/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Even if Umineko is shit and anything is real, Will is still the sexiest.

Stop switching the subject lines. It upsets my filter.

Does /jp/ remember the good times?

Bern just appeared and the game is starting, really interesting.
Good farewells from everyone during Ange's quizes too.

What are the new music?

Pretty much the only thing I care about now.

>>6729773

It's pointless having a mystery where you can't check your answers. Because there is always some level of ambiguity. Plus he could easily slip in closed rooms that have no solution.

This only works with interpretations, like you could leave the precise nature of the Meta world up to interpretation, that'd make sense. Make it's all fiction, maybe it's the realest real there is.

Umineko didn't do this, instead it left the actual mystery up for interpretation. But there should be no interpretation, there is a right and wrong answer. I hate this kind of bullshit. Everyone is not a winner. It's like when homeopaths come along and suggest their science is equally valid.

Umineko is not a real mystery for this reason.

>>6729833
They were mentioned two threads ago and the authors too.
Two vocals, one new DotG, one new by zts (you can find it in youtube), a couple by dai, a couple by xaki and two more

What about Umineko Tsubasa?is it released yet?

>>6729833
http://www.mediafire.com/?dnoso3h8v1ixcf5

>>6729849

>New DoTG

Nice. I missed it.

>>6729858
released but no torrentans.

I hate all this "We all knew the Meta world wasn't real" bullshit. Since fucking when? We knew "magic" wasn't real, but we assumed the Voyager witches, Meta Beato etc. existed on some level for the games to be even possible. Battler only denied the existence of magic, in the end, for the events of the game. Plus, we had holdovers from Higurashi where we "Know" voyager witch type magic exists, or else Rika wouldn't have been able to talk like an adult and remember what happened to her in other kakera.

R07 managed to not only cheapen Umineko but Higurashi too.

R07 gave us an ending that would have even the staunchest skeptic wishing magic existed.

>>6729883
where are the spoilers, at least?

>>6729895
>Since fucking when?
Episode 3. Episode 4 really drove the point home. Chiru was basically fluff after that.

THIS DOESN'T FUCKING EXPLAIN WHY THE MESSAGE BOTTLES WERE SIGNED AS "MARIA USHIROMIYA"

>>6729895

Since Fiction.

>>6729900
http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/TIPS

>>6729895

Wouldn't it make more sense in some ways if the Ange suicide was on denying magic? Since if you think about it, the Battler'd end is the ultimate denial of all magic, and anything meta.

It really does reek of Bern trolling.

>>6729914
Yasu likes to fuck around.

Battler is just a senile old man. This shit doesn't need to make sense.

>>6729895
Well, I for one thought all the meta-world stuff didn't exist at all.

I didn't think it was all someone's delusion, more like a backdrop for the actual games themselves and a representation of our own journey for finding the truth. As well as containing some hints for what happened in the real world.

The ending seems good enough for me. Tragic and real. Lots of things are left for us to figure out though, but in the end they're clearly just optional.

>>6729915

There was never any real evidence the meta world was "fiction". A lot of people misinterpreted exactly what it was Auau was doing when she claimed to have "written" those games. The problem with Umineko is the sense of time is fucked up. The smoking room itself takes place in another Kakera(I believe the number is given at some stage) where time might not even be the same, actually I'm pretty sure it isn't.

Just because Hachijo "comments" on the meta events doesn't mean they didn't really happen. Back then, we also saw Bernkastel coming to her and talking about the game. What was the point in that exactly? The Ep.6 cliffhanger was pretty much there to give you the feeling that meta was real after all and there was a grander conspiracy going on here.

I think most people believed at least Bern and Lambda were real, because we have "proof" of their existence from Higurashi.

But apparently Higurashi was all just bullshit too, and a fictional story within the Umineko world. It's insulting to those of us who became even a little emotionally invested in these stories.

>>6729944
He's not senile, just in case that isn't hyperbole. He's what, 42? About the same age Kinzo was in his backstory, really.

>>6729895
The whole idea was that magic didn't really exist in Uminekoverse outside of the hearts of those who believe in it. By that logic, of course meta world wasn't real.

>>6729895
>We knew "magic" wasn't real, but we assumed the Voyager witches
>We knew
>we assumed
>We

Oh! You are one yet many?

I have to say, if someone had told me years ago that this pic would end up becoming the real ending I would have just laughed.

I like to think of the meta-world as Battler going over the previous episodes and talking to AuAu about it. He ends up writing episode 6 after he discovers the truth and then Ange shows up.

>>6729858
What is Tsubasa anyway?

>>6729973
All extra TIPS in VN form. Should be nice.

>>6729976

Not really, since none of it fucking matters. The TIPS are almost entirely Meta stuff, it was commercial suicide for him to give 8 such a shitty ending, though since he released it at the same time he might just get away with it.

Do you think that episode 8 can really become an author killer for Ryukishi?
Just curious.

The people crying about how none of it matters if it's fiction are hilarious.

Way to ignore the themes of Umineko entirely.

>>6729963

But it was always implied some of the meta characters existed on a deeper level than that. After all neither Lambda nor Bern had any vessel on Rokkenjima.

So, here's a list.

THOSE WHO HAD IT COMIN'.
Krauss (Idiot)
Natsuhi (Murderer)
George (Asshole)
Kyrie (Culprit-san)
Rudolf (Kyrie's bitch)
Rosa (...do I even have to say it? BEST MOM)
Yasu

THOSE WHO DIDN'T HAVE IT COMIN'
Maria
Jessica
Gohda
Hideyoshi

THOSE WHO MEH.
Kumasawa (Yasu's helper)
Genji (Yasu's helper)
Nanjo (Yasu's helper)
Kinzo (Died before the start)

THOSE WHO SURVIVED.
Eva
Battler

>>6729998
Bern is a cat and Lamda is a cake.

Deal with it.

>>6729993
I don't think so.

>>6729994
I understand your point, but I think you're missing theirs.

>>6729998
>But it was always implied

You misspelled "I always assumed." Nothing of the sort was ever implied.

>>6729985
That's not going to make me stop enjoying the characters.

Damn nigga, think of it this way. They're fictional within a fictional universe. Your waifu is fictional and superior to 3D.

The meta characters are super fictional, and thus superior to regular fictional characters.

Stop being so goddamn butthurt about it being fiction when we've been saying it for a while now.

>>6729999
>Krauss (Idiot)
Perhaps that was a bit too much of punishment for being an idiot.

>>6729994

You keep saying this and it doesn't make you any less retarded.

What is the theme you are talking about? As long as you believe in it, it exists for you? But by refusing to even acknowledge things like Shkanon, Amakusa, etc. he's saying it doesn't really matter in general.

So, how many people bitching here have actually read the episode/the ending?

>>6730015
Well, and hiding Kinzo's death, BUT WHO'S COUNTING THAT?

The problem with the meta verse not actually existing is that NOTHING WE SEE ACTUALLY HAPPENS.

What was the point in the mystery then?

Ok, I'm confused about one thing:

If Yasu escaped with with Battler, then what about the witch who got shot. What happened with that? Did she survive or something?

>>6730009
The point is that they don't agree with the themes, pretty much. They should just accept that they are not compatible with Umineko and move on.

>>6730017
>refusing to even acknowledge things like Shkanon, Amakusa, etc

What?

>>6729999
>Rosa (...do I even have to say it? BEST MOM)

But how much of that is real? And Rosa probably died because she was either trying to protect Maria or avenge her death.

>>6730027
>If Yasu escaped with with Battler, then what about the witch who got shot. What happened with that? Did she survive or something?
Try to recall the amazing number of people Kyrie managed to kill with her gun.

OKay, let's do anything with any fucking mystery novel, it doesn't matter, it's fiction after all! Let's have fun, anon! I want to put a witch in a novel from ellery queen so badly!

>>6730025
Are you talking about episode 7's tea party? That was fiction.

>>6730027
Are you talking about episode 7's tea party? That was fiction.

>>6730027
What Bern shows us at the end of ep7 differs a bit from what actually happens.

>>6730029
I don't think most people are speaking about the themes, and that's why I said you're missing their point. What most people seem to be complaining and calling meaningless is the mystery side. All the theorising, debates and the like expecting to solve a mystery novel were rendered useless (or so, they feel) when the novel took another turn.

>>6730033
Well, Episode 1 and 2 were written by Yasu, and clearly Rosa still beat the hell out of Maria in those...though not to Episode 4's AWESOME extent.

This is so depressing. Umineko felt like it was heading towards a great finale, and now we get an ending akin to those Garfield comics where Garfield is a figment of John's imagination.

So then what was the point?

What I dislike is how Hachijou/Ikuko suddenly received a huge role in the story in the epilogue. Yes, it was hinted that she was a mastermind that was influencing many of the events in the story, yes we are told that she "wrote" some of the episodes, but those are just factoids. Despite billing it as a mystery, Ryukishi ended up writing a character-centric drama, there's no denying it, with all this heart, without love it can't be seen, etc. If Ikuko had such a pivotal role in the entire story, she should've had a closer position to Battler within the story as well.

... and while writing this, I realized something. As one of the biggest theme Ryukishi is hammering into us, "without love, it cannot be seen", it stands to reason that Battler's partner in exploring his lost memories would be a romantic partner as well. If so, Ikuko got WAAAAY too little screentime for Battler's second love.

Fuck the story, we need a new sprite rip now.

DAT LOLI ANGE

>>6730063
That I agree with. I'm talking about the people going "THE CHARACTERS DON'T EXIST SO THEY DON'T MATTER NOTHING MATTERED." Pretty sure I said that from the start.

>>6729962

42? If he's 18 in 1986, that makes him 30 in 1998.

>>6730013

When you are reading a story and becoming involved in it, your level of suspension and disbelief only applies to the frame of the story. You are taking "that world" seriously as you read it. Any fictions within are just ignored because they are fallacies as far as the book you are reading are concerned. You are not reading the book for them.

Fiction is the suggestion of something existing. Fiction within Fiction is the suggestion of something not existing, because your "argument" that is the fiction, is saying so.

If you look at it similar to the idea of a novel being a love letter from the author to reader(which comes from guess what, Umineko), then it is trying to communicate something. Umineko could have communicated the idea that Bernkastel and Lambda exist "somewhere"(even if they don't really).

However, it instead ends up contending that they don't exist, and don't matter to anyone.

One other theme Umineko brings up is that magic begins to have "effect" the more people believe in it. It's true to an extent. Fictional characters may not be real in the conventional sense, but some are believed in so much they become a social convention, and despite not "existing", affect how people think and feel. Characters and concepts like "James Bond" almost become like modern day gods. The posing a guy does in front of the mirror when he wears his first Tux? That's because of James Bond. Even though James Bond doesn't exist, so he shouldn't bother.

If James Bond was a fiction within a fiction, do you think people would bother?

Not to mention it's an old dirty and lazy trick.

>>6730080
There seems to be some division about whether ???? is supposed to be taking place on 1998 or present day.

>>6730071
>If so, Ikuko got WAAAAY too little screentime for Battler's second love.

No relationship whatsoever was hinted between them, though.

enough of this shit.

I will now procede to become an hero by facepalming myself to death.

goodbye /jp/.

>>6730071

In that case, here's hoping the translation points out one way or another if Hachijou/Ikuko is really Shannon/Yasu.

If all the deaths were solely due to Kyrie and Rudolf then why would Shannon/Yasu try to kill herself afterward? Doesn't it make more sense if it was Battler that tried to commit suicide and he had to be saved?

And whatever happened to the gold?

And here I was hoping magic was real.

>mfw I knew this shit would happen and am completely fine with it

>>6730097
>If all the deaths were solely due to Kyrie and Rudolf then why would Shannon/Yasu try to kill herself afterward?
Everything happened because of her. She set up everything.

>>6730097
Stop looking for resolution in a puzzlebook.

So, there's absolutely no chance of a third ending?

Ryukishi did a shitty work trying to point that everything, real or not, had a meaning, really.
The themes were too weak on that regard. Sona nyl did this a lot better, thanks to theme-hammering.

>>6730110
No.

Ryuukishi is just proving without a doubt that 3dpd.

>>6730117

>>6730117
but he PROMISED a happy ending! Amnesia and suicide end aren´t happy at at all ;___;

I love this ending. It's quite possibly the worst possible thing he could have gone with and Ryu had the balls to actually do it.

i wonder if Ryukishi is happy now

>>6730090
This is how I think of it. Love drives the story. "Without love, it cannot be seen" is a major theme in the story. Characters are supposed to discover the truth only after a epiphany through love (at least, this is what Ryukishi wants us to believe). Ikuko was supposedly the most important person in discovering the truth about Battler's past next to Battler himself. To have her relationship with Battler be without love would clash with her position as his co-explorer of the truth. Hence, romance (although, I SUPPOSE platonic love would work as well).

>>6730124
He said it would be bittersweet.
Of course, we have to search for the "sweet" part...

>>6730106
No. Stop thinking with ep7.

>>6730128

Well hey, now people will be extra leery towards him and his next When They Cry work with possible loss of readership and income as a result of this tweest.

Congradurations, i guess.

>>6730124
>but he PROMISED a happy ending! Amnesia and suicide end aren´t happy at at all ;___;

No, no he did not.

>>6730142

I'm sorry, did I say "loss"? I meant "reduction"

>>6730133
hahaha BattlerBeatofags are mad that Ikuko and Battler are couple.

I mad too actually.

>>6730140
Even in the ep 8 version, it still happens because of her.
Just not in the same way as in ep 7.

>>6730118
>>Ryuukishi is just proving without a doubt that 3dpd.

I'm not new here at all, but I have no idea about what 3DPD means...

>>6730139
If this is his idea of a bittersweet ending it's 80% cocoa.

I suppose this is irrelevant to the current discussion at hand, but...

I was REALLY hoping for 16-year old Rika to show up and slap Bern's shit for being such an ass.

>>6730139

To say that the EP8 ending is "bittersweet" is... kind of a stretch, really. It's pretty fucking depressing. I wasn't expecting everyone to live, but I /was/ expecting something that was at least semi-hopeful.

>>6730156
DON'T YOU GET IT IT'S HAPPY BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE BESIDES THE USHIROMIYAS ARE ALIVE. AND EVENTUALLY THE USHIROMIYAS WILL GET OUT OF THE TANG FILLED MESS AND JOIN EVERYBODY DANCING AROUND THE CORPSES OF GIANT ROBOTS~

I think what you have to realise is that when people complain about the meta characters not existing, what they mean is they don't matter. The excuse that it's all fiction anyway doesn't fly, because some fiction is still presented as mattering.

Being fiction within fiction, it's already highly implied they don't matter. All that time spent developing characters that ultimately make pretty much no difference to the story, and none at all to the ending.

When the ending confirms the meta doesn't exist AT ALL. Those characters no longer matter. They make absolutely no difference whatsoever. They're developed and discarded - something which ALWAYS annoys people with any series.

Similarly, it doesn't bother dealing with a lot of the mysteries. They DON'T MATTER. The only mystery is the nature of Umineko itself, which we got almost no clues for(just Hachijo in Ep6 really).

Why solve a mystery that has no answer? What's the point? Sure there are some things that are meant to be eternally mysterious, but a mystery novel that's practically presented as a logic puzzle? Sorry, but no. It's a cop out. It seems it's universally agreed people would rather be told they're wrong and try to figure out why than spend an eternity wondering if their answer really was right.

Leaving things up to interpretation is for shit like the Meta world, not for the solution to a logic problem.

People feel similarly pissed about Amakusa, even though he may well have existed - he doesn't matter.

Lambda's dead? Doesn't exist bro. Therefore, it doesn't matter.

Episode 8 seemed to be packed with awesome Meta-stuff so it's the most offensive place to put it.

If you're going to spend that much time developing it, and filling it with the most interesting characters, then please don't tell us it doesn't matter.

>>6730175
Stop compating it to EVA
EVA had a straightforward ending with all its themes exposed and everything about the several subplots (angels and shit) solved.
Umineko went full baka an d the end is kinda a cop out.

>>6730156
>>6730168
Hey... Battler remembers the truth and who he is!... yeah...

>>6730168
>Comic #2

This makes me realize that the Shannon-Kanon-Beatrice interactions in ep. 2 would've been absolutely hilarious if they were depicted as DID at the time.

>>6730190
>>
Similarly, it doesn't bother dealing with a lot of the mysteries. They DON'T MATTER. The only mystery is the nature of Umineko itself, which we got almost no clues for(just Hachijo in Ep6 really).


"HAI GUISE I'M RYUKISHI THE MYSTERY IS SOLVABLE FROM EP4 YEAH REALLY BELIEVE ME LOOOL"

I'm guessing that the Ushiromiyas were so horrible that their deaths made the world a better place.

And so let's wait for the saikoroshi -hen of umineko rei.
Maybe it'll have Ikuko as MC and will use her perspective to redeem this a bit.

<-Me at this whole thread.

So is EP8 is the final episode? If so, am I to understand, going by the comments thus far, the series doesn't even really have an ending worth calling as such?

>>6730206
But people have been saying it was Battler's delusions since EP1.

Indeed, it was solvable as early as episode 1.

I'm pretty on the fence right now. The fiction-within-fiction kind of disappoints me. I totally understand what Ryukishi was going for, but it really does make me feel that half of it was pointless. If they could've at least left the meta up to interpretation if it was real (on some level) or not I might be more okay with things.

Really though, these are just my impressions from spoilers. My opinion might really improve if I actually read it, or it might sink even lower. I can't tell at this point. I think this goes for everyone here who hasn't read it as well.

I guess the Battler=Kinzo fags are slightly satisfied in the sense that Battler at the end seems to be just becoming another Kinzo.

>>6730219

There will be an Umineko Rei as well.

Higurashi Rei lasted 3 chapters.

>>6730219
It has , it does have a pretty nice closure.
just heavily rage worthy fo the fans and that could be classified as 'literary suicide'.

Urgh, honestly, I need a new favourite thing ever.

Are there any cool fictions about witches and stuff where THE CHARACTERS ACTUALLY EXIST?

Someone fucking translate Forest.

>>6730219
>If so, am I to understand, going by the comments thus far, the series doesn't even really have an ending worth calling as such?

Actually, there is one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YyVpNKA7vs

See if you can understand the dialogue.

Okay, so like both endings are basically Battler's delusion?

>>6730219
>So is EP8 is the final episode? If so, am I to understand, going by the comments thus far, the series doesn't even really have an ending worth calling as such?
Imagine a holodeck ending in a sci-fi story.

>>6730223

No, because people weren't saying it based on anything but a guess. There was no real evidence for it.

It's like saying you solved a really hard maths problem, when you guessed the number.

>>6730213
Hey, it's been surprisingly civil and people are being honest, I think. I've seen some good arguments for people's feelings regarding the game's ending.

>>6730235
Trancription for it

;　待ちくたびれたぞ、戦人ァ。@

;　……すまねぇ。@来るのが、遅れちまった。@

;　そなた、何故、車椅子なんぞ座っておるのか。@
;　ほら、手を貸してやるからシャンとせい。@

;　ベアトが歩み出て、……車椅子に座る戦人に、手を差し出す。@
;　戦人は、……その手をゆっくりと掴み、………ゆっくりと、……立ち上
がる……。@

;　………俺は、…………………。@

;　聞けっ。@ここにようやく、我らは全員が集ったぞっ。@
;　今宵、黄金郷はここに復活するっ。@

;　割れんばかりの拍手が、戦人を祝福する。@

;　そこには、みんないた。@
;　みんな、みんな、みんな。@

;　そしてベアトは戦人を抱き締める。@
;　強く強く、……二度と離さないように抱き締める。@

;　本当に、………よく帰ってきたな……。@

;　帰ってきたぜ。@遅くなったな。@

;　……もう、離さぬぞ。@

;　あぁ。@俺ももう、離さない。@

;　俺たちは、永遠に一緒だ。@

Battler never would have found the truth without the meta-world and the fictional stories. I don't understand why you guys say they were pointless in the end.

>>6730234
Read Shiei no Sona nyl, it's also a big point

>>6730234
Witches don't exist bro.

>>6730223
Yeah, by luck. but it was.
>>6730219
Ryu is already writing rei.

>>6730269
This is intersting. Is there also a ""dualism"" fantasy/reality?

The only good thing I can see is with Alchemist taking the helm again for the Umineko port, expect port only arcs, and endings.

Sure, we got Hanyuu as a fucking space alien for the Higurashi port, but this is pretty much rock bottom, so I can only see us going up when they make up some shit, right?

>>6730260
>I don't understand why you guys say they were pointless in the end
They were pointless as mysteries for us, the readers.
Umineko would have been better if Ryu had never started all of this anti-fantasy, mystery-obsessed attitude among the readers.

>>6730224
I think the fiction-within-fiction ended up feeling pointless because the "real Battler" was never shown giving a fuck about Bern, 34, Meta-Battler and their meta-friends. In a sense, real Battler and meta/piece Battler are different enough for the readers to treat them as separate people. Thus, despite all the shit that meta-Battler went through with his compadres, it feels pointless when real Battler is implied to simply have used them as a vehicle to recover his lost memory.

Hell, making Battler delusional probably would've been better option. If Battler had hallucinated the entire experience, that would've implied that real Battler and meta Battler were one and the same, and his interactions with the meta-crew actually had an effect on him in real life, then it would've given the fiction-within-fiction charactersr some significance in the overarching story.

>>6730260

Because we cared more about some of those characters than Battler's bad memory. The character development was a complete waste.

Why don't people(including R07) get that.

>>6730269
This is interesting. Is there also a ""dualism"" fantasy/reality?

So..seacats was all my, apparently autistic, husbando's fantasy he was writing?

RYUKISHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

>>6730259
>>6730235
Oh God....Episode 8 just became my favorite

>>6730260
They were pointless because he built them up, gave them like over half the goddamn roster of characters, and then they're trivial at the end.

There is a myriad of different ways Battler could have been helped to discover the truth, he didn't need to create this entire new world built on lies and bullshit.

Is there any reason why both endings can't take place in the same timeline? Since Battler still hasn't met with Ange couldn't she have committed suicide after reading his stories?

>>6730133
Any translatorfriends who could translate the few lines that appear in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YyVpNKA7vs

For what's worth, I'll translate the lyrics as soon as I can make out everything...

>>6730279
miotsukushi>matsuribayashi
Ryu agreed.

>>6730235
>>6730259

Oh fuck oh fuck ;__;

>>6730279
>Sure, we got Hanyuu as a fucking space alien for the Higurashi port, but this is pretty much rock bottom, so I can only see us going up when they make up some shit, right?

Wait, what?! I thought the only changes for the PS2 port was the 'everyone goes crazy at the same time' story and an ending where Hanyuu dies?

Any translatorfriends who could translate the few lines that appear in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YyVpNKA7vs

For what's worth, I'll translate the lyrics as soon as I can make out everything...

>>6730311
It also explains that Hanyuu was alien and that she brought the alien illness with her (explains the horns).
Her race was immune, I think

>>6730259
>>6730302

Translation please?

>>6730311
The DS port has extra arcs, and one of them is about Hanyuu's past when living in the village

Haven't you all figured it out yet? The moral of the story? It's simple, really.

...

Sometimes, people just need a good killin'.

>>6730325

; each of waiting, A Battler. @

; ... ... Sumanee. @ has come, gone behind. @

; thee, why, and shall find Nikki wheelchair sitting. @
; You know, I'll lend a hand Tosei Shan. @

; Beato walking out, people ... sitting in a wheelchair race, held out his hand. @
; Battler, ... grabbed his hand and slowly, slowly ... ... ... ... ... 立Chi上
Want .... @

, ... ... I ... ... ... ... ... ... .... @

;'ll listen. @ finally here, I'll gather all our will. @
; tonight, the Golden Land'll be back here. @

; the thunderous applause that game blessed man. @

; there, everyone was. @
; Everybody, everybody, everybody. @

; Beato war and hug people. @
; strongly, never let go ... to hug. @

; really ... well ... I came back .... @

;'ll come back. @ A slower. @

, ... ... again, I 離Sanu. @

; Yeah. @ already too and keep. @

; we are together forever it. @

>>6730311
The Hanyuu dies ending explains that she is an alien, rather than just a human with a freak point mutation that gave her horns, and made her revered as some kind of demi god. Alchemist made some pretty retard mode arcs for the Higu ports they did, but I now look forward to what they do with Umineko. They've shown they aren't afraid to do weird shit, so I expect some meta world ends.

Anyone mind summarizing how it ends in two or three sentences? I tried reading the past few threads but I'm not that into it and I couldn't follow anything.

>>6730334
A+ translation.

>>6730289
>>6730295
Magic and witches don't exist. That's what you get for falling in love with delusions.

>>6730340
I still prefer the mutation though.

So the whole 1998 'world peace' stuff in 6 was completely irrelevant?

It's interesting and somewhat amazing how one little detail (meta doesn't exist, even within the realm of a fiction story) that I become apathetic towards everything that happened. The characters just suddenly turn one dimensional...hollow, even.

It's quite depressing. In fact, after I read EP8 and Rei, I'm inclined to delete my Umineko pictures folder. I just could give less of a shit about any of the characters now.

It's like watching Luke Skywalker grieve over Owen/Beru blow up the Death Star, train with Yoda, confront his father, redeem him, celebrate on Endor, get wasted...

Everyone's hugging, crying, getting medals. You really adore these people-it brings tears to your eyes when they triumph....


...and then suddenly it's revealed that Obi-Wan was high on desert shrooms and the Empire still reigns supreme.

not the best analogy but the frustration is the same.

>>6730362
Well, given the fact that, after ep1, ALL of the story revolved around the meta-world, I would not call it "a little detail"...

Screw this trainwreck. Time for Umineko porn.

Bern eating out Lambda.

>>6730360

Yes.

Or expect some if you don't get it you're UNENLIGHTENED. Obviously, since it's all in Battler's head, world peace means peace in Battlers head, etc., bullshit bullshit

So does that mean EP7 is just amnesiac Battler writing a story about how he should of solved it already along with homolust?

>>6730259
I've waited for you, Battlerrr.

I'm sorry. I was a bit late at coming here.

Why are you sitting on a wheelchair?
Here, I'm giving you a hand, get yourself together.

As she was walking, she presented her hand to Battler who was sitting on the wheelchair.
Battler... slowly... gripped that hand, and... slowly... stood up.

I...

Listen... here, all of us have finally met again.
Tonight, the Golden Land revives here.

Without stopping, the clapping blessed Battler.

Everyone was there.
Everyone. Everyone. Everyone.

And then, Beato hugged Battler.
Stronger and stronger, as if never parting with him again, she hugged him.

You really... came back.

I'm back... late, though.

I... won't let you go again.

Indeed. I won't let you go away either.

We'll be together... forever.

This is my present for you fags. Happy New Year.

>>6730348
Oh I do too, just saying.

>>6730259
>俺たちは、永遠に一緒だ。

Kill me now.

>>6730368

Pretty much, I was holding out to prevent tainting how I saw characters but now I dont give a fuck.

>>6730368

All I see is a blank image. Is this some kind of Hanyu joke? I don;'t get it.

>>6730367
Hm. I guess you're right.

Shit, this makes me even more depressed.

>>6730368
you just killed me. congratulations.

>>6730368

>story revolves around delusions and lies
>surprised when meta-world is a delusion

>>6730375
>We'll be together... forever.

MY HEART

>>6730375
And then he woke up.

Could any of you faggots be more retarded? None of you have even read anything that could be considered a confirmed spoiler and you all are acting like the fucking world ended.

I was kinda upset about the "dream ending" at first but after reading BAAAAWWW EVERYTHING IS POINTLESS FOREVER I really hope it is true just so I can laugh at you dumbasses for acting like a bunch of drama queens. How the fuck do you people manage to live through life? I'm a goddamned NEET and even I'm not that pathetic.

If it is true and not just some mistranslation or non-R07 trolls or whatever. If that's the case, then I'm gonna be laughing all the way to the hypothetical bank. If not, I'll just laugh at the pathetic lowlives who were actually disturbed by this crap.

The overreactions were entertaining at first, now they've gotten sad. The EP7 thread was a lot better in that regard. The most disappointing thing about EP8 isn't the episode itself, it's the thread.

So, shkanon confirmed for bullshit? PLEASE?

>>6730402
Bitch more about it. It's not like your word is going to kick some sense (or not) into someone's head.

>>6730375
And a kind present it is. Thank you, anon.

I haven't read Umineko since episode 4. Could somebody give me at least a quick summary of the ending?

>>6730402

Fucking harsh dude. I do agree that people are overeacting over a couple of spoilers.

>>6730406
...shit doesn't matter, bro.

>>6730375
THE TEARS

THEY WON'T STOP

GODDAMNIT RYUUKISHI

and thank you so much, anon.

>>6730414
Nothing fun and interesting is real.

Can someone explain the context on the cake and cat thing? I've heard people saying stuff about it but not seen a single thing to confirm it.

>>6730402
Nobody cares. Go away and the emo continue.

>>6730402

Oh the irony

>>6730406

ShKanon is the answer to why the murders happened, Battler lied, people died.
Its just at the end we find out Battler survived the explosion but lost his memory. Through all of the games we've seen he finally remembered the truth.

At least thats what I'm getting out of all this bitching and crazy talk.

>>6730417

oh lol 2 episodes ago Shkanontrice was the heavy debate here now...people are acting dead.

>>6730168
That...That would have been the best end. Thats a magnificent end actually.

>>6730368
WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE INCLUDE A CAKE AND HIS CAT IN THE STORY AND WHY WOULD THE CAKE BE LESBIAN FOR THE CAT?

>>6730362
>I just could give less of a shit about any of the characters now.
>I could give less of a shit
Make up your mind.

>>6730422

Lambda's true form is a cake, Bern's true form is a cat

Not bullshitting

>>6730375
Happy new year, Anon!

>>6730375
What happening here?

I mean I kinda of get it but...what's the implication? loldeaddelusions? Something meta? Excuse me for being retarded, but someone explain, it's late and I've been screwed over one too many times to make sense of much right now.

>>6730375
ST ELSEWHERE ST ELSEWHERE EVERYWHERE

DID THEY AIR THIS SHIT IN JAPAN OR SOMETHING

>>6730442
Heaven is the Golden Land.

>>6730422
A single anon posted,
>[It's all a] delusion of Battler who try to put his memories together.
>Bernkastel is Hachijou's cat, Lambda is cake (seriously)
And it all went downhill from there. No proof or confirmation was provided.

>>6730434
Grammar shmammar, you know what I mean.

This game works fine on a 512mb ram pc with torrents blasting.

>>6730375
Why this have to be just a delusion? Fuck you, Ryuukishi07, fuck you.

>>6730436
Well i'm off to the nearest bakery and pet store.
Tonight is gonna be a busy.

>>6730436
What I'm asking is where and how is this revealed in the story?

>>6730442
Lambda's a cake, Bern's a cat, Battler delusioned up EVERYTHING IN THE FUCKING SERIES IN ALL THE EPISODES after he attempted to kill himself after surviving the island with Beato who offed herself. Then Hachijo finds Battler and takes care of him for like 20+ years.

That's it.

>>6730444
Oh, okay.

...is that implying the meta is real on some vague existential level, or something?

>>6730455
Feather and Lambda fight, Lambda gets turned into a cake.
Battler, Ange and Erika all raped Bern and she turned into a cat.

>>6730450
We don't know what it is, to be honest.
I guess that's up to you.

autistic_battler_in_wheelchair.jpg

>>6730368

what the fuck. Here's the REAL pic.

That cat's fur is obviously the wrong color.

>>6730462
No, just that he's probably dying and seeing things or something like that.

Meta world is all in his head.

>>6730371
>Without stopping, the clapping blessed Battler.

Congratulations, Shin--er, Battler.

>>6730464
Wait, so Erika was fighting on Battler's side?

What about Lambda? Whose side was she on?

>>6730375
I'm in genuine emotional pain right now. I think I might cry any second now.

Ryukishi, y u do dis?

how the fuck is this supposed to be bittersweet. I'm pretty sure I'll cry when I'll be sober and able to play the game.

>>6730425

I realize I'm being completely hypocritical. I really wouldn't have much of a problem with it if people actually read the damn shit. But that's not the case.

I just find it hilariously sad people are going on hating Umineko forever over some barely translated crap that may or may not make sense in context. If you're gonna delete all your Umineko porn forever because of this, fine, whatever. That's your call. At least do it after everything has been translated and understood so you don't look like a whiny dumbass like me.

>>6730475
Battler's side too.

You might not like Umineko's end.

But do you regret reading it? Do you regret reading it all?

You know what? I don't. I liked this 4-year long ride, and I wouldn't ask for my time back.

Remember when the meta-world was Purgatory?

>>6730470

Whos to say that? The storys are him trying to remember what happened. So who is to say the meta world isnt real? Why make up all that shit?

Personally I think the meta world is INCLUDED in his memories. I think its still possible he was there. And hes now writing down his experience but because so much went on it seems like multiple storys to him.

>>6730425
>>6730479
And another thing, irony is not hypocrisy.

>>6730482
Thank you very much for that. I completely agree.

>>6730482
I'm depressed about it all at the moment, but I don't regret any of it. Life is much too short to live with regrets from playing a really fucking long series of visual novels, after all.

Of course, I'm reserving my final judgment on the entire series after I read 8.

>>6730475
Eirika showed up at some point to save Battler's ass.
Lambda and Battler were BROS and Lambda's sacrifice against Feather is what allowed Battler to defeat Bern. Otherwise, Feather would've just saved Bern.

I remember the good times when Umineko was well thought-out and written.

Why did Lambda die? Why the fuck is she a cake? Fucking Fethearline, fucking Ryukishi! A cake? seriously? a fucking cake? At least keep her as a methapor for certainty rather than a goddamn cake

>>6730482
I don't. Mostly because I have more fun in the spoiler threads than I do reading the actual material.

Damn this became a massive trainwreck.

>>6730406
Doesn't matter. They never existed.

Lambdacake and Angeburger?

Also, Bern being a cat...yeah. I really don't mind, I'm a cat person.

>>6730482
You got a point there. It was one HELL of a ride, and it was fun. Remember the George hate, the Beato trolls, the FUCKING MOON-CHANS, and the WHICH ONE HAS THE PENIS'? Wasn't that great?

>>6730482
I haven't read it since Episode 4, bro. The community for this game is the absolute pits of pretentiousness and hyperbole, and I for one am laughing hard at their outrage over this shitty series finally collapsing under its own poor writing.

>>6730375
.......................................
T___________________T
Thank you anon.

>>6730506
A <super> <cute> cake!

>>6730506
Lambda was always a cake. Her 'torture' that she went through that she mentioned was just the baking of a cake.

Yeah, Battler is crazy.

>>6730516
thats what makes it all worth it to me.

That their expectations were so thoughtfully crushed with Sait Eslwhere ending.

>>6730492
I hope so. I hope he was in a fucking coma and went to Purgatory for a while, and shit happened. Then he work up and had to write that shit down.

This is my personal truth Ryukishi, fuck you, you can't take it away from me.

>>6730520
>Lambda was always a cake. Her 'torture' that she went through that she mentioned was just the baking of a cake.

>>6730500
So lambda was a good guy all along, as I thought ;_;
too bad for her... one of the best character of this novel, damn ;_____; Featherine is DEFINITELY a bitch. She deserves to suffer in Rei. I will not forgive Ryukishi if this is not the case.

>>6730515

Hey, remember the anime?

>>6730529

Of course.

>>6730529
No. There was an anime? :O

>>6730522
Actually, you got a point there. This has been the highest point of my "Enjoyment" for Umineshit, even higher than when I thought the series was barely acceptable back in Episode 4.

>>6730520
>Lambda was always a cake. Her 'torture' that she went through that she mentioned was just the baking of a cake.

That is some funny ass shit.

>>6730536
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVYDygoz3ao

>>6730523

Exactly. I think the whole "delusion" thing was thrown out there because we think its ALL in his head. But we dont know for sure (until we read it) that the meta world didnt exist. Its possible that it did but it all seems like a blur/dream to him.

>>6730506

Oh, you KNOW there's going to be crossovers with Portal now.

>>6730550
This is why I absolutely despise Umineko's fanbase. Portal came out in 2006, son. The meme... It's long dead. Please get over it.

>your face when you realize all that hatred over Bernkastel was pointless, because even in the fictional Umineko world, she didn't exist

>>6730539

Oh yes. And it was horrible.

The only good thing about it were the previews.

>>6730500
The best part is the Will and Dlanor team up to take on Feather. Feather then kicks their asses in every possible way.

Lambda then shows up to save the fucking day. She knows that Bern is going apeshit and the source for that is Feather and Lambda is set on killing the source. It's a huge and epic fight, Lambda looks to be winning until Feather basically pulls a "you are already dead", since she is not a witch but a god. Feather then gets away without so much as a scratch.

>>6730554
>Umineko is fiction

Ok there lets stop discusing and go home.

Seriosly you people are getting pathetic

>>6730553
I agree. I'm completely disgusted by the constant references to Portal we've had over the last day.

"Lol, they should do a crossover with arpeture science!"
"And then Bern was Glados."
"Of course Lambda died, the cake was a lie after all :PPPP"

>>6730560
Don't forget the OP and ED!

Hey guys, I am at this part. WTF am I supposed to do?

>>6730553
>the meme... It's long dead.
It wasn't even funny in the first place, either. It was just another LOL XD RANDOM thing. Those 13 year old types are obsessed with randumm stuff about pies and cakes, which is the only reason it took off in the first place.

>>6730568
PICK ALL OF THEM.

Anyone know why Battler's hair isn't red in his new sprite? Fucking Ryukishi...

>>6730573

Makes me glad I only discuss this with one other person usually.

>>6730574
I did that. The cake and the cat laughed at me.

>>6730583
Select Battler, Kyrie and Rudolf.

Even though the rules say the culprit has to have killed someone and Battler didn't kill anyone.

>>6730583
PICK BATTLER, RUDOLF, AND KYRIE.

>>6730562
Lambda's love for Bern was pure and true and she died like a true hero.

I think we should all have a moment of silence.

>>6730575
because battler thought he was asumu's son, not kyrie's

but in reality he is kyrie's therefore his hair is white, it has always been white

just throwin this out there

What kind of cake is Lambdadelta?

>>6730566


Bern being GLaDOS was around for a while.

>>6730554


>hatred

I love her. Still do, even if she isn't real in the universe, she's still real to me.

Oh, and yeah. Technically, she's real. She's a cat. I love cats. I still want to get a cat and name it Bern.

>>6730583
Well, in the end you were almost right. So fuck them.


Also, am I the only one depressed about lambda's """heroic sacrifice""?

I'm pretty sure things will be more clear in rei. How do you want to continue the story with the characters right now? If Ryukishi wants to, then there is some things we're missing ;_;

>>6730375
True end

>>6730599

Whats rei?

>>6730583
You can pick Kyrie , Rudolph and Battler Or you can try all the other choices and try to find the secret combination for the secret ending
Good luck

>>6730589
It was more like Battler had the cat (who had been making such a mess) in hand, and was about to put her outside, but Tohya wanted him to go easy on her. Battler used cake as a distraction for Tohya, and she was not able to take the cat away from him while she stuffed herself.

>>6730562
So are they dead in the game?

Way to god-mod yourself there, Ikuko.

>>6730573
And that's exactly why there will be no cake references in Portal 2.

>>6730599
A couple people in 2ch were saying they sort of had the feeling the meta story would continue, since Bern and Lambda were still dicking around, Erika and Dlanor are doing whatever, and Will and Lion are still on Operation Happy End, but who knows.

>>6730605
Isn't there no secret ending?
;_;

>>6730604
Aftermath of Umineko, coming in C80

I know it's silly because I haven't read the episode yet, but I still have this lump of unhappiness in my stomach.

I hope Witch Hunt finishes translating ASAP.

>>6730604
From animesuki (yeah, I know it's hated here. just deal with it.) from ryukishi's blog.
He doesn't want to "give up" umineko now. So he will continue with this "universe", just like rei with higurashi.

Well, rei will not be the name of umineko 3. but I don't have any other idea.

>>6730554
I used to hate Bern, thought she was a bitch. But I just can't bring myself to hate a cat. I mean, I love cats.

>>6730616
>Bern and Lambda
>Erika and Dlanor
>Will and Lion
Can someone explain to me what ANY of these people (except Dlanor) are still doing alive? I mean I'm happy because I like them, but...

>>6730636
Dunno about Bern and Lambda, but they're seeing hanging out and talking about meeting again somewhere else in what I think is the Tea Party, from the caps.

Battler and Beatrice just persuaded Bern to bring Erika back. Dlanor was fine.

Lambda saved Will and Lion from the end of EP7.

>>6730594

So why is Ange's hair red too? Once again, fucking ryukishi. That hair was awesome, how lame.

What does picking a slice of cake do in the game? I picked the top most one and Im not sure what happened.

>>6730634

You don't have to love all cats.

I love Bern. I also love cats. Therefore I love cat!Bern more than cats and Bern.

I love cake. I hate Lambda. I guess I would hate Lambdacake. Same goes with Angeburger.

>>6730631
>>6730628

I see. So its possible we will get a ending that will like? Or at least learn of something that will be a great deal.

True End.

>>6730678

YES

>>6730653
get out! Lamba is fucking bro. although a troll most, a fair bro.

>>6730678
Ange, do you want to continue living in this world?

>yes
>no

>>6730692

We could have gotten along if not for the fact that I'm directly competing with her over Bern. Nothing personal, I just hate her on general principle.

IF IT IS CONFIRMED THAT AMAKUSA DOESN'T EXIST
IMMA CRY

Is there a download of Umineko Tsubasa up yet or no? I know it's unrelated to this, but I still want to read all the little things.

So Battler ends up with a pretty shit life. Poor guy.

>>6730707
Get your eyeballs prepped.

how did she come back to the plot ?

>>6730730

Popularity, maybe?

>>6730728
Fuck real Battler. I don't even know the guy.

>>6730678
Yeah, Ougun is shaping up to be the real Umineko. Ridiculous fights and good ends everywhere.

Yasu gets over her crush before Battler does.

>>6730669
Possibly, if rei isn't a joke like in higurashi. but given how umineko is, I don't think so.

>>6730762

I still hold my theory about the entirety of the franchise and R07's intent.

In an interview (or notes, something) he mentioned that one of the things that BT wanted to do was to create a fighting game based around their works. R07 mentions that while it's sad that something like that happened, he's still happy about how everything turned out.

So, the theory is that R07 and in fact the entire team conspired to produce this visual novel for 4 years, as well as tie-in CD dramas, anime, manga, etc...to promote Ougon Musou Kyoku.

4 years of screwing with our heads and trolling his entire fanbase to promote the god damned fighting game.

>>6730786

sad that BT died*

>>6730786
At least a fighting game might be more bearable than Umineko's shitty writing.

>>6730800

I bet the fighting game has shitty writing in it, as well.

So far, the only one to actually make shitty writing work has been ZUN.

Maybe R07's going after the whole thing, and is attempting to dethrone ZUN.

Then again, I would really want to play an Umineko STG, so it can't be all bad.

Holy motherfucking shit.

Where does the new Dread of The Grave play? Battler must be doing something insanely badass.

>>6730818
link?

>>6730815
At least then I'd be playing a fighting game instead of a VN.

>>6730827

Here's a youtube link to a few of the episode 8 tracks, it should open to the new Dread, if it doesn't just scroll around a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/user/trollkastel?blend=2&ob=4#p/u/13/Y03OC80eDXc

>>6730827
>>6729867

At least this episode seems filled with Meta fights and nice music.

Can anyone spoil me as to what happens to the meta world characters before the big reveal?

>>6730851
Nothing. They're still off doing their own things.

Anyway, I find it funny that people are disregarding the Meta World characters (which they seem to love) in favor of "real world" Battler, who is really just a fucking new character at the end. I don't know him, I don't give a shit about him and his amnesia.

It goes both ways, I'm disregarding him and embracing the Meta World.

I fell asleep for a few hours, is Lamda still a cake?

>>6730900

In fact, this ties in with what he was always pushing in the story. Love and fantasy. Embellishments and beauty that don't really exist except in our wishes. By providing a completely mundane ending, this is his last ditch attempt to make his readers realize how beautiful things are even if they're not real.

Because seriously, who gives a shit about the real world by this point? Ryukishi's been trying his damnedest to hide everything and make people care about the characters in a supposed "mystery".

So yeah, I can understand why he did this, and as for me, he succeeded with it.

This thread is seriously hilarious, and I saw all this coming from a mile away. I'm so happy R07 has a hatedom now, it's wonderful. When they cry... is right now! HAHAHAHAA! *snort*

Anyone have a link to the 1st thread when the kanon/battler/shannon screenshot made landfall?

will anyone be livestreaming ep8 with shitty translations anytime soon?

Some day we will all look back on this and laugh.

(And I don't mean that in the "GLaDOs quote" kind of sense.)

>>6730562
Wait, so how did Lambda's sacrifice stop Feather from saving Bern?

>>6731007
...
This name...
Damn...
This name...
how the fuck.

I arrived late to the party, can I get a quick summary of the events of EP8?

>>6731109

It was all in battlers head.

>>6731109
everything when wrong, and you will cry when reading it...

More seriously, it is already done earlier in the thread, so enjoy...

>>6731121
Wat.
Are you trolling?

>>6731127

No joke, R07 is going to be this century's Anno.

>>6731132

Uh, some backstory on this "Anno", please?

>>6731109
Lambda sacrifices herself to save Bern.
Erika is back.
Battler has amnesia and is a culprit, along with Kyrie and Rudolf.
Lol, Shannon/Beatrice commits suicide.
Future Battler is the writer of Umineko series, along with Feather/Hachijou.

>>6731138
>is a culprit

Not really, isn't he just forced into things?

>>6731138
This was Ryukishi's "answer"?
Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious.

>>6731109

I've been taking notes across the threads and have gathered (making no claims about truth):

1. Yasu attempted to enact her plan (I imagine that's epitaph-solving + murder) but Kyrie and Rudolph beat her to the chase.
2. Kyrie/Rudolph opted to take the gold for themselves. They killed everyone and planned to put the gold on the submarine and leave. Bomb was armed to destroy the evidence.
3. Battler was sent to kill Shannon to prove his loyalty, but he warned her instead and faked her death.
4. Rosa confronts Kyrie + Rudolph, kills them but dies herself.
5. Shannon commits suicide.
6. Bomb blows up, Battler is safe elsewhere and loses his memory.
7. Yasu (Hachijo Tohya?) fabricates the stories of the witch killings to hide the truth from Ange.
8. Battler/Yasu write the stories together as they try and repair Battler's memory to find the truth of what really happened (above).

So I guess you could argue that the entire Meta-world really is all in Battler's head, and depicts his struggle to recall the truth of what happened on Rokkenjima.

Also evidently Lambda is a cake and Bern is a cat, but I didn't find anything about that on 2ch.

>>6731146

The answer wasn't really important.

At least, that was the agenda he was pushing near the end. Problem is he stated that this was a mystery, when he was trying to push for fantasy. I'm sure he has some retarded reason for doing it this way, but it backfired on him badly.

>>6731132
Don't say that.
He'll probably make "The End of Umineko" or "Rebuild of Umineko" if you say that.

>>6731161
Rebuild of Umineko: You Do (Not) Have Love?

>>6731137

Haha, whoops, now I get it. My face sure is red.

>>6731171
>>6731161

He'll add another witch to the pile and make George even more of a dick.

>>6731171
I'm partial to You Can (Not) Understand This Shit.

>>6731149
The legend of Rosa Musou continues.

>>6731196
Who else here wished she'd come back at least one more time before the end?

Even with this, I will still believe in my own theory if it fits OBJECTIVELY with everything after ep8. Laugh if you want, I don't care. but at least I am trying to solve this, unlike the creator who gave up his gameboard.

>>6731196

She killed two adults with guns.

By herself. Holy shit Rosa.

Also, can anyone spoil what happens to Eva and Ange? Is it basically 1998?

>>6731246
I think they survive, but they don't say much beyond that. In the "trick" ending, Ange commits suicide, but nothing is said in the "magic" ending.

>>6731246
Well, did she have a gun? Because if she somehow took them down without a gun, even though she died...

ROSA MUSOU WOULD LIVE ON FOREVER IN MY HEART.

I can't say i didn't expect this kind of ending. Still, i was half joking when i said this before, and i actually hoped something better. I'm still clinging to a bit of hope that people are overeacting and that everything will sound better when i read the episode myself, because right now, it's fucking new year and i'm almost crying...

>>6731138
>Lambda sacrifices herself to save Bern
FUCKING RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE

So, was the Bern crying screenshot real?

>> Lambda's sacrifice against Feather is what allowed Battler to defeat Bern. Otherwise, Feather would've just saved Bern.
>>Lambda sacrifices herself to save Bern
>>Feather and Lambda fight, Lambda gets turned into a cake.

Meh don't understand. Bern was with Auau. But Lambda was fighting for Bern. But Bern was about to be ""revived"" by Auau? And lambda was against this? What?

>>6731705
Show screen pretty please.

>>6731741

>>6731763
Been dying to know all day:

Real or not?

>>6731824
Fake. I checked the .nsa file myself, and there's no sprite of crying bern.