/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

>>9803727
What actually killed Rufflecon:
>Staff moved
>Too much work for not enough payoff
>Lack of attendees

What this thread will be
>Simplicity

>>9803732
don't forget about the mold problem, anon

>>9803735
Ah, solid point. But hey... Simplicity amirite?

>>9803746
Simplicity never made people sick.

>>9803748

>>9803727
>names it rufflecon
>complains about it being too centered on lolita fashion

>>9803735
What mold problem?

>>9803751
If they wanted anyone other than lolitas to come, they really failed in their promotion. They had non-lolita programming, but the website and main events and big guests and the badge tiers were all really lolita oriented. I'm sure there's plenty of goths, re-enactors, larpers, ren festers, steampunks and what not in the area but they didn't come to rufflecon and I don't see how the con can blame lolitas for that...

>>9803732
>con organizer literally sends email detailing why the con closed
>haha it's totally not what they said tho, my assumptions are the REAL story

My favorite part of the email is where she said the attendees were too mean to Simplicity to get new sponsors.

>>9803793
Caps of the email?

>>9803766
Aside from the simplicity drama, that’s the general gist of what she said. In the end, if they would have had the attendees and the staff it could have worked without the sponsorship. All three was what killed it

I was surprised how passive aggressive they sound towards lolitas. Maybe not intentional, but they don't sound professional at all. Are there any other statements besides this one?

>>9803808
If you knew you were going to end the event why the fuck would you not make a public statement? She just let her website expire and then deleted all social media accounts?

>>9803814
What? I didn't say she shouldn't have made a statement, I just think it should be done like a professional. If she talks like this to the people who were her customers, I don't want to know how she sounded to businesses.

>>9803793
The threats toward Simplicity scared away any future sponsors. It was horrible what the lolitas did to Simplicity.

>>9803818
Simplicity doing that to indie brands would surely scare indie designers away from attending even if Simplicity were there ever again. It's horrible what they did, but they're a big business, they really don't need you to whiteknight them.

>>9803820
>It's horrible what they did

What about the lolita community? Sending threats to sponsors didn't help Rufflecon bring in future sponsors. The lolita community is at fault for killing Rufflecon. What happened at Frill wasn't the lolita community, but intra-Atlanta Comm drama.

>>9803825
What "threats" were these other than "I'm not buying your products because you ripped off an indie designer"?

>>9803827
Death threats, rape threats, vehicle ramming attack to Simplicity's offices threats.

>>9803830
>things that happened

>>9803835
Yes, it did. It was a giant lolita troll Antifa mob that was the internet's version of the Charlottesville protest. There were lolitas that had lit their parasols on fire like tiki torches protesting at Simplicity.

>>9803827
Do people have caps or other proof of these threats? The only thing remotely resembling a threat that I saw was people calling out Simplicity in the review section of the copied pattern.

>>9803836
>Actual footage of the event
We’re all monsters

>>9803836
Pics please

Man it really is true, lolitas try to take over everything and then run it into the ground. Are anime cons next?

>>9803858
At least Lolitas are sexier than all these shitty cosplayers.

>>9803858
>try to take over
Look, I know this is bait, but fuck it.
Rufflecon, look at the fucking name alone and tell me they weren't going to attract Lolitas. It was hugely Lolita-centric, it was deliberate. Nobody was "taking over".
It sounds like the Rufflecon organisers were trying to rope in a broad range of alt fashions, but just didn't get enough interest, so they want to blame Lolitas for, you know, support the event and going.

>>9803793
But like tru tho

It wasn't really the attendees but random fucks calling for blood. I'm not a fan of what Simplicity did by any means but a lot of people seemed to forget that there's legal contracts involved and just months before the convention it's hardness to simply back out of a contract like that. It was hard enough for them to break the contract with the hotel after the mold issues, and they did that very quickly after 2016 ended - and they still couldn't break the contract. I think the general "lolitas are MEANIES" thing is dumb but a lot of people reacted really poorly to the Simplicity ordeal, and many of them were folks who never even attended the con.

>>9803886
Exactly. Lolitas acted poorly over the incident over Simplicity and now they have no lolita convention to go to.

Why couldn't lolitas and indie designers suck it up and bend over to Simplicity?

>>9803902
>Why couldn't lolitas and indie designers suck it up and bend over to Simplicity?
Come on anon you're not even trying.

>>9803886
sorry but what are you even talking about? i haven't seen any random fucks be mean to simplicity. it shouldn't be hard to break a contract with a hotel over mold unless it was a really shitty contract. everything itt just sounds more and more like the organisers were incompetent.

>>9803905
They were being mean to Simplicity. It was documented on Rufflechat and RC:U. Simplicity could have grow the lolita fashion community by selling patterns to newbies. Eventually they would have outgrown the stuff from Simplicity and start buying brand such as Angelic Pretty or BTSSB.

>>9803907
>It was documented
can you show me? i especially want to see the death threats and how simplicity replied to the mean girls.

>>9803908
Go search yourself on the pages and you'll find them. I'm not doing your legwork that Simplicity did with their patterns.

>>9803909
So... no real proof then

>>9803909
>I don't actually have documentation, go find some for me

>>9803913
From rufflecon's statement dated July 6, 2017

"Unfortunately, the incident also resulted in threats of violence and death threats made against both RuffleCon and Simplicity. This is unacceptable. Please understand that approaching the matter in this way will not garner results. We understand the issue is sensitive to our audience, but the first step should always be polite, firm and professional, not visceral. We are actively working with designers that reached out to us or Simplicity directly so far, and encourage others who have been affected to do the same as well. We would kindly ask that all threatening commentary cease towards us or Simplicity. It is not helping in resolving this matter. We understand your concerns, and we are here to support our artists directly. Please help us do that in a polite, professional way.

Because of the reaction online to the pattern, and the loss of our largest sponsor, we are now in a financial predicament that may halt further work for this conference. If you support individual artists and want to keep an event like ours going, please consider sponsoring our event in some capacity, or reaching out to companies you feel would be a better match for RuffleCon and its attendees. "

>>9803931
still need to see that proof


also does anyone else wonder why AM still gets support despite the death threats i sent to everyone who attends?

>>9803935
>also does anyone else wonder why AM still gets support despite the death threats i sent to everyone who attends?

You should stop doing that, Anon. You don't want Party Van to show up at your residence.

>>9803942
it was 0/10 bait and you still went for it, anon. wtf

>>9803935
lol if you think that rufflecon staff or simplicity care enough to post caps you are wrongo

Out of the loop
What was the simplicity drama?

>>9803948
when they attended Rufflecon, they bought things from independent designers so they could make patterns for a profit.
its kind of silly considering a lot of japanese brands work together with magazines to give them patterns but simplicity stole them, which made other small brands scared to attend rufllecon.

Popular company making patterns after VV could actually be useful for community. All the people who came for bonnet knock off could stay for actual VV, but not now. Enjoy your brands dying with lack of demand, because current lolitas are slowly leaving, and there will not be fresh normie blood to replace them.

Why is the controversy over Simplicity becoming the issue? Will nobody talk about how the convention had poor viability overall?

Before that drama went down, years prior people were already unimpressed by the amount of money they had to spend for a mediocre experience; whether that was buying premium tickets just to get junk, or the general state of the hotel/tea service.
The location was shit too and idk who the fuck was shilling to the contrary in the rebecca black archive, but that was laughable. Now that the organizers moved away (because fucking CT was never a hub of a major community to begin with), it served as another nail in the coffin.

The only way this con was worth it as a traveler out of state was to buy one of the premium/VIP tickets. If you bought a normal ticket the experience was subpar. It would be another matter if those tickets were available in reasonable quantities, but they often sold out quickly (it was never explained why more of these tickets could not be made available). I also noticed how friends of the organizers were favored and allowed to do certain things, like go into the VIP upper floor when they didn't have the ticket or room for it.

If any factors killed attendance it was those former. Who wants to pay good money for a shit ticket, a shit hotel, commute, and time off work to be treated second class unless you have the fortune to snag a better ticket for even MORE money?
By the by, the rationale for charging so much (wasn't it to partially fund the next year's con?) never made much sense for what attendees got.

In general there were other instances of abuses and rudeness aimed at vendors, volunteers, and the like and that kind of thing can only be hushed for so long before it comes to a head. Not to mention when I attended, there was an air of condescension upon attendees who were in jfash not lolita.

The con had big problems.

>>9803976
>Why is the controversy over Simplicity becoming the issue?
It's not becoming the issue, I doubt the posters here have ever attended Rufflecon or even wear lolita at all; it's just easy bait.

>>9803964
>but simplicity stole them

Let me remind you that Simplicity did not steal from brands. They just created patterns to sell and they're still selling them. Why don't the brands sue Simplicity? I guess they see Simplicity as insignificant.

>>9803971
This, this, this, this. Thank you for sharing the pic and your thoughts. I'm glad you agree with me.

>>9803976
Because lolitas apparently think Simplicity "stole" stuff from brands. They bought stuff from brands to create patterns. There was no stealing at all. You don't see the feds arrive at Simplicity's offices and charge them with corporate espionage.

>>9803985
>>9804010
Fair enough, I just think people are ignoring how the con was trending downward way before that. The first year I think people gave it a lot of free passes because it was a new con, but by the second year the problems were much more apparent to anyone with a brain.

>>9804010
VV is a small indie brand from Japan. Do you really think they would have the resources for a international lawsuit to sue a huge American company? Be realistic. They could have just partnered with them, but we all know Simplicity loves screwing indie designers.

>>9804018
why do you reply to bait? you're just as bad as he is

>>9804018
They should have. VV problem is that demand for their stuff never satisfied the supply they could make.

Also Simplicity wasn't making stuff from VV, they were creating patterns. That's all.

Aaand the simplicity troll wins again.

>>9804021
They can satisfy the demand tough
Just ask your SS to message them

>>9804034
Here's the thing. They're not making enough. Everyone knows in microeconomics the laws of supply and demand. I learned about it when I went to school in Germany. If 500 lolitas want a widget from VV, but VV can only make 250, VV will need to find a way to make 500 widgets for every lolita. You shouldn't only make 250 when 500 want it. If you don't, lolitas will find another outlet such as Simplicity. Maybe VV should consider selling online like everyone else does since the 1990s.

>>9804041
tHE problem is that if VV makes 1000 bonnets, only 10 lolitas would buy them ebcause lolitas don't know who the fuck VV is and how to buy from them

>>9803909
You're the one making the accusation. The onus of providing proof is on you, anon.

>>9804044
Read >>9803931's post and the text explains it.

>>9803976
Ok so every year I attended rufflecon I had a room on those top two floors. It was next to impossible to bring anyone up there who didn't have a room. They checked room keys a lot of the time in the lounge. I had a friend on staff that had trouble getting up to pick up a guest who was staying on that floor since staff rooms are on the regular floors.
There were plenty of deluxe badges, I know they didn't all sell out straight away last year although I think part of the reason they were limited was due to how many people they could fit for tea service. VIP badges for most events are seriously limited because they imply you get a ton of super perks. While I'll admit last year they were pretty sub par due to issues the con was starting to have they were great in previous years.
I'm going in a bit of reverse order here but as for the location, while CT may not sound like a location you'd expect for a con it was right around the corner from an Amtrak station and was a pretty easy drive from NYC. I've gotten to the con in both ways and I felt as far as getting there it was a pretty good location.
Were there problems? Yes. The con was young though and lots of cons have problems the first few years. Putting on an event like that is a ton of work and it was such a niche area of interest to begin with. I enjoyed the con nevertheless and am sad to see it go.

>>9804070
>next to impossible to bring anyone up there who didn't have a room
Not if you knew the organizers directly. Shoot, the girl I saw blatantly took food from the VIP lounge and brought it back with her to the lower level rooms. I know that because she snagged tea party sandwiches from the VIP lounge, which is where staff took the extras after the service (y'know after they gave regular attendees a hard time about asking for more).
Not naming names, of course.
Your friend didn't know the right people.

>it was right near an Amtrak
Plenty of people still had troubles with their commutes train included. Even if they flew in there were still a lot of logistical problems of having to commute the extra hour. It was super inconvenient and plenty of people were not shy about openly dreading that.

>easy drive from NYC
>easy
It's not, unless you're speaking as a person familiar with the area. I mean who are you trying to kid here? NYC has the worst traffic. The 95 through the city is nuts, and heaven help the people who drove in and had to take the jersey turnpike.
There's no reason to downplay the difficulty of driving through the city, everyone can admit it's hard esp for people out of state.

>>9803793
>>9803818
This is absolutely the most ridiculous part of the whole discussion. That's not how any business works. If Simplicity was "scared away" it was because they determined the ROI of doing the research not to alienate this VERY SMALL market in their outreach and expansion attempts wasn't enough to be worth it. Do any of you work in jobs that aren't paid hourly?

Did any of you actually like...go to the con or are you just all basing it off social media and one another's posts?

>genuniely curious not baiting

>>9804128
The only posters itt who haven't made it clear that they attended are the Simplicity posters. So there's your answer.

>>9804117
This.

>>9804133
There's just one simplicity poster talking to itself

>>9803836
Show proof or stop blathering.

>>9804117
I know several friends who are waitresses or Uber drivers. Those jobs pay less than hourly.

What I do know is that a predominant indie designer sent several death threats. She wasn't very kind and Simplicity *almost* pressed charges in making the threats.

>>9804154
Have you not seen the photos? You can't replace them.

>>9804184
>misses the point
It wasn't a question of how much you're paid, but whether you have any type of actual career as opposed to just a job.

Do you have receipts for that "predominant" (lol) indie designer? GTFO.

Whoever makes the next big lolita con, please do it in a big city. I will fly out there, spend lots of money, use my vacation days, and have a nice little trip and enjoy the sights. Please don't do it in a bumfuck state just because it's cheaper.

>>9804193
It's easier to find a hotel in a city that tourists actually go to anyway

>>9804193
>Whoever makes the next lolita con, make it a small con in a location people actually want to go to instead of mistakenly thinking a con needs 10k+ attendees to be a good con

ftfy

>>9803793
what killed it. it was cheap and didn't have a lot for too much money. like what the English tea party organizer basically said, you have to be willing to foot the bill. the cost was too high for too little payoff. if the con was good it wouldn't have needed simplicity. lets talk about the vip gift bags. that's why the attendance was down. the website. all of it.

>>9803799
But they don't, and the main change is that they're without simplicity, rather than a sudden decrease of interest and attendees from 2016 to 2017.

>>9804133
>People who disagree with me haven't attended because I say so!!!

>>9804333
plus lolita is super niche which doesn't help at all

>>9804113
>Even if they flew in there were still a lot of logistical problems of having to commute the extra hour.
>everyone can admit it's hard esp for people out of state.

So much this. Thank you anon.

>>9804438
Did you go both those years? Because there definitely was a drop in attendance.

>>9803808
>>9803905

they want to start fresh and don't want potential suckers to know they cant run a con. they are blaming lolitas when they could've gave a statement earlier and ended the fuss.

>>9803907
liar, liar, its worth keeping score cause we are choir boys at best.
>>9804139
the simplicity poster has to be a troll. I thought they were an employee but that cant be right.

As a cosplayer with only a minimal lolita wardrobe I'm surprised to find out that Rufflecon was trying to be more than just a lolita con. The steampunk part surprises me the most because that's a whole subculture that goes well beyond the fashion that an all encompassing alt-fashion con just would not cater to. Even in the world of alt fashion lolita seems pretty sectioned off from decora, yume kawaii and other subs. The branding was just awful. Also I live in SF so why the fuck would I want to go to CT to have an alt fashion experience.

>>9804443
What the fuck is your problem? I wasn't even one of the anons arguing about Simplicity, paranoid much?

But think about this in your petulant brain: Maybe people are annoyed because this thread is about the problems specific to running a lolita convention. Yet people like you insist on turning it into the ~STOLEN DESIGN WHODUNNIT~ debate for the umpteenth time.

Had you actually spent your money on this con and got the shaft like many of us did, and constantly have the issues steamrolled over with stupid shit whenever you wanted to bring them up, you'd be angry.
Blow it out your ass and shut up.

>>9803830
Whoop, here they are again. The notorious lolita rape and death threats, like were sent to Cathy Cat a few months ago.

>>9804453
There was a drop in attendance, but it wasn't sudden and was pretty expected.

>>9804580
>makes sweeping generalizations and assumptions
>wh-what's your problem?!?!?!?
nice try, but i don't have an opinion on this whole debacle. it's just funny seeing overly defensive anons like you insist their viewpoint is 100% correct.

>>9804662
You're still here? Lmao

>>9804193
what city would be ideal for gulls? legit curious, no shade

>>9805484
Probably San Fransisco, they have AP and aatp and many many alt fashion subcultures in the city.
Plus lots of museums, sights, and places to go.

>>9804813
nice1

>>9805545
100% agree. Plenty of rideshare services, the only place in the US or even NA with "lolita pilgrimages," there's a decent fashion community and steampunk community and good photo ops.

>>9805545
No? Getting around there sucks not to mention the prices just to park.

>>9805651
>driving in SF
i found your problem

>>9805545
It's also one of the only cities in the US that some of my friends have ever voluntarily gone to.

>>9805651
If I was flying to SF, NYC, any big city, I'd be ubering around. Why deal with the hassle of a car if I'm on vacation. And if I'm with friends we split the fare.

make sure you watch out for shit and needles on the ground. not even joking

additional bonus to not driving your own car is that it can't get broken into. we had THIRTY THOUSAND BREAK INS in the last year.

>>9805849
One thing I noticed while traveling around bigger cities North America and the US in general was the high number of homeless people and drug addicts just lying around on the street or harassing people, even in otherwise nice areas of the city. It made me feel very unsafe and I wasn’t even wearing full lolita. In LA one guy followed me around for several blocks screaming at me and even got onto the same bus, only stopping when the bus driver kicked him off. I’m so glad I was wearing normie clothes that day because I’ve noticed that bystanders are much less likely to intervene when they think you’re dressed like a weirdo yourself. Are there cities in NA with things that would be of interest to lolita tourists but without the high crime rate and homeless problem?

>>9805875
Every major city in the US has a homeless problem because our nation is economically fucked, whether the middle and upper class can see it or not. It's a public health crisis, especially on the west coast, where cost of living is very high and the weather is nice to temperate all year round.

Seattle and Portland felt a lot safer and more chill than LA, SF, NYC, and Chicago, despite having large homeless populations of their own.

Imo there aren't any cities in the South/South East or Midwest that would be worth it, and I say this as a midwesterner.

>>9805893
Columbus, Ohio is pretty cool. It's pretty much the San Fran of the Midwest.

>>9805898
Fuck Columbus. It's small, and there's nothing to do there. Honestly the only good thing about Ohio is Cedar Point.

The best place to have an event like this is at a city with a lolita shop or some sort of tourist attraction.
Part of the reason lolitas from all over the world came to SFE events was because it was in Paris/Barcelona/Amsterdam. Those cities smell like piss and weed, but at least you can go to a lolita shop, perhaps for the first time in your life, or do some other sight seeing.

>>9805898
Columbus would not be a good place to host an event like this; it's too secluded and there's really nothing to there at all.

The best midwest city to host a big event would by far be Chicago since it's a central hub and has tons of tourist stuff, but I think Minneapolis would be a good choice, too, since even though it's smaller it's super chill and has tons of great things to do.

>>9805911
There’s a lolita shop in Amsterdam?

>>9805933
Chicago is way too dangerous can we pick a city where Lolita's won't be shot at.

>>9805946
There is one in the Netherlands called Summertales Boutique. The Netherlands is extremely tiny, I'm sure you could reach all main cities within one hour by train. I believe Summertales Boutique is the only shop in the West that sells Innocent World.

>>9805949
Chicago is not that dangerous, especially if you're not out in bad neighborhoods at night. I've spent plenty of time being a flashy tourist in Chicago with no problems.
I wouldn't want Chicago because the weather isn't that great, and it's not the best layout/set up imo. The somewhat central location would be a draw, I guess.

I think what SFE does, moving from location to location, is cool. For a country as big as the US, it would make more sense from an attendee's POV, but then you have the obvious planning/cost issues.

What I think would be really cool is an all-out event. Rent out an old mansion near a nice city with good attractions, turn it into a weekend long, fashion-focused slumber party. I realize this will never happen, but a girl can dream.

>>9805957
I think SFE has less costs and requires less planning because they do not bother with accommodation (imo a good thing because you can find cheaper accommodation that way if that's what you want) and their events are partly planned by the local comm

>>9805949
Chicago isn't dangerous at all. The violent crime is high because the population is so large and is generally concentrated in the south and west sides of the city, which are the hood areas. The actual city itself is fine; it's far safer than a lot of places in the midwest, St. Louis, Memphis, etc.

>>9805959
I personally like there to be designated rooms at least available so that the event can easily continue with parties and whatnot into the night.

Looking at "castles" and mansions in the US, accommodation could be as cheap as $20 a night/person for a huge estate.

So who wants to make a new event? I'm down for it. I'm in SF.

>>9805898
midwesterner detected lmfao, no one in their right mind would travel to columbus ohio for a tiny con

>>9805545
Too bad SF is obscenely cost prohibitive for anyone not making six figures. Also you'd better love walking up a hill both ways to shop for burando because oh god the hills...

>>9806185
For living there maybe. If you're just visiting its fine.

My eurofag friends who've visited the US said SF was their fave and LA was the worst. Just my 2c.

>>9806195
>visited the US
>SF and LA
California isn't representative of the whole US anon.

SF is terrible to get around even with an Uber. What else is there? Connecticut did have NY, but even that was also terrible for public transport with a subway delay of 20 minutes and bus time tables inconveniently spread apart. The US simply has bad public transport. The best I've seen is maybe Seattle, but that really only works if you're in the city.

SF is also probably our best choice in the US weather-wise. It’s nice (read: cool) enough there to wear lolita year-round, never quite gets cold enough to snow but summers aren’t hot either, so any time of year would be fine for the con.

>source: I live down in OC but have had family in the bay for 2 decades, loooove wearing lolita up there

>>9806244
>California isn’t representative of the whole US

No, but it’s the only part of it foreigners have any interest in visiting.

>>9806244
you know that BART, muni, and cable cars in the touristy areas (I.e, the ones lolitas would want to see while visiting) also exist, right?

>>9806247
A SF lolita con sounds kinda cool to me but that might be because I'm a brute New Englander that's never seen the West Coast before. It seems like there's enough cool stuff to do in the area to make a little mini vacation out of it.

>>9806244
I mean I could argue that it would be way better to have a jfashion event in Dortmund than in Vienna or Milan. But at the end of the day, people want to visit Vienna and Milan.

>>9804333
>lets talk about the vip gift bags. that's why the attendance was down.

Actually, in 2016 the VIP bags were pretty good. It was in 2017 when the VIP bags went to shit. I think there's a few different reasons why attendance went down in the last year, but it definitely wasn't the gift bags, especially considering most of the VIP people (especially premium) were the same folks who have attended the con for multiple (or all 4) years.

>>9806256
That’s it exactly. Holding a convention in the middle of nowhere is a recipe for failure because if a small diasporic community is going to travel to a central location it has to be a place that itself has some draw.

I’m a West Coaster who feels the same about if the convention were in Boston or Manhattan, lol ^^

>>9805484
DC would be a nice choice!

Plus, most of the museums are free

>>9806244
putting in my 2c here and s/o to my local city, but I think Philly might be a good location for this? There are a couple of historical colonial houses that are available as event spaces (and mansions outside the city, but only accessible by car). There's enough to do in the city that'll make the trip worth it (food, historical, and touristy shit), location is good (between nyc and baltimore), and adequate public transit in center city and to/from the airport and amtrak station. The only thing is price-wise (for the venue) it isn't really that much cheaper to do an event here compared to nyc. I'm also a lazy fuck that doesn't want to deal with the bs that comes with planning a multi-day event.

>>9806293
This was also meant as a reply to this >>9805484

>>9806251
No one uses the cable cars for actual transportation though unless you have a lot of time to kill.

>>9806292
>>9806293
West coast gull who would also visit DC or Philly for a con, I wanna do historical tourism before I get too old to enjoy travel

>>9806308
So... like tourists. In town for a convention. Wanting to see the sights, not needing to get to work on time.

>k

>>9806312
I don't want to waste time in transport on my vacation anon.

>>9805949
Like the other anons said, Chicago isn’t that bad unless you’re on the south side or something. I think a good place to host it would be in rosemont where they host acen. It’s right by ohare so if you fly in, you can just get on one of the free shuttles. There’s a nice ballroom, that cute garden, and plenty of good backgrounds for photos. The main issue is that the venue is probably too big and expensive for a Lolita only event.

>>9804193
>Please don't do it in a bumfuck state just because it's cheaper.
it was in the state the organizers lived in...

>>9805545
Boston
Baltimore
Portland (Maine)

So.. Are we planning the next Lolita con? Anyone in this thread have money and event hosting experience? I would love to volunteer. I'm in new england.

>>9806475
>Baltimore
U wot m8...

>>9806248
>what is New York City?
>what is Disneyworld?
>what is Mardi Gras?
Imma call bullshit on this, anon.

>>9804010
>Why didn't those brands sue Simplicity?
Well, we live in the U.S., and you can't really sue people without a copyright or patent on your design. The majority of independent designers aren't hitting up the patent office or getting copyrights plastered on their designs. In the U.S., until you have that patent or copyright, it's a total free-for-all. The only exception is artwork, and even then it'd have to be an identical copy to hold up in court. Without the copyright, they can just redraw the design with minor alterations, and it will pass.

>>9806309
>too old to enjoy travel
So...like 80 then? Otherwise, wtf?

Continuing with that, if Simplicity did make patterns based off independent designers then chances are Simplicity put a patent on them. You can't really legally do anything if you went to court asking to sue Simplicity for a design they own the patent for. They aren't going to care, "Well, who made it first?" They're only going to care about whoever sent in the patent first.

>>9806560
Children make travel a horror. Yet I want to have them. Sage for off topic.

>>9806587
>>9806560

What are babysitters. What is having organised time away from children so you can be refreshed and take care of them again.

>>9806588
I’m guessing you’re in your 20s. Wait a while. Now stop shitting up this thread.

>>9806590

At least you're responsible and putting a stop to your bullshit that you started. Much appreciated anon.

This is a bit unconventional for a con but since a couple of you guys have issues with big cities and transportation do any of you know any small touristy towns worth holding an event in?
There's a nice touristy hippie town in California called Santa Cruz, they have a nice sized boardwalk with a good sized event spaces in the boardwalk. I feel like that would be a neat place for an event.

>>9807327
I'm sorry, but it's literally Wonder Warf from Bob's Burgers :3

>>9806563
1 Simplicity is just the distributor, tje designer is marked on the packaging so simplicity isnt doing anything and
2 you can't patent, trademark or copywrite generic clothing pieces. >>9806563
rosettes, bear bonnets and bonnets are not new nor are they innovative so they can't be patented

>>9803842
Damn. this gif is the reason I stopped going to meets. I love the fashion but the people in it are so fucking annoying.

>>9807327
It'll pretty much be forever small, but I support your idea. Are there any venues big enough for it?

>>9804662
>i don't have an opinion on this whole debacle
then why be in this thread?

>>9806481
What really sucks about 4chan these days is that no one really gets anything done anymore. cgl included. This place is too much of a clusterfuck to actually pull together an event. I hope some people out there prove me wrong, but I'm pretty convinced that everyone here is too busy trying to be the most of an asshole as they can to actually get anything done.

>>9807402
Its fun to watch gulls shit on each other

>>9807435
You gotta point there.

>>9803820
RuffleCon did not need help scaring away indie designers considering how poorly it treated the ones it had.

>>9803976
Agreed. It's weird Rufflecon claimed 'We wanted non-lolitas' considering how ass they were to decora/fairy-kei/yumekawaii

Getting VIP tickets + costs of going is equivalent to just going to a good lolita event in europe, so that's what I'm doing this year.

>>9806292
>>9806309
DC com does bigger meets that are a lot of fun, I'm 5hrs out, but I make the drive in because I have a friend I can stay with 10/10 do recommend.

>>9805957
>>9805949
>>9805933
Chicago would be great if it weren't for K (sketchy dude who runs many midwest cons)

>>9807561
K runs anime cons. His gf is a lolita (which is why his cons have lolita guests) but she isn’t going to bother to organize anything besides bringing Baby to his cons.

>>9806559
It's extremely extremely difficult to copyright fashion and even if they had filed something, it probably wouldn't have made it very far in a courtroom.

>>9804019
>he
>/cgl/
>current year +3

>>9807405
There are actually some of us that are working on things and these threads can be useful for gauging what people actually care about. As for a group of people getting together from 4chan to plan something --- no. But a group of people who go on 4chan, ---yes.

>>9807561
Re DC Comm --- Thank you. Alot of us try real hard to make things happen that are actually worth it. <3

>>9808582
On that note, what are some things that are important to people who read these threads, besides location?

Do you need an overseas designer guest? Do you care about panels? (Assume the panels are tailored to a j-fashion or lolita specific audience already, so not the general 101 panels you'd find at an anime con.) Fashion shows? Coordinate contests?

>>9803836
In all seriousness, though, there were death threats.

>>9808585
>Designer guest
>Good brand shopping options
>Fashion shows
>Good tea party
Idgaf about panels

>>9808593
Proof?

>>9808595
If there aren't panels, are there other activities besides shopping, eating, and watching fashion shows that people would want? If it's an all day or 2 day event, that might not be enough. Maybe a Q&A with the brand guest(s)?

>>9805545
>>9805640
Also interested in seeing it in SF.

>>9808595
This. I just want fashion shows, a tea party, and brands to buy shit from. Cute and elegant decor is expected.

I feel like panels are always drastically overrated (at lolita-focused events), other than the workshop/funny/party ones. While a few people approach events as some kind of lecture series, most of us already know any in-depth information, and a lot of people don't want to wear heavy lolita gear and then sit on an uncomfortable chair for hours...

I would think more photo op stations or fancier scenery would be a better lolita "investment" than the same tired topics.

>>9808619
Can you not read the thread, newfag? It's posted here. They even made an official statement about it.

>>9808585
>>9808621
>photo booths (either a decorated space for photos to be taken or offered by professional photography)
>brand guest presentations (on their work, past processes, their favourite prints they've worked on)
>non-brand shopping (indie brands, loose leaf teas, chocolates, loliable artisan crafts)
>panels on clothing care or closet management, flower arrangement, trivia games (name the print, name the brand, etc)
>ruffle raffles
>tabletop games
>evening dance? idk, would imagine pettis to get in the way
>live music
>lolita films
>arcade, gachapon


sorry for the random ass idea vomit, but there ya go

>>9808647
>evening dance? idk, would imagine pettis to get in the way
Dancing in lolita is actually really fun, specifically because of the poof, as long as you pick shoes that won't kill you and anyone you ever cared about. I'd be up for this.

>>9808647
I think any ideas that people actually want are appreciated. I don’t have event planning experience personally, but I have friends who do, and I’m hoping to help them with some future events.

Another thing - how important are VIP perks and goody bags to people?

>>9808757
I'd say I definitely enjoy VIP perks and goody bags. People always are down for free items. As for exactly what kind of perks and free items, it depends. The more the money, the more I expect. I went to Rufflecon as a regular member and my friend was premium (in 2016) and she got like, free rolls of ribbon and lace, a JSK, a tea pot, a custom brooch, tea samples, two or three accessories, some rufflecon swag (tote, water bottles), meal tickets, and of course the other stuff like early seating/access to panels, events, and the marketplace, a personal photoshoot, and the VIP dinner with the convention guests. It made me shell out 200 bucks for deluxe for 2017 (although we all know how the perks for deluxe and premium members turned out).

If it's just a smaller scale event we're talking about, and there's regular + VIP, I'd say something like a totebag, a cup/mug/bottle/etc, a nice custom brooch/badge, and maybe one or two little items (perhaps from the vendors) would be nice. Or something like a ticket for a free drink if there's cocktails at the event for example. Like I said it depends on the event and the tiers/levels you have, but there's definitely a lot of creative ways to give out perks to people. But they have to be worth it - the only reason people shelled out cash for deluxe and premium at RC is because people felt they were getting a decent value. Even though I was extremely disappointed with the goody bags for deluxe the last year of RC, I felt like early access to events and the marketplace were worth it for me.

>>9808787
I don’t think a JSK or a tea pot were part of VIP - maybe she won those at thr tea party or something? I remember getting a mug. They really screwed up the bags this last year.

>>9808647
I mostly go to cons for the artist alleys and vendors. I would love to go dancing in Lolita that sounds cute.
Maybe a novelty ufo catcher where you have the chance to win some neat high ticket items.

>>9808647
What about live entertainment, that sounds neat? Idk what maybe an illusionist a choreographed dance, something like that?

>>9808918
This reminds me of the bellydancer debacle. I'd prefer a quartet of classical musicians or something than dance-performers.

>>9808824
Nope. She was premium (the highest most expensive tier). Deluxe was the middle tier and never got as much stuff. If you were premium too that same year then idk, maybe the bags varied between people but she got the jsk and tea pot like, on Thursday night when she picked up her badge, I remember her showing us her stuff in the lobby. This was in 2016.

>>9808621
Not that anon, but I love the sewing /historical/lifestyle panels. I loved a lot of the panels at Rufflecon and was sad I couldn't attend all the ones I had wanted to (though 2016 panels were better than last year).

Uh. But it was simplicity man.

>>9808990
Stop trying to push this ~lol so ironic it totally wasn't simplicity~. Simplicity was a large part of the reason why Rufflecon died, and pretending to be retarded isn't going to change that.

>>9808918
I think it would be more helpful for future event planners to stick to things you would personally like to see, more than "fun lol random ideas." We don't need AM 2.0 with random fireworks and people on horseback. Which actually plausible event components are important to you?

>>9808936
Ah, I forgot there was the higher tier option. What brand was the JSK? I am just curious.

>>9808918
uh, i'm pretty sure the live entertainment would be more along the lines of jpop bands

>>9809243
With what budget???

>>9809939
With the same budget they'd have to hire out any other kind of live entertainment? Y'all are delusional if you think most lolitas are going to be interested in watching classical musicians or illusionists lmao

>>9809944

Not everyone is weeb like you. Some of us appreciate the finer things in life.

>>9809944
Doesn't change the fact that Japanese guests are very expensive to book.

>>9809945
Great, you're not a weeb. Unfortunately most guests will be, and 1 gull crying about weebs isn't going to drown out 100+ attendees that will want to see jpop bands

>>9809952
Yea, so are other live entertainments, and Japanese guests would actually drive ticket sales compared to a random quartet or illusionists.

>>9809957
Then you're going to have to tolerate other kinds of fans showing up too because the word will spread to non-lolita otaku and creepy neckbeards. Will you make a rule that people can't enter the con or even register without a coord or lacemarket profile?

>>9809965
You're either going to have normies or you're going to have the con die in a couple years. Lolitas themselves aren't enough to fund entire convention.

>>9809966
Our subculture does not need mops.

>>9810976
Then have fun not having any conventions to go to

You guys think that maybe Lolita doesn't really warrent a two day con experience? Maybe just a nice event to spend the afternoon is enough. I honestly can't think of enough things to do that related strictly to one fashion.

>>9809957
Is it impossible to have both? what the fuck?

>>9806292
>>9806309
>>9807561

Yeah, some of us are butthurt sjw and won't set foot in the city with a certain someone in office. While that may sound appealing to edgy seagulls, it would cut down on a lot of people who will go because they are either that self-righteous or too afraid to go against the sjw crowd.

>>9806293
Actually, this would be pretty awesome. Enough of us could feel like tourists. I'd love to see a Lolita-centric con where brands showed up and had pop-up shops. Sort of like a 3 day La Foret. Harajuku.

>>9805545
It would be very expensive for the East Coast crowd, who already don't have a lot going on for them like the West Coast has in the first place so it would have to be very amazing and pretty much the opposite of Rufflecon. VIP tickets would have to not be so impossible, gen tickets in general not hard to get a hold of, accommodations affordable, and amazing shopping. If it could be made OTT enough to justify the expenses then the stores would definitely be a bonus, otherwise it may scare off some East Coasters who kind of feel like the West Coast already gets enough brand sucking their comm's collective dick. It would pretty much have to be like a Milan Lolita event with some of the above mentioned La Foret Harajuku worth of shopping.

>>9811026
Obviously you don't know the fashion.

>>9811113
You're talking about an imaginary startup con; why the fuck are they going to waste money on the type of live entertainment only five people are actually going to go see. Are you retarded?

>>9811150
>won't set foot in the city with a certain someone in office

west coast sjw here, i genuinely do not think this is going to be a serious problem, it's not like the city of DC has anyone in it who supports the administration anyway.

>>9809243
Why would you do that? At least get something like Disacode or Kokushoku Sumire

>>9811026
I think a lot of the activities mentioned here (and that are normal at anime conventions), are a waste of money for a lolita event. Let's be real here, most people will go for the brand tea-party. The majority doesn't care about a magician or a jpop group or a sewing panel. Have a tea-party with designers one day, and have a q&a the other day. Besides that just invite a bunch of American inside designers to sell stuff on the q&a day. Not necessary to do it at a hotel, it's not big enough for that and people are old enough to book their own accommodation.

>>9811026 #
I think a lot of the activities mentioned here (and that are normal at anime conventions), are a waste of money for a lolita event. Let's be real here, most people will go for the brand tea-party. The majority doesn't care about a magician or a jpop group or a sewing panel. Have a tea-party with designers one day, and have a q&a the other day. Besides that just invite a bunch of American indie designers to sell stuff on the q&a day. Not necessary to do it at a hotel, it's not big enough for that and people are old enough to book their own accommodation.

>>9807398
You must be fun to be around anon.

>>9811281
>why would you want japanese bands
>lists japanese bands
are you daft

>>9811300
Visual kei isn't jpop.. Those groups are relevant to lolitas/harajuku styles

>>9811322
Kokusyoku Sumire is jpop

>>9805965
I would enjoy a more freeform event with a few main draws at a US castle where we were mostly able to do as we pleased.

>>9809944
At a lolita event, I'd much rather see a quartet or chamber choir than a jpop guest.

>>9811350
5 gulls saying this isn't going to sell an entire audience of tickets, unfortunately.
japanese bands are clearly going to sell better than a quartet or choir that no one knows about and has no relation to the fashion in the first place.

>>9811232
Considering its imaginary - none of this matters, you fucking retard.

>>9811294
And you must be one of those people that thinks its fun to wreck shit and stand on chairs like a child.

>>9811278
Isn't DC known for being a fairly violent city? Regardless of who is in office.

>>9811505
>w-why didn't you like my idea!!!
>w-well it doesn't matter anyways!!!!!!!!!
kek, got some real sour grapes there don't you

>>9811510
If you're not out in the ghetto areas at 2 AM chances are you'll be fine. What rural/suburban hellhole do people like you live in that you think lolitas in areas with thousands of tourists visiting per year would have to be worried about getting stabbed by crazed thugs in broad daylight?

And if you're a foreigner concerned about America's gun violence in big cities, don't be, it's really rare and wouldn't be an issue to hosting a lolita convention.

>>9811571
Why would foreigners visit the US for a lolita event?

>>9811603
Because it's a fun reason to travel and see a city? I'm not expecting Europeans to come to East Bumfuck but if it's in a city that they would find interesting for other tourism reasons, then why not? Same reason I go to SFE events - to shop, see the sights, and hang out with my overseas friends.

>>9811615
Then it has to be SF, NY, LA or LV. Europeans do not visit America to see cities in general, they go for nature.

>live in middle of nowhere eastern Connecticut
>Rufflecon got canned the year I finally put my dream coord together
Feels bad

>>9808642
a few non-guest lolita panels at RuffleCon were at or near capacity. they tended to be academic (history of representation of witches) or cultural (black hair/dark skin in kawaii fashion), not about buying or blogging or anything typical.

replica panels with donated replicas gathered from embarrassed ex-replicachans are fun when the items can be passed around.

the first RC had a room that showed short films. a similar contest or film festival for a jfash event would be excellent. the community needs to reward more types of content creators.

plus, attendee-submitted panels give people who are not already on staff incentive to invest in future events. panelists who provide X amount of programming get comped passes for next year, etc.

>>9811750
Why would you want to copy things that RC did? They obviously weren't succesful. I think we should look at succesful events. Why don't other lolita events need big sponsors?

>>9811753
talking about successful panels is not copying, gull

my jfash con wishlist:

>emphasize creators and designers
guest designers often have panels and such, but many indie vendors and especially artists are overlooked. a jfash event is a perfect place to spotlight the people who provide, rather than only consume, for the community. instead of a typical "vendor area" that relies mostly on pre-con marketing to attract shoppers, something like a questionnaire included in the guidebook could be made. attendees take a "quiz" about their fashion style, budget, any shopping restrictions (i.e., vegan, metal allergies) and the "results" would be the names of vendors to find.

artists who draw or paint should have their own space so they do not get lost in the tables or booths of floral arrangements and giant hats. and ideally, the questionnaire would include points about commissions (at-con only, to avoid fraud), so people know they can get a sketch or full color drawing of their coord. (or, for the non-drawing artists, a custom version of an accessory to match your coord).

>Emergency Fashion Services
an onsite area that sells wig caps and petticoats and pins and such. for a multi-day fashion event, this should be mandatory.

>Makeup Artist emphasis
MUAs do well at comic cons for things like face painting or making you a zombie. some tables or booths where you can pay a MUA to prettify your face would work well for a multi-day lolita event. additionally, live tutorials or demonstrations to both show off these artists' skills and provide a learning experience more interactive than a YouTube video would be a great workshop or panel track.

>>9811785
ctd.

>Coord ContestS
plural!! usually there is one coord contest, and the flashiest OTT lolita coord wins. for a starter jfash event, splitting the contest into different categories would be better. a bit more like an anime or comic con, with industry guests or indie designers judging for different categories. at the very least, separating EGL (including boystyle) from "other" jfash would be preferrable. also, it would be fun to require entrants fit the year's theme, and judge accordingly.

>Speed-Befriending
every single convention has people feeling lonely and unsure how to connect with others. here is a fun way to raise money (a minimum payment helps dissuade the unserious) and match people up.

>21+ night time mixed drinks event
make fancy jfash-themed cocktails and hang out with adults.

>more interactivity in general
basically, my ideas are for an event that has more interaction between attendees and vendors, or attendees and each other, to avoid the passive consumption that makes lolita events boring unless they are heavily sponsored by big name companies. without a draw like major brands or distinguished guests (which a first-year con especially may have trouble getting), a multiday jfash con needs to emphasize the unique in-person, IRL experiences. tactile, physical, interactive components will increase the feeling of having got your money's worth, as opposed to shopping (which you can do online) and panels (which you can also do online).

>online content
also, streaming some content like fashion shows via an app or website would be nice. if you miss a main event due to a commitment elsewhere, you can check in on your phone. this may need an extra charge, but if it does, non-attendees could maybe also pay the fee to scope out main events from a distance. if the platform for streaming is already there for attendees, might as well make extra $$ to put toward better guests next year!

>>9811785
I would LOVE for someone to do my hair or make-up

>>9811150
>>9811278
Having been to DC several time since we elected annoying orange, the city itself is very very progressive and very opening. Don't judge the city (or the lovely lolitas in it) by the people who gamed the system.

Regardless, most of the DC com meets I've been to weren't held in DC proper, but nearby, often between DC and Baltimore since those coms do a lot of overlapping events.

>>9812020
Its too expensive to do shit in DC for something small. Everything is rented out by business people so they expect business money. Also there really is very little thats elegant in the area. Lots of tourist stuff, yeah, some great food, yeah, but at the cost of congestion and high prices.

I veto DC in favor of somewhere that is actually pretty.

>>9806558
Also:
>What is Hawaii
>What is Graceland (No idea why)
>What is really a lot of places

California's the only place where the cancer is so metastasized that bug-chasing is decriminalized and they still act like they're better than the states they rely on for water lmao.

I was aggravated that the people running the 2017 consignment room brought their baby in with them all weekend. You couldn’t find a sitter? Or have someone watch the baby elsewhere? I don’t want to hear a baby screaming their lungs out while I’m trying to spend $$$$$. Also, isn’t it liable that the baby could have thrown up or something on someone’s clothes?

Fuck Simplicity, and Rufflecon blaming them. They fucked up their own convention with their unprofessionalism and sloppiness.

I also hated “e-famous” lolitas and friends of the staff getting special privileges for no reason.

>>9812072
What, like moldy hotel, Stamford, CT was pretty?

>>9813055
never saw or heard a baby in there. and it obviously did not puke on anything.

stay mad about dumb shit, though.

>>9811785
Digging your ideas Anon.

>>9813120
No. CT was awful. The drive there sucked. Rufflecon sucked.

>>9804041
It works for Nintendo.

>>9814651
You're comparing Nintendo to a tiny (i.e. one-person) indie brand

>>9806293
>>9806309
Man I wish Philly could work. The con center is on the edge of Chinatown and the bus station is a block away. But cons have also always failed to stay in Philly, one of the only two just left it to be in Atlantic City after the venue kicked them out just before the con's weekend this past year. The subway is also the most disgusting I've ever known and I'd freak at the idea of wearing brand in them.

>>9811502
Why are you saying this with such finality? If I had to stereotype, I'd say sweet lolitas would prefer a jpop group. Classical lolitas would prefer classical music. Classical is way more popular right now, enabled by non-print Taobao releases. And I could see a group of ladies sitting down listening to music comfortably much better than a bunch of people getting sweaty in pettis trying to bop to jpop.

>>9815275
Because you can look at demographics of who buys tickets to what, and just because you enjoy wearing a certain style doesn't mean you'll automatically like X music lol.
Anyone with half a brain can tell that a japanese band will appeal to the demographic of a japanese fashion convention much better than classical music will, even if 2 anons on 4chinz want to self insert themselves into the perfect kawaii lifestyle

the lolita community is insanely toxic and famous for shooting themselves in the foot.

literally nobody but lolitas are surprised.

>>9815278
yeah, to be frank, you'd have more success inviting a gothic band than a classical ensemble. as ridiculous as the idea of conflating labels assigned to lolita styles with labels assigned to musical styles is, at least there is a big overlap FOR SURE between lolitas and goth. still, visual kei or jpop would make more sense.

a classical ensemble playing during the tea party is one thing. for a concert, it would not work.

>>9811502
Make it 6. And a quartet is a lot cheaper than a Jpop band, there will be some locally, and as long as they're competent, you don't need name recognition.

If a con can find some musicians who are closet weebs, they may even be able to get the for the price of panelist badges and a free room, depending on how many times they'll be expected to perform.

What about orchestral arrangements of popular jpop/kpop/weeb songs?

>>9815275
Because visual kei and lolita have had overlap?

>>9818713
I like how it went to "jpop groups" to "visual kei band", nice moving goalposts.

If an actual visual kei or Japanese band came then they'd have to pay for multiple international flights. You can find classical musicians in every city. It all doesn't matter thought because they shouldn't be wasting money on entertainers.

>>9805965
BS, what US castle would cost that cheap? How many people are you expecting to go? I doubt any are acceptable venues.

>>9818724
I know it’s hard to believe, but there’s more than one anon that disagrees with you.

>>9818724
The point is, any cost that the musicians would incur wouldn’t be worth it because it wouldn’t drive any ticket sales. People might go listen as an afterthought, but no one would decide to go to a convention because of a no name quartet of classical musicians. and yes, you do have to spend money on entertainers or guests at any con, otherwise the only thing people will possibly come to your convention for is to party. ~200 lolitas isn’t enough foot traffic to run a convention.

>>9818724
Oh my god no one cares Janet.