/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>2636174
SakuraKO, yes. That whore in your picture, no.

Why does everyone hate Sakura? HF is the most hardcore, awesome fucking route.

I do. A lot of fags don't.

I like Sakura. Sakura is a slut is just a meme.

She's better than Saber anyway

I liked Sakura until I found out she was a rape victim.

Kinda bland but Dark Sakura is sex incarnate

>>2636195
>HF
>amazing route

>>2636229

HF was better than UBW

>>2636224

Funny: I didn't like her until I found out she was a rape victim.

Japan and is "perfect wife" ideal can go fuck itself.

>>2636229
>>2636232

:3

Sakura is fine, but UBW is the best route.

>>2636232

oh god...

>>2636232

Agree.

Of course I know many in /jp likes UBW more because they like shounen.

(And funny enough it seems Japan likes Fate the best ... go figure)

Gilgamesh = Lancer = Iskander = Berserker (UBW) > Saber = Assassin > Rider = Caster > Archer > True Assassin = Avenger

>>2636265
>shounen
>eroge
Ok.

Nah. She's boring, clingy, cowardly, whiny, and doesn't have enough positive qualities to make up for it.

>>2636282
>Gilgamesh = Lancer = Iskander = Berserker (Zero) > Saber = Assassin = Rider > Caster = Archer > True Assassin = Avenger

Fixed that for you.

>>2636282

How the fuck are Lancer and Berserker in the same league with Gil at all? He kills the fuck out both of them without even lifting a finger in the Fate/UBW routes.

Iskander though is worthy. A fight between him and Gil while he still had his chariot would've been epic.

>>2636302
Awesomeness > Powerlevels

HF is the best route because RIDER FUCK YEAH

>>2636317

>Awesomeness

>True Assassin and Avenger at the bottom

Pardon?

>>2636296

I have a lot of issues with UBW, its also the one that is very close to the shounen archtype stories.

UBW is the "saving everyone" (if you discount Ilya) as Shiro becames the typical shounen hero ... well almost because UBW is Archer Route that is why I dislike it since Rin is STILL a supporting character, Shiro is made useless so Archer can win (yes, he "wins" against Archer ... big fucking deal considering how it ends) and nothing on the story arc itself was very interresting ... Caster just could not stand to be the "main" enemy of the Arc as Ilya did in Fate as Gilmesh is simply not fit as the "final boss", yes ... he was in Fate but not as a replacement of Kotomine.

I like Rin more, but I don't hate Sakura.

>>2636377
>Shiro is made useless so Archer can win (yes, he "wins" against Archer ... big fucking deal considering how it ends)
So Shirou "wins"...but is made "useless" and doesn't win, because Archer shows up again at the end. Right.

UBW and HF are both entertaining routes

>>2636410

No, because at the end Archer saves everyone ... not Shiro, not Saber, not Rin ... Archer.

>>2636195
This

>>2636441

Except...

[X] Tohsaka removed the core of the Grail (with Archer's help, admittedly, but he couldn't do it himself even if he wanted to as Servants can't touch the mud)
[X] Saber exploded the grail (Archer's rain of swords only made it writhe)
[X] Shirou would've killed Gil alone had the above not distracted them both

>>2636441
So? Shirou wanted everyone to be saved, so his goal was achieved. It doesn't really matter if it was his future self who did it, that doesn't mean that he lost. Nor was he useless considering the other things he did in the route.

Here we go again.

Nothing that happens in UBW was not already done in Fate ... destroyed the Grail? too bad there is still the Greater Grail and everything can be repeated.

The only FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF moment is Archer being Shiro, that is if you did not pieced that up from Fate.

And thank you all for proving my point ... (also it ends my replies)

>>2636483

>Nothing that happens in UBW was not already done in Fate

Reality Marble.

Fate and UBW are just introductions to the real meat of the story, Heaven's Feel.

>>2636195

It's the worst route, for many many reasons. And not only the moralfag reasons.

>>2636505

I personally didn't like Heaven's Feel mainly because I found it incredibly painful for Shirou to be doing all these terrible things, particularly when I'd loved his character previously. What annoyed me the most however was the fact that the story tried to make you feel responsible for this (Kill saber etc). However, in reality it pigeonholed the reader into these choices, and so it really just annoyed me.

Heaven's Feel had far too many pointless H scenes. FAR too many, really broke the flow of the story.

>>2636546
No it's not.

>>2636569
I hated how for the first 10 days or so nothing happens. But just enough plot relevant stuff is revealed so your first time through you can't exactly just ctrl over it.

>>2636573
Yes it is, I agreed, you are wrong.

>>2636573

Contradiction is pretty pointless. Why do you disagree?

Daddy didn't love her.

I'd really like to see a heaven's feel route where saber survives and Shirou tries to keep to his ideal. I think that would be really interesting. Considering it's much more grimdark than the other routes it would probably make for a better story than Shirou's whatever I just want to help Sakura motivation. I mean, his ideal doesn't REALLY get tested in the same way that it could in Heaven's Feel.

HF is my favourite route, but I think Sakura is by far the worst character in the game. I never liked him since Fate route, and I was expecting something better in HF, but the more I knew about her, the more I hated her. It doesn't help that she keeps saying that she is not fit for Shirou because she isn't a virgin.

>>2636579
Welcome to FSN.

This same shit was said about Fate when it was released and exploded on this very board after UBW was released.

More like Fate/shit sux.

I cried manly tears at the mind of steel ending.

...Then hated everything after it.

>>2636600
Yeah, we need a remake with MIND OF STEEL route.

>>2636617

Mind of steel isn't really Shirou's ideal. It's similar, but not really the same. It's also implied that Shirou becomes like Kiritsugu, which is certainly not Shirou's ideal. (That said, I really doubt that would happen. His motivations at that point are nothing like Kiritsugu's whatsoever.)

>>2636600

Saber had to die because she would be completely incompatible with Shirou in Heaven's Feel. Can you imagine Saber's reaction to sparing Sakura?

>>2636558

Pigeonholed? I didn't pick kill Saber the first time through, and if you mean pigeonholed as in 'wrong choices = bad ends' then pretty much every route does that, HF is the only route where the bad ends are fucking amazing awesome.

Also, I liked Sakura, I found her guilt tripping relatively appropriate to her character and experiences. UBW is my least favorite route, as power-ups from protecting friends and wanting to be a hero generally fall into shounen land, even if UBW was obviously presented better than the generic shounen shit you'd think of.

Ayako route was the best.

>>2636649

The other routes don't present this kind of choice though. Things like the mind of steel choice were really annoying, mainly because after that Shirou kept going 'This is what I chose', implying that the player's choice was what motivated this. Only the player was forced into it. Same with killing Saber.

HF is not Sakura's route.
It is the route of the cute psycho loli and the badass priest.

>>2636657

So if Mind of Steel was longer then you'd be fine, as the sort of huge decision that affects how he behaves from now on should be an actual branch rather than a good/bad end situation? I can't necessarily disagree with that, though I can sort of fill in the gaps for Mind of Steel and treat it as its own branch anyways.

Also I forgot to mention... Given that I didn't hate Sakura like most people seem to, knowing HF's information totally fucking ruins the endings of Fate and UBW, especially UBW as they go to the fucking effort of saving Shinji, and he's a complete dick.

>>2636664

I'm sure Shirou will save Sakura in the future :3

>>2636582
Well you didn't give any reasons either so I didn't feel the need to elaborate. HF has an interesting story, batshit insane Sakura, good battles, Kotomine actually becoming an interesting character and not just a generic villain, moving moments like Saber's death, and the best climax and ending in the entire game. That's easily enough to place it above Fate and even challenge UBW for best route.

>>2636649
>power-ups from protecting friends

Fate was the best route. Disagree and you are WRONG.

>>2636657

It is what Shirou chose.
He probably wouldn't make the other choice

>>2636669
I never thought of Kotomine as a generic villain. He just always seemed cool, but never expanded upon properly.

Then bam, he's fighting servants and challenging Shirou to the manliest of fisticuffs.

>>2636664
>the fucking effort of saving Shinji, and he's a complete dick.
As the story seems to imply, Zouken made some kind of brainwash with Shinji over the years since Sakura was adopted, to make him believe he is superior to everyone else, and therefore, easy to manipulate

>>2636688

Really? I thought it was terribly out of character for him. I also thought that if you look in the reasoning for each choice he describes, the save Sakura one seems very out of the blue.

Sakura Sena? Fuck yeah, she's awesome.

>>2636700
Shinji wasn't brainwashed. That was his true personality. Zouken encouraged him to abuse Sakura behind the scenes, but he also didn't give a second's worth of time thinking about Shinji personally, since Shinji was absolutely useless to him without the potential to be a magus.

Zouken ignored him, Sakura pitied him, and Shirou didn't even really know the guy.

Out of interest, does anyone REALLY think Shirou made the right choice in HF? It seems fantastically retarded to me.

>>2636626
Mind of Steel is when Shirou chooses the "optimal" resolution to the dissonance in his ideal. It's Kiritsugu's path, compromising with reality to get as close to the ideal as possible. They discuss it in UBW: if everyone cannot be saved, then it is optimal to kill as few as possible to save as many as possible.

>>2636669
>batshit insane Sakura
Sakura wasn't batshit insane. She was just emo and lashing out because she was upset.

>>2636722
Which is what Archer did, and look where that got him.

UBW Shirou's ideal is best: save the people you can within reach of you. Keep persevering through everything, because so long as the ideal is maintained and you keep trying, it's fine. It's not the end if someone gets hurt.

>>2636717
It's not too wrong. There's just better choices.

No, really, what's good about Sakura?

>>2636717
I do, but I'm not getting into that shitstorm again.

>>2636748
1. More ero scenes.
2. Willing to do stuff that Saber and Rin wouldn't likely want to do.
3. ???

>>2636717

In all honesty I agree.

>>2636737

I seriously need to reread UBW. It's the only route in Fate/Stay Night I thought was above average.

I thought Fate was pretty meh until Gil showed up.

And HF for me was only bad except for Ilya and Kotomine. And it's amazing how all of the bad ends are better than the true end.

>>2636777

That's true, the true end seemed really stupid. It seemed like one of the 'good' ends. Bring in an extremely bullshit plot device in order to have a stupidly happy ending. Shirou was NOT going to live. And where is the whole paying for his sins that we heard so much about?

Fate is the boringest, shittiest route and Saber is a much better character when she's not forced into a stupid moeblob role. She is bad/ass/ in F/Z principally because there's no Shirou around to fuck things up with his retardation.

UBW is pretty cool too, Archer owns and it's got way more Gilgamesh which is always pleasant.

And say what you will about HF, but once the attack on Zouken begins the bar for badassery is set to the top and remains there.

>>2636841

Here is your typical Shounen fan.

>And say what you will about HF, but once the attack on Zouken begins the bar for badassery is set to the top and remains there.

Zouken and True Assassin were horrible villains. And really Black Berserker and Saber weren't that great.

The only badassery brought to the table is by Kotomine after the attack on Zouken.

But meh, opinions.

>>2636844
The joys of summer

If you're upset about the shitty good end in HF, you'll be happy to read Fate/zero. Bad ends for everyone.

>>2636851

What? Whoever said any of us disliked happy endings? We just hate ones that are tacked on with some stupid plot device. Like UBW's good end. Sure it was nice, but completely stupid and complete bullshit.

>>2636857

Whoops, keep forgetting to put "I" instead of "We".

My mistake.

>>2636848

You call May summer? I'd think it's pretty Shounen like to claim that a route is good due to its level of 'badassery'

>>2636838
>Shirou was NOT going to live.
It's not like F/SN is a realistic story in any way. Anything can happen so don't complain just because the story didn't progress the way you wanted it to.

>And where is the whole paying for his sins that we heard so much about?
HF Normal end? Or whatever the one where he dies is called.

>>2636860

You don't take the alternative endings seriously though. Personally, I would switch the true and normal endings around. It makes a lot more sense.

>>2636857
I feel that if you are going to cheese up an ending, really lay it on thick.

Too little and it sucks but too much and it becomes good in its own way.

Sakura is my favourite. Does this mean I "REALLY" like her? No. I just like her way more than the other two. If it's ALL the girls, then she's number 3 after Rider and Caster (those two I "REALLY" like).

And HF is also my favourite route. UBW is higher on the awesome scale, with Archer, etc., but HF is like the complete story...we see Angra Mainyu, Dark Sakura, Zouken, True Assassin deeper relationship with Illy, more Rider, and the final battle with Kotomine is the greatest of them all. No weapons. No magic. Just fists.

>>2636851

Never said I liked bad ends. I just dislike good ends that make no fucking sense. Especially one like this which is something you'd find in a children's movie or One Piece.

>>2636838

>Shirou was NOT going to live.

Wait a second.

He DIDN'T.

They had to bring in a MIRACLE (THIRD MOTHERFUCKING SORCERY) and give him a new body.

I don't give a shit about routes, I just know that in term of waifus, here is how that shit breaks down

Sakura > Rin > Saber

Big tits win every time.

>>2636872

Through some unholy bullshit plot device. That was highly improbable even for Nasu's standards. But hell, this is Nasu.

>Big tits win every time.

What the- Nevermind, just noticed it was Friday.

>>2636878

Nasu, who has created the best, deepest and most interesting fictional universe in years. Your point?

>>2636878

>Through some unholy bullshit plot device.

Yeah, that whole "Third Sorcery" thing totally wasn't able to bring back the dead, Servants totally don't exist and Gilgamesh is totally not alive again.
It's the base fucking clause of the Holy Grail War, get over it.

>That was highly improbable even for Nasu's standards.

Yeah, the Miracle-working Sorcerers totally didn't exist by THE TSUKIHIME PROLOGUE.


You're an idiot.

>>2636860

Yes, its the normal end were he brings down the sword instead of trying to figure out a way to stay alive.

Of course Ilya hinted that she was going to do something so its not much a "ass pull" or "coop out", the only thing someone could complain about was Zouken "humanization" at the end (but it really shows how things can be, Archer ended up in a similar way).

>>2636883

>best, deepest

...Snrk.

The man can entertain someone, yes, but deep? I wouldn't go that far, anonymous.

>Sakura > Rin > Saber

>>2636876
By that logic, Luvia is better than Rin.

She is, but for reasons other than just tits.

>>2636890

>Yeah, that whole "Third Sorcery" thing totally wasn't able to bring back the dead
>Yeah, the Miracle-working Sorcerers totally didn't exist by THE TSUKIHIME PROLOGUE.

Where did I even imply, that the third sorcery was the improbability?

Because that certainly wasn't it.

>>2636906

Well, what's the improbability, then?

It's a plot device that has been there THE ENTIRE STORY.

You honestly didn't think it was going to be used?

FSN didn't let you rape anyone so the game is inferior anyways.

Shinji should've been the protagonist.

>>2636915

Finding a host body for his soul while he was underground and rocks were falling on top of everything.

>>2636906

You call it plot device despite Ilya mention the basic works of body transfer well before the ending as the 3rd sorcerory being mentioned several times.

You can call it "lame" when it comes from the blue with little or no previous explination but there was significant foreshadow of HL true ending.

If you want to call something lame, try Kotomine "dead man walking" ... now that fits the bill.

>>2636925

But they didn't.

Did you miss the fact that they had to find a master puppet maker for a new body?

Ilyasviel just took Shirou's soul out of there, leaving his body to get crushed.

>>2636935

Oh right. I forgot about that. Ah well.

>>2636925

Body?

No, no, no, no ... pendant, the same one that summoned Archer, saved Shiro life, etc ...

This, Nine Bullet Revolver, and Sparks Liner Higher are the only good parts of HF

>>2636948
Sparks Liner Higher? What the hell is that?

>>2636948

>Nine Bullet Revolver

Ehhh. I thought it was pretty damn underwhelming.

>>2636948
Mind of Steel.

>>2636969

I believe he means "Sparks Liner High".

Bad End 38, going without Rider's help, solo Shirou vs. Dark Saber.

>>2636969
Sparks Liner High, the bad end where Shirou defeats Dark Saber on his own

>>2636978
Ah ok

I like Rider's fight with Dark Saber.

The good parts of HF are all of it. Black Saber vs. Rider, Shirou vs. Dark Berserker, Kotominei vs. Fucking Everything.

Jesus, people.

>>2636999

KAMEHAME-

>>2636999
>>2637017
fight was freakin awesome. I instantly thought DBZ beam struggle.

>>2637022

Hence the reason I disliked it.

>>2636971
best be joking

Kohaku > Sakura

>>2637046

I'm being serious. I guess it was just the atmosphere or something but I was completely overwhelmed by Shiro's UBW but when I saw this I thought..."Meh, UBW was much better."

>>2636325

Ex-fucking-catly,

Rider was the only reason I was bothered to play HF.

>>2637035

I'm sorry, maybe a game where you go to school and frantically try to plan a club festival while balancing the affections of four variously moe love interests is more up your alley.

What the fuck are you expecting exactly and why are you in this thread? It's pretty clear you don't even like FSN so I have to assume you're just trolling.

>>2637061

I WASN'T EXPECTING A BEAMU FROM RIDER.

Let alone one of the same color of the one of Goku's from DBZ. Honestly, I've tired of seeing beams in like everything after DBZ and this is no exception. I love action but come on they could've done this fight much better without a beam.

>>2637070

>Let alone one of the same color of the one of Goku's from DBZ

Kamehameha wave is blue-white, Bellerophon is just white.

Also, Bellerophon technically is not a beam, it is a projectile that leaves a wake. More like a comet.

>>2637076

Like that makes it look any less like a beam from DBZ.

>>2637070

Oh? like its not THE SAME FUCKING ATTACK she used before in Fate?

>>2637080

Well, there's the fact that it's not shooting out of anyone's hands.

In fact, Rider herself is riding Pegasus in the attack, so she's right in the FRONT of that 'beam', which if it was a beam would be rather silly.

>>2637070
Did you forget the scene where Rider slashes her own neck to form a circle that destroyed the school hallway in Fate?

Yeah, she does it again in HF.

>>2637089

It's not different. I'm just saying I disliked the horse suddenly looking like a beam in HF.

>>2637090

>In fact, Rider herself is riding Pegasus in the attack, so she's right in the FRONT of that 'beam', which if it was a beam would be rather silly.

In Fate she's riding it. In HF it looked like she just fired the horse out by itself to me.

>>2637108

I know. But like I said.

I WAS EXPECTING IT TO LOOK LIKE A HORSE NOT A BEAM.

>>2637113

>it looked like she just fired the horse out by itself to me

Doesn't work that way.

Rider is "Rider" for a reason.
Bellerophon as it is are just golden reigns, Pegasus itself has nothing to do with the Noble Phantasm.

>>2637012

You forget Tohsaka whipping out Zelretch.

I'd say HF is the most conclusive, exciting route and by all accounts it seems the canon route going by F/Z's layout.

The one shitty thing is that Gilgamesh gets killed stupidly right off the bat and isn't able to do shit. I think it would've been awesome if they'd actually tried to delve into him some as well like they had with nearly all the other servants and have him and Dark Saber both like, kill each other or something.

>>2637122

Feh. Reasons or not, I really didn't care for the fight in general. I already had it in Fate and in Fate they fought up the side of a building. This one was just boring to me.

>>2637123

>And meet Dark Saber and have them like...kill each other.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought this route could use some more Gil.

>>2637123
There is no canon route.

I think Bellerophon has two versions....

The comet style horse and the BEAAAAAAAMMMMMMMU!

>>2637123
There is no canon route. It was done like that on purpose.

>>2637123

>it seems the canon route going by F/Z's layout.

... What?

... WHAT?

How in the hell did you reach that conclusion?

>>2637123
They showed Gilgamesh as a good guy killing an evil monster also he was trying to make Sakura commit suicide. Besides he was shown as awesome isn't Sakura strong enough to summon hundreds of monsters each as strong as Excalibur and he 'killed' her once.

>>2637153
Kiritsugu doesn't want to be a hero of justice. He just wanted to live happily with his waifu.

Shirou doesn't want to be a hero of justice. He just wants to live happily with his waifu

>>2637153

A bunch of shit in F/Z basically hinges on HF occurring.

>>2637153
He's just a dumbass.

They're alternate realities. They're all "canon" in their own timelines.

I like how Gilgamesh,Lancer,Kuzuki and Assassin had like NO SPRITES.

>>2637173

He always wanted to be a hero of justice.

Besides, his deredere mode ends after Irisviel dies.

>>2637183

Kara no Kyoukai is the only TM thing to officially exist in a parallel reality. Everything else occurs in the same universe. One route is true, the others are fake. Deal.

>>2637182
>F/Z hinges on HF
Reverse causality? You lost me.

>>2637185

Okay, yeah, the fact that all the UBW villains (except Archer) got cut out immediately was unfair.

>>2637192

Zelretch and Archer want to punch you.

>>2637192
Now you aren't even trying.

>>2637193
Lancer got sick of getting fucked and Gae Bolg'd the Fate franchise.

>>2637183

They are not, they are routes but they do not invalidate previous events that are common to every route.

F/Z is the 4th Grail War, the 5th Grail War is F/SN but still the events of the 4th Grail War do not change.

In short, Sakura is always Rin's Sister no matter what route you are playing , Rider is always the Sakura Servent (even if you only get to know that in HF), Archer is Shiro (even if you only get to know that in UBW), etc ...

>>2636229
You can't use no-words.jpg! That's my image!

>>2637198
And there i was preparing for a CG of gil being tentacle raped by Sakura.

>>2637210

Fate and UBW don't resolve the fact that Grail War will continue or the fact that Sakura is a ticking time bomb at all. They in no way bring the series to proper completion.

You know what Fate and UBW missed?

Zouken still lives.

>>2637210
>They are not, they are routes but they do not invalidate previous events that are common to every route.

That's the fucking point. They're each a separate continuity that stem from a common backstory.

>>2636174
I am not a big fan of of the Sakura Shinji final encounter, because afterwards it's just "lol I'm full crazy now" even though her reasoning for resisting was sound. I definitely do not hate her character, it's mostly understandable to be in that sort of frame of mind given the background. Ultimately though, Rin is superior.

>>2637219
>>2637224

That has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Fate/Zero.

>>2637192

That is not extractly true ... there is no "one is the true ending and the rest are not",even in F/H A there was mix of all routes despite it having to rely on HF route to make sense (after all, we only get to know about Avenger in HF and how its only on HF that the Great Grail is destroyed).

Type-Moon does not make a "official ending".

>>2637233

There may not be a de facto canon ending where TM is concerned, but everything you just mentioned (Plus Zouken and all that) kinda make HF implicitly the route that must have happened.

>>2637253
Except UBW is canon, because Rin is a better protagonist who doesn't end up dying.

>>2637232

I wasn't talking about F/Z, fuckface. Different person, and the argument still applies.

>>2637253
ALL OF THEM HAPPEN

GODDAMN HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND

>>2637266

BECAUSE TWO OF THEM DON'T FUCKING RESOLVE THINGS TO COMPLETION.

Every route resolves the Holy Grail War.

Fate and UBW = Waver purges the shit from the great Holy Grail
HF = Shirou destroys the great Holy Grail

>>2637253

Well I do agree with you but I know a lot of people do not like the idea of HF being made the "official" route and Type-Moon seem to avoid the issue by making F/HA pretty much a fan disk that arguable cannot be taken as "canon" (since it never actually "happens").

IIRC The Grail War is dismantled by grown-up Waver in either Fate or UBW (Maybe both of them?) so that resolves the problem of the Great Grail still being around at least.

Zouken and Sakura's inner yandere are still a problem though.

>>2637219
I disagree. F/SN was Shirou's story, not "the story of the end of the holy grail war".

>>2637275
That doesn't mean that they "don't happen". For fucks sake.

>>2637276

.... No, its still there since ... you know ... the Grail was destroyed in the 4th Grail War and in order to actually "clean it" you have to do destroy the Greater Grail since its here is actually IS, not in the Grail.

>>2637281
Zouken then Gives up on reaching Akasha if the Great Holy Grail is destroyed and Shinji either becomes good or dead.

>>2637283

Shirou is an annoying, naive and shitty fuckface; HF is the only route where he actualls mans up and becomes interesting. Still wrong.

>>2637287

You underestimate Lord El-Melloi II's manliness.

>>2637281

That is fan "rationalization" of the worst kind, nothing on the epilogues give any type of support for that.

In Fate and UBW there is still a possibility of a 6th Grail War, in HF there is none.

>>2637297

Character Material, bro.

>>2637294
So...what does that have to do with my post?

UBW don't impress me much. Because he was like a gay fanboy to Archer at that time... and the only thing that made me notice shirou is when he casts the reality marble.

>>2637297

It was retconned. Fifth War is the final war, no matter what.

>>2637297
Word of God, bro.

>>2637283
Fate = Saber's story
UBW = Archer's story
HF = True Holy Grail war

>>2637307

>HF = Fake Holy Grail war

It appears that you forgot that whole "Sakura isn't the True Grail" thing went over your head.

It kinda sucks really because more grail wars would be fun. I kinda hope they'll keep going back and showing us how the Third, Second and First Grail Wars went down too whether through books or VNs or whatever.

>>2637307
Fate: Saber's story
UBW: Shirou's story
HF: Bizarro Shirou's story

>>2637299

So you are using a character that only shows up in HF because Rin figured out how to created the jeweled sword and shown no interrest on the Greater Grail at all during the 3rd Grail War were it was corrupted or the 4th Grail War were it was still corrupted because ...

Serious ... its not character material, either you use a character that is explicit said to be on the game (not universe, the ACTUAL game) and have proper reasoning to do it (and none have, they never acted before) or you dont.

You might as well say The World did it ...

>>2637320

>So you are using a character that only shows up in HF because Rin figured out how to created the jeweled sword

That's Zelretch, completely unrelated.

>Serious ... its not character material

Read the pages of "Load El-Melloi II".

(lol, "Load")

>>2637315

First: Oh, whoops, looks like we fucked up the grail. Our bad.
Second: Shit, broke again. Let's try next year.
Third: Okay, it seems to be working fine this ti- Oh fuck, who killed Angra? There goes our grail!

Yawn.

>>2637326
>Third: Let's summon Satan lololololol
fixed

>>2637320
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Waver_Velvet

>As Lord El-Melloi II, Waver Velvet is Tohsaka Rin's lecturer at the Magus Association and possesses an interest in the popular culture of Japan (though he likes little else about the country).
>He is responsible for dismantling the Holy Grail after the fifth Holy Grail War.

>>2637314

Except Sakura is as much as a Grail as Ilya is ... she might be a incomplete Grail but then again, so was Shinji.

You people sould at least know what you are talking about ...

>>2637320
No, there's an actual document called the "Character Material". Give it a read.

>>2637335

>Except Sakura is as much as a Grail as Ilya is ... she might be a incomplete Grail but then again, so was Shinji.

Shinji wasn't a Grail at all.
He was just a shell for Ilya's Grail, which Gil jammed in his heart.
Sakura was an incomplete Grail, and therefore fake.

I know what I'm talking about, you don't.

>>2637335
Sakura is an erotical black hole. The servants became trapped by her gravitational field and were incapable of escaping. She's a gravitational singularity, not a grail.

ORT > FSN

>>2637352

Why ya gotta be draggin' ORT into this, bro?

>>2637352

All seven servants combined ought to be able to take out ORT. Hell of a fight, though.

>>2637352
Hey newfriend. At least dedicate more time to lurking so you can learn how to troll properly.

>>2637361

No. It takes 7 COUNTER GUARDIANS (Servants + infinite mana + cannot die) to hold down Primate Murder, who isn't even near the league of Type entities like ORT.

>>2637361
If by combine you mean six of them somehow hold ORT back while Giglamesh uses Planet Killing power Ea, you'd be correct, other wise no.

>>2637343
>Sakura was an incomplete Grail, and therefore fake.
Makes you wonder why Zouken bothered with the "fake grail" stunt. It certainly blew up in his face. Guess the Einzbern's screw up with the Third Grail War didn't teach him anything.

>>2637343

No, Sakura had a shard of the Grail of the 4th Grail War ... not a Fake.

Besides the process of the container is never explained, Shinji was not suitable and was going to overflow as Sakura was intended to work as one and worked as one, also Ilya is the older sister and so "born" before the 4th Grail War that they intended to win anyway so I find strange she was build as a Grail from the get-go (after all, the container was only done when they wanted it) so the original plans for Ilya was not for be the Grail.

>>2637369

Because it almost did work? after all it was going to work as he wanted until she decided to say goodbye to grandfather ...

>>2637374

>No, Sakura had a shard of the Grail of the 4th Grail War ... not a Fake.

But still incomplete.

>Ilya

The entire line of Einzbern homonculi are Holy Grails. Born and raised.

>>2637367

I love Gil, but even Ea may not work on ORT. I think it's pretty much invincible as long as you're fighting it on Earth or something.

Take heart though; Gil is still the singular most powerful non-type entity in TM.

>>2637389

>Take heart though; Gil is still the singular most powerful non-type entity in TM.

IF HE WOULD EVER GET SERIOUS, MAYBE
But there's also top-tier Zelretch (defeated Crimson Moon with a tremendous heap of luck), and possibly the other Sorcerers.

>>2637380
Yeah, it almost worked until the girl who he tortured decided to kill him. A plan that relies on giving limitless power to someone who hates your guts? Stupid move.

>>2637389
Ea should work since it has the power to kill planets being Anti-World and all, but we don't know how Ea works at full power.

>>2637396

Well he did raise her to be pure so she would never betray him.

Kinda missed the point when she killed Shinji but still he believed she would remain loyal to him, even if just because she had no other option.

Besides its pretty in character of him because she was loyal to him up to that point and things were going according to plan, he simply made one mistake and that was enough.

>No weapons. No magic. Just fists.
FINAL DESTINATION

Well, I took that off my chest. Let's carry on.
>>2636558
So you say. I ended up on Sparks Liner High and stopped playing for a week because I knew that the real end couldn't be better. And I was right.

The normal end blew my mind though. The true end is more appropriate for a Nasu work, but the fact that the Normal one IS the last ending you see, carries some meaning.

Shirou is dead, Rin is gone, Ilya is nowhere to be found and Sakura lives on, always waiting and waiting for him. Never even thinking of another man nor anything else for that matter. She wasted all her life waiting, but she seemed happy for it. And, in the end, they got to be together. The happiest and saddest ending of them all.
It's similar to Fate's Avalon ending, but more realistic.

>>2637389
Gil can defeat anyone using Enuma Elish except for Saber w/ Avalon

>>2637430
She had zero reason to be loyal to him though. He was a bastard, after all, and had to control her through power and fear. Once she had more power than him...game over.

>>2637434
>Rin is gone
Lol no. But she does have a grandchild later on.

>>2637434
you can get the normal ending before the true ending

>>2637449

Yes, that is true but still ... as you pointed out, she was loyal despite as you said "having more power".

She simply at last snaped and decided to kill him but look at Sakura personality, she only did kill someone when she was pushed far beyond her point and she still regreat it.

Also its easy to point out the mistake he did because he almost got killed (still alive until Ilya found him) and lost but fact is his plan was working.

>205 posts and 18 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

Every fucking time.

>>2637395

Yeah but by the time FSN occurs Zelretch has grown too weaksauce to be in the running. Back in his day though FFFFF