/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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In terms of materials — modern steels are far superior to the best metals used by Japanese sword smiths. What is not widely known however is that Solingen, Toledo and Damascus steel was every bit as good as the finest steel from Japan. Recent excavations in China have revealed extremely well -made swords that have retained their edge to this day. Some rare Viking swords were also fashioned in the same manner as Japanese swords, hundreds of years before.

As much as I agree with the OP about the Spanish/Italian rapier (my favorite sword), the OP is still a faggot.

>>7192575
>as good

IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI IAI

It's about the warrior behind the sword. I'll take the samurai, historically known as zealot to do die for their emperor.

but can it beat this *grabs dick*

No one brought up Aikido?

>>7192588
fuck i'm going going to bed
>>7192594
and aikido is the implied answer to everything

>>7192565
swords? they're obselete garbage now

guns are the real deal

Polite sage. I think you have the wrong board, kind OP.

Reported

I believe this is a topic that is better suited to /k/.

I'm inclined to disagree, piercing blades such as rapiers require quite a bit more stamina to use than something like a katana or broadsword, which emphasizes a single strike. Furthermore, parrying such a powerful style would be impractical, seeing as the difference in density of blades would mean that something like a rapier would either shatter, or bend enough to make a parry a moot point, so it would come down to distance control in the long run. Thinner blades also have the distinct disadvantage of potentially breaking if mishandled during a thrust. I'm not disputing that fencing is a more sophisticated, and skill intensive method of swordplay, but I think that someone employing fencing against a samurai would actually be at a distinct disadvantage simply because of the flaws of the weapon that have to be overcome with technique. By and far the Japanese katana is a superior weapon, since it literally has no weak points as far as bladed weapons go, you can thrust with it without fear of it breaking, you can block without fear of the blade bending or breaking, you can slash, and the balance just makes it a better weapon overall. A Spaniard with a rapier would have to make up for the gap in weapon efficiency with pure skill.

>>7192729
>such a powerful style would be impractical, seeing as the difference in density of blades would mean that something like a rapier would either shatter, or bend enough to make a parry a moot point

You're not supposed to stop the strike outright, but deflect it, see Aikido for reference.

>>7192599
and then you post a prop gun
with all the gun photos out there, you post a prop gun.

>>7192738

Granted, I'm just saying it would be incredibly difficult and impractical to do. Parrying differs from Aikido in that you still need enough force to push the blade, which can be risky depending on the angle and weight of the strike. At most, I'd say the most effective parry strategy would still require movement form the user, as too much force on the blade of a rapier would indeed snap it.

>>7192599

I believe that the quote from Shoot 'Em Up sums up my feelings about this:

"Do you know why Americans love guns, Mr. Hertz? And it's got nothing to do with all that phallic mumbo-jumbo, "cockin' your gun." No, Hertz, people love guns because America is a land of opportunity, where a poor man can become rich, and a pussy can become a tough guy, if he's got a gun in his hand. Now, I'm hopin' you're not just a pussy with a gun in your hand."

/r/ katana chopping broadsword in half.gif

>>7192752

I thought rapiers were just dueling weapons. Are they actually effective in large-scale combat?

>>7192762

This is a rapier versus a rapier and look how much the blade bends, imagine this versus something with much more density and weight behind it.

>>7192767
Actually it's a foil, a training weapon specifically made to be flexible. A rapier will fuck your shit up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(fencing)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier

That's like calling a Shinai a Katana.

>>7192765
For that you would need Rapier's big brother the Estoc. I hope I got the name right.

>>7192780
those bitches hurt.

I think at this point the main different is not in terms of the weapon's own properties, but the style which is most properly used with them (of course, their physical properties are what made people use them in their respective manners), which is thrusting against slashing (+others). If you have to consider which one is superior, you'd have to consider many more factors, including battle time, skill level, and amongst others, the quality of the weapon; these are factors you can't just assume to be equal or ignore, because they are so differently applied that equalizing them would just be screwing around with theoretical bullshit.

For example, if two males, each with one of the weapons, both possess almost no skill in weapon wielding but hold the best rapier and the best katana, try to fight one another, the likely outcome would be that the rapier wielder would lose just because thrusting is such a delicate style, more so than slashing. At that point it's a natural instinct to slash people with swords, because they are swords.

However, if they were masters of their own styles, I would imagine the result be much more muddled, and leaning towards the rapier wielder; the main problem here is the difference in range. The rapier thrust is definitely much longer than a katana stab, this is not just because a rapier is usually longer, but because the stance of thrusting requires only one hand, as opposed to two of the katana. The rapier user is allowed to position his torso and legs in such a way that his reach will always be further. Of course, this is ignore whether the Katana wielder can block the stab; I would imagine even if you are a master katana user, however, that blocking something like is still very difficult. It's like trying to block a bullet (well, not as fast, but it's just too small of a trajectory).

There's just too many factors involved, the above two are just two example conjectures.

>>7192803

This is true, though the very first sentence of the original post has nothing to do with technique or style, I was merely disputing that in terms of efficiency, without considering the wielder at all, the katana is a weapon that's fashioned in a much more efficient and superior manner.

I like the khopesh.

Not as if it matters though, my body becomes a weapon and a shield once I have the power of 合気道.

Why do I feel I will never know the truth about swords since these discussions are so corrupted by nationalist pride/bias?

>>7192765
>I thought rapiers were just dueling weapons. Are they actually effective in large-scale combat?

As effective as any sword can be. If you're looking for effective mêlée weapons in large-scale combat, pikes are where it's at.

>>7192820
>mêlée

no one's posted this?

>>7192820
Finally, someone who recognizes that polearms are superior to swords.

>>7192845
anyone who has watched so much as a history channel show on weapons should realize as much

swords were more of a status symbol than a really practical tool for fighting in large conflicts

>>7192847
Even if you say that, I hardly ever come across anyone who knows it.

>>7192820
Halberd here look at me being a pike and an axe.

>>7192803
>Of course, this is ignore whether the Katana wielder can block the stab; I would imagine even if you are a master katana user, however, that blocking something like is still very difficult. It's like trying to block a bullet (well, not as fast, but it's just too small of a trajectory).
There's no need to block the stab; like the fencer, one just has to deflect it. Point control in Japanese sword arts is highly important, and often you'll learn how to use the tip of your sword to deflect or move other blades fairly early on. It doesn't take much movement or force at all to completely mess up the trajectory of a strike.

the rapiers are at a disadvantage vertically

>Katana vs broadsword
I understand your need to return /jp/ to how it was, but next time post the semi-good threads, k?

>>7192847
>>7192850
That's because polearms aren't as cool and personal as swords.

>>7192917
Warhammers > both.

>>7192841
That was great. totally saved.

>>7192767
That's a fucking foil for use in modern competition, Jesus Christ are you that fucking retarded? It's made to NOT hurt the opponent and it's the lightest of the three modern fencing weapons. Fuck.

Anyway op, no matter how much you baaaaw, no one cares about western swords at our time. it's all about katanas.

>>7192841
No translation available? And thanks for the image.

>>7192841
This reminds me of diablo 2. I hope they don't wow up diablo 3 too much.

Feudal Japan was a very weak country in general. If the divine wind didn't turn back the mongol invasion then it would have been a massive army of well trained and equipped horsemen against a handful of samurais with katanas and a super-majority of starved peasants with sharpened bamboo in their hands.

It should also be noted that mongol tactics defeated Russia, China, Persia; they pretty much charged forward unimpeded until they hit a wall with the norse kingdoms. Japanese tactics pretty much revolved around "run at them and kill until you die."

But a Japanese supermiko and her magic storms crushed all that. Ever since then nobody has ever had enough balls to piss off a well-trained miko.

Katanas are overrated because you mostly see grand masters demonstrating them. If a master of the katana were up with a mediocre rapier fighter; he'd just slash with his katana until he caught deep into the rapier guy's thigh and left a wound that would both immobilize and eventually kill. If two equal fighters went at it, the katana guy's slashing motions would leave lots of openings that the rapier guy would exploit to turn him into swiss cheese.


>swords vs polearms

Sword is to pistol as rifle is to polearm. If you went to war you'd want a mighty rod of pwnage in your hands and a sword at your side; if you're in a dangerous ghetto then you'd want a pistol concealed on your person as you walk around in the city and you'd want to keep a rifle in your home in case shit hits the fan.

Remember; anyone who argues A vs B is an idiot. True winners have both.

>>7192968
>charged forward unimpeded until they hit a wall with the norse kingdoms
Tell me more about this. I'm your eager listener.

>>7192996
If you're interested then Wikipedia can probably keep you occupied for hour after hour.

tl;dr the mongols and vikings were around about the same time roughly 1000 years ago and history was blurry from alcohol but mostly awesome.

A well trained European can beat any samurai.

I could give you my word as a Spaniard.

A trained farmer from Japan can kill any European.

I give you my word as a Anglican.

A well moderated board wouldn't have threads like this.

I give you my sage as a troll.

>>7193001
Viking power started waning at the time the Mongols built the largest land empire on Earth by a couple of centuries.

>>7192841
You will never have a wooden club with embedded obsidian blades

A good board won't have shitty posters like in /jp

I give you my spoiler as a REPORTED

>>7192588
and knights were sworn to die before dishonor.

>>7192917
actually, a master with a polearm is impressive and duel containing a polearm is agressive as fuck. The problem is you don't see them often because even sparring with them is dangerours - still, it's always quite a show. You can't really afford longer slashes, but when you get the chance, it's the end of the match, because your opponent is already in range since you can do this and he can't block that shit.

Handling a polearm right requies more musculature than even Two-handed swords, though. They didn't even issue them BALANCED as weapons for footmen when they did issue them for footmen, but if you have one crafter right, it's awful to fight against.

>>7193013
Believe it or not, this is a healthier, more calm debate about this subject than it would be on any other board.

>>7193044
Yet dragon spear and halberd lose out to Scimitar and two handed God swords. Nice try.
Other than hitting targets taking up two squares, or using poison. They're just too slow, and the added range is negligible.

inb4
Ｉ’ｍ　ａｍｅｒｉｃａｎ　ｐｌａｙ　ｂａｄ　ｇａｍｅ　ｒｕｎｅｓｃａ
ｐｅ．

are we actually having this thread?

>You really think the Japanese sword was history’s most fearsome and dangerous weapon?


Yes and no.

The Japanese sword is THE greatest weapon, but Deagle brand Deagles is also THE greatest weapon, but I also think the fists of an Akido master are also THE greatest weapons.

Imagine if I had a DEAGLE brand DEAGLE that shoots KATANAS that cut like the fist of an AKIDO master. I'd be unstoppable.

>>7193058
People seem to be discussing it, so why not?

Reporting both of us for off-topic posting.

>>7193062
Akido master dual wielding a Katana and a Deagle brand Deagle.

I think this is much more logical, and possible.

>>7192594

>>7193065
More logical, yes.
More plausible, yes.
More awesome? No.

>>7193066
this image sums Aikido up pretty much to its fullest.

/r/ non-staged youtube/nico/whatever videos of aikido practitioners fighting other martial artists.
So far I've managed to find one, with the one-handed grandpa beating up a mentally disabled "mma" fighter.