/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Wasn't >>19663341 non-canon?

>>19671686
I can't even tell at this point.

i can't learn japanese

i was so scared that djt was gone for good this time

>>19671704
you're in the right place buddy neither can i

I'd seriously like to see some documented and verified information from people who do shit like claim to skip kanji decks and then clear the JLPT N1 within a year. If we can establish that these people even exist, I'd then like to see proof that they aren't freak cases and that their methods are applicable to people who aren't inherently gifted in language learning.

I'm doubtful that they aren't just scared of not looking like the top of the class, so to speak, and perhaps even deluding themselves as to what level they're at.


>>19671629

>Kanji are scary!

That's standard VN vocabulary.

>>19671720
>people who do shit like claim to skip kanji decks and then clear the JLPT N1 within a year.
i don't think i've seen that specific claim
>gifted in language learning
please don't ever say this again

>tfw you start seeing radicals in kanji soon after starting learning them
Feels good. I've even noticed radicals in the radicals themselves. Radicals are sugoi!

>>19671720
i dunno how you cite kanji as this big difficulty that has to be tackled methodically and deliberately when the biggest challenge of language learning is finding time and energy to study and most of all not being lazy

>>19671759
don't you know that putting hundreds of hours into isolated kanji study pays off so strongly in the end that it's the only way you could possibly be get good at japanese in less than five years

>>19671675
うまくなりたい！

How do you differentiate between the radical for roof, cover and lid?

>>19671771
It doesn’t matter how you do it. No rules, just tools.

>>19671771
Scratch lid from that, lid's easy

>>19671759

This is another thing that I'd like to see proof of: That A) you can learn kanji without any sort of concentrated effort, and B) that it's more efficient than spending 20~ minutes per day on a kanji deck for a couple of months.

The concentrated effort doesn't even necessarily need to be a kanji deck. It could be something like daily writing practice.

>>19671775
Well I've noticed are subtle differences like stroke length, but won't people in a hurry draw a stroke longer or shorter which would change the kanji? I haven't started kanji yet so this might seem retarded.

>>19671780
That won’t happen because of the context. Also you don’t read handwritten Japanese very often either unless special circumstances.

>>19671786

wtf, this must be a troll post. context? nobody is that stupid.

>>19671777
i think what you're forgetting is that you dont need to produce on the jlpt
you dont have to put any particular effort into kanji learning them stroke by stroke so you dont mess up 緑 and 線 or whatever to pass n1

>>19671780
週末
未来
末期

wow it's almost like studying vocab 100% eliminates the chance for you to read these wrong

>>19671786

Most of this post is stupid, but he's right about efficiency not being subjective.

He's talking about names lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/97ee73/my_name_is_april_would_it_be_appropriate_to_use/

>>19671788
>>19671796
Alright, thanks!
>>19671786
> Don't use kanji
オケ

>>19671786
This guy gets it. Why use kanji when you can just learn the language by ear? You can speak and talk. You’ll eventually even be able to read as a result of exposure. Kanji is an unnecessary hassle in the language learning process.

>>19671799

>>19671805
> That would be like me using stable loyalty as my english name.

>Daily Reddit Pasta Thread

I hope flash translation contests become a recurring thing so that we have something to do in these threads other than argue about the same thing for the millionth time and bargain basement shitposting.

>>19671834
What else is there to do in a thread about long term learning?

how do you like my new keyboard DJT?

sugoi, its shit

>>19671848
I don’t get it. Why is it in this order?

勉強しなくても、頑張ったら日本語はヤスくなります。読んだり書いたりエロゲをやれば、上手になるとオモいます。

>>19671843
Ask questions whose answers aren't trivially available in a grammar guide / via the nearest internet search or discuss what content lying at the far extent our our language ability we're currently consuming.

"nothing to talk about" -> "shitposting time!" is a horrible heuristic.

>>19671848
I don't get those ugly buttons surrounding the kana

>>19671848
I've always felt like the spacebar on 40% is too small but I never really deviate too much on my 60%.
The color scheme is shit btw. Red and blue don't really match like that. The dark blue on the function keys makes it worse.

Black and white is the best colourscheme
Anything else is shit and capitalist

>>19671848
>small space bar
>non-directional arrow keys
>retarded side buttons
>lights
>no ぬ
0/10

>>19671876
>>no ぬ
he's missing more than that
there's a fad to buy kana keycaps without knowing japanese for that japan aesthetic

>>19671848
What does the rad button do

>>19671896
caps lock is rad

>>19671876
>no ぬ
why did you even check? it was obviously bait

how do you like my new keyboard DJT?

>>19671759
Kanji is probably the easiest part of learning Japanese. Honestly, I enjoy "catching" all the Kanji and look forward to learning as many as I can.

The hardest part is listening.

>>19671887
しつもんです
食堂でご注文は違いますそれではどうするどう言う
例えばお水を言っただけどお茶を来る
サーバはどう言う

>>19671932
If you replace all occurrences of "Kanji" in your post with "vocab" you have the right attitude to get good at Japanese.

>>19671939
Think of all the prototypes before someone decided to just use the space bar.

>>19671945
china has a few other alternatives that manage to work on a standard keyboard, sometimes i wonder how inconvenient they are to actually use

>>19671942
Both are equally important though.

>>19671952
Not really. A lot of words get written without kanji and you don't have any kanji in spoken japanese.

>>19671952
no actually vocab is far more important

>>19671887
ごめんなさいタグはわざとじゃありません

>>19671942
But anon, I do learn Kanji through vocab. It's just getting harder and harder to get new Kanji without branching out to new genres/sources. It's also really weird because I occasionally learn a new kun-reading I didn't know even though I know a decent amount of words. Example, I just learned 経つ today after months of knowing 経済・経験・神経・経営 and lots of other words containing it. However, it's amazing how quickly you can retain that even after a long time of only ever knowing it was read a certain way.

Still not ok with how cool 幻 sounds on its own and how lame its on-reading is.　幻想 comes to mind.

>>19671941
why did you reply to me
i don't know japanese
stumble through something like
あ、ちょっと、すいません、違いました、水が欲しかった、サンキュー

>>19671941
>おミズ

>>19671941
>行っただけと
stopped reading right there

>お茶を来るサーバ
what? the server that comes over tea?

>ふ

Am I meant to pronounce this as "fu" or "hu"?

>>19672015
I always pronounce it as "shi" but it's up to you man, make it your own :-)

>>19672015
neither, it's not the h sound in はひへほ but it's not the english f sound, look it up

>>19672022
This, individualism is most important

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FknmUij6ZIk

15:05

misa-sensei is lewd as fuck

>>19672032
Why does she just keep going on and saying it? Is imagery everything in learning?

>>19672038
she knows it will stick in your memory better if you can really visualize her saying dicks and penisu
good teaching

>>19672032
Why do Japanese people hate sarcasm?

>>19672060
bc they cant pronounce it

>>19672061
Good one. Got a laugh out of me.

>>19672061
たとえばこの記事
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20180719/k10011538401000.html

皮肉はニッポン人が分かれませんと思います

＞林檎
＞蜜柑
>苺
should i bother learning bullshit llike this just in case or not?

>>19672032
>>19672127
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqXUZM41Y5I

Sorry Misa, you've got nothing on the sexiest weathergal on ANN news. No cutesy voice here, just a sexy, mature voice to tell you about the latest shitstorm that's gonna wreck your life in Japan.

>>19672142
How is apple, mikan and strawberry bullshit?

>>19672032
24:59

"john's dingdong"


pure girls aren't supposed to have dicks on the mind

>>19672142

What's the harm? The worst that happens is you know how to read the Kanji in case it appears somewhere. Is it really so hard to remember 蜜柑? if you know 秘密 or 秘匿 then you're already halfway there since 密 shares the phonetic with 蜜 and let's face it, you'll remember 蜂蜜 easily enough to remember this anyway.

And 林檎 is easy too.

The real weird ones which are still piss easy to remember are things you don't see like 鮫、鰻、蝙蝠、蟋蟀、etc

>>19672156
what's the appeal of a pure girl

>>19671941
にほんでちゅうもんちがいは

かならずかえてくれる

「これ、ちがいます」

これでいけるとおもうよ

Whoever made this deck is a retard. This is like the fifth time I've seen this dumb typo in different cards.

Reminder to stop postponing your katakanas and get it over with already so that you can pretend to know japanese by speaking exclusively in katakana english

Why does Anki show Good and Easy for new cards? It's not like you would already know it.
Also, what do the green and red dots that appear for a while above the card mean? Is it like a timer?

Reminder to keep postponing your japanese and study the kanji so that you can pretend to know japanese by deciphering the kanji in a sentence

>>19672215
>It's not like you would already know it.
Why not?

>Also, what do the green and red dots that appear for a while above the card mean? Is it like a timer?
If it's after you press a button (easy, hard, etc.), it's just confirming which button you pressed.

>>19672215
>It's not like you would already know it.
srs is intended to be used to review items you learned outside of srs, not to download a deck full of shit you don't know and cram it in through brute force failure

>>19672200
>not learning the Katakana by reading Pokeman names

Might as well enjoy it while you learn, and maybe even learn some cool shit along the way.

>オニスズメ　鬼雀
>ヒトカゲ　火蜥蜴
>フシギダネ　不思議だね
>エニガメ 銭亀

etc

djt good

あたしどくしょする

おにいちゃんも

きょうもたのしいほんをよもう

>温める

>>19672234
i used to think pokemon would be a waste of time but now i think it's probably a good thing for a beginner to do in their first month
seems like it'll get you prepared for a good future of prioritizing reading over memorization and other forms of study, while you get your kana up to par beyond where simple drills can take you, and learn some of the basics of the language

>>19672259
I disagree, you get to practice kana sure but you're staring at incomprehensible material for hours on end. Pokemon is good once you have some basic vocab and grammar under your belt.

What are some good resources for raw manga? The /djt/ guide has some nice ones available but it's not a very large archive. I get the impression that it's easier to find fantranslations than raws.

Particularly I'm looking for the Tsukihime and Gunm manga, the former because the VN is gonna be too complex for me and the latter because the live action movie's gonna come out and I want to reread it in Jap.

fuck learning with anything other than Misa-sensei

>>19672266
i'd still suggest skimming tae kim but i think i would have felt frustrated going to pokemon after learning some vocab with kanji, being unable to practice that part of what i'm learning

>otoko no hito
Wouldn't otoko imply man? Is hito being specified to hammer down that kanji for the reader or do you actually need to say it?

>>19672267
Try searching for it in japanese, looking for raw sources in english internet would definitely give limited results.
Try looking for specific filenames too, ie kinnotabi.rar or something but in japanese

>>19672266
Look, if at that stage your i+1 is the scrolling battle text and RPG text like "どくけしをひろった！"and "「アイテム」をつかった！", then seeing that on end with minor variants between battles is actually not the worst thing you can expose yourself to.

Once you see enough of it to realize what's "grammar" and what's "word" it gets easier to work with. Tae Kim every now and then while playing and drawing vocabulary from Pokemon isn't god-awful. Is it super efficient? No, but you'll get an appreciation for a lot of key things about Japanese while still having a good time. Plus, if you DO know enough to comprehend a bit, it's entertaining to see how things are different between the version you played as a kid and the Japanese original.

what's the point of jap name being written in katakana?

like Sakura. I get using hiragana to 'simplify' it for non kanji readers, but what's the point to write it in katakana, it's not a 'borrowed' word.

>>19672267
I have 銃夢, I think I downloaded it from nyaa. Usually, googling the Japanese title alongside keywords like "zip" or "raw" does the trick.

>>19672294
男の人implies adult male, in contrast to 男の子 but I've seen 男 be used by itself in informal situations

>>19672294
男の人 is used, i think 男 has a more casual vibe

>>19672300
Or you could learn kana through brute forcing and learn what is and isn't a word in an hour with Tae Kim before touching Pokemon.
I'm not the guy who thinks that ankidroning is good but it's far, far more efficient to just do cards at the very beginning in order to build a foundation.
You could just look at the what seem to be arbitrary strings of kana until your brain realizes by chance what is word and what is grammar, but you're really betting on a lot there. You're not a child anymore, your brain lost the language acquisition ability.

>>19672294

otoko means male

otoko no hito means male person(referring to a man, not a male child)

otoko no ko means male child or boy

onna no hito means female person or woman
onna no ko means female child or girl

ko is short for kodomo which means child

>>19672304
Consider introducing a man named Richard Mann.
Katakana: "He's Dick Mann"
Hiragana: "He's a dickman"

>>19672328
but that's not a japanese name, hence katakana is required. Sakura is japanese, what's the point of writing it in katakana?

>>19672328
How is Dick short for Richard?

>>19672336
choosing katakana over hiragana is like choosing capitalization
or italics or bold
it has a nuance and it is used for more than loanwords

>>19672319
even if you do cards in the beginning does that imply that's all you can do?
does your opinion change if you skim all of tae kim before starting?
>You're not a child anymore, your brain lost the language acquisition ability.
no

>見送りにと守備兵たちが集まってくれていた
When you see it

>>19672336
Katakana is not only for foreign words. Its used for all kinds of stuff like animals and plants too.

>>19672338
it's shorter isn't it

>>19672362
>even if you do cards in the beginning does that imply that's all you can do?
Not at all, but still playing Pokemon is inefficient. For kana, you can go to something like real-kana and practice much more efficiently. There's really no "in context" for kana unless you want to learn いろは.

>does your opinion change if you skim all of tae kim before starting?
Yes but I don't recommend skimming all of Tae Kim before immersing either.

>>You're not a child anymore, your brain lost the language acquisition ability.
>no
Yes. Just so you know, acquiring language and learning a language are two different things. Don't try to argue that adults can acquire a language, you're going to make a fool out of yourself.

>>19672319
What beginner is gonna listen to this sort of advice?

Look, until someone realizes that they need to grind a bit to truly learn this language, the best they can do until they accept that is to simply do things with the language until they either give up or realize it's less frustrating to memorize 20 words a day so you don't even have to think about it when you see　「からだが　しびれて　うごけない！」

Eventually it'll get that way with Kanji too. Literally easier to just learn them than to be frustrated as you look up every other word in the dictionary.

>>19672272

this

once i learned enough japanese to learn whole sentences i stopped using anki and memrise. i'll probably go back to anki and memrise when i have to learn kanji but i am more focused on learning verbal japanese rather than written japanese. i know hiragana. that's all you need to know to learn vocabulary. katakana can be learned later since it's for foreign words.

i only watch misa sensei videos. i have seen mostly all of her videos. i watch one once a day. i've been doing it for the last few months

the videos with x in the title are the ones i've seen

>>19672379
Just so you know, I'm arguing not to play Pokemon after learning the kana to practice the kana because it's inefficient and just doing kana cards is much better.
Unless you're willing to say that you did that (immediately went to read/game just to read long strings of kana) then you shouldn't recommend it to others, as it is untested.

>>19672304
It implies a lack of familiarity, and perhaps the speaker being foreign and therefore possibly getting the pronunciation wrong.

In Fate/Stay Night, Saber first addresses Rin (凛) using kana but later on she switches to kanji, after she's gotten more familiar with her.

>>19672308
Thanks my dude. I was stupidly using the English or kana search terms and forgot that Gunm is written in kanji.

These torrent sites aren't well organized and usually just have one or a random combination of volumes but I suppose there aren't many alternatives. Oh well.

>>19672377
>For kana, you can go to something like real-kana and practice much more efficiently. There's really no "in context" for kana unless you want to learn いろは.
disagree, i drilled for longer than i should have and it wasn't until i read words in kana that i stopped making mistakes
>Don't try to argue that adults can acquire a language
do you dispute krashen's theory?
regardless, strings of kana has little to do with how a child acquires language

>>19672391
>you shouldn't recommend it to others, as it is untested.
how am i going to test it
you are standing in the way of science

>>19672418
>Before puberty, young children can acquire second and third languages with equal ease and fluency, although they will forget them just as quickly if they cease to be exposed to them in childhood. Also, a child who never acquires a first language will still have problems acquiring a language after puberty (cf. the story of Genie, an abused child found by social workers at about age 13 1/2 who had never been spoken to and had no first language at all). So the presence of one language is actually not the critical factor that slows down a person's ability to acquire other languages. Instead, the crucial factor seems to be the age and maturation of the individual: a person before puberty acquires language naturally, while the same person after puberty must learn the language with great effort that yields less than perfect results.
http://pandora.cii.wwu.edu/vajda/ling201/test4materials/secondlangacquisition.htm

>regardless, strings of kana has little to do with how a child acquires language
The point was that staring at Pokemon dialogue boxes isn't going to magically teach you how to parse words.

>i drilled for longer than i should have and it wasn't until i read words in kana that i stopped making mistakes
You have to read at some point to gain actual fluency in reading kana, but anki them first is efficient.

>>19672426
Intentionally gambling other people's learning without even letting them know it's untested is going against proper scientific ethics, stop it.

>>19672391
To be fair, I actually did stubbornly do this at the start. It worked, and I ended up doing exactly as I described to start not having to think about words so much.

Tae Kim grammar helped me along as my brain was ready to process more and more concepts. I pulled Kanji forms of words because it's easy enough to sound things out from kana and remember it even if my main exposure to the Kanji form was flashcards.

I vividly remember this day because when I realized what I was seeing here, my brain finally accepted the fuckery of Kanji readings and things got slightly easier from then on.

you need to move to japan to "learn" japanese
when you do, you forget all about anime and video games

きょうのマイナーネットスラング

>ネキ

名前につけると

ひとをギークみたいにする

ただし女性にかぎる

>>19672435
>The point was that staring at Pokemon dialogue boxes isn't going to magically teach you how to parse words.
if you are actively trying to figure out what is going on with external resources, you'll figure it out, but i didn't intend to suggest avoiding tae kim
>You have to read at some point to gain actual fluency in reading kana, but anki them first is efficient.
sure, or djtkana, i didn't intend to imply that your first exposure to them should be through pokemon either
>Intentionally gambling other people's learning without even letting them know
in what way did i fail to let them know
they'll be making mistakes regardless, that's a given

>>19672435
Why does there have to be a 'first do this/then do this' order? Do both.Practice your kana for twenty minutes, then play Pokémon for an hour. It's not gonna hurt your ability to learn, and cramming meaningless symbols really only works well for a small amount of time per day until you get bored with it.

Also I'm a scientist (although I'm quitting soon) and I can tell you ethics doesn't exist in science, we just make shit up and fudge the numbers until we can write a story we can publish somewhere by paying the journal a few thousand bucks. Don't believe in it because it doesn't work. Besides, are there even any proper references for most of the stuff in the guide? There's usually either (a) nothing or (b) something sponsored by the people selling the method.

>>19672465
>Also I'm a scientist (although I'm quitting soon) and I can tell you ethics doesn't exist in science, we just make shit up and fudge the numbers until we can write a story we can publish somewhere by paying the journal a few thousand bucks. Don't believe in it because it doesn't work. Besides, are there even any proper references for most of the stuff in the guide? There's usually either (a) nothing or (b) something sponsored by the people selling the method.

>I fudge the numbers so I can publish a story
>I'm quitting soon
Thank god.

Out of curiosity, which field?

>>19672469
seems like you're hearing what you want to hear, surely you recognize that it isn't rare? there is generally confirmation bias in the funding after all

if you want to learn a second language, be a lazy language learner and only spend like 20 minutes a day trying to learn it(not hours). eventually you will learn it if you do that every day for years
you are more likely to stick with it if you don't try too hard. if you try you will eventually want to give up because you're trying too hard and it's making you doubt whether you will learn it or not despite all the effort you put into it.

>>19672469
i was just debating whether i should bother responding the same way

>>19672487

>>19672487
> 20 minutes a day
Boy, we want to learn it before we die

Learning Japanese is a race against time. You have 18 months to become fluent or else you have failed.

>>19672321
Anime pro knowledge right there, thanks Jamal!

>>19672449

>you need to move to japan to "learn" japanese

this is not necessary actually. there are people in north korea who can speak fluent english and they have never been around anyone who speaks english

i doubt misa sensei has been to any english-speaking country and she speaks great english. if she has, that's probably not how she learned english. in one video, she said she learned english by watching hours of american television

>>19672507
come on now that's only 82 years to 10000 hours

if nothing else take it from matt that you can even start a cult off of your ability without moving

>>19672495
i love this image

>>19672518
Honestly with the current rate of medical advances it might be doable before death.

>>19672454
きょうのネットスラング２

>ニキ

かんぜんにギークにする

おとこにしかつかえない

>>19672507

when i say 20 minutes, that doesn't include anime, idols, dramas, etc
of course you will have to study japanese longer than 20 minutes if you don't immerse yourself in japanese-related hobbies

>>19672485
Its mot rare, that doesnt mean I cant be happy that part of the problem is leaving.

>>19672614
seems to me his place of work is the problem, nothing is changing with his leave

>>19672032
>>19672038
>>19672042
>>19672060
>>19672061
>>19672065
>>19672107
>>19672145
>>19672156
>>19672160
Fuck off with your e-celeb trash.

only arguments about rtk and standard approved shitposts from this point on
you don't know japanese

Im gonna learn in this time. No more burning out. No more letting life get me down. Im going to succeed even if it kills me.

>>19672642

give up lol

>>19672657
Blow it out your ass

>>19672642

20 minutes a day of japanese study = 121 hours of japanese study a year

121 hours is not insignificant

>>19672664
Yes but it's incredibly impractical.

>>19672664
isn't the minimum for fluency 2000 on that chart.
20 years to speaking japanese woohoo

>>19672662
Don't make me say it again.
I CAN learn Japanese

>>19672664

>>19672675
Learning for Ten hours leads to tear-duct showers.

>>19672672

>>19672107
彼女は綺麗だ

>>19672669

how is it impractical? i've been doing it for 2 and a half years. i've been doing like 20-40 minutes a day

>>19672685
No

>>19672687
Are you fluent?

>>19672672
Sure you can, but will you?

>>19672700
Damn straight I will

>>19672689
alright gl then

>>19672705

>>19672698

no i am not.
it depends on what you mean by fluent. to me fluent means being able to understand and speak every day japanese

i have probably studied japanese inefficiently the first year because i didn't really know what to study. i was using shitty anki decks

>>19672708
怖い

>>19672718
You cant even carry a conversation in Japanese after two and a half years.
>How is it impractical?
Theres your answer. Blame your methods or anki decks all you want, but there's clearly a bigger underlying issue.

>>19672723

anyone who claims he or she can speak a language fluently after 2 years is full of shit

do you know japanese or are you spouting pseudo babble about language acquisition?

>>19672469
Life sciences. I'm not saying "I" do this, specifically. I've tried to go against it, but you can't stick around like that. It's heavily encouraged (my boss regularly tells me to 'run the numbers again a few times' or to find a 'better representative image') and if you don't do this kind of thing you'll never publish enough to stay in the field. Doing things correctly is discouraged because people just want to see little asterisks above your graphs, even if you make it clear that you're using statistics that doesn't provide these cool little stars.

But you see this in literally every field of science. I can imagine that in softer sciences like linguistics it's even worse.

>>19672735
>anyone who claims he or she can speak a language fluently after 2 years is full of shit
Is this what dekinais actually believe?

Okay, I figured with my schedule the most optimal solution is to ""learn"" new words (and the kanji they are usually written with) using primarily Core, until I get to about the size of N3 vocab.

How do I make the most of it though?

What I currently do:
> look at the screen for a fraction of a second, enough to recognize it (if I actually remember it well, otherwise I fail it)
> write down the kanji from memory
> while listening to the example sentence
> read the Japanese sentence and check if I heard it right
> ignore the translation, unless I can't understand anything, which doesn't happen often

>>19672946
People are aware of it now at least. Reproducibility has become a major scandal. We can only hope that proper reforms come out of it. I almost went into science myself, but I wasn't motivated enough to stick with it. Even so, I'm confident that individual scientists will eventually overcome the science publishing system.

政府はあんまりセイフじゃないね

>>19672986
Stop jerking off to core so hard and start reading.
Artificially learning ~3500 words (which is roughly the size of N3 vocab) is a huge waste of time. You'll remember them much better if you encounter them naturally while reading, and then you can reinforce your memory with anki.

>>19672989
えっ

十分
じゅうぶん
じゅっぷん

Why does this fucker get to mean two completely different things that you cannot necessarily get from the context?

>>19672986
>>19673001
this is what i was going to write

>>19672986
Sentences are a meme. Learn vocabulary and read in parallel. Using a mining deck is generally better than using core (though more time-consuming)

>>19673001
>Stop jerking off to core so hard and start reading.
I am. I just don't have the time to read all day and learn words like セミ and 乳首, when there are more frequently used words I don't know yet.

>>19673020
do you have an example where you are unsure which is intended

>>19672988
It'll take at least a full generation of scientists. For the moment, my experience is that anyone intersted in doing good research leaves research because it's impossible to fight against the many, many flaws in the system. It's not gonna stop because the places you can go to with questions about scientific integrity suffer from the same problems.

One of my collegues went to my university's research integrity office with her questions about authorship and whether it's okay to change the order of authors without informing all co-authors. The answer she got was "suck it up".

>>19673020
充分 is the correct form for じゅうぶん

>>19673020
cuz it's almost always 10分

>>19673033
>there are more frequently used words I don't know yet.
if they are valuable for you to know now you will run into them when reading
you can use core for a few hundred words first if you want but going past 2k is a mistake and i'd recommend not going past 1k

>>19673030
>Using a mining deck is generally better than using core
If I mined instead of doing any Core at all, reading would take forever, and I would know what 既成事実を作る means while not knowing how to say "breathe". Seems really stupid to me.

Don't forget to do your daily RTK.

>>19673050
whose fault is it that you still don't know how to mine

You don't have to stop to learn all the words you encounter when reading, though.

>>19673053
>tfw i know japanese better than yotsuba
pshh.. nothin personnel.. kid

>>19673065
If you wanna stay as a dekinai forever that is

>>19673053
I don't get this because I didn't know that 止 can be read as まる

>>19673074
it can't, that's the joke
she's a kid and didn't learn that kanji yet

>>19673082
I guess this humour is just too high level for me

>>19673085
the next level part is that she 丸まれs in response

正誤表：
Someone maliciously asked me whether I preferred 琥珀 or 翡翠 without ANY context on the previous thread, to which I replied, as a matter of fact, that 琥珀 was the better choice.

Unbeknownst to me, though, these names referred all along to two (2) crimson-haired maid characters of poor taste and artistic execution.

I would like to formally retract my stance and make it clear for everyone in this community that I by no means endorse either of them in any way, shape or form.

>>19673091
I'm taking notes here. This is really informative.

what a fuckin loser
琥珀 is more fun to play as

>>19673096
you've gotta pay the retraction fee if you want this blunder to be undone

>>19673053
I'm curious to know how the joke was translated.

>>19673116
prolly something about hamburgers

>>19673114
You can have the 翡翠 bead.

>>19673116
It comes with a TL note

>>19673096
>two (2) crimson-haired maid characters of poor taste and artistic execution

>>19673136
Big cringe @ this and EOPs.

>>19673136
And an incorrect one at that.

>>19673140
there was a time when i saw that quite frequently, thanks

>>19673053
Yotsuba is just plain stupid.
1) That kanji is not round, nor similar to 丸, so there is no basis whatsoever for her dumb guess.
2) ま is already printed on the ground, so there is no way she took that for a kana either.

And here you thought Yotsuba was a good learning source. Guess what? Not even the MC knows Japanese.

Don't get me started on Ena being such a pushover. Look at that subservience, that thoughtful reaction of thoughtless obedience.

>>19673136
>Japanese letters

>>19673169
まる as in a placeholder, friend.

>>19673176
Like this?

>>19673140
Someone please PS the writing into "テメェの家族をぶっ殺すぞ"

>>19673169
well, she's 外人 after all

>>19673196
先生 what ぶか ?

>>19673204
呼ぶ

>>19673196
>牛乳
Is this a reference to バタ臭い??
Yotsuba has the deepest lore.

>>19673204
Sensei marubuka.

>>19673215
IIRC in that chapter she buys a bottle of milk and brings it to Fuuka's school.

>>19673215
he should say marubuka sensei but he did warn that he's a gaijin

>>19673196
She's not even an attractive American, she's from some war infected wasteland middle eastern island or something, so bad that Kowai won't even tell her where she's from.

>>19673257
>so bad that Kowai won't even tell her where she's from.
he doesn't know, he just found her somewhere

Does anyone have the answer key for this? The resources page only has the book itself but not the 別冊 which makes it kind of useless to me.

This kanji along with 骨 should've been assigned a different meaning.

>>19673284
>useless
Too strong of a word. It might certainly affect your confidence in how much you've actually learned, but exercises should only assess whether or not you've understood what is already stated in the theoretical part of the book.

>>19673286
Looks like a ladder coming out of a UFO

>>19673286
yeah but not fairy more like bumble bee

>>19673295
Which is what I want it for. I can get the grammar explanations from other books, I mainly just want more exercises for practice.

>>19673096
I though they were talking about pokemans or something.

>>19671834
Terrible idea. Doesn't do anything for anyone.
>>19671862
>Ask questions
Better answered through more input. It's 2018 and you need to accept DJT has changed.

>>19673317
it would have helped if someone posted a chart of the characters we were discussing so all the people who don't belong on jp can keep up

>>19673327
>Doesn't do anything for anyone.
it is a terrible idea but this is a terrible argument against it
we're all wasting time here either way so why not mix it up

>>19673286
Looks like a robot walking quickly

>>19673329
vn shitters belong only on /a/

>>19673192

>>19673353
/a/ is for filthy secondaries

>>19673356
Yeah, hiragana does make it look more innocent.
Thanks.

>>19673353
>vn shitters belong only on /a/
heh

>>19673192
Who's Timmy and why do you want to kill his family?

>>19673433
Timmy is my upstairs neighbor, do I need to say to more?

>>19672986
女の子かわい！
日本人絵師が描いたんじゃ無いんだ！

>>19673446
*say more
Should've checked it before posting.

>>19673447
知ってるよ。中国人に描かれた。
関係が無いと思う。

>>19673459
never apologise or you become a bitch

hey guys i made some good images for learning Japanese. i think it might help a lot of people here.
upvote if you want to see more

>>19672664
It's way less effective than if you spent the same number of hours studying across 24 days. The more you do the more easily you retain what you've learned. 121 hours spread across an entire year is ass.

>>19673484
Apologize once in a while, or you become a cunt.

>>19673478
中国人によって！？
thank you for teaching me

has any poster here ever proved fluency higher than M*tt's? just wondering.

>>19673546
no because absolutely no one here is even close to his level

>>19673485
Where do I upvote your suicide project

>>19673546
When did that eceleb prove his fluency? Where's his N1 certificate or JCAT score?

>>19673580
>N1 certificate or JCAT score
lol

>>19673575
Please leave

>>19673589
Better than nothing

>>19673596
since when do cultists think they own djt

>>19673575
It's not like I have any friends to turn down anyways...

>there are people ITT who believe there is a certain age when our language acquisition abilities just disappear
I feel bad for you for having this mindset

>>19673614
> cultists
?

>>19673546
apparently imouto is some kind of a nihongo god, but in order to understand that you need to be one yourself.

>>19673575
>piss bottles are real
Also, why does he always spell "nowadays" as "now days"?

>>19673546
Anyone on that level wouldn't bother with 4chan anymore and move to futaba
part of the reason why I'm learning jp is to escape westernet and it's shitty maymay parade. Nipponweb probably has meme troubles too but I'm fine with that

>>19673677
Japan has plenty of belligerent retards.

>>19673653
my sole motivation for learning japanese is to get good enough to chat up imouto

>>19673677
Futaba is such a shit site. It hasn't changed for the past 20 years

>>19673681
*Japan is populated with belligerent retards

>>19673677
i hope your other reasons are strong enough to carry you when that one is crushed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BckC9gXghIc

Haha all those losers spending years learning Japanese gramamr when you can do it in 25 minutes. Just Google how to learn Japanese in a week bros, haha no reason to spend years on it haha.

>>19673756
matt destroyed japanesepod101 years ago

>>19673756
>留学センター
If you're dumb enough to use Pod101 you'll probably never have to ask that question.

>>19673764
Matt only knows Japanese, I learn 13 languages on duolingo and know at least a few HUNDRED words in all of them.

>>19673756
The only JapanesePod videos anyone needs to watch are those with Risa. She's cuter than Misa and I'll fight anyone who disagrees.

>>19673769
Should've greentexted the whole sentence
>留学センターはどこですか。

>>19673770
an amateur polyglot huh yeah i'll believe you when you're traveling the world and making a comfortable living off of scamming monolinguals

>>19673770
> duolingo

>>19673789
actually im thinking of making a youtube channel after im fluent in at least one language...... maybe in a few months...

>>19673793
i also use memrise and anki

loook at these

>>19673804
why wait that long, did anyone else

>>19673770
I'll tell you a story about duolingo.
> decided to take the Jap placement test
> opened comments on something like 昨日９時まで働いた
> question "Can I say 昨日は９時まで働いた ?"
> answer from a guy with 9000 language badges
> "Technically you are saying "Yesterday worked", as if "Yesterday" was the one working. It must be just "昨日".

>>19673858
holy shit

>>19673858
nothing stands out so well in my mind but that sounds about par for the course

thats right you can settle for trying to figure out a language all on your own on the free internet or you can pay someone who knows how to get you going properly and answer your questions

or you can also pay someone who cant get you going properly or answer your questions ┐(‘～` )┌

lifes tough

>>19673902
>pay someone who knows how to get you going properly
does this exist

>>19673902
if you had to choose between classrooms, online course services like duolingo, and matt, i'd tell you to pick matt, but you really don't have to pick any of them at all. just do basic grammar and vocab study to get your foot in the door then start reading and listening

besides matt will tell you how to get going for free. his advice is full of useless bullshit like rtk and sentence cards but his method will eventually work if you stick to it, unlike college class bullshit and grammar sites full of fake linguists.

>>19673930
How are sentence cards bullshit now?

>>19673286
骨 dancing skeleton
滑 sparkly dancing skeleton of fabulosity

>>19673921
101 college courses

college is fine if you use any relevant personnel there to your advantage

if you just go to the class and go home dont bother

>>19673957
three are three reasons to use sentence cards:
- you're completely illiterate and need a way to forcibly expose yourself to japanese text in a consistent way without flaking out
- i can't think of a second one
- you're allergic to reading or listening to natural japanese
tl note: vocab cards with optional example sentences on the back are not sentence careds
>>19673980
this virtually never happens and even when it does it's a waste of money and/or an opportunity

固い and 硬い difference?

>>19673988
one means hard and the other means hard

>>19673968
college is an expensive way to talk to a native with a teaching degree and otherwise waste some time on weekdays
"get you going properly" is also an overstatement unless your experience was a lot better than mine

>>19673983
why do so many ajatters swear by sentence cards if they don't help. wouldn't it be easy to notice.

>>19674014
because they don't hurt

>>19673983
You are supposed to take the sentences from a natural Japanese source and why in the world would you hide the sentence behind the flashcard?

>>19674013
>native
I had a former JET guy. I only took the class for credits and actually already knew everything but he was a good motivator and a really funny guy.

>>19674020
i know what you're supposed to do that doesn't mean it helps

>>19674015
debatable
is wasting time and decreasing efficacy hurting
it is hard to notice though

>>19674039
i mean you're not actively wasting your time because doing them is indeed technically beneficial
there's just no point in doing them instead of listening and reading with that same time because reading and listening are much more powerful

>>19673623
It's not so much a mindset as it is a fact. The older you get the harder it is for you to acquire knowledge in general, not only languages.

I know this is bait but I'm giving pearls to whatever swine might trick themselves into thinking they're some memory god.

>>19673623
There’s an entire board like this for learning in general.

>>19674057
you think you're helping but you're giving people something easy to misconstrue into an excuse for why they aren't making good progress so that they can either give up or keep doing what is ineffective while thinking 仕方ない

>>19673983
i mean if youre in college anyway it doesnt really hurt to go check on that department and see if theres real ninjas you can talk to and then go talk to them and clearly tell them your goal and see what they have to say

its all up to you so save the "this virtually never happens" shit because that kind of thinking actually just enables people to let opportunities pass them by without checking them out

of course if this is the situation at your school >>19674028 then ┐(‘～` )┌

>>19674029
is it easy to tell if sentence cards are helping you more than exposure?

>>19674046
So you dont use Anki at all?

>>19674106
>go talk to them and clearly tell them your goal and see what they have to say
I told a Japanese professor at my university that I wanted to interpret and understand Subahibi on anything but a surface level, and he had no idea what I was talking about.

>>19674124
did you remember to wear your plz be patient i have autism ballcap

>>19674121
i stopped using anki forever ago though i contend that memorization is always useful
you just have to figure out what to apply memorization to and how to do it
people meme about paper memorization being bad but just writing something down on paper and reciting it for a few days can be a lot less annoying than making an anki deck if it's really fucking simple and short

吾輩は猫である

>>19674142
So what you're saying is

Joke: sentence cards
Woke: writing down sentences on paper

こんにちは猫殿

>>19673764
Link and timestamp?

>>19674166
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikm_gL7-mZs&t=11

a sentence without any context can often be just as worthless as a word with no context which is just as worthless as a kanji with no context

whats woke is understanding complete thoughts and passages and how its sentences shape that

>>19674189
good post

>>19674189
The birth of chapter mining.

Haven't been to this thread since it's /a/ days, nice to see it's still around. I have a question:

I got my N1 cert about 2 years ago, is it worth retaking the JLPT for a more recent certification? I'm looking at doing some J>E translation once I'm out of my current job.

>>19674160
not him but if you're going to drill, drill the bare minimum to be able to parse more unique sentences: words written in kanji
drilling sentences is slightly less effective for learning to read words and tries to make up for it by doubling as input, but they aren't input
the drilling doesn't teach you japanese, the input does

>>19674210
nope

have fun with your endeavors

>>19674215
I was trying to make a joke about writing practice

>>19674210
What sort of backwards country do you live in? Do they also require you to renew your drivers license and shit?

>>19674215
why would you drill the bare minimum if input is better? don't mine any words. just read more.

>>19674210
If you want to join the big leagues you gotta set your N1 certificate on fire and start working towards 漢検二級.

>>19674222
I can see why the Japanese don’t like sarcasm now.

they dont just like it they love it

>>19674233
drilling to be able to identify words and remembering their readings is not much work and increases your reading speed dramatically
the same cannot be said for other ridiculous shit you come up with
only reading is an option though, 冗談じゃない

are you really gonna trust this kid with your nihongo future

>>19674247
>drilling to be able to identify words and remembering their readings is not much work and increases your reading speed dramatically
no it doesn't. just read more. you'll come across those words countless times and you will remember the reading that way. drilling in anki is a waste of time. it's just less efficient input.

Why not nuke japan until they let go of kanji? I don't care about muh homonyms ambiguity, if it's possible in spoken conversation to tell from context which meaning of a word applies, then it's perfectly possible in writing too.

>>19674261
How much more difficult is kanji than learning Chinese?

>>19674261
sure

>>19674268

>>19674269

>>19674272

>>19674275

>>19674258
i think you're trying to be funny and don't recognize that
>you'll come across those words countless times and you will remember the reading that way.
this is true
still faster to use anki when your vocabulary is low
unless you're doing something easymode like yomichan that is easily abused such that it hurts your progress

>>19674279
last one

>>19674261
>he thinks spoken vocabulary is the same as written vocabulary

>>19674283
>still faster to use anki when your vocabulary is low
wrong. just get more input. you'll remember that vocab far more quickly if you just read more and come across it countless times. anki is a waste of time.

btw i am indeed making fun of your shitty logic that you only use against sentence cards, but can be applied to any usage of anki.

>>19674295
It’s not?

>>19674297
what if I want to be able to think more fluidly in japanese but the things i'm consuming are just not using all the words that i need to use to think in japanese

like let's say i think "i really need to do my laundry"

i don't remember the last time something i read talked about doing the laundry. maybe it was persona 5. even then i'm not sure it applies to normal clothes because it was abound "laundering" shady goods bought via mail-order shopping

>>19674297
>there are people who only input and don’t output as well
Disgusting

reminder that arguing in bad faith is not arguing and if you do it then you're just a dick

>>19674297
it's okay if you don't get it bud, you can say so next time
i think i've explained reasonably well but it's not terribly important so you can go without understanding for a while and someday maybe it will make sense to you

>>19674306
>>i don't remember the last time something i read talked about doing the laundry.
toughen up and start reading 16 hours a day from various types of media and you will come across that thought after a few months of media consumption. reinforce it that way.

oh wait...the problem you're outlining is indeed better solved via anki. guess the retard arguing against anki is just being a retard.

>>19674321
i never said anything about anki
there are ways to memorize things without anki

>>19674329
you were responding to a post saying that anki is a waste compared to just getting more input so forgive me if i thought you were implying something about anki.

>>19674333
you seem to have lost track of the conversation

flash card noobs are too scared to just let native material and brain power be the reinforcement they need

>>19674337
guess so.

>>19674218
Thanks!
>>19674225
Lol no idea why you assumed that but I was just asking because I'm not familiar with the professional translation field.
>>19674234
It's funny because the only reason I took the JLPT was to stunt on people in this general. The jcat is, in spite of what people might tell you, perfectly accurate in measuring Japanese language proficiency.

>>19674351
jcat is very accurate at the high and low ends but i'm almost certain that it doesn't reflect progress between N4 and N2 accurately at all

>>19674351
>The jcat is, in spite of what people might tell you, perfectly accurate in measuring Japanese language proficiency.
did your jcat score line up with your jlpt n1 and did you see the same types of questions?

>>19674333
>saying that anki is a waste
no one in the entire conversation said that

ふむふむそっか

>>19674351
i like to think djt is a bit more woke now and they know that your make believe nihongo knowing certificate obtained by completing a fully multiple choice test is a joke

if you wanna stunt on this "general" youre gonna have to come harder than that

>>19674365
i did sarcastically, using the same reasons someone used to argue why sentence cards are a waste of time. you're losing track of the conversation.

>>19674351
What was your Jcat score?

>>19674378
they weren't using reasoning, they were referencing facts

>>19674299
i'm sure you can think of an english word you know well that you've never heard used in a real conversation

>>19674378
what you are doing right now the same as is saying that pepperoni is toxic after someone says that cooking meat so much it chars over makes it toxic

you're not copying their reasoning or making a point, you're just being an idiot

>>19674382
hm on second thought i wasn't being sarcastic. i was just stating facts about more input being far superior to any usage of anki.

>>19674391
nice try
come back when you stop acting like a 15 year old

>>19674378
yes i noticed that you inserted it into the conversation forcefully with your wicked sarcasm
i was talking about the actual genuine conversation

>>19674389
what i'm doing is highlighting that baseless assertions are baseless assertions.

>>19674402
are you saying that cooking meat so much it chars over doesn't make it toxic
what is wrong with you

>>19674402
there's a base my friend, but if you want to keep your eyes closed you're more than welcome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOLxZ5XHQqA&t=50

>>19674160
>Woke: writing down sentences on paper
this might be the exciting new way to learn to write that i've been looking for

>>19674420
your anecdotes aren't a base that anyone else should take seriously.

>>19674429
it's a good thing i haven't presented an anecdote isn't it

i am the antidote

>>19674368
What does that アOル mean? I don't think I read enough ero VNs.

Following Khatzumoto's advice about frequency, should I listen to Japanese stuff I can't fully understand yet, like news?
I can only get some basic info like what country or event the anchor is talking about.

>>19674429
there are scientific papers that show that drilling vocabulary in various ways is helpful in various ways, and it's trivial to see that memorizing words you know you're not gonna see a lot like "dish washer" and "detergent" is going to give you something that you're not going to get without living your irl live in japanese

there are no scientific papers that show that drilling sentences (in the way sentence cards do) is as helpful as reading or isolated vocabulary drilling

>>19674441
google goatse for a better visual representation

>>19674447
>there are scientific papers that show that drilling vocabulary in various ways is helpful in various ways
citation? did they compare that to people who just read more?

>>19674446
if you can answer the who what when where then thats good enough

from there you wanna strive to answer the why and sometimes how

>>19674210
/a/non, the Japanese language didn't change that much since the last time you took JLPT, you're fine.

>>19674368
ソースを下さい

>>19674261
I agree
>>19674299
Not even the grammar is the same.
>見ず
written
見ないで
spoken

>>19674453
the idea that you actually think these responses are witty reduces my faith in humanity
i'm sure they compared that to people who shitposted on the internet instead

new scientific study published shows shocking epic findings

doing stuff causes stuff to happen

>>19674468
Conclusion: fuck Mandarin Chinese.

>>19674470
are you retarded? i'm not trying to be "witty". i'm confronting you on the fact you don't know what you're talking about, and that explains why my posts are pissing you off so much that you feel the need to insult me instead of just dropping the conversation. forgot to add this:
>there are no scientific papers that show that drilling sentences (in the way sentence cards do) is as helpful as reading or isolated vocabulary drilling
there's a difference between being agnostic on sentence cards because research hasn't done on the topic, and asserting that they're actually useless.

>>19674478
well that's sure the hope isn't it

>>19674453
here's one showing that computerized vocabulary drilling is better than physical flash cards

https://www.academia.edu/8879750/A_COMPARISON_OF_UNDERGRADUATE_STUDENTS_ENGLISH_VOCABULARY_LEARNING_USING_MOBILE_PHONES_AND_FLASH_CARDS

here's one about flash cards vs not using flash cards

https://www.academia.edu/23850870/Effect_of_using_Flash_Cards_on_the_development_of_Vocabulary_recognition_skills_of_the_three_lower_classes_in_Irbid_3rd_Directorate_Schools

>>19674486
i'm not him, i'm just calling idiocy as i see it, feel free to tell me what another example of a control group for such a study would be
i didn't say sentence cards are useless, i said they are inefficient

>>19674486
you are literally the definition of "i'm just pretending to be retarded"

>>19674502
I'm not him, asking for a citation (or any evidence) for a claim isn't overstepping his bounds. If you can't prove it in any way shape or form, don't claim it because it's probably wrong.
Anon asked for proof and was immediately told off. I think that says a lot.

>>19674516
then just quit responding. i don't understand the point of this "no u retarded" shit. you don't have an argument so just go away.

>>19674521
you're the one acting like this dude

>>19674517
as i said, immediately told off by a completely different person, i expected the citations would be posted and the citations are posted so fuck off

>>19674494
first is irrelevant to the conversation.
second is in arabic so if you know where i can find an english version let me know. regardless i'm going to assume that they didn't compare flash card utility to people who just read more.

also i hope you guys can read arabic

>>19674532
Yeah I didn't see the articles until after I hit submit, I thought it was the guy who told him off.
Very interesting articles, I only read the abstracts though.

>fuck off
No need to get hostile.

i wonder what word they use for the zipper of someone's pants
i have never once in three years of consuming japanese media had a need to read something about that
therefore, it is only possible for me to learn it through intentionally studying it
it is not hard, nor does it require rigor, to show and prove that there are times when memorization is beneficial on top of normal skill acquisition activities
it is not necessary to cite a scientific study showing that memorization is useful, just like it is not necessary to cite a scientific study showing that (modern) bananas start green and turn yellow
if you insist on receiving one you are arguing in bad faith

>>19674540
i thought i made it clear in the previous post that i'm not the one who brought up research and am a little irritated, sorry about that

>>19674550
also note that i am saying ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about WHAT SPECIFIC KIND of memorization you are doing, just that memorization, in the most general vague sense, is useful
it is also possible to prove that vocabulary flashcards in particular can be useful! without having to use science!

>>19674550
>it is not necessary to cite a scientific study showing that memorization is useful
i agree. the point isn't that memorization/drilling aren't useful, but that the reasons he used to argue against sentence cards aren't actually backed by anything than his personal experience or his intuition. it's just his opinion. and it's fine to have an opinion, but then be forthright about it instead of declaring it as fact.

>>19674554
You think you can just say "FUCK OFF" and then take it back?

Well you can. Don't worry about it anon, learning Japanese is difficult and frustrating, we're all a little eager to jump on things at times around here. Don't let it get to you.
We're all gonna make it, anon.

>>19674566
you can't prove that sentence flashcards are useful

>>19674572
agreed, in the same way he can't prove that vocab flashcards are useful relative to reading.

>>19674578
now you're taking it too far

>>19674578
there is no "relative to reading", everything assumes that you are reading as much as you can

>in the same way he can't prove that vocab flashcards are useful relative to reading.
yes you can
in fact it's trivial
>>19674306

what crazy fucked up way till djt die today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNCMUURSIjI&t=7

>>19674597
shadowgate is my waifu

will djt die* typo sry

>>19674581
what the hell are you talking about. you realize i don't disagree about using flashcards right?
>>19674583
>in fact it's trivial
you're talking about a slightly different situation where you're interested in one thought in particular for some random reason. if you want to learn how to comprehend a specific thing then drilling that specific thing is better than trying to drill it in the wild where it's less frequent. but the time you spend learning that specific thing takes away time that could be spent learning other things in the language. also sentence cards serve that same purpose.

>>19674608
holy shit you can't be this stupid.
there are thousands of things you have to learn intentionally via repetition if you're not living your life in japanese if you want to be able to think in japanese. one example that is as fundamental as doing laundry is indeed enough to demonstrate this.