/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>18783546
Because the shelf stable stuff is good enough

>>18783546
>real stuff: tastes like salt and chicken
>shelf stable: tastes like salt and chicken
gee I wonder why

>>18783555
>>18783572
Cooklets

>>18783546
if you don't want to buy the canned stuff, the only other option is to buy solid stuff that you have to mix with water.

>>18783546
Gee spend any from 2-6 hours making a stock or just buy a pack of gelatin along with your stock.

Surely this is a question that will stand for all of time

>>18783578
a poor chef blames his ingredients

>>18783572
Real stuff should not taste like salt. It should not even have salt. Salt goes in the soup not the broth.

>>18783583
Again, cooklet.

The "holistic" grocery store at my corner sells their own shop-made chicken stock (not beef, tho; go figure). Not only is theirs costly, but I don't much care for the taste and as it's very Eurocentric in its flavour profile, it's not terribly useful for things outside of Yurp cuisine and some of its daughter cuisines.
My homemade stock is plain so that I can use it just as easily for wonton soup as I can for chicken gravy for a nice roast.

>>18783583
What does a rich chef blame?

>>18783601
products without salt have to be pressure canned which is an expensive process when done industrially. the alternative is shit tons of preservatives and heavy processing (which you see already with current no salt broth and stock)

>>18783546
It is. Look in the refrigerated section. It's really expensive also. The funny thing about shelf stable chicken broths is a lot will add some form of umami/savory booster like mushrooms, or yeast extract. Depending on use case they can be better than homemade if yours doesn't have the higher glutamate levels.

Secret technique: buy powdered beef gelatine and add it to the best shelf stable stuff.

>>18783546
Here's the brand I'm talking about. It's quite good.

>>18784109
>they add msg so it's better than yours
My lord and shepherd Jesus above, I hate the antichrist.

>>18784113
That's not really stock. You need to use meat not just bones.

>>18784120
Ypu can add the other stuff. They took care of the time consuming part.

>>18784119
You don't understand what I'm saying. You need to take a deep breathe and relax.

>>18784129
Wasn't the original question why isn't real stock sold in stores? Well if I have to make a 2nd stock from the 'stock' in stores just so it isn't thin garbage then real stock still isn't sold in stores.
The real reason is no one would pay the price it costs to make.

>>18784075
>What does a rich chef blame?
Niggas who don't buy Knorr Homestyle Stock®, I would suppose.

>>18784101
That's the whole point of the thread. It's hard to make the legit stuff shelf stable, but theoretically it could easily be sold frozen.

>>18784137
You only claim that it's "not really" stock. It has vegetable, it has chicken with gelatine extracted, it is a thickened liquid.
What more do you need? Toss a little pepper, garlic, parsley, lemon in if you need it. No big deal, dude.

Vegetable stock is quick to make because you aren't extracted gelatine.

Chicken stock is slow only because you need the time to dissolve the gelatine.

>>18784119
Your lord is no more. Die a dog's death.

>>18784156
it would be prohibitively expensive because at that point it has to be shipped in freezer trucks which would double its cost

>>18784169
It's thin and flavourless. They don't extract enough gelatin so you have to add some or reduce it by half, so it's really twice the cost.
It has no flavour because they use no meat only bones to make it.

>>18784191
Lol, bro. Op wasn't asking if good stock was sold in stores, only if real, gelatinous, stock was sold in stores. Guess what? It is!

Get this also. There's almost no salt added to it! 330mg of sodium in 2 cups.

>>18784138
Have you noticed how MPW and Alan Davies have slowly been morphing into the same being over the years? MPW just looks like a grouchy Alan Davies in need of a nap these days.

>>18783546
Probably because something you want to use as a liquid, which comes in the form of aspic though, is pretty impractical to most people or wouldn't feel "natural" to them.

>>18784209
Campbell's soup used to contain gelatin. Remember how it would come out of the can shaped like a can? Now it's just salt water with like 200mg of chicken fat that floats to the top.

>>18784075
his subordinates

>>18784120
There will always be some meat attached to the bones. You don't need separate meat to make stock. Stock is literally made with bones as the key ingredient.

>>18785411
You need meat for flavour. Bones mostly just add gelatine or fat. You could also use pork rinds for that part.
Meat to bones ratio should be 1:1.

>>18785446
dumbest post of the day

>>18785458
Say the guy defending his flavourless hobo bone water.

>>18785477
Stock is not a standalone dish, you can build flavorful stuff from it but you should not waste perfectly edible meat to make one, at least not outside of a restaurant

>chicken stock tedious to make
Its the easiest thing in the world to make wat
Like as easy as kraft dinnner

>>18785477
>How to say you barely know anything about cooking without saying it.
Stock is an ingredient, not a finished dish. Stock in itself isn't very flavourful, but it's a base that you use to archive a finished product. Often the word broth our bouillon is used for a stock that is "flavoured up".

>>18785514
He said tedious, not difficult you ESL.

>>18783546
>>18783578
Anyone who actually cooks knows full well how dead easy stock is to make. Only a lazy idiot would buy it, so the only stuff they bother selling is preserved for lazy idiots who don't care.

>>18785638
It's not really tedious though. You put in on, forget about it for a few hours while you do other things and then it's done. Strain and use / freeze.

>>18783546
>tin of chicken soup
>ice-cube tray

>>18785527
He is a weak minded fool, a brothlet, and a stocklet. Who suggests pork rinds in chicken broth before suggesting chicken necks?

Top tier but most expensive broth is made with only chicken wings. Generally not worth it. On an aside I made chicken stock using a few chicken heads along with frozen carcasses and found it added an incredible depth of flavor.

Perfectly fine and relatively affordable is made with a mix of necks, back, and feet.

>>18785638
Whats tedious about it? Its as tedious as making kraft dinner

>>18785678
If you just want thick flavourless water pork rind is the cheapest source of gelatine. It's even used in haute cuisine fond recipes.

>>18785682
Not him, but the only things that are annoying about making stock is straining it at the end and removing the scum throughout the simmering process. Most people don't usually work with such large volumes of liquids.

>>18785712
Okay, but that isn't kosher, so it is innately an inferior and worthless technique.

>>18785678
The best stock is made from a chicken, turkey or whatever that has been roasted whole. After most of the meat is gone simmer it for 4 - 6 hours with added veggies if you like.

>>18785813
Prove it. Generally speaking roasted carcasses don't make a very gelatinous stock.

Chicken wings are the perfect balance in all regards to stock making.

>>18783546
it is here in central yurop, where are you from?

>>18785841
to clarify it's not frozen though, it's reduced and sold like a blob of gelatin in the glass

>>18785715
Just use a pressure cooker bro

>>18785712
>If you just want thick flavourless water pork rind is the cheapest source of gelatine. It's even used in haute cuisine fond recipes.
Nothing wrong with using pork rind, but that's not what we use for stock.
>>18785813
>The best stock is made from a chicken, turkey or whatever that has been roasted whole.
It's good but what's best is really dependent on what you're going to use it for.
>>18785828
>Generally speaking roasted carcasses don't make a very gelatinous stock.
But not a very un-gelatinous stock either. It's good and versatile and if you like to have roast chicken once or twice pr. month, it's easily going to be the main component of your chicken stock. I agree chicken wings are great for stock though, I used it more before, might want to buy me 2 kgs next time I've got half a dozen of roast chicken carcasses to add to it.

>>18785856
Got a 5 gallon pressure cooker that automatically strains liquid, bro? Pressure cookers make a less refined tasting and always cloudy stock as well.

>>18785868
If you have the carcasses already I would just add a couple lbs of chicken feet. A lot cheaper than wings.

>>18785877
I find I get it gelatinous enough from just the carcasses, I think chicken wings would improve it more. What do you have to pay for chicken wings? I can get them frozen for about 6-7 usd. pr. kg.

>>18785872
You have to strain liquid when you make kraft dinner bro

>>18785872
>always cloudy
Lmao you dont know shit

>>18783546
dissolve gelatin in store bought stock
wa la

>>18785894
The costco near me sells them for 3.50/lb so roughly equal. They sell drumsticks for 1.16/lb, and organic drumsticks for 2.35/lb. Crazy cheap. May need to put in an order for those drumsticks.

Chicken feet at walmart are 1/lb, so they are still more economical if you just need to up the gelatine.

>>18785916
I know the smell of ye mum's shit, idiot.

>>18785934
Figures a scat fetishist think making stock is some difficult achievment

>>18785942
SHE MADE ME DO IT. I WOULD DO ANYTHING FOR THAT SWEET WOMAN. ANYTHING!

Now prove to me you can make clear broth in a pressure cooker.

i dont want gelatin in my goddamn food

im not making gummy bears

People who make their own chicken stock are retarded, borderline insane

>use up tons of vegetables, chicken
>take hours and hours
>dirty many large dishes
>have the exact same product at 20x the cost

Foodfags are the worst ngl

>>18785953
This lard ass makin up fairy tales in his own tiny brain! How cute!

>>18785953
but it tastes a million times better

>>18785957
Taste does not matter to the fat, lazy, and absurdly short man. No effort is worth more than that which can be gained and consumed through pure convenience.

A soulless husk of a failed man living life in a padded cell he calls convenience. Nothing to live for but eliminating all struggle and discomfort from his meaningless life. How I pity the lost soul that he is.

>>18785970
>No effort is worth more than that which can be gained and consumed through pure convenience.

But it IS worth the effort

you can keep that gelatine store shelf salt slop for yourself

>>18785946
All i have right now is low effort remoulliage and actually cloudy goose stock because i fucked it up

>run out of bone broth
>get a small carton for a recipe I was in the mood for
>dish now completely lacks depth
what do they do to make the broth taste so boring?

>people who are lazy
>people who choose to complain and nitpick
make your own fucking stock then, chuds

buy a slow cooker and just chuck that chicken carcass in before you go to work for it to simmer like 10 hours

Chicken stock is the most accessible thing to make.
>buy a cheap rotisserie chicken for a quick dinner
>dump carcass in a stock pot with onion, carrot, and celery that you can throw in whole not even chopped
>put it on low
>5 minutes to skim the scum
>strain
>done

>>18783578
That's rich coming from the idiot who claims making stock is "tedious"

>>18785953
>Collect bones every time you have roast chicken
>Simmer for some hours and discard
Wow, such effort, such cost!

Retard.

>>18783546
>it's kind of tedious to make at home.

Retard detected. it takes about 10 minutes of active prep followed by an hour in the pressure cooker. you can literally make stock with shit tons of gelatin in a fucking instant pot. kys.

>>18785953
as a connoisseur of bait i recognize this as bait

>>18785411
You need meat attached to the bone yes, but full cuts not just scraps left over. Otherwise you have no flavour.

>>18786258
You have no idea about what you're talking about.

>>18786279
You can't just use bones or scraps for stock, or you may as well just buy it. It'll be garbage. Why bother? That method is an economization. I've attached a recipe you can use to make a sauce with your so-called 'stock'.

>>18786324
I use scrap and bone all the time for stock and its much better than store bought and that retarded recipe you posted

>>18786324
>>18785411
>>18785527
Retard

>>18786324
>one of those people who thinks making broth costs $20
broth can be made from trash and still taste fine, it should cost $0 because of the use of left over bones and veggie trimmings that have been saved up
crawl out of your own ass

Chicken stock can be substituted for water and that should tell you how truly worthless it is as a cooking ingredient.

>>18786485
so i can make lemonade with chicken broth? i never knew that

>>18785970
>Taste does not matter to the fat, lazy, and absurdly short man.

Not everyone is as short, fat and lazy as you. To normal people the minimal effort to make good stock is negligible compared to the jump in quality.

>>18786485
You can substitute many things in many recipes if you don't care about it tasting good.

>>18786564
Hey, bud. First off imitation is highest form of flattery, so thanks.

Second you should consider the words you speak. Just because you utter them does not make them reality or even make any sort of coherent sense. You can try again if you'd like.

>>18786625
Home made stock tastes far, far better than what you will find on store shelves. It's both cheap and easy to make. To someone who isn't fat and lazy it's obvious that making your own stock is best.

>>18786632
I was in agreement with that from the very beginning.

Reread it. FROM THE TOP, AND DO IT RIGHT THIS TIME.

>>18786640
Meh, I don't care to read that far back. I'm not really invested in this discussion and only skimmed it, just think it's funny there are people too stupid to make stock

>>18785953
based ameribait

>>18786646
Ahhhh, so the truth comes out. It was projection. You are the short, fat, and lazy one.

>>18784075
immigration

>>18786564
I'm really sorry but you're wrong. Most people don't care about quality, moral goodness, longevity, sustainability or good taste at all. All they care about is how they appear on the beach, in the club, on holiday and on Instagram.

The ones who are most adamant about values are often the most shallow and treacherous ones. Don't waste 25 years of your life trying to change people like I did.

>>18783546
Because people don't care about honest, healthy, tasty food. It really is that simple, incredible and true.

>>18785715
you are either lazy or a female who cant lift the pot up to pour over strainer.

>>18786160
stop talking like a girl

>>18786672
Lol now you're trying too hard

>>18786681
Maybe you just know the wrong people? Everyone in my family makes stock from bones, most I know as well.

>>18783546
Bought a pack of Beef and Chicken broth and the third is tomato chicken. Wtf do I use it for?

>>18783546
the gelatin is extracted from the stock to be sold as its own product. if they kept it in they'd be losing money.

>>18787040
>b-but we can make more money if we take important components out of the product and sell them again

why can't I buy real dehydrated chicken stock? all of the powders they sell are 90% salt and dextrose and only like 2% actual chicken. I bought a bottle of that knorr shit that mpw shills and it was pretty good, but I can't find it any more now. it was a lot more useful than the pots because you could use as much as you needed instead of being pre portioned.

>>18785446
This is correct
meat gives flavour, gelatin gives mouthfeel. One is not good without the other. I think the best part to make stock with is chicken wings or whole chicken with breasts removed. It's a good ratio of meat/bone.

>>18785446
>>18788835
samefag is the same, fag!

the bits of meat left on the chicken carcass or other bones is plenty. kill yourself.

>>18788254
How did you think they made jell-o? Magic?

>>18788868
No it isn't. Just try it and you'll see.

>>18788254
We will now fund your videogayme.

>>18788884
When powdered beef gelatine is the ultimate dlc.

>>18788868
Get some standards.

>>18786732
because they aren't delusional, and know that in home cooking budget is as important as taste so you shouldn't waste good meat on a stock. No shit if you add a pound of wagyu it's going to taste better than only beef neckbone, but that's not the point of a homemade stock

>>18788835
There's plenty of flavour from just the bones.
>>18788873
Stock is a base ingredient that is made from bones. Stock isn't something you use as single ingredient. You add things to stock, for example meat or meat juices that will bring more flavour, but it remains that stock is made from bones.

>>18790138
You don't use prime cuts for fonds but shanks.

>>18790240
That is simply not true, any recipe you've seen that uses only bones is an economization. Just because it's better than store bought and you don't want to spend money making it even better doesn't mean it's the pinnacle of cuisine. Even Escoffier's recipes are economizations compared to the past. And you are trying to take that economization to its extreme. It's fine if you want to use only bones, but it will be improved if you add meat as well, that is just fact. I'm attaching a quote from Peterson's Sauce book to back up my claims. Why should I trust you over him and my own experience?

>>18786160
What if I'm the type who eats all of the meat off the bone, including cartilidge then cracks the bone and eat the marrow. Haven't made a stock yet but I tend to always eat every part of the chicken

>>18790429
Escoffier's recipes are probably still the meat heaviest ones used to this day. Here are his 3 most used fonds for those defending their thin bone water:

Brown fond. Proportions for 10 l:
6 kg meaty beef shank, 6 kg meaty veal shanks or parures, 1 blanched ham bone, 650 g blanched pork rind, 650 g carrots, 650 g onions, 100 g parsley stems, 10 g thyme, 5 g bay leaves, 7-10 g garlic, 14 l water

White fond:
10 kg veal shanks and parures, 4 poultry carcassas, 800 g carrots, 400 g onions, 300 g leek, 100 g celery, 100 g parsley stems, 1 twig of thyme, 1 bay leaf, 4 cloves, 12 l water, 60 g salt (can be turned into a poultry fond if more carcassas and 3 soup chickens are thrown in)

Brown veal fond:
6 kg deboned veal shank and/or shoulder, 5 kg chopped veal bones, 600 g carrots, 400 g onions, 100 g parsley stems, 2 bay leaves, 2 twigs of thyme, 12 l white fond or as a cheap alternative 12 l water and 3 g salt/l

>>18783546
>>18783578
>throw a bunch of shit in a pot and boil it
>tedious
and you dare call anybody a cooklet lol