/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>Also does she know she has a twin in Hinamizawa?

Hinamizawa is fictional in the Umineko universe.

I just read a Erika = Kyrie theorie in Umineco.

>>3992538
Don't trust witches.
>>3992530
>The phones
It is pretty big considering it wasn't really touched upon in the meta-world.
>Servants telling baldfaced lies is another huge Ep. 5 clue. It's shown they are capable of furthering a conspiracy. This kind of reminds me of Ep. 4 when Shannon/Kannon are in the jail cell and have a change of heart.
We've known the are full of shit since Kinzo died.

>>3992563

Care to share?

>>3992563
>Erika = Kyrie

Could the phones be the "secret" or whatever that Ryukishi mentioned that none of the characters touched upon?

>I just read a Erika = Kyrie theorie in Umineco.
That seems out there. They go out of there way to say that Erika is specifically the a new 18th person.

>>3992582
I'm thinking that it's something to do with time, actually. But phones are another plausibility.

>>3992606
>time
You mean how it skipped a huge section from Erika accusing Natsuhi and Battler saying "It's useless, all useless" then skipping to 0:00?

I go with the theory that Erika was hired by Kyrie with her contacts in Kyoto.

I am confused about Battler.
Att he end of EP5(game) when Natsuhi begs for forgivness Battler says "It's useless..." and game ends.
Was he ready to counter attack or he really was that child?

Also would Battler look exactly the same as "the kid"?

I'm pretty damn certain Jessica is the caller. She's know her mom well enough to be able to guess that it's fall, not the mention that the caller could have just place 4 cars at 4 diffrent places. Also she and the caller have the same fucking talking style except that Jessica uses "watashi" and the caller uses "ore".

>>3992624
Knox theory.
Detective can't be the murderer.
Notice the icon change for umineko.
From ep5 onward we are playing from Erika POV. Battler is the new Beatrice.

>>3992625
>>3992619
This probably gonna be a focal point of the next EP or a later arc.

>>3992625
Battler probably isn't the "man from 19 years ago", as assuming said man even "exists".

>>3992638
The caller also switches to 'boku" at one point.

>Notice the icon change for umineko.
>From ep5 onward we are playing from Erika POV. Battler is the new Beatrice.
I love how I predicted that Rika was going to be the sudden new protaganist in the second half of Umineko, before Bern was introduced. It was more of a joke but yeah.

>>3992638
not exactly.

Stated in red that Shanon is the only one that Natushi told the season thingy to.
However Shanon can pretty much tell that to anyone.

More over I think the whole shit was a trick. The person can just hide 4 different cards in 4 different places and tell Natsuhi to pick up based on her answer. Very very common magic trick.

>Erika

Erika is Rikas and Keiichis child.

>>3992625
Well Battler isn't culprit for games 1-4,but i think game 5 is about him.

However you are right.It would indicate that Battler's appearance=The kid.
And that is a bit weird.

>>3992640
Well, not Erika POV, per sé, cause that'd make Battler the bad guy.

>>3992625
I think that what Battler did was his counterattack, that time was when the re-trial started and he defeated erika. Since the game is suspended and teaves like six-seven hours without anything, it's appropiate o think the game was resumed with Battler's theory

>>3992667
Battler is one of the bad guys.
Umineko is all just to make him admit his crimes.

>>3992664
Battler was stated not to be the culprit for this game in red rather early on.
However, that was conveniently ignored much like the "Kinzo is already dead" bit.

"This game is lacking love"
"Without love the truth can not be seen"
"This game is missing the truth"

>>3992661
Oh shit i never thought that there could be four diffrent cards.
Nice one.

>>3992683
Maybe.

Anyhow, I'm exited for Episode 6, for all you people who've read Ep 5 with Atlas, was it understandable?

>>3992623
Continuing from last thread.

>>3992624
Probably not. But these kyoto guys could surely be related to the crime and to ''natsuhi's child''.

-Kyrie asked them to dig all the dirt of krauss and natsuhi.
-They somehow found about the baby
-With that in mind Kyrie, being the mastermind, used her contacts and probably a servant to hide the cards in natsuhi's room.
-Kyrie hired someone to call natsuhi, taped it or whatever.
-Until the morning of the second day the connections with the outside world were working fine so she could prepare a tape that would talk about Erika to give natsuhi the impression that she was being watched.
-Natsuhi is pinned the culprit.

>>3992682

I'm confused. How can the red be ignored?

On EP6:
As the leader of the witch side, Battler will be forced to continue the serial murders. So he must carry out 13 murders using the game pieces. If he can create a crime that follows the rules of Beatrice's game board and is seen by Lambadelta and Bernkastel, they'll be able to confirm that he understands this world, and the game will be over.

Ryuukishi, jokingly, said that he might even end with EP6...but he also said that ending on either EP7 or EP9 would even be possible as well. In other words, "no comment"

What is Solvable:
It is possible to solve the "who dunnit", "why dunnit", and "how dunnit" for up to EP4 at least, but this is from Ryuukishi's perspective. Just because it would be possible for him doesn't mean that it will be possible for all the readers, coming from their own perspectives.

Some people have already solved about 98% of the epitaph. For the rest, you'd need to be on the actual island. However, if the people who have solved 98% went to Rokkenjima, they would be able to solve the rest in about an hour.

Several people have already guessed the true location of the gold.

In both EP6 and EP7, the full process of solving the epitaph's riddle will be revealed. You'll hear about it bit by bit from characters in the game.

In EP5, the game stopped shortly after Hideyoshi's corspe was discovered, but people who know the "answer" should be able to predict what happens next in the second twilight and beyond.

Gold Text:
If you know the "answer", you should be able to understand what gold text is, what conditions it can be used in, and whether it's stronger than red text or not.

If someone knows the answer of the game, they can use the gold even if they aren't the Game Master.

Erika does not know the truth, but Lambdadelta can probably still use the gold.

Other Stuff:
Beato managed to communicate everything she wanted to Battler at the end of EP4.

Episode 6 will probably focus more on 'story' than 'mystery'

What would have been "Land of the Golden Witch":
People also wonder whether content from "Land of the golden witch", which was removed from EP3, was included in EP5.

Ryuukishi: I definitely can't tell you that! It's true that the most vital part of "Land of the golden witch" is in there, but it's such a terrifying bit. Furthermore, it's something that neither Battler nor Erika nor Bernkastel has ever brought up in discussion. Maybe they didn't even realize that it was a riddle. Well, you'll probably find out soon. In EP6, a huge bit of red text info will appear regarding this point......according to the current plan.

How many players have noticed what this content is so far?

Ryuukishi: Zero. ...Well, I'd like to say that, but I can't. This content is extremely venomous. Very powerful.

Is this content deeply related to solving the crimes?

Ryuukishi: I think people who have found the "answer" probably won't have any problems. I wonder if they've realized it's a trick...... It's a very dirty trick.

To put it another way, is it possible to reach the truth of the crime if you haven't noticed this trick?

Ryuukishi: That's hard to say. If you don't see through the part from "Land of the golden witch", you definitely won't be able to reach several vital answers.
However, that content was never really necessary in the first place, so you can reach the truth of the crime with it or without it. Still, it's just so venomous that there's a chance you'll be totally confused. Depending on the situation, it's likely to cause a certain misunderstanding.

Does anyone else think that the baby is beatrice son? Somehow he survived, and Rudolf first wife (whose name i can't remember) adopted him to beat Kyrie.

>>3992700
It simply wasnt stated on the trial.
Also, nobody had any proof that could back it off.

>>3992683
Hold on, this is a bit of a leap, but couldn't "love" represent Meta-Battler as in a sense Meta-Battler was missing from the game for a rather large sequence. This could be why multiple "truths" exist for this game.

>In EP5, the game stopped shortly after Hideyoshi's corspe was discovered, but people who know the "answer" should be able to predict what happens next in the second twilight and beyond.

This better not be the same "large bomb"(volcanic gas) that he reused to wipe everyone.

>>3992640

I'm not saying she was hired to murder anyone. She said she came to Rokkenjima disguised as someone who drifted to the island, but there's nothing to support this theory.
Genji said he checked with the Coast Guard, but this theory itself is dubious, if we consider he may be working with a third party.
In this theory, said third party would be Kyrie's group, that would probably account for Kyrie, Rudolf, Eva, Hideyoshi and Rosa.
Also, according to this theory, explaining why she had such great manners and knowledge about murders wouldn't be hard at all, if we consider she could be a professional detective under disguise. It could also be used to explain why everyone always listened to her with open ears.

>>3992698
What about the fact Shannon is the only character who knows Natsuhi likes Fall? Maybe is a false hint, but still

>Also does she know she has a twin in Hinamizawa?

I wouldn't be surprised if Erika -is- the Rika of these worlds.

She's supposedly older than Rika would be at the time, but her physical appearance betrays her stated age.

>>3992711

What's this "Land of the Golden Witch" bit? And did he state where he put the trick?

>>3992731
See
>>3992638
>caller could have just place 4 cars at 4 different places

>>3992743
Taiwan theory from the previous thread.

BOMB.

>>3992731
Ofc thatb's a false hint, just pt four cards in her bedroom accordingly to the season she says. But maybe this is a troll becase everyone is able to arrive to this easy conclusion

>Also does she know she has a twin in Hinamizawa?

I wouldn't be surprised if Erika -is- the Rika of these worlds.

She's supposedly older than Rika would be at the time, but her physical appearance betrays her stated age.

Bern replaces Rika's memories with the information she needs, like Hanyuu did in Higurashi, and she automatically has a piece on the board of this game.

>>3992731
As already stated by me in the other thread and by >>3992661 here, because of how the card was hidden it's pretty likely that the 4 cards trick was used.

I mean, let's turn the chessboard over, if Shannon was the culprit or even related to the crime, she would gain nothing by telling Natsuhi information that only she would know. It would be pretty stupid.

I think piece Battler went psycho after discovering truth that Rudolf told him.
Notice that Rudolf wanted to rush up things after Battler found the gold.

However what is the truth...?

>>3992750
I still don't get how people ever suspected that it was Taiwan, much less how the characters in the game figured that out. Okay maybe it was like this: They searched trought he atlas for a map of any country with a fish named "seatwater fish" on it...

...

Man how are you ever supposed to figure this one out just from 鮎の川.

It's been declared in red before that Battler never kills anyone in any game.

>>3992788

Just like how Einstein discovered Relativity.
Some people are genius.

>>3992781
Maybe Rudolph knows his "son's" sin.
>>3992769
This pretty sound how are they certain this will rattle Natsuhi up?

>>3992796
Battler might not be reffering to the Battler we know.
AKA. the man on the gameboard with red hair and cream suit is not Battler Ushiromiya.

>>3992796
Only in the first 4, he's free to be the murderer in EP 5 on the count he ain't detective.

>>3992769
But what if we turn the chessboard around again. If Shannon really was the culprit and she told Natsuhi information only she would know Natuhi would think that it couldn't be Shannon because Shannon couldn't possibly that stupid.

>>3992817
I'm pretty sure there's red text early on stating otherwise.

>>3992821
Natsuhi holds Shannon in a very low regard by the way she's treated and known to be a little incompetent.

>>3992828
Enlighten us then, this is probably important.

>>3992810
The objective of this trick was to make Natsuhi feel cornered, as her son could touch her anytime or even read what was on her mind.

It was just a cheap psychological trick. The question could be anything from which is her favorite color to her favorite dish.

Probably ''her favorite season'' was choosen because it was a question of only four simple answers and also something she doesnt go on talking with everyone.

Let's talk about the phone man a little. It's possible he's a delusion. It's also possible it's not.

The voice described as a young man's voice. By young they mean sounding 19ish. We all know adult women play boys in anime all the time, but 19 seems a bit too old for that. So the suspects would include--

Kannon
Battler
George

Tape Recording
Someone pretending to be a young man.

Kannon seems to be the most likely. He's always in a bad mood. He seems to resent the family. He's got inside information from the other Servants. He's also got inside information from Jessica. That said he is supposed to love Jessica.

George is the second most likely. He's in direct competition with Jessica for headship. Kinzo perhaps sees Kraus' entire family as a failure for losing the original baby he secured and helped set up the plot years ago before his death. Eva's family got things started when they suspected Kinzo was dead. Since they were scheming with him it would make sense they would be the ones to know he was dead due to loss of contact. The obvious faults are it would have to be a tape recording as George dies, that said Geoge's death is a little cloudy with the whole bodies never moved after they died thing. The calls being a recording aren't too crazy either, the long pauses are very indicative of a playback mechanism being used. But why use George for that if they used a tape recorder? They could use any males voice.

Battler I would say is the least likely. It's established he isn't the culprit. He does try to take the blame for it though, but only after he hears about it from Natsuhi.

It being a recording of someone not on the Island is also possible. The long pauses as I said could be indicative of someone finding the right message to play. The long pauses being just for suspense seem odd. They must be a clue.

>Shannon couldn't possibly that stupid.

That's a big assumption there

>>3992821
>because Shannon couldn't possibly that stupid

No, she is.

>>3992817
but even then it was said in red that he isn't but Erika, as a human can't prove that it wasn't him

>>3992788

The characters in the game: They took into account Kinzo's age, found out/knew/heard stories that he could've lived at Taiwan because it was a colony, did a rapid atlas search and leaped to off the wall conclusions.

IRL: Same, but a leap of faith and a bit of insanity is involved for pin pointing Taiwan.

>>3992538

No, it's not.

Krauss mentioned the Sonozaki

>>3992841
It could be a woman too, it's said that the voice isnt the manliest thing in the world...

There's one more thing. The call was made at 24:00, only people who werent neither under Erika supervision nor in the dining room could have make that call.

Even if it was a tape recording.
So it eliminates some people.

>>3992856

Well yeah, it's a bit frustarting that I never figured it out but it's probably best to just accept it. Also Rosa did say that his "beloved hometown" was very far away.

Also does anyone have any theories for the nock and letter problem?

But what if we turn it over again? She cant be the culprit because she wouln't tell natsuhi something that could make her think that she is the culprit because she told her something that only her could know to prettend she wasn't the culprit.

>>3992877
For the knock and letter, some were saying that they never actually happened.

>>3992765
>She's supposedly older than Rika would be at the time, but her physical appearance betrays her stated age.
Isn't Rika 13ish in 1983 and Erika 16ish in 1986? That seems right. Or was Rika like 9sh? I can never tell with anime characters.

>>3992877

From other threads: The knock wasn't stated to actually happen in Red. Ergo, everybody is fucking lying and corroborating a story. Letter might not exist.

>>3992877
I haven't a clue, was it stated that shanon or kannon didn't do it?
>>3992882
That's pretty convoluted.

>>3992568
Didn't Battler refer to Higurashi as a novel?

I guess that doesn't mean its a completely fictional novel though.

>>3992700
That red was never stated by anyone in EP5. Both witches refuse to state it. Battler also can't make anyone state it since there is not enough evidence.

>>3992897
But then GOLD came in...

>>3992893

So the 4 seasons thing and the calls to Natsuhi never happened as well. Great all of episode 5 is just a whole bunch of "it never happened".

>>3992896

Okonogi exists in Umineko, so it has already been shown that Higurashi's characters aren't necessarily fictional in Umineko's worlds, even if none of the Higurashi's arcs actually took place in any of the worlds directly shown in Umineko.

>>3992909
He will just keep bullshitting us with a random of 'correct facts' hidden till he spoonfeeds us the answer.
Do not try with reasoning shit, just enjoy the interactions.

Natsuhi used red text.
Can she use red text?

>>3992909
Well, who heard the knocks?
That should be the first thing to establish.

Providing the knock never happened, someone must have stolen the ring given to Battler. Come to think of it, the ring's whereabouts are unspecified at the beginning of every game

>>3992915
Sounds like you don't have love, so of course you can't see it.

>>3992870
It's Sonezaki, actually.

Written differently from Sonozaki.

>>3992915
Well, i read many interesting theories, and if one of them is truth, i will laugh at you lazy fags when the truth is out.

The people in the room "heard" the knocks.
As for who was where when it happened was stated in red, right?
If everyone has a location in red at that point in makes things a bit difficult.

>>3992915
I think the point is not to.

>>3992925
And after Kinzo's death it was never specified what Kruas or Natsuhi did with it.

>>3992933
THAT'S WHY A WITCH DID IT

>>3992933
Regarding this, has a database of all the red for this episode been compiled yet?

Okay either:
1)Kyrie is the culprit because she is anal pained over the whole Asumu thing.
2)Rudolf,Eva,Rosa kill each other out of greed.
3)Bomb/Fire or other really,really stupid big scale shit.

>>3992932
One theory will be mostly correct.
Just like if you start from the same point in the ocean and everyone follows a different route, one will reach the correct destination somehow.

The knocks were the sounds from the bomb clock signing they have 24h to disarm it.
The bomb is just below that room.

>>3992933
it was me

>>3992950
Lambda's red denies that.

>>3992946

Personally leaning towards a Kyrie-Rosa-Rudolf alliance myself.

>>3992946
There is too much foreshadowing for Kyrie(being the most intelligent,connections,her passion and envy,lost child).

# Before the family meeting, Erika, George, Jessica, Maria, Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa exited the mansion and moved to the guesthouse.
# May I offer to say, out of the remaining people, only Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji were in the hallway of the second floor, and everyone else was in the dining room.
# Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji did not even touch the letter!
# Out of everyone in the dining room- no, I'll put it in simpler terms. Not a single person in the mansion at the moment of 24 o'clock! No one placed that letter in the hallway.
# Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji did not knock!

All of these stated in red. Now that would only leave it that someone returned to the mansion from the guesthouse.

Hmm

>>3992965

Yes.

She's perfect.

The Taiwan theory just sound too good to be fake.

>>3992969
HMM

>>3992946
If i were Ryu i would go for
IT WAS ALL A DREAM HAHAHA
end.

I would be rembered as the greatest troll in the history of VNs or maybe whole Japan.

Is it possible someone inside the room was responsible for the knocks? I don't think any red said it wasn't.

>>3992966
Gohda was in the servants thingamajig sealed, Kumasawa was asleep, Nanjou was with Erika or was she playing cards at that point?

>>3992965

But don't the Japanese ignore her? She ranks low in suspicious polls last I heard. So maybe Ryukishi thinks his audience won't get it yet? So it's ok?

Kyrie already knows how to solve the riddle.
She is the smartest and said in the first episode that she is the type to work on a problem till she solve it.
In episode 3 she purposedly gave a hint to Eva.

She is doing it to get revenge for her supposed dead child.

>>3993001
It's possible but how could they pull it off?
The tapes Rudolf had, did he play anything or have access to and tape player?

>>3992966
Kannon and Shannon entered the Dining room at 23:00, right?
Were the people in the other group stated to have actually all went to the guest house together?
If this isn't confirmed, perhaps one of them came back and placed it. As for the "knock" this is a bit iffy, but perhaps one of them said they had heard it, opened the door, and behold, there's the letter.

Beato is Kyrie.

Hot STEPMOM SEXING.

The knocks are on another door. Erika broke her leg after falling a ladder and needs help.
They mistaked the direction.

>>3993006
It's entirely possibly for Nanjou to have done it as Erika herself said that she was playing cards with the others until midnight.

Doesn't everyone accuse Natsuhi of being the culprit in ep 1 as well?

OH SHIT I JUST REMBERED
There was a scene where they were talking about Kinzo's music tapes in the dinner room,and how precious they were.
They could have prepared knocking one mixed alongside others.

Well if someone is standing by the door they can knock on it from inside the room if no one is paying attention. One of the servants could be in the direction of the door and knock on the serving tray. Someone could knock on the table if they are sitting more near the door to emulate the door being knocked on.

Sound isn't as true as we think it is directionally. The dorm room I lived in it was has to tell if someone was knocking on my door or my neighbors door for example.

>>3992966
>No one placed that letter in the hallway.

Well there you have it, the letter doesn't exist.

>>3993032
No red truth says that he couldn't have placed the letter there before 24:00 I trust.

>>3992988
And nobody would read your stories anymore.
i don't think R07 wants that.

>>3993046
>>3993043
Lambda states in red more or less that it was the actual sound of a human hand hitting the door, not a recording or what have you.

>>3993046
>>3993022
>>3993043

The knock was repeated twice, I know since I just read that scene less than an hour ago. Also didn't Lambda state in red that the knock wasn't a recording?

#
# This doesn't mean it's just limited to no knocking on the door, okay? It means, if you guessed it was a pillar that transmitted sound or the play button for a recorded cassette tape, they never generated that sound of knocking! And of course, not directly or indirectly, intentionally or accidentally, or even unknowingly!
#
# It means they didn't misidentify the sound of knocking, in short. It means they didn't mistake another sound that closely resembled the sound of knocking for the sound of knocking. Stuff like 'the pillar made a knocking-like sound when it was knocked on' is out. Even if the sound of knocking was recorded in a cassette tape, that would also be "the sound of a tape recorded with the sound of knocking", thus not the sound of knocking. So that's out, too!

>>3993025

Wrong, Battler is Kyrie's son. It would turn out to be real incest.

>>3993047
The red is referring to the fact that of all the people in the mansion at 0:00, not one of them could have placed it. This doesn't mean someone not in the mansion then could have placed it there.

>>3993043
I had been thinking that during the game and then Lambda cockblocked me.

>>3993055
His 'BRAIN PARASITES' and 'There is an actual Ghost God too!' do not make mucho sense as explanations.
People still read his shit.

>>3992966
># Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji did not even touch the letter!

Not like they need to touch it to deliver it. Would be pretty silly though, I guess, unless they delivered it without knowing it was there.

>>3993057

Doesn't she go as far as to say somebody actually made contact with the door and knocked normally?

>>3993065

We need all of the EP5 red summed up.

The knock is related to the bomb.

>>3992969
>>3992985
i dont get it

>>3993065
Shit, this is the "Who killed Nanjou when Jessica was blind" all over again.

>>3993079
#
# In short, it means, in reality, everyone correctly discerned the sound of knocking on that door and absolutely couldn't have misheard it. It means it's absolutely impossible for them to have mistaken any sound except directly knocking on that door for the knocking!!
# The knocking was from a person knocking on the door by hand, okay?
# And none of them misidentified the sound of knocking. Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji had nothing to do with the knock. Besides them, no one else existed within the mansion. And I point out that the knocking was from the act of knocking on the door by hand while standing directly in front of the door.

>>3993065
>3993022 here
I meant that someone did something like pretending to have heard a knock or some such then went to open the door.
Unless Lambda says they all heard the knock.

>>3993084
google for "umineko red text"

Also, nobody denied >>3993029 yet.
But that Ronove lacking love theory sounds right.

I don't understand why people say kanon=shanon has been disproved. I mean, i dont belive that theory, but since battler has a subjective point of view, he could be lying about seeing them both.

As for the whole "it was the sound of a hand hitting a door", who says the hand had to be connected to a person's arm?

somebody threw a hand (probably maria's) in from outside a window and it hit the door

>>3993111
What theory about Ronove?

19 years ago man is Kyrie's son

Kinzo kidnapped it, and paid the doctors to state the baby is dead (lol miscarriage)

Natsuhi etc

Kyrie contacts with his son and plans the revenge

Umineko happens

>>3993116
>>3993117
LOLWUT mind.
That is just silly.

>>3993117
I just burst out laughing after reading this. Good show.

> somebody threw a hand (probably maria's) in from outside a window and it hit the door
We're getting pretty desperate aren't we?

>>3993126
THEN WHO WAS BATTLER?

Since I'm already working on it anyway:

Before the family conference, Erika, George, Jessica, Maria, Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa left the mansion and moved to the guesthouse.

Of those who remain, only Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji were in the second floor corridor, while all other were in the dining hall.

Krauss, Natsuhi and Genji did not even touch that letter!

Not a single person in the dining hall...no, there's a simpler way to say it. Among all those inside the mansion at 24:00, not a single person placed that letter in the corridor.

Neither Krauss nor Natsuhi nor Genji knocked!

This isn't the limited meaning of them knocking on the door, okay? It means they didn't use a pillar to transmit the sound or push the play button on a cassette tape they'd recorded or create that knock sound by any means! Of course, this applies to direct, indirect, intentional, coincidental, and unintentional means!

at 24:00, except for Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji in the second floor corridor and all of the people in the dining hall, no humans existed inside the mansion

Let it be known that in addition to Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji, none of those in the dining hall made the knock. In this sense, 'knock' includes all direct, indirect, intentional, unintentional, and coincidental events that could create a knocking sound.

In short, this means it was impossible for any character within the mansion to be the source of a knocking SOUND. ......And 'any character' refers even to unobserved people that no one has noticed.

no one in the mansion placed the letter in the hallway

>>3993113
Erika saw them both together.
Erika is the detective.

Nuff said

>>3993125
All in the dining room actually "heard" the knocks and created the letter story. All were culprits.

Ronove said the game is lacking love.

>>3993150
A shitty one.

>>3993147
No one in the mansion placed the letter in the hallway. This includes doing so by all concepts, such as directly, indirectly, intentionally, coincidentally, and unintentionally.

At 24:00, only Erika, George, Jessica, Maria, Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa existed outside the mansion

The letter never existed on the ceiling of the hallway.

Know that the letter never touched the serving cart.

It was impossible for anyone outside the mansion to influence anything inside the mansion around the time of the family conference.

None of the characters misidentified a knocking sound.

Misidentifying a knocking sound means this: they would not mistake a sound very similar to a knocking sound for a real knocking sound. Hitting a pillar to make something similar to a knocking sound is no good. When you record a knocking sound on a cassette tape and play it back, it becomes 'the sound of the tape with a knocking sound on it', and not a knocking sound. So that's no good either!

In other words, all of them would correctly distinguish a knocking sound of something truly hitting the door, and they definitely wouldn't mishear it. It's totally impossible that any sounds except hitting that door directly would be misinterpreted as a knock!!

'To knock' means someone hitting a door with their hand

And none of them misinterpreted a knocking sound. Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji were not involved with the knock. No one else existed inside the mansion. And that knock refers to the action of standing directly in front of a door and hitting it with a hand.

>>3993126
But wait...
Kyrie has misscarriage the same day as Asumu has given birth.

It is said that Battler was really Kyrie's son and Asumu was the one with a dead baby.
Child swap.

>>3993117
The knock was repeated twice.

The red truth kind of contradicts itself by saying that nobody existed in the mansion yet someone was standing in front of the door and knocking on it. Also it was a diffrent door sounds kind of wrong, is it really possibly to knock on a door outside of the mansion and have them mistake the knock.

Maybe it was Kinzo who did it, who is belived to be dead by everyone and thus doesn't "exist".

This knocking shit is impossible.

The only possible explanation is it was someone knocking on the other side of the door from inside the room. That's just silly.

>>3993098
># The knocking was from a person knocking on the door by hand, okay?
Following the not "fake hand" train of thought, this could perhaps be read along with the other red, that the person whose hand knocked on the door was not in the mansion at 24:00. Where they obtained said hand(s), well, there is a corpse lying around isn't there?

... I'll stop now.

>>3993150
Oh right, since one of them dies either on the first or second twilight, im unused to have them together when they all barricade themself in a room.

>>3993147
Genji knocked the door using kinzo's body.
SOLVED

>>3993161
>>3993147
Based on this that letter DOES NOT EXIST.
It is just impossible to plant it.

>>3993185
Unless the letter was placed before the conference by someone who left the island.

I AM THE NEW GAME MASTER!!
I WILL AVENGE YOU BEATO!

>>3993185
If the letter didn't exist, the next problem would be where the ring came from.

Someone used a tape recorder, problem solved.
Easy.

Kinzo knocked.
Old man can knock even after dead. He's that awesome.

>>3993185
The letter could exist, but perhaps not the knock. Afterall, there is a one hour period between when Shannon and Kannon entered the dining room and when the letter was found.
As Nanjo is the only one not sealed, unless I'm missing something, he could have ran back to the mansion placed it, and ran back to the guest house.

>>3993211
Except for the fact it's been said in red it wasn't a tape recorder.

>>3993180
The body of Maria which was glued to the body of Rosa was thrown TWICE to make knocking.
SOLVED

My Nanjou theory seems to get pretty much ruled out.

>>3993211
You didn't pay attention at all, did you?

>And that knock refers to the action of standing directly in front of a door and hitting it with a hand.
In the back of a door and hitting it with a hand.

>>3993207
One of them stole it already. There are many possibilities for how it could be done.

>>3993207
Where is the ring as of 1the conference?
That hasn't been explained or hinted at.

The Nanjo ep3 getting killed shit and this knock shit both hurt my brain. They've eliminated everyone in red from doing either but stated it had to be a human.

>>3993207
Someone had the ring from the beginning.
And that is the culprit accomplice.

>>3993236
Ep 3. Nanjo is quite simple, as the red confirming deaths aren't until 0:00 it means someone who was attacked/appeared dead earlier wasn't actually dead.

>>3993234
3)The disappearance of Krauss
-Joined the family discussion at the mansion room
-Since all of them are in it, they kidnapped him and threaten Natsuhi to make her be the culprit

Ring is brought by one of the servant etc, no letter existed
Knock is done by the family at the mansion room

>>3993236
It is just a mislead.
I analyzed this KNOCK thing and by RED we were given i can assume there was no knock,everything is made up.

>>3993236
Nanjou getting killed has been solved since episode 4. Somebody killed him and died between the point where he killed Nanjo and where he was declared dead by Eva-Beatrice.

>>3993214
I wouldn't put it past him.

>>3993251
Was there anything to hint at him having the ring on him?
There was no mention of it until the letter came.

>>3993221
Erika was not there with them, anything could be happened.
I'm still with the "no love" theory. The adults were planning "to revive Beatrice" and ordered the servants to bullshit about the knocks and the letter.

>>3993238
The ring is a good clue. It implicates the people who had access to Kinzo's body and thus the ring or at least knew of it.

Primary:
Natsuhi
Krause

Secondary:
Genji
Shanon
Kanon
Nanjo
Kumasawa

Keep in mind ep5 goes out of its way to tell us how good at being a faker Kumasawa. OVER AND OVER it tells us she is one to look out for. Beato tells Natsuhi that, the servants all talk about how good at acting she is as well.

Did erika ever saw the ring?

>>3993275
I believe so, however I'm not certain.

Well, the everyone is the culprit theory might work, but let's have a look at the letter once again.

>>3993273
To further this, after Kraus sees the ring HE DIES. He probably had immediate suspicions to how Battler got it.

>>3993289

>>3993290
Rather Kraue disappears. It never states he dies explicitly does it?

>>3993294

Was the "knock" confirmed in red to be at 24:00?

>>3993297
When Natsuhi is on trial in the meta-world it does.

>>3993304

From other thread:
Beatrice dying from falling = Natsuhi's kid dying

The red used as "Beatrice died on that day" meant that she decided to become new person.
Also it was precisely 19 years ago.
Rosa was just hinting things.

>>3993307
It confirms he dies sometime after the phonecall. Not much else.

>>3993318
So was Beatrice the Servant or the Kid?

>>3993330
The servant was middle aged and had a husband.

>>3993330
Both.

>>3993289
I don't know if it was said in red or what but this is my letter theory.

The letter was there before Shanon and Kanon enter the room?
Like Eva's receipt trick, maybe it was stuck in a spot of the door (Up or down part) and the servants didn't saw it.
The culprit sees the letter has fell and placed where it must be.Knock knock

Also Hanyuu

For those who missed the 98% riddle solving, keep this link: http://privatepaste.com/3c08fce4af

>>3993330
Tricky question.
And don't know.

>>3993319
IIRC I read it in japanese and i understood he got killed JUST AFTER the call.

>>3993338
That doesn't rule the servant out.

Well, regarding the letter and knock, it seems that either neither exist, only the letter exist, or that both exist with the knock made by some roundabout way such as using Kinzo's hand or something.

>>3993360
that was what Bern said while she was tormenting Natsuhi:

# Ushiromiya Krauss isn't the culprit. And he has long been killed. Right after you were made to hear his voice by phone, you know?

>>3993345
If this B0MB shit will be true....i swear.

>>3993385
You'll write Ryukishi a strongly worded letter?
As will I anon, as will I.

What ever happened to the "Kinzo is alive" theory?

It might be that Kinzo just pretended to die so even though Natsuhi and Krauss try to hide his 'death' he's still at the hidden Mansion enjoying himself. And the red truth was true because everyone genuinely thought he was death and no one observed him stil being alive.

I know, I hope this is just me bullshitting as well.

I don't think the bomb is thing is truth.
But the Taiwan part and the door being to the Kuwadorian sounds pretty real.

>>3993405
what the fuck, man. You missed THE ONLY FUCKING GOLDEN TEXT of the game?

>>3993082
>Right now, it is exactly the same time that the large clock in the hall announces 24:00.
Weird grammar aside, that's an awfully roundabout way of putting it. If the large clock isn't on time, there's room for anyone who's supposed to be outside the mansion to place the letter and leave.

Big bomb theory is bullshit. There's no way it's right. 07 would be a giant prick to omit that the mansion is a pile of rubble.

>>3993421
The golden text said "This corpse is Kinzo's corpse". Nothing more, nothing less. He might still have died sometime during the game.

The knocking issue is very simple.

When they found Genji's 'corpse', he didn't have his keys on him, yes? Why do we have to assume they were stolen? Since we know thanks to the red that the 5 'victims' of the first twilight were not actually dead at that time, this might have all been a part of a plan being carried out. Genji gave Nanjo his keys hours before. After Erika went upstairs to play cards with the cousins, Nanjo beat feet to the mansion, let himself in, set the letter, knocked, and then boogied back out, locking the front door along the way.

>>3993405
If you look at in a certain way using your logic, and assuming gold can only be used for "absolute truth", then nothing "technically" counters it.
As the gold only said "I guarantee this corpse is Kinzo's.
Fuck, I hope this just you bullshitting.

>>3993429
I think the theory says that a landslide is being caused by cunningly placed explosives. That would add up with what Ange saw in episode 04 and what Rosa and Maria were fleeing from at the end of episode 02.

>>3993425
Crap, that might actually be.

>>3993433

The red text says nobody outside the mansion can do anything once the meeting starts. Also that there was no other humans beyond those in the hallway and the dining room.

>>3993431
Kinzo is already dead at the starting time for all games!

ALL GAMES

>>3993429
You will see next episode.
Also anime make it pretty clear that something big happened on the island, like a mud flow or something.
And R07 did supervise the anime.

>>3993405
Kinzo is dead since the start in all games.
It's red. It's the truth.
You cant lie in red.

The detective cant use red as argument without giving proof because of knox, but RED is still RED.

>>3993433
The issue is the time, assuming all the clocks are correct and such and that Lambda isn't using some bizzaro different time zone, unless Nanjo can move faster than light or used something round about like someone else's hand to make a loop hole in the red, he can't have knocked as he couldn't have been in the mansion when the knock occured at 24:00.

>>3993431
If Kinzo existed, he was fucking Natsuhi during the murders.

The bomb theory is bullshit.

In EP4, when Ange searches hints and goes to the island, nobody told her there's a huge crater (Witch Hunter, Boat Captain), there's no parts of the mansion scattered all arround the island, and i think Eva should have said I'M NOT THE CULPRIT CUZ THERE WAS A FUCKING BOMB IN THE MANSION.

The Bomb theory if is true makes all the Ange part worthless.

>>3993471
I wouldn't put it past him.

>>3993454
>>3993463
Unless it's a word play on "dead" e.g. "He's dead to me", in which case I'll write several very strongly worded letters to Ryukishi.

HAHA SO IT WAS BIG BOMB ALL ALONG!!
Oh Ryu you card ,oh you.

>>3993483
Nah, he's dead Jim.
One of the points of EP 5 was to stop with Kinzo bullshitting.

He's dead. Period.

>>3993477
If the bomb existed, everyone were dead when it exploded.

>Nanjo can move faster than light
I'm ok with this.jpg

Ryu =/= Kubo

So EP2 ending would be Battler shred to pieces by expolsion not the Goatman and Rosa+Maria escaping from radius.
Oh god it makes sense...

>>3993463

The point is that she didn't lie. He was "dead" to everyone on the island since they had all seen him die, but actually he wasn't dead he had just pretended to die and then hidden himself away at Kuwadorian. This theory was going around a lot before episdoe 5 came out, personally I don't believe it but I can't totally brush it off. There were so many hints in ep5 that Kinzo is actually alive.

>>3993477
The 1997 scenes speak of an "unfortunate accident", not mass murder. Also
>nobody told her there's a huge crater
pic related

>>3993477
The 1997 scenes speak of an "unfortunate accident", not mass murder. Also
>nobody told her there's a huge crater
pic related

>>3993503
Ryu is also a troll but a sophisticated one.
Kubo is just...Kubo.

The BIG BOMB doesn't neccesairly have to blow the whole mansion up. it could just have some effect, as in triggering a landslide. Wich is also the reason why Ange couldn't find the mansion in EP4.

>>3993510
Oh god, it's like the window.
Fuck.

>>3993433
Nanjo was with Erika that time, no?
But Kumasawa could have done that.

>>3993509
Fuck,it does.

>>3993530
Erika was with the cousins playing cards. Nanjo was off somewhere being a bastard.
Kumasawa was sealed I believe.

>>3993477
Maybe I should have posted the second half of that theory.
Well I didn't since it doesn't have much to do with the riddle.

Anyways another theory that supplement the Taiwan one is that it wasn't really a "bomb" per se but rather a set of dynamites.
Basically it was to create a gigantic landslide.
A man made disaster basically.
That would explain why the police would conclude in an unfortunate accident.

>>3993510
>Kinzo is actually alive.
Ep5 Piece Battler isn't detective so his interpretation of meeting Kinzo is dubious. It's invented.

>>3993510
This is too much bullshit.
Also it would go against the 17 person rule (18 in EP 5)....seriously. Even the wording in ''Kinzo is dead'' isnt open to interpretations.

Bomb = mysterious device X.

Fuck you guys.

>>3993510
ಠ_ಠ Nigga.

What about the red text regarding only 17 people on the island, huh?

>>3993553
A bomb of some sort doesn't require any kind of scientific explanation, and there's been a fair amount of foreshadowing, so you should be satisfied.

>>3993550
>>3993554
Despite this being ridiculous, it fits with how ridiculous the rest of this "theory" is, as Kinzo is "dead", he doesn't count as a "person" or some such is the logic behind it I imagine.

>>3993553
Not really. A bomb is a bomb, it's a simple thing used in a lot of mysteries that follow Knox's rules.

So Beatrice is a...Bomb?
Battler armed it by accident 6 years ago and he has forgotten about it?

>>3993515
Unfortunate Accident=/=Hueg Bomb Witch made by Yamainu.

Also Knox

>>3993543
It would also allow for somebody to prevent it after they found out, right? So it even works with Beatrice wanting Battler to find out the truth.

Ha ha ha.

Who said the bomb had to be in the mansion.

Think of Rosa Musou.
At 24:00 on October 5th, 1986. Something happened on Rokkenjima, that killed all of the survivors.

Rosa realized Event X was happening and ran to the beach with Maria.

If they made it to the beach it's very likely that Maria and Rosa would have survived. So Event X causes the destruction of the mansion, the guest house, the chapel and the pathway to the mansion and possibly the tunnel to Kuwadorian.

But it doesn't destroy Kuwadorian, which is why Eva survived.

>>3993566
Him arming it doesn't make much sense as it was said had Battler not come to this conference, the murders would not have happened.

>>3993554

Kinzo isn't a person, he's a Goldsmith. No seriously, I don't know, but I've been pondering this problem for a while now. I just hope he fucking stays dead. I mean, how are we gonna explain the Kinzo appearence in episode 4?

>>3993562
Mysterious device X is any kind of booby trap/device. It doesn't have to be scientifically implausible. Battler has came up with plenty of devices which fit under this that aren't completely implausible. It just has to be bullshit, like an island leveling bomb no one seems to know about.

>>3993566

It's likely that the bomb is named BEATRICE.

I wouldn't put it past grandfather.

So it's appropriate to say, Beato is ALSO a Bomb, instead of just Beato is a bomb.

>>3993582

It's Kinzo's last trap.

>>3993465
>>3993452

Well... then...

Upon further examination, there really isn't anything left to debate. Nanjo placed the letter, since his alibi doesn't start until 24:00. The red denies his presence in the mansion at 24:00 sharp, but he could still have been in and out, as long as he made it out the door by midnight. He placed it there at some point earlier, then knocked... on the front door. Really hard.

I may be mistaken in this, but I am under the impression that the parlor is very close to the front door. That's the reason the knock sounded so odd to everyone.

Read the red again. It is impossible for ANYONE inside the mansion, known or otherwise, to have generated the knock. And it was a human being that made it, physically knocking on a door by hand. Therefore, the knock cannot have come from within the mansion.

>>3993563
From red text wiki:

Kinzo's life or death status is the same at the start of each of the 4 games.
The setup was not different for the fourth game alone...!
Kinzo is already dead at the starting time for all games!
Before now, I have proclaimed that no more than 18 humans exist on this island.
I will lower that by one for Kinzo!!
No more than 17 humans exist on this island!!
That excludes any 18th person.
In short, this 18th person X does not exist!!
This applies to all games!!!

EP5:
Kinzo is already dead, right?
Grandpa is dead at this point in time.
………At the start of all games, Ushiromiya Kinzo is already dead！
Kinzo is dead.
Since 24:00 PM until the morning, Kinzo was in the same room all the time.


Also gold.

Seriously, there is NO loophole.

There's not LOLMAGIC enough in those theories.

Ok, Rokkenjima is a cursed island.
Battler's sin is that he broke Oyashiro's shrine, angering the evil spirits and causing a huge landslide later, at 1986.
Next episode we'll be introduced to a ghost moe goddess which will guide Battler to the broken shrine and he'll find a bomb there. Eva is the culprit because Eva is a bitch.

>>3993477
>In EP4, when Ange searches hints and goes to the island, nobody told her there's a huge crater (Witch Hunter, Boat Captain)
The map that anime Ange had did hint at a crater, actually. I know the anime isn't realiable, but I don't think they'd be making up stuff like that.

>there's no parts of the mansion scattered all arround the island

There's no mansion shown at all in Ange's story. I don't see why Ange would go to Rokkenjima and then not even get to the most important place there, unless it didn't exist anymore.

Sure, she could have been killed before reaching that place, but, from a narrative point of view, there's no reason she wouldn't reach it, unless they did have something to hide (its non existence).

>and i think Eva should have said I'M NOT THE CULPRIT CUZ THERE WAS A FUCKING BOMB IN THE MANSION.

Oh, so you set up the bomb, Eva? Good job, culprit!

The bomb theory is the exact kind of thing 07 tried to do away with in Ep 5. There is nothing in all of Umineko which gives you a clue that it is a bomb. Not one thing. They never talk about how the boatman was shipping certain materials which if researched would point to a bomb. They never talk about anyone having any experience with explosives. It's never talked about how bombs have been used in past murders. There just isn't a clue that points to it. A missile strike from an American Airship Carrier is just as likely.

The fact everyone is dead in a certain time period just means something happens. It doesn't indicate a bomb.

>>3993582

It's likely to be just a set of dynamite triggered to induce a landslide. Police saw it as an unfortunate accident. No island leveling necessary.

>>3993582
Yeah, once again there was a fair amount of foreshadowing so it works there.
You can't deny it using Knox.

>>3993607

I think it's more likely that someone manipulated the clock inside of the parlor. The wording in >>3993082 just seems to odd. That gives Nanjou enough time to vanish after the clock and before it actually becomes midnight.

>>3993580
>I mean, how are we gonna explain the Kinzo appearence in episode 4?

The truth about Kinzo death's comes to the light. However, everyone decides to agree that he was alive and come into some sort of accord between the siblings.

Well, what happens after that is beyond me...

>>3993612
I don' think anyone here actually believes this is true.
>>3993607
There isn't any red saying the knock had to be on the dining room door, right?

>>3993627
see
>>3993623

Give me a single piece of evidence that it's a bomb that wouldn't work for any thing else.

>>3993623
Kinzo used to work in the mining business.
He would know how to use dynamite and how to make landslide happen.
He probably placed them himself.

>>3993577
>Battler not come to this conference, the murders would not have happened.

When was that?

>>3993569
Protip: It might not have been an accident at all. That's just how it was interpreted later.

>>3993582
>Mysterious device X is any kind of booby trap/device. It doesn't have to be scientifically implausible.
What, no. Knox's 4th exists so that there won't be a lengthy scientific explanation afterwards, not that any and all kinds of traps are forbidden. That's just stupid.

Everyone knows by now that something happens suddenly, and the only survivor yet is Eva who was nowhere near the mansion. Clues are presented, Knox is satisfied.

Besides, after reading EP5, I don't think the Knox rules should be too rigid anyway. They're just there to cut down the bullshit, not to restrict the mystery.

Oh wow, already on auto-sage.

>Knox's 4th: It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be used.

There's no LHC bomb who can suck the entire mansion and don't leave traces of it.

>>3993639
No. It still doesn't change the fact that Genji, Krauss, Natsuhi, and all the people in the dining room did not make a knocking sound period, and nobody outside the mansion could influence the events inside.

>>3993647
Ep 4.

>>3993636
Kumasawa and Gohda are in cahoots with the culprit. Krauss is being held at gunpoint and is forced to tell that "kinzo" is posing a challenge to the cousins in order to find a successor.

>>3993573
Event X = "Unfortunate Accident"

Remember Episode 1 end credits we can't guarantee that things happened, but if we can...
Episode 1: Beatrice/Culprit/accomplice, Maria, Jessica, George, Battler and Natsuhi's corpse were all in the entrance hall.
Event X is guaranteed to be something that is unpreventable in Bern's letter.
Yet the bodies of the children weren't found.
Excluding Maria's jaw.
Natsuhi's corpse was in the same room so what happened?
How did 5 people vanish?
They tried to escape to Kuwadorian, and died in the tunnel.

>>3993647
Episode 4 when Beato confronted Battler because of his sin.

>>3993656

Considering Tranquilizers.

Is that considered an unknown drug? I mean, that's my bet on the EP4 pitfall thing. Wouldn't strong enough tranquilizers induce the Hypnic jerk, or a falling down sensation?

>>3993658
This points to either the clock being off or something stupidly round-about then.
I truly hope it's the former and not "Nanjo using Kinzo's hand...".

I personally think that Kinzo left a set of video that give different instructions.

>>3993693
Nanjo using kinzo's hand is awesome. Shut up.

new thread >>3993691

>>3993623
>It's never talked about how bombs have been used in past murders.

OH REALLY