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/ck/ - Food & Cooking


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14660063 No.14660063 [Reply] [Original]

This thread is dedicated to all kinds of wine discussion.
What are the best bottles you've been able to try? What are you drinking now, looking for, holding on to for an occasion, or just to age a bit? Which country makes the best wine, in your opinion?

>> No.14660066

Whatever wine is cheapest and comes in a carton.
Drink 2 or 3 cartons and then take a nap

>> No.14660111

Just don't fall for the frech wine meme. We're not in the 80's anymore.

>> No.14660126

>>14660111
The wine market in america must be massively different from the shit we get in western europe. French wine is still king here especially with the hundreds of small wineries applying new vinification techniques (temp controlled maturation, indigenous yeasts, steel/concrete vats and no oak,etc) and going for organic/biodynamic grapes and forgotten varietals. Nobody drinks bordeaux anymore except for old farts and chinks. Portuguese wine have jumped on this new winemaking which is why they have great stuff coming up nowadays and italy is slowly following behind, spanish wines are still pretty old school. But I guess even here if you're not a winefag people still drink supermarket shit.

>> No.14660415

>>14660126
Californians and Oregonians are doing the same things the French are doing in terms of experimental wines.
If you're ever in an upscale wine shop that carries American wine, keep an eye out for Ampelos. Truly exceptional stuff.

>> No.14660485

I have come to enjoy drinking red yellowtail wines since I have come to know something of the proper method of drinking wine. I think the one I last had was a sangria. I live in a small town (150k people). What's a decent and common red wine for under 20$ for a 750mL?
I live

>> No.14660535
File: 31 KB, 465x620, CAB050DD-2589-4F35-9F0D-4995B149F83A.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14660535

>>14660063
> Best bottle
Without a doubt the Rioublanc ‘11. Its decently cheap (bout 16 euros where I live) and is simply just a fantastic wine.
> What are you holding on to an occasion?
My father brought home a bottle of Ch Rothschild Lafite 2006 for my birthday. I’ll pop it for my marriage
> Which country makes the best wine?
If we don’t count France, I really enjoy South American and South African wine. American wine tastes like watered out grape juice

Pic related, best wine for an affordable price there is

>> No.14660580

>>14660126
The UK is still a huge market for Bordeaux, don't forget that.

Also while winemakers are avoiding using as much new oak, old and large format oak is still very much used for a lot of fine wine as opposed to stainless steel/concrete.

>> No.14660583

>>14660126

>spanish wines are still pretty old school. But I guess even here if you're not a winefag people still drink supermarket shit.

Lot‘s of people i‘ve met still go to some old and dusty Reserva or Gran Reserva. There are plentyof modern Spanish wines around, even outside the domestic market. Think of Catalunya, Toro, Bierzo, Jumilla ..

>> No.14660745
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14660745

Thoughts on this? I've never tried Italian wine and this shit is $20 a bottle. Is it any good?

>> No.14660880

>>14660415
Probably out of my price range, I'm lucky I can find good "experimental" wine for 7€-12€ sometimes I splurge up to 25€. Will keep an eye out though.
>>14660580
Oak is good when it's needed which is not all the time for every style/year/variety.
>>14660583
I did taste some amazing priorat wines (including a 100yo vine carignan), though they don't stock much here aside from basic rioja/verdejo.

>> No.14660888

>>14660745
Valpolicella is the entry point for Italian wines.

>> No.14660961

I love white wine but can never find a red that I love, what’s the red equivalent of a good Montrachet?

>> No.14661324
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14661324

>>14660063
I actually just bought myself a big box of Franzia the other day. Pic related.

>> No.14661373

>>14660111

Looks like you're the one stuck in the past.

Embarrasing comment, especially seeing the current trend in french wineries.

>> No.14661513

Male wine drinker here. It’s funny buying a good Bordeaux. I usually get asked who I’m buying it for, Wife? Mother? Sister? Surely it can’t be for yourself. Then when I tell it’s for me, I get a shocked look. They recover and decide to ‘play along’ with me. Then they start telling me lots of things I know I about wine.
It’s at this point, if I can be bothered, I go through their shelves and tell them all the ones I’ve tasted and why I like them or not. Which regions I prefer, big up Marlborough, and why I’m not a fan of Californian and 100% prefer Spanish.
Now is when I think they feel bad. Because they always offer me loads of samples. I can usually free taste like 4/5 different ones min on every visit.
Having said that met a really nice man last time through the airport who was giving out Schlumberger samples. We had a great chat. He was awesome.
Now girls at bars when you order a large white find you immediately intriguing. They watch you take a sip. I think they are waiting to see if you make a face. When you look pleased then they have their in to strike up a conversation.
I don’t know a lot of other male wine drinkers but I wish I did. I can only go on so many tasting sessions with girls.

>> No.14661533

>>14660961
>what's the red equivalent of a white wine
???

>> No.14661686
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14661686

I will defend cheap Spanish wine until I die. This shit right here is my BRAND. If I don't know what to buy, I can always count on this being good.

>> No.14661703
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14661703

>Hey guys let's drink some biodynamic wine from some experimental winery? It's just $38 a bottle! Oh but there is no sulfites! But I will enjoy some cold cuts that are litterally carcinogenic!

>> No.14661709
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14661709

Tried this a while back cause a friendly anon suggested red blends for beginners.
Long story short, it was kinda shit. Overwhelmingly tart with bit of sweetness at the end. Still interested in wines though so I'm looking for tips
Thanks

>> No.14661712
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14661712

Will cheap $10-20 wine bottles ever be valuable in the future? Are they worth hanging on to?

>> No.14661713

>>14660961
>>14661709
You guys should try some Portuguese Alentejano Blends. They are cheap and great.

>> No.14661718

>>14661709
if you thought apothic was tart, wine is not for you
that shit is like drinking candy
stop consuming processed sugar and your palate will return to normal

>> No.14661739

>>14661712
No, 98% of the wines are made to drink while they are still youg.

>> No.14662429
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14662429

>>14661533
Haven’t you ever heard of comparing something? Or did you try to fit the square peg into the round hole as a child?

>> No.14662518

Kirkland brand
1.5l bottles for $9

>> No.14662536
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14662536

french wine isn't that great and it all tastes like vanilla
spain and italy make far superior wines that have greater variety, depth and alcohol content

>> No.14662643

>>14660063
Something quite different to the other replies but very wine related:

How difficult is it to make wine at home? I've got vineyards in my back yard and my grandpa used to always make some amazing wine but he sadly passed away before he could teach me or my dad on the process.

The last few years I just collect them, "juice" them or whatever it's called in English, basically the same process as crushing them with your feet but in a sanitized way. After that we let them sit in a barrel for a few weeks before taking them to a local small brewery which they turn into an alchohoic drink (not wine).

But this year I wanted to make it like my grandpa, any tips on how to do that?

>> No.14662887

I live a fairly small town (150k people). I'm trying to experiment in terms of wine, but I can't seem to find anything but 2017 or newer California's. Most of the California's I've had are vinegary bullshit. Any recommendations for a sweet red California.

>> No.14662974

Should I drink tonight? .

>> No.14663059
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14663059

>>14661703
>Hey white maggot cunt let's drink some premium unleaded from some Da BP dat we avnt rob yet? It's just $1.38 a litre Dardy! Oh but there is no lead! But I will enjoy some VB's that are litterally carcinogenic!

>> No.14663063

>>14662887
>California vinegar shits

Yeah but seriously California wines are trash, anybody that thinks otherwise hasn’t had good old world wines. Get wine delivered depending on what state you live in.

>> No.14663086

>>14662974
I drink wine literally every night.

>> No.14663094

What is the difference between "old world" and "new world" wines?

>> No.14663147

>>14660063
>Which country makes the best wine
>Shiraz
Australia
>Cabernet Sauvignon
They're all pretty good
>Pinot Noir
Chile
>Merlot
Not sure
>Grenache
Spain
>Rose
France
>Chardonnay
USA
>Riesling
Not sure
>Sauvignon Blanc
New Zealand
>Pinot Gris/Griggio
Don't like
>Sparkling White
Italy. Followed by Germany.

>> No.14663164

>>14660066
Godspeed to you, I genuinely miss living like that.

>> No.14663177

>>14661712
My friends parents don't drink. They have a wine rack in the living room filled with $10-20 wine they have been gifted over the years (imo encouraging more wine gifts). Anyway we've taken to drinking the oldest of them. Some of them can be saved with coke, but plenty go down the sink. No, don't hang on to them.

>> No.14663230

>>14663177
>don't drink
>have a wine rack filled with wine
Will it increase my social status or make me appear richer than I am if I keep some $10-20 bottles on a rack?

>> No.14663314

>>14663230
I think it's more about an unwillingness to throw away a gift. Or re-gift it.

>> No.14663675

>>14662429
>hey what's the fried version of soup
>that doesn't make any fucking sense
>IT'S A COMPARISON
White wine and red wine share very few similarities in flavor, mouthfeel, and structure. If you like Montrachet for its white fruit and slate character, there's basically no red wine that fits. If you hate tannin, then you telling me you like Montrachet is irrelevant.
Drink red burgundy I guess, you'll probably hate it even though it's the same region.

>> No.14663684

>>14660063
bag

>> No.14663693

>>14662536
all california wine tastes like grape fanta
all spanish wine tastes like dirty pie
all italian wine tastes like burning leaves
see how retarded you sound?

>> No.14663697

>>14661712
I had that same kind with some fruits (strawberries and blueberries) shit was delicious would recommend everyone try at least once

>> No.14663778
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14663778

>>14661686
Don't forget Portuguese

>> No.14664164

J

>> No.14664187

>>14664164
E

>> No.14664259

>>14660126
>with the hundreds of small wineries applying new vinification techniques (temp controlled maturation, indigenous yeasts, steel/concrete vats and no oak,etc)
this is all pretty standard stuff m8

>> No.14664265

>>14663693
you sound like that finger lakes guy kek

>> No.14664269

>>14661703
What the fuck are you even doing in this thread, you subhuman bogan?

>> No.14664702

>>14664259
I dont have the vocabulary since im not industry so i must be mistaken. But there are new techniques being used, like carbonic maceration in southern/rhone wines to make light/juicy easy drinking reds.

>> No.14664921

Anyone else looking forward to this years beaujolais nouveau in November?

>> No.14665023

>>14664921
>beaujolais nouveau
Fruit juice usually. Try to find some reasonably priced Beaujolais crus (Brouilly, Fleurie, Morgon...) and see how amazing Gamay can be.

>> No.14665047

>>14665023
>Fruit juice
Sure, it is what it is but I find a fresh once per year thing like that enjoyable. Makes a great Sangria.

>> No.14665159
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14665159

>>1466088

>I did taste some amazing priorat wines (including a 100yo vine carignan), though they don't stock much here aside from basic rioja/verdejo.

Pic related is my favourite affordable wine from Priorat, try it if you get the chance

>> No.14665410
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14665410

I tried this recently. It was pretty decent. Not my favorite rioja, but not bad at all for $10.

>> No.14665458

I've tried a dozen different Ripazzo's but they are all quite disappointing without food pairings. Is there one fit for simply sharing as is?

>> No.14666031

Do you guys really spend $20+ on wine that you've never heard of or tasted before? That's a pretty big gamble for me.

>> No.14666412
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14666412

>>14660063
C-can I join guys??
also do you like vermuth??

>> No.14666431

>>14662643
>How difficult is it to make wine at home?

Very easy, I do it all the time. I didn't know shit about winemaking when I started yet even my first batch turned out great, on par with store wines. Just buy one of those ready-made wine sets they sell in stores, they come with instructions and all the chemicals you need.

>> No.14666439
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14666439

>> No.14666472
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14666472

>>14666439
>12.5% alc
man, I miss when bordeaux wasn't about being as viscous and intense as possible

>> No.14666773

>>14663147
Germany has quite great Rieslings. Not a fan of buttery Chardonnays, and it comes down to Chile vs. Oregon when it comes to Pinot Noir for me.

>>14662643
Where are you from fra ? It sounds like you are making Grappa and not wine. What kind of grapes are you growing ?

>> No.14667056

I will be drinking a Chablis tonight. I am not familiar with French wine but have been drinking it the past couple weeks. I had a sancerre, a haut medoc bordeaux, a cote du rhone vacqueyras , and now a chablis. It has all been good so far. I still enjoy the Italian wines I would normally drink better but I am enjoying these French ones.

>> No.14667060
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14667060

>>14666412
Move over peasant

>> No.14667395

>>14667056
>a haut medoc bordeaux
I just had Les Haut de Trintaudon recently, it was quite good! Was looking for something more with an earth tone.

>> No.14667406

have some stags' leap chardonnay arriving with groceries tonight. was eyeing their petite sirah but it went out of stock.

>> No.14667425

>>14666439
>12,5%
That's why they call the french faggots.

>> No.14667467

Since im in a market entirelu dominated by Spanish wine, I’ve decided to pick it up. I have two Valdepeñas and a Utiel-Requena on me.

>> No.14668120

>>14667060
Are these expensive or something? Never heard of them.

>> No.14668131

>>14666773
I'm from Greece and the last few years me and my dad were making tsipouro, not grappa. I'm not sure exactly what variety the grapes are called, but they're deep purple once they're done and have a soursweet flavor. My grandpa used to say they're Russian, but I'm not sure.

>> No.14668144

>>14664702
kek that just means leaving clusters to start fermenting and collapse under their own weight

>> No.14668167

>>14668131
>My grandpa used to say they're Russian, but I'm not sure.
Maybe a Xenomavro ?

https://www.wine-searcher.com/grape-582-xinomavro

I would not find it difficult at all either to be able to create the wine either. Especially since you already some vines!

>> No.14668388

I recently got heaps of figs and opened a bottle of Sangue di Giuda to pair with them
on a somewhat related not, god I love figs and Recioto, or Cherries and Recioto, I should find the time to go to a local winery with a friend and get a few bottles

anyway, I'm curious, how much do you spend, on average, for a single bottle of wine?
it seems most people posting in these threads are americans that either won't commit to anything more than service station wine or that will only buy relatively obscure and expensive bottles from remote locations
for all its flaws Italy has supermarkets which sell good wine, so without factoring in the boxed wine I use for cooking I may spend around €5-6 per bottle, with which I can still get pleasant wine
how about you all?

>> No.14668503
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14668503

>>14668388
>€5-6 per bottle, with which I can still get pleasant wine
Depends on the occasion and what I am in the mood for. There are decent to good wines you can get for under 10usd, but they're cheap mostly due to no one wanting them. Living close to a wine making region, makes trying local stuff interesting. Although I am not a huge white wine drinker, the local stuff can be really easy to drink.

As for the better stuff, having relaxed liquor laws makes obtaining alcohol easy. There are places dedicated to wine and cheese only, and even some sommeliers running or suggesting what to stock. You can get some really interesting bottles for under 20USD, or you can go all in and get stuff north of 200USD.

>> No.14668564

>>14668388
>how much do you spend, on average, for a single bottle of wine?
I just started out, so im limiting to under $20. But so far I haven’t bought anything over $17. Realizing I like Tempranillo has made wine buying much easier. A Reserve, even Gran Resva can be as cheap as $12. The beat one I’ve had wasn’t even old, for $15, from Viña Mayor.

>> No.14668566

>>14660111
Absolutely tastlet lmao

>> No.14668807

What’s a good Albariño to start with? If possible, nothing too pricey.

>> No.14668862
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14668862

>>14668807
Costco has this really solid one with a green cork for like ~$12, one of the best I've had. Luckily albarino doesn't really get that expensive save for some of the single-vineyard reservas

>> No.14669669

Got a bottle of this at home waiting for an appropriate occasion. First tried it while working at a restaurant with a very nice wine program and randomly came across a bottle in a store a few months ago.

https://www.klwines.com/Products/i?i=1116101

>> No.14669875

god i cant wait for harvest time

>> No.14670050
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14670050

>>14669669
Cool man, Chenin rarely disappoints!

On that topic however, I had this the other day and I wasn't too impressed for the price ($28 AUD). Perfectly pleasant wine made in a demi-sec style, a lot of pineapple, apple and pear, but nothing else going on. I probably shouldn't be surprised because it appears that Barton & Guestier are quite a big entity. Went well with Northern Indian food though.

>> No.14670449

>>14668167
Yes, that's it! I live near naoussa as well so this must be it. Thank you so much man, I'll attempt to make it and post results in this board.

>> No.14670482

Any Aussies? Love how cheap wine is here, the $3 Shiraz at Aldi isn't half bad.
Too bad beer is so expensive though

>> No.14670719

>>14670482
The Chianti at Aldi isn't half bad. I don't have an interest in cheap wine anymore other than as an intellectual exercise though.

>> No.14671087

It's Night Train for me - toot toot - one-way ticket to nowhere.
On the nose *sniff* bouquet of bad decisions and regret.
On the palate *swish swish spit* notes of city jail and STD clinic.
Cheers!

>> No.14671117
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14671117

>>14665023
Mmmmm . . . Cru beaujolais- best bang for your buck French wine. Here's one, with a couple of other very good but very reasonably priced wines: An Alsatian cremant and a white txakolina.

>> No.14671194

>>14671117
Are you French? I have never seen any of those producers before.

>> No.14671196

>>14668144
Yeah and it makes different wine than what you're used to from a rhone/languedoc.

>> No.14671217

>>14663693
jokes on you, i like grape fanta and burning leaves

>> No.14671247
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14671247

Ordered Kenwood Artist Series Cab Sav for my parents 30th anniversary, if I get to try it, I will let you know how it is!

>>14670449
Cheers ! I look forward to hearing from you again !

>> No.14671276

>>14671194
Nope. Believe it or not, I live in Napa. We really don't have cellar palates :-)

>> No.14671286

>>14671276
Cellar palates?

>> No.14671289

>>14668144
>>14671196
You have to do it in a reductive environment as well for it to be carbonic maceration.

>> No.14671294

>>14663063
>Yeah but seriously California wines are trash, anybody that thinks otherwise hasn’t had good old world wines.
Yeah but seriously, anybody that thinks otherwise hasn’t had good good California wines.
Here's copypasta of wisdom: I Think there is good wine everywhere but you have to try a lot before you find what you like.

>> No.14671301

>>14671294
There's no point in arguing with those people, stop it.

>> No.14671310

>>14671286
When people only like what's in their cellar (i.e. what they've purchased to suit their tastes), implying they never try different wines to expand their palates, and, on /ck/, it means shitting on wines one doesn't like.

>> No.14671323

>>14671301
You're right. I do like the quote though.

>> No.14671339

>>14671310
I wasn't thinking about that, it was more that most of the same producers get exported to here as well as America and I don't recognise those.

Those two French wines look super old school.

>> No.14671581

Man, I just can't get into white wine.

>> No.14671586

>>14671581
Why?

>> No.14671719
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14671719

Drank some natural meme wine. Definitely more a light red than a rose with that 14%ABV. Carignan/cinsault from Corbières, easy drinking juicy red with some funk. Not bad.

>> No.14671729
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14671729

i can't get into rose. i've tried for awhole but they all just fall on a range from trailer park wine to something i can only describe as tinker bell's wedding night.

>> No.14671763

>>14671729
There's some really nice roses from bandol/provence (great drank cold in summer), but most of the roses anywhere on this planet are dogshit/designed to appeal to dumb girls.

>> No.14671765

>>14671339
See if you can find a specialty wine shop in your town. I live in the Southern US but my local shop gets some really neat stuff Ive never seen elsewhere

>> No.14671814

>>14671765
I work at a wine store already man, I have a pretty good grasp of the market. That being said I don't know everything and they possibly could be floating around.

>> No.14671817

>>14671729
I find that pink wines from Spain and Italy can be really good. That being said, you'll want to be spending >$25 for the most part.

>> No.14671966

What makes something "old world" wine?

>> No.14671991

is there any wine that tastes "overfermented" but in a good way? i like my alcohol to have a little bit of stank.

>> No.14672393

>>14671966
Produced in the old world, i.e. anywhere in Europe or West Asia. Technically East Asian and African wine is old world, but they're seen as new winemaking regions.

>>14671991
Go to a wine store and ask for <$20 'natural wine'.

>> No.14672454
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14672454

>>14668862
Thanks. I don’t have a Cosco membership but I told a friend who does to keep an eye out for it.
I was at a Spanish restaurant today and asked the chef what would be a good one. He rec’d pic related. Anyone here tried it?

Unrelated, but is Vivino any good for wine recs?

>> No.14672484
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14672484

>>14663675
>he’s never had fried soup dumplings

Also it’s wine you fucking retard, it’s just a DIFFERENCE IN GRAPES. That’s like saying it’s impossible to compare an IPA to a Lager. Or that it’s impossible to compare a Chevy to a Toyota.

>> No.14672618

>>14671339
One is a cru beaujolais and the other is a sparkler from alsace. Both very good wines at very good prices. Also being that it's summer, I'd recommend you get your hands on white and red wine from Basque country. They're light and refreshing, very food friendly, and affordable.

>> No.14673428

How many of you are alcoholics?

>> No.14674027

>>14663147
What a pleb taste.

>> No.14674327

>>14673428
My reflux won’t let me

>> No.14675369

>>14672454
Vivino's better than nothing, but just go into a good store and ask a staff member. You'll get a much better wine that way.

>> No.14675373

god i wish corse wines were easier to find. shop where i went to university imported their own.

>> No.14676702

>>14672454
Vivino pushes wines they are trying to sell, and I would never recommend buying from them. Just go to a good wine/liquor store.

Vivino is good for keeping track of what you drink, and for what bottles you want to drink. I wishlist a wine if I want to buy it later, and I give a quick rating to what I drank to keep track. Some people will say to use cellar tracker but that is more serious and the interface is shittier and less people use it overall.

>> No.14676807
File: 111 KB, 1444x1000, 1598979140455.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14676807

Why do starches go with everything?

>> No.14676930

>>14676807
They're pretty bland.

>> No.14676962

Why is English wine such a niche market compared to French or Spanish?

>> No.14676977

>>14676962
Because there's so little of it produced in comparison to those countries.

>> No.14676980

>>14676977

Very true still an interesting market giving how obscure it is

>>14671729

Rose just taste like flavoured water to me doesn't really have anything about it that stands out like dry or sparkling

>> No.14676989

>>14671729
>>14676980
A lot of pink wine is either sold as candy water or acid water to women who don't want to think about what they're drinking.

That being said there's some great pink wine out there with great character.

>> No.14677742

>>14661686
This some good wine for the price.

>> No.14679126

Just drank some 100% cinsault from languedoc, a northern rhone syrah and a lisboa white wine from local varietals. All bottles under 10€, feels good man.

>> No.14679241

Drinking a Pouilly Fume right now. This is the most bone dry, acidic white I have ever had. I can barely even detect any flavors other than dry and acid. Is there some secret to enjoying this more? I had it with some fish I made and it didn't make it more flavorful. The Sancerre I had was similar, I can't seem to get a taste for these French Sauvignon Blanc, not that I drink much of the New Zealand stuff either.

>> No.14679251

>>14673428
I drink a glass a night. Every night. Does that count as being an alcoholic?
I don't get smashed every night, but the stuff I drink is 14.5% and I'm a lightweight so it gets me a little buzzed and makes working a boring office job bearable since I can't smoke pot anymore.

>> No.14679598

>>14660063
Best one was like 7usd, don't remember the name/dont care, at that price all are good, even the cheap wine I use to cook is good (gato negro)
t.chileanfag

>> No.14679999

>>14660066
2 or 3 cartons? Isn't one carton like 3 liters?

>> No.14680177

>>14679241
There's a reasonable amount of very generic Pouilly Fume and Sancerre out there. Make sure you're getting a good bottle.

>> No.14680312

>live in wine country in california
>go-to is a 2014 red from monte volpe
>girlfriend works at a winery and we get their syrah and blend all the time
comfy

>> No.14680883

>>14679999
He just uses milk cartons as glassware.

>> No.14681951

>>14676807
Going to serve shrimp etouffee tomorrow
According to this chart a lighter red would work, which sounds pretty interesting. Any recommendations?

>> No.14681965

>>14681951
How much are you looking to spend?

>> No.14682045

>>14681965
I would say the equivalent of < 20 usd per bottle

>> No.14682077

>>14682045
Grenache can present some great value in its lighter iterations. Lighter wines from the Southern Rhone and McLaren Vale can be great with richer shrimp dishes.

That being said, young winemakers are making a lot of light reds from all kinds of varietals. Go into a decent wine store and ask for light reds and you should be set. Don't be afraid to go to a place that looks nice on the outside, they should still have some <$20 options.

Also putting your bottle in the fridge for 20-30 minutes before serving should make it fresher and better suited for seafood.

>> No.14682092
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14682092

>>14682077
Nice thanks I'll have a look for something like that. Looking for a store should be no issue for me since we have a government monopoly on booze.

>> No.14682103

>>14682092
Are the employees at the monopoly knowledgeable at all?

>> No.14682283

>>14667060
I'm French and I never saw a bottle of Dubonnet, I only know the name because the ads were memed like 50 years ago