/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Does sculpting help with drawing? I have a fuckton of plasticine.

>>5149707

What do you think

>>5149711
yes, but then you need to learn both sculpting and drawing with is more things than just drawing, if you want to sculpt go for it, if you're going to use sculpting solely for the purpose of learning drawing then skip it

I tried to animate mostly to grind line confidence and maybe work on 3D forms but holy shit rotating something in 3D is hard. Should I scrap the second half?

>>5149729
I think it did help my line confidence though. I eyeballed basically all the perspective because I can't figure out how to add extra layers in CSP animations which is part of why it looks like ass

WHAT A LIFE

>>5149712
well actually...

>>5149740
locked

>>5149725
I just thought it might help "feel the form" and have a solid 3D model of a human body in my mind

>>5149715
beg but nice

>>5149712
cute, something is wrong with the left eye/ear part

how do I get rid of these crappy line endings?

guys don't enable schizofriend

>>5149814
I dunno man, check the minimum width setting? Does it happen with every drawing tool or just that one?

>HELP I HAVE BEEN DRAWING FOR 2 WEEKS AND I AM STILL TERRIBLE
2 WEEKS WASTED
I AM A TALENTLESS CUR
A CUM-STAIN ON THE SOCK OF COLLECTIVE HUMANITY, BEING LICKED BY THE SCRUFFY FAMILY DOG OF MISFORTUNE AND SOAKED IN THE CANINE SALIVA OF FALSE PROMISES

>>5149831
Lol

>>5149729
>>5149735
Oh right, some more info I guess. I know that everything always has 3 vanishing points but that the number you can see determines perspective. So rotating around the y axis would put it in 2 point perspective and rotating about x puts it in the other 2 point perspective. I was gonna say that I wasn't sure how to draw it out but I'm pretty sure I got it after writing it out.
Any critiques on the first half of the animation though?

>>5149831
Kek

>>5149831
You need to draw for 4 months before I can confirm you're a talentlet

got an artist 15.6 pro yesterday
I'm gonna start drawing again

>>5149729
Nice. Develop the second part its good for practice

How do I go about learning anatomy and proportions? Most of the YT videos I've seen go into detail about different bones and muscles and they throw around a hundred latin names for these bones/muscles and I forget it five minutes I'm finished with the video.
>OH AND THE PEEPEEPOOPOO BONE IS CONNECTED TO THE CUMBALLS BONE, THIS OTHER ONE IS CALLED ASFWEKWEUFHK AND IS CONNECTED TO FQWNFIEWUFE
I downloaded Sycra's simplified anatomy chart, but simply re-drawing something won't help me learn how human anatomy works. Do I approach it all at once so that I can get a better picture of how everything works together or do I study everything separately? As in, learn about forearm first, then the legs, then the feet, etc.

>>5149922
have you tried reading the one stop beginners guide on the fucking stick you degenerate lazy reader

Others do this on their first attempt

Meanwhile I fail to grasp it

i'm not really sure if this is the thread to ask, but can anyone recommend a photoshop brush set? or multiple

the links to brushes on the wiki are all dead

>>5149924
I have. It gives me a shitton of books that I can't buy or find online. Coomis hasn't helped me at all. The only way I started getting a grasp of how to draw a head was from watching YT videos. My heads are still shite, but compared to what I used to draw a month or so ago it's a big improvement.

>>5149922
>give me an easy answer to all my problems woe is me :(
stop complaining and fucking study you loser
youre really gonna sit there and act upset when something doesnt click with you immediately? art takes patience, if you have no patience youre going to fucking flounder, simple as
>>5149948
thanks for saving my dynamic sketching study bro
glad i could earn a place in the 4month schizo's hard drive

>>5149978
>stop complaining and fucking study you loser
Nice reading comprehension, mate.
I didn't ask anyone for a shortcut, I'm just asking people about their experience with learning the anatomy and what worked for them.
>art takes patience, if you have no patience youre going to fucking flounder
Water is wet, fire is hot. Thanks.

>>5149983
youre complaining about all the complex long ass muscle names and how you cant retain them and im telling you to stick to it, because yes it's a lot to take in and yes it's difficult but that's the name of the game
closest i could recommend is just learning constructive anatomy from someone like hampton but youre not gonna be safe from all the fancy latin names

>>5149974
Watched the Steve Huston head part 1?
Free on youtube. Full one on the mega

>>5149974
b-ok/mega/torrent

I summon 4 month fag

>>5149978
Mr obvious is on a roll today, fuck off human
get one thing right and youre the next picasso, get off it

>>5149974
>>5149922
You never gonna make it without knowing all the body parts and their latin names.

>>5149922
I've not looked at anything else so I don't know how it compares, but I've been going through Proko's anatomy and he does an alright job breaking it down.

>>5149950
>>5149948
do this,
shading adds volume,
fabrics add depth,

>>5150020
one day you will

>>5149922
>>5149974
i know what you mean, your goal right now is to slowly chip away at it like a sculptor
at some point you will become familiar with the names. my fav is gluteus maximus...if you know what i mean lol

>>5149948
>>5149950
>>5150098
so, is this (pic related) supposed to be some exercise?

>>5150112
Even you're getting it and I'm not
Talent is real

>>5150112
yeah, putting contour lines on organic forms
>>5150108
great work dude, nice balls too

>>5150108
>>5150138

>>5150108
i like the shapes man, well rendered ,
same with you dude >>5150071

>>5150112

yes its a practice for a shapes three domentions, to progress it further look at the above references to see how its actually applied

@ALL
>>picture related

>>5150098
>do this,
>shading adds volume,
>fabrics add depth,
and how is that going to help me with the exercise

>>5150108
Since his toro feet are not visible, I understand the mistake, but think about the surface he's standing on. It's all messed up.

the learning shapes part (line work) will help you to draw the figure
the shading part will add volume to it and help the viewer to see it like here >>5150071


>(_8^(1)
> forest sakes man reduce the size

>>5150149
Thanks, I don't think my rendering is that great but remind myself it's not what i'm trying to focus on right now.
I just find it easier to block something in as grey instead of trying to communicate with linework alone.

>>5150149
pardon my ignorance but whats the point of resizing?

>>5150247
getting more pixels to work with

Is Lazy Nezumi worth buying? I think most newer version of Photoshop and Krita and whatever do most of what Lazy Nezumi does right? Or are there other features that make it worth having?

>>5150241
you do the shading because you know where the lines are

>>5150247
we are looking at it from PC...the img will take up the whole screen and i wanna close it faster ehhhhh

>>5150166
anon practice drawing ellipses and draw the full ellipse going into the back of the forms ("draw-through them").

point of this exercise imo is to start visualizing in 3d and to start feeling the form

>>5150115
I don't think I'm supposed to interact with the schizo but just... Touch a vase, buy a dildo and touch it, just, touch round shit and look at it. If you can't feel the form then literally FEEL it

autodesk sketchbook or krita?

>>5150287
paper

>>5150289
I don't want to contribute to climate change.

>>5150251
Never heard of it but I checked out the page. Looks like you can do most of what it does in CSP with vector layer+stabilizer
>>5150287
>>5150289
Autodesk is a good company, haven't used that one though. Krita is decent and free just try it and see if you like it. I mainly do digital but trad is so fucking comfy
>>5150290
Kek

>>5150290
Before electricity was a thing and paper was the hot new shit there wasn't global warming, go paper go green

>>5150287
i like sketchbook for drawing and krita for painting. sketch something up in autodesk then save and import it into krita works wonders for me. both are great and free. i mainly use these two programs for art and never really touch photoshop unless doing hardcore photo editing/compositing or maybe to do some fancy post-processing and effects on my art at the end.

>>5150320
Yeah, I feel like SketchBook is more comfy for sketches.

Don't ask why I haven't started the lips. This is oil on some regular oil sketchbook paper.

does anyone else do this? good for practice of whatever

>>5150420
nice
do you know what paper should be used for alchahol based like for copic markers? ty

>>5150020
fuck... well, I guess I have to start learning latin now.

>>5150071
Thanks, I'll give Proko's anatomy a go.

>>5150098
Cheers. I'll keep grinding then. And I definitely know what gluteus maximus is

>>5150435
Thank you.. Strathmore 500 Mixed Media. Copic also makes paper specifically for their markers.

>>5150446
thanks, looks pricy, i was thinking "maybe i can download it " lol

>>5150440
hehehe seee you already know something :P

I know the linework is shit, I'm just curious if I'm at least getting the perspective sorta right. Are the lines even straight or converging properly? I keep grinding ellipses and lines and they look fine by themselves, but as soon as I try to use them in perspective drawing it all goes to shit and I start missing VPs and getting curved lines. Do I just need to slow down or do I need to grind more?

>>5150276
Already tried, I don't get it anon, I'll post some later

>>5150273
I'll post some spheres later, can you help me in reviewing them?

how much is all the technical perspective stuff needed if I just want to make natural landscapes with no building or other manmade right angle structures?

>>5150487
Shit, forgot to resize. Sorry.

not really sure where to post this or how to articulate it, so i'll just ask a question/pose a scenario

if i asked for you to show me an image that best represented 2000-2010s deviantart, what would you show me? there's a specific look that i have in mind. i'm wondering if anyone else visualizes this the same way as me.

i'll give some clues: color choices tend to be "primary" colors like your basic ROY G. BIV, pillow/button shading, over use of effects like gaussian blur, bizarre gradients, subjects are usually 90s cartoon characters, etc.

"furry" isn't an answer since it's not an image. you've got to show an example. but "furry" doesn't really describe it, anyways.

>>5150487
trunk looks a little weird, but i don't know a lot about cars

i can't give any worthwhile critiques, but i think you should continue pursuing art in full earnest

>>5150502
bob ross was basically "further is smaller, closer is bigger" and it got him 99% of the way

>>5150521
I see what you're talking about. The tilt is supposed to indicate a lip spoiler, but I guess it kinda looks like a trunk that's askew.

Can somebody help me with Jill's face from Resident Evil 3 ? I'm struggling with her nose from this angle,

How do you, as someone who has drawn enough to produce stuff you're okay with, return to improve your fundamentals without being incredibly bored?

>>5150440
I pirated the whole video course off the big mega folder floating about.

Why do most niggers draw with Bic ballpoints?

>>5150536
also, the hood looks like it's concave, like someone sat on it, and it "bubbled" inwards

lastly, while i know this is just a sketch, a path to improvement would be tracing over it and only retaining the contours that you want to show the viewer

right now, there are lots of lines/contours. my mind tries to follow the thickest lines since those have emphasis, but sometimes the thinner lines look better. maybe average them out? pic related is where i like another line

sometimes when we have fatigue and we're doing chicken scratch, it's easy to get into this habit where we follow the lines we like the best, but our viewer won't know what those ones are unless we emphasize them correctly, if that make sense

>>5150138
>>5150149
Thank you! That's really nice

>>5150177
Thank you; in retrospect I should have revisited the feet. The right eye was giving me trouble for some reason too.

>>5150557
turn it into a finished piece
like, fill up a page of cubes, as if someone spilled thousands of six-sided dice onto a table

>>5150555
maybe like this
on your drawing the nose forward too much, unless she is a stereotypical Jew? lol

Drew my friend’s centipede

does /ic BEG like ducks?
whats the official animal for /ic?
>> furries need no apply

>>5150563
sketches are not meant to be erased, also its a sketch

>>5150649
very nice

>day 2 of having fun with a loomis

>Just draw without looking at the paper while you follow the edges of your hand bro
>All you have to do is move your eye at the same time you move the pencil no big deal :)
Is blind contour drawing supposed to be this anxiety inducing and physically painful?

>>5150086
>learn your fundamentals
Yeah. Pretty much. Didn't really want to post it since I couldn't even really finish the damn thing.

>>5150643
Thanks bro

>ib4 u r stupid
heya guys i am the tracing guy and wanna have a bit of fun
could you give me something to trace or like your fav art piece
should be productive, ty

"it would go against nature not to learn something from doing a study" - some Dude from /ic

>>5149707
Hey guys, I went in and did a second attempt on the drawing from yesterday. I followed your guys' advice to focus, analyze, and drawing the lines and doing it once. And to avoid symbol drawing. I also rotated the picture for you guys to compare it better.

>pic related

>>5150695
Here draw this. I'm trying to draw it as well.
>tracing
Isn't that kind of pointless?

>>5150697
I fucked up on the shoulders and head and also I drew the hands that I didn't do on my last attempt. I gave it my best shot


>pic related my first attempt

>>5149922
I think that the only thing that you need to remember at first is the rough shape. so you can be able to recognize it in the reference. after that every time that you use a reference you will reinforce you knowledge.

>>5150697
You should probably move on, it looks fine. Just make sure to take the skills you learned and apply it to everything you analyze and do more analytical art

>>5150699
Might as well post my current attempt.

>>5150649
nice man good stuff
>(2.74 MB, 4032x3024) for 4chan are you mental?

>>5150681
:D

>>5150658
Looks good, beg smurf??

>>5150652
>>5150713
Thanks guys. Sorry for the size I took the pic and uploaded with my phone

>>5150112
>>5149948
what would inorganic shapes exercise look like?

>>5150715
nah, actual beg. Just good at copying

>>5150715
>smurf
Wut

I'm honestly lost and can't understand what to do after learning perspective, I just want to draw buffed dudes and cute girls.

Any good video guides you guys recommend?

>>5150748
video games with matchmaking has people create new "smurf" accounts so they're matched with actual beginners. like mogging for betas, if you will

>>5150707
Thanks for responding anon, a few anons told me to check out Keys to Drawing and Drawing on the Right side of Brain. I'm following the sticky right now, so the next book Im going to check out is Fun With A Pencil that most anons here give a lot of shit about. Are criticisms true?

Give me something to draw
>>5150723
The orange perspective book about machines

>>5150784
https://mega.nz/folder/gZ0iwSLB#8rPfYlho_alFZ1Nj3Rq6Bw
clone it for your own good

>>5150699
>>5150710
here's my tracing

>>5150812
you want me to draw this or are asking for something to draw, or both :D

>>5150834
Well, can't really say much for a rough sketch.

I was going for a Guernica meets saturn devouring his son kind of thing I don't like the empty space in this, does it make the picture look lazy?

drew from imagination for once

>>5150831
thankyousir

>>5150844
yeahhh its a rough sketch, cant finish anything lol

I can't determine why this looks wrong to me. Ignore the shitty inking, I need practice. The main issue I have is the shape of the head, but I cant pinpoint exactly how to fix it.

posted this in old thread fuck
tell me how to not suck

Anyone here have experience painting in grayscale, then converting to color? Do you use the gradient map method, or the overlay layer? Which one is better?

>>5151006
The most glaring thing here is the overreliance on smudge tools, it just looks bad. The shading is all messy and all over the place, if you want to paint something you need to block out colors and shade with a brush, not do whatever you did for the whole picture. If you stop doing that your drawing will automatically look miles better.
The hair has no sense of direction and cohesion, it looks like a bunch of lines that don't make sense.
Take a step back, think about how things work, and redo your stuff, because the drawing itself isn't that bad but the way you painted is atrocious.

>>5150997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T7cDY7YDsg

>>5149707
Demon I’m working on. I think the pose is a bit strange but I really want advice on my rendering so far value wise because it’s a weaker point of mine but any critique would help

Which brush do you use to basic drawing on photoshop?

>>5149814
You have tapering lines, it should be a simple fix of going to your "line size" settings and making it uniform instead of a diagonal

>>5150997
you top of the head curves up way too much, his ears are too high, his nose is drawn from a frontal perspective despite his head clearly being turned by the lack of his left ear, too much space between his nose and mouse and too little between his ears and nose. furthermore, his left eye should be closer to the side of his face (from viewing perspective) due to the angle of his face

>>5150487
chasy needs to be equal distance to floor at all points
The front half of your car in reality represents 80% of the car in your picture.
Front wheel area looks warped forwards/right and down
The cars quite warped in a lot of places.

Keep going you'll get closer next time.


For your line straightness, this is why digital art is good. YOu just do a stroke, then control Z if your stroke is whack.
,
I'm not familair with perspective art but i got autism so i reckon i would be pretty good at it. YOu could try to do the perspective lines with intent. For instance you could have the first lline floor, second half way up the wheel, 3rd top of the wheel, 4th start of windows and 5 as the roof. should be easier to think it out in your head

>>5149922
just do one muscle a day

I can't do arms or legs.

>>5149707
WIP

>>5151119
what make you /beg/'s draw like this

>>5151131
Part 2

>>5151132
dunno feels natural for me, I'm just a trash shitter that should just go and read loomis.

>>5151137
in the same boat as you anon, except just the ower legs and arms and elbow

>>5151135
Is dat some void coomer?

Attempting to learn body proportions for cute girls, it's scratchy as hell, left is traced over from magicpotion and right is my attempt at recreating it with new pose.

Help with: iris bath scene

>>5151168
What is she from?

FUCK I had to draw this from imagination because I couldn’t find any references online and I have no clue where to put the head, I’ve already erased so many times FUCK it looks so bad

Can I have some Critics and comments?

>>5151167
Well, the right (non-tracing) side is a bit stiff. It looks like you’re doing a good job with proportions, but really do some over exaggerated gesture lines before you start with the nitty gritty contours and proportions. It’ll feel weird or like you’re over doing the gesture lines, but you kinda have to do that, or else the life of the character won’t come out. It’ll be dulled down as you add the contour lines anyway, so try not to worry about over doing it, just try until you find a middle ground.

>>5151187
Took me a second to discern what was what, and what the drawings even were. The lighting is nice, maybe it’s just because the skin color is so close to the background color that I couldn’t find their faces at first. Also, unless the bow ties are crooked or leaning to the left, they wouldn’t be showing both sides like that, towards the viewer. Not anything huge, and I understand why you did it, but just figured I’d point it out because I’m an asshole

how should I go through loomis? do I read and do the examples over and over until I get it right or do I just try to get it as right as possible before moving on to the next?

>>5151170
Ruby Gloom

>>5151188
That's interesting for gesture, didn't even think about it, I just did a slightly curved line. Good to know proportions look good. Thank you.

>>5150835
The latter?

i love being beg
i feel no chains on me

>>5150847
I really like your style Anon

>>5151275
thats means a lot, thanks fren <3

how to become a mechfag anons? time to take the robertson pill?

>>5151167
lmfao your tracing looks better than the original. anyways this was a fun pose thank you anon

>>5151293
Just slap some pistons on a figure drawing

>>5151187
Not /beg/
Why here?

Tryin to do Beth harmon but feels weird. Any advice?

trying to draw a ref portrait from nma and I'm absolutely fuckung confused on how to go from constructed sketch to finished, rendered drawing. I can't keep drawing lines everywhere... but I have no idea how to "draw with light" or whatever. What is supposed to come next after you sketch something out?

Serious and actually important question
how do I force myself to stop getting up real close to the screen like it's a piece of paper
my eyes are actually dying

>>5151339
I'm good at rendering, I fail at the most basic fundamentals

>>5151071
Thank you so much

>>5151362

>>5151415
Chicken scratching again

Anyone have any advice for some basic digital workflow stuff? Do people use layer masks to hide overlapping objects? Or when rendering? I could see them being useful but it feels slow and clunky.

>>5151078
Okay so something is seriously wrong with my ability to place circles in perspective. I used to be decent at it but maybe that was just my perception. I'm aligning the minor axes properly I think, but they always come out too narrow.
Also, I tried digital, but it's not for me. The tablet I have is pretty small and the way it maps to the screen magnifies error. I could zoom in, but then I lose sight of my workspace. Thank you for the feedback though. Very helpful :)

>>5151358
Okay. So at first at this stage I like to faintly erase the lines. This gives me a neat structure to follow. What you'll realize as you move to a more rendered, realistic product is lines often aren't really lines, but rather shadows. Since a lot of drawing is observation, you'll need to look at the reference/other reference material and try to gain a sense of how different shades convey different depths. There starts to emerge a feeling of layering, so to speak, and as you go along it the drawing will have more of a body.

I'm assuming you want to finish that with charcoal/pencil. If you want a finished product by pen or other mediums advice will vary. But much of what I said applies to it all.

Is this body photoshopped, can real bodies look like this it looks like a stylized body

>>5151467
I have a few different hardness graphite pencils, or pen. I'm /beg/ as fuck so anything will be valuable experience. I'm trying to imagine how to start actually drawing the lines and theres things I'm not sure of.

the biggest are:

how do I know what should be a line that I draw with some weight (or with pen?) and what should be part of the rendering

How to render with pencils? go from etched out cave painting to something with depth. the only way I know how to. convey shape right now is lines.

How do I even begin the hair?

Thanks for the advice you've given anon

Newfag here is there a thread for requests?

>>5151485
never seen a woman irl? Yes that body is real and women look like that when they are young

>>5151546
Nice. Maybe try to exaggerate the perspective a little bit more on the closest and furthest paws.

I posted this in SQT yesterday but no response, so I'll try here:

I'm trying to practice perspective. I'm getting hung up on trying to incorporate multiple vanishing points. all the tutorials i see are about 1,2,3 point perspective which is fine when everything is perfectly aligned (e.g. buildings on a street). but how to i place vanishing points for objects rotated in various directions on various axes (e.g. several dice being thrown in the air)?

Any advice or link to a helpful article/tutorial would be much appreciated.

>>5151562
People always say drawing boxes is a meme. Then they wonder why perspective is so hard.

Man, do still-lives. Learn intuitive perspective. If you have to measure everything out with a ruler you're going to waste a lot of time. Draw hundreds and hundreds of objects, not just figures. Learn how perspective actually affects things in real life and how your eye sees vanishing points.

5 months anon here, tried to draw one of the hands from that thread using the Keys to Drawing thing, is that a good time for my attempt? Is it cheating since its not construction or does it count if I do it like in Keys to drawing? Is there potential in me to improve? Please help me

Please, what should I use to improve
>>5151580
Reference

>>5151580
>>5151581
Which resources should I ditch? Which ones to keep, I've been making a new list but I can't afford to waste time

>>5151580
Learning to see accurately is the first step to constructing properly. That's why people recommend Betty Edwards and Bert Dodson around here as the first book. I'm happy you like your drawing and aren't scribbling it out :)

Is it the that crabs have more fun than the rest of us and fun is all that really matters

>>5151580
I messed up the mass below the thumb, so that;s why the space between the inner thumb and the red shape on the other finger weren't quite lining up
>>5151588
So observation really is key, I'll try the rest of the hands later then
How can I speed up my learning process?

a basic still life, obviously i have work to do on sizing things properly but for only learning for a week i'm glad with the progress
havin fun

>>5151553
Yeah I’ll do that tomorrow, just noticed the size relation to the back claws, I want the front claws to be huge

>>5151598
do have a question though, in this chapter kistler says draw your middle line slightly longer than the other two (makes sense, it's closer)
then he says to connect the 3, referencing the lines above. that doesn't make too much sense, because if they were in the *exact* same direction they'd fall below the two short vertical lines. am i missing something here?

where can i learn how to render properly? whatever tutorials i try i always end up with muddy blurry shit

>>5151613
fuck, i understand now, please forgive me

>>5151495
>>5151358
there was an attempt at lining and blocking light depths and hair. how did i do? where do i go from here for a portrait? Lol fucking love being /beg/ this is fun

>>5151614
I think your issue is you're not refining, you're stuck in blocking mode, where you lay in rough blocks of color to define basic forms and stuff.

There's a hundred different ways to polish after that, but it's just a slow and careful process of using the base you've laid down and refining with smoother strokes, and being conscious of the edges and forms. Also, you don't need to over-render stuff, you can get by extremely well with just a single shadow/midtone/highlight value. What I tend to do for most materials is just lay in a base color, paint in hard shadows, and then usually apply an edge highlight. Then I tend to go back in with some other variant colors with an opacity and texture brush and break up the surface. So if I'm painting brown leather, it's just a matter of laying down a base, picking out the edges, and then mixing in some greens, purples, blues, etc. that I think break up the surface and make it interesting. After that, I usually add in random marks, cuts, scratches, blemishes, etc. because the more you can break up the look of the surface with color that isn't your midtone, the more real it will feel. You can push things even farther if you really want with lots of polishing and blending, but I'd worry about just getting comfortable defining your forms and edges first.

I use a rough textured chalky brush which adds some nice noise to the texture, which you can use to your advantage for things like leather, metal, rough cloth, etc.

>>5151580
On the right, I see a lot of interesting shapes, but I don't see a whole lot of understanding of the construction of the forms being translated to me. I see a representation of a hand but I don't get the sense you are actually building a drawing of a hand from scratch, but rather trying to copy the edges and then fill in backwards.

Focus on construction, build your forms on the paper, really focus on understanding each piece of the whole. Not just where the two terminating edges of the wrist or finger or palm are, but what does that form really feel like in 3D? It's easy to copy high-contrast shadows from a photo, but can you define visually why they are the shape they are? How does each finger break down into smaller shapes?

This sounds tedious and complex, why do all this if you're just copying a reference? It's because eventually you won't have the reference and you'll need to create this idea from your head. And when you understand both what you're doing, and why the subject looks and feels the way that it does, then you can take those concepts and apply them elsewhere.

The reference doesn't matter, what matters is are you actively understanding it and are you making conscious, directed choices or are you just copying and hoping that with enough copying you'll get "there" one day?

>>5151614
I find Ctrl + Paint's tutorials to be handy, but he specializes in Photoshop.

Main character for Web novel

>>5151636
Woops posted the big one heres the small one

>>5151638
No critique will ever help this.

>>5151640
Thats not very nice anon

>>5151638

>>5151644
I know I just unintentionally do shit like that I also capitalize random letters in sentences when I write the out for example
>Me And Sally went to The BeAch
I've just always done it subconsciously when I write shit out

what drawing tablets does /beg/ use? i was lurking in /dtg/ and there's so many accusations of shilling that i don't know if any of them can be trusted.

>>5151651
Wacom One creative pen display

>>5151651
XP Pen 15.6 Pro

Anyone know where i can find reference for each part of the body?

Thoughts? This was my first attempt at a more realistic fanart.

>>5151657
anatomy for sculptors

>>5151660
miko deserves better

>>5151179
It’s been hours, I’ve been going back and forth between breaks and trying again. I’m gonna neck myself pal

>>5150799
Different anon.
Don't do right side of the brain. Keys and Rights side are better, i prefer keys because it's not filled with pseudoscience.

Do keys and the loomis book at the same time. If you prefer no to bounce between books, do keys first.

>>5151671
don't fall in love with your work anon. Put a head on it a move one. Remember, as a /beg/, your work will never be that good.

>>5151678
God bless you

>>5151679
i want to cum on her face and see how it would dribble down where her chin should be

Today's doodle. I'll probably continue working on this one for another day for once since there is a lot I want to add and fix.

>>5151722
that's cool but I really wish there was more going on in the center. maybe some kind of hanging banners? clotheslines?

>>5151722
You need to work with planar grids if you're going to attempt stuff like this. There's absolutely no way to just eyeball all the perspectives, and there's no point in continuing this picture if you're going to fail to actually understand them properly. You're only going to cement bad habits.

Start over with proper guides.

What are some good channels on Youtube?
What are some ones to avoid?

>>5151377
By forcing yourself to not. Every time you get close to it just back up

How do i draw faster?
I spent nearly 2 hours on just the lineart and it's not even that good.

>>5151780
Why is being faster important?

>>5151837
because i spend 2 hours on lineart for a simple drawing wheni could have colored and be done with a drawing by then.

What is generally the work flow to get to drawing at a competent level.
What are the steps one should take from the first day of drawing?
Is there a good guide?
Like books to read, how to practice, ways to think etc.

>>5151850
lol drw lomis fget

>>5151562
Every object naturally has 3 vanishing points, perspective is determined by how many you can see. The ones that sit on the horizon line matter the most. When you rotate an object you're just moving its vanishing points along the horizon line. You should practice drawing rotated boxes till you can get a feel for them being rotated at various angles so you can just sketch them and have it look natural enough
https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/117014/at-what-point-does-1-point-perspective-become-2-point-perspective

>>5151846
That doesn't make any sense. You're a beginner, so speed doesn't matter. What matters is learning skills, accuracy, and a command of the tools. There's no sense in trying to draw super fast if you know nothing because all that means is you make mistakes super fast. That's like picking up a guitar and asking how you can learn to play fast right away, and assuming you'll be able to learn chords, scales, and songs after that. It doesn't make sense.

>>5150658
what are your current levels of fun?

>>5151879
I spend all day on a single piece when i could working on multiple things.
I don't even have enough time to color it
i don't want to do only one thing a day.

where to go after 30 days btw? skimming through the chapters it looks like he only covers one and two-point perspective, and from what i've read i need a good understanding of rotating basic shapes in three dimensions+perspective before worrying about figure drawing.

Some days you feel good about your WiP's and others you don't.

Two steps forward and three steps back.

Where on here can I do a request?

>>5151928
A request? You want someone to draw something for you?

>>5151941
Yes

>>5151951
You can make the request to yourself and it will be done in approximately whenever you feel ready drawing it.

>>5151915
is she supposed to be falling or standing on her right leg? either way it looks like an awkward middle ground between the two. if she's supposed to be standing on her right leg the center of gravity's all off

>>5151951
You can try one of the draw threads in the other boards or pay someone to draw for you other than that no one is going to do it.

>>5151119
>>5150555
>>5151636

>>5151962
i think they're sitting on a bench

>>5151991
oh
well if thats the case the perspectives all fucked, her legs are on two different planes of being compared to her arms

>>5151495
With black pen:
You usually achieve depth by cross hatching, and varying thickness of the pen. Unless you're working with a nib for the drawing, where you can vary thickness by simply applying pressure on the nib, you'll need to reinforce certain lines and make them thicker - and some thinner (by inclining the pen to "scratch" the paper, or using thinner/thicker pens). follow artist who do this a lot - examples that come to mind are takehiko inoue and kentaru miura, but just Google cross hatching faces. And notice what they do, copy it, repeat. I really think the best way to get this is practice and observation.

Remember with faces, with pen LESS IS MORE. Don't make the mistake of putting too many lines, you NEED white, or the drawing will look like a overdone mess..much of ink is knowing when to stop.

With hair, and this applies to both pencils and pen, think of it as volume, not individual strands of hair. It's clumps youre drawing, so try to get that the direction and feel, then fill it up (dark parts first imo), and always, always, colour/shade in the direction the hair is going. Finish individual hairs at the end with the pen/pencil for a more realistic look.

reading "Freehand figure drawing for Illustrators" right now and I think it's one of the best figure drawing books.

So I failed? Am I just wasting my time, fuck
>>5151632
So I failed? God fucking dammit
I know I FUCKING KNOW
I cant construct a hand, I did it like Keys to drawing says, so mine would be the worst attempf on that thread huh
I dont get construction anon, I really dont

Are there any software that can help simulate lighting? I'm thinking of something like a 3d model and a movable light source.

>>5152042
You're symbol drawing the entire everything, go back to the drawing board. Literally.

>>5149707
Jan 2020 anime girl on motorcycle vs 2021 anime girl on motorcycle. Is my progress stagnant? Do I need to do something drastic to improve my improvement?

>>5152066
Use blender?

>>5151614
>russian
GMI

>>5152072
that's not what symbol drawing means

>>5152072
pyw

>>5152044
I think Photoshop has some features to let you add normal maps as masks to interact with the lighting filters, and supports just adding 3D objects in a drawing even though it crashes half the time.

but if you just want to practice things, just move the lights in blender.

>>5152088

I've gotten to the point where I feel okay(ish) about my art but my understanding doesn't feel dynamic. It's kind of like I'm just imperfectly copying shit and/or making elaborate symbol drawings, as opposed to actually understanding structure and form. How do I unironically start feeling the form? Help.

I don't understand, I have to copy from reference in order to git gud but how am I learning anything if all I do is mindlessly copy? How am I going to think about the forms and values and shapes when they're all right there in front of me?

>>5152104
try drawing something other than a floating head.

>>5151962
Sitting actually.

Haven't put in the lounge yet.

>>5152110
And how does this fix the issue of xerocopying?

>>5152107
> mindlessly copy
just don't be mindless kek

>>5151638
Learn your goddamn stroke order. Your か looks like shit.

>>5151485
Implants perhaps. Those don't sag and act natural, especially cheap ones, just look like fucking baloons glued in place of booba.

>>5152118
>>5152104
Construct stuff without reference. That will show you what you don't understand.

>>5151485
uhhhhhh ..... sauce......?

every time I draw a face from the front the eyes and chin end up warped and assymetrical,
I can't flip traditional, anyone know how to avoid this?

>>5151988
I like it

did quick morning practice w/ the drawabox texture section.
first time trying. will do more later.
Did a rock face and bearded dragon skin.
what can I improve? the issues I had with rock face was trying to choose what to include/being able to tell the difference between shadow vs rock color.
with the bearded dragon I faced some issues trying to define the spikes which are clear in photo, but harder to define with shadows only.

>>5151485
Booba

hello any idea how i should be shading in digital like tradtional
i'm beg but I know my fundamentals of light and shadow but they just look too mechanical and i can't progress through my studies because of that .
any help ?

>>5152073
I think there's improvement in drawing a more realistic figure but the rendering makes it really unappealing. Also why is there light on her shoulder blade? And it's inconsistent. Set up a light source in one spot and work from there, but right now it's not good, plus the shadow on the bike goes straight down
I really don't think you did, but if you made the bikes both are really well drawn
Overall I would recommend working on your 3D form and doing more short gesture drawings. The second one looks especially stiff. Finally, please work on your rendering

>>5152127
Kek true. They should practice both character sets with stroke order. It's only 92 characters which can be learned in a month max if you're being lazy

Wait, you guys actually learn moon runes instead of eyeballing them from the dictionary ?

Any good resources on rendering for beginners aside from paid stuff from Ctrl+Shill?

>>5151874
good info, thanks anon

>>5150799
Drawing on the right side is alright if you skip the bullshit and just do the exercises but overall keys to drawing is way better

>>5149715
She thicc

>>5152037
thank you

>>5152384
You could try "Drawing realistic textures in pencil" by Hillberry. What the author asks as practice is definitely not /beg/ apart from a few simpler drawings and you'll have to figure out how to apply that to digital if you aren't trad, but you can get some good advice on textures and shadows by reading about half the pages.

What is the best approach to learning figure drawing from scratch? Should I first make anatomy diagrams featuring bones and muscles attached to understand volume or should I just watch a course from a teacher about gesture and stuff? If so, who do you reccomend? Villpu, Huston or Eviston? Posting babes for smart answers

>>5151988
>>5151119
Thanks for redlining mine anon, I'll try to go trough loomis and vilppu again now that I know my shortcomings.

Can somebody tell me what he did wrong?

>>5152511
I think hampton is best for this. He teaches gesture and how it applies to the anatomy of the body as well as effective construction.

>>5152517
Left rendermonkied while having a stiff face (i.e. it is almost square and the zygomatic arch is too low) while right threw a bit of roundness in there. They're both anime tho so that makes it shit anyway
>>5152520
Thanks anon, but I'm not really a good reader in english, so courses are the only thing or bust.

>>5152511
Personally I'm doing a quick overview of anatomy that goes over bone and muscle placement just so I'm familiar with the body. After that I'm gonna look through the various figure drawing teachers to find who works best for me, do some of their stuff and then I'll probably just start drawing people or start learning a different technique while working on figure drawing
>>5152520 sounds good too, I'm gonna check it hampton soon

>>5152517
Letting some jelly crab shitter see his pics

>>5152523
Yeah, the exact thing was on my mind too. Just hoped there is some magic teacher that does both because making diagrams is really laborious work

>>5152530
It doesn’t have to feel like labor. Just warm up by maybe drawing a page full of muscle studies or gesture or something. A small amount of bodily knowledge per day will take a long way

>>5152530
Try this, I'm not sure if it's good but it's what I'm going through right now. Aaron Blaise is a good artist but you should also use outside image reference since he tends to sketch things out, especially in the 2nd video where he talks about the skeleton
You'll wanna download it sooner rather than later though, I set the link to expire Sunday
https://mega.nz/folder/E3gzDSJD#CL5j-k3j7hrr4CqSx4ulFQ

>>5149905
Nice monke but you skewd monke.
I unskuwed monke, monke no longer skewed.

>>5152531
idk if it was intentional or not but the proportions are all over the place
>ultra long arms
>tiny little torso
>legs making up 2/3 of the body
shes in full monkey mode

>>5152542
I’m trying to download this on my iPhone through the app but it isn’t working , am I doing something wrong or is there a better method?

>>5152531
I dunno about anyone else in this thread but my hand can't flatten like that

>>5152531
Looks decent to me. Don't be distracted by haters.

>>5152558
Might be a bit of a pain but if your app isn't working you can try to download individually from safari. I'm on android and browser download works for me but idk about iPhone. No idea why the app wouldn't work but it might be the way I shared it? Let me know if you can't download it through the browser either

>>5152542
Based

>>5152571
Turns out I can just save every video to my gallery through the app. Thanks Anon

>>5152587
Great! I hope the course works well for you

Honestly seeing how bad some of the progress people do in a year makes me want to spend the whole day drawing and learning.

Thoughts on this?

>>5152531
She's meaty. I like it.

>>5152617
good but if you have trouble understanding what he means about line economy and flow i suggest watching villpu alongside the reading, as hes esentially hampton but with videos as far as figure drawing goes

>>5152622
Thanks anon

>>5152608
People who have shit progress are usually fucking around and not doing useful exercises

>>5152617
Great book, I’m working on it right now. Don’t go into it if you can’t draw a decent box or basic shapes or don’t have a solid understanding of perspective. I had that issue and had to learn both as I realized I was moving too fast

>>5152104
>>5152107

To draw accurately you have to copy shapes and lines to a certain extent and it's easy for the subject to get lost in that. You have to pay attention to what you are drawing, and you have to be thinking about it and interested in it. Draw around it, try to do contour lines and see if you really understand the structure. Draw it multiple times, sketch quickly and don't worry about it being pretty, just feel around it. Revisit studies multiple times after short periods, draw them again and try to get it into your long term memory. You can also try just drawing the construction, breaking it down into volumes from the start, so instead of getting caught up copying details, you are just trying to understand the volume of it.

You've just gotta remember that you need to be thinking while you're drawing. You're studying, you're not a xerox machine. If you're zoned out on auto-pilot your time is being wasted. Turn off youtube, turn the music off, approach it like shit you need to learn for an exam at the end of the semester. The finished drawing needs to be in your mind, the paper is just a tool for that.

I will never have a cute trap gf
Making it or not seems pretty meaningless when I look at things this way
Yeah, I think I'm gonna sketch cute trap gfs for practice from now on

please critique as best as you can, anything that can be improved upon is appreciated

Found a free 2D animation udemy thing if anyone is interested. No idea how good it is but free is free
https://www.udemy.com/course/absolute-beginners-entry-into-animation/?couponCode=TWITTER

>>5152649
that subaru from rezero?

>>5152665
Ace from One Piece

>>5150138
ginger

>>5152672
I thought that was Eren

>>5152531
As the other guy said the proportions are fucked up, the lower half of her body is too long compared to the top half. Either the viewer is looking up at her, in which case it’s correct for the lower half to be longer but you didn’t draw the body in such a way that indicates that we’re looking up at it, or the viewer is looking at her straight on on which case the body above the crotch needs to be equally as long as the body below the crotch.

>>5152107
>how am I learning anything if all I do is mindlessly copy?
Don't mindlessly copy. You're not supposed to just copy the image like a human photocopier, because if that was the case you would just trace it over and call it done. The point is that YOU have to recreate the image from scratch. How do you do that? How do you get the lines to match up perfectly? How do you recreate the shadows? You're not recreating the image just so you have the final product being a reproduced copy, the final product is irrelevant. We don't care about the final piece when we're figure drawing or studying because what matters is the lessons learned to get there. Can you actually understand the forms you're seeing in 3D? They're not "right there in front of you" because you only see a 2D representation of them, much of the form and shape and mass is hidden because it's a photo. So the question is, can you reverse-engineer it all, break it down into manageable forms and shapes, and put it back together again?

The image doesn't matter, the reference is just a tool. What matters is the skills and understanding you can pull from it so you can use those later.

So they disliked my hand drawing, my hand practice on that thread
I THINK ITS THE WORST ATTEMPT,
5 MONTHS AND STILL FAILING

>>5152649

Do you have a reference for this? Just a lot of broken stuff in general, things that look skewed, flat. The arm and leg look really stiff and awkward. The face and hair don't line up. The face in general is flat and has no bone structure, the features are just pasted on. I can see you're trying to draw the anatomy, but you don't really understand it so you're making mistakes and flattening things and putting random scratchy lines around. You put a lot of noise in where the folds are to try to make them look less flat but it doesn't work. Same thing with your shadows in general, you're pretty haphazard with them, there's no real confident dark shapes, just really understated guess work. Most of the image is just too light. Things just sort of go away on the right too. What books are you studying?

Tips for improving your posture while drawing
(while looking ridiculous, you do wanna make it don't you?)

1. Squats are your friend. EASY
2. Squats in high high heels MEDIUM
3. Squats in high heels while balancing X on your head -
X= a stone HARD
X= A sealed glass of water EXTRA HARD
X= a balance bar with one glass of water and one cup of soil EXTREME HARD

NOW do all this while drawing, no music allowed, it will distract you.

4. Find a way to sit in the full lotus position, repeat all balancing objects on head in step 3.

All of this will improve your ability to balance your head on top of your spine while drawing and kill any bad habits of slouching and compressing muscles in order to draw a line.

>>5152712
this seems like a trick to give dudes a nice ass

>>5152702
not studying anything in particular, any advice? anything in particular I should look up? what should I priorize fixing first?

>>5152712
looks like 4month anon has some competition

>>5152699
I don't understand why you're so focused on whether or not this specific picture is "succeeding", that's literally not how it works. It's not a binary thing. Every picture, every drawing is going to fail at something, each drawing is just one step in a march of thousands of steps. If you get hung up on whether or not you made this step "correctly" then you're going to stop moving forwards.

No one ever learns anything the first time, especially not drawing. Stop falling in love with one sketch, scrap it and start over. Do it again and again. Stop worrying about whether you're "winning" or "failing" and focus on what you can change about your process this time.

I'm literally a professional illustrator who gets paid to draw full pages for published books, I've gone to college for this and I've been drawing all my life, and I'm still "failing" every time I pick up a pen. There is no magical finish line to cross, there is no "making it" because we're always learning and always moving forwards.

Is it a good idea to do digital greyscale studies (following the ctrl-paint guide) on the weekends as well as doing dynamic sketching?

>>5152722

; )

>have a lot of layers in your work for every damn change you make, just because I'm such a faggot to do it all in one layer and ruin everything with a single mistake what I make.

Someone else happens ?

>>5152725
Form and anatomy. I get the sense you're copying your anatomical cues from things you've seen, but not understanding them. For example, I can tell you have no familiarity with how a collarbone or pectoral muscules work, what a sternocleidomastoid actually looks like or does, how a jaw works, etc. These aren't just things you can throw away because you're drawing animu. In fact, please don't draw animu.

You need to focus on actually understanding the figure as 3 dimensional forms, how they sit in space and how perspective affects them. You need to understand how to construct a figure and think in terms of more then just edge lines. And if you're going to try and use value to push that, you need to understand how light and shadows actually work and you need to actually commit to it instead of just brushing in little bits of grey to wash out the whole piece.

You need to lay down a solid foundation before you worry about all the details.

>>5152722
>>5152728

in reality it is about becoming like Maitreya, being one who can balance the Dharmachakra (the law) on one lotus emanating from one hand clasped in union with the other hand which balances another lotus balancing a Kundika, a small pot filled with water (the water which quenches the thirst of the common man)

all while seated upon a throne with two dogs

>>5152774
got it, thanks a lot for the help anon, any specific books you'd recommend too?

>>5152735
Because for 5 months we have been failing with not a single success, if there was one
A single drawing that others would agree has potential as there is in others, then yeah sure BUT NO THIS HASNT HAPPENED, IT CANT HAPPEN
IM TALENTLES
5 FUCKING MONTHS GOT ME PIC RELATED? are they right anon? Should I give up? am i just wasting my time

>>5152793
Not particularly, I don't really spend time with books. Loomis and Bridgman both cover the basics and principles of construction and anatomy, and those are things that are really worth learning. In my opinion, construction is everything, you can never have too much.

>>5152735
>>5151172
This one was praised, is it feeling the form despite not being that accurate and mine >>5151572
, mine was trashed
WHY IS EVERYONE BETTER THAN ME?

>>5152799
I told you, stop saying the word "success". There's no such thing. You're just shitposting at this point anyway, verging on literal schizophrenia which I'm not going to engage with.

Calm down, stop looking for pity points, and do the work. Art is not a success/failure thing, it's a gradient of learning. If all you're doing is grinding a pencil against a page so that you can look at the result and feel like you "did it good", then you're in the wrong headspace and nothing will help until you get out of it.

Stop focusing on who else is getting praise or "making it" and worry about whether you're actually learning something.

This should be fucking easy, take >>5152799
this picture and tell me one thing you learned while studying it. And if you can't, then I can't be bothered with you.

How's my bug?

>>5152725

Unless you have a reference you're copying, I would stop working on this and move on, you're not going to learn anything from guessing.

Get the morpho books and learn figure construction and anatomy. The simplified forms book is good to start, and his anatomy book goes into much more detail. You should look at all the figure books if you can though, Loomis, Hogarth, Jack Hamm, Vilppu, etc. Whatever you pick just stick with it and copy the drawings, don't flip through it once a week and do a drawing or two.

Burne Hogarth has a book on clothing folds you could take a look at too, but it might be a bit too much for you.

Either way, whatever you're drawing stick to the reference. Don't draw from imagination. Your imagination is just your memory, and all you can learn from that is what you don't know.

>>5152819
>This should be fucking easy, take >>5152799
>this picture and tell me one thing you learned while studying it. And if you can't, then I can't be bothered with you.
That I should consider depth more often, look at the eyes, that my understanding of the mid are is nonexistent, I dont get cheekbones, faces are wider than they look in 3/4 but I cant grasp FORM so its useless
>>5152819
>>
>Stop focusing on who else is getting praise or "making it" and worry about whether you're actually learning something.
iT'S ABOUT PROGRESS YOU FUCKER

>>5152819
>Art is not a success/failure thing, it's a gradient of learning
Easy to say that when I'm sure you've experienced success thanks to talent, me? nEVEer had that option
5 months with no progress anon you too would behave just the same

>>5152823
>>5152824
I'm out. You are fucking insufferable.

>>5152829
I knew it you have nothing to say
SO much for a fucking """""""""""""""""""pro""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
TAKE YOUR larping and fuck yourself with it

>>5152819
WE DONT EXPECT LEARNING ANYMORE
IT HAS PROVED TO BE A MYTH, WE JUST CANT IMPROVE NO MATTER NO MATTER HOW HARD we try

>>5152833
>>5152830
>>5152824
>>5152823
>>5152803
>>5152799
This is the face of schizophrenia mixed with moderate to severe autism.

>>5152841
And this is the state of the larping "pro"

>>5152841

Just report and stop giving them attention, these threads are for learning, not for one attention whore to spam the same shit over and over

>>5152846
Not even breaking a single rule
LARPING should be bannable so that you could get punished for claiming to be a pro

>>5152846
>these threads are for learning
Which I'm clearly trying to do, the fact that the thread hates me for no reason is another thing.

>>5152766
That's probably how you should do it, every other famous artist on youtube has two dozen layers.
I use something like 3 or 5 layers but I'm mostly doodling random shit and pretending it's practice.
>Lineart
>highlights
>shadows
>base color (formerly sketch's)
>background

sometimes I wonder why they don't have some sort of Git plugin for photoshop or CSP that would commit the file everytime you save it, that'd probably be a good idea. especially since they rolled that collab feature.

>>5152746
follow through on your circles

>>5152876
han doesn't

>>5152884
are you han?

new bread

>>5152890
>>5152890
>>5152890
>>5152890
>>5152890

>>5152889
han doesnt instruct people to so why should I?

>>5152899
cuz ur circles fucking suck

>>5152910
thats what practice is for!

>>5152913
practice by following through your circles

>>5152915
i think i'll listen to han sensei instead of anonymous poster of questionable skill level

>>5152899

Most people teaching construction tell you to go around the form and follow through so you can visualize around the object. Look in any figure drawing book and you will see that they follow around the forms.

I've never done Han's stuff but he should have mentioned this.

>>5152922
ok but it isn't showing in your circles

>>5152926
yes you are correct in pointing out my day 1 contour lines are poor
this is a shocking revelation

>>5152803
I'm worse than you, I swear

>>5152933
you're the 5 month schizo aren't you

>>5152946
i havent once suggested that i wont get better and my studies thus far have been pointless
dont you DARE compare me to the schizo

>>5152949
you're needlessly defensive and aggressive like him

>>5152690
Thanks for the tips.

>>5152884
kek

>>5150555
>>5150643
>>5151988
Thank you all, i'm happy with what i got so far. Anybody know of a good brush i can use for shading? (had to crop to reduce file size)

first attempt at a collage that i wanted to mess colors around with

>>5152139
those aren't implants, she looks like a girl between 13 to 16 those look tight s fuck,a however, if I am correct it would mean this is CP Jailbaito!

>>5153820
You type like you are between 13 to 16, dumb coomer

Nooo I want to keep downloading vilppu videos.

>>5153873
How about you stop hoarding and start drawing?

>>5152139
They act natural, look at what the arms are doing. If you actually studied your anatomy you'd know the arm movement affects the tiddies hugely.

>>5154552
Lmao, virgin, real tits flatten out when a grill lies on her back or lifts her arms. Study you're moms 'anatomy' after I'm finished with her.