/jp/ - Otaku Culture

In order to help make the significance of this clear, included is some essential information on both of these characters. For further information, reference the STATUS section of the EXTRAS menu.

Name: GILGAMESH
Class: Archer
Sex: Male
Height/Weight: 182cm/68kg
Alignment: Chaotic Good

Strength: B
Endurance: C
Agility: C
Magical Energy: B
Luck: A
Noble Phantasm: EX

Magic Resistance: E
Independent Action: A+

Golden Rule: A
Charisma: A+
Divinity: B (A+)

Gate of Babylon: E-A++, Anti-Personnel
Enuma Elish: EX, Anti-World


Name: EMIYA SHIROU
Class: Archer
Sex: Male
Height/Weight: 187cm/78kg
Alignment: True Neutral

Strength: D
Endurance: C
Agility: C
Magical Energy: B
Luck: E
Noble Phantasm: None

Magic Resistance: D
Independent Action: B

Clairvoyance: C
Magic: C-? Strength unknown.
Mind's Eye (True): B

Unlimited Blade Works: E-A++, Various

The similarities, both in these aspects and others, are staggering, yet the differences also very significant. This analysis will first compare the traits listed above and then move on to comparisons of personality, greatly abridged story, greatly abridged backstory, and appearance.

Their names are insignificant.

First, Class. As can be seen, both Gilgamesh and Shirou belong to the Archer class despite having little involvement with it in their lives and having no great talent with the bow. However, a key difference can be observed in the fact that Gilgamesh is completely inexperienced with them while Shirou is competent in their usage. This is the first indication of Shirou's greater dedication to hard work.

Their gender is the same, but this is to be expected due to the rarity of female main characters outside of a few specific genres.

Second, height and weight. Though they are similar, Shirou is much heavier than his increased height warrants. As he is physically fit, the only possible explanation is that Shirou has put more work into maintaining his body.

Third, alignment. This is one of the more striking differences between the two, as Gilgamesh's alignment could not be more dissimilar from Shirou's. In the case of Shirou, individuals of the True Neutral alignment do not care about anything beyond themselves and those around them. However, it should be noted that Shirou's alignment is not consistent throughout the entirety of the work--he changes alignment rather frequently due to the many harsh experiences he must face. In the case of Gilgamesh, individuals of the Chaotic Good alignment tend to be uncompromisingly committed to the cause of good, allowing nothing to prevent them from doing everything possible to achieve an ideal. In further contrast, Gilgamesh's devotion is unshaken and implicitly stated to be unshakable by, quite literally, everything.

Fourth, general statistics. Despite all of Shirou's hard work, he cannot match Gilgamesh, who is blessed with naturally great physical strength. Despite his dedication to training both physical and magical, he can only match Gilgamesh in endurance, agility, and magical energy. In luck, the contrast is nearly as great as possible, with Shirou having effectively none and Gilgamesh practically being capable of having everything turn in his favor without even trying. Even more ridiculous is the contrast between Noble Phantasms--Gilgamesh has the greatest of all and Shirou has none at all! As a brief mention, Gilgamesh was granted the blessing of having no need for a Master while Shirou knows just enough to outdo Gilgamesh in resisting magic.

Fifth, special skills. To put it simply, Gilgamesh can have anything and anyone he wants. Was it not for his arrogance, he would also effectively hold the status of a god. Shirou, on the other hand, is extremely perceptive in both sense and thought through his great efforts and magic. Curiously, he never makes use of the latter.

Sixth, weapons. As previously mentioned, Gilgamesh is gifted with the greatest Noble Phantasm, marking him as the greatest hero. Shirou, of course, has none at all. On the other hand, they are both capable of pulling a great many weapons from nowhere at all. Gilgamesh's ability of this sort is known as the "Gate of Babylon". It is really nothing more than a method of pulling forth any and all Noble Phantasms, as, in reality, they all belong to him. However, they are effectively useless--he does not know how to use them either as common weapons or as Noble Phantasms, nor does he seem to care. Shirou's ability of this sort is known as "Unlimited Blade Works". It is a Reality Marble, basically meaning it is an imposition of himself upon reality, defying all logic. It is both greater than Gate of Babylon in being theoretically infinite and lesser in the fact that every weapon Shirou creates is inferior to its original.

Seventh, personality. Gilgamesh submits to no one, claims superiority to everyone, judges everyone and everything, and generally just believes himself to be greater than anyone, mortal or god. Shirou, at first glance, is very different, often thinking to himself that those around him are surpassing him. He is reluctant to judge, as well, and enjoys doing chores--the kind of work a submissive servant might do. However, looking deeper, we see that he will fight anything, whether he believes it superior or not; will strike down anything which goes against whatever his goals happen to be, judging them as inarguably wrong; and views himself as superior even to the very reality around him. It should be said that the only difference between them is that Gilgamesh believes his greatness has already been made while Shirou works tirelessly toward his own.

Eighth, story and backstory. Gilgamesh is a demi-god, a king, one who failed to become immortal and then came back from the dead to do it anyway, one who faced all evils of the world and uses them to do his dirty work, and, as is explicitly stated, the greatest of all heroes. Shirou is an average human being with nothing special about him at all, surviving only by the good will of others and basically completely incapable of doing anything on his own. However, an interesting twist occurs--Gilgamesh fails every time and Shirou fails only when he turns his back on his ideal, failing completely to reach his goal and dying pathetically when he does, but otherwise reaching perfect happiness. In addition, it is worthy of note that Shirou's ideal, abilities, and essentially everything are discarded as fake both by himself and everyone around him. Little thought is necessary, then, to realize who is authentic.

Ninth, appearance. An image has been included for reference. Though they both look quite different at different times, there is one specific time which is most significant. At this time, Shirou has become his true self by dedicating himself to his ideal and steeling his resolve enough to impose himself upon reality. At this time, Gilgamesh has become his true self by freeing himself of his "Master" and acting however he pleases in pursuit of his goal. At this time, they look almost indistinguishable.

In conclusion, the discovery of Nasu Kinoko is clearly nothing but that the single-minded pursuit of an ideal by one who has no heroism or power to his name is enough to match the first and greatest hero. Through determination and perseverance, only that which is completely beyond the faintest hint of possibility cannot be achieved. Fate/stay night is truly a masterpiece of fiction and philosophy.

Wow.

sugoi review aniki

Sugoi monogatari, aniki.

>>2463059
not a review, faget

Sugoi....

Quite nice.

Well, it's an interesting after though and most of the comments reflect Archer mentality well, but there are a few assumptions here and there. Still, not as pompous and 'DEEP DERP' as one might expect from the size.

A product of deep thought and boredom/.

>>2463041
>>2463042
>>2463045
>>2463046
>>2463050
>>2463052
>>2463054

PRRRROBLEM

>is enough to match the first and greatest hero

Nobody can match Gilgamesh, not even Shirou or 5th Archer.
He errs at his own arrogance, because he KNOWS nobody can match him, he thinks nobody can come CLOSE to matching him (this is false, as 5th Archer would probably give him the closest run for his money apart from 4th Berserker), so he never takes anyone seriously and never fights at his maximum.
When he FINALLY gets serious, it's too late and the enemy is too close.
Imagine how short the battle would've been if he had pulled out Ea before Shirou even finished chanting Unlimited Blade Works.

>>2463085
Imagine a Shirou who can trace Avalon, though.
Plus, Ea is not completely un-defendable.

>>2463085
That's not a problem. The point is that being granted the greatness of a hero without effort on his part made Gilgamesh less able to function as one.

>>2463041
Oh, come now. Any retard playing the game with half a brain could have figured that much out.

>>2463099
I know.

>>2463093

Shirou with Avalon would have to burn himself out spamming Avalon every time Gil waves Ea.
Now, Shirou's meager prana vs. Gil's orphan-powered well.
Question: Can he pull out defensive armaments in UBW reflexively? (I.E. could Archer just grab Rho Aias off the floor like one of the swords?)

>>2463097

No, the problem is Shirou cannot match Gilgamesh, he can only match an idiot who goes by Gilgamesh. They are nothing close to equals in skill in ANY form.

>>2463107
>Question: Can he pull out defensive armaments in UBW reflexively? (I.E. could Archer just grab Rho Aias off the floor like one of the swords?)
I read through the description when typing this up and I think it mentioned that he could, actually. Though there was something about some sort of additional penalty attached to it, I think.

>No, the problem is Shirou cannot match Gilgamesh, he can only match an idiot who goes by Gilgamesh. They are nothing close to equals in skill in ANY form.
You can be the most skilled in anything and get your ass kicked in it because you've grown overconfident as a result. Also, Shirou is superior to Gilgamesh in swordsmanship and magic.

>>2463097
How can you say Gilgamesh became a hero without any effort? One does not effortlessly become a king of the entire world, still be famous millennia later, and fight wars as a heroic spirit.

>>2463099
Wanna count the people with LESS?

>>2463129
For Gilgamesh, that takes about as much effort as it takes for a NEET to read a VN. Not really worth mentioning...

>>2463120

>Though there was something about some sort of additional penalty attached to it, I think.

That's to pull them OUT of UBW.

When he's IN UBW, there's no cost for anything other than maintaining UBW, and any sword he thinks about is laying around. I'm just wondering if shields can be there too.

>You can be the most skilled in anything and get your ass kicked in it because you've grown overconfident as a result.

That's Gil's fault, not Shirou's merit.

>Also, Shirou is superior to Gilgamesh in swordsmanship and magic.

Gilgamesh is neither a swordsman nor a mage. He's a wrestler, according to legend.

>>2463141
>I'm just wondering if shields can be there too.
In that case, they can. Or so UBW's description indicates.

>That's Gil's fault, not Shirou's merit.
Faults and merits must both be considered for both parties.

>Gilgamesh is neither a swordsman nor a mage. He's a wrestler, according to legend.
Naturally. That's why Shirou beats him.

>>2463150

>Faults and merits must both be considered for both parties.

It's a bit different to say "a diligent hardworker can line up against the best of the best" than "a diligent hardworker can line up against the best of the best so long as he's an idiot".

>Naturally. That's why Shirou beats him.

That's just a compatibility error with Gilgamesh and the weapons in Gate of Babylon, being the opposite effect of Shirou's ability to Trace the History of weapons to wield them like their owner. Situational advantage, not a merit or a fault. Shirou's ability to Trace History wasn't gotten through hard work, it was gotten through THAT'S HOW TRACING WORKS.

>>2463139
Now, maybe Nasu cared about the sources for his characters, maybe not. However, If he intended to incorporate the level of depth you describe, he certainly could not have afforded to ignore them. And just looking at Sparknotes you can tell that his life was filled with trials and tribulations.

>>2463162
>It's a bit different to say "a diligent hardworker can line up against the best of the best" than "a diligent hardworker can line up against the best of the best so long as he's an idiot".
It sounds to me like your argument is with Nasu, then.

>That's just a compatibility error with Gilgamesh and the weapons in Gate of Babylon, being the opposite effect of Shirou's ability to Trace the History of weapons to wield them like their owner. Situational advantage, not a merit or a fault. Shirou's ability to Trace History wasn't gotten through hard work, it was gotten through THAT'S HOW TRACING WORKS.
I'm guessing you didn't pay attention when it kept going on about how Shirou was more skilled in combat... because it did.

>>2463139
Now, maybe Nasu cared about the sources for his characters, maybe not. However, If he intended to incorporate the level of depth you describe, he certainly could not have afforded to ignore them. And just looking at Sparknotes you can tell that Gilgamesh's life was filled with trials and tribulations.

>>2463176

>It sounds to me like your argument is with Nasu, then.

Probably. Gilgamesh is an awesome hero, and only his fight with Saber in Fate was a real defeat.

>I'm guessing you didn't pay attention when it kept going on about how Shirou was more skilled in combat... because it did.

Shirou's combat skill is pathetically terribad, and could only ever match up with Shinji-Rider off-mount, and that's only thanks to his natural talent at Mind's Eye (True). The only reason he holds his own against Gilgamesh is his ability to Trace the history of his weapons and know how to fight with them, even if they shatter at one slash.

>>2463178
>Gilgamesh's life was filled with trials and tribulations.
Pretty much all of which he dealt with easily through just being very well-off, though.

>>2463216

Isn't that because, y'know, he's so skilled and powerful and awesome?

>>2463222
Yes.
His biggest failure is not staying asleep for 7 days and letting a snake drink his potion.

>>2463046
>both Gilgamesh and Shirou belong to the Archer class despite having little involvement with it in their lives and having no great talent with the bow.

Actually Shirou has a lot of talent with the bow. That's part of why Shinji hates him so much - he joins the club and immediately outshines everyone.

>>2463185
>Gilgamesh is an awesome hero, and only his fight with Saber in Fate was a real defeat.

You're forgetting him being utterly jobbed by Sakura's shadow.

>>2463245

>Actually Shirou has a lot of talent with the bow. That's part of why Shinji hates him so much - he joins the club and immediately outshines everyone.

The only time Shirou ever wields a bow in combat is against Berserker, which is the most futile effort ever.

>You're forgetting him being utterly jobbed by Sakura's shadow.

PFfffffffffffFFFFFFFFFfffffFFFt.
I spat out my drink thrice over.
You're calling that a real fight?!

>>2463216
Well, yeah, I guess I kinda see your point. Being well off really helped when the gods decided to give Enkidu an illness to kill him. His "well-off"ness made his quest for immortality almost painless, and when he had to take a test to obtain it, he passed it easily with flying colors, right?

>>2463245
>Actually Shirou has a lot of talent with the bow. That's part of why Shinji hates him so much - he joins the club and immediately outshines everyone.
He has a lot of talent compared to Shinji, probably. But Shinji is bad at everything.

>>2463245
With all due respect, throwing a few swords, then turning your fucking BACK on something you don't really know what can do just begs for an asskicking.

'I won't use Ea on a punk like you, it's only for Saber, it's not like you can hurt me...Wait, Reality Marble, what the WOAH- My sword, where is it it AGHHHH MY ARM'

'Prepare yourself Saber, As I unleash Ea, it's not like you can evade the attack again, especially if I prep you for it, Damn I'm Fabulous.
Wait, why does it not work, let me try again GOD MY INNARDS ARE SLASHED'

'Sorry little girl, you were just Gate of Babylowned. HAHAHHAHAHA, damn I'm good, now the girl surely lies dead in her own blood...Wait, are these tentacles...Black?
What the HMNGFFFFF'

>>2463250
>>2463252
Shirou actually had incredible talent with the bow.
Always shooting the target, and only missed when he wanted to miss. But Shooting against Berserker with a random bow has nothing to do with talent.

>>2463255
Actually, he failed the initial taste (stay awake meditating for 7 days and knights)

>>2463252
He was the best in the club, while he was a member. That means he was better than all the others as well, not just Shinji.

>>2463250
>You're calling that a real fight?!
It was a fight, and Gil lost badly. Really, really badly.

>>2463264
I know that. I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but I was being sarcastic. It is a little hard to convey through text, I'll give you that.

>>2463255
>Being well off really helped when the gods decided to give Enkidu an illness to kill him.
He didn't save Enkidu, did he?

>His "well-off"ness made his quest for immortality almost painless
Comparatively.

>and when he had to take a test to obtain it, he passed it easily with flying colors, right?
Trying to stay awake for a long time doesn't exactly help you as a hero...

GIRUGAMESH

>>2463264
>Always shooting the target, and only missed when he wanted to miss.

Hence why Archer has Mind's Eye and Clairvoyance. Natural progression from talents he had while still the young Shirou.

>>2463270
>>2463264
I was kinda being sarcastic there. It's hard to convey through text, though, I'll give you that.
Here, I'll state what I was trying to say plainly:
Gilgamesh's life was clearly filled with hardship, and was not the easygoing, pleasure-seeking lifestyle implicated in OP's posts and >>2463216.

>>2463120
The additional penalty is that he's using his body parts to form the shield, every petal that breaks does great damage to his body.

Guys, why are we discussing F/SN GIlgamesh when we could be talking about Fate/Zero Gil?
You know, the one with a fucking nuclear spaceship?

>>2463303
...Cause the focus right now is his backstory, which is the same no matter where he appeared?

>>2463297
I thought it just used double mana to trace?

>>2463303
I really should get around to reading Fate/Zero. Is it full-translated yet?

>>2463307
You forget that F/Z Gil raped everything in sight and actually fought his enemies. F/SN Gil is WOMEN AND CHILDREN LOL
That, and their personalities are different.

tl;dr

>>2463316

Nope.

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Fate/Zero
Up to Volume 2, Act 8, Part 2.

>>2463332

So it's ALMOST half-way complete.

... This will be a while.

am i the only one who think that the F/SN Gilgamesh seems to be the gilgamesh at the beginning of his epic since it was stated that he was a tyrant who exploited his subordinates till he met enkidu.

remember that he was depicted as more benevolent and even called a role model of a king after his journeys.

>>2463332
Call me when it's done in two years.

>>2463562
>remember that he was depicted as more benevolent and even called a role model of a king after his journeys.

You have to remember that we're talking about city-state kings, in this context. Gilgamesh, even after getting dipped in the grail, is benevolent in comparison to other kings of his age.

>>2463255
The fact is that he cried womanly tears when Enkidu died and as a matter of fact he thought Enkidu is just asleep. Then the worm came out of Enkidu's eye and THEN Gil realized his friend isn't alive anymore. After that he, if I remember correctly, spent few years running around the world clad in animal fur and when he finally came to senses, he realized that if he doesn't want worms in the brain, he has to become immortal. So he went and tried.

And there is a fuckton of traces on how they were gar, I mean gay for each other.

>>2463321
"All evils of the world, you say? Bring at least three times the amount and I may even become a lolicon"

>>2463309
Not the one you're replying to, but I'm guessing shields aren't really that compatible with UBW.

I was also confused during Shirou vs. Gil fight in UBW. I wasn't sure if Shirou was talking about Archer or himself when he stated that his body was now full of holes and his mouth was trickling with blood. However, I'm pretty sure Archer deployed the shield.

>>2463768
Shirou was talking about himself and he was fighting alone. Archer didn't help him until the very end. Rho Aias is a shield and exists in UBW. Shirou pulled it out from the hill.

>>2463724
Enkidu was probably the only man in the world that came close to him in anything, he was pretty much the only person on earth to Gil's eyes.
And as you know, in antiquity, gay sex was a common thing between friends, because women are women

>>2463784
I heard it was stated in some side material that Archer did, in fact, deploy Aias. Besides, Shirou never saw Aias inside Archer's UBW.

>>2463041
Sugoi story OP.

You just made a copy pasta fodder for all future character A vs character B analysis.

>>2463826
And you just encouraged its use.

>>2463813
Wow, I read that as Aids..

>>2463813
Shirou became Archer. It didn't matter if he saw it, anymore. The two existing in the same place was enough to change Shirou, once Shirou began down the same path.

Unless you provide side material in question, which is unlikely, it says in the game that Shirou pulls "the shield from that hill" to protect himself. That's why he had "one eye open." Archer wouldn't have had the mana to use it, anyway.

>>2463830

Yeah I already save it for future use.
Gonna try to write up a Rin vs Sakura analysis when I got time.

>>2463915
I see what you'll do there

>>2463864
http://nrvnqsr.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1629&page=4

I read it from there. In hindsight, that was pretty stupid of me.

>>2463969
lol, Beast's Lair.

>>2464003
I just replayed the scene in question. Unless they changed it remarkably in Realta Nua, whoever made that claim is a faggot.

>>2464003
are you a fucking faggot?

>>2464991
No, but you apparently are, for bumping a 4-hour-old thread to ask that inane question.