/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>4191056
>>4191042


You could try making your own jerky. It's a little less expensive- but it's certainly better than paying 7 or 8 bucks for 3 oz of beef jerky.

I have an expense sheet back at my house if you're interested in making jerky at your home. Just know that you will lose (honestly) 50-66% of the weight depending on how long you dehydrate it.

Just e-mail me if you want the recipe or the price margins (butcher.op@gmail.com).

Any questions today /ck/? I've got a few hours before I need to be anywhere.

>>4189206
A "real Philly cheesesteak" is a cheesesteak made using thinly sliced Delmonico steak meat. That's what gives it the savory, delicious flavor and the high price tag.

>>4189197
Yeah, sorry about the cooked vs raw bit there... I don't know what I was thinking aside from space saving!

They sell individual steaks to the general public, and they sell sub primals to stores if you get them through a wholesaler- which makes it nicer for resale and much better in terms of profit margins. I'm not sure why they don't show their regular steaks and the marbling, but I assure you- it's quite nice even on their lower level steaks.

We also have a full-service reach in counter for the meat workers to sell product from. We have about 50 feet (give or take) of cooled storage with top and bottom shelves to sell products from. We also have about 15 feet of iced storage area for poultry. The fronts of the case are glass so the customers can individually pick their own items. We have most of what we have across also for sale from our full-service reach in case. We sell grinds, pork, beef (Angus in the case rather than Select), ground turkey, pre-made (raw) meals such as stuffed chicken breasts, stuffed pork chops, filled round steaks, and many other items. Then we have the poultry in its own case where we have whole birds and parts. It's actually a really, really nice setup. We have butcher paper to wrap in (when requested) and plastic bags with twisties for typical orders. We also have plastic containers if they get offal or something that is juicy. In addition, if they get something that would fall apart in a bag, we wrap them on trays like the product we'd put across for the self-service section.

The darkness of the beef on the inside of the rounds is what happens when the meat is too tightly packed (not getting oxygen); the "bloom" is lost early. That's why I use the "flat" method that I do. The beef generally takes longer to start losing its bloom and it shows freshness longer. The bloom also disappears when the beef gets older and isn't as fresh cut anymore... the meat industry is really like taking an art class, isn't it?

>>4189168

If I had to tell someone what they should learn to do first to learn about how bone structures, meat, and tissue work together, I would say you should learn to part out a whole frying chicken. You'll see how joints work, how bones tie together, and how to find where the meat comes apart. You'll also learn how to go around bones (if you want) to cut between joints and separate ball-and-socket types of joints (removing legs from the bird). Also, whole frying chickens are cheap as dirt (typically) and make many, many different dinners and meals possible.

If you were going to do this, I would say get a boning or fillet knife. Probably a curved and semi-flexible... also, you could get a cimeter if that's your thing- but I think they're too big. You don't need to crack any bones to take apart a whole fryer, so a larger knife or cleaver would be unnecessary. After that, you can move up and toward different things in the cutting world.

If you're looking for beef... You could get a baron of beef/ponderosa hip if you're able to find one. You would have to separate that into the different rounds though, and that would be a bit more difficult for the first time cutter... Just my .02 on your question.

If I missed something, let me know and I'll get back to you on it when I get up tomorrow.

>>4189197
I'll get you in the next post

>>4189108
>>4189077

Sorry, I said it wrong in this post. They don't sell cooked meats to the public; they sell steaks in *portions* to be cooked for a small family to the public. They wouldn't sell any full piece items to the public because then they wouldn't be making nearly as much profit.

Please disregard my 'cooked' comment; and my "raw" comment meant "sub primal". I was trying to save space and ended up saying incorrect information. Sorry about that anon.

>>4189108
Then again, it might not be cooked meat when you get it from Creekstone as a general consumer, but in portions to be cooked... The manager may have explained it to me incorrectly- he's an airhead sometimes

>>4189108
>>4189077


Continuing from the last post (sorry it got stuck together-- 2000 character limit is annoying)...

The other method we use is a flat-laying method. It entails keeping a steady stream of meat coming out of the grinder head and laying it straight across the tray in segments about 1/2 an inch shorter than the pan is (width, not length) and dropping it off. We typically would do 2 layers of this, and it ends up lasting longer and looking very beautiful to the customers. Typically if I grind, I use this method rather than the rounds. It seems that the meat loses its bloom faster (the fresh red color) when it's in rounds than when it's laid out flat.

Our store does label fat content, and is a serious issue when idiots try to grind. They don't know what pieces make up the Chuck, Round, and Extra Lean pieces, so we need to put the bins in order and label them- or else people will mess it up and sell crap beef for 93%... it's a pain in the ass. Most people wouldn't even be able to pick through scraps and figure it out if they're a counter worker. They're really not very well trained in the knowledge of meat either.

The OCD stuff does get annoying, but it's how they like it and how the customers are used to seeing it; customers react poorly to change typically.

We don't usually put pure fat into the grinds either unless we're making bird balls (fat with a small amount of meat, then rolled in bird seed) during winter months... I've had orders for 60/40 beef though- and in that situation, you'll need to put pure fat into the grinder (unless you've got some sloppy cutting butchers).

>>4189077
They only sell cooked meat to the public. You'd have to pull their meats in through a wholesaler if you were interested in using their products (I think it's American Foods that sells it). I have a pricing catalog from them if you'd like to know more about it. You'd have to send your request to my e-mail account though so I can e-mail you the pages. I'd rather not make them absolute public knowledge since it's not typically sold to the public (the raw meat, that is). You can e-mail Butcher.op@gmail.com with any questions (if threads are dead) or if you're just interested in the charts.
About our "pre packaged section"-- I worded it poorly. The store I work in is a full-service grocery store with counters for the Deli, Meat Department, Seafood, and for the Bakery. We offer excellent fresh and daily made products for the customers. Obviously some of them have bagged goods that come in, and others are absolutely on-the-day cuts and products.
The "Pre packaged" sections we sell from in my department are meats that came in cryo-vacs and we cut up on the spot and then package to go across for easier consumer consumption. Typically we make 1-1.25lb ground beef packages to go across and packs of 4 patties (80/20, 85/15, and 93/7 respectively). We then put the stir fry, beef cubes, and tender tips directly beside them. Then we have meatloaf mix, lamb patties and veal patties on the top shelf, and many other products that we put in value packs (larger but cheaper) and regular portions (regular costs). Everything we sell is either in the original cryo-vac like it came to us, or fresh cut and packed by us to go across every day.
We use a triple grind system for beefs if no tubes are involved (we have trouble keeping up for the demand of beef since grinds sell more than we can cut in a day)- grind 2x, tray on the 3rd. We use the rounds method as well, but since many of the grinders are counter workers with no knowledge of beef, we're not as specific about the weight.

>>4188966
>>4189009

Following up from the last post...

You say the butchers laugh at the way you put the beef into the tray for your rolls... how deep is the tray? I might have another option for you to help ease yourself out of having 'mis-shapen rolls'... we use 3 or 4 different grinding techniques for the beef depending on who is in charge of grinding. Two of the ways are sure sellers, and two of them are hit or miss.

>>4188966

I wish we only carried all-natural beef. Granted, the companies we buy from aren't known for being abusive or buying bad cattle... but we don't pay a premium for 'all natural' labeled beefs.

We do have Harvestland chicken that is all organic, vegetarian feed raised, no hormones added, no steroids... no anything bad, essentially it's everything except for free range birds. Though I assume they live a very good life. The chicken breasts are individually wrapped in the packaging so you can chose how many you want to eat at a time. It's pretty sweet. The taste is golden too.

In regards to the grind specifics... think about it this way.

Using ground chuck and some trim for 80/20 will really give you about 72-38 to 75-25. Back in the day, "Ground Chuck" rating was achieved by using merely Ground Chuck- and it is associated with being 80/20 because of the natural fat in the Chuck Roll. If you add extra, the color will still be good if it's a fresh Chuck, but you're going to delve a little further into the fattier region.

That being said... Think of 90/10 or 93/7 (for my area) -- Ground Sirloin is a delicious meat. But why? It's lean- so it should be less flavorous than other beefs. Fortunately for the Ground Sirloin, it has something going for it: The Sirloin beef is a great piece of beef. It has good flavorful characteristics to it; and therefore will taste good ground. Now think of your other option for the lean grind... The Whole Eye Round. Based on the structure of the muscle and the abuse it has taken (more than the Sirloin), the meat should be not as good tasting as the Sirloin would be when it is ground. The color of an Eye Round is also different from the Sirloin. This will show when the meat is ground.

Depending on the types of meat and the age of meat that you grind, it will effect the coloration of the beef. The fat can also change the color depending on the grind cycle you use (2/3 passes or more while traying it). Grinding is a real art.

>>4188927

We get Prime in on *rare* occasions. I've seen it 3 times. One time we had Bottom Round roasts and Bottom Round Steaks on sale (high markup anyway) and we couldn't pull in any pieces that were select or choice. This forced us to look into Angus. Angus was sold out for the next 2 days. We had to get Prime in. They looked amazing. The only other time I saw Prime was when we had briskets on sale. The promoter wrote down the price wrong, so it was only a few cents more than choice grade... so we got them at the "advertised price". It was pretty sweet. A lot of happy customers that week.

Back to your other question though... We offer Select as regular beef, and Angus as Choice beef. We can, however, get Choice beef if that isn't Angus. There is a price difference, but not much of one. Customers don't know that though, and pay high difference between the two meats.

We avoid getting Choice in the ready-serve case because they get really confused at why one Choice meat costs more than the other... Therefore, we just say "Regular beef and Angus" or "Select and Choice".

We use IBP, Swift, Creekstone (great shit- also Angus), and a few other brands on occasion. I've seen some things come from Creekstone that were marked in their lowest grade that looked like it could've been Choice or Choice+... But they also sell 3 grades of higher graded beef. They have "Master Chef Prime" grade if you've got balls of steel and a lot of money. You need to buy it by the case and the prices would kill most mortal men. But if it's *that* much better than the low tier that they sell, it just might be worth it.

We think that IBP is cheap Angus too... but it's the best profit rate as well. Most people in the area have no idea what a good steak is- so it sells with great speed.

>>4188892

Since we're not allowed to have hanging beefs/whole animals in the store where I work, we're not given the option in the books. I could take some time to find out if the manager has any connections, but I'm sure a whole lamb would be balls expensive in my local area to be shipped from CA... Even chops are excessively expensive here lamb trimming (non natural) to order into our store are 5.75/lb. The lamb rack is 6.29/lb ordered in. Anything with "Natural" or "Organic" on it is exceedingly expensive to the note that we don't like to pull it in unless it's a special order.

tl;dr: We don't get full carcasses in at the store I work at, so the pricing manual doesn't have a slot for that. Sorry anon.

>>4188821
>>4188812

For instance: Flank Steaks, Whole Bottom Flat (bottom round and rump roast), Denuded Inside Round (top round steak, top round roast, london broil), Fillet Mignon, etc. I have pricing for all of the cuts- all in 3 grades: Angus, Choice, and Select gradings as well.

I have deli meats by different providers listed at their loaf price per pound, seafood prices per bushel, per pound, etc. and many other prices. If you were looking for anything meat related, I probably have a price for it for you.

>>4188812
I have the books that have what it costs per pound to get meats in. Just pieces- like you'd see in a grocery store. I could find out side prices too if you're interested. The book is over 150 pages long.

Ever wonder how much you're paying vrs how much it costs the store to get in products? Want to know when you're paying too much? I can help you guys with that too. I've got the pricing book beside me right now (from Jan 13th for East Coast beefs) if you'd like to ask me any questions.

It contains numbers for beef, pork, veal, lamb, Deli Meats, Seafood, and some other items as well (Pic related).

Shoot me a message and The Butcher will check it out for you.

Just remember- overhead is a huge factor behind the pricing of beefs and so is employment, waste, and cutting costs. For these reasons, the prices in the book may seem excessively low, but in reality, the margins aren't quite as bad as they seem (for fresh cut meats... deli is a different story).

>>4188787

For 150, it's not in too bad of shape ;). The steel is still in tact, the handle is at least still together (could be rotten by now), and the blade could still be worked and trued again to be perfectly usable in a store. I'd recommend using stones if you are planning on sharpening it... but you could use an auto sharpener or a grinder if you needed to (depending on how bad the edge is, or how much time you have before you'd like to use it again). Getting a job as a butcher (at least in my area) is a rarity. If you're interested, I'm sure you could make it work though :).

Ever wonder how much you're paying vrs how much it costs the store to get in products? What to know when you're paying too much? I can help you guys with that too. I've got the pricing book beside me right now (from Jan 13th for East Coast beefs) if you'd like to ask me any questions.

It contains numbers for beef, pork, veal, lamb, Deli Meats, Seafood, and some other items as well (Pic related).

Shoot me a message and The Butcher will check it out for you.

Just remember- overhead is a huge factor behind the pricing of beefs and so is employment, waste, and cutting costs. For these reasons, the prices in the book may seem excessively low, but in reality, the margins aren't quite as bad as they seem (for fresh cut meats... deli is a different story).

>>4188727

That's pretty cool man. Just goes to show you that a properly maintained blade can last a really, really long time. This is part of why picking a good quality constructed blade is as important as it is.

Thanks for sharing your piece with us.

>>4188223

Yeah... Rosewood handles can be expensive- and they're also less sanitary. I actually agree with the ideals of the plastic handle, but I'm spoiled at the store since I only need to use one hand. I place the knife away from wet and dirty surfaces when I'm not using it, and only one hand touches the meat. If I had to use both hands, I'd suggest the plastic handled ones anyway.

I don't have any variety of butcher knife specifically picked out for my use, but perhaps someday I will decide that I need more than the Cimeter, the boning, and the fillet knives. I can get just about everything done with just those 3 knives; so I'll pick up a few others ones when I can.

It's actually a good thing to be scared (or at least mindful/understanding) of the saw. Once you're too comfortable, that's when the problems start. One of our newer butchers gave himself a nasty little cut- if he wasn't wearing his wedding band, he might've lost his finger, but he managed to save himself with only minor injuries because the ring caught before his finger did.

It makes them laugh because they can probably remember when they were leery of the blade themselves... so don't feel too bad my friend. I'm pretty comfortable with the saw- but I'm also relatively slow and mindful while using it.

You'll get to pick the cuts sometime, don't worry. Just make sure you pass all your trials before you try to pick out your own style. Once you've got all the hurdles out of the way, I'm sure they'll let you use what's comfortable for you (though you may find one of their methods to be the best).

>>4187741

In terms of using the bandsaw... I was trained to use it for every bone-in cut (strip loins, bone-in dels, strips, etc) unless it was a special preparation or there was a special need from the piece. At that point, you prep it in the special way, and then you would cut everything else regular.

I can see the importance of cutting everything individually before using the bandsaw to cut it (saves the characteristic of the face of the beef and many other considerations), but I was taught to use the saw as often as possible because of the quick-fire rate of sales and the importance of stocking the shelves. If the shelves are even slightly empty at my store, the GM gets wind of it and he yells at us to pile them high- even if we know they won't sell as quickly as he thinks they will. It's a shame, but the saw is a much-needed item in our quick-moving lifestyle. If we had a little more time, we'd probably separate the meats and cut on the saw; but that's not how I was trained.

You can do it whichever way you see fit. Think of your time constrains and the quality of beef your customers demand before deciding on a technique for your own use.

>>4187741
I'm surprised that someone else has that chart :-p It's a bit aged, I'm afraid. It's got a ton of pertinent information on it though, so I suppose that's good.

The butchers I know are OCD, and I am OCD to an extent; though I understand that being too OCD costs the business too much money and allow some things to go through as they must.

I use Victorinox Forschner blades specifically (cheap, efficient, and keep a pretty good edge)-- but there are some better knives out there. Typically I have a 10 inch Cimeter and a 6 inch boning knife/6 inch fillet knife. Both curved, semi-flexible blades. I always use wooden handles because I have highly sensitive hands. The wood conforms to my hands need of warmth and I only use one gloved hand while cutting (part of OCDs perhaps, I'm really not sure why I learned that way). If I'm butchering a full animal, it's both hands on deck and plastic handled knives; but the same arrangement. Tips are tapered down instead of being wide due to my sharpening technique.

I wish we sold skirt steak more here- people ask for it and we never have it. It's only 8.99/lb here I think... but we could charge whatever we wanted and I'm sure it would sell. We can actually order in skirt steaks if we wanted prepackaged to go out into the reach in pre-wrapped storage area.

I was taught (no one else does it now... the new butchers don't do shit compared to the old guys... Especially since the last of the original butchers has left) to cut *every* steak at a slight angle to eliminate the waste at the t-bone end. If you fucked it up badly enough, you would sacrifice a small end piece either way- so learning the angle wasn't troublesome or terrible. If you got it right though, the store made an extra couple of bucks and you'd learn for personal experience (if you ever opened a shop) how to save a short loin from destruction.
(continued in next post)

>>4186092

I'm not 100% sure on that situation. I'm not at a steak house, nor do I claim to have connections to any... but I know we use an older hollymatic or similar make tenderizer for our shop- but there's certainly better tenderizers out there. I was taught the old method of using a hammer with a lightly spiked side and a flat side. That always worked well in the olden days- but tenderizers have come a long way since primitive methods such as that.

Sorry I don't have more information for you anon. Was there anything else I could help you with?

>>4186038
Pounding out steaks/tenderizing steaks can be done to just about any steak, in honesty.

Some steaks take it better while maintaining their shape than others though, and some steaks don't really need to be beaten to be tender and delicious.

Assuming you're talking about cheaper steaks that tenderizing/beating would help a bit... I would suggest the following: Bottom Round Steaks, Eye Round Steaks, and shoulder steaks.

Considering that these steaks come from hard worked sections of the animal, it is natural that they will be less tender than other steaks. For cost's sake, however, they are relatively cheap (especially when on sale). If you marinade them for a day or so, or even put some vinegar on them or just pound them out... any of these will help these steaks to be more tasty, and more tender.

However, something that should be said is that seasoning and proper cooking are almost as important as the cut of meat you buy... so if you bought good mead, and good seasonings, there's a decent chance that you wouldn't have needed to pound the steaks out- but they still yielded a good result for you in this instance.

The tl;dr of this would be "any steak can be tenderized, marinated, or pounded to help break down the meat" and "some steaks desire the tenderizing more than others" Just remember to cook them medium or so (less if you'd like) and that will also help to assure juicy meat and good texture.

Marbling on the original piece is also incredibly important as is the grade of the beef that you bought in the first place... If you have more questions about particular pieces, please let me know and I'll delve into more detail for you.