/jp/ - Otaku Culture

he said ep2 was the hardest for a reson, just check the difficulty level in the presentation of the episode

First rate at proving ShKanontrice.

I'd probably say:
Episode 1: Normal mode.
Episode 2: Hard mode.
Episode 3: Easy mode.
Episode 4: ???

Wishing he released land of the golden witch. I want my lunatic modo.

>>4185893
What's up with the difficulties exactly?

Episode 2 is easy.
Episode 3 is harder actually.
But they are all easy more or less.

How can a Umineko game be hard? Sure, it might be hard in the sense that you can't find make a logical theory to the events, but it's not like you ever get stuck like in a normal game.

>>4185906
People who think they figured out what silliness happens.

What was the deal with Battler saying his turn hasn't come up, or whatever? At the time I figured Meta was somehow directly controlling him or whatever, and then just forgot about it. Seemed so out of place.

>>4185941
Explain the knock and letter in Ep. 5.

Land of the Golden Witch was just a completely unreliable episode, kinda like episode 5, but probably without the Knox's rules or all that red text to help the reader.

>>4185959
No knock, they are all playing along, same for the letter.

>>4185964

>>4185945
I'd say the difficulties are for mystery types who aren't interested in explaining things with unlimited body double works, duplicate keys and bullshit reasons for pieces making illogical moves.

I have seen all of those, sometimes in one theory, used to explain various aspects of episode 2. Unlike episode three, coming up with a theory that doesn't use such devices is HARD hence hard mode.

All of the good episodes have little of Maria

>>4185959
THE KNOCK IS A LIE
THE KNOCK IS A LIE
THE KNOCK IS A LIE
THE KNOCK IS A LIE
THE KNOCK IS A LIE

How did R07 classify EP6?
UWOOOOO-mode?

>>4186000
If you don't love Maria you have no heart.

>>4186008
Confession mode, there's no difficulty level any longer.

>>4186014
And if you do not enjoy seeing her suffering, you put your humor points in tolerance.

>>4186014
Oh Maria, such a little mongoloid.

>>4185959
It wasn't really at that time.

>>4186017
Well now that Beatrice isn't controlling the game board, the pieces are moving in really strange formations.

Those silly witches are still following the rules of the game, so the main thing the second part is good for is for helping show noobies the rules of the game.

Trying to get more out of it is possible, but frustrating in the manner of a Last Word.

Here's a puzzle if you want to waste some time with episode five. When was Kinzo's body moved and by whom?

>>4186031
I'd rather waste it on theories on EP2.

So lets see the culprits:

Episode 1: Kanon
Episode 2: Rosa
Episode 3: Eva
Episode 4: They all started killing which other and then BOOM
Episode 5: Natsuhi
Episode 6: LOLERIKA and BOOM

amidoinitrite ?

>>4186054
Yes.

>>4186054
Culprit is always the same, except for episode 6 but that was because of Battler screwing up.
Accomplices can change though.

Erika was the culprit
/thread

>>4186054
Hey look on the bright side, at least you can get the answer right when rukishi07 tells you what the answer is.

>>4186054
> Episode 3: Kyrie
ftfy

>>4186067
I disagree. Counter example, Eva is the culprit in episode 3. Presentation of evidence. Eva shoots Battler.

It is impossible for Eva to be the culprit in episode 1, because she died during the first twilight.

>>4186092
That was Godah dressed as Eva.

>>4186138
How do you go around the red text saying Gohda is dead then?

>>4186092
Eva shoots Battler, but that doesn't mean she's the culprit. She probably killed at most 3 people.

>>4186092
Eva was just delusional and feverish, also battler's death tips, wolves and sheep puzzle, if Eva was sure she wasn't the culprit, then who was, the person right in front of you

>>4186092
I do not accept Eva as the culprit of Episode 3. Rather, I suspect Kyrie. My evidence: Someone killed Nanjo near the end of Episode 3. It was neither Jessica nor Eva nor Battler. We are told in Kyrie's character TIP that stomach wounds are not necessarily immediately fatal. Hideyoshi and Rudolf, however, were struck in places that would almost certainly be fatal. Thus, I believe that Kyrie is the one most likely to have killed Nanjo. Working back from that, it is possible to formulate a theory with Kyrie as Episode 3's culprit, though that does not necessarily mean that Eva did not kill anyone, either out of fear or simple mental instability due to everything that had occurred.

>>4186152
The one who died was just one of Godah's personalities.

>>4186161
Now it all makes sense!

>>4186158
I can't accept the "Kyrie killed Nanjo and then instantly died" theory, too contrived, this murder is one of the strongest weapon of the fantasy side after all.

>>4186092
Disagree. Eva likely was not the culprit of EP3, and she died in the second twilight of EP1.

Eva would have been way too obvious.

>>4186161
>Godah's personalities.
these DID theories are becoming silly scapegoats

>>4186153
That argument has brightline issues. You could use this sort of thinking to say that Natsuhi shoots Hideyoshi in episode 5, because "just because she isn't the culprit means that she isn't allowed to shoot someone"

And besides, I can't imagine a motive for Eva shooting Battler with that sort of look on her face that would not feel contrived if we go with your assumption.

>>4186182
>Eva would have been way too obvious.

I think ep. 3 is supposed to be a starting point for working out ep. 1-3. You get the who handed to you on a silver platter, but the how becomes really hard. Besides, we have Eva shooting Battler. How would you explain her confessing to going to kill Battler if you think she's not the culprit?

>>4186189
The problem is that Umineko isn't a mystery, it is a semantic game. All you do is to discuss the possible ambiguities of red and gold, thus, shit like that ends up being used as theories.

>>4186158
Nah, that's too unlikely. Too much time passed between Kyrie getting shot and Nanjo dying. At most, Hideyoshi shot Rudolf and Kyrie, she killed Hideyoshi and then passed away from the wound.

>>4186208
She snapped. For all you know she was fighting against the culprit. I don't believe she killed George or Hideyoshi for a second.

So when Battler accuses her of being the culprit, the one going around killing everybody, she lost it and shot him. Given the circumstances surrounding everything I'd say that's not much of a stretch.

Besides, you should always take things at the end portions of the game with a grain of salt. In EP1 he saw Beatrice step out of the portrait, and during EP2 he was eaten by goats (even if that was third person narration.)

>>4186189
I think what he's trying to do, is demonstrate how the whole "Shannon/Kanon did episode 3, the red text refers to their alternate personalities" thing, instead of throwing light onto Umineko, like a good theory should, clouds the game in darkness by making "X is dead" red text seem suspicious.

I also think that saying that Eva is not the culprit in episode 3, she just shoots someone, throws the "Natsuhi is not the culprit" red text in episode 5 into doubt.

I prefer to completely avoid theories that involve assuming that the red text is playing word games.

"Just because they're 'dead' doesn't mean a body can be produced"
"Just because they're 'not the culprit' doesn't mean they haven't shot anyone"
"Just because 'no duplicate keys exist' doesn't mean that a device hasn't been created which can open the door"
"Just because they 'were not killed by traps' doesn't mean that a device didn't kill them"

You gotta draw the line somewhere.

>>4186219
To help you, let me go to Nanjo's death. What he says might be helpful to defend an argument, even if it's not an objective POV.

Tea had poison.
They all drank tea.
Battler was all alone in EP4 and died
it was because of tea
Tea is the true mastermind

>>4186251
Teapot, actually.

IT WAS TEATRICE ALL ALONG

>>4186251
Fuck yeah, Teatrice!!!

>>4186251
Teatrice still remains the most sensible theory to this day.

>>4186213
I believe the author intended it to be a mystery, not a semantic game. I think that people have used semantics as a substitute for thinking.

>>4186182
Episode 3 is obvious for the most part, hence easy mode. Now go read episode 2.

>>4186251
But in episode one Eva clearly showed that she knew how to detect poison....

It's like in And then there were none, vera killed lombard, but wasn't the culprit.

>>4186259
Because it's the true, the teapot killed everyone, even Battler

>>4186261
lolno she was just showing off.

>>4186251
MIND BLOWN

>>4186263
I believe that there are similar occurrences in Umineko. However I don't believe that ryukishi07 would have written in red "Vera is not the culprit" if Ten Little Niggers was written in the same style, because that would be doing this: http://xkcd.com/169/

And I don't think ryukishi07 does that.

>>4186263
it was just reasonable, there are 2 people, you aren't the culprit, there's just one possibility

Dress Beatrice really looks like a teapot.

Beatrice killed everyone.

She died a long time ago, but the tea she spiked with poison remained on the day of the family conference.

They all drank it. They all died. Then the bomb Teatrice set as a backup measure erased all of the evidence.

This explains everything.

>>4186261
She wasn't brought silver spoons at first, though.
>>4186250
Jessica hears a bang, so she could've been shot by either one of the three in the guest house or Eva - the latter denied in red. Nanjo can't understand what he's looking at, and begs for his life (This could be seeing Kyrie bleeding to death and threatening him instantly, which could amaze anyone). If I take into account anything Evatrice says, mentioning a chess term is more appropiate for Kyrie.
All this, is taking into accout all subjective POV's. This is almost meaningless.

>>4186247
> In EP1 he saw Beatrice step out of the portrait
No, in Episode 1 he saw "Beatrice" standing in front of the portrait.

But anyway, I had a nice little theory typed up showing Evatrice really was the culprit, but then my computer crashed as I was typing and I lost it all. In short, though: Evatrice really was a second personality of Eva, and every time we see Eva-Beatrice doing something on the gameboard it's Evatrice having taken control of Eva's body.

Didn't Rosa bring the tea that they drink before dinner, though?

>>4186302
>so she could've been shot by either one of the three in the guest house or Eva
I meant he, Nanjo. sorry.

>>4186310
>multiple personalities
I really hope this doesn't turn out to be true..

>>4186310
>DID again

>>4186374
Who's that german soldier?

Look at this carefully, beyond the initial Jessitrice thing it could lead to.
Battler says: "Let's say that Jessica had another, witch-like personality, which took the name of someone other than Jessica and killed Doctor Nanjo."

Eva evades it by saying that the body of Jessica couldn't have done this but the interesting thing is what she says between the 2 red:
"No matter what kind of personality she was possessed by, murder could not be carried out with her body"

Just by this statement, she is implicitly agreeing that the whole "personality hijack give you another name" could work.
ShKanontrice, can't stop finding clues about it.

>>4186247
Like you say, EP2 was third person narration. EP1 I can't seem to find the part where Beato steps out of the portrait. Natsuhi sees golden butterflies, then the rest of the gang finds her corpse, and Battler grabs her gun. Maria yells Beatrice's name, and Battler turns around to find Maria running at Beatrice.

I'll agree with you that Eva didn't kill Hideyoshi or George. Judging from her bitching during EP3 ???? and EP4 it seems she has no motive to do so. My guess is that Kyrie killed Hideyoshi. It's a three-way murder of sorts: Hideyoshi blasts Rudolf and Kyrie, but because the stomach wound isn't lethal she manages to shoot him in the chest before she dies.

George I don't know about. My guess is that he got killed by whoever killed Nanjo, because he saw something that he really shouldn't have. Obviously, Shannon comes to mind, but he might have just walked into the killer roaming around in the mansion.

>>4186383
I think the whole Shannon Kanon thing seems rather obvious after Ep 6.

>>4186383
I think you're reading too much into this. What other way did EVAtrice have of saying that there were no murders committed with Jessica's body? "Jessica didn't commit murder" is susceptible to the DID trick. This, on the other hand, seems to me a perfect, clear-cut way of saying that between Nanjo and Jessica, neither of them willingly or unwillingly caused Nanjo's death.

>>4186393
She could have said something like "ANOTHER PERSONALITY? ARE YOU JOKING MORON? WHAT SORT OF SHITTY STORY DO YOU THINK THIS IS?"

But she didn't, rather she completely avoided it by rambling about Jessica's body.

>>4186383
and again, I'm telling you that that's pointing to Jessica being Beatrice, since i's easier denying that Jessica didn't have aanother persoality that the roundabaout way of even if she has one, her body didn't do it, i mean, it was easier, thn why not do it

>>4186401
Like how Lambda mocks the notion of a Rokkenjima brain parasites syndrome.

>>4186403
That's pointing to the DID thing in general, idiot.

>check /jp/ for Umineko theories
>see Shkannon DID Meido
>zetsubou

>>4186422
They are talking about ShKanontrice even more in the Japanese boards.
You have nowhere to hide.

>>4186431
I understand and I respect that opinion. It does still leave me in despair that it all comes down to a triple personality DID meido as the most popular answer to all the mysteries.

Would be rather anti-climactic for me.

>>4186438
If Shkanontrice is true, two of three individuals are going to be SOL on the gameboard. And if George and Jessica know about the situation already, they'll likely do everything they can to keep the personality they're each in love with, which would mean somehow destroying or getting rid of the other personality/-ties.

Wait a minute...

FFFFFFFFFF

>>4186384
Continuing on this train of thought:

Who killed Nanjo?
Let's make a list of all the people on Rokkenjima. Pic related. Everyone marked with an X could not have murdered Nanjo:

- Eva, Battler and Jessica are innocent.
- Nanjo did not commit suicide.
- The servants are stated to be dead at the beginning of the episode.
- Maria and Rosa are stated to be dead at the beginning of the episode.
- Rudolf and Hideyoshi both got shot in lethal places. Their deaths do not require a confirmation. If Hideyoshi lived, you would have to explain who killed him afterwards.
- Kinzo. Duh.

This leaves us with George, Krauss, Natsuhi and Kyrie. Personally, I think Kyrie is unlikely. Stomach wounds aren't instantly lethal, but you can't survive for hours without medical attention with them either. (If you say Nanjo secretly patched her up after the 'corpses' of RH&K, then why did she die after killing Nanjo?)

Personally, I suspect either Krauss or Natsuhi, possibly both. They both got stabbed in non-lethal places, whereas George took it head-on. Besides, if George is the culprit, then that means that his wound was fake, meaning that someone else would have killed George after he murdered Nanjo. That seems unlikely to me: Jessica had no motivation to kill him, because she couldn't identify him, Battler didn't know he was a murderer and Eva wouldn't kill her own son.

>>4186468
Can't remember, did Battler see Krauss and Natsuhi's corpses?

>>4186468
> then why did she die after killing Nanjo?
Eva sees Kyrie, who she thought was dead, stumbling down the hallway. Cue "OH SHIT IT'S A ZOMBIE" moment, Eva shoots her, Battler freaks out and accuses her of being the culprit, Eva freaks out again, thinking she might actually be the culprit, says the stuff to Battler, and shoots him. (Or rather, we think she shot him. If it turns out that Battler = Amakusa, then she may not have shot him, or she may have shot him in a non-lethal spot.)

>>4186477
I think only Jessica did. Brb, I'll get some caps.

>>4186482
Good point. It's stretching it a bit, in my opinion, but it's definitely possible. Just for curiousity's sake, who do you think committed the murders if Eva didn't do it?

>>4186461
Let us look at some of the implications of Shkannontrice, alright?

As servants who were employed at the island, we can postulate that Shannon and Kanon weren't alien to everyone. And, truly, it is proven that everyone but Battler has met Kanon before, and everyone has met Shannon.

If the two are the same person, this has a few implications:
1) Everyone on the island was oblivious. This means that Kumasawa, Gohda, Genji, Jessica, Krauss and Natsuhi either did not know or for some reason thought that a DID meido was no cause for concern at the time deaths happen and the meido's corpse is found while her alternate personality still hangs around.

Although Natsuhi can be excused, I find it somewhat difficult to swallow no one else'd mention anything about it.

2) We were given a wrong premises to start with. Although the same could be said for Kinzo, his presence was almost negligible save for ep4. Introducing Shannon and Kanon as two different people is deceptive at best and downright misleading at worst. Given that it is Ryukishi, I could somewhat handwaive this one, but it is not a satisfying resolution.

3) Shkannon's habit of changing clothes. Why... would that person do that? To pretend there are multiple people? As said before, quite a number of people'd need to be aware of it.

The implications raise questions I find difficult to answer appropriately at this time, as I find others' speculations to possible answers to the Shkannon mysteries hard to swallow.

I cannot discount the theory. I cannot deny it. And I respect those who are of the belief Shkannon is right.

But I, personally, hope from the bottom of my heart that the resolution I am hoping for does not turn out to be Shkannontrice.

Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa knows, see the Ronove, Virgilia, Gaap connection.

>>4186499
Even if Shannon and Kanon are the same person, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are the culprit.

>>4186499
> Shkannon's habit of changing clothes. Why... would that person do that? To pretend there are multiple people?
You're thinking of it in the wrong sense. Even if Shkanontrice is the case, _each personality is its own individual_. And they specifically want to keep themselves separate from each other. It's natural that each personality would want to dress in a different way.

>>4186510
they have to

>>4186490
>>4186477
Battler, Nanjo, Eva and Jessica did.

I'm finding it odd that Jessica removed the stakes, but I'm probably reading too much into it.

>>4186522
"Maria always delivers letters from 'Beatrice' to the family. Therefore she is a culprit."

Just like Maria, they could be accomplices, possibly unwilling ones.

How do you explain them tripping balls and seeing golden butterflies?

>>4186510
I considered that point of view as well. However, the questions it summons are equally dissatisfying.

If Shkannon wasn't part of the murder scheme, then why would they never raise a problem with a corpse of Shannon being in the shed? There is no reason for them to hide this if they are not the culprit nor affiliated with the culprit.

It should rather inform Shkannon of the possible identity of the culprit, being someone who must know of their differing existences and who had the resources and possibility to sneak a fake Shannon corpse on the island in episode1.

>>4186526
Well then Krauss and Natsuhi are really dead.
Battler looked at the corpses closely, being the detective he can't be fooled by someone playing dead if he does.

>>4186526
> she had gone to look in the arbor next
Now wait just a goddamn minute... FUCKING MOON-CHAN

>>4186538
>battler is incompetent

>>4186541
Jessica did it?

>>4186542
As detective for the first four Episodes, Battler had detective's authority and thus is not allowed to provide the readers with improper clues. While we may not necessarily know if the corpse is that of the person in question, Battler's judgment of their life-or-death status can be trusted.

>>4186526
lookin' kinda suspicious there, Jessica

>>4186534
Well. I can't really see any way of the 16 person limit being resolved except for Shannon and Kanon being the same person. Of course, we don't have all the facts yet, so while some things may seem strange now, they may make sense later.

Nanjo = Gaap is one of the craziest ideas I've ever seen.

>>4186490
Oh, well if Jessica saw the bodies, we can tru... wait, FUCK!

WHO SAID THE CULPRIT WAS A PERSON ?
TEATRICE STANDS

>>4186541
>>4186490
Fucking Moon-chan!

>1) Everyone on the island was oblivious. This means that Kumasawa, Gohda, Genji, Jessica, Krauss and Natsuhi either did not know or for some reason thought that a DID meido was no cause for concern at the time deaths happen and the meido's corpse is found while her alternate personality still hangs around.

I can't say I'm partial to Shkanon, but suffice to say that it's possible for the inhabitants of the mansion to either not know or care. Jessica knows and doesn't care. As noted by >>4186506 Kumasawa, Nanjo and Genji know and don't care. Gohda is a dick. He doesn't care about 'them' enough to find out about their secret. If Natsuhi doesn't know because she, too, doesn't give enough of a fuck about the 'two' of them, then Krauss is just too damn stupid to find out. Besides, wasn't it stated at the beginning of EP1 that they communicate most with Gohda, because the winged servants were Kinzo's spies? Granted, Kinzo's dead, so they probably wouldn't be spying any more, but that doesn't make them best buddies all of a sudden.

>>4186558
Equally so, I don't have all the information yet either. That is why I cannot disprove Shkannon. That is also why Shkannon theories leave me in despair, because they make a wholly unattractive resolution sound like the only possible solution.

>>4186562

I have no idea how people can deny witches then explain the murders with something even more supernatural.

>>4186576
Kinzo, Shannon, and Genji help keep Kinzo's secret with Natsuhi and Krauss. I'm sure they communicate a decent amount.

>>4186566
Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board </font>

I know Natsuhi is not the culprit but i still don't trust her, but i'm gunning for George & Hideyoshi for the mastermind spots.

>>4186574
Yeah. God damn her, god damn her to hell.
OH BAW MOM DEAD BAW IM SO UPSET NOW DON'T MIND ME I'M JUST GOING TO INSTANTLY REMOVE THESE STAKES

>>4186608

What are their motives though? Why would they go so far even as decided to kill Shannon and Eva?

>>4186601
>Kinzo, Shannon, and Genji
That should be Kanon not Kinzo, sorry.

>>4186608
But Battler is apparently either directly or indirectly the cause of these murders. So why would George and Hideyoshi be the culprits?

>>4186532

...Hinamizawa syndrome? I jest. I think it's either the witch's illusion or a lie. Some parts are just blatant bullshit: Natsuhi seeing Beato materialize out of thin air in EP1 is obviously fake. On the other hand, the servants who went apeshit after finding what should be a dead Kanon knocking on their door is a little harder to explain.

>>4186562
I beg to differ. Looking at it this way, it kind of makes sense:
- Gaap has to be one of the people on the island. There is no previously unknown asshole X we didn't know about yet who is the real-life equivalent of Gaap.
- Gaap is made up by Beatrice. Just like magical butler Ronove and magical teacher Vergilia, there has to be someone she could have known that is represented by Gaap.
- Gaap can make bodies disappear. A guy who has the authority to declare who is dead and who is alive can do that by creating false corpses.

Of course, there's still another possibility...

>>4186624
Well, Moon-theorist here, do recall that chaos has a funny way of providing opportunities to assholes.

Wait, does this mean that Shkannon was gaining two payments for the service of one person?

I suspect that the Ushiromiyas are evading taxes here! Who cares about murder? If there is one thing that the government will never let go unpunished is tax evasion!

>>4186626
>dead Kanon knocking
Could've very simply not happened. Or the story may have been embellished.

Who needs alternate personas when you can just be a lying sociopath?

>>4186616
Yeah, I'm having trouble believing that as well. Dunno, just trying to think of a way for it to be possible without the problem of Shkanon not being noticed beforehand.

>>4186650
Goddamnit. Why is she such a lying bitch?

>>4186672
She wishes to be the tsurupettan girl

>>4186672
You gonna get burnt.

>>4186672
My guess is that she's trying to stir shit up to make Kanon look less suspicious by comparison.

>>4186646
God, I hate this scene. Everything I think of sounds totally unreasonable. Even something like Shkanon only explains the story about Kanon showing up, but that still leaves you with two unexplained corpses.

>>4186606
Tea is not made by humans ?

>>4186684
See, her true face is something far more frightening that a demon who burns people using hellfire.

So far, we know she's lied to people, putting on a facade, but we don't know WHY.

She has no need for money.
She has no need for power.
Why the hell is she doing this?!

So what exactly is "magic", a code word maybe?

>>4186688
Then the culprit is not the tea, but the human who used the tea.

>>4186699
Magic is a "gentle lie" in Umineko.

>>4186699
Magic is 'embellishment'. Basically, it's taking an event and not seeking out the 'harsh truth' on purpose. So, instead of saying that you blamed breaking a vase on a cat, you 'reconstruct it with magic and have it act out its fate later'.

>>4186697
She's doing it because she is a troll.
The mere mention of her name causes people to foam at the mouth.

>>4186705
You fools. This tea was made, and is best enjoyed by FELLOW MONSTERS

>>4186686
Ok, well we know for a fact, in that scene they say something fantastical happened (like Kanon disappearing after being touched with the spider web.) so we already know that the witnesses are lying somewhat about what happened.

>>4186705

>>4186719
can't wait for ep 7

>>4186724
Yes. What I meant with Shkanon is that they could have made that story up to cover for Kanon's corpse 'disappearing' - after all, there's only one physical Shkanon, and with Shannon still walking around it might hint to samefaggotry. Genji cares about them, he wouldn't have told the truth. Let's say Nanjo and Kumasawa are in on it too, why would they have to die, and why would Gohda keep up the lie as well?

>>4186729
Gohda - Magical Chef, Poison Master, Rose Killer

>>4186699
A crutch of sorts I guess. By believing the power of magic would bring George and her together, Shannon may have gotten the extra boost of confidence needed to engage in a relationship or what have you.

Already bracing for Ryu07's introduction of Van Dine's rules in the next game

>>4186740
Remember the way Gohda acted during that scene.
Personally I think he got scared and didn't see anything but Genji managed to manipulate him saying something like:
"If you don't agree with our story, the others will think you are suspicious".
And to better manipulate him, they gave him a good "role" in their version of what happened.

>>4186717
As a mysteryfag, I'm loving the shit out of her. Agatha had a few villains like her, in which they were written so well that you passed them off as an idiotic, but well meaning, victim, and then only looking back do you see blatant deception.

>>4186740 again
Forgot to say that I can understand why Nanjo had to die. My guess on Nanjo is that he's an accomplice in each game he participates in, creating false corpses for the real culprit. Maybe he got promised a fat wad of cash if he helped out the killer, didn't he need money for his sick grandchild or something? He gets killed to shut him up before he starts running his mouth, fearing for his life. So you kill Kumasawa as well, because she doesn't take to kindly to you killing Nanjo. Why does Gohda cooperate with this? Is he being threatened? It's a possibility, but it sounds too contrived.

>>4186756
That's another possibility.

>>4186754
He would have to alter the crap out of it (much like he did with Knox). While Knox focuses on keeping out deus ex machinae, Dine actually has rules for not putting in clichéd crap as well. For example, there's a rule against cigarette butts being used as major clues.

penis

>>4186774
Yeah, and also, more to the point, the detective can't have a love interest.

But Dine rules are god.

Just a quick question here. Probably been answered but i wanted to know.. is the revelation ange of the future has in the boat guys futon shop seeing sakutarou plushies? And that's how she's able to *revive* him in the golden land for maria? If so, Rosa is so totally getting her mother of the year all years award sooooooo removed.

>>4186803
Yea they were Sakutarou dolls. I think you can make it out better in the anime.

>>4186790
True. Dine rules are much better than Knox. Granted, they do limit creativity a bit more, but I don't know whether that's a bad thing per se. Some of the stunts R07 pulls are a bit off the hook.

>>4186803
Yes, Ange's revelation in the boat house is finding Sakutarou, which is how she revives him. I always considered it a hint about how 'magic' is really just a 'gentle lie' of sorts. Apparently, the anime even threw out the entire mystery aspect and just showed a pile of Sakutarou dolls lined up before Ange.

>>4186760
Hercule Poirot would see through her bullshit in a second. God, why can't we have a REAL detective in this game?

>>4185870
Greetings. Kindly stop spamming, harassing and generally attacking www. anon
talk
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>>4186825
Because detectives in novels often have unrealistic deducing abilities....

>>4186841
Nah, Poirot isn't a dude like Holmes, in which he shakes your hand and realises that you cut your finger in the second grade by running 1.34 seconds too fast.

He's a dude who sees contradictions, and lies. He's a people person.

>this thread

>>4186841
What's that, you say? Their stomachs were torn open? My, this sounds like they were killed by best mom!

One of the reasons episode two is harder than episode one is that Rosa has lost touch with reality even more than Natsuhi has.

What happened to her? It seems like she has it together towards the beginning of the episode. Then she starts seeing Kanon and Shannon as two separate bodies. Then she starts saying she met Kinzo. By the end of the episode she's fleeing from demons.

Natsuhi is actually extremely level headed compared to Rosa and Eva.

>>4186875
Oh crap, this sort of pattern means that land of the golden witch was planned to be Kyrie as the last grownup standing with a gun!

PUBLISH THAT SHIT

>>4186875
what happened? she's a culprit that's what happened. she got everything right until the end where she realized there was a bomb in the mansion. in the end she wanted to save a gold piece and was blasted to bits with maria.
reality ain't as beautiful as magic, eh?

How does ShKanontrice and its variants explain the letter in ep1 and the paycheck to the servants?

>>4186875
I'm pretty damn fucking sure it's all just Genji&Rosa team. Mostly because it explains stuff like this and why she is NEVER suspicious of Genji, even after when he came back to report three people are dead, the missing bodies from before appeared out of nowhere and he just can't hel being the only other person left.

I'd also like to note the huge bundle of keys lying befire the church in E4.

>>4186875
Met Kinzo? Fucking really, I need to review all episodes.
Also Genji is in deep, at least in the first two episodes.
I can't conclude anything else.

Rosa vomited just by looking the bodies.
I don't think she was the culprit.

>>4186946
If we take Erika's word for third-rate mysteries, Rosa being suspect one, Umineko's down the drain.
But thanks to this: >>4186875
and red text mentioning Kinzo is dead, you cannot deny she's in deep.
Also, Rosa appears to be quite clever, judging her from EP3. She solved the epitaph as well.

Wait, in what context does Jessica lie, and who to?

The only part where I can think of her lying is during Legend, after she comes back with Nanjo and says that Kanon passed away.

>>4186989
Oh boy. You are in for a shocker, buddy.

>>4186981
I don't take Erika's word. 10 Little Indians, the culprit was pretty obvious from early on, yet I doubt most people would consider it 3rd rate.

>>4186946
The culprit, perhaps not. But she definitley has something to do with, well, something. Her lying in Turn just proved, saying that she personally met with Kinzo and all that.

>>4186981
Adding to this, if we consider Rosa as the culprit, she knew about Jessica's compulsive lying and hidden knowledge.
She had a reason to kill her, and then turn on ShKannon.

>>4186993
I'm curious. Is there some easymodo thread where this whole sociopath liar thing started?

>>4187029
Carrying a brass knuckle to school, and having a histrionic personality kinda keys me in to her sociopathy.

>>4186994
Protip: If young Manon was the portrait's character, that's enough foreshadowing for Knox.

I can't believe someone remembered the teatrice, it makes me smile..

However I suspected Genji from the first episode. I will say Rosa + Genji too.
Still, I can't explain well the Maria Letter at the end of Ep. 1.
Also, it says that Maria couldn't be found and was identified by some pieces of body. Could they be a fake? If so Rosa and Maria could have escaped like they were gong to do in ep 2

Concerning episode 3's Nanjo murder again, I think we can rule out George as well. Doesn't episode 6 state that Battler can accurately confirm the life / death status of a person? When Battler looks at George, it's his assessment that changes George's status to dead, not Nanjo which comes after.

So, who killed Nanjo? Kyrie is unlikely, but possible. Krauss and Natsuhi? More suspicious. Regardless, I'll have to subscribe to the 'whoever is alive post Nanjo gets shot by Eva' theory myself.

>>4186824
>>4186790
Speaking of Dine.

>>4187045
But I thought Manon wasn't on the island? Or Renon, for that matter. What do we actually know about either of them, anyway?

Manon is a lazy whore who skims over her work, and only cleans where she shows people would check. And, that's it.

>>4187051
I'm going to wait for the translation on that one. After all Nanjo helped George escape out the window.

>>4187058
Wasn't it Eva who let him out?

Episode 2:
Kanon served poisoned food, opening their bellies with a knife. Or maybe small bombs.
Later, at Jessica's room, he/she was to hug and drop her on the bed when he/she had an sudden identity crysis and stabbed Jessica on the back.
When Rosa takes the master keys and the servants go to the kitchen, they all discuss how the plan is to be carried from now, and Shannon decides to use the Kanon persona as a way to detract the attention from the true murderer. (her) She kills Nanjo and Kumasawa before they can do anything against her. Gohda is terrified.
Back at the chapel, George is willing to help Shannon to carry the murders so they can go live together somewhere. Gohda runs until the Natsuhi's room, where he's killed around the door. Next thing she's doing is seducting George so she can kill him too when he's careless.
Genji appears and sees the mess. He decides to finish everything using Shannon as the last sacrifice and throws a dagger at her head.
Genji proceeds to show Battler and Rosa the bodies and when the bomb is to be detonated, he calls Battler to tell the truth to him, as they won't survive the explosion anyway.

>>4187051
is this post nanjo's death or before? battler saw shannon's corpse...

>>4187051
Battler saw Kyrie, Krauss and Natsuhi closely and confirmed them as corpses.

>>4187057
That's Ronon.

We never know who Manon is and the name was first mentioned in E5.

Well, Manon von Arras(or how was she named in the original) is a 'woman ideal' of about the same degree as Dante's Beatrice(except that Manon is continually revealed to be a stupid bitch, but she is a woman archetype nevertheless).

You shorten "Maria" to "Manon".

>>4187081
Human Beato, I waited for you. ;_;

>>4187074
Before. This is episode 3, mind you. Shannon and Kanon are confirmed to be dead at the starting point of the episode, along with the rest of the servants (and Kinzo). Shkanon is irrelevant for EP3.

>>4187075
He sees something he assumes to be their corpses and has Nanjo proclaim a verdict. >>4186526 is pretty ambiguous, if you ask me.

>>4187099
It's not ambiguous if Battler looked at the corpses closely, and he did.
That's one of the "power" of the detective, he can't be wrong about it.

>>4187081
Both Manon and Ronon are mentioned in EP1, I believe, when Battler explains the -on names.

>>4187107
Where does it say he looked at them closely?

>>4187099
>>Before. This is episode 3, mind you. Shannon and Kanon are confirmed to be dead at the starting point of the episode, along with the rest of the servants (and Kinzo). Shkanon is irrelevant for EP3.

Not ShKanontrice though.

>>4186989
Oh, tons of times.
First off, every episode she lies about Kinzo being alive. She is also lying about Shkanon, if you believe in that. For more specifics, her actions in episode 3, pretending to talk to Krauss in episode 4, and finally lying to Battler after she "died" and got better in episode 4.

>>4187112
Ah, nevermind, I see it now. Dunno if that constitutes closely, but if it does, then we have ourselves a killer for Nanjo.

>>4187112
Nanjo "come take a look at this".

>>4187115
What do you mean by that?

>>4187138
Shannon and Kanon can "die" but the Beatrice persona can still be running around.

>>4187117
it could be that her parents lied to her about kinzo being alive. it's not like she must have seen the inside of the study at some time prior to the meeting.

>>4187141
oh how convenient. so everyone could have a beatrice personality and most deaths not seen by battler would be meaningless. that just completely ruins everything.

>>4187143
She might've known from Shannon.

Episode 6 states that when a detective says "this is a corpse" then this is really a corpse.
He can't be mislead by people playing dead.

>>4187141
True. So, Nanjo was either killed by DID meido or Kyrie. Now that you mention it, it could explain Jessica meeting with Kanon. Even if the persona is dead, the voice could still be faked, right?

>>4187148
Go on easymodo and read about the ShKanontrice theory, seriously.

Meta-Beato wants Battler to find the truth by himself.
At the first she just hated everyone and wanted to be the witch forever.
So when she met Battler again, her resolve was shaked.
Kanon=Shannon is part of Beato's heart.
Battler could not reveal it to Erika or he'd lose the game. Erika failed to realize the obvious because 1. she was not there for the first four games, 2. she was sleeping through the whole duel scenes.

>>4187152
Kyrie couldn't have killed him, Battler identified her as a corpse earlier.

>>4187143
No, she specifically says she met him. Really, saying he's alive is one thing, but meeting him? Nah, she'd have to know.

>>4187162
Shannon/Kanon could have told her and manipulated her into continuing with the lie.
Like "I wouldn't be able to work here anymore if Kinzo is found to be dead" or something.

>>4187152
Of course.
Also would explain why George jumped from the second floor of the guest house.

>>4187143
Nah, she says she meets with him.
Also, just from a plot point of view, you are assuming that Krauss and Natsuhi can play weekend at Bernie's for over a year?

lol, sure.

>>4187169
You're grasping here, buddy.
Even if that is true(which it wouldn't be, Jessica's the goddamn heir apparent), it still doesn't explain her lies to Battler on the phone.

>>4186875
>implying she's not lying

>>4187193
>>it still doesn't explain her lies to Battler on the phone.
Threatened.
Also what does being the heir mean when your family has no money?

>>4187184
jessica is a child scared of kinzo, and she goes to school most of the time. so why not?
unless she said she met kinzo in person...which I don't recall.

Clues supporting Kyrie as the culprit of episode 3:

# she claimed that they should not leave the guesthouse
# [And yet, she herself] suggested that they leave the guesthouse to get food
# the reason she changed her mind was not told to anyone, nor was it written down
# Until the last instant before she died, Kyrie preserved her pattern of behavior which states 'not going to get food=not going to the mansion'
# Kyrie did not leave anything written down

Reason? She was probably attacked by Shannon during the first twilight and defeated her, stealing the stake shooter. If both Eva and Rosa managed to solve the epitaph, maybe Kyrie was able to do that too.

>>4187215
Kyrie died in the shoot out with Hideyoshi.
Some culprit she is.

>>4187213
Nah, she says sees him, tells everyone how he has been, heck, she even comes up with an excuse as to why he isn't coming to dinner.
Oh, and she says that she wishes he would stay in his study forever.

The obvious flaw here is that if she honestly thought he was alive, she wouldn't say or wish for him to stay in his study, he is already dead.

>>4187240
Never confirmed.

I don't think that Jessica ever mentioned meeting with Kinzo. And, throughout the whole series, a conversation between the two has never been shown, but I suppose that means fuck all.

>>4187249
Battler saw her corpse, confirmed.

>>4187254
But that doesn't mean anything. She could've easily 'died', but then regained some sort of consciousness later, still on the verge of death.

>>4187254
and Battler saw Shannon's corpse, tehrfore that BODY is confirmed dead, not just the personality, but also th body, if you hadn't count it

>>4187269
No, detective power as stated in episode 6, he can't be wrong about the state of a body.

>>4187269
ShKanontrice theory involves a fake body for Shannon.
Otherwise the first muders of the first game would be unexplainable.

did battler see either shanon or kanon's corpse in ep3 first twilight?

>>4187253
Well, to be fair, having a conversation with Kinzo is not generally an indication of, y'know, sanity.

>>4187266
See, these kind of arguments are product of retarded theories.
No. No fucking 'die'. Dead. That's it.

>>4187278
Are you meaning that a 'detective' would misidentify a person, sorry but that CAN'T happen, Battler clearly saw Shannon dead, also fake bodies are forbidden, Beato didn't specify for just ep1, so we can assume tehre are no fake bodies or doubles for all games

If >>4187151 is true, then >>4187141 is countered by >>4187051 . That's Shannon's corpse, right there. Y'know what that means, guys?
Here are people excluded from Nanjo's murder:

Kinzo. Proclaimed in gold.
Nanjo. Proclaimed in red.
Gohda, Kumasawa and Genji. Proclaimed in red.
Shkanon(trice). Proclaimed in red, then confirmed by the detective.
Maria and Rosa. Proclaimed in red.
Kyrie, Rudolf and Hideyoshi. Confirmed by the detective.
Natsuhi and Krauss. Confirmed by the detective.
George. Confirmed by the detective.
Jessica. Proclaimed in red.
Battler. Proclaimed in red.
Eva. Proclaimed in red.

Everyone. Of the above listed characters, no one could have murdered Nanjo. They were either dead by the detective's rights, or they were dead by the red. UOOOOOOOOOOO

Guess I must have made a mistake somewhere. Any ideas?

Was it said in Ep5 exactly where Kinzo's body was being stored? If it was the mansion, someone moved him along with the victims, plus the only sensible place inside the mansion would be the study, in which case just about anyone could have found and moved him if they got a key. Outside the mansion is just the storehouse, chapel or Kuwadorian, which is more limited.

I'm wondering why nobody stuffs him in the boiler in Ep2. The implication is that someone who dies early in Ep2 normally does the burning. Only Natsuhi, Krauss, Jessica (maybe) and the servants should know where the body is, and it's the only game where both Natsuhi and Krauss die first. Jessica dies early too, and it's the only time she does in 1-4 if her death in 4 was initially faked (that call to Battler was extremely suspicious and he doesn't see her corpse until the end of the game).

>>4187282
No. The siblings are barred from seeing the six corpses from the first twilight by the adults after waking up. However: see >>4187253. When Battler finds George's corpse, he finds Shannon's corpse there as well.

>>4187309
The only thing as Battler can't misidentify is the state of the body, not the identity.

Also fake body has never been invalidated by any red, only time it was brought was for the unidentified bodies of episode 1 and 4 (Shannon's body was seemingly identified so the red text didn't work on her) and the bodies of episode 5.

>>4187326
I thought about a number of places, but none are really that likely. It would have to be a place that keeps his body somewhat fresh, and be available at a moment's notice. That odd tunnel in Kuwadorian would have been useful, considering it's (supposedly) right under the dining room. But I'm sure the smell of a rotting corpse would eventually waft up. Keeping him in Kuwadorian itself is too far away. The study is a nice thought, considering the smell of all of this 'medicine'/absinthe is so strong that it would mask the smell of, you know, a decaying corpse.

>>4187326
Yeah. She still manages to mess up Krauss and Natsuhi's body, though. What a bitch.

>>4187337
I might be stretching it a bit here, but:

Knox 10th: It is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues!

>>4187365
A corpse isn't a character.

>>4187326
Could be because Jessica usually handles the whole burning Kinzo's body deal. But she's too busy being, uh, dead to do it in episode 2.

>>4187383
That would make sense if she burned the body. I'm just going on the whole fists-of-hellfire thing, though.

>>4187370
Then tell me this: whose corpse was it that was disguised as Shannon's? It would need at least comparable format. Of the female corpses, only Kumasawa was available. Surely Nanjo, Eva, Jessica and Battler wouldn't collectively mistake a dressed-up mackerel for Shannon?

>>4187042
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder
> There also tends to be a heavy correlation with this disorder and bisexuality.
> bisexuality
Oh shi—

>>4187370
then jessica was alive in ep2
She was the culprit using Rosa

HELP ME /jp/ I'VE TURNED MYSELF INTO A POKEMON

>>4187415
You'll be fine.

>>4187404
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

>>4187415
Don't worry. Some girl will save your incompetent ass, as usual.

>>4187402
Some corpse that they brought on the island just before the 2 days.
See episode 1 in the shed.
There's a body there, identified by Nanjo as Shannon.
Kanon was there too, if ShKanon is true then THERE IS to be a fake body.

>>4187428
Did anyone besides Hideyoshi, Kanon, and possibly Nanjo actually see the body that they were claiming was Shannon? The anime made it seem like Shannon's arm was visible, but from what I remember in the sound novels, Battler never gets a clear view of any of her body, and Hideyoshi does tell them to back off... And when you consider that the shed is locked up immediately after, it's possible that there was no actual body there to begin with, possibly just some stuff arranged so that it would seem like a body from outside the shed.

>>4187440
Would be too dangerous.
And Battler did state that there was definitely another body there.
And I don't see why Hideyoshi would lie, barring all the retarded and without any foreshadowing theories about him being one of the culprit.

Also R07 supervised the anime

>>4185870
Greetings. Kindly stop spamming, harassing and generally attacking www. anon
talk
. com, please. We don't want you there. We never did. Understood? PS: If you want these messages to stop, simply stop fucking with us, remove all lying troll articles about AT and kill the illegal clones. Then you will never be bothered again. Every single time we see the slightest attack or spam on our site (which can be reasonably expected to origin here or any related "chan"), you will get 1442 more of these messages as a result. It's really up to you. This is a promise that WILL be kept up indefinitely if need be. Seriously.

Yours sincerely, an anonymous AnT and general well-doer of the Internet as a whole.

>>4185870
Greetings. Kindly stop spamming, harassing and generally attacking www. anon
talk
. com, please. We don't want you there. We never did. Understood? PS: If you want these messages to stop, simply stop fucking with us, remove all lying troll articles about AT and kill the illegal clones. Then you will never be bothered again. Every single time we see the slightest attack or spam on our site (which can be reasonably expected to origin here or any related "chan"), you will get 44 more of these messages as a result. It's really up to you. This is a promise that WILL be kept up indefinitely if need be. Seriously.

Yours sincerely, an anonymous AnT and general well-doer of the Internet as a whole.

>>4187428
This would mean that Shkanontrice disguised as Kanon and put up a fake corpse in Shanon's place. However: Kanon's corpse was placed in the chapel. To preserve the crime scene, the door to the chapel was locked! Kanon was locked inside and his key was taken from him! The red truth from episode two will keep him locked up in there!

# It is impossible to unlock the lock to the chapel without the chapel's key
# When the door to the chapel is locked, it prevents any and all methods of entry or exit

>>4187453
> And I don't see why Hideyoshi would lie
Because the culprit had convinced him to cooperate, for whatever reason. Perhaps because Hideyoshi would have similar feelings about George marrying Shannon as Eva does?

>>4187453
Yeah, this. Not everyone who sees a body is lying about, y'know.

>>4187477
Never stated it was really locked though

>>4187477
I don't think a body double was used for any of the later Episodes, but if one was indeed used in Episode 1, then it was probably more along the lines of a mannequin or something, a life-size doll.

...On the other hand, there's that body double trick that Takano used in all Chapters of Higurashi...

>>4187506
> ...On the other hand, there's that body double trick that Takano used in all Chapters of Higurashi...
I still don't get how Takano pulled that off. Didn't the police identify the corpse via dental records?

>>4187484
Yeah, Moon-chan has 18 as her base charisma stat, and she took diplomacy perks.
Can't really blame Hideyoshi for assisting her.

It's a real corpse, probably killed with a bullet in the head.
The reason why the murders are so gruesome is to mask the fact that this corpse died this way.
Basically hide the tree in the forest.

>>4187513
Yamainu, secret organizations, etc. They could probably swap out the records for Takano with records for whoever was used in Takano's place.

>>4187506
My point is that EP1's body double only provides the necessary evidence for one misidentified corpse. Anything else would violate Knox's 8th. As such, we assume that it's Shannon's corpse that is fake, so that Battler is fooled when he finds George's corpse. The fake corpse is a necessity for Shkanon regardless of George, because the adults who discovered the first twilight would have had to been outrun by Shkanon in order two make them witness both a Shannon and a Kanon corpse in succession. If we accept the Shannon corpse as a fake from EP1, then the real Shkanontrice has to have posed as Kanon's corpse. Nanjo would have covered it up or something. Kanon is still locked inside the chapel, unless...

>>4187501 is true. Give me a second. I think Beatrice proclaims all the rooms in the first twilight are locked. I'll have to look that up.

>>4187519
And the fact that Higurashi didn't have any constraints to it.
He could pull whatever he wanted from his ass.


Oh, and on another note, Jessica is getting up on my culprit list. If Shkanon is behind all these murders, then someone has got to be behind Shkanon.

>>4187615
Well, hate to tell you this, but Jessica?
She's just another persona of Shannon.

>>4187580
>>4187501
Gotcha. The closed rooms from the first twilight in EP3 were most definitely locked! It's stated in red by Beatrice during EP4's Tea Party!

# The individual keys were found inside envelopes alongside the corpses!
# In short, all keys related to the linked closed rooms were locked inside the linked closed rooms!!

Kanon was most definitely locked inside the chapel, together with his body. Regardless of whether he was dead or not, he was unable to kill Nanjo!

>>4187700
Did the adults re-lock all the doors after they'd checked the rooms?

>>4187714
Yes, although this is not stated in red. The adults closed the rooms to preserve the crime scenes.

>>4187714
They broke a window to get into Shannon's room. They can't re-lock that.

>>4187788
True. However, Shannon's room is irrelevant. Only by opening the chapel can Shkanontrice be let out. Shannon was a fake corpse according to the 'Shkannontrice killed Nanjo' theory.

Well if the fake body can be used for Shannon, it can also be used for Kanon.
What if ShKanon used the fake body for Kanon in the chapel and just faked death as Shannon.

Then she took a key from one of the adult who died later, picked the body in the chapel, put Shannon's clothes on it and put it in the room.
Then she baited George by showing herself as Shannon from afar, making him jump from the second floor of the guest house.

He obviously runs to see Shannon's body to confirm her death, he sees the body, go to hug it and is killed from behind by ShKanon.

>>4187895
I'm pretty sure George was killed from the front.

>>4187898
Yeah same thing.

>>4187895
This was what I was thinking about as well. Granted, I don't think I can deny it for now, but it is a very contrived theory.

Oh god, I just started playing Dragon-Age. Did the dwarf noble quest chain, and I was thinking, "Y'know, Jessica may be suspicious, but she's nice, sometimes people are exactly what they seem. Like take my dwarf younger brother, he's such a good guy!"

And then he set me up. The bastard set me up.
So, moral of the story: Never trust nice people. EVAR.

>>4187901
>>4187898
Doesn't matter. Shkannontrice could have stabbed him from the front and put him in a hugging position.

Fake bodies can't be used at all. Body double tricks were denied in red.

>>4187987
For episode 1. Not for episode 3.

>>4187987
No it wasn't.
Also you are late.

>>4188006

Just like "No one would mistake Kinzo on sight"?

That also applied to Ep 5 and by extension all games. Therefore, no body double tricks exist for any game, not just Ep 3

>>4188007

Yes it was.

>>4187895
If you're still around, let me ask you: who killed the three servants and is Shkanon's accomplice? Shkanon can't have done the first twilight by him/herself because of the way the locks work. You'd have to finish with the boiler room to make the circular closed room work and still sneak a murderer in because the closed room has a back door we all know about, bypassing Knox. However, Shkanon didn't finish with the boiler room, (s)he finished with the chapel. So, who did the murders and knew about Shkanon faking his/her death?

>>4188054
> So, who did the murders and knew about Shkanon faking his/her death?
FUCKING MOON-CHAN

>>4188060
NO I FUCKING HATE MOON-CHAN
HERE, HAVE SOME RED
# Ushiromiya Moon-chan has not committed murder

>>4188054
Simple, the murderer didn't end with the chapel, it was a simple trick.

>>4188024
It wasn't, when it was denied it was always very specific.

>>4188102
By murderer, do you mean Shkannon or someone else?

>>4188107
ShKanon.

>>4188115
Ok. What simple trick do you have in mind? Because Shkannon has to put the only key to the chapel in someone else's room, and still lock him/herself up in that same chapel. How did they lock the chapel without the key? There were no duplicates, the door was locked, and the chapel cannot be entered or left without a key

>>4188139
Oh, and just for clarity's sake:

# Only one key to the chapel exists
# It is impossible to unlock the lock to the chapel without the chapel's key

Admittedly, these are both from EP2, but we have no clues to suspect that this has changed, so I'm guessing Knox's 8th forbids duplicates.

>>4188139
The chapel was closed with the fake body inside.
ShKanon completed the closed room circle with the boiler room at the end and went back to the room where Shannon "die" by the windows.

Not hard.

>>4188162
And then Krauss or Natsuhi or Kyrie shoot both George and Shkanon(trice) later.

>>4188183
Can't do that when they are dead.

>>4188193
Does Battler actually examine Krauss and Natsuhi himself, or does he just look at them and let Nanjo examine them? Because Jessica acts a bit suspicious in that scene.

>>4188162
Eh, my bad, was thinking of having Kanon be the fake death and Shannon the fake corpse. It's the other way around. You're right.

>>4188183
No, because if you do that, then Nanjo's murder is impossible. As it stands, Shkannontrice is the only one able of committing that murder. Like I said before, there's probably something wrong with my reasoning (I'm thinking Kyrie, Rudolf or Hideyoshi didn't get confirmed by Battler, but I'll look that up tomorrow) but unless you can prove that Battler didn't confirm someone's corpse, Shkannontrice is the only solution for Nanjo's murder.

>>4188204
He looks at them closely, they can't be faking it.

>>4188162
>>4188214 again here
A simpler question: how did Shannon inflict a non-lethal wound on herself? What weapon was used, where did it go, etc.?

>>4188280
What?
It was just a fake injury, not hard to make, especially with a doctor as accomplice.

>>4188214
The question still remains, then. How the hell did Shkanon get a body that looked identical to them? I mean, it's not like it would necessarily be impossible, but we aren't talking Takano and her pack of Yamainu here. I'd almost find that to be more of a stretch than the whole DID thing.

>>4188214
Considering Kyrie's TIP specifically mentions how stomach wounds usually aren't immediately fatal, I still think it's most likely to be Kyrie.

>>4188337
Maybe there were originally two servants and one died very recently? I dunno, I'm not too big on the Shkannontrice lore, so to speak. Could be the other servants look like them as well so they killed one of those. Maybe it's the kid from 19 years back? I have no idea.

Partially unrelated - you've been warned.
What I find interesting about many theories is that people try to accommodate the situation after it has happened, instead of viewing a scenario that could happen as the events of the story unfold.
For example, in EP1 and 3 there is a reason for Shannon to fake her death and show it. EP2 has no practical reason to do an elaborate show on her death.
Some theories here speculate how could character X do stunt Y without having a reasonable why dunnit.
And yes, I know this makes the mystery harder for many things, but unless you plan on saying "I wouldn't put it past R07", some theories just sound outright senseless, regardless on how factible it is to create such a scenario.

>>4188348
These are the scenes related to the gang finding the three corpses. Judging by the reactions, I suppose you can say that Battler confirmed that both his parents are dead. It is, however, pretty suspicious that Ronove refuses to answer Battler's request. It's not like he didn't hand out red before, although it was pretty redundant red back then.

>>4188398
You have a point. To give you my perspective, the reason I try to deduce crimes back from the murders and try to construct a 'why' from there (if I try my hand at something like that at all) is because speculating about a possible scenario that might fit the murders is... well, just that: speculative. Also, I firmly believe that the either the murders are solvable by deducing back from what you were granted after the fact or that this is, at its core, a 'well' disguised fantasy novel. Most mystery novels have the 'why' added at the end, during the murderer's confession. At the risk of sounding pretentious, I suppose it's that 'trust' between reader and writer that R07 keeps talking about. So, either I'll end up with a deduction that leads me to crap like Shkannontrice (please, no), something better than Shkannontrice or I'll end up in a dead end, where I accept the witch. R07 did say that with EP5 (mainly Knox) added all episodes should be solvable. To me, EP3 seems the easiest, because you have the main 'who', a part of the 'why', and between EP2-5's red, quite a bit of the 'how'.

>Moon chan can't be the culprit because she's too boring or uninteresting!


Yeah keep telling yourself that.

>>4188904
That's the thing, though. She SEEMS boring, but when you actually examine her actions in the various Episodes, alarms should start going off in your brain.

>>4188904
Well she's not THAT boring...her fight in ep 6 was pretty interesting

>>4188953
Yeah, it fits perfectly that she fucked up George with a gun in EP4.