/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Would you be?

99% sure it's going to be the truth.
I predict lots of butthurt faggots, can't wait.

If Shkanon is true, I'd already be raging at the fact that Shannon killed her ninja side to be a domestic meido.

If Shkanontrice is true, you know what, it's better to hope it's not.

Would you prefer it if it was just Kanon alone? Or Kanontrice?

I don't mind Shkannon. I like the idea that Jessica and George are in love with the same crossdresser.

But Shkannontrice? That's just...man, someone send R07 a boatload of antidepressants, please. BT's death is hitting him hard.

I'd like for Kanon to be the culprit with Jessica as his accomplice, and genji, nanjo, and kumasawa in on it. This is pretty much the only way to explain episode 1, anyway.

Are they still searching for the gold?

I'd prefer if the mastermind wasn't either of them, cause LOLSERVANTDIDIT is a terrible conclusion to a mystery, a la Dine's rules.

>>4135783
In retrospect, Jessica has to be an accomplice at the very least, because she was the only person who knew her mother would hang the scorpion charm on her door.
Kanon and Genji have to be in on it, because that would remove the closed room status of Hideyoshi and Eva's murders.

>>4135786
Ryukishi07 doesn't give a fuck about Dine's rules. Knox is all the rage these days.

...Though I like how he subverted rule 20.

>>4135792
What is rule 20?

"The" culprit? OP, there are at least two different factions on Rokkenjima, each with their own masterminds. There isn't just one culprit.

>>4135796

20) All of the following tricks and devices are verboten. They've been done to death or are otherwise unfair.

a) Comparing a cigarette butt with the suspect's cigarette.

>>4135801
I thought there were only two factions in the third episode as a result of Eva discovering the gold.

Episode 6: Dawn of the Golden Witch

* Translation: 0%
* Editing: 0%

;_;

Culprit, singular? OP, there are at least two different factions on Rokkenjima, each with their own masterminds. There isn't just one culprit.

>>4135796
Basically saying that using a cigarette found at the scene of the crime that matches the brand smoked by the culprit is a stupid way to have the culprit be discovered and you shouldn't use it. "Subversion" might not be the right term, but I liked how R07 had Battler break the rule, and ultimately come to the wrong conclusion (that Eva was the culprit). At the very least, Kyrie was the one who probably killed Nanjo, so there was more to the situation than Battler realized.

>>4135790
>implying the charm is the only possible reason Natsuhi was not killed and there was a mark on her door

Everyone who was awake in the mansion at midnight died. Everyone who was asleep survived. Maybe they were all poisoned, the ones who were asleep couldn't be poisoned so they weren't.

>>4135821
>Kyrie killed Nanjo
I thought it was Hideyoshi

>>4135801
There's one main culprit, that has a number of accomplices
The 2 factions thing could only happen in episode 3, and it probably wasn't even a case of factions, more like a string of unfortunate incidents, and the real culprit was still acting from behind the scenes.

Only butthurt ones would be ones, who didn't supposed it after EP4.
It was clear as day, butt they kept on "BATTLER SAW THEM IN EP5, I READ IT JAPANEESE, I SMART"

>>4135821
Nothing hints to Kyrie or Hideyoshi killing Nanjo though.

Reverse trap Shkannon would be amusing at least.

Shkannon has to pad, I don't see how it works otherwise, so maybe we'll get a Persona 4 Naoto look if it's true.

>>4135809
No. It clearly shows in 4. It's like a 3/4 way war happened. Between the killers that 'Knew what they were doing' the ones who 'picked up a gun and was simply shooting shit' and the ones 'who clearly did not know what they were doing when they killed this dude'

And finally the Staker (no body ever said the killer sticks the Stakes in the bodies actually if you go by the Episodes it seems a specific Stake corresponds to certain people. Which means there are 'ideal' people for each Stake) and the person who did first Twilight.

>>4135834
>>4135841
Kyrie was the only one who could have survived long enough with the wounds inflicted.

>>4135849
Hell, her Executed character TIP for Episode 3 states that stomach wounds aren't automatically fatal.

>>4135847
Episode 4 was a clusterfuck created by the real culprit to force Battler to remember his sin.
It wasn't a question of factions, the real culprit probably threatened and forced them to act like he wanted.

>Dine's Rules
I notice Agatha Christie broke like every single one of these

Before EP5, I wouldn't care too much. But after the whole scene of finding the truth behind that world and becoming the endless sorcerer, it'd be a little disappointing if it turns out he just solved that little Sayo/Joshua word game.

I would only be disappointed because it would go back to the trope "The Butler Did It" which is almost as lame as the Doctor always being an accomplice

OH WAIT

>>4135853
>>4135849
It's not a question of "could have".
It's a question of clues.
Nothing point to Kyrie or Hideyoshi killing Nanjo.
Think of the narrative first of all.

Thinking that a mortally injured Kyrie could come, kill Nanjo and then die immediately after, does it really seem plausible in the narrative found in Umineko for you?

>>4135869
Kanon isn't the butler, though. Genji is.

...Shit, Genji's the mastermind.

>>4135408
Sh/kanon are going to be a huge part of it, but Jessica is going to be the evil mastermind behind them, just you watch. At the very LEAST she's involved.

>>4135873
Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa are accomplices.
Also Butler, Maid, same shit.

>>4135855
We already saw in Episode 5 how good the culprit is at manipulating people when he completely controlled Natsuhi. It isn't impossible that he was controlling a half dozen people to fuck with Battler. Remember, Battler is always left until the end, so its apparent that he is the target of some kind of mental torment on the part of the culprit.

>>4135879
Beatrice doesn't kill people for revenge, hatred or to make them fear.
Also "without love it can't be seen".
The reason why Battler always lives till the end and why the real culprit is killing everyone is fucking obvious when you think of these.

>>4135874
Yeah. She's a deceptive little bitch, isn't she?

>>4135883
She kills for love?

>>4135869
But The Butler Did It isn't so much that the butler is the culprit, but more that THE BUTLER IS THE CULPRIT EVEN THOUGH IT WAS NOT PARTICULARLY DISCUSSED AT ALL WHAT A TWEEEEST.

Kanon is higly suspected by Battler in several instances.

>>4135889
More like Beatrice isn't the culprit.

So wait, the only murders we know for sure were Eva killing Battler in Episode 3 and Erika killing the "dead" people in Episode 6?

>>4135883
Beatrice is a bit of a jerk, isn't she?
Murderee #1: WHY ARE YOU KILLING ME?
Beatrice: Without love it can't be seen
Murderee #1: DO I LOOK LIKE SOME PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL, I DUNNO HOW BOUT YOU STOP STABBING ME YOU WHORE!

>>4135889
Yes.
Golden land, reunited with your lover, etc...

>>4135894
I can see the regrets dripping out of the corner of your mouth.

If Shkannontrice turns out to be the real deal, /jp/ will become worse than /a/ back when the last episodes of Gurren Langann were airing.

>>4135870
Somebody said it a few days ago.

Kyrie/Hideyoshi were never injured then killed Nanjo. They then chased after Jessica. Jessica being blind and running around was of course knocking shit down all around. This included vases. Jessica sooner or later trips. Kyrie/Nanjo comes up to kill her. They trip or Jessica waving around violently might have hit them in the crotch and they smashed their head into a vase or something where the glass may have gotten into the yes or throat (If it got it into the yes they clawed their own eyes out. If it got into the throat it shredded the windpipe). There were more but I forgot them. This was just the most memorable bits of the theory the anon gave.

>>4135408
Yes. Besides the fact that Shkannon hates Natsuhi and has a motif to kill her, she/he/they have no reason to go further.
And it's very implied Maria has problems. On a YOU KNOW BOSCO? level. So she actually going nuts and cooperating with Kyri... I mean, the culprit is believable.
bye

Pretty much any logical ending is going to make /jp/ rage, Ryukishi swung and miss yet again with the wrap up.

>>4135408
What does that say?
By the way, I had a dream last night similar to that picture. I tackled Kanon, and loudly annouced to everyone, that THAT MAN ISN'T A MAN, SHE'S A WOMAN! whilst ripping off "his" shirts.

When I woke up my sheets were oddly damp.

>>4135901
>into the yes
>into the eyes

>>4135901
It's also fucking stupid.

>>4135874

She's also the only female we can prove has at the very least overheard a "whats your type" discussion, which is more clues than we can say for Shannon or Kannon.

Also, don't they show up in the same room 2 or 3 times in Episode 5? Once in the beginning, once during the scene in Kinzo's study, and once at the end with Natsuhi's confession?

>>4135901
Well, Jessica having her flip out in episode 3 makes me think that things went NOT AS PLANNED for her.

If she is indeed part of the whole thing, she would be one of the masterminds, seeing as how much she lies in episode 4, where things DO seem to go her way, for the most part.

>>4135901
Here it is:
http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/4119846#p4120701

>>4135922
Jessica is fucking sketchy, everyone agrees with this, more or less.
Precisely HOW sketchy she is varies from person to person, but remember, she still remains sketchy.

>>4135922
Battler was obviously talking to Shannon in the "what's your type" scene.
Also episode 5 had an unreliable POV.

>>4135936
>Also episode 5 had an unreliable POV.

I can understand the first scene, but the other two had Erika taking control through most of it.

>>4135934
I think she's a wild card. Sometimes she goes along with Kyrie, sometimes she doesn't.

>>4135923
Actually, Episode 4 is probably the most ideal for the True Culprit. Hell the Staker being different then the Killer also proves this. The Staker could do whoever he/she was ordered too without any worries.

After all, it's the only one where Beatrice herself appears to talk to Battler. This proves it was nothing could go against her even if things go NOT AS PLANNED.

>>4135943
The POV stayed unreliable all the way through, we never saw anything from Erika POV.
You should have understood this when she started using red text and lots of bullshit unrealistic power in the real world.

>>4135946
Episode 4 is where Jessica is THE most suspicious, thou-oh, I see what you're getting at.
Well, maybe.

>>4135943
>Everyone gathers at one point of Ep.5
>It states 18 people
>Red text in Episode 6 is there is only 17 people
This means regardless of Erika being next to Battler she will not say anything she finds strange (like someone not being there).

Gotta wonder where Shkannon stores those huge tumors.

>>4135956
It never states that there's 18 persons in that room.

>>4135960
Binding tape. Tons of binding tape.

>>4135966
Or maybe Shkanon is a guy and someone is stuffing their bra.

>>4135960
We don't even know if she has those tits.

Umineko is a third-rate mystery.

>>4135968
Nah, Shannon offered to let Battler feel her up. Besides, Shannon existed before Kanon.

>>4135975
Can't argue with that.

I wouldn't even advise it as a way to enter the mystery genre. At this point I just read it for the EPICK MAGICK SWORD FIGHTZ

>>4135981
Offer =/= Actually doing it

While I agree Jessica seems suspicious...

IDONTWANTTOACCUSEMYFAMILYIDONTWANTTOACCUSEMYFAMILYUWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>4135986
Yes, but only BAD things could result from that if she was a guy. There is NOTHING GOOD that could have happened had he taken her offer.

>>4135992
Shit makes me rage, he supposedly knows the truth, and he still won't confront the culprit.

>>4135965
That is what I meant. We were talking about unreliable narrators. And guess what? Erika AND Battler are in there. And he is saying whenever Erika is there it's pretty much red text.

>>4136002
And yes it does say 18. It-Battler literally says everyone on this island then gives a list of 18 names are in that room.

>>4135993
So?

>>4136002
>And he
I mean >>4135943


No I don't feel like deleting posts. It takes too long.

>>4136013
>>4136002
# Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.
# In other words, the number of people in this parlor now is equal to the total number of people on this island.

Only red texts used in this scene, not how nothing is said about the real number of people in the room.
Everything else is bullshit.

>>4135981
>>4135993
If Jessica is in on it, it would make sense for her to intervene in any case. Shkannon knew this, and kept up the charade knowing that Jessica would smack Battler down before he got a good feel.

I'm not saying Shkannon isn't necessarily male, but it's either that or she's flat-chested. Nobody can bind tits as big as Shannon's and breathe.

>>4136030
*is

>>4136000
Well, that's because I think he STILL WANTS TO BELIEVE.
Shit's going to all fall down next episode though.
I'd love for the culprit to become Meta-Culprit, and kill Bernkastel and Featherine in like one hit just to show you what Battler is fucking with.

>>4136030
And there's no hint of binding to the point of flat, seriously.

Shannon being flat sounds reasonable enough.

>>4136050
I figure Shannon is a female with a small chest, but have we found evidence that she pads?

>>4136050
Oh /jp/, you just want another loli to fap to, don't you?
It's useless, it's all useless, PIECE BEATO WOULD HAVE REAL BREASTS! IF SHANNON WERE FLAT, IT WOULD MORE MORE SENSE FOR PIECE BEATO TO BE JESSICA!

>>4136062
Fine, neither have evidence, but are we saying that Shannon binded her huge breasts to the point that she looks flat?

>>4136069
If it worked for Ukyo Kounji, it can work for her.

>>4136027
>Only red texts used in this scene, not how nothing is said about the real number of people in the room.
>Everything else is bullshit.
.... Isn't that what I'm trying to say...?

I'm saying Battler is no longer useful, and Erika despite peoples claims, is also useless. One person was not in that room, and no body mentioned it. Because that 'person' doesn't exist.

>>4136069
No, I don't support that at all, if Ryukishi tried that, he's more of a fucking idiot than I thought.

>>4136077
You CAN bind large breasts, guys. It's not unrealistic, I'm a semi-professional actor, it happens all the time with some of the people I work with.

>>4136065
Shannon have small breasts would actually support Shkannontrice, since shota Battler said he liked blonde and bouncy. She's not either, which adds to the "I can't love him any longer."

>>4136086
She's at least a D cup, are you saying it's possible to bind that shit to look totally flat?

>>4136094
And be comfortable and mobile, to add.

>>4136094
Well, to be frank, yes. George proposes to Shannon, he'd know if she had fake breasts, you know.

It was the REAL Battler all along.

>>4136106
What if he knew she was flat and didn't make any comment about it?

>>4136086
But the fact is Kanon is some really thin and lanky kid. While it may be possible to bind them, you would see them somewhat through the clothes. Therefore, you must cover the whole front area but Kanon as Battler is really thin and weak for a guy at 16.

>>4136116
Then he's a moron. Besides, he's into keeping his RAAB in the loop, he wouldn't want her to be deceptive.

>>4136129
>Then he's a moron.
Hey if it's that easy.

It'll be interesting to see Jessica's motive, that's for certain. I myself am banking on the fair lady to be one of the most evil characters in the series.

>>4136137
But he's GEORGEUWA! HE CAN'T BE STUPID!

>>4136129
Yeah no, I doubt he's a moron.

But I don't think he even had sex with her yet - probably didn't even do anything too far beyond kissing either, like breast fondling.

If George is all knowing about Shannon, then wouldn't he know about Shannon/Kanon and keep that a secret?

>>4136151
I can't see Jessica as too smart or willing to kill. EP 6 she can't even kill Kyrie without being possessed so I ping her more as 'all talk no punch'

>>4136162
Yeah, but still, he proposed to her, I'd find it unrealistic at best that she's wearing any sort of disguise with him.

With Jessica we have a pass because she's in on it, but with George, not so much.

>>4136168
First off, that was her entering terminator mode, not -direct- possession. And arguing that a character is stupid because she couldn't kill Kyrie without using magic presumes she knew magic in the first place.

>>4136121
He's think and weak for a 16 year old boy because he is actually a woman.

>>4136194
Still, once again, Beatrice would have the real breasts. Battler is a master breast detective, if nothing else.

>>4136168
>All talk, no punch
EP4 and Ronove would like to have a word with you.

>>4136106
Not to mention her breasts seemed pretty real when she was squishing them up against him in Episode 1.

>>4136205
You know realize that that never happened, and she was most likely murdering George with a gun.

>>4136211
*now

>>4136190
She was somewhat possessed however - Furfur and Zepar came in and said that they enchanted her immortality and power. Plus she was crying after killing Kyrie and asked Kanon to forgive her for the murder.

>>4136217
Yes, after she cackled about Kyrie burning in hell.
Still, that scene doesn't clear her of anything.

Kanon's real name is Nara.

>>4136247
It's Joshua, lol.

>>4136243
Again she cackled about it while still in gray eyes mode.

Also, if she meant any of the shit she said about Kyrie then she is a true retard. You do not compare 12 hour teenage romance to 18 years of loving devotion.

>>4136253
No, it's Yoshiya.

>>4136253
A JEW?!?!

>>4136264
that explains the beret.

it's hiding his yamaka.

Early on in EP5, the red text of "the number of people on this island is the same as the number of people in this room". Regardless of whether any of these people were fake from Battler's perspective, Erika herself would be able to tell just exactly who was who thanks to her Detective's Authority.

This next scene in EP5 showed that Erika acknowledged the existence of Shannon and Kanon. At this point, we are not sure if Shannon and Kanon are two different individuals or just two identities of the same person, but at the very least, somebody is using these names and Erika knows who he/she/they are.

In EP6, Erika has trouble breaking through Battler's red text of "there are only 17 people on this island, including you". If Shannon and Kanon really were the same person, Erika would have absolutely no trouble solving this. After all, she knows who Kanon is, and who Shannon is.

And yet, she can't do it.

>>4136264
Gesundheit

>>4136259
Meh, I think you are using too little to refute too much.
That scene isn't her being directly possessed, and she does kill Kyrie. Now, if you wanna claim that she isn't smart or capable because she needed enhancement from trap demons, fine, but the fight with Ronove proves she can handle herself, from a strictly fantasy point of view. And it wasn't direct possession, so she did intend kill Kyrie, fantasy speaking.

I mean in reality no one killed anyone besides Erika, but fantasy-wise yeah.


In the end though, that one fantasy scene is not enough to discredit her as a culprit. Hell, if anything it makes her suspicious, how odd that she fights Kyrie, of all people?

>>4136283
...good point.

>>4136286
I wasn't saying she isn't capable of killing. I just mean that she did hesitate before and said she only gained the courage go all out after Kyrie told her about her miracle of love and all that.

As for fighting Kyrie its stated by Zepar and Furfur that it was a random choice. She just picked the first person she saw.

The real question is... which person would not be dissapointing if he/she became the culprit?
All the "Rokkenjima Massacre" cast fall into stereotypes:
The servant did it: Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Kumasawa.
The cook did it: Magical Gohda Chef
The doctor did it: Nanjo
People with painfully obvious probable motives (money): Rudolf+Kyrie, Eva+Hideyoshi, Krauss+Natsuhi, Rosa
Apparently innocent familiar: George, Jessica, Maria,... duh let's count Battler for EP5 and onwards.

We can start eliminating people like Krauss (incompetent) and Gohda (naive), yet every ultimate suspect will fall into a category.
...Of course, any culprit will be way better that Shkanontrice.

>>4136283
So, assuming Umineko follows Knox's rules and the red is interpreted as true, EP5 broke the Shkannon theory a long while ago...

>>4136283
But then you have the problem of the red text used at the end of Episode 6, which states that, including Erika, it's 17 people. Meaning without Erika, there are only 16 people.

>>4136309
Shkannon is highlighted because it is the most available option.

>>4136309
IT'S BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD, PEOPLE

>>4136296
Meh, she hesistated in a fantasy scene that correlated to no one actually being murdered. She sure didn't hesistate to lie to Battler in episode 4.

>>4136309
Wrong.

The red is just "It's 17 people", instead of "including Erika, there are 17 people on the island".

so,
"It's 17 people."
"I'm the 18th person on the island."
and include:
"The number of people in this room is equal to the number of people on this island."

Shannon/Kanon is painfully obvious at this point.

>>4136374
Oh, it's his trap alright.
But then who was Beato?

>>4136365

Ryukishi's trap. Do not stop thinking.
Did you forget everything Lambda said? Do you also think Natsuhi's the culprit?

>>4136346
> The red is just "It's 17 people", instead of "including Erika, there are 17 people on the island".
Wrong.

("Birth of a new witch" was playing in this scene, by the way.)

>>4136365
Solve the Erika paradox, then.

>>4136376

I'm talking about ShKannon, Shannontrice I don't really care, as it is "alright" with me. I'd like Beato to be her own person, though.

>>4136388
She's not her own person, the limits on the island have confirmed that. Have YOU stopped thinking?

>>4136384
Kanon is the original Battler. Battler is also a Battler. They, uh, count the two Battlers as, uh, one person? Yes I know its stupid.

>>4136377
No, the trap was in Episode 5.

>>4136392

No, I haven't. That's why I said "I'd like".
>>4136378

Complete translation please.

>>4136397
Don't be desperate. It's great to think of Beatrice as her own person, but that's about shot to hell right now, even more so with the Erika paradox.

Kanon and Shannon are NOT the same person. No body doubles existed for episode 1, and Shannon was really killed. They are very likely to be the culprits for episode 1 though.

>>4136412

Only Hideyoshi saw Shannon's corpse. How is that reliable? Her body was identified, so body double tricks are allowed to exist for her.

I'm just waiting for Jessitrice to come back in troll throttle. Seriously, all you have to do is to take the basic Pony Theory and have Shannon switch places with Jessica, and you're golden.

>>4136407
First panel: Erika introducing herself
Second panel: Erika stating that she's the 18th person
Third: Battler saying "....Sorry, but,"
Fourth: Beatrice saying "Including you,"
Fifth: Battler + Beatrice saying "it's 17 people."

>>4136412
The body double tricks were only applied to those unidentified bodies (face full smashed). Shannon and Krauss were both half-smashed

>>4136437
That'd be funny. Wait, shit. That could actually make a lick of sense.

>>4136443
Yeah. So we're down to 16 people. Unless Battler = George, Shkanon is obvious.
>>4136437
Interesting concept. Shannon doesn't remember what Battler said to "her", so I can kind of see it.

>>4136490
>Shkanon is obvious.
Have you been paying any attention to the thread at all or what

>>4136499
I have. Listen, the text says "Including Erika, it's 17 people".
Meaning it's 16 people, which is one less than we had before, meaning someone is samefagging.
You can use your convoluted explanations all you want, the numbers speak for themselves.

>>4136511
If that was true, then Erika could have solved the problem herself. But she couldn't.

The biggest problem here is that Erika, the detective, despite seeing all of the people in Rokkenjima in EP5, could NOT see Kanon and Shannon as the same person.

>>4136490
> Shannon doesn't remember what Battler said to "her"
Uh... how long ago was it that you played Episode 3?

Up until now, hasn't the difference been something like:

"There are no more than X on this island?"

Does this episode confirm that there is a solid 17 on the island and this won't change at any given time?

>>4136547
As far as we can tell, yes.

>>4136534
That scene was narrated from Battler's POV, which is unreliable.
Oh, and you are still dodging the question. 16 people on the island, someone is samefagging.

>>4136499

Shkanon is obvious

That does not mean ShKanon is the culprit.

>>4136560
this.

people just assume that because of Shkannon(trice) it means that they're the culprit.

Battler never sees Kanon and Shanon together
George never talks with Kanon
In Ep1 Kanon says his duty is to watch Shannon.
In Ep 1 Shannon's body is not unidentified, it retains half a face, that Battler never got to look at.
In fact there are no scenes depicting Battler's point of view with both of their corpses.
Both Kanon and Shannon can see Beatrice in Ep2
Virgilia's line: "Shannon and Kanon were originally a furniture pair."
Erika was never shown Kanon and Shanon apart


I could go on.. Shanon= Kanon. Enjoy your denial.

>>4136558
It doesn't matter what WE see in that scene, but ERIKA can see exactly who was who in that room. That's the entire point.

If Shannon and Kanon were the same person, then Erika would immediately be able to tell this.

>>4136568
Also, it doesn't mean there are never a Kanon and a Shannon. Maybe Kanon kills Shannon, hides her body (sometimes) and then starts samefagging.

>>4136589
What about the "Kanon was killed in this room", with Shannon still alive? Don't give me that crap of "Kanon as an identity".

>>4136676
Why not? the truth hurts?

>>4136644
That brings up another dilemma, though.

A Kanon and a Shannon, two different individuals, had to have existed during Erika's introduction. However, there are still seventeen people total on the island by that time. If Shannon was Kanon, or vice versa, who was disguised as the other person?

>>4136691
It's too stupid and forceful. A truly attack against our intelligence.

>>4136691

There is no single truth in a place where no one got out of alive.

>>4136691
Because personalities and names cannot be killed off.

>>4136701
And Ryukishi has never done such a thing before, no?

>>4136699
The number of people in the start of the game is always the same, but nothing is said about who are these people.

Shannon wears pads

>>4136716
Yes, but by Knox's 7th, Erika knows exactly who was missing during her introduction. If Kanon was missing, she could use the established truth of Ep. 5 by Lambdadelta to say that Kanon did not exist, or that Kanon was disguised as somebody else.

>>4136378
I don't see the Kanji for Erika.

>>4136782
Beatrice says "including you", and she says it to Erika.

There are 17 people.
Genji is a robot.

>>4136787
Then why is everyone being an idiot and saying that Beato and Battler are saying Erika?

Watch you guys

R07 will find some way to lower the count again

"There are no more than 15 people on this island"

AND. SHIT. WILL. HIT. THE. FAN!

>>4136779
Actually I'd like to point out I don't think Kanon said ANYTHING at the time when everyone was gathered it even said (under Battler's perspective) that Kanon was his usual quiet self. Therefore, he could have been a dummy.

Any counterarguments are utterly irrelevant until the red of there being only 16 people + Erika can be worked logically without samefagging. Someone does not actually exist, unless Ryukishi is proposing they're not human. Maybe we'll get a vampire Kanon, thoroughly fuck over this stupid ass story.

>>4136814

Turns out only Battler is on the island and he's hallucinating everything from the "suspicious muscle enhancement drugs" he ordered.

Mystery solved.

>>4136814
A player controls 16 pieces in Chess. Considering this is Ryukishi, I would think he wanted to make the chessboard metaphor dead literal from the start.

I will lick alkl of your tears when Ryukishi confirm the samefaging

>>4136814
>AND. SHIT. WILL. HIT. THE. FAN!
Not my fan, bro, more like my keyboard.

>>4136824
> unless Ryukishi is proposing they're not human
Looks like somebody needs to reread Episode 3.

>>4136834
Would explain the end of EP4

>>4136846
>implying Ryukishi gives a fuck about his own rules
To begin with, Erika was throwing out the red in reality, made everyone compliant to her will with some bullshit Detective's Authority, and we're to believe she just overlooked Shannon or Kanon not being there? Or even worse, being tricked?

Ryukishi fucked up horribly, Erika should not be able to make such a grievous error, but she did, because there's no other way around it.

>>4136857
And you seem to have missed the part where we don't actually know what the fuck Erika saw, and that Erika using red text on the gameboard should have been a hint that the narration can't be trusted even when the detective is on the scene.

>>4136870
(The only gameboard-side stuff that can be trusted is the direct POV of the detective.)

Hey guys,

Remember that line where Battler says "What if I told you I liked flat chested lolis with black hair."

If Shkanon is true, this is amazing ironic forshadowing.

>>4136870
That's the point, if Erika didn't see one of them, why would she claim there is 17? Ryukishi is just going to try some bullshit where he'll say "SHE JUS DIINT HV ENUFF OLEV LOL", and disregard the fact that the detective cannot be tricked.

>>4136879
Well, event-wise. Characterization is fairly trustworthy.

>>4136886
You know what is fucking huge foreshadowing in that scene? Beatrice's line where she says "Am I not the embodiment of your ideal?"

I got a chill when I went back and noticed that after having read Episode 6.

>>4136819
This line could actually be a big hint, because the Kanon persona may be dormant usually, so being his "Usual quiet self" might mean that Kanon is "dormant within Shannon as usual"

>>4136907
Yeah, and Shannon and Jessica are like supposed to be best friends, right?

Ryukishi has a total hard on for jealousy. Just look at Meakashi hen. A small sin that inspired a single feeling of jealousy created a shitstorm.

>>4136907
That entire scene is packed with Chiru foreshadowing. Remember Beatrice's talk about Battler becoming the black king?

>>4136886
Well...

Fuck.

So in episode 3 there are two Shkanon's bodies? He/she made a replica just to get killed himself/herself after?

>>4136932
What if the Fuukin House (or whatever that orphanage is called) turns out to be the same one or related to the one Takano went to.

Breading home for villains.

>breeding

>>4136959
Ryukishi hates orphans.

He's like the japanese Count Olaf.

>>4136947
No, Episode 3 was probably a bit of a clusterfuck, with Team Beatrice getting killed off right at the beginning.

>>4136977
I am asking this to the shkannon believers. Why is there a double?

>>4136988
Battler never saw Kanon's corpse, and it was never stated in red to be in the chapel.

>>4136993
6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!
in red.

>>4136998
And as Episode 6 shows, it's possible to count them as separate people. Erika was able to state that she was the 18th person in red, after all.

>>4136993
By the way, I'm talking about episode 3. The closed rooms thing.

>>4137003
(The alternative, of course, is that Kanon died at some point previously and the Kanon we see is Shannon trying to fill in his role.)

>>4135408
:getaccess:

>>4137012
Doesn't work; it's been stated in red that no one could mistake a different person for Kanon.

So... what about the fact the detective in past games, Battler, has seen both of them at the same time?

This theory makes me rage.

>>4137083
Only in the meta world. On the gameboard, Battler never saw them together when he was the detective.

So, is Battler the son of his father and Natsuhi or not?

The major flaw in shkannon is how the fuck s/he manages to do the work of 2 servants and get 2 paychecks without the employers noticing anything

>>4137129
I wouldn't put it past robot maid with breast missiles

>>4137120
And by his father I mean Rudolf.

>>4137083
>So... what about the fact the detective in past games, Battler, has seen both of them at the same time?

That never happens.

>>4137090
>>4137129
Not only that, most of the cast would have to be in on it.

Maybe Battler's sin of 6 years ago is accidentally killing Shannon or something, and everyone just agreed to a cover-up because nobody would miss some servant girl. Maybe when Battler returns George and Kanon plot some sort of revenge against him. George was willing to make himself an enemy of the rest of his family for Sayo.

>>4137162
So why do they kill everyone instead of just Battler? Stupid theory.

>>4137162
Meanwhile George played a game of pretend with Kanon in Okinawa

>>4135408
Yes.
Genji is the real killer.

>>4137186
Genji and Gohda are the same person.

Rudolph and Kyrie are the same person

>>4137165
Wasn't it said in Episode 5 that a possible motive for the murders (following an epitaph and the mutilated corpses and such instead of quick and clean) could be to put the fear of death into the last person left? Or something like that.

Battler and Beatrice are the same person.

>>4137176
He IS a creepy virgin. Maybe he was spending some quality time with his waifu? Oh ho ho~

>>4136824

There are 16 people = Shannon and Kanon are the same person. Really, what kind of reasoning is that? The theory has already been disproved, so it's your onus to come up with a new one, not mine.

>>4136824

There are 16 people = Shannon and Kanon are the same person? Really, what kind of reasoning is that? The theory has already been disproved, so it's your onus to come up with a new one, not mine.

Pretty sure somebody is masquerading, but it doesn't have to be Shannon or Kanon.

>>4137632
> The theory has already been disproved
Except it hasn't.

>>4137191
>>4137213
Hey, /jp/
The entire cast is the same person. That person is R07.
Who is actually Bern.
Who is Aizen.
Who is Kubo.
R07 = Kubo

>>4137648
Erika could not claim that Shannon was Kanon or vice versa, despite knowing fully well who Shannon and Kanon were, and being able to see everybody on the island at least once. Her detective authority granted by Knox's 7th would not allow her to lie.

Unless you can find a flaw in this somehow, the Shkanon theory is broken.

>>4137655

I'd be angry at you for dragging that /a/ shit in here and implying that the author of a piece of shonenshit could actually be a troll and not a retard, but at the rate things are going, umineko is going end up retarded shit too.

Didn't Battler see both Kanon and Shannon at the same time in EP5?

>>4137685

Didn't it also say that battler saw Kinzo in episode 5?

>>4137685
Battler's view is not impartial.

>>4137673
The flaw is that we don't actually know how Erika interacted with Shannon and Kanon, because we only have the narrative of Episode 5 to rely on. In other words, we have no fucking clue what Erika actually saw.

>>4137677
It's the same logic that states that Shanon and Kanon are the same person.
And equally as retarded.

In fact, all of Umineko went full retard when such theories began popping up.

>>4137700
They both gave their opinions on Natsuhi's story though.

>>4137707
Goddammit, then fucking come up with a better explanation for everything that happens at the end of Episode 6 and eliminates all the inconsistencies that at the moment can only be resolved with Shkanon! Because I fucking can't do it!

>>4137715
Let us get a translation first...

I cant wait until they reveal Kanon is really a girl

>>4137715
Wait for R07 to confirm or deny it. Don't make stupid theories.
Fuck, give me time and I'll make Genji the main culprit. Or Dr. Nanjo.

>>4137700
There's only two options for what Erika saw. She either did see them together, which would explain her silence, or she didn't.

If she didn't, she could easily use a theory for Shkanon. This level of reasoning is possible for Erika Furudo. However, she didn't say anything like that.

>>4137744
Genji = Krauss they were never seen together at the same time. Genji being bald can wear a wing easily.

>>4137772
>This level of reasoning is possible for Erika Furudo.
Sorry, but Erika is not good at unconventional theories. This is something I would expect from someone like Battler who spouts ridiculous shit all the time. For example: how come Erika never questions the existence of a Hidden Cabinet? Normally, you would only think of hidden passageways, not a super secret hiding spot.

This is why Erika couldn't believe Kinzo would jump out the window.

And yes, Shkanon is unconventional.

>>4137807
Erika is kinda like Battler.
She goes incompetent when her theory is even questioned a LITTLE.

>>4137874
It's all useless.

If you really dislike Shkanontrice then just pirate the rest of the episodes until it's proven wrong, and if it turns out to be true then at least you didn't waste your money.

>>4137807
That example's not going to fly here.

If Shkanon was true, then Erika was greeted by everybody on the island except for two people that were supposed to be there. That is, Kinzo and the other servant. Erika knows of Kanon and Shannon's existence, so you can't say that she had no knowledge of them either. Finally, her awareness of the red means that she can be sure that everybody she sees in that room really is everybody on the island.

That means that she HAD to be aware that Kanon was Shannon's other identity, or vice versa. She knows of the two, and if she saw only one of them, she can only deduce the that the other was a fictional being.

However, she can't do that for Battler's red. Therefore, she could not have seen Shannon or Kanon together.

>>4137807
That example's not going to fly here.

If Shkanon was true, then Erika was greeted by everybody on the island except for two people that were supposed to be there. That is, Kinzo and the other servant. Erika knows of Kanon and Shannon's existence, so you can't say that she had no knowledge of them either. Finally, her awareness of the red means that she can be sure that everybody she sees in that room really is everybody on the island.

That means that she HAD to be aware that Kanon was Shannon's other identity, or vice versa. She knows of the two, and if she saw only one of them, she can only deduce the that the other was a fictional being.

However, she can't do that for Battler's red. Therefore, she could only have seen Shannon or Kanon together.

>>4137744
Sorry, boy, but I firmly believe the goal of Umineko is to solve EP1 entirely.
And EP3 clearly stated in red in reference to EP1: Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo did not commit murder.
I got your point. You sent it badly, though.

>>4137963
>However, she can't do that for Battler's red. Therefore, she could not have seen Shannon or Kanon together.
Well, that's the only possible explanation.

But as I said, Erika doesn't shoot out crazy theories that go against Witches and shit. Which is why she was stumped on how the letter got in front of the door and how the knock happened. Battler would have said if no one touched it and there was no interference by anyone inside and out of the room that orangutan X (Doesn't go against Knox. This was stated by Evatrice therefore we were given foreshadowing time) must have done it.

Erika likes to say the blatantly obvious things first and would stick with it until it is truly denied completely. Then goes on to an even more conventional theory. However, when someone says an old man would jump off a building or climb down the rain gutter she would not believe it. As it is ridiculous. Two people being the same person is ridiculous. Erika follows the conventional mystery logic. Battler follows Absurd Theories 101.

i don't know how they'd explain how unless it's a direct narrative of the detective shit it's not reliable in an anime adaption of Chiru.

Good thing it'll never happen dohoho

>>4138043
Again, it's not a matter of "crazy theories".

Erika saw who was in that room. If there was somebody that she didn't see in that room, she would know that that person did not exist. She might not want to come up with crazy theories, but she takes far too much pride in her own observation skills. It's not that much of a crazy theory anyway; after all, it's simply just a disguise when you think about it.

>>4138096
Then please explain how Erika saw 17 people in the room, beside herself, when according to Battler and Beatrice there are only 16.

>>4138124
Actually, I don't need to.

All I'm doing is showing that there was no way that Erika would not have noticed Shkanon. Why Erika would see 18 people in that room is another thing entirely.

So, totally off topic but... That letter in episode 5. Let's talk about why the people in the dining hall would lie about that.

>>4138519
Wasn't it stated in red that there WAS a knock, though?