/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Go to the store

Buy a knife that cuts

And you're done

>>5262336
cheap knife
HF belt sander
DIY leather belt for sander
Instant sharpness

>>5262336
What is with /ck/ and constantly having knife/troll threads?

>>5262368
people use a bread knife for cutting

>>5262357
Never recommend HF for anything. That place needs to die.

>>5262377
nice things are a scam. you don't need nice things.

>>5262368
I wasn't aware this was frowned upon here. I lurked for a week and didn't see any knife threads so I assumed it was ok.

you don't need a bread knife. just sharpen your chef knife.

KCMA (PBUH) only used a gyuto for bread and so should you.

>>5262386
>>5262357
>you don't need a bread knife. just sharpen your chef knife.
So I take it I'm not going to get any real advice here?

>>5262396

that is real advice. if your chef knife isn't sharp enough to cut bread, it's too dull.

>>5262405
I'll take that as a no.

Since I'm not going to get real advice could you at least tell me why knife threads aren't welcome here?

>>5262410

I'm completely serious. that other guy complaining about troll threads is someone else.

also there is a sharpening thread in the catalog, you might try checking that out. you know about fibrox so you've basically already got the basic info. I mean I could tell you my favorites but everyone has their own.

>>5262412
I'm already lurking the sharpening thread and taking notes.

I don't know about fibrox, I picked an image off google. Is that a worthwhile knife?

I'm still not going to use a non-serrated knife to cut bread. I know that much.

>>5262418

it's considered one of the default "moving out wut do" knives around here. they've jacked up the prices almost to the level of "nice" knives but they're not bad.

don't ever use a belt sander, that other guy is an idiot. if you want to motorize get a tormek, otherwise hand power is the way it's done.

>>5262377
Place sells good things? Uses a simple electric motor

>>5262420
Do you know how sanders work? You can adjust speeds. It's the same as moving the blade on a stone

>>5262426

I put water on my stones. it tends to keep the temperature down.

Mezzaluna.jpg

>>5262428
Yeah, same thing on a belt sander? Magic.

>>5262426
Good luck with that. It would take a fraction of a second to take the temper out of something as thin as a knife blade with a belt sander unless you've got enough water flowing over it to electrocute yourself.

>>5262493
But the speeds can be slowed down to not affect the temper as well. Not only that but the various grit levels.

>>5262502
If you slowed it down enough to make it practical you wouldn't need the belt sander.

> I figure I need a chef's knife, a paring knife, a boning knife, and a bread knife.
I would start with a chef's knife and a paring knife. Put the big money into the chef's knife, and get an el-cheapo Victorinox paring knife. In fact, get several of those $5 paring knives.

I would only get a bread knife and a boning knife if you need them.

>Is there a guide or a copy pasta for me to follow?
I made this one a while back.

>>5262507
But it's faster than any form of handing sharpening with a whetstone

I'm something of a blacksmith and I just make my own knives. I forge the shape, even our the blade with a sander and do the finishing work with a file and whet stone.

>>5262548
But you burn through knives quicker than geriatrics burn through toilet paper.

Steel should last centuries or at least decades, not years or months.

>>5262537
is there a part two?

>>5262559
How is it quicker when you have control? Are you trolling me? That's like having the knife on a whetstone for 20 hours.

>>5262580
This board needs a violent purging.

Did you click the wrong post? Are you completely retarded?

>>5262592

Some day a real rain will come and wash all the scum away.

>>5262580
>How is it quicker when you have control

A belt sander is faster because the belt speed is much much faster than you would use moving it across a stone by hand. Also the average belt sander belt is much coarser than a typical whetstone.

>>5262575

see

>>5261406

>>5262493
I have a 2x72 belt sander, and it's definitely possible to sharpen knives on it without ruining the temper, or taking too much metal. I do it all the time for larger blades and axes.

>>5262537
>all that weeb

>>5262537
>I would only get a bread knife and a boning knife if you need them.

With all due respect, I would definitely get a bread knife. The Victorinox pictured. It's not just for bread, and when all your knives are too dull to cut a tomato, this one will still be sharp.
And when you can finally afford to upgrade your knives, this will be the last one that needs it. I've been using them for 17 years and if I could have only one knife, it would be this one. IN FACT, when I go to a kitchen and they don't have one of these (work or friend) I either buy them one or leave mine there. I cannot give a higher recommendation.

You guys have been talking about sharpening knives, so I have a n00b question. In the past, I've sharpened my knives with the underside of ceramic bowls. Is that bad? The knife does feel slightly sharper.

>>5262336
>I figure I need a chef's knife
Yes. This is hands down the knife to get.

What to get though, that's a tough one. I use a cleaver most of the time because I like the heft and the big flat blade for moving stuff from the board to the pan. But lots of people can't get used to that shape. If you don't have a favourite profile now it's probably best to get a conventional European-style chef's knife, they're probably the most versatile and easier to use.

I would recommend stainless over carbon steel but your taste decides. You don't have to spend over $30 to get a decent full-size knife for home use, but you can easily spend ten times that on a knife from a high-tier brand.

You're also going to need a steel to keep your edge honed. Eventually you may want something to sharpen it as well, but that's a thread in itself.

>a paring knife
Maybe not. I cook all the time and I only 'need' a paring knife about twice or three times a year. Even then frankly it's for convenience, not because the job can't be done with a chef's knife..

>a boning knife
Planning on doing much boning? I've never used a boning knife in 30 years of cooking for myself and my partner.

>and a bread knife.
Yes.

No need to spend high on this, even cheap brands tend to be good enough they'll last for years because serrated knifes are so good at staying sharp.

>>5262833
>Is that bad

There's nothing wrong with using the bottom of a bowl, assuming you know what you're doing.

The problem with sharpening lies not in the tool, but in the user. Except pull-through sharpeners. Those are horrible.

>>5265158

I'm not OP but I think his list is pretty reasonable.
chefs knife is clearly #1

I agree about the paring knife. I don't even own one and I take my cooking pretty seriously.

Boning knife? I bought one because I hunt, but since then I've found a bunch of other uses for it. It easily takes the place of a filet knife for filleting fish, and it is handy as a general purpose slicing knife. I prefer it to my chef's knife for butterflying chops or chicken breasts. Is it strictly necessary? Probably not for the average home cook. But its use is not as rare as some people might think.

Agreed on the bread knife.

>>5262833
The issues I could see with ceramic bowls is (particularly if using one bowl over and over) the lodging up of materials, smoothing out of the surface that you're using to sharpen your edge with, and small, irregular surface.
That doesn't man it wouldn't still work, just that it'd have a smoother grit as it wears down and loads up, so your sharpening will be less consistent, and the irregularities would make maintaining a fine edge problematic, at the least.
If using a very hard steel blade, it could easily cause extra chipping, and if using a soft steel blade, it could easily cause rolling of the edge.
All these things can happen with sharpening stones, as well, but they're much easier to prevent from happening with decent sharpening stones and a lapper.

I need to bring knives when I visit my mom because her's have not been sharpened in 20 years even though they're cutco shit so it's gratis. She doesn't want to be without the completely useless knives for any time. They can crush a melon without breaking the skin.

>>5265334
Whenever you see a brand that says "free sharpening for life", run screaming for the hills because it means their primary customer base is retards, and the knives will not be good.

I mean what are you supposed to do? Not cook while you wait for the return trip? What are people thinking?

Not trolling, why are pull through sharpeners bad?

I have one currently and it's my only way of sharpening my henckels.

I want to get a set of stones but haven't gotten around to it.

>>5265341
It shaves off way too much steel and is aligned at a shitty angle.

>>5265341
if you have henkels it's fine. people who worry about angles and grits are using fancy knives with modern high hardness steel.

>>5265349

I didn't buy the shitty chinese ones.

>>5265346

Alright thanks, any recommendations on stones?

Assume I've never properly sharpened a knife before and keep them in good condition (besides the pullthrough, no deep nicks etc).

>>5265352
Sadly I don't. Was thinking of getting the K-80 Combo stone by King.

>>5265341
scratches all over the blade
over grinding of the edge
over time, uneven grinding of the edge, leading to something like the bottom image, from the top

>>5265360

First result on amazon is a tristone Smith system with 400, 600, and 1000 grit stones.

1000 grit seems too coarse though for a really sharp blade

>>5265363

I've noticed it put a scratch onto my chefs knife which is why I stopped sharpening them this way.

>>5265370
1000 is a good finishing point for German knives. they'll be butter knives after a few taps on the board anyway so no sense in going crazy

>>5265370
How is 1000 coarse? You know the larger the number the finer it is, right?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00200L90I/ref=s9_simh_gw_p79_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0Z2CFADZZ6K8QJA50EPA&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846
What I was looking at.

>>5265374

I know, but people talk about using >2000 grit stones for finishing their knives to make them quite sharp.

>>5265375

I honestly can't tell if I'm being trolled or not.

>>5265378
I don't know too much about sharpening, sadly.

>>5265370
Tri-stone systems will cover all your needs for basic sharpening, but if you don't know how to properly sharpen freehand you can ruin your edges. Personally I'd recommend crock sticks for a beginner. The Spyderco Sharpmaker is the best on the market, but Lansky makes one that's very affordable.

>>5265389

Is it really something that is too hard to learn myself from internet guides / videos?

>>5265394
if you're willing to make some mistakes it's not that hard. easy to learn, very difficult to master.

>>5265394
You can, but it takes experience to get it right. You have to develop a feel for what the proper angle is, learn how to hold that angle consistently along the entire edge, and be able to tell when you've reached the apex of that edge.
If you just want to get back to cooking, it's just not really worth the effort.

>>5262336
get a victorinox chef's knife
honing steel
something to sharpen it with

those are the most important things. i don't personally use my pairing knives that often. a bread knife (victorinox with do just fine here as well) is nice to have for large crusty breads, melons, etc. If you make a lot of bread, I'd definitely get a serrated bread knife.

>>5265412
>>5265407

I like having really sharp knives and using some shitty pullthrough doesn't really appeal to me.

I found this

http://www.amazon.com/King-47506-1000-Combination-Waterstone/dp/B001DT1X9O/

Which looks pretty promising.

I could use the 1000 grit for a while until I figured out what the fuck was going on and then use the 6000 when I am confident enough that I wont ruin it.

Depending on use I'd only have to do this once a month or so for an hour right?

>>5265431
I think the perfect starter dual grit would be 600/1200 but I doubt such a thing exists.

600 is coarse enough to fix minor damage and set a new angle, and 1200 is fine enough for a beginner to get a sharp edge without going beyond his abilities

giving a noob a 4000 grit stone on the grounds that it will prevent him from fucking things up is a cruel joke at best

>>5265431
Crock sticks aren't the pull-though type of thing you're thinking of, I think. They're ceramic/diamond coated rods made of exactly the same thing you'd find in ceramic/diamond stones.

But, if you're set on freehanding with flat stones, I'd recommend a Norton coarse/fine combination stone. It's fine enough to get a shaving edge, and you really really need to be sure you have a stone coarse enough for the task. Sharpening takes exponentially longer if you try to skip steps. And it my experience oilstones are less messy and lower maintenance than diamond, and I assume for waterstones as well. And make sure whatever you're using is as long as the knife you're going to be sharpening, it's a pain in the ass if the stone is too short.

>>5265479
>oilstones less messy
>soaks everything nearby with nasty grease
>smells like a junkyard

yeah nah

>>5265490
Soaks? You don't need a slurry of the stuff, you only need enough oil to make sure the stone isn't dry. If it's pooling on the surface you've used to much, just wipe off the excess. And mineral oil has no smell. If you're sharpening kitchen knives you'd better be using mineral oil.

>>5265479
Personally, I prefer water stones for the mess factor, but a lot of that would depend on your set up and method.
I also prefer water stones because it's one less thing to worry about (running out of oil, sludgy oil). That's a minor convenience, though, more or less so depending on method and set up, as well.
No soaking is necessary for oil stones, so there's a pro for them, though there are "splash and go" water stones, too.

>>5262833
No it's not bad. Sharpening is about results, there's what works and what doesn't. So 'bad' would only be if it didn't sharpen the knife, since good obviously means it does sharpen it.

Sharpening is also not about equipment, spending the most money or any other faux status symbols. If you have the right skills you could sharpen your knives on a brick and strop them on a homemade stropping block (loaded with slurry made from the same brick) and end up with them shaving-sharp.

>>5265185
>Except pull-through sharpeners. Those are horrible.
Some are horrible, but they're not all bad. There are better ones, much better ones.

You may not know but some of the best industry-grade sharpeners are powered pull-through sharpeners. Their results are good enough for probably the majority of professional cooks and they don't result in excessive (or uneven) edge wear if used correctly.

>>5265363
Even steeling can result in the profile you show in your second outline and it's not like we wouldn't recommend steeling as a result.

Just like with sharpening by hand there's better and worse ways to do it.

>>5266318
>Even steeling can result in the profile you show in your second outline
what the hell kind of steeling are you doing that results in the removal of blade material?

>>5262667
>I have a 2x72 belt sander,
how much does one of those cost?

>>5266641
>what the hell kind of steeling are you doing that results in the removal of blade material?
Not me bro, I've learned to steel *very* gently. But never seen a working butcher's knife with that exact shape?

When you watch them steel at 100 miles an hour you can understand how they get that way believe me.

>>5262806
>It's not just for bread, and when all your knives are too dull to cut a tomato....

...you sharpen them.

>>5266813
I have, but that's a terrible way to steel, and most working butchers that I've known take better care of their equipment, or just use cheap as shit knives that they don't care about at all, and the ones who tend to use the horrible equipment tend to not be very concerned with overall quality of product, either.

>>5266318
>weeaboo xiv can shave from a brick and a soup spoon so good equipment is a scam

this is what YouTube experts actually believe

>>5262336
These are pretty good. A hefty forged blade for less than $50. I use one of these pretty often at work.

>>5267745
>but that's a terrible way to steel
Agreed. I wasn't recommending it!

>>5268006
>weeaboo xiv can shave from a brick and a soup spoon so good equipment is a scam
I have no idea what you thought you were getting at there but whatever, your inference was not my implication.

>so good equipment is a scam
Indeed not, good equipment is not a scam. However you can overpay for anything.

When a 30 dollar knife can do sterling service in a professional setting, hence more than good enough for a typical home user, and a simple home sharpening setup that costs all of a few bucks can keep that knife sharp enough to shave with, with minimal time or effort, there are some important questions to be asked about what actually is value for money when it comes to this equipment.

>>5269288
>I have no idea where

yes you do. you said "sharpening is not about equipment blah blah a brick faux status symbols".

don't be dense.

>>5262336
>I figure I need a chef's knife, a paring knife, a boning knife, and a bread knife.

Wrong. Unless you plan on doing a whole heap of carcass dissecting or seam cutting of joints of meat a boning knife will go unused and you'll have largely wasted your money. A paring knife can be useful, for the right job but someone who is just moving out of home is unlikely to really need one. A bread knife, yes, purely because cutting mega thick slices of decent bread is infinitely more satisfying than opening a packet of fucking hovis. Cooks knife goes without saying.

>What would you guys recommend?

A decent cooks knife (about 10 inches) and a bread knife. You could probably get away with just a Fibrox pastry knife and a paring knife though.

>>5266318
> some of the best industry-grade sharpeners are powered pull-through sharpeners.
What sharpeners would those be?

>>5262336
I have the Victorinox chef knife in OP pic, I easily do 75% of the work in my kitchen with it.

It's not sexy. The steel wasn't folded 47 times by ancient Japanese masters. But it does cut well, the steel isn't bad and keeps a decent edge. For the price point (IIRC I paid $25+tax at a restaurant supply for mine), you can't go wrong. Never put it in the dishwasher, hand was and dry thoroughly.

For paring and boning, I'd probably google and see if Cook's Illustrated has reviewed those items recently. Someone somewhere will have reposted that info for free.

When it comes to serrated bread knives, I say buy whatever feels good in your hands (ie, try the 'offset' handled versions if possible).

Serrated knives don't have to be made of even decent steel because of the teeth, so don't go out of your way to drop a bundle on high carbon steel forged by vikings and polished by virgins, stainless will be fine. When it gets dull, buy some 'chainsaw files' and knock the burrs in/on the teeth down, or buy a new cheap serrated bread knife.

PS, re: that one guy, the only things I buy from Harbor Freight are hand tools because of the lifetime warranty. As a rule, avoid their electronics.

>>5269642
>Unless you plan on doing a whole heap of carcass dissecting or seam cutting of joints of meat a boning knife will go unused and you'll have largely wasted your money.
Maybe anon wants to eat fish or game from time to time. In which case a chef's knife will be useable, but he'll lose a lot of flesh. A flexible boning knife is one of the most versatile blades other than a chef's knife.

>>5262336
Miracle Blade set on amazon for $11...Fuck yeah!!!! hahahahaha

I have a set of "Mundial" knives at work (NPD) that we got from local restaurant supply store

Cuts so well I'm addicted to dicing now

>>5265378
Right. You start with the coarse grits, then move up to the finer grits. You remove less and less material as you go. The coarse grits are only for seriously fucked up blades.

>>5271389

he probably means the 99 cent ceramic v sharpeners because nice things are a show off status scam.

these days when I go to the local high end strip mall, I see all kinds of trophy wives flaunting their naniwa cho-cera and shapton glass stones. it used to be purse dogs, now it's those expensive scam stones. just the other day I saw a trust fund hipster down at the vintage record store wearing a kanayama strop as a necktie. he probably read about it in GQ. I'm actually not sure what a strop is, but it sounds like a scam.

it's disgusting how sharpening equipment is seen as a faux status symbol in today's materialistic society. I say faux because to me, status is a social construct anyway. it's not even real! so it's faux, get it? society, man. everyone is such a phony.

anyway most beginners can easily turn a hubcap into a katana using a cinder block. if you don't believe me go on youtube.

>>5269625
>yes you do. you said "sharpening is not about equipment blah blah a brick faux status symbols".
Way to miss the point. Are you really this obtuse or are you just being a stupid jerk for lulz?

Assuming the former, let me spell it out for you: you can spend $500 or more on sharpening stones (really good ones) but if you can't maintain your angles you won't be able to sharpen your knives worth a damn.

You want to argue that's not true and *prove* that you're stupid?

If you can hold your angles well you can use a set of $9.99 diamond sharpening plates from the local hardware store and a strop you made at home and get any kitchen knife sharpen enough it'll shave hair.
>hence: sharpening is about skill, not about the cost of the equipment

>>5271389
>What sharpeners would those be?
The one I was thinking of is the Tru Hone. There may be others as well.

>>5271789
Mein Gott, way to come across as a total douche.

>waaah, dude said something i don't agree with so i've gotta go full retard trying to make fun of his opinion

>>5271874
>$9.99 diamond sharpening plates

I'd like to see the hardware store where you're getting prices like that. unless you mean a 3cm keychain sharpener is a "diamond sharpening plate"

>>5271949
They're commonly around 7-9 Euros in Europe, around 7 quid in the UK. And seeing as how they're between $6 and $8 online I presumed that meant they'd be around ten bucks retail in the US, no?

>>5271949
they use artificially manufactured tiny as fuck diamonds which have little value compared to "real" diamonds

>>5274096
sure. you can get tiny keychain size "plates" for 10 bucks. technically that will sharpen a knife. we can therefore conclude that anything larger or owning multiple grits is a status symbol whose primary purpose is like a purse dog. people who buy specialized tools are generally ignorant like that. they don't understand that surface area, stability, or multiple grit sizes are unnecessary faux status symbols.

>>5274192
>sure. you can get tiny keychain size "plates" for 10 bucks.
Dude, there are times when it's better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Pic related is a bevel I completely reground recently with the setup I described in my previous post. Total cost of equipment: about 8 Euros.

>>5274615
cool, you reground a 2 cm edge. that's nice. very relevant to a discussion about chef knives too. feel free to add more genius suggestions on midget sharpening on an extreme budget.

>>5274631
The plates used are 6" x 2", perfectly adequate to also sharpen most kitchen knives. Just because you implied they were thumb-sized doesn't mean they are.

BTW for future reference being a sarcastic jerk doesn't make you sound knowledgeable or worldly, it just makes you come across as an insufferable ass with a superiority complex.

>>5274779
> it just makes you come across as an insufferable ass with a superiority complex

that's an interesting reaction from a guy who started off with the claim that sharpening tools are a show-off mechanism for people who don't have skill

I brought up size more than once and you never gave me any reason to think your $10 tools were anything but the common thumb-sized fragments you get for that kind of money in the US

with your self-righteous attitude about quality tools, your vague responses, and your one irrelevant example, you've given me every reason to think you're a smug youtube expert

in the future, if you want to be helpful, do it in a way that doesn't come off as your typical 4chan neckbeard behavior that bashes anything above the bare minimum as being pretentious/a ripoff/take your pick of sour grapes reasons

a good start would be a link to these mythical 6x2" diamond plates that cost $10 each. those typically cost about 3x as much at an internet store, and substantially more at a brick & mortar hardware store

>>5271949
>>5275144
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-sided-diamond-hone-block-92867.html

i got a $70 7inch santoku on sale for $40. use it for EVERYTHING. just make sure you have a decent large knife, some form of pairing knife, a bread knife is usefull, and a boning/filleting knife if you intend to go hunter/gathering and need to dissasemble some kind of animal. also make sure you have a STEEL. they are Damn important and a quick scrape before use and after washing will keep your knives in great shape

>>5275804

Am I allowed to point out the complaints about warping and unevenness, or is mr. sensitive going to disallow that? Hypothetically, that would mean that one person's results may not be easily duplicated because every specimen is different.

Just asking. I can delete this post if it's too much of a trigger warning.