/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>17082495
does your ass need to be crammed?

>>17082498
Only by you, baby.

>>17082495
No.

>>17082495
yes

>>17082495
maybe

>>17082495
Adding oil inhibits gluten formation a bit, so it makes the dough softer and less chewy. Just depends if that's what you want or not.

>>17082495
Adding oil inhibits gluten formation a bit, so it makes the dough softer and less chewy. Just depends if that's what you want or not. It probably works better if you're making a thicker dough but it's just personal preference.

I've found it makes the crust too chewy.
After lots of experimenting I only use 'oo' flour, water, salt and yeast in my dough.

>>17082822
>>17082830
>>17082835
>>17082896
>>17082903
Yes
No
Maybe
Less chewy
Too chewy

>>17082495
if your using hard flour you need to use some oil
if your using AP flour its not essential

true DOC crust contains no oil

>>17082896
>less chewy
>>17082903
>more chewy

>>17082903
Maybe the oil makes the bottom of the crust brown more? Not sure because fat is usually added to doughs and betters to make it more tender.

>>17082495
Olive oil goes on the dough before the sauce, not into the dough.

>>17082903
Maybe the oil makes the bottom of the crust brown more which makes it chewier? Not sure because fat is usually added to doughs and batters to make it more tender.

I'm a professional pizziolo and jesus fuck me none of you retards have ANY idea what you are talking about. I really should never return to this hellhole, but alas

The main reason you add fat to your dough is to impart a richness to the dough. You cant really ask if it belongs in pizza dough as that is EXTREMELY subjective in many ways. Not just the style of pizza you are making, but also how you are cooking it, the temperature and how long you want to cook it as that has a big impact as well. In general, almost all pizza doughs have a small amount of fat besides Neapolitan.

The use of fat manly comes down to tradition and the style of pizza you are making. Fat is used mostly in ranges from 1-5%, It does impart a very small boost in browning, all though its much less than any sugars in the dough, created from fermentation or added sugars in any form. Yes it retards gluten development SLIGHTLY, it adds to the hydration of the dough in terms of how the dough feels.

Things like hydration, bulk fermentation, dough stretching ability, and quality of ingredients play a much bigger role in the pizza

>>17082495
does nothing

>>17083536
>I'm a professional pizziolo
Why?

Proper pizza dough only needs flour, baking powder, garlic/onion powder, some form of liquid (i like to use ipa) and salt. That's it, stop trying to make a science out of it.

>>17083599
Kys

>>17083546
im passionate about pizza making

>>17083664
I am a pizzaiolo 14th generation.

>>17082903
>I only use 'oo' flour
I have heard that is only good if you have a 800f + oven

>>17083773
>I am a pizzaiolo 14th generation.
Impressive if true.

>>17082903
>I only use 'oo' flour
Is that all-purpose flour?

>>17083536
You didn't answer a single fuckin question.

>>17082495
margarine
shout out if ya feel me!

>>17082495
Yes for Sicilian
No for Neapolitan
Corn oil for Chicago

>>17085146
no its pasta flour, extra fine ground but high in protein enough to make good bread

>>17086881
there is no way that is going to make good pizza in a 500f oven

>>17082495
Yes. Tastes good, and improves browning.

>>17082495
It needs to be ON pizza dough, not IN pizza dough

>>17082495
Autolyse flour and water for 20 mins, then add oil and the rest of the ingredients. Knead for 10 mins.

A few years ago I became the sole sauce making person at a small family pizzeria. I posted the secret recipe on /ck/ as a cookalong and every response was flinging shit at me, mostly reddit tier stuff like "oh that's not NEARLY enough GARLIC you gotta put SO MUCH MORE GARLIC". Years later I saw the same method posted on the internet by an old school italian pizzaiolo. Moral is disregard /ck/'s opinion

the other secret ingredient was lard in the pizza dough

>>17088993
>3 grams of yeast
Fresh, instant, active dry?

>>17089092
Any dry yeast will do.

I use honey in my dough

>>17082495
if you're fat, yes

Neapolitan doesnt use it in the dough. Pretty much all American styles do. It softens it a bit by lubricating the gluten strands, helps browning and traps flavors.
>>17088993
Salt, then oil last
>>17085131
Because it is so fine it can easily soak up water. You need more heat to take advantage of why you want it to do that, which is make lots of steam very fast.

>>17089088
Secret recipe:
Stanislaus 7/11, Sicilian oregano, salt
>>17089088
>lard
A few places even use a few eggs. Anything other than flour, water, yeast, salt, oil is rare, and none of the top places do anything else.

>>17082495
only if it's 'eep 'ish 'go 'za
prevents it from sticking to the pan
t. ex pizza place wagie that rolled the dough

>>17083536
Quick question to a profession (Allegedly) pizza maker:

All the recipes I've read about making pizza seem to indicate that your pizza should have a fairly high water to flour ratio so that it's fairly sticky.
But I've never been able to properly roll out my dough without putting in a higher flour content to make the dough handleable without it sticking (As even putting flour on the Rolling pin doesn't work, as once I flatten it out the flour gets pulled off the rolling pin as I squeeze out more wet dough from inside the ball).

Any tips?

>>17089455
If you have high gluten pizza flour, 63% hydration is the magic number. If you are using bread flour, 60%-61% is probably about right. 63% is the absorption ability of a 14%+ protein flour (ie., high gluten) where the dough wont be sticky because theres no more water than the flour can absorb. Of course you can go higher, and you will get a higher rise in the oven, but the dough will get wetter and harder to handle.

>>17089455
Also dont roll out pizza dough. That's not how its done.

>>17089525
If you're saying to throw it over my head while spinning, I lack the dexterity for that kind of stuff.

>>17089092
Crotch

>>17089540
Nah. Just go to YouTube and watch a 'how to open a dough ball' video. Also get a digital scale and use a recipe that has baker's percentages. Bakers use weight in grams and ounces, never volumetric. That's how you can scale recipes to any size and get the hydration just right. Rolling out dough pushes all the air out. That's not what you want.

>>17082495
If you ask adam ragusea it does
I tried his pizza recipe and it turned out pretty good so I say yes too

>>17082495
its not necessary at all

>>17083536
bro no pizza other than neapolitan is worth discussing, so why are you raging about your unnecessary information?

>>17089455
that ragusa dude has a video about sticky dough and some tricks - but uts really unnecesssary - you need a wetter dough but lol not a sticky one

use a recipe that starts with a bowl of water, sprinkle some flour to get the water thick, then add salt and yeast and slowly add flour till its just enough

Neapolitan pizza dough really is the best pizza dough. Its just hard to make because you have to make the dough one day ahead of time and form the pizza balls then wait till the next day to use them.

But...you can make something called a Poolish which is a pre fermentation of the dough the day before and then finish it off the day you make the pizza. This is better because you wont have a sheet pan of dough with dough balls in it sitting in your refrigerator for a day taking up all the space. Instead you can make all the poolish in a small bowl and add that to the rest of the water and flour to mix up the dough. Then the dough balls only take 2 hours to rest instead of waiting 24 hours after you make the dough balls.

>>17090164
do you really get a nice thick airy crust?
i never poolish

>>17090181
Yes the crust is airy and crunchy at the same time. I learned this method from an Italian youtuber who is also a pro at making Neapolitan pizza.

https://www.youtube.com/c/vitoiacopelli/videos

>>17090201
that pic makes my cock diamonds

>>17090201
thank you

Here is my recipe for making 2 pizza at home Neapolitan style


For two pizza's -- a 70% recipe:


300 grams total Flour
210 grams total Water -70% of flour total

Poolish:

100 gr. Water
100 gr. Flour
2.5 gr. dry yeast 1 Teaspoon
2.5 gr. Honey 1 Teaspoon

Dough mix:

Poolish (add all)
Water 110 gr.
Flour 200 gr.
Salt 10 gr.


Make Poolish the night before,

Mix the Poolish in the stand mixer with the flour, water, salt. --- Rest it for 15 mins after
Remove dough ball and form it into a smooth ball with the slap and fold method. (oil hands) --- Rest again for 30 mins These steps form the gluten.
Split the dough into dough balls and form them into balls. Put them on a pan with a bit of flour so they dont stick on the bottom and put oil on top with plastic wrap so it dont stick.
Rest the balls for at least 2 hours

Form the pizza:
Use spatula to remove dough and flip it into a bunch of flour and get both sides full of flour.
Put them on a floured board to spread them out by hand. Starting at the center and working out to the edge, leaving some air at the edge. Flip and do both sides. Pull and stretch as needed.

>>17090222
god fucking dammit now i have to convert to cups

>>17090235

No, you have to use a scale to be accurate. Using volume measure when baking is bad practice. Each time it will be slightly different.

>>17090250
yes and atoms are mostly empty space but i aint falling thru the floor bro

This pizza calculator is really useful to figure out how much hydration is in the dough also. I made my recipe for 70% hydration but you can adjust that with the calculator.

I made my two dough balls 260 grams each which is how much pizza I make for dinner for us.

https://www.stadlermade.com/pizza-dough-calculator/

>>17090250
im just kidding i appreciate and will try the recipe
thank you!!!!!!!!!!

Ok here is a vid that shows making the Poolish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAFKQoSMbxI

Also here he is cooking in a home kitchen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-jPoROGHGE

>>17083536
t. watched a few italia squisita videos

>>17090300
I maka da poolishe.

>>17082495
It depends on how do you like your pizza dough.
You have to understand what is the purpose of oil in a dough. Ever made a cake where you add a crick of butter into the dough?
Oil breaks the gluten chains in the dough, so with more oil those longs strands won't form and the dough after baking will have more of a spongy texture. With no oil you are left with a solid interwoven net of these gluten strands, where you can pinch and rip apart half of the baked dough, something you can't really do with an oily dough.

So it's just a preference.

>>17090222
What kind of flour?

>>17083773
I'm pretty sure pizza has been a thing for that long. 14 generations is 350 years

>>17089088
no such thing as to much garlic

>>17090975

Bread flour is good, all purpose will work also but the best kind is double zero flour. Cause bread flour is high proteins to form the gluten and the double 00 flour is the strongest.

>>17090937
Voila!

>>17089540
Here anon.

>>17082495
Yes

>>17091523
retard

>>17092293
>00 flour is the strongest
It's not. That's sort of a myth. It is about the same strength as bread flour, something like 12% protein. Cake/gravy flour: 8% AP flour: 10% Bread flour: 12% High Gluten Pizza/Bagel flour: 13-14%(highest is 14.5%). 00 is like bread flour milled super fine like a gravy flour so it can soak up water easily, so it's easier to make high hydration dough, so that it gives off a lot of steam very fast and makes the dough puffy when you put it in a super hot oven. That's why bread flour is arguably better for home ovens. Typical gas commercial pizza ovens top out at the same temps as a home oven, and they typically use high gluten flour milled normally. General Mills "All Trumps" flour (14.5%) is probably the most popular. New Haven places use coal ovens and a slightly weaker flour that's about 13%. Wood fired Neo-Neapolitan American places sometimes mix high gluten and 00. DiFara's does this with a gas oven, but his gas oven is overclocked to about 650F.

>>17092497
Ok good info. When I make pizza in my home oven I usually use bread flour because its easy to find in stores. My gas oven goes up to 550 degree f. Bit slow to cook that low but it works out. I have two pizza stones in my oven I can preheat and then swap between stones half way through the cook.

>>17089520
>hydration ratios
I wasn't seeking validation, but my goto home recipe uses bread flour @ 61%. Cool.

>>17089540
>>17092421
>tossing dough
That's a pretty good clip.
One thing I'd recommend for beginners is some kind of backlighting (window, bare lightbulb, etc). The dough is translucent, and you can much more easily tell where there's a naughty air bubble, thick/thin spot, etc.

>>17092497
>gas oven is overclocked to about 650F
The place I first learned to make pizza had two old Marsal ovens. They went to 650 (no mods), and that's how we used them. In the morning, first person in just cranks the knob all the way up.

>>17092606
>>hydration ratios
>I wasn't seeking validation, but my goto home recipe uses bread flour @ 61%. Cool.

This video shows examples of what you get at 60% 70% or 80% Hydration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTas4Fn9xk4

>>17092618
wow, these pizzas look horrible.

>>17092618
Damn I got distracted. Deleted my post, so I could include a pic of the oven & setup from the shop I mentioned. I know there's a good one on their Instagram, but nowadays it's full of wild political shit instead of pizza pictures. No thanks.

Here's the rest of that prior comment:
>>17089540
>>17092421
>tossing dough
That's a pretty good clip.
One thing I'd recommend for beginners is some kind of backlighting (window, bare lightbulb, etc). The dough is translucent, and you can much more easily tell where there's a naughty air bubble, thick/thin spot, etc.

>>17092497
>gas oven is overclocked to about 650F
The place I first learned to make pizza had two old Marsal ovens. They went to 650 (no mods), and that's how we used them. In the morning, first person in just cranks the knob all the way up.

>>17092687

Its just a dough test. He said when making them he was not adding the correct amount of toppings cause it was just a test of the dough hydration.

I got myself some black forest ham and fresh mozzarella to make a pizza like this with green sauce.

https://youtu.be/Tz4JLRQ2EPE

>>17082495
I like a nice brushed layer on top of the dough before I put the sauce down

>>17091329
No, it's 280.