/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

As a non profit organization, having a board, voting members, ect... they had an obligation to reasonably look out for the attendees and future of this dying convention. Hold them accountable.

There is a wealth of information available for an investigation. Minutes of every word spoken at every board and voting member meeting. A secret forum with thousands of posts used by all of staff. These are the kinds of things that can be forced public if (and likely when) Otakorp finishes failing.

Honestly I think it’s time to let Otakon die and just let another better run con take its place, we’ll all be better for it.

>>9680556
Even if it just dies, the people that caused this mess are staff at other major cons and friends with decision makers. While they only have actual pull at Otakon, they'd try to move up at another con if they lost it... place blame elsewhere and pull the friendship strings. I don't want to see guys like that have a real opportunity to fuck up another con.

>>9680769
So our options are keep otakon on life support or let other cons end up like it?

>>9680769
Why don’t you name names and we can try to get these incompetent people removed from staff at all cons?

>>9680858
>>>9680769
>Why don’t you name names and we can try to get these incompetent people removed from staff at all cons?

This is probably the best option.
Convention staffing is extremely nepotistic. I.e. You're supposed to gofer for a while then become staff, but if you know someone inside you can bypass that completely (this is probably the least nepotistic aspect).

There was the "jen pass" debacle that they discourage people from talking about. From what I hear she is still staffing.

They probably staff at other conventions. If they're not on B.O.D. yet then they'll probably be gunning for it.

Organization of DC this year was a shit show, they generally chalk it up to "it's the first year in DC we're going through adjustments"

I haven't staffed Animenext, when they moved to Atlantic city did all the logistics get fucked? (idk but they've moved before Somerset)

It appears that the only places talking about this is cgl and crunchyroll(which got hacked)

>>9680912
DNS hijacking. Is the virus a randomware?

Otakon screwed themselves into thinking they need to create Otakon Vegas when they failed to tend to attendance in Baltimore. Moving to DC from Baltimore was the right decision (Baltimore is becoming crime ridden again), but the transition to DC is expensive. Hotels are expensive and so is convention space.

However, Otakon is not going to die.

The worst that can happen is AX buys Otacorp and is renamed AX East.

>>9681354
>randomware
and, yeah it is.

>>9681359
>AX buys Otacorp and is renamed AX East

I’d actually love this. AX runs their reg a lot more smoothly than Otakon does currently.

>>9680530
Can confirm all of this. AA and Dealers are also being opened early, in order to grab as much cash as possible this year before their next round of payments are due. This is not good money management and I'd be surprised if they can make it through 2019 or even 2018 with this attitude. The board has made terrible decision after terrible decision for nearly half a decade now.

>>9681359

Ota Vegas was never because they thought they could get attendance or to throw a good show. It's been a paid vacation for chosen high up staff for ages.

>>9680556

If ota survives, the worst of the idiots will take the claim and nothing will change. It's time for Ota to fade away.

>>9681401

With no discussion of if they can't make it to 2018 how they will refund those people, of course.

Also on the table is revoking free rooms for staff - good luck throwing a con with no staffers around.

>>9681359

Here is your redpill about Otakon Vegas

The planners pretty much ignored the reality on the ground plus all the input they had received from people familiar with Vegas. More to the point, they assumed what worked with the original Otakon would also work with Vegas, nnnnnnnnope.

All the major issues with Otakon Vegas stem from this very stupid mistake.

>>9681392

AX never went into deb--

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-02-03/exclusive/anime-expo-2010-lost-us%241.2-million-idg-to-boost-involvement-in-2012

>>9681429
>>9681359
IIRC after the first year of major loss with Otakon Vegas, the rep signed a contract for future years without first consulting the powers that be, thus locking them in.

According to their 2015 pie chart, Vegas bleeds 8% of their total budget.

>>9681463

The rep and others excused away the poor Year 1 performance as being a bunch of huckleberries that got rolled by those greedy Vegas folks

Some of us know better

>>9681463
"cost of doing business"
It's a private business but I would still LOVE to see a breakdown

>>9681408
>>>9681359
>Ota Vegas was never because they thought they could get attendance or to throw a good show. It's been a paid vacation for chosen high up staff for ages.

I wondered why they had comped hotels for staffers for the monthly meetings. You can attend virtually with some go to meeting app but for some reason ppl need to go in person as well. I'm thinking the vacation hypothesis is correct.

>>9681429
Maybe with enough Stephen Paddock cosplays they'll shut down OtaVegas faster than they shut down the 4chan panel after the great weeaboo paddling incident.

>>9680858
Just go to the Otakon site and pull the staff listing and look at the BoD, there's your answer.

On the subject of how the con can be so bad with money... besides the money pit that is Ota Vegas? Ask about outreach trips and how you need 17 people to be outreach staff at cons like Neko? No shit you run out of money when you're throwing out free trip money to you and your friends hand over fist with no accountability.

>>9681450
AX is still running a massive debt. Their books from like 2015 were released and they were in the red by like 400k. The only reason the IRS hasn't come after them is they're running on "deferred income" which prolly suits IDG just fine. They like AX to run at a loss because they can use it as tax write off.

>>9681625

Don't they send department heads of things like Tech and Security to Japan for "networking"? The only people who need to go to Japan are the ones scouting for guests. Unless it's just a free vacation, of course.

It's a shame that they lost so much attendance in the DC move -- from the threads here, I know that there were plenty of people who skipped it to see if the new venue would be any good, and then there was pretty solid consensus that the new venue was good and probably better than Baltimore. If they had cash reserves to ride out this year, Otakon 2018 should have seen an attendance bounce-back. As it is, I'm worried that lack of cash means they wont be able to get good guests, which would depress attendance and counteract the "people coming back after the test run in the new venue" effect.

As a con-goer, I think the best thing that could happen would be for Otakon to get bought (or have its contracts get bought) by one of the better private cons, to impose fiscal discipline and to provide funds to hire more industry guests. The non-profit team has brought this team a long way, but it might be time to put the team in better hands.

I think there's one solution that Otakon can do to increase attendance for 2018...

...have Goku Sanchez DJing at the rave. (￣ー￣)

>>9681834
No the Japan trip is pretty much on the up and up. It's the American cons where it seems to be a free for all in terms of expenses and unaccountability. No one submits any trip reports so it's anyone's guess and to where and how the money is being spent and for its proper purposes.

>>9681946
They said the Japan trip is funded by the Japanese government as part of a cultural exchange program, if anything they're scamming the Japanese government.

>>9681974
I don't know what "they" told you, but that's a bunch of bullshit. The Japanese government is not involved. The trip has nothing to do with nor involves the government. That's a preposterous claim.

>>9682279
From the email sent out (only greentexting beginning) :

>The Embassy of Japan has reached out to Otakorp regarding opening the selection process for its Japan's Friendship Ties Program to Otakon Staff who the meet the participation requirements as described below.

>The Kakehashi Project, or Japan's Friendship Ties Program, is one of the Government of Japan's many people-to-people exchange programs. In January 2018 the program will be sending a small group of Americans to Japan for about 10 days in an effort to deepen their understanding of Japan and allow them to interact with the Japanese people at a grassroots level. The theme of this trip is "Japanese Pop Culture".

>The Japanese government will cover almost all costs for this trip. Individuals selected for this program will only be responsible for transportation to their home airport, and any personal shopping they wish to do in Japan. Please note that if selected you will be traveling on a prearranged itinerary, and you are expected to participate in all activities that are scheduled as part of the program.

They have the requirements listed afterwards and a link to the application on the staff site.

>>9682517
>>9682279

I found a link to a Japanese government site, haven't delved too deep but it seems to have been started or done in 2013
https://www.jpf.go.jp/e/project/intel/archive/youth/kakehashi/

>>9681463
The sad part is the powers that be mostly wanted the lock in and were consulted. They pushed the vote, in spite of a fair amount of logical resistance that is documented in meeting minutes, over 70 unhappy forum response by concerned staff to the immediate results of Otakon 2015 (visible to staff only,) ect. They were selective with what they brought to be discussed before voting members, and gave a very bias pitch while doing behind the scenes work to push votes. Powers that be were why that horrible deal got the "until 2018 treatment."

>>9682517
And if you'll do a cursory reading you'll notice this invitation is for 2018? I'm looking at my calendar and it's still 2017. Otakon goes to Japan generally twice a year, in October for TIMM/TIFF and in March/April for Anime Japan. These are trips by the guests team and not funded by the Japanese government.

There are many places where Otakon has mismanaged its money and deserves critique, but grabbing at straws only muddies the water and makes it harder to address the real problems.

>>9682693

From what I remember, the logic was it would be a bigger bleedout to cut and run from Vegas. The idea was that by 2018 Otakon Vegas would be dialed in (which it is) but the problem is dealing with the awful contract from the initial deal.

Not happy the Vegas lawyer is practically invisible.

>>9681834
>Don't they send department heads of things like Tech and Security to Japan for "networking"?
Why does security and tech ops need to go to Japan for networking? Now that Otakon is in DC proper, these two department heads could network and consult with local agencies and tech firms on the "how to" of their jobs.

DC is one of the best places in the nation to get help with understanding both of these fields.

Sounds like someone didn't get what they wanted ...here is a tissue

>>9687748
>Sounds like someone didn't get what they wanted
A convention in 2019?

Been going to otakon for quite a while and I am pretty sure it will be around in 2019.

This just sounds like a staffer who did not get something they wanted and trying to make the con look bad with bad opinions at that.

>>9688732

There's multiple people in this thread all confirming the money problems

Unfortunately not unusual for a con..been quite a few like that ..and they are still around..plus since this is a non profit anyone can look up the records..its public info.

>>9688732
If a con has to be seeking a loan of 500k just to make it to the point they can get registration open early to try keep the lights on and from a con that used to have savings heading towards seven figures, that's not bad blood, that's a financial disaster in progress. But the attitude to blame it on sour grapes certainly does typify a number of Ota staffers' blade attitude towards the magnitude of this problem.

Instead of posting here, why not post to the Otakon Message board for staff?

Posting here would be like Martin Luther posting his 95 Theses to the door of the local tavern instead of the church door

>>9689262
>But the attitude to blame it on sour grapes certainly does typify a number of Ota staffers' blade attitude towards the magnitude of this problem.

So true. After the price hikes and reg fiasco the year before, 2015 saw a massive 7,000 person drop in attendance, which with any other con should trigger a serious look into what is going wrong. instead Otakon officially blamed the bad numbers not on any of their own problems but on the Baltimore protests that had occurred months prior.

>>9691420

>2015 saw a massive 7,000 person drop in attendance

Gee, I wonder why that was...

>>9691420

The numbers were crunched, the biggest drops came from A. Younger members (under 21) and B. Members from Maryland and adjoining states.

So Sherlock, what would you deduce from the biggest drops coming from people living under parental controls within broadcast distance of Baltimore TV stations?

>>9692376
>>9692373
Pppsstt, Otakon staff, it's usually not a good idea to selfpost so blatantly on CGL.

>>9692373
>>9692376

Baltimore has been an absolute shithole since the beginning and it never stopped Ota's growth until recently. I remember back when almost everything in the inner harbor closed over the weekend because anyone with any money was only there for work and sat/sun we're Homeless Hobo time. The protests we're over and done with long before otakon rolled around and even then, the city was still safer than it was back in '04, '05.

But sure, blame it on those dang locals and not the fact that while other cons take every chance they can to improve year over year and run their organizations like businesses, Otakon sits fat and happy on their smug self-confidence and treats their budget like a trust fund for fun times. People have better options and it wasn't worth paying for a hotel room when they used to have their parents drop them off when that money could go to any other East Coast con

>>9688957
Well over a million dollars above the cost of running 2018 has been mismanaged away.Anyone that says that's someone not getting their way is probably damage control defending the situation.

>>9692800
This. My friends group has been going to Otakon for years and almost all of them bailed after the shitty price hike and staff treatment. The protests had nothing to do with it.

Anyone that doubts the seriousness of this Crisis and attended the last Otakon is invited to the 4 Points Hotel by Sheradon at 4101A Island Ave, Philadelphia, PA 19153.

The budget meeting is the 18th and the 19th of November, this weekend. The staff frowns upon members attending meetings, but the non profit set up guarantees you the right to be present to everything but the closed doors BoD meeting. Bring some friends that attended, take meticulous notes. Give an interview to Kotaku after you're enlightened beyond rejecting the existing crisis as real. The budget crisis is very real and you can come see it first hand. It's actually a bit worse than discussed on this thread.

BTW. There's plenty of staff that don't even know the meeting location yet. Why is that 4 days from the meeting? Hmmm. Why wasn't it announced when the meeting room block for the hotel expired November Seventh and was brokered early November? It's almost like the controlling staff doesn't want the rest of us to attend or even have the discount incentive to do so.

It was well-known in circles that this would be the last year of Ota Vegas. This speeds it up.

>>9693611
Vegas is still happening no matter what. It isn't speeding anything up. It is Vegas that sped up the loss of rainy day funds. Vegas was so counter productive that it's played a role in hurting actual Otakon.

It'll be interesting to see if someone gets hit hard with litigation from this. I know the staff have to sign NDAs. They try to keep this kind of information swept under that rug

>>9693690

All of it is pretty general and could be anyone on the inner circle. Even if there were NDA's, the likelyhood of anyone taking legal action on general statements made for one of many people in a group wouldn't be worthwhile. If they started posting financial documents or definite classified info with very specific details and pinpoint accuracy, then you might see something happen.

Expect an inner witch to try to shut this down. They've fired people before who tried to put this out there.

>>9693948
>>9693690
I knew about most of this, and I don't even know anyone on Otakon staff. Con staff communities on the East Coast are pretty insular, and a lot of people at the con I staff for have had a front row seat to Otakon's mismanagement for years. This isn't news to most of us, and it'd be near impossible for Otakon to track down who spilled the beans to CGL vs who spilled the beans before this.

>>9693636
Why can't they just kill Vegas if it's bleeding money? It doesn't seem like the head organizers know what they're doing. I'd rather have one competently run con than two shambling along to their graves.

>>9696348
Supposedly cancelling vegas would lose them even more money

>>9680530
How the fuck does one of the biggest anime convention organizations make enough bad decisions to end up $500k+ in debt? If what you're saying is true (and I'm not doubting the legitimacy, I know how stupid people can be), shouldn't they have realized after running a convention at a $100k loss that maybe they should dial it back and play it safe to pay off the debt instead of going forward with more risky ventures?

An NPO (especially without wealthy donors) shouldn't be making decisions like they're a fucking investment firm. I know that and I'm a layman in finance. What kind of morons did they hire to handle their accounting and finances?

>>9696348
>>9696377
They locked in a contract for the venue, iirc

>>9680532

This is hopelessly naive.

Look up how often nonprofits get investigated.

The answer is incredibly rarely.

>>9696398

The leadership of Otakon is a bunch of old school weebs who ended up in charge because they stuck around the longest. There's no qualifications other than putting up with other shitty dumb weebs and showing up.

There are no NDAs

It's sad that Otakon 25 is going to suck so much. How will they do anything cool when they are bleeding money?

>>9693302

I'm a staffer and even I don't wanna drive to Philly. That hotel is stuck in the 1980s and not in a good way.

>>9696587
Not particularly, lot of smart folks on staff, too smart to take leadership positions.

>>9696401
Otakorp got fukken ROLLED by the venue in Vegas. The person who negotiated the contract is thankfully gone.

>>9697583
Don't write off Otakon Prime just yet.

I can't wait for Katsucon to take over as the leading DC/MD/VA con

Katsucon should Japanese seiyuu showing up in February in 2018.

>>9681622
The what incident? What happened there?

The people who did the horrible vegas contract are still there sadly.

>>9698185

This was waaaaaay back in the day, someone actually scheduled a 4Chan panel when it was still largely anime-centric, and it turned into a shit show.

>>9698677
One of the main architects was uninstalled.

1. President of Otakorp getting schooled by the financial baldy about Otakorp not bidding most contracts.

2. Most reasonable suggestions for budget alterations being shot down in the name of convenience. We "needed" to keep a lot of things that make life easier. "Needed" to not lower some numbers. Other numbers were readily knocked down. Otakorp sure has a hard time recognizing the difference between entitlements we're used to and necessities.

3. Small money making ideas were given huge time. Example. Tiers for membership giving people who pay ten or twenty more bucks the right to line cut. Thank god for the idea that a hundred people can pay ten more bucks to "save Otakon from being a dinosaur." Yeah, we gotta get that one thousands dollars. Good ninty minutes of discussion there.

4. Two good discussion points were obliterated by loud voices and focused bullying from opposition. Post shut down apologies make everything okay.

5. The pace was slow until 7:30 pmish. Suddenly, it's a rush to go at throats and suggest ridiculous ideas.

6. Good choice to get rid of voting staff two per room instead of 4 per room rooms. The President and Con Chair voted to keep two to a 4 person room with Otakorp footing the bill. Amazing that they didn't want to sacrifice comfort when 4 to a room makes more sense in a financial crisis and literally cuts that expense in half for Otakorp.

7. Gophers almost hit the chopping block. Staff considered putting forth a motion to get rid of Hotel Rebates. This turned into can we double cheaper goodie bags to justify taking away the rebates? Matt seemed to think we should tell Gophers the rebates will now be a year past when they work. Gopher who paid full admission, be our slave and be forced to come back and do it again for the previous years rewards. Infinite slavery motivation. Pretty bold when we're struggling to keep the doors open for 2018.

8. Otakorp is going forward in the red and rolling the dice. We had the ability to put more time into fixing the budget, but decided it's better to handle it in the future and procrastinate? Sounds about right.

This is a numbered list of the highlights of the weekend budget meeting. Would have gotten to it sooner if life weren't hectic.

>>9700635
>Most reasonable suggestions for budget alterations being shot down in the name of convenience.

I would loooove to hear the details on this one. Was sending high level staff on free con vacations all year one of these necessary expenses?

>>9700635
Lee Fenner is without a doubt the worst thing to ever happen to Otakorp. He's done more damage to it and its reputation than the Baltimore riots ever could.

>>9700635
>4. Two good discussion points were obliterated by loud voices and focused bullying from opposition. Post shut down apologies make everything okay.
And those points were?

This really sounds like Otakon is kicking the can down the road without realizing the cliff is a few hundred feet away.

Another fake ass SJW who wants to hear themself talk. Who cares. I bet the first 3-4 posts are all by the same person who was probably fired from their lil staffer job at Otakon lol

Ohhh you're worried you'll get blacklisted? God fobid you can't work at an anime con, oh no! Lol, umm no, its more like you could get sued for slandering a buisness.

These forums are nothing but drama now. I though CGL was to talk about cosplay??

>>9699191
You mean the Yotsuba Society panel at Katsucon?

Few people attended it because it was shoved in the early morning.

>>9701782
Hello Ota-Knight. GL suing an anon. We will laugh when that goes public. Ota staff threatens constant litigation but unless they are able to successfully keep it under gag order it will blow up a lot if they were able to find the source then sue them.

>>9701782
It would be libel, not slander. It's written. It also has to be untrue to qualify, which doesn't seem to be the case.

>>9681628
Their assets and liabilities is actually positive according to their last tax documents. Positive 500k, compared to -200k from the year before. Total revenue 8 mil up from 5.5 mil. Their costs went up but revenue up more. It took six years to unfuck things after Lattanzio

>>9696398
Really easily actually. Lattanzio burned 1 mil of AX's money in one year's time. They had a surplus before him

>>9700635
Eh as someone who staffs several smaller southern and northeastern cons, the year out rebate thing is pretty common, it isn't unfair, (I pushed that idea so that might have been my guy)

How did the staff let this happen?

>>9704686
One decison at a time. Most staff aren't voting members

Well of you have such issues with the con than just leave. There is nothing stopping you .
You have already made comments as to how the con should just die and its so evil ..JUST LEAVE ..do not staff or anything anymore ..pretty simple ..grow some balls.

>>9705494
Illogical cuck is illogical. Defend the hive cuck.

Seems like it’s a sinking ship. Does anyone have any knowledge that things are better than what others are posting? I hope it’s not really this awful.

>>9706467
there's at least a couple of staffers on both sides who have posted in this thread. on one side you have people confirming that shit is going sideways. on the other you have people attacking the messenger and not bothering to attempt to sugarcoat the situation. whoever handles pr should be lying out of their teeth and denouncing the leak. even calling it "fake news" would be a step in the right direction.

it's probably that bad.

Sounds like more proof is needed. Otherwise fake news.

>>9707046
>>9705494
>>9701782
>>9692373
>>9692376
Head-in-sand otakon staffers, go home.

>>9706509
>>9707046
See, was that that hard?

>>9706509

You forgot the the staffer in the middle who at least posts pics

>>9688732

Not only did Otakon for 19 years, actually staffed it. You'd find my name in all the program books, and not just as security staff. In fact, I was President one year.

I walked away when the Vegas shit started. Key leadership people thought they were big enough fish to make hotels in Vegas cut deep discounts because it was off season. Unbeknownst to them, I'd killed the idea years earlier when a friend came to me to have us do it. The reason was simple: there weren't enough boots on the ground in Vegas to run the show, so it would be a drain on people running prime.

I don't know what the actual budget numbers were, and my attempts to find out were all met with "they don't know yet" replies, which tracks with the first time one of them pissed me off by not being willing to answer the question "So if the bills come in where we expect them to (no damages for BCC) how much money do we expect to have in the bank?"

The math for this year is pretty simple. They were short at least 7,000 people. Multiply that by the membership money and that's how much they needed in the rainy day fund, which was already being depleted, 100K/yr for 4 years before that. So figure they were 700K short on their budget numbers (and no, they can't make it up on dealers/industry/artist space because those numbers are worked into the budget projection). Oh, and on that point they broke the first rule of budgeting the real old foggies set down after the first time Otakon lost money (it was actually a private corp back then, not an NPO): Never budget for attendance growth; always budget based on last year's attendance, although you can adjust for dues increases.

So yes, whether or not they will be around in 2019 is a serious question. So is whether or not they will be there next year, promises not withstanding.

And yes, the reason I walked away was I saw this coming and knew there was nothing I could do to stop it.

>>9689063
It is for Otakon. Only time previously a deficit was run was 2nd year when it was a 24-hr 4 day con. Deficit was around 5K which some of our staff were able to float on personal credit cards. Third year left a surplus and it didn't run a deficit through at least year 19.

That’s sounds crazy! How long have they been in the red? How has this much money disappeared? Otakon is one of the most expensive cons and they even started charging extra for concerts this year! How do they not have money?

>>9707412

>>9707338
>>9701003
>>9700635
>>9693636
>>9691420
>>9681625
>>9681463

massive mismanagement and a culture that rewards it

>>9707338
I can't wait to talk to them again as the top people would go around the country talking about how their con is pure gold. They can now get shut down as this proves they're a golden turd from mismangement. I hope they become a lot more humble until they finally get back in the black.

>>9707419
very high chance that they think "it's not my/our fault; we did everything right!" or "it was up to things that we cannot control/bad luck"

Things are much worse than anyone here is posting. They might not even make it to 2018.

Otakon is not the only con in that boat. It stinks because home con was in growing pains and had to go big venue as there was nothing else. So now home con is floating on saved money for few years and unless the attendance grows... we will be out of the game as well.

>>9707412
The answers are posted in the thread. When we started out, we ran a shoe string budget. For the first con the founders went to the local super market to buy on-sale snacks for the con suite. Initially we paid for our own hotel rooms. We never paid for guests. When we did start comping staff rooms (because as staff pointed out they were effectively paying $600-$1000 for the weekend to work), we did the standard con overpacking of hotel rooms (8 people to a room). As we made more money we worked our way to legal on the room rate. Eventually work organizing the rooms became too much, and we started reimbursing people for the room at whatever their per person for the room rate was.

Some of it is also change of venue. Hotels frown on you supplying your own food, convention centers even more. So the con suite winds up being catered (when I was chair prices effectively started at $22/person and went up with an incentive to buy the more expensive dishes because then you were only paying 2x what it should have cost instead of 3 or 4x). The venues themselves, even at NPO rates aren't cheap. IIRC it was about $300K 10 years ago for the BCC, DCCC is even more expensive.

Plus you pay lawyers to defend your trade and slogan marks, and accounting firm to prepare your taxes, I think at this point the accounting firm is also making the payments at the directive of the appropriate officers, whereas when I was treasurer, they only prepared the tax returns. Eventually the show was so big we even had to pay our show director. We made that call on my watch, but at the time it was worth it. He was a professional show director in NYC and charged us about half of what he cost should have been. He died of a heart attack and the position had to be bid out, so I don't know that is still true.

We started going to the trade show in Japan to improve guest recruitment while I was there. A year or so after I walked away they started paying for guests.

It adds up quickly.

>>9707757

The other thing is that as another poster alluded to, it is nearly impossible to cut the budget.

One year when I was comptroller, when we sat down for the budget meeting, we were $55,000 in the red, which at the time was maybe 20% over budget. The way the budget was prepared was each Section chief submitted his request for the way he wanted to run the budget (line items), we projected income (previous year's attendance x current dues plus dealer/artshow/artist alley space) and compared the two. Then we'd all get together in a room and go through each department's items and see if there was anything the majority was willing to cut. With that sort of shortfall, Guest offered to cut their budget for upgrading the furniture in the Green Room by 50%. We spent 20 minutes discussing a $500 cut. Exhausted and exasperated I made what was possibly my second worst decision in my time with the con: I proposed upping dues by $5 to cover the deficit and generate a rainy day fund. A couple months later Guest sprang a surprise You-have-to-fund-this-or-we-lose-face surprise on us that left a $60,000 hole in the budget. Now, in that case it worked out because attendance increased enough to fill the hole. But it also started what is the current mentality of 'it will all work itself out.' It also setup one of the memes I truly hated. Anytime a $5 or $10 dollar increase in dues, one of the Section Chiefs (who was eventually a Con Chair) would stand up and say "The dues increase is less than a cup of coffee at Starbucks. It's not that much and people will be able to afford it."

>>9707768

All that being said, I think the biggest problems actually stem from the lawyers, which isn't to say they are wrong about their advice.

When we started, pretty much everything except the exact guests attending was discussed by key staff as whole. Yeah, our bylaws allowed both executive and general meetings, and in theory we held one before the other, but in practice, everything was discussed in the general meeting. And ANYTHING could be brought before the general meeting. The lawyers said doing that opened the members of the staff to lawsuits because only the officers of the corporation could be indemnified. So decisions started migrating to the Executive portion of the meeting, which while open, tended to be less attended and not as subject to robust debate as the general meeting.

Then General meeting degenerated into Section Chiefs reading reports, which caused attendance to drop there. So now there are too few eyes (and far too few jaundiced eyes) reviewing projects. I suspect the room incentive was created to offset this problem, but since it doesn't address the central issue, was doomed to failure as well as at least the appearance of impropriety if not actual impropriety itself.

Shakespeare was right. First thing we have to do when the revolution comes is shoot all the lawyers.

>>9707046

My reliable source tells me they budgeted for 31,500 people. Released numbers (which use to be proudly posted on the Otakon web page) put the number at under 25,000. So 6,500 people short. Add two zeros for the $100 registration fee and you're short $650K before overages. Vegas is know to bleed another $100K+ a year. That's a $750K year shortfall. When I left, that would have blown through all the money in the accounts and left them with nothing to fund recruitment for the next year.

It's arithmetic, not news.

>>9707495
A lot of large cons are still stuck in the mindset that they're still the small con based out of a hotel from back in the day. The exponential growth of these conventions hasn't caught up with the staff yet.

When your con hits the 10k mark of attendees you are no longer "small" and need to get some kind of professional help with con operations.

>>9707422
Ota Staffers in this thread are doing that already. They will blame everybody but themselves.

>>9707778

It would be impossible to run a meeting with the current size of the staff unless you were an anal dick about Roberts rules of order and even then, awkward nerds gonna awkward. Not saying section chiefs running roughshod is a good idea either. Should've built in an advisory board or online feedback or something.

>>9707778
It sounds like the ota lawyers don't understand laws around nonprofits very well. Violating your bylaws is way worse than opening yourself up to risks from a regular member meeting. If you're not a real nonprofit you're gonna get fucked over for tax fraud.

>>9707952
This is BS, lol. I've run and participated in meetings like this with over 100 people. They probably have no idea how to facilitate.

>>9707778
Your problem is not the lawyers who suggested that high level decisions be discussed during exec meetings. Your problem is that exec is currently made up of a bunch of mismanaging boneheads. Every con I know makes their big decisions behind closed doors, although the better ones then post those minutes where the general staff can see them. The key is not to throw 500 voices into the ring, but rather to elect good people to those decisionmaking positions.

Implying that the lawyers were the "real" reason Otakon failed is just more of the same old tune that staffers seem to sing, which is that everyone but themselves is to blame.

>>9707778

Is pic related?

Sounds like staff wants to blame everyone but themselves. Does the staff not elect officers or get to vote on things? Did the staff get to vote about Vegas or did someone just decide to start it without the staff knowing?

>>9708104
Staff only gets to vote if they are a "voting member". To do that you have to pay the $100 or whatever reg fee for the con. I lot of people don't do that

>>9708144
But one of the perks to staffing is to not have to pay. I guess it's kind of ironic in that the people who are in a position to know better about the goings on in a convention are not able to actually control the convention and maybe prevent Bad Ideas (tm) from happening

>>9707821
Bullshit. We were well past the 10K mark and running as an all volunteer organization for years before the "professional" organizers moved in. Truth is, we amateurs did a more professional job than they did.

>>9707961

The advice doesn't violate the bylaws. The bylaws are written in the standard legalese that allows this sort of thing according to the current operating policies of the operators. If anything, our previous 'open season on anything' was more likely to ignore the bylaws. Hence the bit about the advice not being wrong.

>>9707973
Both Hayek and Linux destroyed your elitist argument. You sound like an inept staffer trying to distract from a central problem.

>>9708104

Well, back when I was an officer, we did that a lot. That started declining well before I walked away. Sometimes the elections were run in a very Kremlinesque way. One year we had an election for President with only one candidate. One of the Old Farts made a stink about doing it by secret ballot instead of voice since it was a moot point.

And voting is sometimes a moot point. If Guests comes to you having made huge promises to some bigwig in Japan without first consulting even the financial people, the vote is pure window dressing. They've committed you to the course of action and the only alternative is suicide.

There were multiple Vegas votes. All of them were gun to your head votes. For one of them the Officers even made a last minute change to the date so the people who opposed it couldn't make the meeting.

Also, it is important to distinguish between staff, members, and voting members. you can be staff without being a member although that is difficult. Technically anyone who attended Otakon is a member, although they do not have voting status. When I left to be voting staff you had to have 1) paid your dues, 2) attended a minimum number of meetings in the last fiscal year, and 3) worked a number of hours supporting Otakon as set forth by the President. Not sure what the current rules are.

>>9708330

No, everyone has to pay dues. When I was there it was the lowest pre-con rate. The not paying is a hyper-technical loophole. Because you worked a number of hours in excess of the gopher reimbursement number, you get a refund on your membership (just like the gophers) but it gets rolled over without check writing.

At one point we did have a provision to waive dues for one year in case we had college student poor people with good recommendations who wanted to help. I think that was excised by amendment shortly before I left.

>>9708537
I'm not on staff and I have no idea what you're talking about. I just fail to see how it's "elitist" to expect good people in high ranking positions. If your mindset is that your exec staff is going to be garbage people who require hundreds of observing eyes to keep them in check, your con is doomed to fail from the start. No large convention in the USA is run that way for a reason.

Is this part of the reason why otakon hasn't released their hotel block rates yet? I was kind of looking forward to next year since the theme was supposed to be dealing with giant robots...

I remember booking hotel rooms right after every Otakon for years. They would announce the next Otakon dates at closing ceremonies and then the hotel link would go on the website/BBS about a week later. I remember this since I was in charge of booking hotels for my for my friend group. It was easy to get everyone committed when they were still riding the high from having fun at con.

Has the hotel link ever been this late?

Not that I recall.

>>9708534
Here's the thing though, is that, you're an idiot; hence why I don't trust what you're saying.

>>9708647
Yes.

>>9709363
Different anon, but do you somehow think you're just talking to one person in this thread?

And for the record I agree with >>9708534. The bylaws according to OP allowed for both general and executive-only meetings. Sounds like there wasn't any specifics on WHAT got discussed during those two meetings, so moving high level discussions behind closed doors doesn't violate the bylaws. Are you the same person who's somehow trying to pin Otakon's failings on their lawyers?

>>9708645
> I just fail to see how it's "elitist" to expect good people in high ranking positions.

I'm not staff of Ota, but I do run a different con. I'm also on our board of directors and have been for years. I can tell you right now that depending how you elect your board members, it's not always easy getting "Good people" in positions of power. We have it set up as staff electing our board members and we've come to find out that only one department will show up in droves to their staff in from said department. We now changed it so voting needs to be done at our mandatory meeting in which we have all of our staff plus diversity in votes. We're a much smaller con to begin with. Sure, we want to have good people in positions of power, but it definitely doesn't end up that way. This current method has served us well. It's different for every con. We're working on making things better and easier for the diversity of staff voting.

>>9709962
Key difference here is that your con recognized a problem with bad people being elected, and you changed things to fix it. You didn't just throw up your hands and blame some lawyers from a decade ago.

>>9708647

Difficult to speculate. Hotel rates were strictly a function of what they are willing to grant to get the rooms sold, no kickback to the con. Or at least there wasn't while I was there.

On the other hand, if they think they might have to go into some form of bankruptcy (either re-org or dissolve) they may not want to enter into contracts that will make the losses larger.

Before I left we had the BCC on a multi-year contract. About the time I left I thought they were working to do the same with the hotels. I don't know if they were successful.

Of course, the other possibility is that they've become so incompetent since I left that they actually don't know yet how much money they have to work with. If the executive staff do know, they certainly hadn't shared it as of Nov 5, 2017.

>>9709969

You're the idiot assuming things not in evidence about meetings you've never attended.

And yes the movement of business into the executive meetings was started and continuously reinforced by the corporate lawyer, which is why it took so long for the damage to accumulate.

That doesn't excuse the current staff who clearly have their heads shoved too far up their asses.

As I said, I left because there was no longer a solution. The lawyer was continuously using his position as the legal expert to channel decision making the way he did it as a government regulator. It was bad for the con. Lee Fenner got his group to take over the con and they vote how he tells them too. And yes, some of them were voting for Vegas because they wanted to vacation there, not because it was good for staff. Faced with those insurmountable problems I did the only thing I could. I walked away.

>>9709983
Just sounds like more blame shifting to me.

This sound so horrible. Shouldn’t the staff stop electing a guy running things into the ground. The lawyer a sounds whack too, but the lawyer gives advice and if it’s bad, the staff should ignore it.

>>9710063
The lawyer is telling people what they want to hear. The people are doing what they want to do in the immediate moment and not for the good of the convention down the line.

Seriously, Vegas was a shit decision. There's a reason why there are no big anime cons in Vegas. It's not a good place for attendees when there are so many better options out there. Trade shows yeah, Vegas is great. Once a year an industry gets together together and blows things up (CES, SEMA, SHOT, etc...). Anime cons are a dime a dozen.

>>9709983
Amen. Lee and his people are fucking cancer. Online attendance is countering his bullshit a bit now. Lawyer was also at odds with most of the major con trash at the last meeting. There's board whispers outside the meeting of letting him go and getting a new lawyer soon.

>>9710058
I repeat, you're an clueless idiot. You've obviously never worked your heart out on a project for 19 just to have other fuckers come along and trash it.

>>9710063

There are only so many times good people are willing to throw themselves on top of the live hand grenade before they quit, or at least make a separate peace with the powers that be.

No, the lawyer isn't a whack, just an absolutist. In fact, on a personal level, he's a nice guy. He had just gotten his PA license about the time we were working on incorporating. He did that legal work for us, and got us past the IRS hurdles since they thought we looked too much like a trade group (I was just following the sf con examples for incorporation; if I had it to do over I'd do a 501(c)4 instead of c(3) but the c(3) is defensible). After he realized what we'd accomplished, he was actually a bit in awe of what we had done. But when he realized how much money we were handling, he sort of panicked and started turning us "professional". I'd like to tell you some of the stories about that, but even with they way things have gone downhill, some things are still Fight Club.

If he was just a whack job, he would have been easy to get rid of.

>>9710153

No, the lawyer isn't telling people what they want to hear. He's telling them precisely the law, or at least the law as he understands it. Problem is, sometimes the law is an ass and what is legally the best advice is actually adverse to the health of the organization. The bit about using only the executive committee to make decisions is the best example, and the reason I used it. Legally sound to protect the voting members. Lousy for the organization, and in the long run it made the organization vulnerable to precisely what he thought he was trying to avoid: a group not dedicated to paying attention to what fans wanted taking over the organization.

>>9710214

Even without the question of whether his advice has been helpful to the corporation, they executives need to take a closer look at that arrangement. He wasn't young when he helped us incorporate, and so far as I know, he doesn't have any partners working with him for continuity.

Well, assuming they find a way out of the fiscal mess they made, reconnect with the fan base, and have a potential continuity to protect.

>>9710617
I'm not the anon who replied to you before. Grow up.

The lawyer didn’t bring in a younger guy for a few years but he seems to have disappeared. There have been rumors of tossing the lawyer for years but nothing ever happened.

>>9710860
Half the board was horrified that the lawyer opposed membership tiers. Believe me that replacing him was the first podt budget meeting discussion. Not saying it'll happen but the feels were real.

>>9710860

The "backup" lawyer was brought in by one of the officers of the corporation and shadowed the real lawyer. Then he found a real job.

Current lawyer has been trying to find someone else to take it over, but with no real luck.

Like Based Pimp Hat once told me "You only get replaced when you're gone"

To be honest I'm surprised this thread hasn't been mentioned on the otakon bbs. Right now it seems like staff members are trying to allay everyone's fears over the hotel reservations.

But then again, given the amount of info in this thread, it's probably not a good idea.

>>9710992
podt?

what does that stand for?

What are membership tiers?

>>9712031
assumably stuff like:
tier 3: general attendees
tier 2: general attendees+ and get first dibs on lining up for panels and stuff
tier 1: super attendee special con suite, lines up before tier 2, priority for autographs
tier 0: VIP MEGATTENDEE eat dinner with the guest of your choice, guaranteed VIP only autograph session, higher priority than tier 1

Wow. I thought Otakon always prided itself on not being able to pay for special access. This is awful. Next we will be paying for each event alla AX. I don’t mind paying $5 for an event when the base ticket is $60. But Otakon was always supposed to be all inclusive. I guess they showed their hand by charging for the good concerts this year.

>>9712612
as this thread has shown they need money bad and pride has to go out the window

>>9711596
i think it's a typo of "post"

Hotels will never open at this rate. Will there even be an Otakon? Isn’t this Otakon 25? Shouldn’t there be some amazing stuff like there was for Otakon 20?

Nope. If it evens happens, it will suck.

>>9712194
Well fuck that. I'm skipping Ota for Dragoncon. At least their con suite is free for all attendees.

Apparently Otakon is publically addressing then hotel delay on social media.

>>9712932
The wording was so... sad, it didn't bode well with me. I'm not holding out for much.

>>9705494
>Well of you have such issues with the con than just leave

Thousands of people already have. :^)

Maybe learn how to run a con better?

> ..

While you're at it, learn how to write a fucking ellipses correctly.

Geez. That social media post was cringeworthy.

>>9712612

You have a couple things going on with this tiered membership thing.

Basically it comes down to this: How can Otakon sell day passes without selling day passes? Day Pass = Ticket = Event Taxes; which suddenly makes it more trouble than its worth.

So from that idea came the idea of a tiered membership, offer a better experience for more money. The Otakon Vegas team found plenty of members willing to pay more for a better experience, and stupidly they assumed what worked on the West Coast will "port over" to an East Coast convention. Wrong answer, but nobody listed to this anon.

Funny thing, the next Otakon meeting got moved at the last minute, from this weekend to next. The last time this happened, it was for a wedding, but it also prevented the greybeards from attending the meeting to oppose the vote to have Otakon Vegas to begin with. Not saying its the same thing, but its a hell of a coincidence it happened for the budget meeting.

Also want to smack the next person who tells me "Hurr durr Otakon's a non-profit, they're not supposed to make money"

Moving the most meeting sounds like something shady is going on.

The problem with moving meeting dates at the last-minute is that its tough for members/staffers far from the venue to make/change travel plans.

Given the meeting is being held at the Otakon "home office" the shift in dates at the last minute makes no sense.

How was this year's Ota, smooth transition, or dumpster fire?

>>9715769

I only got to go for a day, but I thought it was way better than I assumed it would be! The staff (in my experience) were amazingly helpful and friendly, and I figured out the layout of the convention center with little effort. I ran to the dealer's room and bought a tshirt and then ran to the other end of the convention center to catch a panel on the JET Program in less than 15 minutes. It was impressive! I still miss the BCC and Baltimore though, I'll be interested to see if Otakorp gets it together for this year and the overall move to D.C.

Sorry for the wall of text!

>>9715769

Otakon staffer here, it was somewhere in between. You had a lot of seasoned veterans who knew their job, but had to adjust to the new surroundings. A lot of the hacks and protips built up over years in the BCC no longer applied.

That said, a lot of the seasoned veterans stuck around just to see what the new venue was like, and will probably not come back.

Then we get pic related.

I really liked DC.

I've been a few times (although not in a few years) and this is just sad to hear. Hope they get on better footing somehow.

A announcement about hotels has been made, apparently the Experient portal will open for booking on December 12th at 12:00pm EST.

(According to their Facebook page post)

Maybe a staffer can clue us in on the hotel drama to date.

>>9717455

Its a new batch of hotels that have never worked with Otakon before. Now that its actually happened, there was a lot of post-con negotiations and resetting of expectations for next year.

No real drama, just part of the move to DC

>>9713619

There's no way to dance around the ticket tax for day passes. Anything that attempts to do so will be a transparent attempt at defrauding the various entities who collect the ticket tax. (I'm thinking mostly TicketMaster at this point because the move to DC should negate the Maryland State ticket tax, and unless they've radically altered the Bylaws, they're incorporated in PA. Given the lawyer still works for the corporation, I think it has to be in PA; that's where he passed the bar and I don't think he ever applied to practice in MD.)

>>9713619

As to changing the meeting at the last minute, that's a clear sign for all hands to abandon ship.

When I drafted the first copy of the bylaws, the whole point of requiring what was effectively 2 months notice for a meeting was precisely so that ALL voting members would have sufficient notice to be aware of the issues being discussed, have time to plan to be there, and have sufficient time to do any research they needed to do to present their side for the issues.

Interestingly, when it came time to address that line, all the discussion was in support of the time period.

>>9718162
My source clarified how they moved the meeting. Here's the exact reply I gave to him:

That's not what that section was intended to address. It was intended to address: 'Oh shit we received a registered letter from the government which requires action before we can schedule a regular meeting.'

Sinking ship

>>9709983

Seems like a lot of Otakon bashing and not a lot of proof. Otakon is awesome and you guys suck. Proof or stop knocking it.

>>9720751
Faghas no reading comprehension. Fag relates it to awesome vs sucks instead of facts. Pathetic.

Probably an Otakon staffer trying to garner pity for poor life decisions.

>>9720751
This is amateur hour defense even by 4chan standards unless you're specifically going for that

>>9680530

To the OP: Mission Accomplished.

The current Otakorp BoD has been notified of the presence of this thread.

What are they going to do? Ban us from Suckakon 2018?

>>9721712
Make a public announcement about their feelings because they can't handle some criticism

>>9721604
They've known since day two White Knight. There is no defense for the state of Otakon and so silence was opted for. Curious if your "notification announcement" being read here and thid response will force them into public acknowledgment.

Sounds like the snowflakes are in for a rude awakening.

Any updates from staff people?

>>9723075

Meeting is today (12/16)

Pic related

I doubt any staff who are in the know hang out here.

>>9723511
yeah if i knew how fucked up my con was i'd be trying to keep as few people as possible knowing about it. you'd be surprised at how many friends of friends there are out there involved in cons though. it's actually a fairly small group.

>>9723511

At least one high-up person in the Otakon BoD is monitoring this thread.

As for me, to parahrase Lynard Skynard: I know a little about [Otakon] and baby I can guess the rest

>>9720751
Jeezus that damage control

Shouldn't they be fixing their con and not hanging out on 4chan? What a bunch of losers.

>>9725207

>over 1000 staffers
>maybe have dozen posting here
>amount of posters to resource utilization: 1.2%
>Your posting to resource utilization: 100%

Who is the loser now?

>>9725339
>>>9725207
>>over 1000 staffers
>>maybe have dozen posting here
>>amount of posters to resource utilization: 1.2%
>>Your posting to resource utilization: 100%
>Who is the loser now?
What if they were the otakon?

>>9725339
The one scrambling at straws to convince people that otakon isn't up shit creek without a paddle

1,000 staffers = fake news. troll.

>>9726455
Lol. There's over 900 staffers but under 1k. Not even a third of them are voting members. Only the voting staff had a say in all the bad decisions. The rest of the staff didn't fucking care enough to become voting members. They should all becoke voting members and take the time to research then vote responsibly.

>>9727048

This, this, a thousand times this.

With remote voting, its possible for a lot more people to become voting members.

----

>>9725589

Its like this: its not as bad a poop show as the Seagulls here make it out to be, but its also not as good as a lot of Otakon staffers think it is.

Heard some stuff at the meeting thats not gonna be received well though.

Well, tell us about the meeting.

>>9729466
Budget got passed, 800 bucks in the black. Slightest thing goes wrong and this whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

>>9729800
Also playing around with tiered memberships. But ofc in typical fashion managed to botch that because a) by laws don't allow it and need to be amended even as people insist delusionally that they don't b) offering 3 day, a sat/sun badge, and a Sunday badge, but somehow not a Friday only or Friday/Sat.

>>9729800
Considering their regular business trips and Vegas losing 100k a year that's going to fail fast.

>>9729800
800 bucks? Seriously? Holy shit.

>>9729800
$800 is nothing and incidentals for an event of this size are going to make that disappear in a flash

>>9730002
>>9729891
I think staffer!anon's concern is that budgets are supposed to build in a surplus/rainy day fund, not go into the actual negative in a best case scenario. In other words, staff looked at the current monetary situation where they're 100k in the hole, and rather than re-budget to scrimp and save, they're continuing with business as usual. Another attendance drop or a big unforseen expense would require money they haven't set aside.

>>9730002

I make more than that in a biweekly pay check. It's pretty obvious that 800 for an event of otakon's size is alarmingly low.

>multi million dollar event (6+ zeroes!)
>$800 in the black (2 zeroes!)
what could go wrong? :)

>>9729800

Way to avoid the elephant in the room sempai

Care to tell the Seagulls what got cut to make that modest profit?

>>9732586
You clearly know, so why don't you tell?

>>9733071

Not in a position of authority to disclose kohai

Looks like Room Blocks and Artist Alley are open

>>9732586
You mean eliminating food vouchers for staff? I've worked cons who can't feed their staff or barely do so. That shit is small potatoes compared to a con that has a 800 dollar margin and had an offshoot con in 1 month with no guests.

>>9733659

Just looked it up and wow I can't believe they have 0 guests. That contract must be written horribly for Otakon if holding a convention like this is better than just cancelling it.

>>9733659
>>9734225
Holy shit, you're right. With anime impulse stealing your thunder the week before I guess there's no point to subjecting a guest to an empty con though. Anime impulse is a tiny con in its own right too.

>>9734225
They have Todd Haberkorn as their 2018 guest so far. Not saying that otakon isn't in deep shit atm, but they kind of slowly release their guest list throughout the year instead of, all at once, just to be fair.

That said, an $800 budget raises a lot of questions; probably ones that heads of staff don't want to answer...

>>9734327
Shit, you probably meant Vegas. NVM I need sleep.

>>9733422
So what good are you. Too scared to contribute but want to yap.

>>9733422
You look kind of silly now that >>9733659 casually dropped it. I have to agree though that this is small potatoes compared to some of the other things that have been up on the chopping block (eliminating hotel rooms or cuts that actually affect attendees not staff)

>>9735378

Nope, some other big cost-cutting measure

>>9737090
>>9733422
>>9732586
Why are you telling some other anon to spill the beans but claim you aren't "authorized" to tell? You know this is an anonymous board, right?

Either bring some actual information or stop trying to stir drama with nothing to back it up.

>>9737172
they're totally going to track him down through the interwebs because otakon is going to get his IP

I'm just going to assume it's highly likely that we won't see otakon in 2019. It's been swell, fellow gulls.

So what does that leave in the DC area? Katsucon and Magfest? Anime USA (desu probably also dying)? Hell does even Nekocon count (is Nekocon even still around)?

Vegas anon here. The Vegas community gave up on OV last year, barely anyone is going this year and everyone believes that this is OV’s last year. They haven’t released any guest info, press still can’t get press badges, and the hotel block is a mess. Hope they can fund the con with only preteen weebs going.

>>9737665
Neko is in Hampton, not DC. And there's Awesomecon in DC too.

Otakorp has been trying to get out of the otakon Vegas contracts for years. All the locals have given up since this is then last Vegas show anyway.

Same thing to say about Bronycon which saw a drop too (in 2016 still grew) and doesn't help being the weekend it's on. The fandom bubble probably had already burst and considering you don't see as much pony merchandise at Hot Topic is an indicator. They're stuck on the BCC contract for a few more years.

>>9737665
Awesome Con too in DC.

>>9737979
Bronycon is actually an interesting phenomenon considering how quickly they went from only having a few hundred attendees at it's beginning to having over 10k attendees within a short time span of its existence. There are established conventions that wished it had exponential growth like that.

How much do you want to bet that there is no Otakon in 2018?

>jack up prices every year
>still need more monies
The shantytown of this convention

>>9680530
I went to Otakon for 12 years. In that time, I watched the serious decline in quality go right along with a ridiculous rise in registration costs. I watched transparency for why things were getting more expensive get replaced with "it's none of your business". I've seen some of the worst scheduling issues of any con take place in their halls, and the person responsible for it was back in the same position the next year. In the last few years that I went, I saw some incredibly shitty actions, up to and including toward their own team.

Otakon was my first con, and it really sucked to walk away from it, but the more I hear about it, the more I really wish that dumpster fire would just collapse in on itself. Let another con take it's place with better management.

>>9738790
2018 one will happen no matter what. >>9738802
Venue rental costs in DC are significantly more in DC than Baltimore, hence the increase in 2015 to prepare for it. It's exactly what many part of Otakon even said. Any convention held at the DC convention center has pricey admission.

The venue isn’t that much more expensive. DC really wanted their business.

>>9738839
it is when you are also renting out 2X the amount of space at a higher rate. AwesomeCon and VGU events have $80+ badge rates too at the same venue for a weekend. Otakon needed at least 30k at the DC venue to break even. Before they signed the contract they were reaching those numbers, but after 2014 they have not.

And I can tell DC is expensive when I eat out at fast food restaurants on the outskirts in rundown areas and paying 2X the price of food that I do in Baltimore.

>>9737694
OV Vegas was planned to be folded after 2018 years ago. Now it's obvious that's gonna happen

>>9738828
The increase in registration costs was happening long before 2015. I didn't even attend in 2015.

No one here knows shit.

>>9741431

Welcome to /cgl/ you must be new here

At this rate I will not be surprised if they charge $100 (starting) for pre-reg this year

>>9742290
If AX can charge $100 (eventually), why can't Otakon?

I’d pay $100 for this shit show.

Just curious if $100 is that big a psychological barrier compared to, oh, $97

>>9743223
yes. that's why companies sell things for 19.99 instead of 20 and 99.99 instead of 100

>>9743223
While the psychological Olympics of thinking you're getting a better deal for a penny less has some truth to it, it doesn't have much to do with otakon's current situation. Otakon has been steadily raising their rates with each passing year, claiming that it "helps" provide for a "better" con. I haven't seen otakon charge $100 out the door for pre-reg yet, but considering how dire their finances are according to this thread, this is more of a possibility of them passing on their financial mismanagement to the consumer, in the hopes that if they charge enough per person, they will recover. These are just my speculations, which may or may not have any weight to them. However, just because one con charges $100 or more per head, doesn't mean that another con has to do it as well, especially if said con is in trouble for not even being able to budget correctly.

>>9680530

Is anyone even going to Otakon Vegas?

>>9744794
Since someone made a thread for it (which got no replies) I guess at least one person is. With zero guests it is basically a community college anime fair in a really expensive venue.

Otakon Vegas is great. Me and all my friends are going. It’s a lot of fun.

>>9745311
This is the most unenthusiastic shill post I've seen of late.

>>9744998
As of now, Vegas has two guests: SungwWon Cho (proZd) and Yoichi Nishikawa. Is it normal for Vegas to have so few guests or should we be more concerned?

>>9745835
No one has disputed that otakon vegas is a sinking ship so I'm not even sure concern should be warranted. It seems to be a foregone conclusion that it's done for. If this is the last year of the contract otakon will be glad it's over and all they need to do is survive the year because without that boat anchor next year's budget frees up immensely

Otakon Vegas was a great idea. Poor management sunk it.

>>9746092
I'd say it was a horrible idea because vegas. Vegas has proven to be terrible for conventions time after time, convention after convention. It's too close to Los Angeles and its conventions and too far from everywhere to have its own thriving community able to support a con. It was probably dreamed up as viable because someone thought "omg lel vegas xD"

Didn't somebody at one point suggest doing an Otakon cruise at one time? Something like that seems more viable that Ota Vegas.

>>9746124
That would be the biggest disaster at sea since the Titanic.

>>9746148
Can you imagine trying to sell enough tickets to poor teenage weebs? Those cruise festivals aren't exactly in their price range. It'd be like otakon vegas/lantis festival all over again

>>9746124
The only con that could possibly get away with doing a con cruise would be Dragoncon due to their attendees trending older and actually having money. Otakon's demographics can't afford a cruise. And no, room stuffing won't help you here because cruise packages want their money up front.

Does anyone know how Otakon’s finances are now? Looks like Vegas is going to be a shit show so won’t that make their situation even worse?

>>9745311
Good for you. You enjoy that sinking ship.

>>9745330
I had a good chuckle at your comment.

>>9746157
You struck the nail on the head. A lot of the Vegas attendees are poor young weebs.

>move con to ridiculously expensive place for literally everyone
>WOW WE HAVE MONEY TROUBLE!!!!


Was there ever a legit reason for why they chose DC out of ALL the viable other places?

>>9746107

Its an over-simplification to say "poor management" but thats largely it.

Mostly it comes from making broad assumptions that what worked for Otakon "Prime" would work for Vegas, and that was simply not the case.

The appropriate people were warned, yet they persisted.

>>9746179
>The only con that could possibly get away with doing a con cruise would be Dragoncon due to their attendees trending older and actually having money.
ConVoluted is pretty much Dragon Con on a boat.
http://www.con-voluted.com/

>>9746221

It was discussed earlier, the budget was about $800 in the black. Gotta take small steps to start.

>>9746397

YES

Tell me sempai, what other venues do you consider "viable?" I recall Philly and Pittsburgh being considered, but the venue was unfeasable in the former and the latter was too far from major transportation routes.

Once Otakon goes too far afield, it would start losing competent staff.

I think Otakon has already lost most of their competent staff. It’s why they are in this mess.

PS. We aren’t supposed to call it “Prime” in public. Don’t want PAX to sue us!

>>9746049
>Otakon Vegas gets canned
>Budget freed up immensely
>Registration prices still don't go down
>Otakorp chairholders continue to burn money on themselves

Calling it. They will learn nothing and continue down the self congratulatory path they've been on.

>>9746604
Otakon Vegas won't be going anywhere until the lease is up on what place they are at

>>9746609
And I hope that lease takes them straight to the fucking grave. Their current chairholders have ruined what used to be a fun con.

>>9746604
That is the Lee Fenner way. Otakon is a series of welfare check he is entitled to milk. You should hear his self glorifying power tripping druken speeches.

>>9746609
wait how much longer is on the contract?

>>9746812
2018 is the word

How is it that MAGFest can host multiple events across the country but Otakon is struggling to host one other?

>>9747090
A combination of bad management decisions and high expenses. Magfest generally has lower guest expenses given the type of guests and they haven't made massively boneheaded moves like trying to have a standalone con in Vegas. At least with magwest they shared a location with another con

>>9747351

In all fairness, Otakon Vegas has been trying to work with the local LVL UP convention that seens to be doing okay. Hoping is beneficial to both parties

>>9735378
>>9737172

Okay, here we go.

As part of bringing the Otakon Fiscal Year 2018 budget down to a manageable level, some economies were made.

One of them was to free up all the *function* space to the Marriott Marquis and move those events into the convention center.

This should be a one-and-done deal to save on the hotel bill while Otakon makes adjustments to being in Washington DC. I'm loath to use the term, but "tactical retreat" seems to fit.

inb4 "Hurr Durr Otakon's shrinking!"

>if I put "hurrr durrr" before something, it's not true!

Good God, how can a human live with a cock so far down the throat?

>>9737979
>>9738217

Making this prediction now: BronyCon is going to reach out to the Steven Universe fans to keep the numbers up

Who’s selling popcorn? I want some!!!

>>9744794
I'm going but thats just because i'm a local and theres not too many cons that happen here.

>>9747361
The moment the contract runs out is the moment otakon needs to get their shit stable in dc. I'd rather they spend the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars not needed for vegas to enhance otakon or hell just spend it on good guests. Otakon Vegas has had nothing worthwhile come out of it

>>9747380
SUfags had their own con awhile back if I remember correctly.

If the ponyfags want to reach out to any fandom they should try something equally pathetic, such as the dying homestuck fandom, or Sonicfags.

>>9747380
They have enough influx from tumblr/lgbt/otherdumbshitsites and other sites to sustain it for a while longer. Their con is more or less a alternative cartoon con more with a focus on ponies. They might downsize the location but I'd be hesitant to say it's going away anytime soon.

You are so right that LF was the downfall of Otakon. The staff elected him twice. They deserve the mess they have now. Idiots.

>>9747743
How often are elections?

>>9747963

Every November

Another cost-cutting measure was to dispense with meetings that use hotel space, and move them into the Otakon "Office".

Thats gonna make it awful hard to bring in new staffers unless they happen to live near BWI Airport.

>>9747459

Would not say "nothing" It was good for a lot of proof-of-concept stuff, some of which made it back to Prime.

It also showed the con staff they were a bunch of huckleberries that were easy dupe, which made them a bit more vigilant about the DC Contracts.

I doubt it. Same guy negotiated the Vegas contracts and then DC contracts.

>>9748116

"Guy?"

Go home troll, you're drunk

Yup. Guy. Same guys signature on all the contracts. Go take a look. Or will the BOD not show them to little peons like yourself?

>>9748116
what is wrong about the DC contracts? The Baltimore Convention Center is aging and falling apart. The city of Baltimore still has no plan in place yet to renovate and expand it. The DC convention center is overall a much nicer venue and more up to date, even if more expensive. The Las Vegas contract on the other hand was a dumb move.

Overall, many who hated Otakon in Baltimore liked it much more in DC and overall feelings about the first Otakon in DC were 90%+ very positive. And don't forget, when Katsucon, AUSA, and ANEXT moved, they experienced some attendance drops as well for a few years.

>>9748412
Then who is it

Look at all the shills. Otakon is magical and full of love and can do no wrong.

>>9680873
What is this "jen pass" thing of which you speak? Sounds saucy.

>>9701453
>Lee Fenner
It's not this one is it? https://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/flyer.do?personId=70540

Nope. Wrong guy.

>>9748807

If you were on staff for longer than two years you would know, troll harder. Hint: >>9749165

>>9748806
My main problem with DC otakon was the bag check and only one entrance to the con. Having to wait in line to get in anytime you left the convention center was not fun.

Hint: your info is wrong. Look at the contracts and stop spreading fake news you troll.

>>9749832
not sure about the main entrance but this was fixed any time that wasnt friday morning.

Anyone with real insider knowledge have any updates?

>>9749832

There were two entrances (the other was through the Marriott Marquis).

Keep in mind Otakon was "volutold" to have the bag checks by Destination DC (same with AwesomeCon) because was right after the Congressional baseball shooting in Alexandria and everyone was still freaking out.

>>9751705

Next meeting is 10 February. Back in the day this meeting used to be held in January as the Budget and Materials Review Meeting, and at some point became "Com-Con".

This is where the planning begins in earnest for the coming year, the problem is thanks to Otakon Vegas its pushed back a month so its one less month of lead time.

>>9749832
My big problem with DC is the hotel costs, it's next to impossible now to go there without splitting rooms. Baltimore was bad in hotels but not THAT bad.

That’s not why the date wasn’t pushed. It’s nothing to do without vegas and everything to do with lack of money. They were afriad of having the meeting without enough cash to pay for it. MOney situation Must not Be that bad after all.

>>9749832
Anime Boston and AX have bag checks too. AB even has more security. I heard AnimeNYC had them but I never went to confirm. This is a trend in a lot of major cities right now. There use to be no bag check im DC until some recent events explained.

I really do not want to hear the complaint about DC hotels being expensive because they cost more in Los Angeles, Boston, NYC, and other major cities are priced similar. If anyone is scrapped for cash im DC for hotels, then get a $100 hotel in Crystal City and take the yellow line to the con.

>>9752455
Exactly. I'm staying in the Americana in Arlington for $70/ night and it's still cheaper than National Harbor after daily uber round trips

>>9752574
*staying at the Americana for Katsucon

>>9752113

You knew about this website, ne?
https://hotelsneardcmetro.com/

At the bottom of the page is a sortable table

I was one of the people who lobbied for a hotel/room block in an expensive hotel along one of the Metrorail lines. Was told "hurr durr members will pay more for closer hotels"

>>9752575

I've seen that place from Route 1! How is it?
I'm guessing the cheap motels on 1 South of the Wilson Bridge are booked solid for Katsu.

>>9752574

Which Metro Station is it close to?

>>9749165
the jen pass was basically a fake vip thing, people who were friends with jen would cut lines and shit and say they have the jen pass. most staffers didn't know wtf was going on so just went along with it. eventually it came out and jen was "disciplined". she still is staffing and staff is generally discouraged to talk about it. (i wouldn't be too surprised if you could get in more trouble for talking about this than jen did for doing it)

>>9752088
Otakon was not "volutold" to do this. They chose to do it on their own with added expense when it was unnecessary.

>>9754780

Yes, it was. This is directly from one of the Corporate Officers last year.

Going through my own notes it was "We highly recommend you have a bag check, and oh by the way you can't not have one"

>>9754962
More like "Here's your options if you want a bag check, and oh by the way, we'll probably have metal detectors installed next year, so next year you'd probably need to have one, but to reiterate YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED ONE FOR 2017."

Otakon is so screwed. They deserve it. They’ve been losing attendees for years. Maybe one day they will let learn.

>>9748791
>>9749408
>>9749843

Christ, learn how to reply to a post before you come here

Anyone coming to Vegas?

>>9755256

Put down the crack pipe troll

YOu guys need to leave Otakon alone! THeh are trying real hard! You suck and ur gags.

>>9680532
While they're supposed to have minutes from their board meetings, I doubt they're required to have a full transcript.

>>9756604

Taking a full transcript requires a lot of work, its not like stenographers are attracted to staffing anime cons.

Looks like post limit was hit, how about image limit?

>>9756604
The transcripts are months behind but exist for private use. Board Secretary does them. Half the board is plotting on her desu for unrelated shit.

Didn't AA flood last year at the new venue? Did that maybe contribute to the current situation and what really came of that? Seemed like a venue fault but I'm not very business/legal versed.

>>9757346
>Half the board is plotting on her desu for unrelated shit.
I'm sure every board member is actively plotting against other members in an organization of this size and clout.

>>9757376
It did. They had to close AA for a few hours to clean up. However, idk if any of the artists were compensated for damaged goods; it would have been really fucked up if otakon didn't though...

>>9757602

Keep in mind that was a HUGE amount of rain in a very short amount of time, and it overwhelmed the drainage system. Pic related: Yes that is rain coming through the light fixtures.

Was told at the wrap up meeting that the WEWCC would reimburse the artists for their loss. Not sure if it actually happened.

Doubt it.

I’m at Otakon Vegas. It’s.....quiet.

>>9759183
Awww... Are you at least having some sort of fun, anon? I mean this in the most sincere way.

I got a lot of good photos. Cosplayers were all nice and since it was so dead they let me move them to better backgrounds or give suggestions on showing off their costume better. Normally you only get a few seconds of someone’s time so I liked it. Just feel bad for some of the panelists who’s rooms looked so empty but were really just too big for the crowd here.