/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.3923609]

heirloom vegetables!

do they actually taste better with better nutrition? or is this more hippy shit talk?

GO!!

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3923621]

>heirloom vegetables!

please explain....

[Anonymous No.3923624]

I thought the only gimmick to them is that they're rare as shit.

I suppose the taste could be a bit different. I mean, people go crazy over Japanese cows, so I can totally see them doing the same with funky-looking vegetables.

[Anonymous No.3923630]

There are literally thousands of varieties of each type of produce out there, and yet we only get to see the few varieties the mega-farmers always grow. The appeal of heirlooms to me is that they make us think more about the food on our plate, inspire people to grow their own food, broadening their experience through gardening and eating. Also, heirlooms have subtle differences in taste from the "normal" varieties.

There are cases where certain nutrients and compounds are in higher concentrations in heirloom varieties (I mean, look at the differences in color), but aside from that, there is no intrinsic difference in nutritional value. Anyone who says so is probably on the GMO hatewagon.

[Anonymous No.3923636]

>>3923621
well heirloom vegetables are different from store bought because they are mostly cultivated from regular gardeners over a long period of time. this leads to varieties that are much different than commercial varieties. they don't ship well, have very low disease resistance, and they don't look as pretty.

however, they are supposedly better tasting. but i fear that this is just another hook from the organic hippy movement.

pic is what a heirloom tomato looks like

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3923643]

>>3923636
I have no idea if that is an actual thing, or some strange marketing jargon...

Vegetables are not grown in uniform colours and shapes, but they are selected uniformly for the shops.

Are you saying that some people claim that the left-over ones with the knobbly bits and wonky shapes are somehow better? They're not going to be any better or worse. I am not sure that I haven't misunderstood this whole thing tbh.

[Anonymous No.3923644]

The only one I have experience in is heirloom tomatoes. And yes, they do taste so, so, so much better. I was at a friends house and we had some salad, I commented on how delicious the tomato was, and asked where she got it from. Apparently her sister grows them, and they were heirloom. Once I have some space I plan on getting seeds from her and growing some.

[Anonymous No.3923646]

>>3923636
>however, they are supposedly better tasting.

not necessarily better. but a much wider range of flavour, acidity, texture, color, juiciness, skin density, etc. But the fact that
>they don't ship well, have very low disease resistance
entails that you have to grow your own if you don't want to pay an absolute fortune to get a good handle on what they have to offer.

>they don't look as pretty
is completely wrong, the colours are astonishing and gorgeous.

[Anonymous No.3923650]

>>3923643
you are a retard, sorry. heirloom tomatoes are distinct varieties. you will get a packet of seeds labeled "Black Prince" and all those tomatoes will come out bruise purple, with slightly lower acidity than the tomatoes you're used to, with a much softer and more friable skin. Heirloom anything are not just cripple versions of normal vegetables.

[op No.3923652]

>>3923630
op here, i love gmo foods and technology. unlike the general population, im not fear influenced by those who are scared of science. even though, yeah yeah more research is needed to make sure its safe. but to completely dismiss this because of their own personal ideologies, its worst than being ignorant, its being a fucking dickhole.

having said that rant, although its cool if it does having more nutrition, most importantly is does it have a better taste? hard to answer i know, but on average and as a general do heirlooms make better culinary ingredients than regular store bought?

i hear it does but i fear that they are just sold on this organic bandwagon

[Anonymous No.3923657]

>>3923652
>most importantly is does it have a better taste? hard to answer i know, but on average and as a general do heirlooms make better culinary ingredients than regular store bought?

Yes. This is well proven in tomatoes actually. Turns out that the 'sweet gene' in tomatoes, was bred out of commercially available ones.

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3923660]

>>3923650
Don't be a wanker I already said that I have not heard of an heirloom fruit, and was looking for info. From what I gathered so far, these are just out-of-favour strains and/or the mis-shapen ones that don't make supermarket shelves? Seems like you cannot judge the tastiness of the fruit or veg just going by that.

[op No.3923663]

>>3923646
>they don't look as pretty
is completely wrong, the colours are astonishing and gorgeous.

your right i take that back. some are very nice but some are just terrible looking. for instance in the tomatoes, i just went to the farmers market and i saw a bunch that was not round but look like it had tumors. and it also had alot of cracking on the skin. but yes i do know that i am just use to the picture perfect tomatoes in the store.

but honestly taste is my true decider

[Anonymous No.3923665]

>>3923621
Heirloom Veggies = Veggies that have been untouched by Eugenic tinkery. I.E. an Heirloom Tomato is the same strain of Tomato that existed 100+ years ago.

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3923670]

>>3923657
>Turns out that the 'sweet gene' in tomatoes, was bred out of commercially available ones.

Possibly, though that seems counter-intuitive. I was listening to Jay Rainer's radio show where he explained that the enzyme which provides the sweetness in tomatoes is permanently destroyed if the fruit drops below about 5 degrees C. He advises you should never refrigerate them. Maybe the shipping has to include some amount of refrigeration though, just to preserve them until they reach the shops.

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3923673]

>>3923665
If that is what it is then it is kind of sad that they have to be labelled with a name, rather than just presume all fruit and veg is as you describe.

[Anonymous No.3923674]

>>3923670
>counter-intuitive

Why? People bred for appearance (color, size) instead of flavor.

[op No.3923675]

>>3923660
hello i'll try to help. i know where you are coming from and yeah i know there is a percentage of the crop that is unsellable in the sense that they arn't uniform with the rest of the crop. sure but they are part of a commercial varieties in which they were bred to be disease resistant, high yielding, and the ability to ship well.

Heirloom on the other hand, are very old strains that have been passed down from generation to generation that usually predates the commercial ones. it is said these were always bred for taste and never for things like shipping well. hence why there is a big difference between heirlooms and commercial ones. sorry if it still doesn't make sense in that case google is your friend

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3923676]

>>3923674
Well, because if you are sensible you stop buying something if it tastes crap...

[None !OPIATE9fy. No.3923677]

I thought heirloom meant they produce viable seeds

[Anonymous No.3923679]

Heirlooms are better tasting in my opinion, but its more about knowing where they come from then anything, alot of stores label as heirlooms when they are not. the best way to get heirlooms is to garden them yourself

>http://www.seedsavers.org/Items.aspx?hierId=8

[Anonymous No.3923682]

>>3923677
true heirlooms are older varieties

[op No.3923692]

>>3923665
not true, people wil always change these varieties over time and originally almost all heirlooms were hybrids but they manage to stabilize the strain over time.

the big difference is that commercial varieties have to keep profit into mind, as a business, so yield and marketability is a priority.

home gardeners on the other hand, dont have to worry about shipping them or their uniform appearance. so they bred for taste.

in short, they are both eugenics just different goals

[Anonymous No.3923693]

>>3923692
I think he meant GMO's and Monsanto

[op No.3923695]

>>3923677
that too. thats also a benefit. however, so do hybrids. they have seeds just that the f2 generation may or may not be like their parents. but in heirlooms, there is more consistency. but still this is sexual reproduction and there will always be some small differences

[Anonymous No.3923709]

Heirlooms aren't restricted to just Veggies. There's Heirloom Apples, Oranges, Strawberries...pretty much any sort of fruit from a plant, there's an heirloom variety.

[Anonymous No.3923710]

>>3923660
There are black apples, those are heirloom fruit.

You know how there is a massively large variety of species on the planet? But we only eat like 2-3 different kinds of potato? There are actually hundreds of other species of potato with all kinds of flavors, colors, strengths, and weaknesses.

Basically any veg or fruit that hasn't been selectively breed for sale in a market is an heirloom.

[Anonymous No.3923720]

>>3923710
are pygmies or aino heirloom humans? More importantly DO THEY TASTE BETTER? Congolese militias say yes

[op No.3923727]

>>3923720
oh man i really miss homo erectus. they tasted so much better but these days pygmies will have to do

[Anonymous No.3923729]

>>3923710
its like watermelons, there are only like two market varities bred for size, there are hundred of types though, some even have white, yellow or orange flesh, my favorite is Stone Mountain but its hard to find, and industrial agriculture makes them harder to find

[Anonymous No.3923731]

>>3923660
Let me put it this way.

The fruits and veg you buy at your local grocer have been selectively bred and crossbred for specific characteristics which makes them easy to ship and easy to mass-produce, often at the cost of unique flavors or other aspects that have been bred out either on purpose or as a byproduct of making an easily produced, cheap and "efficient" crop.

Heirloom Fruits and Veg are the opposite side of the coin. Often they don't ship well or don't produce large amounts of crop, but they make up for it in their flavor. They're cultivars which can date back as early as the 1800s, which have been more or less unchanged since then. An Heirloom Tomato might taste far sweeter, or the flesh softer, or far juicier than the standard fare at your local grocer. An Heirloom Carrot might taste like it's been sugar-glazed through and through, yet still have a very satisfying crunch and even a little bit of spice at the end of it.

Honestly it's up to personal preference, really. But the main difference is that it's mass-produced and uniform grocer crops versus unique and varying heirloom crops.

[Anonymous No.3923732]

>>3923729
its like the orangeglo, its super sweet almost tropical

[Anonymous No.3923735]

Heirlooms are just fruits and veg that are a strain unchanged from say, 1890.

For instance you can get a Gala Apple strain from 1965 which tastes just like a Gala should, but is sweeter and lacks the tang that a store-bought Gala would have.

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3923737]

>The fruits and veg you buy at your local grocer have been selectively bred and crossbred for specific characteristics which makes them easy to ship and easy to mass-produce, often at the cost of unique flavors or other aspects that have been bred out either on purpose or as a byproduct of making an easily produced, cheap and "efficient" crop.

I think this is why I found the idea odd. My nearest shop is Waitrose so I buy from there mostly, and they actually do stock what would be called "heirloom fruits", so the distinction seemed an unnecessary one to me. Fair play though, lots of people have explained now. Easy rule is that - regardless of the strain or species - big supermarkets generally stock the cheapest, lowest-end goods anyway.

[Anonymous No.3923742]

>>3923737
The problem with Heirlooms is that most marketed as such are not, unless its a farmers market or rural vegetable store it is more likely a normal vegetable, there are few it not any laws or regulations defining what an heirloom vege is. the only real way to make sure it is truly one is to garden it yourself,

[Anonymous No.3923751]

>>3923737

Standard stuff isn't necessarily "lowest end", there are a lot of reasons why certain strains of veggies are so common. Examples:
-high yield
-fast growth
-visually appealing product
-fewer/reduced seeds
-hardiness of the plant (cold tolerance, pest resistance, etc.)
-As mentioned before, ability to transport without damage

Taste is certainly a factor, it's just not the only factor involved.

[Anonymous No.3923752]

>peoples faces when they realize big produce farms dont use fruits and vegetable breeds based on flavour and nutrition, but instead use breeds based on how they look and how long they will last in a store, which is why store bought vegetables and fruits are so fucking flavourless compared to home grown

[Anonymous No.3923764]

I think the big draw on Heirloom Vegetables is the number of interesting flavors and varieties, like take a look through these seeds, its mind-blowing to discover the number of tomato varieties there are;

http://sustainableseedco.com/Heirloom-Vegetable-Seeds/

[Spelli !xgvg1REm/U No.3923771]

Biology student with a knack for hobby gardening here..

Heirloom vegetables are just old or rare varieties that don't sell well in today's market, be it because of looks, transportability or other factors.

Some heirloom vegetables can taste pretty different from what you can get from big producers.
Others have resistances against diseases or parasites that modern high-yield breeds struggle with, and are sometimes back-bred into those strains for that purpose. (for example, high-yield tomato strains are very, very weak to many forms of fungus)
Other than that, I know of heirlooms that have vastly different growth requirements (rice that can grow with very little water), or have shorter times until harvest, but will yield less.

It all depends on WHAT the people who bred those varieties bred them FOR.

[Spelli !xgvg1REm/U No.3923778]

>>3923752
this is mostly true. Breeds are chosen for maximum yield, aesthetics and transportability.
Additionally, the plants are sometimes treated with plant hormones that maximize water uptake, increasing produce weight, but watering down the taste. After all, they get paid per weight.

[op No.3923780]

hmmm... maybe i asked the wrong question.

ok, which heirlooms should i try?!!??!

what vegs and what fruits would u think are the best heirlooms that is even better than the stuff i get at the supermarket?

[Anonymous No.3923787]

>>3923780
Pumpkin, Musquee de Provence

its great for baking and pie

[Spelli !xgvg1REm/U No.3923793]

>>3923780
Ask your local farmers, gardening club etc.
Heirloom attributes vary greatly by region, since they are the product of isolated gene-pools with human selection over a long period of time.

The botanic garden at my uni has a couple interesting tomato breeds, one even has _thorns_. They say they got the seeds from some backwater village in bavaria during WW2. Yes, I'm from germany.

[Anonymous No.3923794]

>>3923780
For tomatoes try; San Marzano, Black Krim and the Oxheart

[Anonymous No.3923809]

>>3923780
try Bloody Butcher Corn, it makes great corn flour or meal, but is flavorful picked young for corn on the cob

[op No.3923839]

how about fruits? i rarely hear anything about heirloom fruits. although i absolutley hate apple. any berries?

[Anonymous No.3923844]

>>3923839
wild berries are the best berries

[Anonymous No.3923845]

This years experimenting crops are pretty much finished for the year, but I will advise against growing the crystal apple / crystal lemon variety of cucumber I got very few fruits and most of them had very (unbearably) bitter sections.

[Anonymous No.3923848]

>>3923609
>do they actually taste better
depends on the fucking strain
>with better nutrition?
depends on the fucking strain
>or is this more hippy shit talk
mostly

A lot of these heirloom plants taste disgusting and there is a reason why many of these were lost over the time.

[Anonymous No.3923850]

>>3923848
>A lot of these heirloom plants taste disgusting and there is a reason why many of these were lost over the time.
Nope.

[Anonymous No.3923855]

>>3923850
>nope

You realise that every shitte breed ever existed can be considered heirloom? There are loads of them that just taste bad and can't be used in proper dishes.

It's a shame that we got so little variety but not every of these strains have to survive.

I'm out of this thread. No reasoning with stupid people

[Anonymous No.3923859]

>>3923839
Strawberry, Alpine Yellow Wonder

[Anonymous No.3923861]

>>3923855
>You realise that every shitte breed ever existed can be considered heirloom? There are loads of them that just taste bad and can't be used in proper dishes.
No, because people would cease breeding them and they would not perpetuate.

[Anonymous No.3923863]

>>3923859
Black Mission Fig

[Anonymous No.3923864]

>>3923844
especially these. they are so sweet

[Anonymous No.3923865]

>>3923861
>No, because people would cease breeding them and they would not perpetuate.

Which is exactly what happened. People stopped breeding them and they're only know starting to be "rediscovered" because they survived on some random guarden or someone was able to germinate some old ass seeds that sat in a drawer since forever.

not even the guy you replied too but that was just fucking stupid

[Anonymous No.3923867]

>>3923855

>I'm out of this thread. No reasoning with stupid people

Dont let the door hit your ass on the way out. It seems to already be in enough pain.

[Anonymous No.3923868]

>>3923864
yew is poison, don't eat them.

[Anonymous No.3923869]

>>3923864
Yes, the aril is edible and actually tastes decent.

[Anonymous No.3923870]

>>3923865
>full retard

Yes, the current handful of common varieties selected by large conglomerates are the apex of quality.

[Anonymous No.3923872]

Grow Malmsey Grapes, great for wine

[op No.3923939]

i wonder if its worth it to get heirloom garlic

[Anonymous No.3923941]

>>3923939
whats it hurt to try?

[Anonymous No.3923974]

>>3923735
>Heirlooms are just fruits and veg that are a strain unchanged from say, 1890.
There is no way to stop strains from evolving, its not that heirlooms haven't changed, its that they haven't been artificially selected to produce better looking crops for mass markets

[Anonymous No.3923978]

>>3923752
No one has ever breed a plant for nutrition (until some very recent GMO stuff) there is absolutely no reason to assume that heirlooms would have any better or worse nutrition than more common strains

[Anonymous No.3923988]

The funny thing is we could get even more delicious variety with better taste and nutrition with genetic modification but you liberal luddites will never allow that to happen

[Anonymous No.3924028]

>>3923939
op you should just get a bunch of random heirloom seeds and see how they do in your garden... it's like pulling a slot machine but much tastier

[Anonymous No.3924356]

>>3923988
The food in that day was not modified for appearance on the shelf and it was during an era when food had rich taste because it wasn't mass produced. I'm not saying your point is lost on me, but your blanket generalities and uninformed opinion make it easy to dismiss you.

[Anonymous No.3924389]

>>3923988

Mother nature provides just fine. We don't need to fuck with the genetic structure beyond selective breeding.

[ILikePlantsMoreThanPeople No.3924394]

>>3923609
I think, from experience, the whole heirloom-thing is being massively overhyped. Of course they taste better than hydroponically grown storebought tomatoes, bred for looks and ripened with ethylene gas. But if you compare them to 'modern' strains bred for homegrowing, there is no difference in quality worth mentioning. They will taste different, but not necessarily better or worse.

So imho the credit for better taste should go to 'homegrowing' strains in general, not heirlooms in particular.

[Anonymous No.3924396]

>>3923988
I agree with the CONCEPT of genetic manipulation in foods but do you really think copyrighting vegetables is a good idea? Copyrighting monsanto vegetables that put pesticides IN the foods?

The execution is just plain wrong in this era.

[Anonymous No.3924399]

I haven't had many heirloom varieties but those I have had I definitely enjoyed.

Heirloom apples were downright orgasmic. I questioned the sanity of people who spend all their time breeding new apples when heirlooms are so damn perfect already. After I was done with the fucking spirit quest tasting this apple gave me. I swear, I saw the ends of space.

Nutrition? Bitches don't you know that nutrition is ambiguous as fuck? Something with higher caloric content could be called more nutritious, in which case a bag of cheetos is going to be more "nutritious" than an organic head of broccoli.
"Healthier" isn't a thing either. At long as it isn't downright chemical, health is about proportion and ratio. If you eat the right amount of everything, you're healthy. In diet anyway, your heart won't get healthier until you exercise. And it only took us a couple hundred years as a country to release an official government study that suggests this. Go America!

[Anonymous No.3924401]

>>3924356
>it was during an era when food had rich taste because it wasn't mass produced
bullshit

mass production does not simply make something lose taste

[Anonymous No.3924402]

>>3924389
>We don't need to fuck with the genetic structure beyond selective breeding.
We don't need to (yet), but it could sure as hell yield some interesting and worthwhile results

[RootCellar4tehwin No.3924407]

>>3923864
>>3923868
>>3923869
That is true the red flesh is edible.. just DO NOT eat the seed or the leaves. They contain Taxine alkaloids which stop the heart form depolarizing. Even just one or two seeds is enough to send you into ventricular tachycardia.. and then cardiac arrest.

[op No.3924876]

>>3924389
nah i like gmo foods. i think people are just scared of science. after all heirlooms were generally created from hybrids to begin with. even if not, they have gone through selective breeding. which is still gene modification but at a primitive level.

gmo is basically selective breeding but at a super hyper level. doing something we have never been able to do before, we can advance so much faster in horticultural science. an analogy we can make is communication. first from person to person to satellite communication. doing the basic function but at a much higher level.

[op No.3924882]

>>3924876
also sure it needs to be supervised and completely researched in the sense that its safe for consumption, but we have to keep an open mind. not to be so closed mind just because of personal ideology. this who god concept and messing with nature is invalid to start with. to whose god? does god exist? how about modern technology? no where in the bible does it talk about computers or electronics. also science is unbiased and is based on the results. so if the data shows that if it has a relatively low impact on the environment and can feed everyone well, it should be implemented. and vise versa if the data shows otherwise.

but to throw it out just because people are afraid of science and their own personal beliefs, isn't that a bit biased?

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3924884]

>>3924876
>i think people are just scared of science.

That is actually the strawman that is presented by the media. Not saying you did that intentionally, but it is like the media saying "reports show organic food is no healthier".

It is not about the healthiness of the food. It is about industrial ethics. GMO is widely opposed because it makes crops and livestock proprietary goods. You have to pay the "copyright" owners of the tech to rear cows, plant seeds etc. It's really crooked stuff.

The quality of goods doesn't even come into it when it is a business model that is basically saying its end-game is to hold copyright ownership over nature.

[Anonymous No.3924885]

>>3924401
Not directly.

However, it does happen because farmers choose to plant hardy and high-yield strains of veggies rather than flavorful ones. The wholesalers who buy from the farmers don't care about the taste of the produce, but they do care about meeting shipping deadlines and maximizing yield. The farmer who grows your tomatoes for sale to major supermarket chains doesn't care much about the taste but is very concerned about being able to deliver the right amount of them on time. He's going to choose to plant the fast-growing pest-resistant strains, not the super tasty ones.

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3924886]

>>3924884
Just to clarify: the science of GMO may or may not be beneficial. But the business practices used by GMO manufacturers to extract money from people using their "designs" is beyond sinister and destructive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082559/The-GM-genocide-Thousands-Indian-farmers-committing-
suicide-using-genetically-modified-crops.html

[Anonymous No.3924891]

>>3924884

I get what you're saying, but you're colluding two separate issues. The problems you are describing are issues of what can be patented or copyrighted. That's where the problem lies, not whether or not the cow breed came about due to traditional cross-breeding methods or GMO. Place the blame accurately on the copyright laws, not the genetic techniques.

>>The quality of goods doesn't even come into it ....

Sure it does. You can choose whatever you want to buy. For example, I don't like McDonald's, so I don't eat there. Likewise if you don't like boring mass-produced supermarket tomatoes, don't buy them! There are always alternatives. Grow your own, buy heirloom produce, shop at your local farmer's market, etc, etc.

[op No.3924892]

>>3924396
while i agree with you in that it shouldn't be copyrighted, we also have to think about how this was created. it takes years and years of research which also cost a lot of money. then the scientist themselves and the investors. they have this wonderful idea in mind to improve our agriculture so people don't have to starve. but they have to go through many years of education which is not only a sacrifice in their time, but a huge amount of money just for education.

so in the end, they need to be compensated for their sacrifice. its only fair and i believe over time the copyrighting of plants will go down in cost or completely removed.

if there was no incentive, they they would never created these technologies that could potentially benefit the entire human civilization. the same applies to the argument of money from pharmaceutical companies. they create these medications that do save lives or at the very least improve their quality of life. genrally speaking.

sorry about the rant, i just wish more people would keep an open mind about science. anyway back to the topic. going to the farmers market to try some heirlooms. i really only care about taste. if they taste better, then i'm all for it

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3924899]

>>3924891
although i addressed most of that separation of science versus business practice in my follow-up post
>>3924886
I want to say that
>Sure it does. You can choose whatever you want to buy.
is the short term view. In the link I posted it shows how a single lartge company can essentially seize a geographic area in a foreign sovereign nation via its GMO technology. The existing farmers who may have been in the area for generations have been bankrupted by failing crops and evicted from their land. After a few generations of this happening to a revolving door cast of farmers, the businesses can step in and manage the land themselves, as nobody has rightful claim over it any more.

It's not a healthy business model and there is not really any "tolerable" level to allow this type of behaviour to exist. It's better to oppose it from the outset than hope the problem will cure itself.

[op No.3924913]

>>3924884
you are correct that i may be generalizing and yes there people who know more about the science and make a proper decision on going against gmo.

however, as general as it might be, its true. a lot of people don't understand the science behind much of this industry. and at least the people i have spoken to, i live in nyc, oppose it mostly on the who fear factor of fear of playing god and fear of the unknown. i must admit i shouldn't consider them as the voice of the movement. but i do think its mostly that people don't understand the science. a chef i spoke to thought there is less nutrition in food now because they use fertilizers. they just don't undersand it.

>>3924886
please see >>3924892.
also i agree. it may or may not be better. due to the logistics and the many other variations they have to deal with

thanks for debating this on a logical level instead of just the who frankinfood propaganda thing

>>3924886

[op No.3924917]

btw has anyone tried these guys? pineberries. supposedly they are heirloom and i really wonder about the taste

[Anonymous No.3924939]

>>3924917

Looks delicious. Haven't tasted it though, but now I have to go on a quest to find these in my city.

[Anonymous No.3924947]

>>3923839
Heirloom Fruit Trees;

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/

[Anonymous No.3925023]

whoa cool look at these

[Anonymous No.3925024]

>>3925023

[Anonymous No.3925025]

>>3925024

[Anonymous No.3925026]

>>3925025

[Anonymous No.3925029]

>>3925026

[Anonymous No.3925030]

>>3925029

[Anonymous No.3925031]

>>3925030

[Anonymous No.3925034]

>>3923609
I'm quick replying here, so I haven't read the thread.

Heurloom just means they are not hybrids and their seeds will produce the same plant that can produce the same fruit/vegetable. Hybrids' seeds only produce plants that are similar to one of the hybrids' parent plants and it won't be like the hybrid itself.

You can develop new kinds of heirlooms over time, which many people have. Being an heirloom or hybrid has so specific bearing on flavor/taste or nutrition since that is dependent entirely on a massive amount of factors. For instance you can have an heirloom that is terrible but when crossed to make a hybrid the hybrid is awesome or you can have an heirloom that is awesome and when you cross it the hybrid is terrible and any range in between.

So, if anyone at all is generalizing and trying to make a stand on a single position they are most like trolling, ignorant, or stupid. Hopefully, they are merely ignorant which is easily cured with a bit of knowledge.

[Anonymous No.3925313]

True Hubbard has appeared in American gardens and been served on American tables since at least the 1780's, it makes great pies and soups

[Anonymous No.3925351]

>>3923609

They really do taste better. Just go try some heirloom tomatoes. The crazier they look the better they tend to taste. Some of them have this really crazy chocolate flavor going on which for some reason mixes well with the normal tomato flavors.

[Anonymous No.3925378]

>>3925351
try black krim

[Anonymous No.3926877]

Trail of tears beans, the Cherokee grew them on on the trail of tears. their good foe bakeing

[Anonymous No.3928828]

>>3924917
I have! Besides being ghostly white, they are basically just small strawberries that are SUPER SWEET.

Like, dang. Seriously. Really sweet.

[Anonymous No.3928831]

Most companies selling these are shady as fuck.

[Anonymous No.3928834]

>>3924892
The real issue I was trying to bring up is how the most prevalent GMO foods right now are all owned by Monsanto which, even if you ignore the company's high profile conflicts right now, is performing modifications that don't serve the consumer but rather the company.

Making foods produce pesticides is ultimately intended to save the company costs and increase profits, not to end world hunger with more resistant crop yields. More resistant crops which certain studies suggest might be harmful to consumers in some ways. I'll spare you the conspiracy theories though, just know that it's a difficult thing to quantify the risks and acceptable levels of.

I am completely in support of genetically modified foods as an idea but in execution there are many factors to address. How do you regulate companies that produce GMOs and is it even possible to ensure that there will be a variety of companies and interests making them? What sort of traits do you modify for and what are the origins? We know a lot about genetics and protein expression these days but it is still difficult or impossible for geneticists to fabricate entirely original pathways to expression for many organisms and as such they essentially cut and paste sequences from other organisms, which has met with semi regular success. On the other hand, many ventures in genetic engineering and biomolecular engineering meet with unexpected complications with unwanted products or effects due to the intricate interrelation between aspects of genetics. It's all relatively new waters both scientifically and legally.
The fact that GMOs have made it to market already despite this is worrisome to me. Long term tests would alleviate some of that concern, but I'm still worried about monopolization of the related industries and the twisting of GMOs away from consumer interests and towards corporate interests.

[Anonymous No.3928835]

>>3928831
Shadier than Dole and Monsanto?

[Anonymous No.3928839]

>>3928835

About the same.

[Anonymous No.3928840]

>>3928834
>More resistant crops which certain studies suggest might be harmful to consumers in some ways. I'll spare you the conspiracy theories though, just know that it's a difficult thing to quantify the risks and acceptable levels of.

That's not wholly accurate.

GMO crops require monocropping, which is the most fragile technique of agriculture. It lets parasites thrive and mutate and eventually a devastated harvest becomes a statistical certainty.

Crop diversity is key to safe stable farming method. GMO is designed to make crops fragile and to require extra chemical products, sold also by Monsanto.

It cannot be overstated enough that these GMO companies are a racket. The quality and safety of the food is a red herring. The attempts to monopolise farming is the real scandal.

[Anonymous No.3928845]

>>3923643
There has always been different strains of crops man, it was more prevalent when farming wasn't totally industrialized.

The vegetables you buy at the store have been genetically selected for disease resistance and yield, not taste.

Of course some of the info out there is just people trying to cash in on a trend, but it's a no brainer that garden vegetables are going to be better than mass produced ones.

Everyone that eats tomatos knows this.

[Anonymous No.3928852]

Id say the best case for Heirlooms is crop diversity, take for example the Lumper Potato, also known as the Famine Potato. In Ireland this waxy spud had become almost the sole cultivator, it does not taste that good and is rather watery, but it delivers very high yields, it is also less resistant to diseases. When the blight hit is was devastating, not only because of the total crop failure, but lack of other species which could resist the blight to fall back on. take today's industrially agriculture, and as one anon pointed out purposeful weakening of crops for corporate interests and you have a recipe for disaster

[Anonymous No.3928863]

>>3928852

The heirloom label has nothing to do with corporate interest?

[῏ᵩᵟŁἐἅϝἓὅἣᵟᵩ῏ !XndHGnsd42 No.3928864]

>>3928863
...no monsanto can't touch it

[Anonymous No.3928865]

>>3928863
No, it can be just as corrupt, the point I was making though is that modern agriculture often reduces the number of varieties available leaving much more room for crop failures and mishaps. as for what you were saying the best solution would be more clear guidelines as to what constitutes an Heirloom plant

[Anonymous No.3928867]

>>3928864

Then why are various corporations that are not Monsanto capitalizing on it?

[Anonymous No.3928872]

>>3928865

That's very magnanimous of you.

[Anonymous No.3928875]

>>3928865
So I guess the conclusion to be drawn is that if you want organic, non gmo food, your best option is still to grow it for yourself

[Anonymous No.3928882]

>>3928875
or go to a farm shop

[῏ᵩᵟŁἐἅϝἓὅἣᵟᵩ῏ !XndHGnsd42 No.3928904]

>>3928867
nothing wrong with selling seeds its wrong and immoral to patent the genes and sue anyone you fucking please for shits and giggles why having a 90% of the words seed stock

also name one

[Anonymous No.3929079]

ITT: buzzwords

[Anonymous No.3929113]

you can bet the vegetables Monsanto executives eat are unaltered

[Anonymous No.3929131]

>>3929113
You can bet that you can't prove either case.

[Anonymous No.3929136]

>>3928904
This. Designing a plant to kill other people's crops so they have to buy seeds ffrom you isn't just "immoral", it's outright evil.

[Anonymous No.3929141]

>>3929136
I've not heard of such a plant. plx2link?

[Anonymous No.3929146]

>>3929141
Genetic restriction technology. Turns out my info was a little old, Monsanto has promised not to use it, and bought D&PL (who had planned on implementation).

Just google Terminator Seeds.

[Anonymous No.3929149]

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Company#Controversies_and_legal_actions_outside_the_US
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Company#Legal_issues
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology

if there was any justice the executives of monsanto would be skinned alive

[Anonymous No.3930042]

bump

[Anonymous No.3930074]

>>3926877
not sure if good idea but thinking of growing eggplant. don't know many dishes but my ex made some good shit b4 with it

[Anonymous No.3930076]

>>3930074
forgot pic

[Anonymous No.3930155]

>>3930076
ah yes, the beautiful testicular plant

[Anonymous No.3930162]

>>3923673
they dont have to be labled I imagine, but why wouldnt you label a product you intend to charge out the ass for? Something has to tell the consumer there's something about that product that's worth that much money.

Anyway I dont know what all the fuss is about. Just fucking try one, even if youre poor and wont be able to ever have any ever again, if all you want to know is if they taste better, it's not going to break your bank to find out. Tomatos aren't cars people.

[Anonymous No.3930852]

bump

[Anonymous No.3930940]

>>3926877
Sure, the Cherokee were on a forced march and planted and harvested a novel cultivar of beans along the way.

[FrogSoup !SouplTBU2A No.3930957]

>>3930162
>why wouldnt you label a product you intend to charge out the ass for?

Well now you see, that was my original suspicion. The grocery store I have near me has all kinds of tomatoes. I just find it a little tragic that commercially-altered tomatoes are now considered "normal tomatoes", and anything that deviates from them is considered "tomatoes plus", as it were.

I think it might be worse in the States than Europe though, as they have next to no consumer protection against GMO. That all has to be prominently labelled over here.

[Anonymous No.3930977]

>>3923737
I think you need to consider the status of Waitrose. It's a supermarket that is aimed at the middle class and so has a larger range of 'foodie' items, such as heirloom fruits and free range meat. The majority of the populace shop at supermarkets like Asda or Sainsbury's that don't have those sorts of goods.

[Anonymous No.3930982]

>>3930940
the trail of tears took years, they planted them in between pogroms

[Anonymous No.3930989]

>>3923809
>not growing Country Gentleman

Poorfag

[Anonymous No.3930994]

>>3930957
it is worse, the only real way to get organic or 'heirloom' vegetables or fruits here is really to garden them yourself. quality and safety take second place to cost effectivity every time

[Anonymous No.3932345]

>>3923809
Honest question, why is it black?

[Anonymous No.3932357]

>>3932345

anthocyanin is the pigment responsible for the colour, that just apears to have a lot of it.

[Anonymous No.3932578]

try growing watermelon, I like the russian ones

[Anonymous No.3932981]

oh man where do i get cheap heirloom seeds??!?!?!

[Anonymous No.3933036]

>>3932981
http://www.seedsavers.org/Items.aspx?hierId=8
http://www.burpee.com/

even non heirloom seeds are good, try different varieties of common vegetables

[Anonymous No.3933214]

>>3932578
>>3925378
>>3924917
>>3923787
>>3923732
>>3923679

HHHHHNNNNNNNNGGGGG...
My Petite Rennes De Gris are almost ripe... just another week...

[Anonymous No.3933241]

>>3933214
enjoy your melon you lucky son of a bitch

[Anonymous No.3933253]

>>3933241
and my kickass heirloom tomatoes

[Anonymous No.3934563]

>>3933253
harvesting so late in the season?
greenhouse?

[Anonymous No.3935251]

>>3923609
just tried some aunt ruby tomato. it was sweet. much more than I had expected from a tomato. Very weird. I didn't think it would be sweet. not sure how it will do for cooking. maybe the more acid varieties would do better for cooking but this one was amazing for eating it fresh. great with sandwiches

[Anonymous No.3935262]

>>3935251
try slicing it for BLT's or Chicken Salad

[Anonymous No.3935268]

>>3935251
Make Tomato jam or jelly

[Anonymous No.3935271]

>>3935251
Tea sandwiches!

[Anonymous No.3935507]

>>3935271
whats a tea sanwich?

[Anonymous No.3935525]

>>3935251

didn't you read the thread? heirloom vegetables don't taste any different, that's just a hippy con job to keep you from supporting real farmers who grow real RED tomatoes.

[Anonymous No.3935571]

> thread a whole fucking week old

You go, /ck/, you go.

[Anonymous No.3935577]

>>3935251
You could make some ketchup.
They add a shitload of sugar to ketchup so a naturally sweeter tomato could cut down on that.

[Anonymous No.3936333]

>>3935525
> accuses others of not reading thread
No they can taste different, but what constitutes a heirloom is debatable

[Anonymous No.3936335]

>>3935507
Generally a one/two-ingredient sandwich to be enjoyed while drinking tea. Cucumber sandwiches, egg and cress, tomato and cream cheese.

[Anonymous No.3936349]

>>3936335
I like cumber with a little salt and pepper between two slices of buttered bread

[Anonymous No.3936361]

I rarely visit /ck/, but I just wanted to thank you guys for this thread. I totally know what I'm going to do when it gets to gardening season next year.

[Anonymous No.3936364]

So if heirlooms are seeds that one guy has grown and saved for decades, would like marijuana be heirloom in most cases since alot of it is homegrown?

[Anonymous No.3936394]

The heirloom boom has actually threatened a lot of old cultivars thanks to hobbyists not knowing what they're doing and growers not really caring. It makes buying something specific a crapshoot because the genetics aren't kept pure.

[Anonymous No.3936400]

>>3923652
But the problem is, to truly test everything using a scientific method would take generations to complete. I personally don't give a fuck, but I can see the concern.

[Anonymous No.3936416]

>>3923652
http://www.inquisitr.com/337297/monsanto-gmo-corn-causes-tumors-early-death-french-scientists-say/

[Anonymous No.3936444]

>>3936416
You do know that study was discredited out the ass pretty much the moment it was published, right?

[Anonymous No.3936971]

>>3936394
all the more reason we need better guidelines as to what constitutes an heirloom

[Anonymous No.3936982]

>>3923636

those are just cherokee purple tomatoes..

[Anonymous No.3937208]

>>3936444
>government officials paid to swifly discredit a study in order to protect their own products

>OUT DA ASS

It is up to us to see through their bullshit or blindly follow it.

[Anonymous No.3937214]

>>3937208
>believing a study simply because you want it to be true

>criticize someone else for doing the exact same thing

You. Are. Stupid.

[Anonymous No.3937215]

>>3936444
if GMOs were safe and fine, they wouldnt be desperately fighting the labeling of them.

no study is credible when monsanto runs the fda...

[Anonymous No.3937253]

>>3937214
I didn't criticize him. I also didn't reveal which side I believe in. It's just that when studies are immediately hushed up by the people who sell products of the opposite side, it looks bad. Like how countless studies on food are done funded by the same people who sell the particular product. Never can be taken at face value due to this.

You. Are. Lazy.

[Anonymous No.3937257]

>>3936361
grats bruh
seeing purple shit growing in your garden that tastes better out of hand than an eggplant is a trip

[Anonymous No.3937266]

>>3937215

Not at all. By defeating the labeling they are defeating paranoia.

A great example is MSG. There have been countless double-blind studies conducted and not one of them has found a link between MSG and any kind of health problem. Yet, despite the facts many people are still convinced that MSG is evil and out to get them. The same is true with GMOs. Just because a paranoid hypochondriac is afraid of GMOs doesn't mean they really are dangerous.

[Anonymous No.3937334]

>that feel when apartment
I fucking love home-grown fruits and vegetables. A couple years ago my grandparents gave me some tomatoes they grew in their back yard. I was apprehensive because I'm not a huge fan of tomatoes by themselves, but I ended up eating all of these tomatoes with just a little salt and pepper and sometimes olive oil and fresh basil from my windowsill. So fucking good.

[Anonymous No.3937337]

>>3937334
get some plant pots, if stoners can grow indoors then so can you

[heartsonfire !!fPX2cAyysZV No.3937357]

>>3937334
Mmm, that sounds lovely. :)

My friend's mom homegrows and I honestly can't tell the difference between store bought and heirloom when it comes to vegetables, with the exception of tomatoes. They are so sweet and juicy. I like to slice them and drizzle a little bit of honey on top (a Korean way of eating fresh tomatoes).

When I lived in New York, I had several friends who grew tomatoes, peppers, etc. indoors. You could always give container gardening a try. Also, depending on what city you're in, you might be able to locate a community plot.

[Anonymous No.3937361]

>>3937357
>You could always give container gardening a try
If I can find the space for it I just might. Home grown stuff in general is usually just really good.

[Anonymous No.3937390]

>>3935571
successful thread is successful

[heartsonfire !!fPX2cAyysZV No.3937416]

>>3937361
I feel quite guilty because I've been out of the city (and my tiny apartment) for months now and I haven't done any of the cool homegrow stuff I told myself I'd do when I had a backyard again. I'm not sure where to start... All this freedom is overwhelming.

You should totally post when you get started! Maybe lusting after other people's produce will motivate me.

[Anonymous No.3937480]

>>3937215
Would you like your products to have labels which discredit it? Yeah...