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/diy/ - Do It Yourself


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File: 21 KB, 300x214, framing osb rot apartments.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1555716 No.1555716 [Reply] [Original]

Dionizian: People who work with their hands dont think.
Apolonian: People who think never worked with their hands.

This is the result when those 2 type of idiots work together.

Just how influential is desintegration of society on construction?

>> No.1555775

Tell me OP, what's your opinion on the United States of America? I know you're dying to tell us.

>> No.1555850

This is what happens when you have a bunch of retarded superficial amerimutts with money to spend. The jew manipulates these shallow retards every step of the way.

>> No.1555851

>>1555775
Pretends to love tiddies and guns and trucks and americanism but shits on it at every chance because mcmansions.

>> No.1555857

>>1555716
Americans have money and are concerned with things like ROI and maximizing appreciation.

Your clay blocks are also a complete bullshit material to work with because you still have to pour reinforced concrete beams and columns which means you might as well build out of CMU, brick, or solid concrete anyways. Also, any structure, regardless of what it’s made of will benefit immensely from an HVAC system. There is absolutely no reason not to have one and arguing against it is like arguing against a hot water heater or refrigerator.

>> No.1555924

>>1555716
If you’re Croatian , you can tell us. How did the turmoil over ther in the 90’s change construction? I recall one post of yours that praised the clay brick for allowing a house to remain good after a tank shell.

>> No.1555929

>>1555924
>I recall one post of yours that praised the clay brick for allowing a house to remain good after a tank shell.
Only the best bricks made in Montenegro can do this.

>> No.1555963

almost as obsessed as abatap, may god rest his soul

>> No.1555969

>>1555924
that is cool as fuck. i reken even tho my house is a typical canadian dwelling that is wood framed and brick clad, wouldnt collapse if a tank shell punched right thru.

HE would shrek both im sure

>> No.1556021

What is wrong with OSB panels?

>> No.1556038

>>1555716
Kept getting run off of /pol/ so had to come shit up another board? Just fucking kys already

>> No.1556043

>>1556021
No matter what you do to it treatment wise when it gets damp it will soak up water, rot and fall to mush like cardboard.
It is apparently difficult enough to correctly protect it from getting damp in the first place that using it in outer skins of building walls just isn't worth the risk or hassle.
Interior, floors, fuck even a roof because the guy doing roofs usually knows how to keep the water out properly.
Timber on the other hand may rot and decay but it doesn't immediately lose all of its structure when it gets splashed.
Brick/concrete soaks up water unfazed, couldn't care less about being wet.

>> No.1556159

>>1556043
brick and concrete crack when moisture inside them freezes and/or the water corrodes metal reinforcements, the rusting metal also expanding and cracking the shit.

roman concrete is more durable to water but no one is going to use it for anything that isn't an expensive architect's pet project or a self-build thing

>> No.1556161
File: 32 KB, 685x723, 8f4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1556161

>>1555857
i moved from america to a country with literally no usage of HVAC to speak of. its hot as balls here, too.

you get an air conditioner unit in your room, and it gets fuckin cold. do you understand how inefficient that HVAC shit can be? electric bills in florida... fuck that stupid shit. america is full of awful inefficient shit that nobody needs

>> No.1556284
File: 356 KB, 683x1024, vukovar water tower3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1556284

>Dionizian: People who work with their hands dont think.
>Apolonian: People who think never worked with their hands.

what I tried ranting about is the loss of craftsmanship, people who worked with their hands used to be considered gentlemen and were respected, only few tradies today are worthy of respect.

>>1555775
>Tell me OP, what's your opinion on the United States of America? I know you're dying to tell us.

I like Americans honestly.

>>1555929
>>1555969
>>1555924
>How did the turmoil over ther in the 90’s change construction?

It didnt, but my point was that reinforced concrete houses can not only survive a tornado but also tank shells. Pic rel a famous water tower that was heavily bombed in the 90s and they werent able to take it down with a TANK, now its being repaiered, so yeah, go RC beams.

>>1555857
>which means you might as well build out of CMU, brick, or solid concrete anyways.

NO NO NO
If you did concrete all the way house would be too cold.
RC beams are there for loading, red brick is for isolation and light loading. HVAC is a meme to fix badly built houses. Its the same principle as with Tudor houses but with different materials.

>> No.1556294
File: 620 KB, 2400x1656, house alpine style chalet swiss new build burnt wood.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1556294

>Dionizian: People who work with their hands dont think.
>Apolonian: People who think never worked with their hands.

most todays architects are total idiots as well - they dont even think structurally about materials they use, "but hey I like the colour" so they use that shitty concrete and too much glass and when the house becomes too cold you just add heating or add insulation. Expenses of execution are another thing since yuppies will buy EVERYTHING so idiot architects just design whatever inefficient building one >likes.

>>1555857
>CMU

CMU is strong but very porous and bad as an isolator (way worse than red terra brick which isnt a superb isolator either)

>>1556043
>No matter what you do to it treatment wise when it gets damp it will soak up water, rot and fall to mush like cardboard.

Every adhesive built behaves the same, for instance hiking boots that have only glued non stiched soles get opened with time, similar to those seamed seals hiking jackets.

>>1555929
>>1555969
>>1555924
also regarding war, even non RC brick made houses (then you had mostly solid brick, not aerated terras) provided major protection from big bullets, you can still see those houses with major war damage, but walls were never penetrated by bullets (even some aerated brick walls werent penetrated). Dubrovnik, that has a thick stone wall around the city was bombed not by TANKS but by WAR SHIP and it didnt collapse so take note in case of rahowa, mcmansions arent good protection.

Log cabin also would provide good protection since wood is very strong (unlike OSB that isnt wood), not to mention a stone house. But against a tank shell RC is your best choice.

>> No.1556358
File: 121 KB, 449x654, 5piKWmY.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1556358

>>1556284
>people who worked with their hands used to be considered gentlemen and were respected, only few tradies today are worthy of respect.

That only was a thing in the mid-late 20th century, and around the late 70s into the 80s they lost respect in favor of the "designers" who hired them and rarely did manual work themselves.

Pic related, it's from the late 1600s, england. Written by Joseph Moxon who was the first tradesman to be elected into the Royal Society, and even then he had issue with being taken seriously. Craftsmen have almost ALWAYS been scoffed at by whatever aristocracies exist. Most mythologies have craftsmen as divine figures - Jesus, Hephaestus, Lu Ban - but either the figure or the aspect of them is typically sidelined.

>> No.1556371
File: 567 KB, 300x456, 1500088526138.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1556371

>>1556161
Yet you don't say the name of the country because "hot as balls" to you is 80 F and you know that you will get called a pussy if you name it. Now, however, you will say the name of the country you are supposedly in, but it will be a lie. Then again, now that I've revealed all this you will probably just opt not to respond, in which case I will assume I am correct. Either which way you are a pussy that thinks balmy weather is "hot as balls".

>> No.1556380
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1556380

>>1556371
it was 36c today which is quite nice, but you wouldn't go without some kind of temperature control for too long. it gets to be 45c during hotter months.

its definitely the type of climate air conditioning is made for, and HVAC is not evidently not necessary. that is really my point.

>> No.1556383

>>1556380
Interesting tactic by not stating anywhere specific. Technically though it falls into the "chose not to respond" though so I was right in saying you are a giant pussy that can't handle balmy temperatures.

>> No.1556395
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1556395

>>1556383
you're really not making any sense. it sounds like you're arguing that HVAC is unnecessary too? like you're just agreeing with me so hard that you're calling me a pussy

>> No.1556399

>>1556395
Indeed, I am calling you a pussy.

>> No.1556407
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1556407

>>1556399
from what i can tell, you haven't contributed anything of meaning to this discussion. you're useless. your life probably reflects about the same. you tend to emit confused, abrasive nonsense, a don't really vibe well with others. you find it difficult to spend time with people in person, but you can't really figure out why. you feel like social poison. people tend to fidget and seem uncomfortable around you. you want attention, but you're just getting negative vibes from people. you feel like you're trapped in an awful circle.

its possible that you are really young and haven't figured any of this out. growing up is shit. if you're already in your mid 20's though, it is probably too late. you're human garbage, and a detriment to society.

>> No.1556410
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1556410

>>1556399
also you're definitely being a pussy

>> No.1556440
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1556440

>>1556371
>>1556383
>>1556399
where did you go, pussy?

having a cheeseburger or something?

>> No.1556460
File: 200 KB, 800x800, 1489883985492.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1556460

>>1556407
>>1556410
>>1556440
>trigger alert! arm the projections!
this pussy got triggered lol

>> No.1556480
File: 990 KB, 2560x1920, wooden_church_norway.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1556480

>>1556358
>That only was a thing in the mid-late 20th century, and around the late 70s into the 80s they lost respect in favor of the "designers" who hired them and rarely did manual work themselves.

SAVED!

I shit an american construction here often and for very good reasons, but its actually america that tried changing that trend with their yeomanship culture, hard working self made men and all that which they still have to some degree today. Suprisingly, Trump also comes from enterprenurship circles not aristocratic (as far as we know).

What happened in the 70s, or even 60s is that designers/architects went from reisential to big builds so residential went to shit, you can even see that with F L Wright and his residential design - its totally masturbatory, built to look not to live in. Its like giving a construction engeneer a task to design a log house, it simply doesnt work well.

On the other hand, plenty of highly skilled craftman to today also tend to overdesign their creations just to show of skill and miss the big picture. My ideal is integration of craftsman and the architect, high intellect will always work less with hands and vice versa, but not knowing even the basics of hand work isnt also good for high intellect (and vice versa).
You see that problem with underthinking in food making, but also with overthinking. Its hard to say who is right, but I can surely claim that smth is deeply disfunctional in this relation.

are you the stave church guy?

>>1556395
>you're arguing that HVAC is unnecessary too

it is. If a residential build needs (=rellies on) HVAC, shoot your sleazy contractor.

>> No.1556496
File: 200 KB, 800x1067, house half timber pier 15th century.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1556496

>>1556358
>Craftsmen have almost ALWAYS been scoffed at by whatever aristocracies exist.

but think about this, we use arts&crafts, but how exactly are arts different than crafts - if someone is an artist that builds sculpturs from wood or stone, is he even different than a master woodworkerer or a master stoneworker?

Or how exactly is a self employed woodworker that does his design different from a designer?

Art is often intertwined with intellectual trends and intellectual trends are with politics (politics always censors certain art style and pushed others), so its not that far from one another. People calling themselves "architects" is actually a newer historical trend, it was guilds that used to design and do the handwork and almost always did the higher quality product.

>> No.1556514

>>1556496

It's a craft if I make the same birdhouse 100 times each year and sell it at a crafts fair, for $10 each. It's art if I change something about the bird houses so that each one is unique and is still functional while being visually attractive, and I sell them for $50 each at the same crafts fair.

In other words, to me, an artist is creative and adds something to each creation, while a craftsman is happy to build nice things that just work. Having said that, artistic creations quite often are not great at actually being durable and performing the intended function, and should be used for decorative purposes.

>> No.1556532
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1556532

>>1556460
retard

>> No.1556541

>>1556284
>they weren't able to take it down with a tank
looks like it's not storing water anymore to me
military doesn't like wasting shells for no reason

>> No.1556549
File: 2.39 MB, 1500x1125, swiss alpine house rock foundation.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1556549

THINK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2Cb8b7tK1A

>>1556514
>It's art if I change something about the bird houses so that each one is unique and is still functional while being visually attractive, and I sell them for $50 each at the same crafts fair.

This is a very unprecise distinction, most craftsman do make series of work and ad a slight twist every now and then and most artists usually run the same style of lets say painting and then change it now and then.

>> No.1558729

>>1556294
>too much glass

Years ago I had a job in one of those types of buildings - no windows to open, just walls of glass. Well, one day first thing in the morning the AC system broke down, and after 45 minutes or so we had to evacuate the building, aside from some hardy assouls who got up on the roof and pelted us with roof pebbles. We all eventually had to go home for the rest of the day.

>> No.1559383
File: 182 KB, 768x576, f l wright waterfall.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1559383

>>1558729
(((respectable architects))) like F L Wright are to blame for those anti-utilitarian trends. Wrights architecture wasnt this postmodern death worhsipping faginess you see today but he made the first steps in making houses with aesthetics over function

>> No.1559384

>>1555716
I work as a SE in IL. I try my absolute best to be a blend of the two. To give somewhat of a shit over how the guy in the field needs to accomplish something. However there's just no perfect method of blending the two. I cannot be wholly knowledgeable of construction methods AND be a good design engineer. I can only work based on experience with certain clients

>> No.1559388
File: 222 KB, 1200x715, stone_alpine6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1559388

>>1559384
>However there's just no perfect method of blending the two.

I think the perfect blend is in any folk-architecture style. Swiss alpine houses, american log houses, croatian coastal stone houses, japan traditional houses...all are perfectly functional, aesthetical and also very durable.

Once people started separating workers from thinkers more than they should, it became a shitshow.

>> No.1559389

>>1559383
It baffles me how you can put any bullshit monstrosity down on paper and become a famous, renowned architect such that people build your designs.
Le Corbusier gave himself that nickname which is the faggiest most pretentious thing on the planet that can be done by an urban planner / commie block designer such as him.
Brutalists ought to hang for destroying the cityscapes.
Look at the royal ontario museum, what a goddam eyesore. It's possible to make tasteful, interesting buildings, but you wouldn't know it by looking at the downtowns of modern western cities.

>> No.1559395
File: 303 KB, 758x569, fallingwater-4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1559395

>>1559389
>It baffles me how you can put any bullshit monstrosity down on paper and become a famous, renowned architect such that people build your designs.

Are you referring to Wright's Falling Water? It may be impractical, and artistic appeal is of course subjective, and my design friend says that everything Wright ever built leaked like crazy, but for 1935 this is a wonderful achievement in my opinion.

>> No.1559397
File: 1.37 MB, 2048x1094, 1511871081939.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1559397

>>1559389
>Brutalists ought to hang for destroying the cityscapes.

They should be forced to live in the shit they built.

>Le Corbusier

what does that nick mean?

While all postmodern architecture is total garbage, the thing is that even good looking modernists architecture like some F L Wright stuff is not badly functional but anti-funcktional, just look on the inside of Waterfall, a nightmare for heating, not to mention execution of such a construction. Total narcissism. Total snobbery.

Design should be practical and beautiful. pic rel

>> No.1559400

>>1559397
Le Corbusier means "the builder" roughly.

>> No.1559403

>>1559400
Sorry I think I'm mistaken on that, never mind.

>> No.1559405
File: 160 KB, 1200x675, Arrival_4_13.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1559405

>>1559397
>Design should be practical and beautiful. pic rel

Well, that's just your opinion, man.

I work for an architect who is a genius, in my opinion, in that he designs complex houses without using a computer at all (he's like 70), and most of them are comically impractical. One sad case is way the fuck out in the woods down a mile long single lane gravel driveway (many of his clients build in crazy locations), and the main room isn't large, but it's 3 fucking stories tall with two sides mostly glass that will never be cleaned. We had to drag a 40 foot ladder in there to do the ceiling.

Anyway, the sad part is that a young couple worked with him to design this mess, and after about 3 years they separated and we were called back to paint over some of the crazy colors so it might sell. Last I heard nobody had expressed any interest in paying about a million dollars for that white elephant.

>> No.1559406
File: 237 KB, 1200x900, zagreb rockets.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1559406

>>1559400
>Le Corbusier means "the builder" roughly.

he should have called himself THE TOOL in french, what a total faggot. He was very influential on local architects down here - ugly, possible, but stuff they did was structurally very solid.

>> No.1559409
File: 49 KB, 750x500, lesbian stairs award 2016.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1559409

>>1559405
>I work for an architect who is a genius, in my opinion, in that he designs complex houses without using a computer at all (he's like 70), and most of them are comically impractical.

how is that creativity? A child can combine colours but thinking forward about use of something is another dimension of thinking. Its almost a caricature of what you see on startups on kickstarter, total overdesign and underthink.

>> No.1559413

>>1559409
>no guard or handrail
>my wife's son slipped and broke his neck but at least we have a cool staircase

>> No.1559468

What material should I build my house of?

Climate: Mediterranean, might see some snow once in a while
Location: Mountain suburban
Risk factors: Earthquakes
Plot size: 2000-3000m2

>> No.1559493

>>1559409
Were those stairs invented to prevent people to climb them?

>> No.1559503
File: 32 KB, 600x450, croatian shit shack red brick reinforced concrete building site walls.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1559503

>>1559493
>Were those stairs invented to prevent people to climb them?

that and to win a lesbian design of the year award

>>1559468
>Climate: Mediterranean, might see some snow once in a while
>Location: Mountain suburban
>Risk factors: Earthquakes

northern Italy? Alpine France?

If earthquakes are your thing, Humble croatian red aerated terracota brick salesmen is here!

If you want to play it safe, just do a basic RC beam and fill your walls with red aerated terracota bricksTM, possible external insulation if cold with a good terra roof on RC (why do it on cheap timber roof if you can do an RC roof?) and that is it.

If you are feeling adventerous and have the money for it, go for Swiss Alpine.

>> No.1559996

>>1555850
IDK where you're from but I can promise you that in some way shape form or fashion you're being jewed this very second

>> No.1560011

>>1559409
>angry carpenter noises, leaves jobsite
>angry metal worker noises, leaves jobsite
>Mexican shrugs and sticks stairs on drywall with blu tac

>> No.1560226

>>1559388
Vernacular architecture is usually a great source of design inspiration as it's evolved to blend the occupant's needs and environmental conditions over hundreds or thousands of years.

However, notice the shift from this in recent (relative) times. There's less consideration of the overall design and more of what's cheap, or just a complete lack of forethought.

Not sure what I'm getting at here, but just that I agree it's become a shitshow.

>> No.1560230

>>1555716
>tfw like thinking and working with hands
is there a place for me in this world?

>> No.1560236
File: 214 KB, 1024x768, house alpine style chalet swiss.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1560236

>>1560226
>There's less consideration of the overall design and more of what's cheap, or just a complete lack of forethought.

but there is also the reverse problem - people who think, totally overthink and overdesign stuff they create >>1559383, since they never worked with their hands they dont have that wisdom about solid building those old wise carpenters have. Those Apolonian fags, even sometimes take anti-utility as a badge of honour to prove how much anti-bourgaisse they are, commies.

But we still need strong thinkers, there is nothing wrong with thinking, but the quality of think isnt right today.

>>1560230
>is there a place for me in this world?

Were in the same spot anon, unless we create one there wont be one.

>> No.1560238

>>1559468
>>1559503
+1 for RC.

Although in reality you could build from steel too, assuming you follow fundamental stability design:
- Don't build too high (stick to 1 storey if you can)
- Ensure your member connections are designed for load reversal (e.g. during an earthquake if the ground moves up then down quickly, your house might still be moving up as the ground starts moving down)
- Ensure you've got sufficient torsional and lateral stability (rotating and swaying), by positioning your load bearing walls or bracing carefully

Just a few tips so you have some ideas when you speak to a designer.

>> No.1560242

>>1560238
>Although in reality you could build from steel too

Can you tell me more about residential steel builds? You would build it as timber frame Tudor style and fill in between? what would you use for "filling it"?

I assume you have to run plenty of diagonal beams also to prevent flexing? I think UK had problems with those steel builds once due to high moisture but noone in Europe is expert on steel builds (even skyscrapers are done here by RC). How about the comparative expenses?

t.

>> No.1560267

>>1560242
You've nailed the fundamentals really, you have the main steel frame that would be like the timber frame in a Tudor structure, then fill in the gaps.

I'm based in the UK so the following is my experience of it.

There are a lot of 'modular' infill panels these days, but most commonly you'll use light-gauge steel or timber studs, insulate between these and cover the whole thing in an external insulation such as EPS (expanded polystyrene). This uniform wrapping of insulation stops cold bridging. Lastly you'll finish it with cladding to provide weather resistance - this could be timber or a skin of masonry (maybe even expanded terracotta!)

Internally, you can infill however you want as the frame does all the load bearing.

You're right that diagonal members (bracing) is needed too, which is usually 'lost' within walls. In large scale construction you can avoid this by using RC shear walls and cores instead, or 'portal frame's for commercial spaces.

Regarding cost it's hugely location dependent, and also depends on your architectural desires. There are guides online, but in general in the UK steel is typically slightly more expensive, but RC isn't usually used for individual residential properties.

>> No.1560295

>>1559388
But most of those tradional house are small, built for their needs without utilies and are not restricted by codes.

We cant go back to building simple homes, the case is that at the end of the day the client will want to have a big garage, loads of windows, and HVAC and electrical appliances.

All those factors add loads of hands on the job and diffrent areas of expertise which end up to adding on to the cost.

Most people just want to live in a house and could care less if it's of lesser quality. Most people who have custom homes built will have limited fund and will most likely spend less on materials and expertise in exchange for a larger home with all the cool gadgets they want.

The fact is the way homes and buildings were built before was more out of necessity than out of luxury. There is a reason why tradional homes were well isolated, were more functional, and used materials (usually local) which blended better with their environment because they couldn't do it any other way, plus these homes usually lasted lifetimes because they had to since its not likely a farmer would be moving.

At the end of the day cost is king for modern homes and buildings. And most individuals do no stay in one place long nor place any real importance on the quality of the space they live. Does it blow it comes at the cost of quality of architecture? Of course but it's many influences and not just muh bad designers.

Trust me there are alot of shit architects who were pretending to build art rather than a functional space and most are garbage but there is need for a creative talent as much as there is for good craftsmen because it's an extremely rare thing to find someone good at both.

You come off as very naive saying it's purely a designers fault or that a common craftsmen can do all the jobs a designer does.

Trust me anon I long for a good sense of architecture because it kills me to see all these shitty buildings over once beautiful land.

>> No.1560442

>>1556480
>it is. If a residential build needs (=rellies on) HVAC, shoot your sleazy contractor.

How exactly do you keep a single family dwelling warm in the winter months?
It dips as low as -35C (-31F) here overnight.
There is no amount of brick that will keep you, or your pipes, from freezing.
You need insulation and heat.

>> No.1560472

>>1560442
Traditional open pit fire in the center of the home. Mcchimney and McClure is just mccontractors trying to ruin your ability to efficiently spread heat throughout your living space. Imagine purposefully putting a direct pipe outside your home to take the hottest products of your combustion.

An open fire might sound terrible and dangerous and smokey, but with the added efficiency of the openness, you can keep the fire much lower and burn less wood and thus less smoke

>> No.1560507
File: 763 KB, 500x275, download.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1560507

>>1555716

>> No.1560657

I think the main thing we can all agree on is the need for a culture shift more than anything.

For example, you can have all modern gadgets fitted to a well insulated 'zero-energy' home (e.g. Pasivhaus). The issue it's usually slightly more costly upfront and some compromises will need to be made, but with good design it can still be amazing.

The issue is the consumer not wanting to pay the extra for this, as demonstrated by our throw-away society.

We're moving forward in the right direction, but change is slow.

>> No.1560701

>>1555716
Get with the program. It's 2019 and African Americans have taken over politics because the only two things they are capable of doing is demanding gibsmedats and breeding.
They don't work, and don't think.
Western civilization is headed to hell in a handbasket. Only fix is to increase white fertility rates and pass out birth control or incarcerate blacks, whatever it takes to get the societal cancer under control.

>> No.1560717

>>1560472
>Imagine purposefully putting a direct pipe outside your home to take the hottest products of your combustion.
A modern high efficiency condensing furnace is 95% efficient, scrubbing all useable heat and then venting the POISONOUS products of combustion OUT of the home.

>but with the added efficiency of the openness
This is not a metric of efficiency.

>trying to ruin your ability to efficiently spread heat throughout your living space.
Ill take duct work for 200 please.

>Traditional open pit fire in the center of the home.
And while we're at it, let's eliminate the need for plumbing pipes and just sell them a traditional bucket to shit in. So much more efficient, and no risk of freezing.

>> No.1560871

>>1560295
>But most of those tradional house are small, built for their needs without utilies and are not restricted by codes.

There were numerous big builds from folk-mindset, that tick all the boxes I described, from big familiy homes of a well of merchants to castles, it was all held to a much bigger standard of execution. Money was never a factor in quality nor was the frequency of moving.

>You come off as very naive saying it's purely a designers fault or that a common craftsmen can do all the jobs a designer does.

I actually warned of making the mistake of throwing the good with the bad here>>1560236
>But we still need strong thinkers, there is nothing wrong with thinking, but the quality of think isnt right today.

>>1560442
>How exactly do you keep a single family dwelling warm in the winter months?
>It dips as low as -35C (-31F) here overnight.

This is actually a situation where you need insulation, but in most cases insulation and especially HVAC are just there to cover mistakes of a bad design.

>>1560472
>Traditional open pit fire in the center of the home.

I would not suggest that.

>>1560657
>For example, you can have all modern gadgets fitted to a well insulated 'zero-energy' home

THIS, Im in no way suggesting going back to more primitive societies, regarding cost of good build, you can buy 2nd hand houses IF they are built durable. Durability is a money saver.

>> No.1561023

>>1560871
>in most cases insulation and especially HVAC are just there to cover mistakes of a bad design.

I disagree.
Do you have any examples to back up your claim?

>> No.1561037

>>1560871
Lol shut the fuck up you ignorant shit. You have literally claimed that HVAC systems are “McConstruction”.

>> No.1561039

Also, Croatian dumb fuck thinks he’s an engineer but is too chicken shit to actually try to debate engineering principles

>> No.1561173

>>1556159
SE here

Every material has its place or we wouldn't use them.
Everything breaks eventually.
Literally Entropy.

>> No.1561192

>>1561023
>Do you have any examples to back up your claim?

alpine log houses, all terra houses in Middle East, all kinds of afolk builds.

>>1561037
>You have literally claimed that HVAC systems are “McConstruction”.

yes I did. If your house rellies on HVAC for moisture control and treats AC as an essential in temperature regulation its suboptimally built for its climate.

Relying (=/=using) on HVAC or AC in a house is like being hooked on pain pills for your back pain while your back is in need of an operation/stretching whatever.

>>1561039
>Also, Croatian dumb fuck thinks he’s an engineer but is too chicken shit to actually try to debate engineering principles

Fight me now bitch!

>> No.1561213

>>1560871
Ya know, there are huge swathes of the American Midwest, Canada, Northern Europe, and Asia that are in cold climates which regularly hit well below -10/-15C in the winter (in my part of the US -20/-25C is not entirely uncommon in January). To say "most cases" when you're a Croat (an EXTREMELY mild climate) is not only inaccurate, but it's kind of funny. Like, you're unable to look beyond your own climate to understand that architectural advances have been different based on the needs of local climate.

Anyway, how would you balance living in a part of the world where winter lasts a minimum of 4 months out of the year with your "let it breathe" ideology? All I can come up with is "move".

>> No.1561230

>>1561192
>alpine log houses, all terra houses in Middle East, all kinds of afolk builds.

Let's take Arizona for example which gets hot as balls during the summer. Instead of relying on more passive ways to insulate like Adobe or underground rooms/basement to avoid the heat, like was traditionally done most people from the natives to the Spanish, rather people opt for a robust a/c system.

Is it not as efficient? Of course, but you're not going to get a client who comes from back east or some colder euro climate to adopt those most of the time because they rather have what they want/grew up with/ is culturally significant; sloped roofs for an area with virtually no snow is useless, along with a lush yard of grass in the desert prone to droughts, these styles which are ineffective to this area tend to be chosen by people like snowbirds (who come here to feel their cold as states) rather than what is seen as a "mud building" to people not from the area.

Is it stupid and inefficient? Of course but at the end of the day at least in the states money talks and the market can care jack-shit about what is efficient or architecturally best for the circumstances, especially if the client wants to bring a little piece of home to a wildly different environment. There is are many variables as to why there are so many lawns in a desert and why the use of Adobe is ignored in a vast majority of the sw us.

>> No.1561251
File: 172 KB, 1200x800, house adobe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1561251

>>1561230
>Adobe

Yeah, that is what I was talking about, a house that doesnt relly on AC is not some "authentic living" shipping container small house hipster meme, it was probably already done on ones local area.

Dont they still build new Adobe houses in Arizona? They are at least still around from what Ive seen in pictures, smart little builds - thick walls ftw.

>>1561213
>Anyway, how would you balance living in a part of the world where winter lasts a minimum of 4 months out of the year with your "let it breathe" ideology?

You are correct, Croatian weather is mild on average, but it swings in both extremes occasionally.

Regarding very cold climates - log house in the style of beautiful Alpine Swiss house. Wood is a superb isolation and it breathes. If Swiss can live in it in Alpine climate which is far from mild, so can Canadians. Its all been done before, no need for new unreliable space technology like spray foam, HVAC, tyvek and such gimmicks.

>> No.1561253

>>1561192
>alpine log houses, all terra houses in Middle East,

Alpine log houses have a WOOD STOVE for heat. Which arguably falls Into the H portion of HVAC doesn't it?

I'm not considering your mud hut in a war zone to be a home or dwelling.

>> No.1561254

>>1561253
>Which arguably falls Into the H portion of HVAC doesn't it?

technically true, but by HVAC I mean primarily ventilation systems.

>I'm not considering your mud hut in a war zone to be a home or dwelling.

no problem Ill put some Tyvek on the outside and faux rock stucco over it, raw spray foam insulation, leaky asphalt shingles on roof to get a homely feel if you really insist.

>> No.1561289

>>1561254
Lol,

Who hurt you?
Point on the doll where the bad contractor man touched you.