Why does ic shit so much on beginners? Isn't this board suppost to help people improve?

[Anonymous No.3194498]

[Anonymous No.3194499]

beginners are only shit on when they don't post in the thread they're supposed to

[Anonymous No.3194504]

because crabs crabs crabs

[Anonymous No.3194507]

>>3194499
There are is no rule saying beginners must go to the beg general. Fuck you crabs

[Anonymous No.3194509]

>>3194498
>Isn't this board suppost to help people improve?
No. It's a trap meant to lure fragile upstart artists in, slowly they entice them with promises of Steve Huston videos, NMA rips or obscure japanese art books. After a while these poor beginners start to feel comfortable, they think "Hey, if these guys are giving me all these free resources they couldn't be all bad right?" And that's when all hope is lost. They begin to buy into the /ic/ mindset, they forget about why they wanted to draw in the first place, they have no emotional sensation or drive in their work anymore, instead they are purely driven by some vague notion of "gitting gud" and "making it". Then these poor souls begin posting in the /beg/ thread where they'll be spat upon by other hopeless beginners lost on their journey. They'll fight and they'll fight, pulling each other lower and lower into the depths of NGMI hell. Then comes the final nail in the coffin, our plucky young beginner has been morphed into a hideous, insidious old crab. Now he's just another crab in the bucket. Heed this story and never ever post your work on /ic/ as a beginner.

[Anonymous No.3194511]

>>3194498
>ic
>help people

The only help I get is from a handful of anon (probably the same person) and the free resources.

[Anonymous No.3194550]

>>3194498
Simple answer is because this is 4chan. And it craps on people who are pretty near if not professional too.

There are a small handful of trolls who are completely regular here. It was actually a peaceful place for like two days while for some miraculous reason all the trolls were gone.

Now at least one or two have wandered around the place today.

[Anonymous No.3194557]

>>3194511
>This.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were very few actually helping.

[Anonymous No.3194578]

>>3194498
typical dunning kruger fags with nothing better to do

[Anonymous No.3194586]

Getting shit on is good for morale

[Anonymous No.3194592]

>>3194498

[Anonymous No.3194602]

>>3194498
Why the fuck did you write your post on the subject field you stupid faggot?

>Isn't this board suppost to help people improve
Praising failure doesn't lead to improvement. If people are shitting on your art then get better.

[Anonymous No.3194620]

>>3194602
You talk like feedback is an all or nothing black and white thing. Sure praising failure doesn't lead to improvement but just saying "loomis! It's shit!" is just as bad. There's a HUGE middle ground between saying "oh anon it's perfect, I like your style" and completely demoralizing somebody.

[Anonymous No.3194623]

>>3194620
Don't waste your time, it's the same dude most likely crapping up all the boards.

For two days we had peace with no trolls for some reason, then just today they came back. This person no doubt lives on /ic/ and it's just a waste of time to respond to them, that's all they're after is (you)'s they don't care what they're saying. Just arguing for the sake of it.

[Anonymous No.3194624]

>>3194498
>where do you think we are?.jpg

seriously though, we are on the internet, with anonymity, it bolsters trollish comments and posts. you can't tell if someone is really genuine or just taking the piss.

Seriously, there was a post way back, it was a drawing with a realistic body (complete with shading) then with an anime head, asking for how to improve. then there were replies like "use loomis" etc, etc, etc.

Sometimes, I don't even know if the person posting is genuinely dunning kruger delusional idiot or just trolling looking for (You)s

[Anonymous No.3194637]

>>3194624
sauce on the artist + link to artbook if you have it? Pls and thank!

[Anonymous No.3194639]

Your assumption is that this is universally agreed.

[Anonymous No.3194641]

>>3194624
Personally I'm convinced 90+% of the people using the term dunning kruger are the only ones who have the problem. Most people know that they aren't a pro. These guys just troll people with the meme word of the day. You can pretty much guess whose a troll by how much they fall back on 4chan slang, like the current 'crab' or dunning-kruger, or whatever. 'read the sticky'. The people who actually help people pretty much never say those things. it just takes one look through /beg/ to see that those helping others out aren't the ones saying memes and trend words.

[Anonymous No.3194655]

>>3194498
Not really.
/ic/ DOES give advice from time to time, but sometimes beginners either don't understand our posts, give up or simply get butthurt because they didn't hear what they wanna hear.

Still, most of the research has to be done BY THE ARTIST, not the critics. You yourself have to search for your own answers and information. What books to read, which medium to use, what's needed and where to go.

Hell, we have an ENTIRE repository of books and resources (some of which I have contributed myself) for artists to study from, yet, there are lots of clueless faggots posting about Loomis being a meme or some shit.

Yeah, the meme threads are wasted space, the animu bait threads are fucking awful and it gets tiring to see random spergs getting triggered at animal characters, but at least you can't say that there's nothing to learn here.

Dip into the shit to reach the diamond.

[Anonymous No.3194667]

>>3194509
saving this

[Anonymous No.3194668]

>>3194637
https://nhentai.net/g/169833/

Shuhan

[Anonymous No.3194672]

>>3194498
Because it's obvious that many of them have never read a book about art in their life.

>>3194507
Rule is lurk moar

>>3194641
It's more about unconscious incompetence than simply Dunning-Kruger. As it covers people who know they suck refusing to learn what they should to improve, seeing no value in anything that doesn't help them draw anime waifus (for example)

[Anonymous No.3194675]

>>3194655
i think it would be better if more people actually did just shut up and help others, rather than tell them to go research or this or that. research is helpful but not as good as an entire community of artists helping each other, maybe

will never happen on 4chan of course, too much young boy mindset, where people have to crap on each other for literally no reason. words like dunning-kruger etc wouldn't even be floating around here if it wasn't full of 10 year olds. real teachers don't say stuff like that, people who know what they're doing don't either. they just help or say nothing.

pointing out references like loomis is helpful sometimes, its not a meme but it could be used as one

[Anonymous No.3194682]

>>3194672
>It's more about unconscious incompetence than simply Dunning-Kruger. As it covers people who know they suck refusing to learn what they should to improve, seeing no value in anything that doesn't help them draw anime waifus (for example)

that's a decent point, but at the same time, there are very few people who actually refuse real help. i've seen it before where someone is actually helpful and the person wasn't ready for it, and usuall they just quietly say thanks. people on 4chan overestimate how many attention seekers there are. there are 9 bullies for every 1 attention seeker, then a ton of lurkers who are neither. the bullies are the most vocal and they treat everybody like an attention seeker, which drives everyone else crazy

[Anonymous No.3194689]

A lot of crabs also help people.. I just don't get it

[Anonymous No.3194699]

>>3194689
I've been away from /ic/ for a while and hanging out in /qst/. What are crabs? And if you know, how did it start?

[Anonymous No.3194710]

>>3194672
art books are a meme

[Anonymous No.3194712]

>>3194699
I thought /qst/ was ruined by ids and crossboarders.

[Anonymous No.3194713]

>>3194699
Same here, I just recently came back
Crabs is just people who mislead new artists with bad advice or critique like the new draw a box meme and the never dying loomis meme

[Anonymous No.3194721]

>>3194713
Oh cool, thanks. Do you know the reason why it's 'crabs'? I haven't seen any meme pics yet, so now that I know -what- it means I will have to find out -why- its crabs. Like what the story is. Its definitely new for /ic/.

[Anonymous No.3194723]

>>3194712
/qst/ isn't too bad. its not the greatest but not the worst.

Its actually better for being sfw. id's help a tiny bit but honestly anonymity and roleplaying games don't mix. there are a few games that are worth playing and only because there are more people who aren't anonymous than usual

[Anonymous No.3194725]

>>3194721
crabs in the bucket phrase

[Anonymous No.3194727]

>>3194725
Ah, thanks so much.

[Anonymous No.3194733]

>>3194712
>>3194723

I've only ever seen ID's work against you if the QM themselves is a troll.

If the board is ruled by trolls having an ID sucks because you can't enjoy the game any more once they decide to troll you. But it's a double edged sword, with an ID, if you're the QM or you have a majority of non-trolls it could work the other way around and stop them from posting.

[Anonymous No.3194766]

>>3194713
>loomis is a meme meme
crab detected

[Anonymous No.3194775]

>>3194766
read loomis =/= critique

[Anonymous No.3194791]

>>3194498

Because this is still an imageboard, putting your art here is the same as putting your art on display on a public toilet wall, you're going to get similar kind of comments around it on both.

[Anonymous No.3194799]

>>3194710
Ban books them

[Anonymous No.3194823]

>>3194710
>meme meme meme!
Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.3194833]

most people take art too seriously. pros are pros because they draw what they enjoy drawing. if you only grind all day and talk about just grinding then you'll be really bitter and hate drawing. just draw what you like and have fun should be the mindset

[Anonymous No.3196462]

>>3194498
these threads only get made when a normalfag comes in from twitter or tumblr and doesn't get the back-pats and ass-kissings theyre used to receiving for minimal effort.

either improve with the rest of us or leave

[Anonymous No.3196463]

>>3194833
>pros are pros because they draw what they enjoy drawing
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Anonymous No.3196469]

>>3196462
More like "stagnate with the rest of us or leave" lmao

[Anonymous No.3197103]

Its 4chan in general because of the anonymity thing. Most people won't say a goddam shit on their art social media account. In fact, I'd say a lot of them are playing the sjw game that they supposedly hate so much. People come here to vent. shitpost, and shill their stuff. The few who share their art are beginners who don't understand 4chan or artist who know that their art are better than anyone else on this god forsaken place. Let alone those who post other people's art. Bottom line take everything you see, and read with a grain of salt, and don't take insults personally. You fucking faggot (sorry)

[Anonymous No.3197239]

>>3194509
came here to post something to this effect basically

[Anonymous No.3197256]

>>3197239
>>3194509
ngmi

[Anonymous No.3197319]

>>3194498


But it's not necessary a bad thing. Because I'm fairly certain that the people who give up art after receiving hard criticism never really enjoyed it enough in the first place to take it to a place that really matters. So then they quit early instead of spending a bunch of hours doing something they never really cared about.
The only shame there are the true hobbyists who only do it for fun and don't care much about the quality. But there I just feel that they need to take responsibility themselves for where they post their art.

[Anonymous No.3197330]

>>3194507
It's more like beginners (or anyone) shouldn't post a new thread just to showcase their own shitty artwork.
And it's annoying in the drawthread/altdrawthread because the only advice you can give to beginners is to study fundamentals/read the sticky/LOOMIS

[Anonymous No.3197441]

>>3197330
>Critique board
>shouldn't post work for critique

???

[Anonymous No.3197513]

>>3197441
There is a baseline level of ability wherein critique becomes useful. Most beginners are so far removed from any fundamental concepts of art that trying to advise them on a single thing or pick at a peculiar issue is pointless due to how terrible their grasp at everything is.

[Anonymous No.3197583]

>>3194713
fuck
so is drawabox bad or not?

[Anonymous No.3197587]

>>3197583
Draw A Box is great. The people who dislike it dislike it because they can't sit still for the 15 minutes a day it takes to draw the boxes (or lines, ellipses, or organic forms -people who dislike Draw A Box never actually read the instructions, and don't know you're supposed to be drawing things other than boxes).

[Anonymous No.3197652]

>>3194498
There are people other than beginners on this shitstain of a board?

[Anonymous No.3197707]

>>3197256
posttu workku

[Anonymous No.3197745]

>>3196462
>ask for pointers
>told that I'm wasting time that could be spent drawing
>get told to quit because I'm asking too much
>meanwhile they give no tips or constructive answers


Wow this place really is shit.

[Anonymous No.3197750]

>>3197745
I went through that exact process and just stopped posting my work here.

[Anonymous No.3197938]

I try offering practical advice,or suggest challenging projects to people here in spite of the crabs. The goal of the Artist is to find one's own unique voice,and that often flies contrarily in the face of the Fundamentals and Loomis crowd. Lots of paid artists out there who don't draw realistically, and those who I see on here I point to viable markets for their work,like greeting cards and album covers,even encouraging them to make their own mock ups for their portfolios.

My own work gets routinely slaughtered here,and despite and partly in spite of this unhelpful criticism I will continue drawing. Because through the flaws there are worthwhile things that wouldn't see paper if I listened to the perpetually angry here. All you can do,really.

Every line a lesson.

[Anonymous No.3197949]

>>3197938
This padwan gets it.

[Anonymous No.3198020]

>>3194498
Because it's 4ch and internet as a whole, people are cunts and don't want others to succeed
take the ressources and fuck off from here, it's the only way to gain something and lose nothing
This pretty much https://youtu.be/cHuSRHxBgUg?t=45s

[Anonymous No.3198026]

>>3194504
crabs crabs crabs
new meme

[Anonymous No.3198030]

>>3197513

You are fucking stupid, if someone draws a broken arm, a twisted neck, miss-aligned eyes, etc, I just tell them!

[Anonymous No.3198199]

>>3197513
This is completely true and anyone who refutes this is a part of the problem. It's incredibly obvious when someone hasn't studied a single book or comprehensive resource in their life. That's why people get pointed at the sticky or at Loomis, for anyone who has a decent amount of skill it's a complete waste of time to critique someone who has not studied seriously for 1 minute. It's easier and more beneficial to set them on the right track of learning than to tear down everything they have created in a single post.

I'm part of the problem is these idiots make a whole new thread just for themselves and their junk art, rather than looking around and seeing how threads are structured. But what can you expect from people who refuse to learn.

[Anonymous No.3198204]

>>3197513 #
This is completely true and anyone who refutes this is a part of the problem. It's incredibly obvious when someone hasn't studied a single book or comprehensive resource in their life. That's why people get pointed at the sticky or at Loomis, for anyone who has a decent amount of skill it's a complete waste of time to critique someone who has not studied seriously for 1 minute. It's easier and more beneficial to set them on the right track of learning than to tear down everything they have created in a single post.

Part of the problem is these idiots make a whole new thread just for themselves and their junk art, rather than looking around and seeing how threads are structured. But what can you expect from people who refuse to learn.

[Anonymous No.3198399]

what does ngmi mean

[Anonymous No.3198410]

>>3198399
never give mom ideas (that you'll make it)

[Anonymous No.3198412]

>>3198399
not gonna make it

[Anonymous No.3198413]

the only people that shit on anyone are beginners

that is a rule on this board

if youre being toxic on an anonymous imageboard that means youre an unhappy person, and if youre an unhappy person without proper emotional outlets i can assume youre not productive, and so badabing badaboom you're opinion is discarded.

[Anonymous No.3198420]

>>3198413
see
>>3198204

[Anonymous No.3198422]

>>3198412
oh shit well duh, thanks

[Anonymous No.3198451]

>>3198412
why are anime girls so refreshing and cute

[Anonymous No.3198533]

>>3194509
One time I traced over from an artbook 1 to 1, perfect copy and posted it in the /beg/ thread and 2 people told me I had the wrong perspective

[Anonymous No.3198572]

>>3198413
If people didn't get shit on we would have even more garbage threads and stupid questions. When people have no fear, no hesitation, you get complete retardation.

Check the catalog for people being idiots.
>Something about people stealing other people's youtube videos
>How do I draw good circles
>I need to become good in two and a half years or I'm going to die
>The original artist just blocked me on Instagram for biting his work
>muzmus on dA, just posted my first artwork! i know the anatomy is dumb. how do i get used to digital art easily?
>>3198145
>ms.paint 30 seconds of drawing psychedelic art
>I ordered 1'000 white dice. 8mm*8mm*8mm
>>3197547
>Good ja?

These people need scorned and ridiculed. If they never posted again because they got hated on, score.

Then you have threads like this.
>>3195968
>Critique pls
The person posted art, they got some advice, thread over.

Like most things real problems with real solutions only take on a few replies to get across. And because of that they are easily missed. When 100 replies of drama isn't attached to a question/thread it's really easy to overlook all the times people get help. Especially with exciting endless <<DRAMA>> to focus on. Like this thread.

[Anonymous No.3198586]

>>3194498

No one means to, I don't think. They just don't know how to help. Most aetists have been drawing their entire life and started as children. So they have no understanding of how to actually begin drawing.

So when someone who's not a child asks, "I've never drawn before. How do I start?" they end up drawing a blank. And since they can't answer something so trivial about something they know everything else about you get answers like, "You should be spending time drawing instead of asking questions!" or "Just draw! It's that easy!" And since those answers aren't wrong newbies don't know how to refute them. But they are also not helpful at all.

As a noob myself, looking at a blank piece of paper and being told, "Just GO. Just DRAW on it," makes me draw a huge blank because I don't know where or how to begin. And neither does /ic/.

[Anonymous No.3198595]

>>3198204
Sure but everyone spouts loomis or some other vague shit anyways. Just remember when anon critiwued vilpuu. This place is shit and the ones who do frequent here seem to care too much about what kind of thread gets posted. You're not mods someone is totally allowed to make a new thread for critique fuck off.

[Anonymous No.3198597]

>>3198595
Loomis isn't vague unless you're too much naive to know better.

[Anonymous No.3198600]

>>3198204

>for anyone who has a decent amount of skill it's a complete waste of time to critique someone who has not studied seriously for 1 minute.

Its pretty easy to determine from a shitty drawing what tutorial they need to start with first and what their next exercise should be:

Deviantart MS-Paint shit? Time to start drawing from life a LOT. Not a single sonic recolor or animu girl trace allowed until you draw at least some exercise that looks ok for a beginner.

Anatomical problems like a common "dude has a huge face but no forehead or back of the head?", draw from life, focus on anatomy drawings and start memorizing how skeleton and muscles work.

Piece has muddy colors or its an epilepsy seizure of rainbow colors? Time to study color theory and lighting.

Character looks stiff or only gets depicted from one side? Time to draw from life again, with added Croquis exercises with more challenging poses and 1 minute maximum time to finish per piece.

The piece is an INSECT BATTLE-tier puke of Photoshop preset filters and brushes? Buy a pen and a sketchbook, not allowed to use Photoshop until fundamentals are right. Tell him its important to learn math first before starting to use calculators.

[Anonymous No.3198604]

>>3198600
Thanks for supporting the part where I said...
>It's easier and more beneficial to set them on the right track of learning than to tear down everything they have created in a single post.

[Anonymous No.3198622]

>>3198597
Pointing a beginner to Loomis is like telling a newbie mechanic they should start working on space shuttles. It's useless to point them to anatomy books when they can hardly make a pencil do what they want in the first place.

If you want to help an absolute beginner then you need to tell them to start easy to get the hang of drawing first. They should practice lines, circles, and boxes first. It's training wheels. You may not need to ride a bike with training wheels yourself but starting a baby out on a 10 speed is too much. It overwhelms them by showing them how ridiculously much they have ahead of them and that can be pretty intimidating.

[Anonymous No.3198623]

>>3194498
There is no doubt that 4chan as a whole revels in its acerbity. But the years of coddling and compliment sandwiches that preschools and peewee soccer leagues shoveled down your throat has confused you about what critiques actually are. They're feedback. They don't inherently have to encourage you, or make you feel better, or teach you things, or even pinpoint your specific problems. It's just a snapshot of how the greater public may respond to your art.

Criticizing is the lowest form of participation, so it's mostly what you're going to get from the board. Read the stickies, study your books, and use /ic/ critiques as a way to gauge your progress rather than a hugbox or some kind of knowledge base. This is an anonymous board with zero accountability. Why would you treat it as some kind of authority?

[Anonymous No.3198671]

>>3198622
Pointing beginners to Loomis is more like pointing a newbie mechanic to a toolbox and then explaining to them every single tool and how they'd use it along with a checklist to always go through in order to make sure that they don't fucking kill themselves while working on an engine.

Loomis deals with all the bullshit you said in your second section, and much much more.

[Anonymous No.3198716]

>>3198671
I bought Loomis's figure drawing book years ago and realized it was too much at the time. Can't draw skeletons and faces if I can't draw in the first place, now can I?

[Anonymous No.3198758]

>>3198716
Successful Drawing is the book to start with, not Figure Drawing For All It's Worth.
The figure drawing book is aimed at people who are at a point where they're looking for work, and Loomis says as much in the introduction.

[Anonymous No.3198778]

>>3198758
Sounds like the kind of thing you'd point out when pointing someone to Loomis, doesn't it?

[Supernal No.3199481]

>>3194498

Because this is 4chan, there's cross-board shit posters and edgelords all over the place. People get baited by trolls and shit, same as any other board. Check through some of the other pages and you'll find the better threads and find like-minded people to talk to through discord or something.

[Anonymous No.3199888]

>>3198413
You're right anon, I only shit on people because I'm myself quite the sad fuck so I relieve my anger on others to feel a little better
years ago when I wasnt that cynical I would rather share my happiness

[Anonymous No.3199904]

>>3198451
symbol drawings basically. everything pops and is visually easy to digest. anime is an art

[Anonymous No.3199924]

>>3198716

>Can't draw skeletons and faces if I can't draw in the first place, now can I?

Thats where you draw from life. When the pen starts feeling comfortable in hand and you think you're ready to draw from imagination, you go back Loomis books on whatever particular problem vexes you. And he explains it in simple enough manner that you don't have to be a brain surgeon to understand it.

[Anonymous No.3199970]

>>3198622
Loomis intended his book to absolute beginners. Drawing his potatoheads don't require line control.

[Anonymous No.3202124]

>>3194498
Do not go to 4chan for advice or support. Go to 4chan for resources.

4chan's core culture is shitty and horrible and not to sound like a dick but if you go on here expecting thoughtful, sensitive replies then you're either an idiot or a masochist.

4chan is a website full of teens to emotionally stunted adults. Don't go here expecting emotionally intelligent replies. Go here for general resources.