border, the cartels who own most of latain American all because they're making meth for white people, etc..

>>10547243
ayrt, I'm talking about both the triggered people and Lor are sensitive, in different ways

>mfw I just want WF gone

She has poisoned several local communities and now thanks to getting more reach because of her antiracist post, she's now poisoning the online community.

I don't think the black community or any individual /needs/ to confront her. I've been in enough situations where the emotional work is simply too much so I get it. Plus the idea of being bound to every stupid internet wank fest by race is idiotic. But I do feel like it would have a bigger impact so thanks to those who did speak up.

>>10547245
>the cartels who own most of latain American all because they're making meth for white people

I think those at fault here are the cartels and corrupt Latin and North American government officials and police who enable them, not the white methheads in Oklahoma, anon

>>10547245
Martial law that was reinforced in many south America countries happened thanks to us' funding during the last century and up to this day causes us problems. US' continuous economical bargains that aims to weaken Latin countries (specially Venezuela), their military interventionism disguised as democracy, their constant funding of alt right political parties in SA (see both Chile, Brazil and Argentina) and so on are never addressed by the so acclaimed sjw in this fashion
There are many things that US do to fuck us over and over again all in the name of their imperialism. American lolitas simply have no idea about these things and therefore should have no right to say that they're somewhat inclusive of latinx people and culture.

I don't care for visibility or whatever, it just leaves me salty whenever I see these girls claiming to be so uwu aware of everyone's problems and struggles and so supportive of all minorities, but completely blind to whatever happens in other countries.


>Inb4 go to pol
Anon asked, so here I am replying. Google should help fill-in the gaps.

>>10547251
I think it's a both sides issue. America is not doing enough to get folks off of Meth making a market. I agree that Latin American governments are overly corrupt.

The post I was initially referring to mentioned how no one bats an eye to our troubles. Which is true, SJW especially don't know and don't really care about Latinos problems.

Personally, I think even though they pretend to advocate for "BIPOC", what they mean is "we only care about black people not anyone else".

>>10547259
>Personally, I think even though they pretend to advocate for "BIPOC", what they mean is "we only care about black people not anyone else".
This

>>10547257
>American lolitas simply have no idea about these things and therefore should have no right to say that they're somewhat inclusive of latinx people and culture.

Anon...including/the visibilty or popularity of Latinx lolitas or wanting to promote them or be more visible in the community has nothing to do with actual politics, do you really expect people whose only association with each other is liking frills to have in depth discussions about problems outside of the lolita community? Yah in our own time people discuss these things outside of the context of lolita, but as it relates to the community and keeping things about fashion, all we can do is like and follow and support or share people from more diverse ethnic groups and include all of them and whatnot.

As a black lolita I don't expect the community to address anything beyond legitimate racism in reference to lolita (like comments about how black girls should not wear their natural hair or people thinking pastels look better on pale skin,etc.) The best the lolita comm can reasonably be expected to handle is surface level microaggressions because it's a group brought together by surface level subjects like clothes. And maybe a dash of feminism since we are mostly women and that intersects with the fashion's origins.

What would you have people do? Have organized frilly political debates? I'm sure people who really care about serious issues are researching and donating and supporting things in their own time, and if they don't care and have time and energy and resources to, then yeah fuck them for that. I understand why you're upset but it's pretty obvious why these deeper issues aren't talked about in lolita as much as superficial ones.

>>10547218
ayrt i mean idk why you're straw manning me here, because i literally don't say any of that shit and i personally hate US imperialism and recognize that the US has and continues to fuck up other countries for its own gain. so maybe, again, don't generalize and make assumptions about people

>>10547261
>or people thinking pastels look better on pale skin
This has never made any sense to me at all, personally. I've always thought pastels and shiro coords look way better the darker your skintone is, the contrast makes them pop better.

In any case I agree with the rest of your comment, personal politics should not be a community issue (which is part of why we're now in this mess in the first place).

>>10547259
>SJW especially don't know and don't really care about Latinos problems.
>Personally, I think even though they pretend to advocate for "BIPOC", what they mean is "we only care about black people not anyone else".

Maybe it's because of who I follow and interact with irl outside of lolita but everyone I know gives equal weight to Latino and black problems, but tend to support Latinos overall year round while they only really talk about black problems when it's a trend or "in season" to. I get that everyone's experience online is vastly different so maybe I'm just lucky to be in an online environment of a good number of people who are sincere and try at least to generally put equal effort into bringing attention different groups' issues. Of course there are lots of people in between on my feed who post nothing political at all or only white liberal shit like "thank god Biden and Harris are in office now, everything is fine now yay no more caring about politics", but those are few and far between the people who are really informed and active about raising awareness and linking to donation and volunteer opportunities for both local and international efforts and struggles.

Like one post in my feed will be the address of a local community fridge and what kinds of food they would like us to leave, and another will be linking to a gofundme for a Latinx family who needs help because of the pandemic, and then other will be resources to educate oneself about and donate to causes like indigenous groups in Canada being antagonized lately, or petitions to support lawyers to help children separated from their parents be allowed to speak to them and make a case and be removed from ICE custody since so many children have been abused, neglected, and harmed in those facilities.

>>10547261
I see.

man if tyler gets cancelled for this my only source of good salt will be cgl and that shit depresses me

>>10547268
You uhh, you left ur email there anon

>>10547268
ya I did cause my last post was on the BST thread, fuck me. I can't delete it now either. ah well. its a throwaway anyway

>>10547269
and then I replied to my own shit. god damn. I am a mess today. no more cgl without sleep for me

>>10547268
It's a distinct possibility; she pissed a lot of people off.

>>10547269
Yeah I did, finally got it to delete lol. its just my throwaway for buying shit on the BST thread but I still don't want it up everywhere.
anyway. I just wanted to say before I made an ass of myself...I will be sad if tyler gets cancelled for this cause then cgl will be my only source of salt and thats depressing

>>10547274
Even if you deleted it it’s on the archive attached to that post for forever

>>10547273
Just looked up the stats

Lor's apology video
> ~ 17k views
> 2.1k likes
> 538 dislikes

LWLN 10 02 2020 (the video with similar amount of views for reference)
> ~ 17k views
> 2k likes
> 16 dislikes

I guess she's got a good share of dislikes on this one, but the number of people supporting her is pretty much the same. I'd say her own platform is probably safe, but it's still up to community mods or event organisers deciding whether she keeps her presence there or not.

>>10547278
yeah I know that but I would still rather it not be in the actual visible thread

>>10547274
I'm gonna keep watching her at least
everyone freaking out over tyler stirring the pot again are the ones stirring the pot and making a big freaking deal about all this
you have to be pretty unreasonably sensitive to be that offended at her video; imo people are reading into the video in ways it never was supposed to be read into and hearing shit she didn't say
it wasn't a good idea to make the video and she could've probably executed it in a way that would go down easier but her entire channel is for salt not sugar coating

>>10547293
I don't think most of us are offended by her video or freaking out at all, at least not people here. Most people are not saying it was offensive, just that Tyler was really pretending hard this was all to protect Lor and educate people when in reality we all knew what went down and most of the community thought it was ridiculous, and Tyler made the video for shit stirring, salt, and attention, but was too self righteous to admit it and had to make it some moralfag shit about how Lor was being a selfish friend for being publicly abused by a couple people on Twitter, as if she could have really stopped any of it. All she could have done was ignore it at best, but that wouldn't have stopped the vitriol from someone like WF who would have kept posting or @ing Lor until she got bored or a response, so it was stupid of her to blame Lor for someone else being a bully.

>>10547293
>she could've probably executed it in a way that would go down easier
This is kind of what most people here who disagree with her tone or presentation feel. That Tyler made too big a deal of it for her to do her usual shitty half assed LWLN job .

>>10547300
by "everyone freaking out" i meant everyone who was freaking out, not exclusively people on cgl. ig i could have clarified
but i don't think she did it for salt stirring and attention for attention's sake
i would have spoken up and said something for the same reasons she said she had, i just would've said them differently, but even then the video didn't make me uncomfortable or anything, her presentation was not as offputting as some people made it out to be

>>10547260
x2
>>10547266
>tend to support Latinos overall year round
This is just not true but I'm glad you're in a good online community

>>10547315
I did say in my personal experience and community, and that it is different for everyone else. I guess I just happen to be surrounded by decent people.

Lor posted a response. I think their friendship is over.

>>10547322

>>10547261
>People thinking pastels look better on pale skin
There was exactly one asshole who said this, and they were quickly shut down. Literally no one else thinks/says this, it flies in the face of color theory, it's objectively untrue. Just like oppressed groups don't want to be treated as a monolith, let's not use one bitch's bad take and extrapolate that "people" think this.

>>10547325

>>10547329

>>10547330

>>10547331
Posted on her twitter, link here: https://twitter.com/loveliestlor/status/1355969121029132288

>>10547326
I didn't mean people at large think that way, I just meant those are some of the few only real instances of racist opinions I would expect to be relevant to discussion in lolita

>>10547331
Wow. I hate both of them lmao.

>>10547335
Sooo basically Lor was thinking the same thing a lot of gulls were as far as Tyler infantilizing her and treating her like she needs protecting and didn't actually help Lor at all and Tyler is indeed a shitty friend who did this against her wishes and didn't actually care about what was good for her. Got it.

>>10547344
why?

The "blacklolitacommunity" IG posted this 1/3

>>10547355
2/3

>>10547357
3/3

I remember some gull in the previous (or this thread) saying "these guys don't speak for all black Lolitas" lmao

>>10547355
this as well

>>10547361
>I remember some gull in the previous (or this thread) saying "these guys don't speak for all black Lolitas" lmao

Just because someone is pretentious, popular, or self proclaims importance or relevance still doesn't mean they speak for all of us though.

White people really are just out here looking for excuses to get away with saying all black people are the same aren't they?

>>10547362
>‘the conversations that came out of tyler’s mouth is exactly what triggers yt radicalization’
ngl nothing makes me feel more “radicalized” than arrogant blacks talking down like this

>>10547218
Funny enough, I've donated a lot of money to Venezuelans because I play WoW, both virtual and real. Because they are part of the community, WoW players have become more closely involved with their lives and the injustice they face. The reason I bring this up is because people do gravitate towards talking about issues in their own countries and communities. People in Japan focus on Japanese issues, people in Ireland focus on Irish issues, etc. This is because you can make the most change locally. It wouldn't help if Americans started virtue signaling about South America because they would do little beyond imposing their own American hero-complex viewpoints. It's hard to be aware of all the injustice in the world when there is just SO much of it.
There's very little to be gained from diverting attention from this topic to say "what about THIS topic?" It just serves as a distraction, really. People aren't robots. We don't distribute these things evenly. Some injustice ends up being more "trendy" than others, though, and I agree that sucks.

>>10547367
I'm not even white first of all. I'm a brown skinned Latino.

Second I'm laughing because this group is literally out here saying "we represent the entire black Lolita community" and that any other black Lolitas are not "well-informed and will speak things that are accurately representative of the reoccurring issues black people generally face".

Although I agree that no one person can speak for any race. People are all different.

It's nuts that these folks are out here saying they are and people are listening to them.

>>10547361
These are one or some concerned/very sensitive or hypervigilant people, not everyone. Do you think Donald Trump despite being president before spoke for all Americans? Obviously not. People who run a community instagram or fb or zine or whatever run it because they took it upon themselves to do it and were the people who had the time or energy to do it, not because every black lolita in the fashion was contacted and polled and elected a representative. No matter how much someone claims to speak for all of us they literally can't and anyone who claims they do should be looked at with suspicion.

>>10547369

If some black people being mildly annoying is all it takes to unlock your racist tendencies, you were always racist the whole time.

>>10547352
They're just so fucking annoying and neither of them has really done anything to help anyone other than themselves. Great to see that social issues are still just a prop.

>>10547375
Ok not white but other races have negative stereotypes and thoughts about black people too (some black people have predjudices as well). Not being white doesn't mean the way you were talking couldn't be construed as you claiming/agreeing that the BLC account really does speak for all black lolitas when we told y'all we disagree dozens of times.

But yeah this group is wrong for claiming they speak for all of us and as >>10547376 said they are sus for trying to act like they do

>>10547361
make it make sense..... so some black lolitas aren’t “black enough” to be featured? woke enough? like is this a thin or lightskin sensitivity issue?? i am black and that is enough. do i have to be constantly educating others to be worthy of a feature or discussion? like who decided they’re the designated voice for all black lolitas?

>>10547369
>arrogant blacks

Uh oh, us negroes betta not git too uppity now, massah might get mad at us and come a swingin' wit his whip

>>10547390
I agree that this weird policing of who is allowed to be involved is more harmful to us than helpful. I could understand if it was just wanting to be conscious of colorism and weight or body type, and include at least some darker skinned, tall, and some plus sized black girls, but this whole weird "some black lolitas might have opinions but if theirs dissent from ours they are wrong so leave them out" is stupid and just exacerbates the issue of people not seeing us as individuals or the nuance and variation in the overall struggle or experience of being black in lolita.

>>10547388
> the way you were talking couldn't be construed as you claiming/agreeing that the BLC account really does speak for all black lolitas when we told y'all we disagree dozens of times.

Dude chill. I don't agree with them and sorry if it came off that way it wasn't my intention.

Again I just think it's funny they're trying to claim they represent all black people after folks kept saying they don't. Which they don't, but damn they just keep saying it and people keep reinforcing it.

>>10547404
Thanks for clarifying. Sorry, I guess hearing over and over from gulls about how the rest of us black lolitas owe it to them to denounce PM publicly or somehow more aggressively when we were all saying she was wrong and we shouldn't have to be involved has just frustrated me about the subject and made me a little too quick to assume when it's brought up that people are going on that whole train again.

>>10547409
Totally agree it shouldnt up to Black lolitas. I think all these larger Lolita influencers like Lor, need to stop giving them a fucking platform. The rest of us need to stop too.

>>10547362
>>10547361
>>10547357
>>10547355
Why make a black only Lolita community. They are alienating themselves by doing so. And these same black Lolitas who pretend to be so inclusive would crucify Latino, Native American, Asian, etc American minorities that made their own groups.

I swear the US is the only place where people are this stupid and entitled.

>>10547440
>how come they get to say black power but we can't say white power without them getting mad this is so unfair

>>10547063
you...probably shouldn't expose yourself like that on here

>>10547440
I am gonna go out in a limb here and say maybe they weren't trying to "create a black only community", I took it more as they see it as a (aside from her clearly overly woke stances on things and whatnot) space for black people who make up part of the greater lolita community to congregate and discuss things that might be specific to us like natural hairstyling tips, makeup techniques for black or dark skin tones, ways to make lolita work on common black body types (some of those being curvy, some being more athletic, etc), wearing chocolate prints in brown colorways without looking naked, etc. you know?

(The chocolate prints comment was a joke, plz laugh this thread is such a drag and so negative lol)

>skin-folk
I couldn't get past the second paragraph. This is actually nauseating.

We need to stop making our races and our genders our entire identity. "Othering" yourself or any group of people that isn't yourself is completely counter to the advancement of human society.

>>10547218
Because we're not talking about that right now? Lmao why do black lolitas have to fight for you? Talk about your own issues

omg I'm so tired of all of this... it's so easy to get caught up in taking any of this seriously, but then you remember that all of this started over an accidental like and it all becomes so fucking stupid
what's the point in cultivating online spaces for lolitas if at least half of us are constantly ready to throw hands with each other over nothing

>>10547470
Is she a lesbian? I really hate how wokesters have appropriated lesbian terms (and even the word itself lesbian, but thats a whole 'nother can of worms)

Femme and butch are exclusively lesbian terms.

>>10547470

There are good reasons for people of the same skin color or heritage to want to interact with one another like >>10547456 mentioned with hair and makeup, or for Asians for example we have cultural similarities in both traditional and pop culture that we can all relate to, among other things

The issue isn't minorities carving out spaces for ourselves, it's how hard it is keeping those spaces focused on actual productive things or positive experiences and not just an echo chamber of complaining and aggression.

>>10547479

It's not just for lesbians anymore. I think people use it as an LGBTQ+ sensitive term to refer to oneself as someone who is feminine presenting or identified.

>>10547326
I've hear that outside of lolita, that and blacks shouldn't wear red lipstick

>>10547487

Yeah in fashion in general there are weird assumptions some people have about black girls and women and it's weird.

>>10547486
TQ+ is clownery in itself so

>>10547478
>cultivating online spaces
I agree, anon.. I'm tired too. I'm not here to cultivate anything for anyone. I'm here to wear cute clothes from Japan. I couldn't care less about everything else. None of this is relevant. I close out social media as soon as I hit a "check your privilege" post. I'm so fucking done.

Life is so fucking short. I don't want to spend it experiencing fake, negative emotions and guilting myself into oblivion. My goal is just to be happy. Please get out of my mortal experience.

>>10547490

If you feel that way that's cool too, I was just explaining why someone who may not be a lesbian might be using the term femme in the context of current social justicey kind of rhetoric

>>10547484
I understand, it was just the word "skin-folk." It's gross to me that someone would create or use a word like this.

>>10547497
It is weird but I wouldn't go so far as to call it gross.

>>10547479
butch is originally a black lesbian term but you dont see white lesbians protecting the sanctity of that. also gay men have used femme for years. it literally means woman in french, moron

>>10547500
>butch is originally a black lesbian term but you dont see white lesbians protecting the sanctity of that.

different anon, but I just learned that from your post. wish white dykes was more creative at this point

>>10547501
Nayrt but for future reference a large amount of relatively modern slang and memes usually originate amongst gay black people and other poc, then trickle up to gay whites and regular black people and poc, and then the cishet white people start using it and it eventually stops being cool or new and the cycle repeats

>>10547502
yeah generally this is how it goes. that or it starts on here and there's a whole other pile of issues with the typical channer

>>10547501
both butch and stud came from black lesbian culture. radfems like OP love to not research anything about queer history and then kick up a fit when people don't automatically know what they've cooled up in their heads.

example: the "taking" of the term lesbian they are likely referring to is people who experience some form of attraction to men calling themselves lesbians, which was the norm up until the 1970s (white, mind you) lesbian sepratism movement. lesbian not just being a blanket term for "woman who likes women" is new, and most of the people who are pushing back are old queers who don't want to change their language for uppity 19 year olds on twitter

>>10547335
I feel sorry for Tyler, she shoudn't have done this video for Lor cause it was pointless. Lor is so woke and so up in these sjws asses, that she doesn't even mind getting stoned by them.
Like Tyler came from a reasonable point of view, and for Lor this whole thing 2 weeks ago was a woke spiritual experience lol

>>10547508
>i feel sorry for tyler
im pretty sure tyler managed to say something dumb as shit from every single angle, so im not sure why anyone would feel bad for her at this point

>>10547500
> you dont see white lesbians protecting the sanctity of that

yeah, but why would them actually?

>>10547509
at least she can go back to her original salty style without asskissing anybody from now on, its not like the twitter retards can track who is watching her anyways

>>10547014
Was present for the original post. I appears that a screen cap was sent to Lor privately pretty quick after its posting, but it was someone else in the original thread that took the drama fuel to post straight to drama groups. That’s what made this blow up to begin with.

>>10547492
>I close out social media as soon as I hit a "check your privilege" post. I'm so fucking done.

mte this whole ordeal has been great for showing me whose ig stories i should mute

>>10547561
and this is why we can't have nice things

>>10547564
I haven’t get to follow many black lolitas so far, but I consider unfollowing. When being reminded of how much things I owe black people, it feels better not taking anything at all.

Why doesn’t anyone make a new thread?

>>10547361

I honestly felt a little sick reading this email. I'm sure Lor gave permission or whatever but it's like if my condescending professor who thought my take was entirely wrong because I left out one clarifying adjective decided to put his criticism of me in front of the whole class to shame me. This really should have been private, it's so nitpicky and singularly visioned that all it's doing is piling on the woke wagon.

>>10547390

This is literally what white people did to native americans but now a few black people decide they're the arbiters of who's black. Barf.

>>10547218
The american media does this 100% on purpose, and has always done this. Every single war or regime change the us government has been behind, the media has backed up with lies. The exact same woke media that praise blm and spew out shit about equality. They are all mouthpieces for the American government's endless wars and interventions.

>>10547470
Jesus, half of this is SJW newspeak. It really is a cult.

>>10547236
>Completely clueless about us intervention in foreign politics
>"Latinx"
This is why I hate social justice bots

>>10547598
>This is literally what white people did to native americans
Please elaborate?

>>10547094
as a Midwestern Lolita, can confirm about half of my local comm is Republican

>>10547218
you can always tell when someone is white because they use "latinx"

>>10547362
yikes

>>10547259
Additionally, the U.S.'s lax gun laws are where cartels are getting their weapons, it's been noted that the reason the cartels became so organized was because the U.S. deported latino gang members who then used their knowledge of gang operation in the U.S. to form their own gangs in Central America (this has particularly been show in the Northern Triangle countries), not to mention U.S. intervention in their domestic politics during the Cold War which led to mass killings, distrust in government, weakened central governments, corruption etc.... add on top of that that the U.S. is the largest consumer of recreational drugs in the world, aka a huge market... and we end up here

>>10547446
No I specifically said Asians and Latinx and Native Americans. Please be more defensive.

>>10547440
US-Americans care too much about seeing the differences in people. I get it can be nice to celebrate your own heritage and they feel a sense of pride in their ethnic cultures, but as long as they keep doing this, they will keep having these divisions in their lolita community (which seeps its way into the global community!) and in their whole country's culture. They do not have 1 U.S. culture because they are too busy seeing each other's differences and so that becomes their focus.

>>10547626
People are like that because the American media encourages division. They don't know about south American issues because the media doesn't talk about it. But the media is sure to talk about stuff like "latinx" so that's all they know, and consider themselves educated on the issues.

>>10547614
>Latinx
Western woke people still don't realize we have a general term to refer to Latin people, it's L A T I N O.

Stop trying to shoeshorn your made up words onto us.

>>10547626
Or maybe we don't have 1 us culture because so many people immgirated from so many different places and each state has totally different natural and social and cultural environments that affect how everyone experiences being from the US as a whole? It's a ridiculously huge country filled with people from a wide variety of places. Of course there isn't really one culture. The UK is like that too, with pockets of different ethnic groups that have their own culture or traditions or whatever. I like the whole salad bowl melting pot thing and everyone being able to be the same as American while retaining what gives them some individuality. Yes hyper focusing on division is bad but when latino countries can't even stop treating dark or black latinos and indigenous people in particular like second class citizens y'all really aren't one to talk.

Every country has shitty aspects of its people and government and problems and the problems are bigger than just choosing not to see color or whatever.

Wow I'm rly starting to think Latino culture is blaming America for all our problems

>>10547641
Latino refers to a single male from Latin America. Don't be so dense, dumdum. It's a hassle to write latinas and Latinos or latinas / os every time, so x saves us time.

Short answer: waawaa the x letter is scaring meee and I don't understand languages waawaa

>>10547648
I think the issue is that Latinx is sometimes seen as dismissive of Latin culture because our language is gendered and that is part of how we communicate, removing that just cause some white washed American born SJWs said to feels silly for people who have been talking this way our whole lives.

>>10547210
lol of course not

>>10547648
It can mean both retard, depending on the context.

>t. stupido

For those asking who's running the Blacklolitacommunity IG, they are doing a live right now. Not sure who this is?

>>10547648
I'm keking so hard right now, holy shit. Clearly you've never taken a single Spanish class in your life.

>>10547362
>very valid concerns
>made Lor apologize for Slav squatting
Yeah, okay lol

>>10547664
Idk but around the time I tuned in she said she was older cause people had mentioned her birthday, like around Lor's age. Old enough that I take her a bit more seriously and see her less as a young person blinded by wokeness and an older person who while maybe misguided has a real reason for her feelings and has been through more.

>>10547664
Her name is Amber and she said she is one of multiple admins for this page and the corresponding fb page

>>10547218
Ugh los gringos are so fucking ignorant that don't know about how they trained militars and fucking dictators to fight diferent guerrillas with guns that the CIA itself gifted :^)

>>10547473
Spoken like a true american pig. Your race doesnt erase the privilige you own thanks to classism and imperialism.

>>10547648
lxs estudiantxs necesitan estudiar más porque no queremos que sean estúpidxs como Anon

how would you even pronounce the x in all of that anon? 4real?

>>10547697
She honestly made a lot of valid points tonight. Partnered with the fact that Lor herself on twitter said she didn't want Tyler's video, it honestly makes me agree with the black lolitas and Lor far more than Tyler. Her video gave me a weird vibe and all of my concerns were covered.

>>10547473
That's why people don't bother about the black lolitas outside of the US. You don't see Asians posting about this bs right, they're based and don't give a shit about this stupid drama.

>>10547718

Asian here. Can confirm. There's secret Chinese comms in my area that use WeChat to communicate.

>>10547712
And your race doesn't erase how you treat black and brown people of the same culture as you like shit in your countries and all the rich privileged Latinas are the white ones so stfu

>>10547724
Asians also didn't do anything wrong so they have no real reason to post about it anyway. I have never really even met a younger Asian person that was racist, they stay in their lane and mind their business so no one really has much reason to be mad. A lot of the racism is older people or people who are ignorant/living in Asia so their lack of exposure to things outside of where they live is understandable, and western born Asians are usually chill. Maybe white people should take a page from that book and mind their own business too and stop being so sensitive and mad about shit.

>>10547649
It also just shows you the priorities of the American social justice idiots. They don't know anything about their government interfering in south america or anywhere else in the world, something which affects millions of people, but they sure as hell know to throw that "x" into a word that never had it to pander to some tiny minority of people in their own country who told them it's important. Then they can feel good about themselves because they are up to date on the issues they've been told are important by other americans.

>>10547561
And the person who spread it locked down her Twitter and all other social media accounts which is fine by me because she was an annoying try hard shit stain.

>>10547717

Yeah I found Amber's video kind of refreshing (girl needs to take notes on what she plans to say so she uses less filler words like "um" all the time though lol), in that she wasn't just calling someone racist or mean, but trying to explain how Tyler did take a lot of stuff out of context and was really mocking and inconsiderate with the situation when most people talking to Lor were people who knew her and were operating in good faith. I think seeing people's faces along with their words can really help us be more sympathetic to what they're saying and not assume the worst.

>>10547730
I mean I think it's fine and makes sense to be considerate of people who are around you. But it's also important to take into consideration people further away and care about them, too.

If we all just had a little more kindness and decency toward each other instead of lashing out things could be resolved a lot easier. As a Latina I know we are often hotheaded (call it a stereotype if you want but I know my family and friends are often like that) and quick to defend ourselves and culture and those we care for but we don't have to be angry at people for their ignorance, we can just offer the chance to educate them and encourage them to do better. I personally always do better with positive reinforcement and reminders, I think other people can improve how they communicate and interact that way too.

>>10547732
Who was it?

I'm desperate to know if it is who I think it might be.

>>10547730
This isn't even a general American SJW thing; really it's largely just white SJWs that use "latinx"... on the few occasions that they remember there are more than just white and black people living in this country.

But yeah, I get that they want to score woke points with the they/them crowd, but it'd be nice if they'd ask latinos "hey, is there a word we can use to refer to y'all as a group?" before just coming in and trying to force assimilation to their preferred "woke" label without even considering that it's not even compatible with the language.

>>10546579
It begins.

>>10547732
Was it the person who made unfunny memes?

>>10547094
I’ll tell you this about Republican lolitas, we take care in hiding our beliefs. I know some from the AZ Comm.

Anybody cares to make a new thread?

>>10547764
good, stay hidden no one likes you lot

what does wf and co and want truly? of course people are going to like your posts about bigots. i thought you wanted awareness and accountability.

>>10547832 this is generally how social media works, it sucks but i dont get why people are constantly surprised

>>10547845
don’t have the other caps it was probably deleted from her twitter, but the thread she made was indicating how upset she was because her social justice posts about racism etc are doing numbers better than her fashion posts...then she followed up with this

>>10547847
samefag but yeah both of them are upset that their sj posts and rants are getting more notes and shares than their coordinates. Two peas in a pod.

>>10547733
>operating in good faith
Yeah, I'd rather not have any friends than have people like MC. A real friend would have helped Lor privately, not make a call out in front of everybody.
Also most sjws just hopped on the trend hoping that she will be cancelled, good faith my ass.
This whole thing is so boring already, I just wanna unfollow everybody who still keep posting about this on SM. Don't tell me people like IVB really cares about this, her most important problem is that when can she drink wine next time.

>>10547847
>>10547849
maybe she should try learning how to coord better and look less aggressively ugly or something boo hoo

>>10547215
>while these Americans tear themselves apart. It doesn't matter how inclusive these people claim to be, United States has a history of looking down on third world citizens
Honestly I feel there is some truth to this. Altrough it's always more nuanced than a 4chan comment, USA seems to have the worst racism, the most care about being "a foreigner" talking that as an insult, the most pushing on inclusivity to the point of ignoring reality. etc. Not saying other countries are always good and nice, but the USA seems to be more extreme in all sides of it.

>>10547847
I have nothing but annoyance and hate to people complaining on social media they're so ugly and no one reposts their outfits because of that. Sounds like nothing put trying to trow a pity party, wanting people to tell you how good and not ugly you are.

So, maybe that's why people don't react to that? Because they don't like winey bitches. Improve instead of wine and and get noticed...

>>10547890
I know it seems like the USA has the worst racism because of media and some pockets are bad, but don't forget that the racism here was brought by the Europeans who immigrated. Mostly the Brits and all. I have a friend from the south who moved to the UK (she's white) and noted how it's ridiculously bad there too, but everyone pretends that it isn't because there are fewer black people and claims "well at least we aren't America"

>>10547728
I live on a country with 30% of poor people included myself and with less of %1 of black ppl idk what you are talking about. And white latina doesnt exist, everyone has indigenous blood. But well go off with your american shitty mentality, You are still part of a country worst than the nazis and the urss together.

>>10547764
nah i feel like i could pretty easily guess who’s a republican in az comm.

>>10547847
> why does no one like my fashion posts where i look miserable and only likes my posts ab race
> it must be bc im ugly, just kidding im making going to make this about race too

>>10547890
we been knew ab institutional racism, the only people who disagree have been living in their own ignorant bubble or are in denial and ask you to "prove racism exists" and think racism ended with the civil rights act
it's generally better in urban areas of the country because those areas have more diversity and better access to education, so people are less likely to be ignorant idiots

>>10547928
nayrt they're trying to say that colorism is still a thing in maaany countries. even in places where there's mostly one ethnicity, you still see beauty standards favor lighter skin over darker skin a lot of the time. if you're confused, racism isn't the same as colorism, but race is a social construct that was founded in the principles of colorism (to justify the oppression and genocide of non whites)

>>10548027
You are just as ignorant as those people desu, here you go again spouting off exactly what the media told you is really important and thinking you're educated on the "real" issues

>>10548030
And here you are explaining to other people how racism works in their country.. baka

>>10548038
i literally said colorism not racism and I'm stating common knowledge, it's not my problem if you weren't educated and you don't get it

>>10547847
>10547847
she's still saying this shit? like stfu we get it you're ugly

>>10547440
Why? So that we have a place to be able to talk about stuff that white folks can’t understand, or without being railroaded by other minorities and white people.
Like our thoughts on this, hair management, makeup tips that work for darker skin, dress shades that will look best on us and so on.

I honestly love having a group separate from the general online comm. y’all always end up showing your asses like this then try and play that “why do they do this see this wouldn’t happen if...” bullshit.
We felt excluded and so we rectified it. Blame yourselves.

>>10547928
>white latina doesnt exist, everyone has indigenous blood.
Not this again. No, you're not fucking indigenous if you don't even know what you are.