/diy/ - Do It Yourself

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>>1730634
thanks anon

>>1730567
If you're in the USA then you'll need to learn allen bradley (rslogix 500/5000). So unless you want to drop 10k your options are micrologix1000, the software simulator, or the micro8XXs.

The micrologix1000 has some free software out there but it's kinda hard to find these days as it's out of date. It uses rslogix Starter which is just a limited version of rslogix 500 which is the software you'll use in the field.

There is a software simulator that would work pretty well. The software works identacally to rslogix 500 so it's a pretty good option. I think this is the link for the site but I've haven't used it in nearly half a decade https://logixpro-500-plc-simulator.software.informer.com/

The micro800's have free software from the ab website. However, they don't use the real rslogix software. So most controls engineers don't like them. Automation direct has a line of plcs but they have the same problem. They don't use the allen bradley software.

Personally, I'd buy the parts separately from automationdirect.com, except for the plc. They have all the sensors/switches that you could ever want. This also works as bonus training because half your job working with plc's is figuring out exactly what parts you need to buy.

If you have to buy a trainer then get something like this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Allen-Bradley-Micro820-Programmable-CCW-PLC-Trainer-Micro800-Training-Kit/282520044142?epid=26032791325&hash=item41c781c26e:g:t-sAAOSwc3ZbUbLa

>>1730872
>Personally, I'd buy the parts separately from automationdirect.com, except for the plc. They have all the sensors/switches that you could ever want. This also works as bonus training because half your job working with plc's is figuring out exactly what parts you need to buy.

So essentially just putting my own projects together would be better than buying one of those training kits I take it? Seems most those kits are just some 3-wire contactor/alarm light setup, the kind I had to do during lab when I took motor controls during my electrical apprenticeship BUT with the PLC of course.

>>1730872
>If you're in the USA then you'll need to learn allen bradley (rslogix 500/5000). So unless you want to drop 10k your options are micrologix1000

I'm searching through some of the rutracker torrent links for a copy of a working rslogix version thats been activated already.

Btw what do you think about Ron Beaufort's PLC training bootcamp? Apparently he retired from teaching but I found his YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq3oKf4utveG_JercY9-RTA

Also, would it help to start loading up on credits from these training courses from TCPtraining? The courses seem to cover the basics at least https://www.tpctraining.com/pages/electrical-instrumentation-systems-technician-training

Looking to get as prepared as I possibly can for a career in PLC programming/instrumentation, there really aren't any industrial automation programs at my local college nor at any of the tech schools (here in the USA) so my only hope is through the self study route for now. Thanks for all the info PLC anon, I'm really stoked.

Currently a software engineer at a manufacturing plant, my boss is trying to convince me to transition into controls engineering. Does this shit pay well and is it difficult? Their current controls engineer is a local contractor. I can learn anything, I really only care about money and I hate repetition. Good idea to switch?

whoops forgot to add this link

https://www.tpctraining.com/pages/instrumentation-control-systems-technician-training

>>1730893
>my boss is trying to convince me to transition into controls engineering.

What does controls engineering entail? Designing control circuits and programs for some techie to setup and install?

>>1730872
>Personally, I'd buy the parts separately from automationdirect.com, except for the plc. They have all the sensors/switches that you could ever want. This also works as bonus training because half your job working with plc's is figuring out exactly what parts you need to buy.

Okay, so I better start learning about all of Allen Bradley's product lines, same goes for Siemens, Omron, etc for an added bonus, no?

>>1730567
Automation direct has cheap little plcs for under $200 that come with free software.

>>1730567
What you want is a 2 year Engineering Technology degree focusing on Robotics and Automation. You can probably torrent a copy of LogixPro (aka learn basic relay logic), but a copy of RSLogix 500/5000 and whatever Siemens is using is going to cost an insane amount out of pocket. Allen Bradley / Rockwell is common in older plants, with newer ones seeing more Siemens gear; but being familiar with both is ideal.
I took the basic PLC class for my major (4 year EET doing the electrical/electronics engineering path) but looking back should have gotten the 2 year automation degree along the way. 100% job placement rate in my graduating class for kids who did automation.
>>1730902
You're not far off.
Control Systems Engineering, 7e by Norman Nise was my control theory class textbook. Give it a skim, and see if you feel comfortable with the material. Think PID loops, algorithm development, and optimization of processes to meet whatever spec you're being told to make happen. Laplace Transforms and knowing how to implement basic control systems in LabView or Matlab, etc. is a plus.
The 4 year automation kids (New program, started after I graduated) get the same class just without the engineering math, go figure.

>>1730567
Use CLP simulators. Currently I'm migrating from Siemens to Schneider. ModiconEasyM200 (Schneider). Easy, trustable, robust, and, cheap (compared with Siemens CLPs). A lot of I/Os in a single module. Free software, etc.

>>1731054
*PLC

>>1731005
Thanks for the pro tips automation anon, I really appreciate it, unfortunately there are no degree programs in my area specializing in Robotics and Automation so that was why I was looking into some of these certification classes from
Tcptraining.com

https://www.tpctraining.com/pages/instrumentation-control-systems-technician-training


Maybe even some of those modules could possibly count as credits towards a degree in Robotics and Automation if it was to be available in my neck of the woods. There is a local contractor that does strictly PLC/HMI, etc, they do all the service work for the local power and water plants. Maybe I should shoot them an email and see if they know how I could go about the right avenue for getting the proper training.

>>1731054
>Use PLC simulators.

Will do.

>>1730899

From an academic background controls engineering would start with a mechE or aeroE degree and you would work with systems modeling and implementation of control systems from theory to nuts and bolts.

>>1731067
Which state are you in? The instrumentation technician program you linked looks OK, but some of that stuff you're really be better learning hands on, if you can. Local Vo-Tecs, tech schools, etc. likely do offer PLC programs, even if they're not specifically called "robotics and automation". If you're really stuck with nothing nearby there's probably online programs, but I have no idea what that would involve.

You could also do traditional college and get a 4 year Engineering or Engineering Tech degree. Expect lots of math and hours slaving either over hard math or labs. I went the 4 year route since I wanted to do traditional engineering type work, but ET programs have enough flexibility that if you only wanted to do hands on PLC type work, you can totally do that.

>>1730872
>rockwell
The fake and gay dcs. Also the only plc I know of with no SIL rating.

I've been a RS guru for my company the last 10 years.

I started by putting plcs on my resume. I used one once, for 10 minutes during uni. As an ee in uni my profs wouldn't train me on plcs. Their answer:you'll figure it out in 5 minutes. They weren't wrong.

Hired immediately they put me in charge of migrating their plant from modicon/Honeywell to rockwell/deltav. Ran me through training, gave me a budget and a timeline. It was funny watching the Rockwell guys tell me deltav was a waste and Rockwell was more than a dcs. It wasn't. What Rockwell will fail to tell you is about its caveats. It's non sensical versioning and it's insane requirement to reboot its controllers whenever you make slight changes. When you run a continuous process, this is insane. Deltav on the other hand is quite stable, slow as all fuck and 3x the price. Laugh as the process engineers who shill it all to hell tell you to control mccs with it, then take 5 seconds to realize a start or stop button was pushed. Again, insanity. But the worst is when a 3rd party solution is used to make the systems communicate. When issues arise noone takes the blame and you get stuck with it.

All the training in the world will teach you nothing. Understanding how the code style was written is all you need to know regardless of the platform. Otherwise it's just a blinking box. Furthermore, learn Cisco. You'll be glad you did. The rest of the "advice" on this thread is only fap material. Best advice I can give you is just lie at the interview and get started asap. Noone will notice you reading the manual as you start the software or use the helpline.

>>1731534
> my profs wouldn't train me on plcs. Their answer:you'll figure it out in 5 minutes.
You have to remember not everyone has an EE background to call on as a reference. Ladder logic and PLC is EZ stuff for you and me maybe, but what got you that job was the engineering degree.
> Rockwell controllers suck
They have quirks, for sure. You should have seen the wacky VM setup they used at school just to make the older Rockwell/Allen Bradley software work. Windows XP only, and newer versions of the software didn't support whatever firmware was on the controllers. (aka, forcing you to spend money, if possible). Thankfully most of the AB/Rockwell stuff is in legacy installs at this point, and newer plants in my area are all Siemens. The networking advice is spot on though, you'd be surprised where that comes in handy.

>>1730927
ladder only with a cancer IDE and no use in the field
NO!
>>1731005
the Siemens shit can be found on a Russian forum, just google
>>1731587
>mfw we still ship new AB controlled Lines to the US for extra $$
>on customer request

>>1731587
Welp I wasn't the guy writing the programs. I was the guy unfucking them or approving them. We had 2 techs writing the code. When they fucked up they asked me. It's really braindead work. What takes me 1 line takes them 5. God help you if you even suggested structured text.. But it's a cushy 100k+/year job you'll never lose as a tech no matter how bad you fuck it up.

The plant I'm at now is stuck on controller version 16 with slcs and plc5s still in play. Everything is xp/7. They refuse to upgrade due to the instrumentation / electrical wars they have while using a 40 year old bailey system. Millions spent on keeping it running because the instrument sup has a pic of a board member fucking a goat. So instead of running a single fiber they run 50 pairs to keep it in dcs.

>quirks
Rockwell doesn't test shit. They advertise non functioning features then abandon their development. Same goes with their partner products. Take nothing for granted. I've watched 50k, 1000hp motors melt because of them. Plants randomly shutting down. Countless man-hours lost because of bad, out of the box firmware. Commission every feature above and beyond or suffer the consequences. Also, never call support after North American business hours. If your agent takes more than 1/2 hour on your case, drop him, make a new case with a new agent.

>networking
Beware of dumb switches. Stick to one brand. Lrn2wireshark. And never, ever listen to IT. Don't even let them manage your vms. Become your own IT for max success.

>>1731492
>Which state are you in?

Floriduh, in the 772 Treasure Coast area.

>>1731596
I guarantee those AB parts are for some oldass legacy plant that got it's last upgrade in 1990, and has some wacky certification on that exact part that getting again would cost $$$ so upgrades are out of the question.
>>1731597
Hearing that kind of makes me wonder if going into FPGA dev / electronics was the wrong path, and I should have stuck with manufacturing lol. Braindead work is a drain, but you can tolerate a lot of BS for 100k a year.
> Old Tech
There's this wire rope plant not far from me that uses some wacky electromechanical controls dating back to the 1890s. It was interesting to look at, but I wouldn't want to maintain the thing. Old school relay logic, with real relays.
> Goat Sex Factory
Freaking lol. There's always money to fix things but never enough to upgrade, even if it saves money in the long run.
I have to wonder if Rockwell main income these days is old plants that people are too cheap to upgrade / legacy installs. Vendor lock-in can be hell. Is their NA support outsourced to India? Explains an awful lot about some of the stories friends have told me about working with rockwell stuff.
Your networking advice is literally 100% spot on, recognizing and being able to fix a managed switch is a huge time saver.
>>1731635
Here's an example of what you should be looking for, if you want to go the applied route anon:
https://www.irsc.edu/programs/electronics-engineering-technology.html
I have no idea how actually close you are to that place I linked; but really any 2 year electronics program that mentions robotics, controls, etc. will cover pretty much the same thing. Jobs tend to be plentiful if you're competent, and pay is in the $20+/hr range starting, at least here in PA. Like the other anon said, make a career out of it and 100k+ a year for braindead work can be you.

>>1731668
>Here's an example of what you should be looking for, if you want to go the applied route anon:
>https://www.irsc.edu/programs/electronics-engineering-technology.html
>I have no idea how actually close you are to that place I linked; but really any 2 year electronics program that mentions robotics, controls, etc. will cover pretty much the same thing. Jobs tend to be plentiful if you're competent, and pay is in the $20+/hr range starting, at least here in PA.

Thanks for the tip anon.

>>1731668
>make a career out of it and 100k+ a year for braindead work can be you.

Aside from the money I'd actually look forward to going to work the next morning too.

>>1731668
>Here's an example of what you should be looking for, if you want to go the applied route anon:
>https://www.irsc.edu/programs/electronics-engineering-technology.html

I'll probably go with earning my technical certificate credits first and finding employment, then I'll go for the actual degree, I'll need some refresher courses in Algebra, it's been years since I took that shit.

>>1731668
I guarantee some of those old legacy parts are going to our sister plant that refuses to use anything but plc5. It was build when plc5 when silver.

Even making 140k a year the fights get old. Instrumentation vs electrical. People egos. Farmers. It all gets old.

>>1731675
>Even making 140k a year the fights get old. Instrumentation vs electrical. People egos. Farmers. It all gets old.

You have to work with electrical contractors who think they know it all?

>>1731678
No. In house techs. Most of them are farmers.

As per contractors unless they are nested they're usually useless for the first 4 months unless its a greenfield project.

>>1731679
>Most of them are farmers.

I've heard they're the worst when it comes to doing 'hack jobs'.

>>1731686
Naw they just don't care about the job keeping their lights on and would rather be farming.

>>1731675
What's their plan now that plc5 is EOL? Eventually even ebay won't have spares.
>>1731675
I want to type "farmers are special" but it's kind of an understatement, one of my roommates in college was a farm boy studying diesel tech, and it was pretty clear his life played by a totally different set of rules. Finding a job for him was asking the good old boy' network and pretty much guaranteed, once he was done with school. Nearly all of the ones I met managed to have a kid by 22-23. And yeah, they're stubborn as hell even if in the wrong, and it means more work for them.
>>1731674
>t. had to work from remedial alg up to Calc III and differential equations
College algebra isn't that different from high school math classes, and shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 for an AA degree. I wish you luck anon, good technicians are worth their weight in gold; and you seem actually interested in this stuff.

>>1731534
The fuck you talking about rebooting controllers to make slight changes?You can online edit basically everything.

>>1731946
They buy them refurbed for new projects.
>>1731949
Go ahead and make an implicit message. Let me know how that works out for ya little niglet.

not US but fucking hell
im a farm boy and like 1/3 of my coworkers aswell
does farm and autism go hand in hand?

>>1730567
FUCK PLC programming

>>1732009
Unfortunately my company has a hodgepodge of 5, 500, and 5000 processors so I have to use msg commands to talk between them all.

>>1732337
No not msg commands. The other one. Try it with 5k, needs a reboot every time. That and erasing a tag.

>>1732413
I'm aware, I'm saying we don't use anything but msg commands where I work as we have to talk to older processors which can't do the other thing. So we standardized on msg commands only. Even between 5000s.

>>1732539
So you don't use ethernet/IP devices? Even generic ones? A distributed control system? I envy you. You can afford the overhead.

We had to string 12 5k processors toghether with impicits because "it's more than a dcs" means you have to distribute the tags yourself.