/ck/ - Food & Cooking

They're not sentient.
t. vegan

>>15088699
All vegetarians should be pescatarians.

>>15088699
They have preganglia which precludes sentience

They're just faceless fish but they live.

>>15088699
Scallops do this weird clapping motion to swim and move around. It's funny to watch. We don't really eat the ENTIRE scallop creature - just it's "foot" that keeps it connected to the shell. The "adductor " muscle.

Scallops are the vegetables of the sea. As are clams and oysters. Vegetarians treat their vegetarianism as their religion. You can't convince them that scallops, oysters, and clams are perfectly OK to eat.

>>15088699
I love to watch this video of the two whitest guys who ever lived (other than they are jewish) eating oysters. Vegetarians, it is OK to eat oysters, they are more meat than vegetable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2WQ00cw6rk

>>15088699
Scallops, like all mollusks have no true brain but do have a central nervous system. Scallops also have eyes OP which is kind of cool if you didn't know that
Animals with no central nervous system would be:
>Cnideria (jellyfish, sea anemones, hydra, coral)
>Ctenophores (comb jellyfish)
>Echinoderms (starfish, sea urchins, sand dollars)
>Bryozoa
>Sponges
So these would be the only truly pseudo-vegetarian animals to eat

>>15088725
So what happens to it when it's made footless?

>>15088759
>Jews eating shellfish
Uhhh

>>15088728
They're animals, they're more comparible to worms and snails. Vegetation of the sea is seaweed and sea grass.

>>15088855
>Scallops also have eyes
For fucks sake anon. Tell me to sit down for shit like this. That's actually very fascinating.

>>15088707
This. Fish are too fucking stupid to be considered animals.

>>15088707
I'm a pescapescatarian. I only eat fish that eat other fish

>>15088868
it is defeeted

>>15088868
It dies. When you shuck a scallop, you rip basically everything off of the main foot muscle and throw it away. You can technically eat the "mantle" around the outside of the flesh, but the rest are just trash-guts and shit you wouldn't want to eat anyway.

>>15088707
Why? Except for catfish and tilapia, fish is the least sustainable animal food

>>15089232
Fishing is also the cause of 99% of the ocean pollution.

>>15088699
How do people still not know what veganism means in 2020?

scallops aren't sentient and a good source of protein BUT the method of harvesting them is pretty detrimental to the environment they live in
farmed oysters are a much more sustainable choice

>>15089282
there are good arguments for bivalve mollusks being vegan friendly
it kind of depends what veganism means to you but farmed oysters are possibly the most sustainable, green crop there is

>>15088949
why do people eat these sea boogers at all? Like I get it if you're living in an ancient fishing village and you need every source of food you can get, but there's other foods available now that don't look like something I sneezed out of my mouth.

never had scallops before desu but I'm a fan of oysters

>>15089274
>fishing
uh, you misspelled medical waste

>>15088699
they look disgusting

>>15088707
I'm a carnopescaovolactovegetarian.

>>15089301
>it kind of depends what veganism means to you but farmed oysters are possibly the most sustainable, green crop there is
That's an argument for vegetarians eating bivalve mollusks, but not vegans. You'd have to compare them to something like yeast or fungi for them to be vegan friendly, and I've never heard anyone make that argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRbv518eJbs&ab_channel=EpitaphRecords

>>15088914

>>15089309
scallops are fine. a bit overpriced imo.
they're great sources of protein and are on the opposite end of the fish taste spectrum. soft-chewy texture as well. i believe it's everything to do with the sauce when it comes to scallops.

>>15089389
just because you haven't heard the argument doesn't mean it doesn't exist

>>15089274
Substitute fishing for China.

Most of the oceanwater pollution come from just a handful of major rivers in Africa, India, and Asia. The ones that are in Asia ALL go through China at some point, two going directly through China into the ocean.

Let's not even get into their fishing habits. They perpetually fish in other peoples' waters in massive quantities, quite illegally. Someone finally had the nuts to detain that oil tanker they converted into a fishing boat/processing facility that every country had banned.

>>15088699
>eating filter feeders
enjoy your bioaccumulated metals. all filter feeders concentrate nasty shit in the water

>>15088710
Plants live

>>15089503
I've heard all the arguments. Vegans don't consume animal products, period. Anyone claiming to be a vegan but making an exception for scallops isn't a vegan, and would be called out by other vegans immediately.

>>15089232
Fish farms. Checkmate libtard

>>15088855
Ased knowledgable anon
>have a pic

>>15088759
>Two of the whitest guys who ever lived (other than they are Jewish)
Then they aren't white at all, rabbi.

>>15088707
I know fish are technically animals on a biological perspective, they have the sentient of a vegetable. There's a reason they were called 'fruit of the sea'.

>>15089509
FucK I hate the chinese govt so much bros

>>15089302
You've obviously never had one before. This means you're one of those chicken tendies bois. Probably live in Ohio or Wisconsin too.

>>15089566
that's why no one takes you retards seriously

>>15089642
>people don't take you seriously because words have meanings
I'm not even vegan or vegetarian, and never have been. That's just what "vegan" means. If you consume animal products you're not vegan. That's not controversial.

>>15089611
you can say that all you want but it will only begin to hold water when you personally adopt lifestyle changes which play a part in mitigating climate change

>>15089285
>BUT the method of harvesting them is pretty detrimental to the environment they live in
This, I stopped eating them for about 25 years. Then last year /ck/ informed me that scallops are now farmed just like oysters and have been since roughly a few seconds after I stopped eating them. Sure enough, nearly all of them at the store are labeled as being farmed. FML I could've been eating tasty scallops for the last 25 years without feeling guilty about it.

There are a few that are labeled as "wild caught" and you can avoid those if you want. I'd also probably stay away from them at high-end restaurants since they're more likely to use the more expensive wild ones.

>>15089682
they may have taken away your scallops, but they can never take away the genuine goodness in your heart

>>15089611
as much as that place is the lesser korea and japan, they do make good orange chicken AND also pioneer in producing hot, female-only bodyguard services for VIP's.

>>15089674
it is more controversial than you think, you're just small minded
if you want to be completely strict with your dogma vegans will starve since plants need animal products to grow

>>15089719
You're just pulling shit out of your ass. Again, I think vegans are retarded, but they are very strict, which is why they are Vegans, and not Vegetarians.

>>15089679
What does overfishing and ocean waste have to do with climate change? Why should we if they wont?

>>15088914

>>15089728
shit out of ass is excellent for plants
which is why plants aren't vegan friendly
educate yourself

>>15089476
I personally don't care for sauce with my scallops. Just the juices they were seared in and maybe some melted butter.

>>15089811
based

>>15088725
Talk for yourself. I eat everything on the scallop. The "coral" is delicious as well.

>>15088699
Everyone should, they have no more consciousness than plants, which are also cooler than them. Scallops are fucking delicious, but I only eat clams for the nutrition. Started incorporating the latter into my diet first and felt noticeably better afterwards despite already having eaten eggs all my life.

>>15088855
The lovecraftian scallops gaze through your soul with their million eyes

>>15088707
I was thinking about it but apparently wild caught fish are full of heavy metals and farmed are full of antibiotics. At least shellfish don't accumulate bullshit the same way, but still, what a disappointment.

>>15089616
i've had, they suck

>>15089942
>At least shellfish don't accumulate bullshit the same way
Filter feeders, like scallops accumulate it as well, since they filter a large volume of water. People use them as indicators of pollution

>>15089972
From what I read nothing meaningfully accumulates in the parts that people actually eat, though.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19680841/
Pretty sure that applied to oysters and clams too, but I can't find that as easily so fuck it.

>>15088707
I tried to date a pescatarian girl once, but it didn't work out. I don't get a long well with protestants.

>>15090001
>almost quads
looks legit. only one metal in the muscle part that people eat. and the research institute seems like it isn't an industry shill either

>>15090009
I tried to be a pescatarian girl once, but it didn't work out.

>>15090069
>almost quads
>not "over nine thousand"
Welcome, newfriend

>>15088914

>>15088699
>Is this MOLLUSK even an animal?
Are you fucking retarded?

>>15090069
>I was this close Gannon. That nigger would have been dead to rights if I didn't miss.

>>15088886
Can vegetarians eat algae?

>>15089942
That sounds scary until you realize that wild game mammals/birds are full of parasites, and factory-farmed mammals/birds are full of artificial hormones and often tainted with bacteria.

And it's not like plants are any better. Every few months, you hear of e-coli outbreaks traced back to salad greens, and stuff like canned beans/veggies contain an FDA-accepted level of insect bits and rodent feces.

>>15090277
Have a hard time believing e-coli and insect bits have the same long-term health damage potential as heavy metals and antibiotics.

>>15088906
Is that so?
Because I'm a pescatarianatarian, so I only eat pescatarians, and I've been wanting to make a human-seafood turducken for a while now.

I used to be a strict vegan for.several years, but started becoming unhealthy, so I decided to eat farmed mussels and I began to feel better, and then I just stopped denying life and being this withdrawing little wimp obsessed with trying to reduce the harm I cause, and decided to accept creation - all of it, the violence the brutality the tooth and claw nature of the world. Now I'm a lot happier, and I enjoy going fishing and killing things, because I have accepted the violence in myself and the world.

>>15089966
Not him but I dont believe you. The consistency of scallops is closer to a moist chicken tenderloin than it is to snot. You're thinking of oysters or something.

>>15090459
I'm gay btw if that matters so the only point of reference I have for most things in my mouth is cum.

>>15089274
Plastic bro and mecurty, what an erroneous statement

>>15088906
"I eat the fish."
"Yes, but when you clean the fish, don't leave the fish guts and shit in the sink."
"Yes, I eat the fish."
"Mother FUCK, JIAN YANG"

>>15088699
>>15088703
i knew a vegan who refused to eat yeast.... so...
some vegans are retarded.

>>15088906
I only eat animals that have been confirmed as attacking humans.

>>15091025
>some

>>15091024
suck it jian yang

>>15088699
I eat scallops, oysters, snails, and whatever doesn't have a meaingful sense of life or pain. I think most who don't eat them do it out of fear of "failing" being vegetarian/vegan

>>15088855
>like all mollusks have no true brain

[angry octopus noises]

>>15088699
You've made me hungry for scallops OP, I'd love to fry some up, however I don't live near the coast and I can't buy them fresh

>>15089509
>Implying India's Pollution isn't their own
Don't get tunnel vision and forget all the other enemies either. Fucking super pooper 2020 fucks need a reality check soon.

>>15091325

Flash frozen and shipped is just as good, if not better than fresh. Get some giant sea scallops and make some fettucini alfredo.

>>15091410
>Get some giant sea scallops and make some fettucini alfredo.
Mmmm, this sounds delicious

I like sushi scallops

>>15089232
How is it unsustainable

>>15088699
Well they have eyes, so obviously they are animals

>>15091545
potatoes have eyes

Scallops are serious business. Although compared to WW1 and WW2 the Scallops War was pretty minor
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Channel_scallop_fishing_dispute

>>15090277
No hormones in birds retard

>>15090459
>chicken tenderloin
Show me where that cuts at retard

>>15089698
They wont be able to protect anyone but look good doing it.

>>15089274
Fishing actually encourages regulations that discourage pollution because fishermen don't want their business to disappear, so no it is infact the opposite of what you say

>>15091032

>>15091071
mm ah ha

>>15092268
under the breast

>>15089728
Retard

>>15088699
Biologically speaking they're animals. How "sentient" or whatever they are is basically a philosophical questions, since it's pretty much impossible to prove one way or the other. Some people say fishes aren't sentient, some even say that of chickens etc.

But they are without a doubt animals.

I like bacon wrapped scallops and I dip them in mayonnaise

>>15092383
So... the breast? Because the thing under the breast is the breastbone.

>>15092926
the breast is one big muscle and the tenderloin is a smaller muscle between the breast and the sternum

do yourself a favor and buy a whole chicken or two and learn to butcher it yourself, you can see and learn the all the parts and you can stop looking foolish on the internet

>>15089616
not him but ive ordered them twice. Both times from a higher end restaurant and both times there was a crunch to them like they had some sand in it. First time i thought it was some mistake and then i tried them again at another high end seafood specialty place and it was more or less the same. Plus they were pretty gross to look at tbqh

>>15089566
oh no!

>>15092990
you got memed at a tourist trap or something
scallops shouldn't be gritty at all

>>15092998
they were both local with great reviews and were expensive but maybe

Don't eat scallops, OP. They're disgusting. Give them to me and I'll eat them for you. You can have my chicken tendies in exchange, as it's more on your level of palette maturity. Or maybe you'd prefer a grilled cheese or hot dog from the kids menu?

>>15093051
>it's more on your level of palette maturity. Or maybe you'd prefer a grilled cheese or hot dog from the kids menu?
What's with the straw man argument bud? OP clearly says that scallops are "10X more delicious (than vegetables) especially if you cook them up in some butter and lemon"

>>15092990
would you say the OP pic or any of the others are "gross to look at"? they are pretty inoffensive in appearance, just vaguely circular...things.

the orange crown in scallop is also tasty . tastes like egg yolk , i think its the scallops testicle

>>15089574
>>15091525
you gotta feed most fish other fish to grow. currently, most aquaculture relies on fish meal. Tilapia, carp and catfish can be raised vegetarian, but usually aren't because the fish meal allows for faster growth and more profits.

I think everything is in place to make aquaculture sustainable. We're going to have to get creative about which speices we call food, however.

>>15088914
faggot

>>15088708
>has eyes
>non-sentient
American education, ladies and germs.

>>15091325
I live on new england coast and I just buy the frozen bags, it lasts longer and they taste just as good.

>>15089302
They taste good you imbecile

>>15093308
Scallops may not look so good, especially raw, but they taste good. My wife’s vadge might not look good but it feels good on my wiener

>>15088855
u in wgm too m8?

>>15092268
why the fuck do you think they call them tenders

>>15088703
neither are fish, but for some reaaon a lot of vegans don't eat them.

>>15089509
>>15089611
>fuck bros China is so evil I hate them so much why do they pollute so much

because literally everything that you own and buy that isn't food is made in China.

>>15089719
>>15089811
plonts can be grown on synthetic nutes, but these kill soil life so you end up with a worse product

t. plont grower

>>15095654
>made in China.
Assembled. Most of the core components are made elsewhere.

>>15093656
The carp in my state literally jump out of the water. Take them

What does ck prefer, sea scallops or bay scallops?

>>15096406
Both are good.

>>15096406
Sea scallops are larger and are served at breakfast or brunch. Bay scallops are smaller and more tender are served at dinner

Scallops don't even taste like anything, it amazes me that people pay $15 for a plate of tasteless goo blobs.

>>15088914
...

>>15092273
>buggirls
>look good
hows the social credit anon?

>>15089302
on a scale of gwyneth to becky, how white are you?

>>15089694
Thanks, Anon, I appreciate it.

>>15088703
Prove that theyre not sentient. Lack of proof that they are doesnt price that they arent.

I eat scallops but this is a stupid argument

>>15099613
prove that the collection of neurons and cells composing your body create sentience, and that we're not all just bags of tissue wandering around, responding to the chemicals in our body and its demands.

>>15088699
Went swimming at the local beach one day years ago. Just lazied around in the nice cool water.
Running my hands through the sand on the bottom I found that it was absolutely crammed with scallops.
I naturally filled the pockets in my swimming shorts with them and hurried home. Very excited since seafood is expensive in this country despite it being almost entirely made up of coast.
Threw the scallops in the sink and went on the computer for a few minutes. Dinnertime was still a bit off.
Local news site had the entire frontpage dedicated to a warning about a huge sewage spill at the beach and was instructing people to absolutely not go swimming let alone eating anything caught there.
Threw out the scallops because in the end the risk just wasn't worth it for something I hadn't paid for.
Shame, though.

>>15099645
lol, I hope you didn't get hepatitis A, anon. That shit is no joke. Depending on how long it's been you might want to get your liver tested

I'm vegan. I can eat whatever the fuck I want. I *choose* not to eat animal products. There is no "can't eat xyz", I am choosing not to, as a boycott of immoral industries.

Secondly, scallops have eyes, if wild caught they're just a byproduct of bottom trawling (obviously immoral), if farm raised its probably better but I still see no need to eat them. Theres a chance they can suffer, so why take the risk? Is there some magical nutrient in this bottom feeder I need? No. So why eat it?

>>15089316
Idiot just say omnivore

>>15088707
No, either stick with your non meat diet or give it up and just eat all meat. Fuck these faggy half measures.

>>15100107
There are some medical reasons to not eat red meat or poultry

>>15100109
That’s fine. I mean the people who are vegetarian for “ethical” reasons but will still eat fish and seafood.

>>15092605
Taxonomy is only microscopically less arbitrary than the sentience boolean.

>>15088725
look at him go!

>>15088914
Lol

>>15096953
>calls them goo blobs
You're thinking of oysters dipshit. Scallops are pretty firm and have a nice natural sweetness to them.

>>15099641
You cant, this isnt a counter argument to saying that scallops arent sentient is a dumb argument because by your logic sentience cant be proved in anything so its a moot point. Either way deeming scallops edible to vegetarians based on the idea of sentience is illogical

>>15100692
what do scallops feel like bros
>>15100703
that's the point I'm making. Sentience is a moot point. All we do is assign higher intelligence to creatures that we kill/consume to justify whether it's ok to eat them. How can you prove that plants are sentient and don't feel pain? Many species react to physical stimuli, like sound and touch. Do we say so just because the methods of intercellular signaling are different than in animal cell eukaryotic life? What about single celled life, like yeast? Yeast colonies react to outside stimuli as well. Should we just say that neurons are the basis of intelligence and stop there? Or maybe you require a central nervous system, or something beyond a proto-brain? Should we just continue measuring how intelligent something is based on its behaviors and how it interacts with the world and the organisms in it?

In the end, you have to kill something to consume it. We're not plants, we can't use photosynthesis. This is one of the great sins of creation, that our bellies even ache in the first place.

>t. biologist

>>15100755
Them we agree, its all meaningless anon. Eat or dont eat whatever you want for whatever reason but the scallops arent sentient while other sea creatures are is a bad argument

>>15100784
pretty much any dietary restrictions are dictated by dogmas, religious or otherwise. Halal, kosher, hindu diets. Clean vs unclean.

From what I can tell you pick things that you don't want to eat because of your moral code. Pigs? Unclean, non kosher. Why? bible. Cows? sacred, protected animals. Dogs? Cats? Those are pets, so we shouldn't eat them. (I personally couldn't do it, but the argument as to why still applies here.) Mammals? Avians? You shouldn't eat those, but fish are stupid! You can eat them. Vegetarianism and veganism basically just measure how much suffering you ostensibly create by eating meat and animal products, and try to counter it by eating what's essentially "kosher" to whatever sect of vegetarianism they participate in. At least in my opinion, this type of dogma has replaced religion in many people. I don't necessarily find it bad or destructive, but it should just be taken as truth.

I can't blame people for living by their moral codes, but what gives me pause the most often is that when people try to justify their choices, no matter what it is, they claim it's the objective truth. I won't rant too much as to avoid being a /lit/ pseud, but I probably already have, lol.

I can't speak as much to those who argue for efficiency via entropy reduction, but that also falls within a borderline dogmatic school of thought. Honestly, I just wanna grill.

>>15088699
yes they are animals and sentient, they swim away to avoid predators

also all vegans and vegetarians are faggots, look at skinnyfat northern Indians, that's the fate that awaits you.

They are taxonomically classified as animals, yes. Depends person to person whether vegans will eat "non sentient" animals or not.

>>15088914
Laughed out loud fucking lmao

>>15088759
Jews arent white. Do you have eyeballs? I can see those kike faces and skull shapes a mile away. Look at those criminal sloping foreheads

>>15097133
It's a step up from Amerimutts at least.

>>15088904
They still feel pain

>>15089282
oh,, we know, we just dont give a carnivore shit

>>15102162
by that logic /pol/tards are not white either
i can spot their weak chin, dumb watery eyes, subhuman height and fucked up skin from a mile away.
not to mension the smell

>>15102200
Who gives a shit lmao it’s a stupid ass fish

>>15088699
Yeah, they're dumb as fuck, that said, if you ever tried to open a living oyster/scallop/mussel, they clearly don't want to be eaten

>>15088699

MYEESSS but what if they could become more advanced life in millions of years and we have eaten all the sponge fagguettes precursor SPONGE PEOPLE BIVALVE MAN SPONGE MAN CORAL REEEF MAN

UJMMMMM IS IT OKAY TO EAT ANIMAL IF YOU'RE VEGAN

no retard. they're vegan. no animals. you're argument is "can the definition of a word be different because of whether it's 'okay' or not to do something"

NO magical thinking faggot. words do not change meaning because you think they should because of emotional reasoning.

god FUCKIN DAMN i hate this website.

>>15089316
10/10
kek

>>15088855
>Corals are animals
Wow, cool!

>>15103331
Dude, words have "alternative meanings" based on my feefees, just like "alternative facts." Get with the pogram.

>>15088725
What the fuck? Is this real???

>>15095656
obviously there are exceptions but i would imagine eating only food grown without the use of animal products would actually be impossible to do or even verify

>>15088699
Most vegans will never go into the nitty gritty and draw their own lines for what's unethical and what isn't.

>>15088914

>>15088699
Your logic is deeply flawed anon and I think you may have a learning disability.

>>15088855
Thank you anon, that was a really nice post.
Have a great day.

>>15088914

>>15088707
They're barely animals but overfishing is the big ethical issue with eating fish more regularly. It's *better* than most other meat based proteins but it's not all about " but animals have feewings too".

>>15104144
I find it incredible just how cheap fish is. Frozen albacore or yellowfin tuna steaks are cheaper than a nice cut of beef (also cheaper than decent oil packed tuna).

No way that can be sustainable, so I'm enjoying it while I can. I'm going to suffer the tragedy of the commons in the end anyway, so I'll eat my tuna melt in the mean time.

>>15103310
we do
t. vegan

>>15105126
No you don't

>>15088699
Fact: I loved animals more before vegans tried to guilt me about them.

I still like animals, but honestly my livestock are fucking retarded and high maintenance. If I wasn't killing them for food they would be a massive waste of time. Animal sanctuaries are a joke.

I get it, animals feel pain, but so do humans, and no one gives a flying fuck about them. To me, animals are just bio machines and they are totally fine to kill and eat as long as you don't upset their nervous system too much, especially when shutting them down. They socialize, but honestly they don't give a shit about each other. Even less than humans give a shit about one another, and that's saying a lot.

Fuck you vegans, you ruined animals for me. Please kill yourselves.

>>15105156
then why am i vegan

>>15088699
It’s basically semantics at that point. A lot of mollusks resemble plants in terms of their thought capacity and function, there should be no immorality to eating them

>>15105191
>anon tees up the most guaranteed to get mocking and angry responses post of all time besides that one post about being jewish on /pol/

lets see how this works out for him

>>15105191
Ego mostly. And to virtue signal.

>>15105185
>"i love animals bro"
>kills them
>sees them as biological machines without consciousness andsentience
>speaks about them with disdain
>keeps them cooped and penned up, unable to live beyond surviving to be butchered

if you share that same love with your family you are fucked up man

>>15092309
Not really. Most commercial fishermen are retarded, self-centered boomers who think that they should be able to get away with anything because they are the most important workers on the planet and that any population crashes in fish stocks is due to shadowy government cabals and fish farms.

>source: fisheries stock biologist who has worked at multiple government levels and as a contractor in the private sector

>>15105209
They live on pasture dipshit, not in cages like your animal torture porn you like to jack off to.
And all living things are a pain. Especially people like you. You want to screech at people for lacking empathy but will never actually look in to a mirror as ask yourself if you have any empathy while you refuse to produce your own food, instead relying on others to produce, ship, and process it for you.
I find living organisms fascinating, but I don't think killing them is a crime. I mean, do you hate plants?

>>15105263
are you actually trying to bust out the plants feel pain card or what guy? that was a pile of non sequiturs

>>15105281
not the guy you're replying to, but I'm curious as to what you would make of this post
>>15100755
where do you draw the line, and why? What is your basis for what you view as ethical consumption?

>>15105209
Vegans hate their families as much as they love sneaking a McDonald's burger on the way home to a tofurkey dinner

>>15105281
Listen, nobody gives a shit about you. Organisms have been killing one another since the beginning of time, and you are simply weak and disconnected from reality. You are pathetic and easy to control. You are like a human version of a poi dog. Dim witted, pot bellied, and eat no meat. Perfect livestock. You are weak.

Do yourself a favor and end your life. You are an inconvenience to any normal people who are unfortunate enough to have you in their life.

>>15105281
You think you are better because youmurder a million plants instead of one ostrich?

>>15105299
If it feels, thinks, and reacts negatively to pain, then I don't eat it or its products. The basis for ethical consumption is suffering. That's really it.
People like to go "muh plants bro", they don't have a CNS or consciousness. They aren't sentient. They respond to their environment mechanically. They don't suffer. A machine tearing ass through a field of soy and corn and wheat takes a lot less manpower and pain than raising livestock and butchering them, or harvesting their various discharges. That's really it, though. I just don't like the suffering in the industry. I made the decision to stop buying those things.
>>15105317
>you're disconnected from reality bro im an apex predator bro no one controls me im strong
>takes lessons on morality or reality from animals
you got duped by a burger king commercial into thinking you're not just a dude in a blanket behind a screen like everyone else here

pic related for fun

>>15088699
well scallops are classified under the kingdom animalia so if you're a vegetarian who eats animals its fine.

>>15105353
your pic is literally just a bad faith bait image. Our teeth aren't the same as a ruminant like a herbivore, at least if that's what your image is implying. You can't just sum up an animal's diet solely by their dental structure.

As for suffering, I agree that one should try to reduce the amount of suffering they create, but veganism isn't a perfect solution. So as a vegan, at least from your chosen diet, you're saying that if it doesn't have a CNS or consciousness, it's ok to eat? So, what, uncountable numbers of other invertebrates, mollusks, and other organisms are ok to eat? I just don't feel like it follows logically to say you can eat a plant, but not a mollusk. They react the same way you're describing; mechanically. I'm not even sure if you called yourself a vegan, honestly, but this is how the large majority of them (or at the very least, the vocal ones. I don't have any hard data on this), think.

It essentially comes down to more of a rejection of flesh/animal products than a logical reduction of suffering.

>>15105353
You're such a fucking retard.
I'm not a dude, and you can't judge what an animal eats by its teeth. Just look at pic related (a fruit bat, aka a frugivore). Look at our behaviors and digestive systems. We have one stomach and a vestigial cecum (also known as an appendix). Our primate ancestors that ate mostly foliage are hindgut fermenters. Which means if we were naturally meant to eat foliage we would also be required to regularly eat our own feces, much like the gorillas you love so much. We don't. We don't have sharp teeth because we don't need them. We have large complex brains and dexterous hands to create tools. We have shoulders meant for throwing spears. Humans literally can (and still do) endurance run their prey to exaustion. You are such a fucking retard with your kindergarden level of ignorance of human biology.

Go eat your impossible whopper and gay pride soylent you shortbus motherfucker. I got livestock to tend to.

You don't care about animals. So don't give me that horseshit. You don't even know how they work. Grow your own fucking food you god damn nimrod.

>>15105353
i just dont care lmao go argue morality someplace else you fucking faggot

>>15088703
Proof?
>The majority of species, however, live recumbent on sandy substrates, and when they sense the presence of a predator such as a starfish, they may attempt to escape by swimming swiftly but erratically through the water using jet propulsion created by repeatedly clapping their shells together. Scallops have a well-developed nervous system, and unlike most other bivalves all scallops have a ring of numerous simple eyes situated around the edge of their mantles.
Sounds sentient to me.

>>15105401
You're right, I always follow it up with this picture. For fun.

I haven't delved into the world of aquatic life, but disregarding the question of sustainability, if it has no CNS, no consciousness, no ability to suffer, then it's not on my radar. The only problem with eggs is that chickens are biologically fucked up, and the only way to get them is to keep them in pens. If it can not process sensory data in a manner in a manner that isn't mechanically, then it's not sentient. If it doesn't suffer, it's not sentient. Plants are not sentient. They do not suffer. As for mollusks, that kingdom, and the question at hand, no. Their kingdom is too diverse. Some of these bivalves have eyes that function and a CNS with pain receptors. Either way, it's such a niche question that it doesn't warrant a discussion. Vegans aren't looking for an excuse to snack on something 'animal-ey', and the general consensus I've seen is that they're off limits.

So yeah. No animal products. Be all, end all. We just eat plants and fungus.

>>15105451
> the only way to get them is to keep them in pens.

Tell that to the free range chickens I get my eggs from. Those motherfuckers don't even have a fence to keep them in. They could literally run away if they wanted to. But they don't, the incentive of shelter from predators and free grub is too good to pass up.
They also make damn good eggs. Not as good as my pasture raised ducks, but still the best eggs I've ever eaten, the massive fence isn't even to keep the ducks in, it's to keep predators out. The ducks will accidentally escape from time to time and will get upset and wait for me to let them back in.

You really don't know anything about livestock, do you? Other than shithole industry livestock or some gay ass farm sanctuary that spends billions on some worthless cull pig. Not everyone abuses livestock. Some people do, which is why I have my ducks. But there are plenty of folk who do actually care about their food.

>>15105439
https://www.wired.com/2013/12/secret-language-of-plants/
>plants can communicate using electronic signals, or release airborne signals, which other plants will also react to in response to predation
seems a lot like sentience by your definition, which is absurd. Eyes don't define sentience either, and to do so is just personifying those features because we have them, and can identify with them.

>>15105451
you might find this article interesting, but it'll likely also confirm your previously held biases
https://medium.com/@jd.feliz/the-case-for-vegans-eating-oysters-mussels-other-invertebrates-961747367305

essentially, I don't believe that a collection of nerve cells, ganglia, and pain receptors indicate sentience. They can indicate methods by which an organism reacts to stimulus around it, but they don't indicate any real acknowledgement of their environment other than those stimuli, or even that it knows that what it's experiencing is pain. and yes, I'm well aware vegans aren't looking to snack on animal tissue, but again, the logic doesn't hold for me. If you apply these rules consistently, at least in my opinion, you should be focusing entirely on harvesting without killing, things like fruits. But I'm not a vegan, nor will I be in the future, so my opinion on this in the end is ultimately moot.

>>15105496
cool ducks anon.

>>15105501
I, personally, would eat them. They don't have a 'brain' to store consciousness to react to it. But there's some doubt, and it's not a food choice that comes up often, really. Sentience to me implies not sensory organs, but something to process it and react & respond.

I don't take the jain approach because plant life isn't of any consequence. But I also don't step on flowers and burn down trees just cuz. Just, a potato planted is a potato harvested.

>>15105510
ty. the males are even more delicious than the eggs! :) Low stress life and death=delicious meat!

>>15105524
there's only doubt in that the scientific community is trying to be responsible. Until it's possible to quite literally be omniscient on what an organism is "thinking", we will never know for 100% certain. But from the data we have now, it's extraordinarily apparent to me that they aren't sentient, and that their lives are spent mechanically reacting to their environment, like a plant.

Why this is so difficult to sell to most vegans is strange to me, especially since it could be used to advocate for more efficient usage of our current fishing fleets and coastlines. but veganism is also a set of moral principles paved by good intentions, not a logic proof. So I won't judge, so long as they don't judge me for mine either.

>>15105501
>seems a lot like sentience by your definition
Indeed. Perhaps it is more wise to acknowledge that there is no rigorous definition for things like sentience, or consciousness. So it would perhaps be foolish to jump to conclusions on what is and isn’t okay to eat on the basis of some poorly defined property like sentience.

>>15105572
there are, like any community of vegans, a small but noisy group of individuals

in this case, they believe that cucumbers and sunlight and energy from crystals is sufficient for survival, or those who refuse to eat yeast (despite it being on everything), etc

if they're not sentient, and afaik they're actually very good for oceanic health, then i'd see no reason NOT to farm them

as for the judging bit, vegans don't usually judge (we were all omnis) as much as we do attack people's sense of normality/morality and try to get them to question themselves.

>>15105597
Vegans all have irreversible brain damage no one should ever listen to a retard

>>15105605
we just care and are doing our best, anon

>>15105578
what criteria would you choose then?
>>15105597
I've never personally been accosted by a vegan, and when I dated vegetarians they usually began to slowly lust after whatever I was eating in front of them, but there's that old meme of loud preachy vegans that will seemingly persist forever, regardless of truth.

>>15105618
Vegans see vegetarians as worse than omnis. The hate is actually funny from the shitposting perspective.

>>15105618
>what criteria would you choose then?
Doesn’t matter since it’s arbitrary. It’s just a preference at the end of the day. We can’t be 100% certain plants don’t suffer, or whatever.

>>15105633
kek. I doubt this but could also easily see this being true.
>>15105658
I don't necessarily think it's arbitrary, nor do I think that if we don't know something with 100% certainty it's impossible to act on it. There are certain goals that the large majority of even the U.S. would agree are laudable, so long as they're not too costly to attain in the long run. For example; gestation pens for breeding sows at pork farms, we could probably at the very least do without those.

>>15105680
> gestation pens for breeding sows at pork farms, we could probably at the very least do without those.

I can kind of agree with this one. The only issue is that large producers can't afford to lose any pigs, and sows, especially hyper domesticated sows, are not the best mothers. They will roll on or even kill and eat their own babies. Mother pigs do need their own little individual spaces, but they also need space to get up and get away from her little piglets. The space would not only remove the need for gestation pens but also remove the need to remove baby pig teeth. Look up farrowing gilts on pasture.

My whole thing is that there should be more farmers being able to make a living off less animals instead of just a handful of farms barely scraping by raising thousands if not millions of animals. I mean, for fucks sake, 100 years ago a poultry farm that slaughtered 400 birds a year was considered massive!
It also doesn't help that 100 years ago 20% of the united states was farming, as opposed to just 1 percent today (with the average age being 65)

Am I the only one who sees the real problem here?

I'm vegan but because I hate animals and think its gross and disgusting to eat them. They are filthy disease ridden faggot critters and Indont like them. If it was up to me id extinct them all, and turn this earth into a lifeless planet. Fuck animals and fuck humanity. Scum planet shithole

>>15106159
You know killing urself is basically the same as getting rid of all life.

>>15088914

>>15088914
U forgot Carlos