/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>STOP! Fan-Subtitle
Is that a fansubbing-magazine or something?

the animation studios who lose asstons of money because of people watching fansubs and not going out and buying dvds and shit? gee i dunno lol

Free fan-subbing = bad
Selling copyright infringing dickgirl-rape comics = A-OK

Because in this day and age, people still think they can kill knowledge, that they can keep it from spreading, that they can make people unlearn.

Because the Japanese think the MPAA/RIAA still hold some sort of ground in America, so they can model a system after it too!

>>390360
They do.

>>390346
WRONG.

Animation studios get money in one lump sum when Amerikkkan companies buy the rights to license and distrubite it in Amerikkka.

They get NO PROFIT from sales.

>>390346
>>390386
How I get owned?

>>390386

They get royalties too these days.

And I doubt the licensing fees are paid in lump sum, that'd be an awful cash burden on the US distributors. Maybe once upon a time, when it cost like $10,000 to buy a 50 episode series, but not today when a bargain-basement series costs hundreds of thousands and expensive show might cost hundreds of thousands per episode (which, it should be noted, is more than most shows cost to *produce*.)

>>390358

Thats the thing though, most people who pirate don't know how it works and could care less. They aren't downloading it for something as abstract as knowledge, they are downloading it for the utility, in other words what it actually does. Does stopping fansubbing prevent you from learning Japanese and understanding it? No it doesn't! What it does do is force you to buy a DVD from another company the licensing rights have been sold to.

You are so full of bullshit, you just want free stuff like everyone else.

>>390406
I think he refers to the fact of the knowledge of the internet.

They've never cared about us as a market until the last few years or so. Fuck em.

>>390402
I meant more as in 'They get paid a certain amount, and that's that.'

I've heard the exact opposite, that they don't get royalties, and thus don't give a shit about anything past the companies that want to localize shit.

anime accounts for a large percentage of japanese exports

>>390410

The Internet enables the free exchange of data and the free exchange of ideas which are two different things. I have absolutely no problem with the second but the first is problematic.

>>390449

Indeed.

And it's growing too. Honestly 4chan, I like free shit as much as anyone else, but we are living in a golden age at the moment when legislative bodies and Governments, regulations etc... Simply haven't caught up to the technology. Eventually they will, there are already some pretty constrictive things in the pipeline as far as technology goes. And law will catch up too.

So my advice to you all is this: Enjoy it while it lasts, because it won't last forever.

>>390442

Companies that don't make money can't license from them in the future. It would be shortsighted to let a market die out of apathy.

>>390484
Yes, and that's the only reason Japan would care at all.

If the licensed products don't do well, they won't get more stuff licensed, and will make less money. However, fansubbing is usually of stuff that's not released in America yet/at all.

I've had stuff like Higurashi on my computer for a very long time before it was licensed and dubbed.

>>390310
source?!?!??

What magazine is that?

>>390484
This is exactly the problem. Because people are downloading the anime and not paying for it, the companies who are purchasing the rights to show it over here are not making profit. Because they aren't making profit, they are going to either go under (geneon) or stop getting the license for anime or atleast for certain types of anime. Things like naruto/bleach/one piece/dragonball always sells well, so they keep getting it. If they cant sell the other genres, then the only anime we will see coming here will be those. If that happens, a large part of the income of japanese companies now comes from its exporting overseas.. so if they can't export it, they will stop making it as well. Which means.. either it will stop coming over here period, or we'll see alot of rehashes of the same type of show.

>>390483
>>390449
how do you know that? ... That anime is an important component of the Japan's exports?? You have seen that in a web page? I'm interesting in knowing that kind of shit!

>>390406
Because people only pirate anime.

0/10 namefag

I'll help out by not watching anime and encouraging others to do the same.

>>390527
I want the North American anime market to die.

Just as planned.

>>390540

Read it in some shitty edition of wired.

It quoted some figures then talked about how fast it was growing in the American market.

Honestly, I'm pretty ok with the industry dying, for by the time the internet kills it, there will be more than enough material to consume. Why worry if people are going to make more movies, music, animu, etc. when there's already more good stuff to watch/hear than we can watch in an entire lifetime. And then we'll be in a new age, where the populace has to dedicate itself to SCIENCE.

>>390559
Considering that all good music was made in the 19th century, all good movies were made in the 70s, and all good animu was made in the 90s, I second this man. Oldfag snobbery shall rule.

>>390582
A lot of good music was made in the 1500's through the 1800's.

>>390559
>>And then we'll be in a new age, where the populace has to dedicate itself to SCIENCE

Funny thing is, if the animu industry in America were to miraculously not fail and produce something watchable for a change, we'd just get a ton of more fansubs from an expanded audience. So, if anything, strict policies of licensing only shit and shitting it further with dubs is really preventing a greater disaster. I think Japan should follow this example and only produce anime that nobody wants to see.

>>390594
Well, I'll give you 17th century because of Baroque. 17th and 19th then.

ファンサブ死ぬ！

>>390609
From what I've seen, Japan has been working on this for 30 years and they are very close to perfection.

The problem that Japan has with fansubbing isn't so much the people over here downloading it. I don't think they care about that. However, There is a large amount of Japanese people who download fansubs of anime instead of buying the DVDs.

>>390582
Good movies in the 70s? Don't make me laugh... 80's and 90's had the best movies.

10/10

>>390542

Well duh, we also pirate Windows, games, music, books, video, etc. Is it to expand our knowledge? Fuck no, we just don't want to pay money for it. We're not talking about a cure for cancer being suppressed by a greedy pharmaceutical company, its entertainment material, mostly pr0n and games. I prefer fansubs to most licensed material but there is no moral high-ground, we get it at the sufferance of the companies lax-enforcement of their copyright.

>>390635
the japanese download raws

>>391391
>The Japanese upload raws.

fandubs are the only solution

>>391391

They also buy DVDs. Shitloads of them. Lucky Star being the most recent title.

And remember when AMAZON ran out of Haruhi OP CDs. I do.

>>391391
not all of them.
the raws are usually poorly seeded so they just download the subtitled version or get it off one of their p2p programs like share/winny etc.

I've never considered buying DVDs of Anime Series and I won't. At least not those released on the American / EU market. Shit is overpriced, looks ridiculous and the subs are fucking horrible. There's absolutely no reason to buy such garbage.

And when the companies won't realize that by themselves, I couldn't care less if they die. Maybe making space for someone who knows the drill.

What most people always ignore: Internet downloads are not a proper indicator for "not selling" something. If I couldn't download anime, I would still not buy it. Then I wouldn't watch it at all. It's that simple.

sorry japs, communism works on the internets
now gb2/studio and make me some entertainment

Give us the ability to watch the episodes as they air in Japan, and subtitling for every release. If not, Fan-subs it is.

>>392301

Its not being ignored, its being dismissed as irrelevant. The fact that you aren't an income source isn't a free license to download it, when stateside companies purchase a licensing agreement they have every right to say pay or GTFO.

I agree you on the quality and price of most releases, most DVDs I have were gifts, predate the release of quality fansubs and/or high-speed Internet, or were bought at really steep discounts i.e. the Magic Knight Rayearth set I got for 75% off on clearance followed by a Borders 40% off coupon. I left my computer on for 4 days once downloading an episode of Slayers back in the dial-up days, after that I said fuck it and bought the box set. The graphics designers on some of the DVD menus should be dragged out into the street and shot.

They are not being pricks and they have every right to enforce their copyright. Most fansub groups realize they tread on unstable grounds and discontinue after a series is licensed and at least make the motions of encouraging the purchase of the licensed versions anything that was downloaded. Accept that fansubbing is on morally ambiguous ground, choose to not download or to download anyway, then move on with your life.

>>392505

I wouldn't talk about "morals" in an economic context. Marketing strategies of licensing companies are just what it is - marketing. I don't feel amoral for downloading fansubs, as well as I don't feel amoral for downloading music. In my opinion there is no realistic damage done, as it would be with stealing something from a shop (there you obtain an actual product, not just data packets).

Anyway this point of view has been discussed over 9000 times already.

tl;dr marketing and selling products got nothing to do with morals. Just because I disagree with capitalist marketing strategies, I'm not evil.

>>392516
If people did not have exclusive rights on intellectual property, no one would bother making any, or at least putting a large budget into making some.

>>392516

I wouldn't call it amoral either which is why I called it morally ambiguous. The only issue I have is claiming a moral imperative for fansubbing and pirating IP (god the /g/ thread for the Windows pirating). I consider it problematic because it sets a bad precedent for IP rights in the future.

If say I developed a game engine and tools for developing visual novels and license it out should I brush it off if some guy says 'shit sux', makes games with it anyway, then says I should be grateful for the attention my shitty engine got out of it since he wouldn't have used it if he had no choice but to pay? Instead should I have to waste time obfuscicating my code introducing the possibility of bugs and add in further copy protection that hassles users?

>>392564
>>392516
amoral = morally neutral
immoral = morally bad

>>392516
What about countries where you can't buy any good Anime ? Where there are only few titles, most of them shity. What then?

If western dubbers didn't fuck it up so badly (ie: 4kids and editing content for "think of the children!" mentalities), and take forever to release stuff, there wouldn't be such a problem.

>>392572

Eh, it is also used to mean "lacking in morals" or "without morals." I will concede that "immoral" would have fit the context better.

>>392598

They targeted a market and went with it. If they targeted a more general market and it flopped would you or anyone else who benefited pick up the slack? In some cases the slow release date has to do with pacing the product to the market. If you flooded the market with all the episodes it would sell worse because retailers would have to carry a larger inventory which would gather dust and get shifted to the bargain bin. Its an annoyance but necessary.

I don't buy anime because it costs too goddamn much.

$9 for an episode of GitS? FUCK YOU NIPPON.

>>392621
>>If you flooded the market with all the episodes it would sell worse because retailers would have to carry a larger inventory which would gather dust and get shifted to the bargain bin.
Why do we care? The point is - they don't want to change their old ways of distribution and pricing. Today it's unexcusable and plain stupid. If I had an alternative to fansubs of an ongoing series right here and now I'd consider buying. I won't wait years to get it and they can stick their laws up their asses.

>>392564

I take that for granted, still the issue is another one. In contrast to sourcecode, or engines, the Anime Series (with the exception of OVAs of course) are actually airing on Japan television. If they would air here I would simply record them and watch them then. I normally don't watch a series twice. I just watch it once and then delete it.

And I'm not sure why I shouldn't be able to do the same as elevens do themselves. Well, to be frank, I don't even watch fansubs anymore. I dl raws, but that's another issue.

Why should I have to buy every fucking series I want to watch, when they air on television anyway? It's impractical to do so anyway, considering the huge ammounts of many you have to spend to even get one 26 Episode Series completely.

Doesn't stop me from downloading the House episodes from FOX and so on either. If I want a DVD, gimme either a good reason, or a reasonable price for a complete series in a box. (not 3 episodes per DVD for i dunno 25 bucks)

It's ridiculous and everyone should realize this. I got the complete Flying Circus Collection for 60 Bucks, which is 45 Episodes and 40 minutes per episode, not fucking 20. Now that is actually a reasonable price. Not this bullshit with anime here.

>>392684

I gotta correct myself. It was actually 50 bucks, so it's even better than i thought to remember. Also the many should be money, I'm sure you figured that out.

>>392682

So they should abandon a business model that works, price DVDs cheaply in bulk to an audience that won't buy it anyway, driving away retailers and ignoring the kiddie market which makes the bulk of their money, far later then the series premiers in Japan because negotiation, dubbing, translation and packaging takes time? Sorry, I think the shitting away money management style ended with the 90s.

>>392684

The point is that they DON'T air it here. When you watch something on TV the network makes money from commercials and the company that licensed it receives a cut, which pays for the licensing fee they paid the company in Japan, the translation work, the dubbing, the marketing, the administrative work, etc. Similarly, DVDs and other merchandise they sell generate revenue to pay for their expenses and turn a profit. If licensing companies didn't exist and the Japanese firms retained all rights to the series in America, there would still be someone on our asses about IP violations. If fact, if they don't defend their IP, they could lose the rights to it in the US. Now why should they voluntarily surrender their rights and a potential source of revenue?

I'm sorry but no one owes us anything and licensing companies have every right to exist and to defend the licenses they paid for. I appreciate the companies they take a lax approach and consider fansubs free promotion but that is their choice.

Look, go ahead and download fansubs and so will I. I'm not saying fansubs are evil or you shouldn't watch them. What I am saying is that anyone who claims a moral high-ground for choosing fansubs is full of crap, we do it because its free, we get it now, and we don't want the extra stuff that comes along with a licensed copy since we are streaming it to the tv from our file servers. I am also explaining that licensing companies are neither stupid or incompetent, we simply aren't their target audience and most times they don't care about us and our fansubs as long as we keep a tight rein on it.

>>390467
Actually, both are problematic. There's no effective difference between the two besides volume.

>>390527
Last I heard, Geneon wasn't going under.

>>393309

I thought Geneon died.

Stop? Okay. No decent anime to even waste the effort on anymore. You win Japan.

>>393350
My mistake, I hadn't heard anything about it since before the september announcement.

>>392906
>When you watch something on TV the network makes money from commercials

This is complete balls. Whether or not I personally watch a show on TV has no bearing whatsoever on whether the network profits or not. They make their money from the selling of the advertising timeslots to advertisers, and the ratings figures they present in order to justify their prices are based only on the people with ratings boxes currently installed.

I personally have never been asked to use one, and I doubt anyone else in this thread has. Thus none of us have any influence on the profit margins of TV networks.

>>392975
Anyone who willingly abides and defends stupid laws is full of shit. Lick media companies' asses as much as you want.

the internet is pretty much the free zone of the world with many rules that no one follows. hell if i am going to pay 30 bucks for 4 episodes of a shitty anime. i can get it for free and years before it becomes irrelevant. i wouldn't be able to stand watching death note knowing millions of American fangirls have caught on to it.

besides, years from now once we become the politician generation and some dick finds a way to regulate the internet (cant see it as possible when so many people have access to it) i want to be able to tell my grandchildren "i used to use the internet in the time or pron and lulz hunting outlaws on a site filled with peddlers of unsavory goods."
and they will say
"wow what site was it"
then ill slap them, call them faggots and yell "RULE 1 & 2 FAGGOT. 1 & 2!" as i rock madly in my rocking chair. im going to be the worst grandfather ever...call the kid faggot, make fun of him. you know, the good stuff.
but seriously, i cant stand how they do dubbing and i use anime to increase my listening skills with moonspeak so anything out of fansubs or raws are useless to me. almost as stupid as buying figures.

why should i wait a year for a new episode when i can get one next week? and with better quality and the original dialog. some things just dont get explained through translations with dubbing but fansubbers seem to do cultural explanations very well.

dub:
sighn on an important building left in moon speak
sub:
sign on building with moon speak, a translation above it and an explanation of the joke that would have otherwise been skipped.

Why four languages?

>>390310
I don't think they understand that people sub for the reason that almost every decent anime or game that hits Japanese shelves has some sort of sexual hint or something and so they never release them elsewhere. Also, they overprice their shit big time. Who wants to pay $50 or so for three parts of a 300 episode long fucking anime? Imagine buying every DVD of Detective Conan/Case Closed. Holy fucking shit. If they added about 6 episodes a disc i'd care slightly more, that and they released more animes, not just, you know, the stupid mainstream shit we see every two seconds. Also, they don't have to dub, because most of the time dubs suck dick. The only dub I liked was DBZs and that was because I grew up with it and never heard the japanese ones, so it's not like that matters.

tl;dr: Sell more animes/games outside of Japan and make them cheaper and then we'll talk.

>>392975
Agreed 100%

People who claim a moral highground are usually little kids who think they're out to stand up to 'the man'. Pathetic.

There is no moral high ground to be had. Anyone who says there is is just lying to themselves.
I'll watch fansubs because I don't like the idea of shelling out $100 for a shit series. If I really like a series (that isn't absurdly long,) then yes I'll go buy it. The problem is primarily DVD price. And people aren't going to buy more anime if they simply can't watch fansubs anymore, they are going to buy more anime if the price gets reduced to something more reasonable. Especially when you're talking about a series that can run more than 30 episodes. I am definitely going to buy Spice and Wolf, I am considering buying Gundam 00 season 1 if season 2 turns out to be as good or better.

I'd rather just donate money to the studios and be done with it.
What the fuck should I do with shitty DVDs in hueg boxes?
They're way too unpractical compared to my computer where I have the whole thing in one place and not on a dozen shitty discs.

>>390406
>>390467
>>390484
>>392505
>>392564
>>392621
>>392906
>>392975
I only buy anime if I saw the fansub before and think it is worth the money. And yes, I do own quite a few. Since I'm probably not the only one who thinks so, prohibiting fansubs would result in the exact opposite: People will buy less.

We'll stop the fan-subbing when you moonspeakers stop outsourcing your dub jobs to the lowest bidder.

And, you know, making us pay 30-40 dollars for a few episodes.

>>

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-126597/Gonzo-and-Crunchyroll.html#8029779

>>392364

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-126597/Gonzo-and-Crunchyroll.html#8029779

>>390449
We can fix that as soon as we can reality TV and make more shows geared to 16-27 year olds.