Vegan new world order

[Rez No.13776993]

Legit question for militant vegetarians/vegans. I feel that some vegetarians and vegans hold disdain for people that eat meat, and in their 'perfect world order', everyone would follow a strictly vegetarian/vegan diet. I tried to follow such a diet for a period of 4 months, during which i was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. My doctor stated that my body couldn't functionally process the fibre provided by an all vegetable diet and that I would face significant digestive issues unless i switched to a meat protein heavy diet. I disregarded their advice and my health continued to decline until i reached a point that i felt i could no longer ignore their advice. I now follow a dietary regime which is low-carb, high protein, medium fat with an 80/20 meat to vegetable routine, and my body is responding incredibly well.
If we lived in a world where everyone was vegetarian/vegan, how would you propose to deal with people whose diet, due to allergies etc, required them to eat meat to survive? How do you feel about the fact that there are actually people out their that NEED meat to maintain a healthy diet?

Not trolling - genuinely interested in feedback, especially if it's not of the 'omg your wrong veg is all you need, your doctor is an idiot' variety.

[Anonymous No.13777031]

I have issues with your doctor's logic that meat is necessary. If you have ulcerative colitis, then an excess of fiber isn't something you want but neither is an excess of meat. Steamed vegetables should be okay, be wary of the overuse of sauce or spices. I feel for you anon, you were dealt a shit hand but I doubt the solution that was presented to you is the best alternative.
On a more general note, I reckon the only thing that's in high quantity in meat and not anywhere else is iron and b12. Men don't need that much iron and should be alright with a vegetarian diet if they balance their diet alright but women are iron deficient from time to time and their need for iron means they would have a reason for eating meat every so often.
tldr. Abuse of meat products is an issue. If you need it to survive go for it.

[Anonymous No.13777044]

>>13777031
While I agree with most of what you say, iron is all over the place. Be sure to take in Vitamin C as it helps the absorbtion of iron. So, lemon, red bell pepper mixed with a lot of veggies that contain iron is FAR more than enough.

>>13776993
Ever considered fish in your diet?

[Anonymous No.13777045]

>>13777031
>Men don't need that much iron and should be alright with a vegetarian diet if they balance their diet alright
Seems like for me if I'm sedentary then I don't need it, but any time I start exercising more again I get strong cravings for iron. Was especially bad after I had tried to start exercising more heavily after being vegetarian for a couple years, I was even having trouble concentrating because of the iron cravings until I finally just ate a bunch of red meat. But now I generally start wanting it about once a week and stay vegetarian the rest of the time which works okay.

[Anonymous No.13777055]

>>13776993
Too bad, the weak deservedly die off.

[Anonymous No.13777063]

>>13777031
I honestly appreciate the thoughtfulness of your feedback, thanks! Most of the vegetable that I eat are steamed, and are fairly simple carbs (Sweet potato, pumpkin, occasioanlly beans, peas and carrots aswell + certain salad items, cucumber, tomato etc.) A lot of the higher protein vegetarian options cause digestive issues for me, and certain items that are neccessary to my diet such as eggs are a straight up no as far as veganism is concerned. The reason I went vegetarian, and then for a very short period vegan, in the first place was because of the complete disdain i feel for the industrial meat complex. I feel that animals are generally abused in our society and that people eat more meat than they need to in order to sustain a healthy diet, mainly out of ease of consumption, conditioning and personal preference. That being said there are a large number of vegetables, particularly those that are high in iron such as spinach, and broccoli that trigger my colitis in a severe way. As this is the case i consume a protein heavy diet to cause less strain on my body.
>>13777044
I quite enjoy fish and seafood, and eat it when I can. One issue i have is that my partner has an incredibly severe allergy to fish and all seafood (anaphylactic shock serious) and because of this i have limited opportunities. Also as mentioned above, i have problems with the fibre content and general reactions to a large number of vegetables that are high in iron.

[Anonymous No.13777064]

>>13776993
Your health is not an excuse to exploit animals.

[Anonymous No.13777067]

>>13777055

[Anonymous No.13777069]

>>13777067
We don't gear our society after the weakest member, fuck off.

[Anonymous No.13777070]

Why wouldn't vegans fuck off from the cooking board, or even better, from the face of this planet.

[Anonymous No.13777074]

>>13777064
Excellent point, so what should I do next?

[Anonymous No.13777075]

>>13777063
Your partner should be fine with you eating seafood as an alternative to high fiber vegetables.
Please consult a doctor (multiple ones) regarding your health issues. That beeing said, there are plenty of solutions for your problem, even in the vegetarian spectrum.

[Anonymous No.13777079]

Thing is the west is sort of retarded when it comes to diet.
Vegans will normally lose their period.
They claim India has lots of vegans and it's perfectly healthy.
In India their are almost no vegans they are mostly vegetarian and eat lots of dairy.
By eating loads of yogurt butter eggs and cheese you can be just as well off as someone who eats meat.
You can also just eat loads of soy and nuts and mushrooms and lift weights and still get big and healthy but it's not as easy because you need to be on top of your nutrition and fat intake at all times and you want high fat because it's good for you unlike what the sugar lobbyist say.

[Anonymous No.13777082]

>>13777069
Stephen Hawking

[Anonymous No.13777084]

>>13777074
I said it as a horrifying troll. What you should do next is find a source of raw milk and incorporate it into your diet with a lot of high quality beef and eggs.

[Anonymous No.13777086]

>>13777074
Get your own chickens in your backyard and raise them and eat the eggs every day for protein and nutrition that's hard to find in a vegan diet.
Those little fucks will have the best life possible with you feeding them and not letting their feet get nailed to cages.

[Anonymous No.13777087]

>>13777084
The only based post in this cringe thread.

[Anonymous No.13777095]

>>13777084
>>13777086
I have a mate who is a hobby farmer and get all of my eggs and milk from him. I also get all my beef from a local organic butcher. Your advice is pretty solid and i agree with what you're saying.

[Anonymous No.13777114]

>>13777095
Right on. OP is nuts asking vegans for health advice. Veganism is simply pro-Ana. (Pro anorexia) So asking these insane zombies for health advice is totally fruitcakes.

[Anonymous No.13777118]

>>13777114
There are also vegetarians, you know?

[Anonymous No.13777128]

>>13777118
Vegetarian is not so bad because they are less cult like.
A lot of India is vegetarian and perfectly healthy because dairy and eggs.
https://youtu.be/JIskI6jf_mk

[Anonymous No.13777134]

>>13777128
I know so many vegans, have cooked for them and they are as normal as anyone else i know. Is this an anglosphere phenomanon? I‘m from Germany. Never met a radicalised vegan in my life. Usually they are very apologetic and don‘t want to create more work for me. But I happily oblige, its fun to cook for them since it’s usually something different.

[Anonymous No.13777152]

>>13777134
In America vegan never apologize lol. Here vegans "quote" are more just antifa when discussing their diet. Toxic aggressive leftists.

[Anonymous No.13777162]

Vegans are the sickest most evil group on the planet. They attack the human food supply just to virtue signal.

They lie constantly. They buy most of their food from countries with no environmental protection or animal welfare laws. They avoid used leather or wool to buy brand new plastic products.

Regenerative agriculture REQUIRES animals. Good people buy local sustainably farmed animal products and used goods, not tropical fruit and new synthetic clothing.

[Anonymous No.13777167]

>>13776993
>>13777063

Honestly I totally get where you are coming from. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place. You don't want to support industrial farming that prioritizes the quantity and efficiency of the animals to make money over the quality and welfare of their lives and deaths.

But even though this will make the vegans seethe, even Ghandi ultimately came to the heavy hearted realization that man cannot live without animals and animal products.

I also don't want to support bad animal husbandry, and the lack of food sovereignty in modern society makes it difficult for your typical consumer to really eat in a way that can truly align with their individual code of ethics and environmentalism.

It doesn't even matter if you are vegan, you are still contributing to massive amounts of suffering and environmental degeneration without actually being able to see the true volume of damage being done.

The only solution I could come up with was not an easy one. People need to abandon all forms of industrial globalized consumerism as much as possible and practicable and replace that consumerism with self sustainability and self production.

For me, I am lucky to have someone who is willing to let me manage some of their farmland to grow crops and produce food using my proposed regenerative agricultural model. Based on other regenerative farms this seems to be a cost effective and an all around ethical method to raising both plants and animals for food.

Leaving in a few weeks, have been reading up on regenerative agriculture. I would strongly recommend looking up Gabe Brown (currently reading his book Dirt to Soil) and Joel Salatin.

[Anonymous No.13777195]

>>13777167
For a large percentage of people in the western and eastern hemisphere self sustainability is simply not an option. For various reasons.

Industrial farming and industrial animal husbandry are (for better or worse) the corner stones of modern life. Just look at this board. Convenience & Fast-Food galore.

If one has the means of growing their own crop or even animals, good for them. The other alternative is to support LOCAL growers and farmers.

[Anonymous No.13777249]

>>13777162
Well said. At least the vegans themselves get sick and die Young from following Satan's path.

[Anonymous No.13777254]

>>13777167
Their is a few things you forget that are obvious if you look at history.
If you become a huge powerful country you have to keep up with modern technology or your fucked on the world stage completing with other countries that will do anything to gain power.
Just look at the colonialism it was people with better tech abusing people without any.
Sure everyone can be a farmer but not everyone wants to be and if your all self sufficient farmers you can be easily taken advantage of by people who group up into huge groups.
But that said long term it's gonna fuck up everything unless they change it up but short term it's way to dangerous.

[Anonymous No.13777281]

>>13777195
>For a large percentage of people in the western and eastern hemisphere self sustainability is simply not an option. For various reasons.

Well, I'm not even really talking about a large percentage. I'm talking about people who have the means who want to be more productive and self sustainable.

I'm talking small numbers here. Currently 1-2 percent of the United States workforce consists of farmers. I'd like to see that number go to 5 percent, ideally 20 percent. Basically get the numbers back to where they were prior to the Green Revolution. I would most like to encourage people who live in cities and suburbs who are dissatisfied with that life and have the financial means to leave to pursue a better life.

People who are content on getting obese off of mcdonalds, industrial snacks and beetus drinks can continue doing so.

[Anonymous No.13777389]

If you're going to defend meat eating, you must also defend Chinese eating bat soup, dogs, and cats. You must also defend the concept of higher extra terrestrial beings consuming our flesh. I eat meat, mostly out of convenience but also because I'm a neet living at home, but I'm not going to defend it by saying it's moral. Obviously it's a choice where you choose to cause a lower lifeforms suffering in order to satiate your own appetite, but we can't defend it without defending all domination and consumption of the weaker.

[Anonymous No.13777444]

>>13777389
>Obviously it's a choice where you choose to cause a lower lifeforms suffering in order to satiate your own appetite,

Appetite or my instinctive, ancestral desire to live? Either way, the same choice is made by vegans, and they choose to kill animals for their food (and destroy the environment with pesticides as well)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovGHKr-NoqQ

[Anonymous No.13777501]

>>13777389
I don't have to defend people eating dogs and cats just like a vegan doesn't have to defend child slavery for crop production.

I'm sorry you're an ornamental, pathetic little neet leeching off your parents instead of getting off your fat ass and doing something for once.

[Anonymous No.13777890]

>>13776993
>Not trolling - genuinely interested in feedback, especially if it's not of the 'omg your wrong veg is all you need, your doctor is an idiot' variety.

if this is the case, why ask this question on a board where most of the users are subbed to r/antivegan? nice attempt at earnestness but i give you a 2/10.

[Anonymous No.13777901]

>>13777134
American vegans are by and large insufferable who use their diet as a substitute for an actual personality.

[Anonymous No.13777909]

>>13777281
>I would most like to encourage people who live in cities and suburbs who are dissatisfied with that life and have the financial means to leave to pursue a better life.
That's the issue you fucking idiot.

>I'm talking small numbers here. Currently 1-2 percent of the United States workforce consists of farmers. I'd like to see that number go to 5 percent, ideally 20 percent.
ALMOST ALL LAND IS ALREADY OWNED AND EXPLOITED IN SOME FASHION
IF MORE PEOPLE LEFT THE CITIES THERE WOULD BE TOO MANY PEOPLE TO SUSTAIN AN AGRICULTURAL LIFESTYLE
THERE WOULD BE LITERALLY LESS WILDLIFE AND MORE HABITAT DESTRUCTION VIA PEOPLE LIVING THE CITIES
EARTH IS HORRIFICALLY OVERPOPULATED
DUMB VEGAN FUCKS DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS SHIT DESPITE HOW OBVIOUS IT IS

[Anonymous No.13777933]

>>13777055
So bats caused two epidemics?
>prion disease
>same thing as a contagious disease

[Anonymous No.13777964]

>>13776993
Veganism is a personal choice and moral-bound.
My perfect world is me and my rescue animals safe and sound.
Some people can't go on a plant-only diet and that's okay

The sustainability tax that's coming is unrelated to vegans advocating for meat to be a thing anymore, basically breeding a new animal for each person who wants steak/beef/ is just unsustainable.

The plant-based world will come but for a different reason, mainly because our human population will boom and we won't be able to make space for the new animals we have to produce for steak/beef/ and so on

[Anonymous No.13778261]

>>13777964
>basically breeding a new animal for each person who wants steak/beef/ is just unsustainable.

Totally meaningless comment. There was some imbecile erlich or something like that, making the same "dire warnings" in the 60s. He was an idiot and so are you.

If you want to reduce meat production, end all free lunch at schools, end all food stamps and end all free food for refugees. Going to do that?

>The plant-based world will come but for a different reason, mainly because our human population will boom and we won't be able to make space for the new animals we have to produce for steak/beef/ and so on.

We don't need any new land for cows, just let cows on the grasslands you are currently wasting making ethanol corn, soy and wheat.

[Anonymous No.13778306]

>>13777909

You act like it's impossible to get out of the city and move to the country and start a farm.

I'm moving out in a couple months, there is land available this very fertile area for cheap. And even entry level jobs in the area to supplement my income if I need extra money while setting up.

My end goal on the farm is to increase wildlife biodiversity, so idk about your less wildlife thing.

Tbh I don't really know what you're getting all capslocky for. I'm not a vegan.

[Anonymous No.13778446]

>>13778306
It will be harder than you realize. Read "Sod and Stubble" for a picture of what you're in for.

[Anonymous No.13778485]

>>13778446
>read a fiction novel to learn the reality of what you're in for

Tell me, what am I in for?

[Anonymous No.13778513]

>>13778485
I mean, they don't know how educated you are on the topic so that's a massive assumption. They aren't wrong that it's difficult though lol. I'm happier working construction than on the farm. Same early hours, same hard labor, much better money!

I'm curious though, what area are you in and how are you planning to improve biodiversity? Do you plan to connect with local restaurants? I think that's how most of these small traditional farms make their money.

[Anonymous No.13778549]

>>13778261
We have to kill them faster due to the demand, so it will be veal and not beef.
I'm not bothering explaining, if you want the information google search sustainability tax

[Anonymous No.13778568]

>>13778549
>We're going to tax your meat.
>Here's some typical lies and gaslighting to rub it in.

[Anonymous No.13778578]

>>13778549
Why tax meat instead of cutting subsidies? The subsidies that pay for farmers to grow animal feed. No matter what you're going to raise the cost of meat, piss off farmers, and the government gets more money.

You want meat to be more sustainable? Then cut all the feed subsidies and have meat be at its real market price. Sadly the massive food corporations would lobby hard against that. If food in the USA was at its real market price we'd likely help solve the obesity epidemic too. People wouldn't be able to afford as much fast food, the main supporter of battery farming.

What kind of timeline are you talking about by the way? The next 100 years?

[Anonymous No.13779049]

>>13778578
Any vegans wanna answer this

[Anonymous No.13779113]

>>13777055
Every single major epidemic: Enabled by large congregations of humans which could only be sustained through extensive agriculture.

[Anonymous No.13779157]

>>13778513
I'm in the midwest, going to a farm that's already in operation but is willing to allow me to use unused space on their property for regenerative farming and I will help their current operation on the side.

Definitely going to market to whoever will listen. Restaurants, farmers markets, pick your own services, argotourism, I'll try it all. :)

Planning to improve biodiversity by creating biodiversity in the land. Going to practice very low input farming techniques like no till, as little mechanical disturbance as possible, growing hardy crops, little to no chemical intervention (probably no chemical intervention unless I begin working on converting the conventionally operated corn and soy fields), and utilizing animals for manure and controlled soil disturbance.

I also am lucky to have a ton of timber on the land that needs some serious management. There are tons of fallen trees that I will be removing to create compost, and I will be growing higher value trees, like wood, nut and various fruit trees to help boost soil health and shelter/feed my livestock and hopefully wildlife.

There's no money in conventional farming. But I keep hearing more and more reports of regenerative farms making enough money to expand operation and go on vacation and hire employees. Sounds promising to me.
It's hard labor but my hard work pays off in more than just money, since I'll be able to feed myself!

[Anonymous No.13779180]

>>13779049
Not a vegan, but I think you asked too good of a question.

I even sat for a while trying to play devils advocate. Best argument I could come up with is "OH, so you want people to starve?" Even though you are literally only wanting to cut food from fat shitholes who live off of cheap processed consumable beetus, and they would't starve; just lose weight and maybe start cooking for themselves because fast food costs starts getting in the way of their fortnite and anime money.

Who knows, if fat fuck westerners would be less fat and diabetic, healthcare wouldn't be as financially tight and the government could put more money into helping poor people get food.... or giving poor people economic opportunities and education on how to feed themselves....

idfk vegans are fucking silly.

[Anonymous No.13779255]

>>13779157
Sounds like you found a great place! Looks like you've studied up. Hopefully the first few years of hard work pay off for you. You're very correct about people paying good money for super high quality ingredients with a good story. Hopefully I'll see you posting in /out/ with updates. They'd love that in the homegrown threads.

[Anonymous No.13779323]

>>13779113
based and primalpilled

[Anonymous No.13779327]

>>13779180
Thanks for the high quality response. I'm at a place where I'm trying to figure this shit out. I get veganism from an ethical standpoint. I might not agree entirely, but it's a valid lifestyle choice.

If you look at our countries agricultural systems there's some blatantly obvious problems. Primarily the resources wasted on growing corn and soy. I could break down the entire chain but that's unnecessary I think. The bottom line is that subsidies are making an unnatural market. In a capitalistic system, all niches are exploited. One niche that American capitalists have exploited beautifully is the government handout. Pure capitalists are smart. They'll take a mile when given an inch for profit. The subsidy lobbying for corn, soy, and COTTON has resulted in one of the largest welfare programs in history. Farmers are incentivized to grow these and only these as monocultures. It's the only way they can make money, as the market value of their produce is terrible.

There's so much I could go into here. I've got enough floating around in my head for a 6 page essay. What I really want to do is talk with a vegan that knows about these problems. A vegan that isn't talking down from a moral molehill. Where are the vegans that could tell me where I'm wrong?

[Anonymous No.13779434]

>>13779327

Sorry, it's me again. I don't think you're going to find a vegan on 4chan that isn't talking down a moral molehill. I'm not saying they're not out there, but probably not on this site.

I would never in a million years deny that our modern agricultural systems, especially post green new deal, are entirely fucked up. The "Get big or get out" mantra has resonated with farmers for too long. It created a horrible business model that destroyed millions of acres and put even more out of business. Which is probably why the age of the average farmer today is around 65.

The silver lining is that this type of farming is only about 60 years old. It can go just as quickly as it came. In my research I found what appears to be something I can only describe as an agricultural revolution brewing just out of the gaze of the average urbanite consumers attention.


Farmers need to start putting in less inputs to fight against their land and that starts with spending less money. They need to stop tilling, and slowly ween their land off of chemical treatments, they need to buy crops that are hardier, not ones that are only bred to grow bigger and faster. They need to keep the soil covered at all times and keep a living root in the soil. They need crop biodiversity so plants can engage in active symbiotic nutrient exchanges.

I'm not sure if farming could make someone a millionaire. Maybe it could. But that's never what farming should have ever been about.

idk. Vegans don't really have any answers for me. Most of them aren't farmers, and the ones who are generally keep to themselves and their small market gardens. Some of them even acknowledge of the necessity of animal agriculture and are only veganic farmers for personal reasons.

[Anonymous No.13779548]

true herbivores are very rare in nature, porcupines I know for sure are because as a survival tip they can be eaten raw unlike other animals like deer, which eat small birds, eggs, and rodents at times.

[Anonymous No.13779582]

vegans itt, what are some good protein sources that aren't S O Y or peanut butter?

[Anonymous No.13780256]

>>13777055
Except living in proximity to domesticated animals promotes disease resistance in humans. Semi-nomadic pastoralism is the most based way of life.

[Anonymous No.13780607]

>>13779582
COOOOOM

[Anonymous No.13780620]

>>13777055
Pandemics are caused by globalization. End globalization and you end pandemics.

[Anonymous No.13780660]

The facts remain, humans can thrive on a vegan diet, and humans have a high level of consciousness with logical reasoning skills. Either you can empathize with suffering creatures and you SUPPRESS your empathy based on religious beliefs, or you're a simply a might makes right sociopath. Veganism is self evidently morally righteous, and it brings to light the morbid condition of our species that can be changed.

[Anonymous No.13780711]

>>13776993
Vegans and Vegetarians don't actually care about animals or the planet. It's just armchair activism below the bare minimum of effort to superficially make yourself feel as though you are actually making an impact .