/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

part 2 with how he shows a posterization he did in photoshop and then rendered over.

>>5024522
>>5024523
Aren't those Simon/Teal guy studies? Either way I can't really help you to better understand his advice, but I will recommend you to do the Dorian Iten course "Mastering Light and Form Dorian Iten" that you can find in the online-courses site, it will give you a deep udnerstanding of how light works.
Also watch Iten's "Light – a drawing guide" in the same site, he gives some nice tips that most teachers don't tell you about rendering.
One last thing, learning the planes of the body will help you A LOT in the rendering process, so if you haven't already study that, it will make the "breaking it into shapes first" part easier.
(Sorry for grammar mistakes, I'm ESL).
Also if you are brave enough post some of your work/ rendering tests so anons are able to give you some advice on what you are doing wrong.

>>5024523
Damn, I don't know why I never thought of that. This looks like a great technique for photobashing

>>5024522
https://youtu.be/zC3OxonJcXQ

Literally all you need to learn rendering skin.
Though I think using lasso tool to make hard edges is much better for beginners

>>5024531
>Simon/Teal guy
does anyone know if he has a blog?

>>5024572
He has a twitter, but it's very different to what you might expect https://twitter.com/simon_7617118/media

>>5024593
that's disappointing

>>5024593
i heard from an anon that simon has an alt account
theres no way that this guy draws only twice a week
and he also mysteriously stopped drawing any lewds at some point
i bet he shares his secret lewd account only to his close friends
fuck

>>5024603
Why are there so many paranoid schizo trannies on here?

>>5024522
PYW, I will help

>>5024610
Trannies try to distinguish themselves from others, so they try hard. Thry use everything that can be used to create a false sense of 'uniqueness', so they go and tug their fillthy ass holes to 4chinz via discord and shilly artposting.
Fuck them. We can only hope that they will complete their suicide mission and drop their levels of presence here to somewhat normal levels.

>>5024610
i may be paranoid
i may be a schizo
but goddamn if im not a real red-blooded testosterone-filled MAN

>>5024621
PYD
post your dick

>>5024620
based

>>5024630
He hadn't posted 'his' dick so he is not based. Also based on fucking what?

>>5024537
>"use a hard round brush"
>think they mean use a solid brush
>that isn't a solid brush
>wonder what even that brush is

>>5024634
maybe soft graphite brush?
whatever
You can do this even with shit tools. And of course they will not tell you what the fucking brush they use for the sake of cut-throat competition.

Here's some of my /beg/ renders. For some context, i come a from a background of almost exclusively colorless lineart and sketching, and have been wanting to learn to render so I can "finish" my art.

>>5024654

>>5024655

>>5024658

>>5024654
kairu-sama, is this u?

>>5024660
fucked up from pelvis to toes

>>5024661
Who's kairu

>>5024634
Hard round is so misleading because what they actually mean is a pressure sensitive brush that's soft on one axis

>>5024662
Somewhat intentional, since the creature's a knuckle-walker and rarely stands upright, but I've never been the best at connecting the legs to the trunk

>>5024663
>tfw not knowing about airbrush TENNO kairu

>>5024672
It seems he's good, does he have a channel or anything I can watch

>>5024674
Better not to, but why would you listen?
He had some shit tutorial made back in 2012

>>5024680
Cuz I wanna git gud at rendering

>>5024683
First you need to do is to study simple 3d-figures, values and shading, (don't forget the point where the light comes from) after you feel confident with this move to:
>studying plains of the simplified head/figure etc >whatch and try to predict where will the light parts be and where the shadows will lie, use references at first for extra support
>learn about hue/saturation and do the same thing with color
If it is your choice can go for fancy poo poo pee pee like ambient occlusion like nips do. Gives some extra 'gud art' points.


¦

>>5024672
Looks like he traced a 3D model, and her skin is rendered like some budget PVC figure.

Does he make any money off this?

and her skin looks like

>>5024672
Looks like he traced a 3D model, and her skin is rendered like some budget PVC figure.

Does he make any money off this?

>>5024694
yes yes like a corpse
but coomers don't care, they just coom

>>5024698
>yes he does
>and yes, the skin is like that of a corpse
>dont you think that he does it for the coom money, and not for fun?

>>5024692
you are a /beg/ and have no idea what you are talking about, back to the drawing board retard, and remove your fucking trip

>>5024721
I just draw whenever I want and inb by your shit.
Go crab elsewhere, rendering is just a buzzword for painting.

>>5024634
Hard Round Brush with 50% opacity.

>>5024654
Your problem is lack of interesting colours, contrasty value which is related to the former
because colour itself has values. The others
have really bad anatomy and proportions.
Besides all that, not enough interesting shapes
either. Watch Sinix and look at Shapecarver’s stuff

I will go into more detail tomorrow morning(for me)

>>5024537
any more like this?

"Rendering" takes skill, time and effort, it's not something easy. No one who actually knows about art says it easy.

The only place that underrates it is here, and it's mostly by ngmi calart trannies that hate realism or any kind of art that takes actual effort.

>>5024619
hey thanks bro!

heres one study I did by creating my own light source + terminators on an organic object, I did all the shit like creating a grid and making it look all methodical and shit but the technique itself is really lackluster.

>>5024619

and another circle study

>>5024619

last study, this time with colors. these look decent but i can only seem to render fucking balls and i dont really wanna be doing just that lol

>>5024940
sauce?

krenz 1

krenz 2

krenz 3

stuff like this kinda goes over my head, all i can do is copy without understanding it

>>5024881
I see what you mean about the values after grayscaling the legs.

>>5024522
Any video that shows this process?
there's no way I can do accurate render like this without lasso or blend brush

>>5024660
i'm confused and wonder what it is you're not understanding. what is rendering to you? representing light across the forms clearly? details and texture? the entire thing?
excuse the piss poor anatomy lighting.

>>5025003
I'm not so much interested in details and texture, that stuff comes wau down the pipeline. I want to do what you did with my Beefcake, the dynamic and clear lighting with strong shadow shapes and good colors.

>>5025018
then its a form problem, think of the shapes of whatever it is you're rendering and go from there. as much of a meme as it is to simplify things down to primitives there is a lot of truth to it. if you can render a cube and a sphere then it's not too hard to apply that knowledge.

>>5025047
Alright. I'll try it out.

>>5024634
Hard round just means a plain untextured round brush with a completely hard edge (in contrast with a soft airbrush), pressure opacity is fine

>>5025047
Could have been better, did I do it right?

how do i finish rendering this study properly?

ive tried doing it similar to the ball methods but it all comes out muddy and looking like shit , i spent about 9 hours on this unironically trying to catch the shapes and be as accurate as possible

>>5024522
Just paint in cellshading, coomers don't really care anyways.

>>5025152
This isn't for coomers, this is for me.

>>5024634
>>5024637
>>5024667
"Hard" refers the the edge of the brush not it's opacity stupid fucks.

>>5025096
yes but when it comes to understanding form and part of the reason people talk shit on doing photostudies is that you're still just copying. only by changing the lightsource to one different from the reference will you really be forced to think about it. do 2 more, underlit and and inversion of the current setup where you light what is currently in shadow - basically consider where the bounced light is as the one of the alternate sources.

>>5025155
and you're not a coomer?

>>5025128
think about how light works a bit simpler, if you had a red torch its just a white bulb through a red plastic plate. you can think of most everything in this way > white light hits object, it absords colour and reflects the colour we see. so light is hitting the grass, grass is now to the scene what the red plastic is to the torch so treat your objects as little lights bouncing their colour onto the nearby surfaces. fuck thats an awkward explanation.

>>5024672
what the hell kinda vagina is that? damn virgins trying to draw what they have no idea of

>>5025284
Aight

>>5025315

thank you that helped a lot.

what sort of settings do you have for your brush and eraser? im using a hard round with pressure sensitivity at 50% opacity, but that paint over looks sort of like airbrush, or does it really matter.

>>5025376
its an air/softbrush and yes it matters when you're dealing with soft transitions like those on a sphere. i don't have any immediate examples of taking a more textured approach but its most likely something you have to embrace fully or not bother with. don't try to round peg square hole a chunky brush.

>>5025376
what happend with her hand?

>>5024522
https://youtu.be/6vapw6n6FyU
This better explains how light works than most video tutorials I've seen.

>>5025315

i tried doing that technique you mentioned in my own still life setup, let me know if this is making sense or not

>>5026115
A bit exaggerated, but you kind of understand the concepts? I feel like what you're lacking is any sort of strong, hard light, your piece seems to be composed of only ambient/soft lights which are more often than not only a part of the overall lighting.
Look at pic related and compare it to your piece. note the differences in how the form is shown thru all the diferent types of "light"

>>5024654
Stop using white backgrounds for renders. It fucks up your value sense. At least use some light grey.

>>5024522
This doesn't cover hard lighting. Only soft studio lighting. Hard lighting will
have other stuff such as bounced light in cast shadows which I have not
covered here. You should first try tackling this studio lighting, then I'll help
you with hard lighting which is generally what you would see in real life

>>5026920
more on edges

>>5026920
>>5026936
Everything I mentioned here and knowledge of forms is all you need to render
skin in soft lighting. Definitely look up Vilppu's modelling tone and Sinix and
shape carver's stuff.

Sinix for interesting colours
Vilppu for feeling the form
Shapecarver for interesting shapes

>>5024721
>remove your fucking trip
if he did, someone would take him seriously and you couldn’t filter him

>>5024914
don't use gradient bg like this. This makes no sense in real world. There's no impressionistic
equivalent in the real world especially black to white which is such a hard gradients.
Also, gradients and airburshes in general are so mathematically perfect that they don't look
good. Use a large hard edge brush with opacity jitter instead.

The dark cyan bg I did previously can be thought of as an impression of daylight / blue sky
but I didn't really take advantage of it. There should be a lot of bounced light but I didn't do it
because I don't think you're ready for that yet. Though it still pops out my reds and light values
as I mentioned in the picture.

>>5024658
>>5024655
Stuff like this is why you should be drawing in cylindrical forms with cross contours
instead. Proportions and perspective are just too wonky. Vilppu's Renaissance fig
drawing is greatly helpful for this

>>5025003
>>5025018
This is what I mean by hard lighting. You aren't ready for this yet. This kind of light is
an easy way to make things look good but you're skipping out on a lot of things. Your
style will be heavily restricted if you pursue this. You won't be able to show form unless
there's hard lights

>>5026975
>This is what I mean by hard lighting. You aren't ready for this yet.
>You won't be able to show form unless
there's hard lights

>>5027072
what?

>>5027072
I mean if he does hard lighting now, he’ll depend on it to make his art look good. So he won’t be able to show form without it, if that wasn’t clear

>>5026936
How do you do this with hard round brush /ic/?

>>5027170
Enable pressure opacity

>>5027170
you need a smudge or blur for that. round brushes look really shitty for mixing like that so it looks better/has more texture with flat brushes. you can set the width of a hard round to be a flat elliptical to simulate a flat brush, add slight size random jitter for more texture. use opacity jitter for the initial mixes then go in and blend after. this is clip studio with blend and blur blending modes

>>5024537
How does he do the color at the end? I've never understood how these people can go from gray to full color and have it not look terrible. I can only get decent looking colors when starting in color.

>>5027837
mostly layer blend modes and gradient map fuckery

i feel like its cheating because you dont really get a fine tune on color, but i also suck at color so much that it probably doesnt matter for me personally. fast and decent > long and probably not great

>>5024522
Nice "how to draw the fucking owl" tutorial anon, I rather learn with the useless sphere.

>>5025332
Even women are unable to draw a proper vagina unless they use reference.

>>5024537
This is cool, anyone know the artist name?

>>5024672
it's so hard to use a fucking reference???

>>5024973
>>5024975
>>5024970
This shit is absolutely useless. I made more progress by doing whatever I did before than following those awful non-clear """advices""".

>>5024940
>render the rest of the owl
God I hate worthless "tutorials" like this

>>5025332
Seethe harder roastie

>>5024522
>>5024537
>>5024940
>>5024970
>>5024973
>>5024975
>>5025047
>>5026920
>how to draw the rest of the owl tutorial

>>5028210
what part of this one is like that?

>>5027919
>i feel like its cheating
Hey anon, believe in yourself.

>>5028236
>>5028210
>literally the whole process laid out
You might have brain damage or learning disability

>>5028236
If anyone considers these to be "rest of the owl" type of tutorials, that means they haven't mastered even the most basic skills which would allow them to understand an explanation if it was given in the first place. They're either informative and illustrative without an explanation, or they wouldn't help you even if one was given.

>>5025096
You are mixing up halftones with shadows.

>>5028532
fucking this.
Shut the fuck up and draw

>>5028478
pyw imbecil

>>5024975
This is exactly how most ateliers teach value. Always start with the darkest values, hunt around for mid-tones0, and then fill-in the rest of the value range keeping form in mind.

It's a lot easier to bring highlights out with an eraser or different color than it is to draw them in.

If you want to get really good at grayscale value, do some Bargue plates and cast drawings

>>5024537
>Hard round with opacity jit-
why does this meme keep getting parroted?

>>5029805
>jitter
It's not jitter ass wipe, jitter just randomizes the dots of the opacity. the pen pressure is next to the fucking text that says control, which is opacity CONTROL : pen pressure.

>>5029819
common parlance is to refer to jitter as pressure in addition to being a random setting. "opacity jitter" means pen pressure enabled for opacity by every other artist or resource

>>5028532
Post Your Fucking Work

>>5024522
>practice rendering in grayscale first
>from a reference, don't even try doing this from imagination yet
>hard round with pressure sensitivity on (for opacity)
>the key is just understanding how to control the brush with the opacity and flow settings
>what worked for me is starting with low opacity and flow (20~30%) to slowly build up the correct values layer by layer, and to blend the strokes where there needs to be a smooth gradations
>raise the opacity and flow to create hard edges (or use the selection tool or eraser)
>this relationship between hard edges, soft edges in value is one of the major elements for creating realism with your brushwork
>once you learn how to do this with the hard round, you can then start experimenting with different textured brushes
>pic related is a study painted exclusively with round brush

>>5029824
That's literally not what it does lmao, opacity jitter is an entirely different function. Stop lumping it into the same thing as pen pressure. You can literally move the jitter up and it will work without penpressure. All the resources that treat it the same don't even know this. It's Opacity : control : pen pressure respectively.

>>5029830

>>5029855
t. souless

>>5029805
>parroted
When there's an actual demonstration to go along with it, it's no longer parroting.

>>5031121
show me the demo

>>5031326
>>5024537

>>5024522
Don't worry about rendering or brushwork for now. Paint ugly but with correct values. It's virtually impossible to be good with value and not be able to render.
After you're starting to attain some degree of accuracy in your values rendering is a breeze.

>>5031420
this brush has 100% opacity and no pressure involved
you can clearly see it when he blocks out the shapes and there's no layering

>>5029854
Yet it's sorted under opacity jitter, dumb fag.

now speak retard

>>5031990
any fag who says hrb is a meme should be sent this image

gonna try the stuff in the OP. i just got done making the midtone silhouette. honestly i'm not great at sketching and drawing line art, but when there's a solid silhouette i'm not bad at refining it down into something that looks half decent.

>>5024522
I watched this .gif endlessly trying to figure out how he did it (brushes and process), and i'm still tentative about trying it out for myself. Is it just like OP's picture or >>5024537?

>>5031990
hard round brush chad

>>5024634
>What is blending
>What is smudge tool
>What is wet brushes
>What is oil
>What is watercolor
>What is other software besides photoshop

Nigger, you'll never make it if you don't give yourself the freedom to fuck around with the tools to see what they do. That's why you keep falling for hard round brush meme.

>>5029843

thank you, i think you have had one of the best replies yet while people here keep arguing about "hard round" and jitter.

study is beautiful btw!

>>5032045
That's a literal hard edge brush softened with a blur or smudge brush afterwards

>>5024522
For anyone who's beginning to study value, this is incredibly useful:

Instead of using a full range of 12-13 shades of grey, begin by just using 4 values.

>Mix or pick a dark one for Extreme Shadows
>Mix or pick a less dark one for Moderate Shadows
>Mix or pick a bright one for Moderate lights
>Mix or pick a brighter one for Extreme lights
and stick to these. See pic related for an example.

Now, for everything that's lit, you can ONLY use the 2 lighter shades, and for everything that's in shadow, you can only use the darker shades.

This is important, because if you use "moderate lights" value for something that's not lit, you'll break the illusion of the painting, the brain will not be fooled because one part that is in shadow will have the same value as a part that's lit up.
Use the darkest value only for extreme shadows, and the lightest for highlights.
Block it in first, then you can blend to soften the edges of form shadows.
Keep the edges of cast shadows sharp.

You'll be surprised how good a picture can be with only four values.

As you get better, you can start mixing or picking more shades of grey.
For example, you can mix "darkest shadows" and "moderate shadows" and obtain an in-between value.

It really helps to use this method to remove clutter, since at first the student is lost when having to pick from a full set of greyscale range of values.

It's also good to start with still life rendering, with simple shapes, instead of plunging into the human body which is really complex (not difficult, complex).

>>5032401
example of works done with this method, progressively increasing the complexity of the subjects.

>>5032417
only picture no 1 is done with this method.

>>5032460
yes, it gets progressively more complex (you start mixing the values).

But i skipped a lot of steps. There's like 10 pictures i did not put in

>>5032401
Why 4 and not 3 or 5?

>>5032575
why not 9 why not 16, is just a simplification use whatever number of shades you want

>>5032575
It's a nice even number

>>5032989
It's a serious question numbnuts. I imagine 3 is TOO limited, but with 5 you can have a midtone, so I'm wondering why they don't.

>>5033612
There is no one set correct way to approach value studies. Personally everything started to click when I did a bunch of notan/two value studies (technically not notan but the word is used a lot in this context) and started thinking values in terms of beling to families or zones. When you only have a dark and a light value you have to make some very drastic choices on what to include in the dark zone or the light zone. After doing a couple of dozen two value studies and you add a third value, it feels like you have amazing range.

>>5033638
Hm. I've done some two-value pieces, I suppose I can try that.

We should make a Rendering/painting general when this thread dies tbqh. Does anyone wanna draft the OP?

I don't render

>>5033804
/Pain/t and Rendering General - Hard Round Brush edition
Previous Thread: ---
Just use the Hard Round Brush

>>5033889

lol why not, maybe we can discuss brush settings in the next thread and how they work cause a lot of people seemed confused and irritated by it in this thread.

>>5032401

also this is excellent information and i definitely saved a lot and considered new approaches with this thread, so thank you for that!

>>5033889

ill be making a mega folder with some stuff I saved from a folder that got taken down recently as well with painting videos and etc

>>5032401

xs ms ml xl

got it

whoopppeeeeeeee

>>5034187

good on you egghead

after the /video/ thread deletion we need some form of archive

>>5034190

Yeah I gotta back up and organize some shit, I hope what I have is useful for you guys, I have the whole entirety of the krenz painting course but its in chinese sadly, if we have any anon whos willing to translate that itll be awesome cause honestly the tutorials ive been watching on billibilli are waaay better compared to what I see on youtube or from art station.

>>5034187
based if true

anyone wanna critique this? there are parts that i like about it like the face and the left hand but there are other parts (everything else where the shading looks so muddled that it's like visual gibberish. maybe if i do some blending then it will look better. idk if the blacks need to be blacker, the dynamic range is wide enough that it looks alright. it also took forever which is counter to what i wanted, which was to be faster and more efficient. i mean, it is faster than what i've been doing, but it has still taken like 6 hours just to make this and it looks vastly inferior. it looks like the painting equivalent of a sketch.

is this just my life now? i can't do anything fast. fuck

>>5034214

post here brother, just made this new thread.

>>5034220
>>5034220
>>5034220

>>5034223
We are not even halfway through the thread

>>5034187
Thanks man, you have those Proko anatomy course stuff as well?

>>5029805
Did you read OP's pic?
>high opacity
>meaningful strokes and shapes
>not rubbing the same spot over and over to get a solid tone
You're doing the exact opposite.

>>5034214
>it also took forever which is counter to what i wanted, which was to be faster and more efficient
Your brush is way too small.

>>5027837
Read the original thread.
>>/ic/thread/S3845253#p3878823

>>5035193
This is great.

>>5034521

yeah, ill add that too. doesnt go over the skull and head tho

>>5035193
So no opacity on pen pressure is involved?
you just do 100% opacity to block in shapes and reduce opacity to then blend tones=?

can someone please for the love of god just post some links to good youtube videos explaining and demonstrating this hard round shit and showing it in use with pressure opacity? i have been having such a hard time gleaning any useful information about this process from images alone, i need to see it being used in real time to understand it. the video posted in one of the first posts to this thread is sped up so it's not very useful. i cannot figure out how to understand how it works and put it into practice in my own painting stuff from the image tutorials posted so far.

>>5036165
no such thing

>>5036176
there's no videos of people drawing like this? that's retarded.

>>5036165
sinix

>>5035452
That's fine, you're going to post a link here when you finish it? Thanks

>>5036224
the only things I've seen from sinix about how to use a brush is some kind of weird proprietary "dry brush" in corel painter.

>>5036239
by the way, i have tried using CSP equivalent brushes and none of them work the same as the one he uses. you can either have hard edges or soft edges but you can't start with a hard edge and turn it into soft blending because the brush shape you use is always what you get. if you have a hard rectangle for making hard edges, when it runs out of paint and you blend with it, the blending still has the same hard edge and brush shape, just with lower opacity. it looks like shit. i'd love to learn how to paint like a sculptor like he showed, but none of the alternatives work, and curiously enough, when i first saw that video i actually pirated a copy of painter that was the same year that he used in the video and for some reason, the brush he used in the video did not work the same way in the program.

>>5036165

>>5034271

>>5024523
>>5024548
i think its pretty obvious to a trained eye that you painted over a photo. Even if you move things around a little with liquefy. Maybe I'm just paranoid about looking like a fraud though

>>5036254
use Krita's wet bristle brushes, they work almost the same

crit?

>>5036346
Stop using black/grey for the shadows.

>>5034214
alright i took the criticism into account that i was using too small of a brush. someone please tell me i did this better tonight than yesterday. i don't think i'm ready yet to move onto opacity blending shit so i haven't blended anything. also i need to go to bed because i have work in the morning so i'm calling it a night now.

also i am aware that i'm not great at anatomical proportions, this is something i've struggled with for most of my life. i'm most concerned right now with improving my rendering skills, simplification and blocking of values, and stroke economy. so while i appreciate people critiquing my proportion failings, it's not what i'm focused on improving at the moment so i'm probably not going to do anything constructive with critiques regarding proportions.

>>5036431
One, you can use an even bigger brush.
Second, instead of painting value shapes up against each other, you need to simplify into the largest shapes, then paint more shapes within. For example, almost the entire left side of his face is in shade, except for that spot of triangular light under his eye. So paint one contiguous shadow shape, then paint the triangle in it.

>>5036165
why is so hard to experiment by yourself?

>>5036431
>>5036431
There's no improvement because you haven't yet figured out what to do. You are copying the shadows as lines. I am guess you're using a hard edge brush to paint them by filling them with lines. Try blocking in the shadow shapes and filling them with a selection tool.

You are mixing up your values. The darkest light should be lighter than the lightest shadow. But in the left cheek. You are using values from the light family in the shadows.

You should use the picture as an inspiration for interesting shapes rather than just copying its shadows. Look up Shapecarver's stuff.

>>5036431
You're getting stuck too much in noodly detail of the features. You want to start out much simpler. Here I posterized the reference for you with just three values to give you some idea how radical you can be in simplification. Avoid working with a white canvas for value studies, it will throw your perception off.

>>5036431
Your skill with value directly depends on your anatomy

>>5036651
troll

>>5024654
Your drawing is shit Anon, if you drawing is shit the painting will be shit.

>>5036651
You're a retard if you don't understand how understanding forms help with values

>>5024522
>>5024523
>>5024537
wtf? Teal posting in /ic/ again?

>>5036545
I think I understand to some extent now (I won't be sure until I try again tonight to see if I see improvement) but I wonder if I am getting contradicting advice from you guys, at least go me it sounds contradictory because I may be taking it too literally

>>5036457
>You can use an even bigger brush

In both posted examples of what I should be doing, the posterized one and >>5036542
There are areas where a bigger brush could be used, but there are a lot of areas where you'd have to use a small brush because key details are simply impossible to draw using a big brush and remain proportional. for example the eye on the lighter side of the face, the side of the nose on the light side of the face, the opening between the lips, and the shadow under the bottom lip.

>>5037007
>but there are a lot of areas where you'd have to use a small brush
No, this is where you use an eraser to shape your strokes down.
You scribble with your paint brush as if it were a pencil to fill a space. It's obvious when looking at the contours of your shapes. This is why there is no sense of brushwork in your painting at all.
Read the commentary. Understand what they're saying. They can't help you if you don't read.

>>5037174
I guess I don't understand how to do this in csp. I could put down a midtone with a normal brush, and then make a new layer on top and put down shadows and erase only the shadows but then you have to erase around the borders when you color outside the lines. What I've been doing is making the midtone silouette and drawing shadows and highlights using the darker color and lighter color drawing modes. This seems to work but it only draws if you are drawing in the same layer which means no erasing because that erases everything in the layer which is the whole drawing

>>5037209

>>5037209
So you're not doing what the tutorials are telling you to do, and you're wondering why things aren't turning out the same way?
You're painting in grayscale. Stop messing with color modes and just pick a tone.

>>5037229
It's not about color, it's about where and how it draws. Normal lays down paint wherever you draw. If I draw a solid midtone silouette of the thing I want to draw, like a head, and then I want to shade and highlight within that shape, and I use normal, I have to be careful to not draw outside of the lines, because it will do that. Lighter color doesn't lay down new paint, it only lightens the paint that is already there so you don't have to worry about drawing outside the lines, because it literally can't, and darker color does the same thing but for shadowing, but it will only draw on existing paint that is in the layer you are drawing on. If I lay down the midtone, and then move to a new empty later above that midtone, the darker and lighter color modes don't draw at all. I am not using color, I'm only working with grays, it's just the name of the drawing mode of the brush.

>>5037240
Good lord. Use a clipping layer.

>>5037246
I don't know what a clipping layer is, I've never heard of that, but I will look it up later when I can draw again. I'm sorry if this is testing your patience, I don't mean to be a retard.

>>5037007
use a lasso tool to paint small details

>>5037251
your method is fine, it’s not a bad idea to use lighten or darken for value studies but I think beginners should stick with one layer only, locking transparency if required

>>5037251
https://www.clip-studio.com/site/gd_en/csp/startupguide/csp_startup/CSPaint_03/Chapter03_2_1.htm

>>5036239
you didn't look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nt9fa8jZUE

ok i tried it with the clipping layer thing and drawing with the eraser and i think it went better this time, although i got completely lost with what to do with the highlights. i wonder if i should have picked a picture with less complicated forms. this was the best i could make the highlights look. the order i went it was midtone first, then shadow, and then highlights last underneath the shadow layer so that i wouldn't mess up the shadow i already drew.

>>5038347

youre still working too small, use bigger shapes to capture the forms and dont worry about making it so illustrative, remember youre trying to paint so start with big shapes first and then work toward more complexity

its a good attempt thought and i see lots of improvement, just keep working on getting those nice big shapes and separating the light and shadow families .

>>5038347
Good job, this is a step in the right direction. You should prioritize adding halftones before highlights however, that's where the magic happens of the illusion of form. Still a bit noodly with the shadow shapes and some are wrong. Try to ignore smaller shapes like the one on the upper lip and south of the triangular light on the cheek and let the shadow swallow them. You can use a gradient map with limited values in csp like I showed earlier to check your reference.

ok i think i'm back to square one now. i tried to take into consideration the sinix video and tried to do what he did with his rough paintings of two guys from the shoulders up before he did the refined painting that took up the latter half of his video, but this just feels like i've gone back to what i did here >>5036431

>use bigger shapes to capture the forms and dont worry about making it so illustrative, remember youre trying to paint so start with big shapes first and then work toward more complexity

i also tried this, but since working with such large rough forms is so imprecise, i honestly don't know where to go from here as far as making it more detailed is concerned. i can make something fine and illustrative from the get go like i did with the last one, or i can make it rough like this and the one i did two attempts ago where greater dynamic range is more easily achieved, but i don't know how to start here and refine it into being finer and more illustrative, it's like they're two separate paths and i have to go down one or the other. basically i don't understand how to combine the methodology behind achieving those two different priorities into one unified process.

it's like the structure of the whole thing has to be built from the start to prioritize either fine illustrative detail, or value complexity. i know learning is hard, but god damn this is so frustrating. why is my brain doing this. it almost makes me want to give up and just go back to the oil brush technique i was doing before where one painting takes 50 retarded hours because at least i understand that intuitively and it doesn't make want to punch a hole in the wall.

>>5038608
I've found marco bucci's understanding and painting the head pretty helpful for this even if it mostly focuses on how to draw the head actually, see if you can check out the value control and asaro head study videos.
You can always fix or change the big shape as you're working in more detail later. If heads are too frustrating I'd recommend trying to see how it goes painting easier things like basic forms or simple still lives.

>>5038637
thanks for showing me the asaro head, i think i am going to try painting that instead of real faces tomorrow. real faces are clearly too complicated for me at this juncture.

>>5038608
Dude this is a million times better than your previous attempt. Keep going, you're heading in the right direction. Don't worry about finding the perfect method for now it will all make sense eventually.

>>5036146
Look at the brush marks on top. Do those look like they have no pressure sensitivity?

at this point, the most difficult thing isn't that i'm struggling at painting, it's that i find it hard to gather the motivation to make myself paint at all.

alright, since the last attempt frustrated me so much, i wanted to try something new, which is to block things out with the polyline tool and fill in the block with the fill tool. this has felt more natural so far but i'm not sure if it's only because i have predetermined value blocks that i can just copy the shapes of 1:1. it feels like i'm not learning much about what i set out to learn, but i wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on this so far. i think this weekend i want to try real faces again using this method and see what happens, or maybe something that isn't a face like a still life subject of an animate object. i think it just as easily could end up like the attempt i did with shave-face willem dafoe where i don't know where to put the borders of a value block because everything is a gradient unless you have dramatic lighting, and how do you determine where the dividing line is inside of a smooth gradation? it's a very abstract thing to do.

>>5040944
bruh, define large shapes first (side of face/neck, front and so on) and then carve in details, I already see how the nose is slipping off

>>5040944
bro, just watch bucci's asaro head study video first and paint along that.
How are you going to use this method you're drawing from imagination? It's too difficult.

>>5040957
i tried finding his video on the asaro head but i couldn't find it. is it the one uploaded to proko?

>>5040973
Oh, nah it's from a paid course called Understanding and Painting the Head
https://mega.nz/file/pb4VTJ6L#SH0dL3-vBUCyyA_V13-vodDGUvOZ5L1pImHTXrEuqcs
Link I grabbed off warosu, should be the right one.

>>5040982
thanks

>>5040944
Continue doing what you are doing. Then draw those same heads under same lighting except without any reference. Then compare it to the reference work. If you achieve 1:1, then you have understood the asaro head and you can move on to more complicated heads.

Don't start drawing from imagination right after doing from reference. Do it after a day or at least a few hours

>>5041013
also make a conscious effort to think why one part is brighter or darker than others.

>>5040944

I want to learn how to render stuff like this, what I mean is how
>What color do they use
>How do they use masks
>What type of brush do they use
If I painted it with my skills the colors may be right but it will not be clean like that pic, I have some tutorials on exhentai but they are in japanese

>>5042113
hard round brush + blur tool some edges, but it won't matter because you lack the fundies otherwise you would know how they got the results they got just by looking

>>5042117
>but it won't matter because you lack the fundies otherwise you would know how they got the results they got just by looking
No, its mostly about in how they use the program, right now my knowledge about how to use masks, its not something about fundies its about the app usage
>hard round brush + blur tool some edges
I tried that, it was just not as clean

>>5042137
right now my knowledge about how to use masks its lacking"

>>5024537
>huge head
>dat belly button and nipples
>completely botches everything when he tries to do midtones
>dohshit coloring
Of course little beglets will eat this shit up because they don't know any better.

>>5042198
pyw

>>5042113
>What type of brush do they use
The answer is the same across the board. Hard round brush at a high opacity to start, eraser to shape, low opacity to gently blend, and some selective uses of soft airbrushing.
You're not getting the smooth results you want because you don't listen to advice. You're probably using small soft brushes at low opacity and rubbing the same spot over and over again with no thought given to stroke direction, getting uneven and uncontrolled color opacity and unclean edges. This is the problem everyone in this thread seems to be having. No amount of advice will help you if you ignore them.

>>5042113
>>5042137
basic sai like pen with pressure size on
brush with high opacity with colour blending/mixing on, could be substituted with the memey hard round
water/blending tool
occasional soft airbrush tool use
eraser

base colour with slight airbrushing or gradient, shade, clip a layer and shade darker, blur into transitions, highlights, draw more lines at colour transitions. scribble and blur as is necessary for sharper highlights. airbrush lines. stray strands on top.

honestly it really isn't hard to tell so you do in fact lack the fundies

>>5042296
I don't lurk /ic/ enough, I just come here for books and courses, I use a hard brush 100% for flat colors then use the same brush at 80% opacity for the rest, Im asking for use of masks for a cleaner work, because the eraser is not enough (its a 100% eraser btw)

>>5042354
>base colour with slight airbrushing or gradient, shade, clip a layer and shade darker, blur into transitions
This is kinda what im talking about, how do you set up this
>honestly it really isn't hard to tell so you do in fact lack the fundies
stop assuming that, I just lack knowledge about the APP not the fundies to get there

pic related is another example

>>5042429
my guy, i already broke this shit down to a reasonably specific 5 step program. poke around the program and figure out how to set things up if you're this new. or pwy, and i'll tell you how.

>>5042429
It's kinda funny you keep trying to dismiss you being called a beginner when your questions screams that you are one

>>5042438
this.
>>5042429

again, i could probably figure out how to do this shit in any program. either you're a complete tradfag transitioning to digital or you're beg. and if you were a tradfag, you wouldnt be asking how they set things up or how they use colours, you would just be looking up program guides. so you're beg.

pwy. by the way, the two examples youve posted use reasonably different brushes, guaranteed, and it's super fucking obvious.

>>5042429
>noo you lack the fundies to doo thatt
Now here is what I can see how it is used, and I have tried doing it with studies (I need to do more) the thing is that they take a long time and they don't end up as clean as pic related, one of the things I really really want to know is how some artist after doing a linework they fill the bosy with a base color so fast? I can do that wusing the magnet selection tool (and it doesn't even do it perfectly) and that takes some time, what im asking is for tips for optimizing how I color stuff
Im not asking where the midtones go, where the shadows go, where the highlights go, and of course im not asking for how the anatomy works

>>5042444
>either you're a complete tradfag transitioning to digital
yeah, 2 months in

>>5042452
ok, pwy

>>5042455
https://files.catbox.moe/vwcd5y.png
One of the things I tried with layers and erasing, I want to improve what to put in the background

>>5042446
>masks/eraser work
? It's just hard edge shading bro

>>5042468
your faces are about equivalent to the ones i drew at 13, unironically. please accept the fact that you lack fundies so that you can actually work on them, because sliding to the right on the dunning kruger chart is good for your personal development.

>>5042469
this. the last pic you posted is literally just shading with a hard pen and then blurring a little bit and maybe using a bit of airbrush here and there.

>>5042468
This is a nsfw board btw
You do lack the fundies to get there, not sure why you were denying this

>>5042469
https://youtu.be/-6ECPgA2hjg?t=176
basically this
>>5042472
Fair, but let me show you what I did the first week I got a tablet

>>5042508
So you're familiar with shading but couldn't comprehend some hard shadows in anime art?

>>5042508
drawing realism =/= (directly) drawing anime
studies/heavily referenced =/= drawing from imagination/original work

there are also other flaws with that painting tbqh. but maybe some of it's unfamiliarity. wouldn't know. haven't seen your trad.

just looking at the anime drawing, though:
the lines literally show her having two sets of collarbones or a really weird neck. the lower collarbones arent even in position.
her head is lumpy and rather rectangular. her face is all wrong. his body curves like a funhouse mirror.

>>5042514
how to do it more cleanly, hell If I have to be brief, its how to do anime shading at all

>>5042531
are these studies?
either way, look at her eyes. the uneven brows. her jaw. the incredibly blocky nose. dude, if you cant tell that those are obvious problems, you need better fundies, weebshit or not.

>>5042531
Your paintings are muddy and lack any real shapes for form. You let these rendered beg works lead you to believe you have the fundies required for the artwork you initially posted. Your anatomy is off, you clearly cant draw full bodies, muddy colors and values etc

>>5042527
>drawing realism =/= (directly) drawing anime
>studies/heavily referenced =/= drawing from imagination/original work
I understand, i have set up some time tomorow to ho a lot of studies based around some pieces of anime art I like, hoping to do better skin colors and to improve my backgrounds
>haven't seen your trad.
before I picked up the tablet, I've never painted before because I lacked paint, I learned how to paint in digital
pic related is around april

>>5042540
>>5042548
alright then

>>5042550
>>5042548
you sound doubtful. please read what the other guy said. you can spend ages polishing anything that's a study and make it look vaguely '''good'''.

look at the trad drawing you posted. there's a lump at her hip that's distended from her body. her right foot is stepping in front of her left foot, but the leg that's farther away is larger and seems closer. there are a lot of other issues, too. and if i can see this while mostly doing just weebshit and with my lacking foundation in realism, then someone who specialises in realism can probably see way better.

also, you clearly can't apply the knowledge from those studies into drawing bodies from your own imagination, from the anime picture you've posted.

>>5042587
>you can spend ages polishing anything that's a study and make it look vaguely '''good'''
Oh I didnt, those two drawings were made after the week I spent learning how to use photoshop from Ctrl+paint, the only brush I used there was a soft brush and eraser, hence why the "muddy" look of it, like pic related (that also has perspectves) issues
I already posted that drawing here on /ic/ and got the same critique a while ago, I just didn't fix it, because it is better to work and improve doing 100 works than lose my mind fixing that one
I do admit I've been reglecting my studies of still lifes and rendering because i've been draing anime, but I don't have too much time due to college so every free time I have I use it for drawing

>>5042620
forgot pic

>>5042620
yes, but even for anime, you need to know stylised fundamentals. you do not have those stylised fundamentals in place, so the line drawing beneath your colouring also looks bad.
also, if youre using the generally espoused hard round opacity jitter or whatever brush, you can paint much more cleanly than that with mostly just that and an eraser. it doesnt have to look muddy. yours is probably extra muddy because it looks to be at like 60% opacity by default.

>>5042631
Yeah I know, I ditched the soft brush a while ago, im working on having a stylised way redering yeah, but that comes with practice

>>5042639
yes, which is a matter of fundamentals.

you need to be able to just draw better in general to colour like the anime styles you wanted to know about, dude.

'setting up' the airbrushing and gradients is easy. if you're in sai or photoshop or clipstudio or krita you can look around the layer panel/right click for a clipping mask option, and you can look around for a transparency lock, and those are all the layer 'setup' options you'd ever actually need for something like this.
>>5042429
you can dump shit into folders to organise it, obviously, but it isn't necessary. the technology itself isn't hard.

>>5042641
thanks for the tips, just for you I'll draw something, so give me a reference

>>5042622
the thumbnail looks like a photograph.

>>5042650
i'm good
just do your practice

>>5042658
k

>>5042622
looks great as a thumbnail

i don't understand why this is so stupidly challenging. i'm trying to follow along withe bucci asaro head videos and i can trace over a picture perfectly fine but when i try to make a separate sketch off to the side of the structure, it looks all wrong

>>5042720
you trace it, but you didn't understand what you were doing

>>5042724
i do understand what the structures are and where the lines are, but when i try to draw what i see as it's own separate thing without any context surrounding what i'm drawing, it gets all fucked up. my sketching has been like this as long as i can remember, everything always looks square and rectangular and flat.

>>5042726
because of that, when you are tracing are you are doing those lines a 3D dimension, then those steps you did emulate them in a separate thing, If you traced a circle then draw a circle

>>5042740
are you saying "if you can trace a line over an existing shape, then just draw the exact same line on it's own in an empty void"? that's what i tried to do and look how it ended up. if i had the ability within me right now to do that, then i would have.

if i was just drawing the silhouette of a head, i could probably more accurately put shapes inside of it, but that's not what he's doing in the video and i'm trying to follow along with what he's doing. it feels like every time i try to do my own thing to make the process feel a little more intuitive, it's met with "no you're doing it wrong, do it more basic than that" so after so many times of hearing this, i think "well if i did this thing it would contextualize the shape so i could draw it more accurately" but then i remember every other time i've tried to do something that was my own idea to make the process easier to comprehend and more accurately compare, and people tell me i'm doing it wrong, i'm not doing it rudimentary enough and my process is too complicated.

like for example, when i was a teenager i figured out that it was much easier to make a circle if i first drew a square, and then cut the corners to make an octagon, and now you can just subdivide it into a nice smooth round circle rather than just manifesting a circle straight out of thin air, because when you do that, it always ends up as a non-concentric blob. i just want to fucking do some shit to add some context so i can see if a line is wrong or a shape is wrong instead of flailing around in the dark and never getting anything right, but that's not how it is in the tutorial, that's now the instruction i've been getting in this thread. "just draw the circle" and i draw a bunch of blobs and get mad at myself and think well if i subdivided a square into an octagon into a circle then i could do it. "no, just draw the circle". it needs to first be contextualized so that there's something to directly compare it to

>>5024522
Anon, you can't break down things into shapes if you never knew the shape to begin with, imagine drawing the torso not knowing theres a ribcage under there, It's hard. That's why we study anatomy, and paint landscapes and sketch environment. Knowing the basics is just one thing in the path you're taking.

>>5042817
>Anon, you can't break down things into shapes if you never knew the shape to begin with
Nonsense. With basic training in observational drawing skills you can break anything your eye sees into shapes.

>>5042777
Then fucking draw how you want to. I think your traces look accurate, you just didn't finish the drawing so there literally is no context, of course it looks blocky. Who's telling you not to draw your own way? people here? Who cares about the right and wrong way, I never do gestures or boxes or anything, it works for me. I can even draw a circle.

>>5042777
Just learn the plane seperations man, worry about that shit when you reach drawing the full face again later.

>>5042720
>>5042777
Painting comes after learning to draw. You don't need to have mastered drawing, but you need a workable understanding of it.
This thread is about a specific kind of painting procedure. Go read your first Loomis book instead.

>>5042658
hey YOU, what do you think of THIS (I did this a while ago)