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/ck/ - Food & Cooking

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6712039 No.6712039 [Reply] [Original]

Is cooking an art?

>> No.6712044

*fiddles nervously with seatbelt socket*

>> No.6712048

>>6712039
That's plating, not cooking. It's like writing code, it's both art and science and fun when you get paid for it.

>> No.6712051

>>6712048

>That's plating, not cooking.

what

>> No.6712056
File: 20 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6712056

is mayonaise an art?

>> No.6712058

>>6712039

it's art for your mouth, bitch..

it's also artistic in the visual sense since all of the rules you abide by when painting or drawing also apply to plating food.

>> No.6712060

>>6712039
hah, no

its a craft. an admirable craft, like statecraft, or masonry, but not really an art

>> No.6712065

>>6712051
They're different, plating is what that is with stupid little dots all over the plate, people get hired for that alone, then there's cooking, that which is on the plate. People pay for both, they want "the experience."

>> No.6712076

>>6712039
Personally I woudln't go near a place that did that unless someone else was paying for it or unless I was trying to impress some chick and she'd know that it was full of shit just as I would.

>> No.6712084

>>6712076
>trying to impress some chick
>she'd know that it was full of shit just as I would
So what's the point?

>> No.6712086

>>6712065

>people get hired for that alone

no they don't

why would you even try to speak on this subject if you don't know anything about it

presentation is important for a number of reasons that aren't entirely visual, and it usually goes hand in hand with the cooking. you can't just point at a picture of food and say 'that's plating, not cooking'. someone cooked it.

>> No.6712093

>>6712084
The point is getting laid or just having fun, get out of your mums basement and have a go, life is fun unless you're a daeish, then the USA will sure that it's no fun.

>> No.6712101

>>6712086
Yeah they do, if you look on the credits on food channel for instance and you'll see "plating expert" credited, if you go into some jap restraurant they have plastic food in the windows, that's not real ya know, who does that and what do you think that their titles are?

>> No.6712114

>>6712101

do you honestly think a restaurant operates in the same way that a tv show does?

the people cooking your food also plate your food and come up with the platings. this is objective fact. there aren't "plating experts" in kitchens.

>> No.6712126

>>6712101

are you kidding me

restaurants don't hire 'plating experts' and what you think japanese plastic food has to do with anything i do not know

the head chef supervises the final plating of dishes, a cook is in charge of each one, and everyone involved with it is busy cooking all fucking day

what is the fucking point of running your mouth about stuff you've never experienced dude seriously

>> No.6712138

>>6712114

What makes you think all restaurants operate the same way?

Sure, your local mom-n-pop joint doesn't have a plating person. But many other restaurants do.

Some chains do it because it's more efficient to have one person assembling plates rather than tie up the line cooks with both plating and running their station. A good friend of mine was a line cook at Texas Roadhouse--far from an upscale place, but they were packed every night. They had a guy whose whole job was to assemble plates. He'd get the food from the individual line cooks & assemble the plates. He did no cooking, only plating & application of sauces, etc.

Some high end restaurants do it for expediency. If you saw any of the programs on El Bulli you'd see that most of the labor involved was plating rater than the actual cooking. Watch some of the segments where Anthony Bourdain visited and you'll see more cooks attending to plating than you'd see actually working a station.

>> No.6712139

>>6712138

no they don't. this does not exist. restaurants are tightly staffed operations in which everyone does everything. you are hilariously off the mark.

>> No.6712140

>>6712126
>what you think japanese plastic food has to do with anything i do not know

It's a job which is obviously not cooking yet applies purely to presentation. In other words, the guy who made that ramen model was employed by the restaurant for 100% presentation purposes.

>> No.6712146

>>6712138

what the fuck are you talking about? the cooks attending to the plating are also the cooks who cook the food..

plating is half the game when you're cooking in a high end restaurant. you are so, so wrong, anon. the labor is divided up efficiently and there's no reason to have somebody who isn't cooking that just plates food. doesn't make any fucking sense.

>> No.6712166

>>6712140

a really oddly specific job that involves the creation of something that is objectively not food. hardly a powerful demonstration of your point that there are people employed solely to plate food in restaurants.

>> No.6712168

>>6712146
>the cooks attending to the plating are also the cooks who cook the food..

Watch the damn program again if you missed it. The people on one side of the kitchen are cooking. The people on the other side of the kitchen are plating. There are different people doing each job.

>>ave somebody who isn't cooking that just plates food. doesn't make any fucking sense.

At most restaurants? I agree with you completely. But that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. I just described two of them.

So yeah, I agree that at most places there are no employees devoted to plating. But that doesn't speak for ALL restaurants. There certainly are some (a minority, sure) where there is such a job in the kitchen.

>> No.6712179

>>6712168

you really don't understand the division of labor in high end kitchens.. the person you're talking about is generally the executive chef (the guy who made up all the food being cooked) and he delegates his orders to the sous chef, who divides those orders up amongst the grunts.

the exec chef usually expos or works the window and dictates the pace at which the food comes out. i've worked in a few really nice kitchens and please believe me when i tell you that it makes zero sense for somebody on sautee to make a sauce and then just throw it at the person who is working the window/expo.

the cut of meat is done? cool, just throw it up in the window. the veg is done? just dump it in the window..

>> No.6712212

>>6712168

that you keep telling us to watch a tv show is telling. don't base your entire worldview on tv.

>> No.6712385

>>6712168
Have you ever worked in a restaurant?

No offense, but I do...

>> No.6712407

>>6712179
>you really don't understand the division of labor in high end kitchens

I do. I'm not saying that all high end kitchens do that. I'm not saying it's common or typical. What I am saying is that for some (albeit small) number, it does indeed exist.

>>6712212
I'm not basing a worldview on TV. I am providing an example which you can easily look up.

You see, your claim is that platers don't exist. therefore if I find a single example of a plater then I have proved you wrong.

Yes, I know the chef usually Expos. Yes, I know that the concept of a plater is unusual. I get that. But at SOME places they do indeed exist.

My friend at Texas Roadhouse explained it thus: they were in a college town and were packed every night. A thousand covers a day. It was more expedient for them to have a person assemble plates than it was to have the line cooks do it.

Is that typical of all restaurants? Nope. I never said it was. But it does disprove your stubborn insistence that the idea of a dedicated plating employee doesn't exist.

>> No.6712423

>>6712407

good thing the thread was about texas roadhouse, because you sure schooled us..

they do the same shit at red lobster. the OP image implies that we aren't talking about these kinds of establishments.

>> No.6712524

>>6712407

>You see, your claim is that platers don't exist.

hahaha no.

>Is that typical of all restaurants? Nope. I never said it was.

you were making a general point that plating and cooking were separate disciplines, implying that 'platers' and 'cooks' is a common distinction - and it isn't.

>> No.6712659

>>6712039
art is anything done well

so yes

>> No.6712700

>>6712659
Yeah, no.
You're confusing art with craftsmanship.

Cooking is a fantastic thing every human should experience, but it is not art. The problem lies in representation; a portrait of a person can deliver an experience of viewing that person, it can express something else about their character, shared context, and other creative, emotional context. Cooking can be emotional, even "creative" in the more clever/problem solving sense of the word - but a good steak cannot represent anything other than what it is, a good steak.

Without representation and expressibility the argument for food as art has no legs to stand on.

>> No.6712710

>>6712700

>but a good steak cannot represent anything other than what it is, a good steak.

patently untrue.

>> No.6712730
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6712730

>>6712700

>> No.6712771

>>6712039

cooking is art.

according to beuyss, everything positive done in a social context is art.

>>6712060

if you think masonry isn't art then you're ignorant and lack general education.

do you know where the word art originated from?

"skill as a result of learning or practice," (the oldest french "dictionary")

"from Latin artem (nominative ars) "work of art; practical skill; a business, craft,""

really embarrassing post.

>>6712101

>food channel
>the same as an artisan restaurant

average /ck/ user

>> No.6712777

>>6712700

>there is one definition of art
>there is a definition of art
>one can distinguish between art and craftsmanship
>food cannot be expressive of emotions
>food cannot be representative of something bigger

I think we're done here, that should be enough arrows for now.

>> No.6712781

>>6712771
>etymology posting

are you going to tell me that everything in the oxford dictionary is true next?

>beuys

never mind

>> No.6712792

>>6712700
You come across as a faggit from a fellini film. Fact is there's skill and there's art. Craftsmanship is in there too, but really included in skill.

Sometimes on rare occasions one can combine the two without being a complete faggit. It's very rare but it does happen withot presumptuous faggits getting involved. Like programming, it's both skill, you have to know how to do a thing in the first place but also when it's done over a large picture for instance how to make it all work together, that's art and no fucking scumbag indian h1b or paki will ever be able to do that.

Do you honestly think that some indian or paki could have come up with a blackbird?

>> No.6712793

>>6712771
Whaaa whaaa, someone fucked with your image of a shit restraurant in NYC. It's your money, have some fun fagboi.

>> No.6712796

>>6712039
I've never thought about this before, so thanks OP.

My opinion is that craft and art almost exist on a continuum.
So putting chicken nuggets in the oven is the blunt end of craft, akin to chopping wood for the fire,dutiful more than anything else. Following a recipe to make a lovely dish is like making a wooden table; there is skill involved, and the product may well be a beautiful thing, but it is ultimately more craft than art. Creating a gourmet dish that challenges the perceptions of the diner is more like a piece of fine art, a creative act that focuses on the end experience rather than the job at hand.

Probably shite.

>> No.6712798
File: 30 KB, 450x600, MASONRY IS NOT ART.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6712798

>>6712781

are you retarded by any chance? the point I was trying to make is that "art" originated from "craft", it is completely arbitrary to distinguish between both

no matter how traditional your definition of art is, if you don't think michelangelo's david is art then what is your opinion even worth? and how is this not masonry?

>> No.6712802

>>6712798
>definitions of words can't change

oh right, youre the kind of person that calls others "retarded" unironically. never mind

>> No.6712804

>>6712793

i'm not op if you're implying that and i don't think the op image is in any way impressive or artistic. it still is art, though. bad art is art just like how good art is art.


>Whaaa whaaa

nice asspain, try to contain yourself next time.

>> No.6712809

>>6712802

why did you ignore the latter part of my post? your statement was embarrassingly wrong and you know it.

is marcel breuer not an artist, but rather a carpenter?

is michelangelo not an artist, but rather a mason?

this is getting embarrassing, just admit your "definition" of art is completely arbitrary. if not, lay it out. i'd love to see it.

>> No.6712812
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6712812

>>6712804
You sound like some NYC village or frisco art fags that throw shit on a canvas and because they call it art and it's paid for by the federal or state or city government then it must be art.

Hoorah to you fagboi.

Btw... I didn't imply that you're a faggit, I said that you're a fucking faggit. I bet that you think art is a cum arc over your little fag buddy's chest?

>> No.6712820

>>6712812

not an artist, not from america, don't even live in a big city.

why are you so angry at this strawman that you carefully built up? did some skinny "artist" fuck your bitch? get over it, >faggit

>> No.6712823

>>6712039
cuisine is an art
pastry is a science

>> No.6712827

>>6712820
I'm not angry, I'm having some fun on a Friday night. Except for Brits, you euros don't understand banter and shit.

I will say though I bet you consider andy warhol an artist, fact is, my cousins used to live near him in nyc and every moring when they went to school and I've seen it too, he was covorting with young asian boys. So worship him, and throwing shit on a silkscreen doesn't make you an artist. My mom was one, she got paid for it too.

>> No.6712840

>>6712827

>I will say though I bet you consider andy warhol an artist

of course I do. terrible art is art, good art is art, great art is art. whether art is good or bad is entirely subjective. a five year old drawing a horse that looks like a squid is art. doesn't mean it belongs in a museum. if you exclude bad art in your definition of art it is a failed definition. if you cannot grasp why then you're beyond help.

>My mom was one, she got paid for it too.

that's neat for her, i respect that- kind of sad she'd go on to have ignorant, mouth breathing offspring, though.

>can't handle the banter

>> No.6712855

>>6712840
I don't consider anything that he did to be worthwhile, obviosly some nyc village types considered it to be art or he wouldn't have been getting millions for what he did which is a lot less than what people in my family did related to food and employing a whole hell of a lot of others without covorting with little asian boys.

Nice shot on my mom, want one on you?
On her deathbed she said she was proud, I wasn't always there, what son is perfect, I certainly wasn't but I did what I did, then once she was dead fucked off. I didn't have enough time to buy her the nice house that I thought of.

And it's true, you can't handle the banter because you're a fucking faggit.

>> No.6712865

>>6712855

>I don't consider anything that he did to be worthwhile

why are you dodging this hard?

>Nice shot on my mom, want one on you?

the shot was on you you gigantic faggot, can you read?

>On her deathbed she said she was proud, I wasn't always there, what son is perfect, I certainly wasn't but I did what I did, then once she was dead fucked off. I didn't have enough time to buy her the nice house that I thought of.

thanks for telling me my life story, sorry i hurt your feelings

why are you so fucking sensitive?

>> No.6713028

>>6712039
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culinary_art