/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Those were some retarded threads. I hope the faggots that made them starved to death so there' no chance of them polluting the gene pool.

Reality.

Reality and the lack of funds stand in our way.
And I would care for making VNs or anything related.

I'd just live in the /jp/ Mansion and have a task to fill in administration or gardening.

That's a bad idea.
The only real market for eroge is in japan, and even there it's extremely competitive and a bunch of inexperienced NEETs would never make it. Please wake up.

Those assholes swap from project to project. I'm sure they're the same stupid fucks who tried to make Pressure in /v/.

Making a cheap, shitty VN wouldn't be hard. Practice making a small route in Flash and maybe people would actually take you seriously.

they probably succeeded and then had the building "accidentally" bulldozed down while they were inside of it.

>>7317005
>polluting the gene pool
Do you even know where you are?

>>7317017
What's Pressure?

>>7317017
>Those assholes swap from project to project.

You mean you wish they would finish something? Can you think of any recent /jp/ examples?

>>7317005
>polluting the gene pool
>implying you'll ever spread your defective genes anywhere besides your chest after you jerk off.
Don't worry. They weren't going to jerk off onto your chest, relax. Your genes will never be polluted.

It's already been a year? ;_;

I still want to join a /jp/ VN company. Even if it realistically wouldn't work, it would be more productive than what I'm doing now.

Come on /jp/ it isn't like any of us have anything to lose, right? I want to believe in our dreams!

>>7317015
Ryukishi made it, so can we.

>>7317030

/v/ used to have a ton of threads about building a game called Pressure. An underwater survival/horror game with a bunch of cool ideas. The general premise was that you're an underwater researcher, a giant creature wrecks your lab and maybe eats some people, and you have to go out in your dive suit and complete missions which involve interactions with deadly elements like riptides, increasing pressure, and giant squids. Someone actually went and made a small, navigable room (supposedly the beginning), but shat up the story with a bunch of stupid bullshit about fishmen and the occult. As far as I know it never went farther than that.

>>7317059
I would love to, all we need is to a lot of money.

>>7317068
We could just band over the internet instead of a physical building at first. Chances are the company won't last long anyway, renting the warehouse might just end up being a waste of money.

>>7317068

I could code a VN in an hour in Visual Basic, and I barely passed the Intro class.
The only hard part is doing all the ungodly amounts of writing. It's like writing a novel with branching paths. Although I think the biggest problems would be stuff like this:

>Okay guiz since I started the idea I get to be the director and I approve (or more like disapprove lololol) absolutely everything, k?
>Well my idea is that should totally have a yandere love interest who likes pocky and animu :3
>Well MY idea is that the MC should browse /jp/, and make lots of references to our memes!
>I think this VN needs to be totally serious. And by that I mean we're going to rip off Season of Sakura.

>>7317068
That isn't true at all. We don't have to set up a company until we have something to company about.

All of the development tools we would need are essentially free anyway.

the engine is easy. hell, i could build a multiplayer VN engine over the weekend

the problem is artwork.

>>7317094
I would totally do the artwork. There are a ton of people who probably would actually.

>>7317097
yeah, but something better than stick figure theatre?

I think if /jp/ collaborates on a project, it should go something like this.

1. Gather up your writers and envision the project that you want to complete.
2. Throw it out the window and envision a mini-project that's conceptually similar and one tenth as much work as a demonstration of the working group and proof of concept.
3. Abandon the mini-project after completing a fifty of it.

I think if /jp/ collaborates on a project, it should go something like this.

1. Gather up your writers and envision the project that you want to complete.
2. Throw it out the window and envision a mini-project that's conceptually similar and one tenth as much work as a demonstration of the working group and proof of concept.
3. Abandon the mini-project after completing a fifth of it.

>>7317082
>I could code a VN in an hour in Visual Basic, and I barely passed the Intro class.

No you couldn't. Otherwise prove it, since it would just take an hour at most?

There is a difference in understanding the basic principles of something, and actually understanding how it works.

There is also a difference in understanding something and actually being able to do it. This is where /jp/ and many other internet hot shots fail. They completely overestimate their current abilities and underestimate the sheer quantity of work things require.

>>7317098
Of course. Have some faith.

>>7316999
Don't start this shit again, warehouse threads were bigger cancer than KS spamming, with 10 different dedicated tripfags, yandere lovers from /a/ and tons on normalfag scum. /jp/ was so butthurt over them that even mod started deleting their threads until they fizzled out.

>>7317131
Only a few threads ever got deleted. Which doesn't mean anything because all sorts of threads got deleted at the time.

Since it seems the main problem is the actual writing and not coding or artwork, maybe it'd be easier to just adapt some book into vn form for starters?

>>7317158
Dandelion girl did pretty good.

>>7317158

Actually, the main problem would be people losing interest before it even started.

>>7317158
You mean like Dandy Girl?

>>7317158
I'd be interested in lending some ideas and even writing some of it but every time I try to make an email account so /jp/ can contact me I can never think of one. I always try to think of some ambiguous, generic names but I just can't. One of these days.

>>7317158
You mean like SICP?

>>7317172
forlackofabettername@[domain].com

No need to thank me.

>>7317167
The problems in order of severity:
1. People losing interest.
2. Spam.
3. Trolls.
4. Coders that talk big but can't do anything.
5. Artists that can't produce anything but fanart.
6. Next big thing.

The writing is usually the easiest part, well right after coming up with ideas.

write a basic feature set for the VN and i'll code it.

a simple VN is branching route with scenes, dialog, and deicision points. a decision does not have to change a route, but can set a FLAG or VALUE up/down. the dialog can check the FLAG/VALUE and change the route.

more complicated systems would be "sandbox" style where the player moves around and time/date & values changes what occurs in that scene/area.

highly complicated is more like an RPG and the characters have daily schedules, etc

>>7317172
>lending some ideas and even writing some of it
>try to think of some ambiguous, generic names but I just can't
You may be interested, but you can't do it. Just realize it an stop thinking that you're creative.

>>7317200
There are already several free VN engines out there. But you didn't mention scripting, asset processing, or anything like that.

The core logic of the game wouldn't be too much work though. Or are you not >>7317082 ?

>>7317217
the simple version doesnt have scripts.

asset processing? that's just a file associated with the scene/dialog.

i am not >>7317082

>>7317215
Rude.

>>7317108
Not him, but it certainly doesn't look THAT hard. Granted, for it to be done in an hour or so, one would need all the drawings, text boxes, and every other graphical thingy already done.

Definitely easier than a shmup, though, which is something I actually made.

Warehouse was the stupidest shit ever.

The premise was basically NHK minus the things that made it funny, the concept art was less a bunch of character sketches than a collection of fetishes, including one that was named after a shitty 3d attention whore, and the small scraps of writing that I saw seemed to have been written by someone who'd never interacted with an actual fucking human in his life.

Had it gotten off the ground instead of crashing and burning, I have little doubt that it would have turned into something even worse than KS.

>>7317243
Assets as in files, data, packed data, whatever. There is usually more to it than simply this->scene.do_associated_file(); for example processing animation, scaling, positioning sprites, playing associated music.

But never mind, I thought you were the other guy.

Oh, I remember those threads.

Still like my idea of how to make it happen.
Purchase land in TX (stupid cheap)
Purchase steel warehouse (60'x60' can be had for $15k)
Foundation would cost about $6k
Another $4k for insulation and cooling

I think with $40k this could be doable.
Only issue is with money for food. I don't see a hikki living away from home getting any money from his parents after age 25. There are grocery stores that deliver, or one NEET with a car could go pick stuff up at 2am.

>>7317274
As I recall most of the people involved were from /a/ and even admitted to not having played many VNs. I think people actually from /jp/ could make something good.

>>7317264
Things take time. In some ways a shmup is easier because it relies less on the GUI.

I don't spend time in VB, but I find it hard to believe you can easily do anything with it and not look like an office 97 plugin.

>>7317316
SECRET CLUB INITIATION
Review how many VN's someones read and quiz them on the content.

>>7317316
>I think people actually from /jp/ could make something good.

I think you should stop deluding yourself. Most of the people on /jp/ are uneducated, unmotivated, apathetic losers, who would derive far more enjoyment from seeing you fail than helping you succeed.

>Ryukishi made it, so can we.
yeah, but he made extensive worlds, with interesting characters and concepts, not a generic harem vn with a twist "but they're in a warehouse!" like what jp tried.

>>7317316
There were quite a few from /jp/ actually contributing I think. Mugen even tried to offer help with backgrounds at one point.

The problem was that people from /a/ and /v/ were hijacking the threads because they felt it lacked direction and they needed to take charge.

It started with them nitpicking at the established ideas and adding in their own, eventually spiraling into a circle jerk that lacked new content being made.

>>7317332
Most, not all.

What is this warehouse nonsense? It was supposed to be in a garage. Remember, Gara-ge or whatever?

>>7317351
The ones that aren't have enough ability that they don't need other people "helping".

>>7317373
It's not a matter of "ability" when you're talking about making an entire VN. They aren't single-man projects.

>>7317393
Which obviously means that you should try to recruit people from an imageboard that collectively prides itself on how much of a loser it is.

>>7317322
>not look like an office 97 plugin.

It all depends on the pretty graphics I use and is not related to my programming ability.

>because it relies less on the GUI.

Programming a GUI is easier than making sprites and moving backgrounds.

Perhaps, saying that it would take an hour is an hyperbole, but with a little love and dedication, a weekend maybe? Hell, a week, tops.

>>7317417
All of these normals, I swear. Okay sure, go be a winner wage slave with your girlfriend and catch herpes before she leaves you for another man and forces you to pay child support.

I think all the camwhores moved to /soc/...

>>7317447
You're a retard. Please leave.

Anyone want to make a multiplayer simulated messageboard where players can beat each other up?

I remember this. Mugen offered his warehouse and uploaded a few pictures. After that it just died.

>>7317465
Like a multiplayer forumwars?

>>7317439
Programming a GUI engine with event handling, scripting, drawing fonts, states, input, and all the things that go into a GUI is easier than basic transformations along the y axis? Oh wow.

>>7317470
Never heard of it before though it sounds like the same idea.

>>7317490
Forumwarz is an rpg though

Let us assume that we have a completed VN engine.

That just leaves sounds, music, sprites, backgrounds, other art, and a story. We already have like five people in the last month working on their own VN engine so why aren't artists working on sprites or writers preparing their stories?

>>7317489
>event handling
>input

I totally didn't need any kind of input whatsoever for a shmup, so event listeners are a completely alien concept to me.

>>7317082
>>7317108
>>7317114

Well it's over an hour later, almost two hours actually and you're still not done yet. I guess you were just a chump after all.

what the fuck do you need to make vn engine for?

>>7317558
Because reinventing the wheel is how all the cool kids prove they're better than the average cat.

>>7317575
This has potential

OP here. You know guys, while I'm just sifting through the old thread something struck me.

For all the talk of how bad the original threads were and how terrible the project was, I think /jp/ must be far shittier right now than back then. The original thread started out with a lot of enthusiasm, people volunteering and contributing fairly early on. A lot of people pitched all kinds of VN ideas and offered practical tips like aiming for Comiket before a company.

In the face of such a horrible summer ahead of us, I wish we could band together and get something done for once.

Lets finish the Warehouse project this summer, okay /jp/?
Even if we just do it for the pantyhose and socks.

>>7317642
What you consider being shittier, someone else might think of it as "learning from past mistakes"

ONScripter.
Kirikiri.
Ren'py.

Hell, there's even enough tools you could just steal RealLive or N2System or similar non-free engines.

The engine is not the problem, and anybody who's played more than two VNs should know that. Now stop being idiots and find a way to not make everybody lose interest after the first two weeks.

>>7317647
I don't want to be the bitter hikki forever. I want to believe in the dream again.

>>7317546
>>7317546

Source of pic? Tried iqdb, no results, tineye did show some, but none of any help

Just start a translation company.
Just look at how shitty MG and JAST are. We need an alternative.

>>7317658
http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=1653

>>7317656
That's nice. Go do it somewhere else.

My idea for a visual novel was about a delivery man out in deep space, doubling as a boarder patrol shortly after a large war and the unification of the galaxy.

The MC's ship is very small like a 6 mat room and just one room except for a compact machine room, washroom, and cockpit. He enjoys his quiet life out there all alone for weeks, months, or maybe years at a time, except for his ship's computer and/or support A.I. with which he can link up to, to help him keep his sanity and perform his tasks.

The story evolves from setting out near the center of the galactic empire, making stops along the way towards the furthest frontier outposts as a new war starts to unfold.

The supporting characters include his/his ship's support A.I., androids, mutants, colleagues in the delivery business as well as rivals.

The way he links up to the A.I. can also be described as something similar to lucid dreaming where he can interact with the A.I in their own private world.

The theme is probably a bit like an idealized version of the early wild west out on the frontier, but in space, and some civil war.

Another motif is probably disillusion with the progress of mankind through society, away from their natural beginnings. So the MC could probably be described as a bit of a hikikomori.

tl;dr

A space opera VN.

>>7317200
>write a basic feature set for the VN and i'll code it.

I'm not sure it's anything out of the ordinary. Just a regular VN you know. Try to keep it simple at first?

>>7317814
Okay, so you have a setting and two characters. What happens next? What kind of exciting events occur that makes the story focus on that exact part of his life? What makes your story better than any of the other 4582349534758345 space operas out there? How does it end?

>>7317814
Wouldn't it be easier to start with something closer to home? And short?

It should be about a group of niche culture fans that get together to try to produce a product, but ultimately fail as a result of character flaws which are exposed during the course of the story.

I'm pretty sure someone on /jp/ can write about that properly.

Being short is key. If we were going to have multiple people collaborating, what's more important than anything else is actually getting it done to set a precedent and establish a group with a history. Making something full-length is just asking to have some key member quit on you halfway through(most likely the artist as the writer is pretty much the one with true creative liberty).

>>7317830
War happens; on his way to deliver a large black case to an outlying research facility monitoring bodies of dark matter, a civil war breaks out. This puts the main character into battle, however his small ship is actually a refitted scouting ship capable of high speeds and fast maneuvers. He doesn't really support either side and the scale of most battles are skirmishes due to the vastness of space. Throughout this he has to constantly make pit stops at other outposts and planets before he can reach his final destination.

The black case he is delivering also carries a specialist android that has yet to be activated. This will be revealed along the way due to circumstances not being ideal, and the android takes on a role sort of like a daughter, with vast scientific knowledge but no essential communication and social techniques.

He doesn't have much in the way of aspirations, he's just surviving like he's doped up and mellowed out most of the time, going through the motions.

>>7317883
Is this some sort of epic tale or do you actually expect this to be told within a reasonable amount of words? Honest question, I can't quite tell.

There's no way you should expect a group of anonymous strangers to get together and produce a full-length collaborative project. Something will happen along the way if it's too long. Just look at KS.

If you make a short story, then most likely at the very least you'll have something done and probably a good idea of who works in the group and who doesn't.

>>7317883
Sounds awfully generic, if you ask me. What makes it stand out among the 4543859349 similar stories?

>>7317855
What kind of niche culture fans? Who are the characters? What are their flaws? What are they producing? And how can you have good character development while keeping it short?

>>7317855
>It should be about a group of niche culture fans that get together to try to produce a product, but ultimately fail as a result of character flaws which are exposed during the course of the story.

That actually sounds pretty good!

They could group up, some out of curiosity, some to show off, some out of desperation, and decide to start a company with lots of creative energy in a warehouse but ultimately fail.

>>7317855

I like this idea, have the protag be the writer or something, with the arrogant game designer as the antagonist. A fat prick as the artist and a Madotsuki-esque girl as the coder.

Everyone are constantly clashing while the writer and the girl sits on the sidelines observing the spectacle.

>>7317919
If you're going to do it, random idea I'm throwing in: Leave some stuff unfinished. For example, leave some character sprites as only colorless sketches. Give it an unfinished feel to fit the story.

>>7317911
>Is this some sort of epic tale or do you actually expect this to be told within a reasonable amount of words? Honest question, I can't quite tell.

More of an epic I would say. I have a space opera itch I just can't quite scratch.

You're probably right though it is way too much for a group of people that have more proven failed attempts than success.

>>7317911
>Sounds awfully generic, if you ask me.
Most things are generic I guess. Especially at a concept stage if you get all original then it's trying too hard.

>What makes it stand out among the 4543859349 similar stories?
Not much, what makes your life stand out from billions of other people? I don't think generic and unoriginal plots are a bad thing. They can be quite enjoyable, and if they're done tastefully they will be praised as highly original and groundbreaking even though this can't possibly be the case.

>>7317855
>>7317914
>>7317919
Makes me think of episode 10 of Paranoia Agent, "Mellow Maromi". It's an episode that almost completely stands alone, so you can watch it without having seen any other Paranoia Agent episodes. It's about a group of people producing the first episode of an anime series, but completely fucking up. Meanwhile, their staff members suddenly die one by one.

Worth watching for inspiration if you plan to take this anywhere. (It's on the /jp/ FTP, in /Anime/Paranoia Agent/)

>>7317942
Non-original stories can only succeed if the execution is better than with similar stories. Considering we're all a bunch of amateurish and lazy fucks, I doubt our execution would be any better than ANY other executions of the exact same plot.

>>7317949
Huh? How can you even think that any VN has an original story? Prove it. It's not possible.

I don't think it has to be better than anything else to be worthwhile or enjoyable. Wherever we go with ideas, and whatever we do there is always going to be some genre, culture, or history we're tapping in to. And if that isn't the case then we'll still overlap but run the high risk of coming over as uncultured and uneducated morons.

I do think it has some merit to be conscious about pitfalls that will make it a painful, tedious or boring experience. But I don't think we should get too hung up on how creative or unique it is. We can't win like that because it will paralyze us.

>>7317971
This story wasn't even possible before the invention of VNs.

>>7317926

Thats a nice idea. Maybe it could gradually get worse as the story progresses? The last chapter of the story could be like a sketch.

>>7317855
Here.

Sorry, it was simply a suggestion with some guidelines for strategy. I don't have talent as a writer, but if someone who likes the idea does, then I think it would be the kind of story that /jp/ as a whole would work well with. When it comes down to it I don't think any of us are a vision of success and so coming up with believable, interesting character flaws that impede success shouldn't be a hard task. I think it would be especially good because different characters could have their own endings, so it doesn't need to be a complete sob story or "life-goes-on" story, as most stories like that are.

Somebody's question so far about how the characters would be developed without being long is a good one, but I will leave that question up to someone better at storytelling than myself if the idea is used. What I really wanted to get out is just the part about using a premise close to home and the importance behind making any kind of first project a short one.

Moving away from that since I have no further input...
I'd also like to know what would be done for the art, though. The artist and the writer are arguably the key parts, and while the writer is probably the one with real control over what happens, if the artist drops out on you you're probably fucked. I think it can be said that for the most part, the artist has to put up with the writer, and not so much the other way around, so this makes the artist dropping out not unlikely if the artist isn't being paid and there are creative differences(as the artist will be putting out quite a bit of effort to recreate what the writer writes to satisfaction). So what's to be done to ensure this rather likely event doesn't happen? Do we hire an artist with money so they don't bitch or would we still rely on someone freely helping?

You guys can use
http://scribe.googlelabs.com/
To write the plot for you.

>>7318010
>a new and improved method of making a living from the land of the free energy of the system is not a valid stream resource in D minor for two violins and a cello player and a great deal of time and money to the poor and the rich and famous and the most important thing is to get the best of the best in the world of the living room and dining room with a view to the sea and the mountains of the world and the world of the living room and dining room with a view to the sea and the mountains of the world and the world of the living room

Well, it's better than whatever I can write at least.

>>7317982
There was a movies in the 80's, I think it could have been a jaws film where they were trapped in an underwater park of some sort. Actually I'm foggy on the details but the premise of a group being cut off and trapped underwater has been repeated a few times by even Hollywood.

Then add the basic concepts of time paradox stories, breaking the 4th wall, and deus ex machina.

It doesn't sound very original. What part was supposed to be original?

Even Fate/Stay Night if you pitch it could be summed up as: King Arthur vs. Hercules vs. Medusa vs. Deedlit vs. Gilgamesh vs. Some Irish guy and a ninja. Oh, but king Arthur is a girl, and they have sex for mana transfers.

I'm not getting into an argument about those VN's but comparing a pitch to a finished product just isn't fair.

>>7318002
I don't see why an artist should be singled out and paid money. These kinds of projects however fanciful have never offered pay to programmers and the like when their task is at times arguably the most time consuming and difficult.

>>7318047
If you put it like that, NOTHING is original.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheTropelessTale

Originality is taking existing ideas and combining them like they haven't been done before. Ever17 did some things that weren't done in that way before, completely surprising most of us with its twists.

>>7318099
I thought I wouldn't fall for it and now I've got 9 tabs open. Fuck you.

>>7318099
That's exactly what I was getting at. The actual execution of a story takes the reader through a whole processes that stimulates the imagination. It isn't the same as summarizing or pitching a concept.

There was a guy who posted about half a year ago that said he wanted to make a VN with a story that would make people shit bricks. I don't think it really works that way...

>>7318072
I could see paying a programmer too. I explained my reasoning behind why the artist might be paid in the post you quoted. It's to my understanding that oftentimes, doujin/VN groups hire artists, so I figured I would suggest it and guess at their reasoning(that the artist is at the mercy of the writer and the project is more or less centered around the writer(being a form of a novel)).

I think the entire premise here is that the project would more or less be done as a group of /jp/'ers working for free. But the artist and writer have the responsibility of producing creative content, and their jobs are intertwined with the author in control. Nobody else really has to bend over backwards for the author like the artist, and so if there's nothing to stop him from quitting over a creative difference, then the project is much more likely to fail.

I don't necessarily object to the idea that the programmer's job is worth money, but they know what to expect going into the job, more or less. And unlike the artist, to my understanding their job doesn't really depend on the author's whim.

I don't think it is "fair" that the artist should be paid and no one else either. But I'm mentioning this to get discussion about it because the artist and writer sticking through throughout the project seems paramount. There are probably other solutions as well. I can think of only one, though, which is:

Complete the writing before searching for an artist so the artist can decide if he's willing to draw it for free or not before he starts.

Seems a little unreasonable.

>>7318167
It does, you can have a pitch of a story that clearly lets people shit bricks. You could summarize Ever17 as Six/seven people are locked up in a flooded underground theme park. The game is told from the perspectives of two protagonists; however, the perspectives don't fully match up together, and there's lots of very slight differences between the two perspectives (for example, who the sixth character is differs depending on the perspective. The personalities of the characters themselves is also slightly different). Most of the story is spent confusing the player by giving him contradicting signals from both perspectives, then in the end it's revealed that they're not two perspectives of the same situation at all - they're actually two completely different but very similar stories taking place in completely different years! Not all of the characters from the original incident made it out alive, so the remaining characters replicate the entire incident 17 years in the future, in order to confuse the player, a four-dimensional being, so he gets stuck in a certain timeline so he can help the original cast.
Although the above pitch is probably even much more detailed than necessary. The details (who are the characters, what is the reason they're doing this, etc) can be worked out later.

>>7318205
>I don't necessarily object to the idea that the programmer's job is worth money
But I do. VNs don't need a "programmer", you only need to do scripting. And it's so easy, anyone can pick it up as a side task. It's not worth money.

>>7318206
That sounds incredibly stupid.

>>7318213
I'll stop talking after this as it's clearly getting into an area where I'm talking out of my ass. I was simply taking the other guy's word for it about it being a difficult job(or was that you?).

I was thinking something similar while I was writing it, which is that if the programmer feels dissatisfied with the project, it would seem to me that any other capable programmer could come in after them and pick it back up, whereas if the artist leaves, unless you find a talented person who can copy his style or you're willing to settle for an inconsistent piece, either the art has to start all over again or the entire project breaks up.

But if you're the person I was replying to with that post, I don't quite follow the line of reasoning behind your replies.

>>7318231
Speaking as someone who has done visual novel scripting (and not the person you were replying to earlier), I can tell you that "programming" a visual novel is incredibly easy and not worth any money.
That said, I don't believe that the artist should be paid anything either. The most important part of a visual novel is the script, not the pictures.

>>7318257
Well, we've established that it's not really fair. But ideally, the project isn't going to start without a writer who has something he wants to write in the first place. That's the entire premise behind the perspective I've been speaking from.

So the consensus is that the artist should just be trusted to stick around, then, or is there another idea? Unless people think the idea of a VN with varying art styles due to artists quitting is acceptable, in which case you can disregard everything I've said about art.

The scenario writing guides tell us that the story first and foremost should be about the character(s). It should be possible to summarize it with "this is a story of a character that...". Protagonist, his motives, personality, actions is the main driving force of a story.
All other features, events, setting, etc matter much less and could be worked on on the spot.

Also it's nice to have some grand idea behind the story. The thing that you want to tell your readers, that will give the story a meaning and depth.

>>7318231
No, it was me, not him. I don't go into great detail with all the catches and clauses of what I post. I don't think a discussion needs a reference manual.

However, excuse me for actually meaning /jp/ projects in general rather than just some VN. On the other hand the group could start requesting features that aren't in the VN engine currently being used resulting in either (if its open source) being rewritten, or a new VN engine needs to be found and the programmer/scripter needs to acclimate to that too.

Most VN engines are extremely old and outdated so even the open source ones can be a headache to add things to.

With an easy to use engine the work of a scripter may as well be done by a writer. But before continuing with that reasoning, let me just say that I was making another point.

The point I was making was that while it's common for artists to quit first citing they're too busy or it's too much work, it isn't like everyone else is made of time either.

Either way there isn't a point in continuing the discussion because as you've probably already guessed nobody is going to be paying anybody anything.

Maybe I didn't make it clear how I was perceiving a project like this coming together, but I suppose it doesn't matter much.

>>7318315
Yeah, you're right. I can't really imagine anybody paying for the art. Maybe it was a bad idea to approach the question with that ultimatum, but my question wasn't really "Should we pay the artist?" It was:

"Since the writer and artist are the most likely sources of creative difference and the author is in control, how do you prevent the artist from quitting without extra incentive?"

>>7318309
>a VN with varying art styles due to artists quitting
Another idea for the unfinished look mentioned in >>7317926 .

Maybe I didn't make it clear how I was perceiving a project like this coming together, but I suppose it doesn't matter much.

>>7318315
Yeah, you're right. I can't really imagine anybody paying for the art. Maybe it was a bad idea to approach the question with that ultimatum, but my question wasn't really "Should we pay the artist?" It was:

"Since the writer and artist are the most likely sources of creative difference and the author is in control, how do you prevent the artist from quitting without extra incentive? Or do we just trust the artist like the other members?"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the artist ditching the project is generally the most common source of failure in these types of projects. I recall seeing a few different examples from different places in which it happens.

>>7318338
Well we could also approach the project as a "director" managing a goup including an artist and a writer.

Eventually somebody will take charge or bar a freak miracle of the right circumstances a project will never get off the ground. The problem with people taking chance is that usually they're of the variety that recognize the necessity for leadership but don't make any contribution of substance themselves.

Usually the rare amateur project like these tend to have an artist, writer, or programmer filling the leadership roles as well as maybe one of the other roles.

How does a VN script look like anyway.
Something like this?

The space before me is warping.
Prog: W-What is going on?
A:God is here.

>>7318338
Artists ditching the project happened twice to me. What is worse is that I even shelled out some money to both of them each time.

Honestly, artists are the worst people on the planet.

Website related: It's my dead in the water project that has been collecting dust since our artist bailed.

http://studio-nihi.com/shockcocoon/
;_;

/jp/ is too autistic.

/v/ has actually made about half-a-dozen games

/mu/ does the obvious

even /a/ has storythreads, makes manga/doujinshi and even has several VN projects going on

>>7318638
>/v/ has actually made about half-a-dozen games

Haha... what?

>>7318634
Why the hell is it always the artists? Writers and programmers always do a nice amount of work, and then the artists bail without doing much work at all.

>>7318648
I wish I knew. Maybe it's that I gave them money? It wasn't much, just $40-60, ya' know - what I'd spend on a person if I was treating them to dinner and a movie.

But honestly, each time the artist bailed it reset everything because "LOL EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE REDRAWN xDD"

>>7318651
The artists bailing happens even easier if it's free. I don't think artists on /jp/ are capable of the sheer amount of content you need to provide. Ideas are easy, everybody has them. When it comes down to doing it, most of these artists have never seen this amount of work before.

>>7318595
ONScripter: http://pastebin.com/HsBGZdhv
Kirikiri: http://pastebin.com/AqYndyUb
Ren'py: http://pastebin.com/aBKdEjZF
N2System: http://pastebin.com/63mNmy0r
It varies per engine, but usually it isn't too difficult. Well, unless you're using N2System.

>>7318681
Yeah, the scripting part is never a big deal. You only need programmers if an engine doesn't already exist for what you want to do. For VNs, there's plenty of stuff.

We really need some auxiliary board where we could dump all of these ideas and projects.

>>7318865
http://bunbunmaru.com/kareha/projects/

>>7318953
Get out bun devs.

you don't need a warehouse

you need a pier

http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=10266

>>7317830
>>7317910
how many space opera VNs are out there?

>>7317943
also like welcome to the NHK

Getting funds is easy. The problem getting a profit on the product.

>>7319057

Profit? We'll do it because its fun and release it for free.

>>7318634
You just need an artist? Do you have an email I can contact? I might be interested in drawing for you. If you'd be interested anyway.

>>7318634
Honestly we should all just try and help this dude get something done with his.

>>7319310
I would if I could draw anything.

>>7317346

It's too bad no one wanted to do anything with this. This girl was cute.

Did she even have a name?

>>7318675
>>7318634
>>7318651
It's always the artists. In the professional world they're usually quite cheap and you have a team of trained professionals to pick up where one leaves off. Sadly it seems all artists are just passing through and want to go on to do other things.

>>7319568
Lucetta. I posted a linup of the characters too. >>7317914

>>7319598

Too many characters. Too much stuff. Too ambitious with too little talent.This might get finished in a studio, but not on /jp/.

Why don't you just do a different short story for each of them and release them gradually (if you need to use them all--Lu's the only interesting one anyway)? You'd want each of them to contribute to some bigger "meta-story" though.

No one who makes enough money to rent a warehouse wants to live with all of you.

Boof will never spirit you away

>>7319625

Oh hai Lion, how's Dandy Girl 2 coming?

>>7319625
Well it only had three characters until one of the contributing artists muscled in Chris and Alexis. And Chisame because people wanted a trap character.

>>7319644

I gave up on it. I just don't have the patience, time or money to produce the kind of quality content the story deserves.

Just kidding. I finished the Julie route a couple of weeks ago. Still hoping to make it by Summer Comiket, although I haven't heard back from my artist in a while. No idea how to make an installer but I'm working on it.

>>7319651
In all honesty, if this is a plot heavy game and that character wasn't in the original conception of the story, I would drop the that character. No one gives a shit about a trap's personality, they just like them for their looks. If this is a serious story, I don't really think you'd want to tackle transgenderism and all that stuff since it would sicktrack the plot.

i'm not that good at drawing, but if someone needs help with the art in their project, i feel like helping out right now

>>7319669

>>7318651
>$40-60
Hmm, that might be enough.

...for ONE picture that doesn't look like shit.

>>7319689
Being realistic, good looking art isn't the top priority as is art that actually exists. Just get someone to draw SOMETHING at the very least, hell if the story is good enough people will overlook the art.

If I was making a VN, I would take a mediocre artist who actually did the artwork instead of some talented artist full of themselves and not really giving themselves 100% to the project.

Additionally, artists can improve over time. Imagine someone proven to actually work on shit who's work looks like shit. If they keep at it, their art will improve over time. Such a person would be invaluable.

>>7319698
See, what is this with the low end of amateur art? I can't wait for the day that technology completely replaces the grunt artist. We're not even that far off from the looks of it, maybe another five or ten years?

Go to deviantart, it's full of enthusiastic teens eager to draw your sugoi kawaii drawings to fill your VA sprites for free.

So how's the game going /jp/?

Quitting because the artist gives up is stupid.

Use placeholders, finish the novel, then look into ways to do something about the visuals.

>>7319734
>Use placeholders

Why dont you start with a demo /jp/? Start with something simple and easy for everybody.

Hey Lion, you're a published writefag aren't you? Couldn't you edit fior some anon's project or something? Or i don't know, WRITE for it?

>>7319689
If you're offering to help, we're willing to accept, especially art-wise, join onto #moetron-vn@irc.rizon.net

>>7319808

i don't exactly know how to use irc, but maybe it worked?

>>7319902
He likes to be in charge of his own projects and not commit himself to another persons vision. Actually this seems to go for just about everyone.

Chapter.4./jp/.manor.where

>>7319965

Oops, I meant to reply to >>7319797

>>7319965
>>7319970

Not entirely true, I've done editing and written pieces for people for free in the past. As a journalist I have to suck it up and get kicked in the balls by my editors plenty as it is, so it's not like I'm all LOL NO IT HAS TO BE MY WAY. Well, unless it's something borderline retarded like "She's the MC's ghost cousin but is actually his cyborg imouto from the future."

But anyway, yeah, I'd need to know things are planned out and the project actually has some realistic potential.

Maybe I'll write a short story for that Lucetta girl.

>>7319969
As I've posted in >>7305957 :
>Yes and no. I've written part of chapter 4, but whenever I write more again, I become dissatisfied with what I've written and give up again. I want to do it right, but because of that I'm not doing anything...
>
>I'll try to finish chapter 4, but I can't promise anything beyond that. /jp/ Manor was never intended to be a serious project, but now people are actually expecting something and I can't take it easy anymore...

>>7319965
>>7319970

Not entirely true, I've done editing and written pieces for people for free in the past. As a journalist I have to suck it up and get kicked in the balls by my editors plenty as it is, so it's not like I'm all LOL NO IT HAS TO BE MY WAY. Well, unless it's something borderline retarded like "She's the MC's ghost cousin but is actually his cyborg imouto from the future."

But anyway, yeah, I'd need to know things are planned out and the project actually has some realistic potential.

Maybe I'll write a short story for that Lucetta girl.

>>7320044
Aw dang.

I missed that thread.
Gonna try your new VN out. - Internet went down in the middle of my S.T.A.L.K.E.R download, 1h and 20 minutes left now...

Personally, I think some of the stories I've released are terrible. I criticize LSF for releasing such crap, but I release crap that isn't much better. On the other hand, the people who read it are really positive about it.

It's a funny situation. On the one hand I don't want to release such crap, but on the other hand I want to release it because people enjoy it...

>>7320051
Well if you're interested I've got a whole bunch of Warehouse related content just sitting around doing nothing. I could try to put it all together so you've got something to base your writing off. The basic plot was that a NEET who's parents / family have died is running out of inheritance, gets evicted and tries to live the dream of starting a game company in an abandoned warehouse.

Church girl comes in to the plot where she concerned busy body trying to help the misogynist misanthrope MC.

There was actually some scenario stuff posted on patebin a while back, someone put it into a VN engine, and some others even made a few tracks of music for it. But that was as far as it ever got.

>>7320256
>Church girl comes in to the plot where she concerned busy body trying to help the misogynist misanthrope MC.
Where have I seen this before...?

>>7320269
Yeah, and? It didn't start out as an N.H.K. spoof but it just evolved some key similarities. There's no point getting so buttflustered about it and changing everything so there aren't similarities anymore.

The best unfinished project /jp/ has ever worked on.

Do we even have any drawfags left on /jp/ or have all the regulars really left now?

>>7320320
Yeah, but that's not just similarities. She's an exact clone of Misaki, down to the 'church girl' part. Only her character design is radically different (she looks like a fantasy priest/nun rather than an actual church girl).

Making a visual novel is a... novel idea, but I am more on the side of making an actual Hentai Game one day. Sawatex's Kasumu touching game really inspired me to do it. But since I know jack shit about programming, I am currently taking a class in my campus to do so.

Japan's focusing too much on Visual Novels, and the Hentai Games they're pumping are usually shit, or has some tacked on gimmick in it. I still stand by the notion and touching games make the perfect Hentai Games, but no one cares to improve on it.

>>7321422
No, you have it all wrong which is funny because those are exactly the accidental similarities that were mentioned.

Church Girl is actually a clone of Karen Ortensia right down to the pantyhose. The character design of the Chruch Girl occurred mostly independently to the scenario brainstorming until they were brought together.

If it seems like an exact clone of N.H.K. to you then that has more to do with you than either the N.H.K. or the Warehouse project.

>>7321422
No, you have it all wrong which is funny because those are exactly the accidental similarities that were mentioned.

Church Girl is actually a clone of Karen Ortensia right down to the pantyhose. The character design of the Chruch Girl occurred mostly independently to the scenario brainstorming until they were brought together.

If it seems like an exact clone of N.H.K. to you then that has more to do with you than either the N.H.K. or the Warehouse project.

>>7321465

>>7321496
Stop that.

>>7321496
Huh? Why would I even be mad? Trolls sure are stupid retards these days.

>>7321496
Bump.

Anyone else remember /jp/ girl?

Wow, that was over a year ago?

I remember those shitty threads made me too disgusted with /jp/ to return for some time, but I didn't realize it was that many months.

>>7324344
Oh yeah because /jp/ is really good now, right?

/jp/ being productive and creative is disgusting. it should go back to the shivering wreck that hides in the corner and faps to touhou hotglue.

>>7324492
You must be new here. OC threads have been on /jp/ for month now.

>>7325821
>for months
Sounds like somebody's only been here for months.

>>7325825
No, but it wasn't so popular until recently. Or I didn't notice it because it was too shitty.

ITT: normalfags

first make a Light Novel including artwork of the game's main branch.
then i'll code something for you guys.

>>7325821
If you bothered to look closely at them, you would notice that all of those "OC threads" are a circlejerk of attention whores and deviantart migrants that never actually listen to the community's ideas. They're shit, and the people that make them are non-NEETs that should die in a fire.

>>7325854
Not really, no.

>>7325841
OC threads have existed for years and they have spikes of popularity every now and then. With that said they're probably one of the best threads /jp/ still has left right now.

To argue about it now would be pretty retarded considering the state of the board. That isn't to say that these threads are good either, they're deplorably shit compared to what has come before. It is just a case of the rest of the board being so much worse.

>>7325854
If you read some of the recent threads you would know that wasn't the case.

There have been times when this was true, but mostly for the draw threads, and those posters never seemed to last very long.

>>7325859
>>7325876
Post something that one of those faggots drew for the community and not whatever shitty fanbase he/she identifies himself with.

>>7325886
Despite the fact that they don't exist to serve you, a lot of the drawfags took requests anyway. If you really want something specific, you can draw it for yourself.

>>7325886
Are you seriously posting a question like that in a thread about reviving and old OC project with a shit ton of OC made by drawfags for the community?

You really must be a retard. I can't see how they could score any points with external and unrelated communities with content specifically made for a /jp/ project.

>>7325886
But the drawfags and their shitty fanbases are part of the community.

Generic OC drawthreads are generally shit!... there, I said it... here are the reasons.

1. BIASED, why is it that works from some of the better know drawfags (like me) always dissapear without a trace in those threads? Answer, OP is hurt and can't and won't accept any OC that surpasses his/her works and resorts to reporting to get them removed...

2. CIRCLEJECRKING, while this is basically the essence of OC threads... the /jp/ OC threads are really notorious for over the top circle jerking, ego stroking and narcism... and not a single one with feedback from the community... I may be jerk and a shitposter, but at least I listen... of course, not all advise is good so you'll have to use your judgement...

I'm in no place or position to dictate what they want to do in their thread so I generally just leave it to them... though from time to time I still drop by for courtesy visits but always get the usual treatment... (see 1)

>>7325890
>Despite the fact that they don't exist to serve you

Except they do. You autists need to get over this servile attitude you have towards self-proclaimed "artists"; If they're going to come here and fish for attention, then they better damn well do what we, the community, want them to do. The ones that don't like it and try to force their terrible fucking taste in franchises on us can go back to the obscurity of their hugboxes.

It's as simple as that. We're the ones in control; not them.

>>7325910
See, this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The first couple ideas for the grotesque abortion that was Warehouse didn't feature the character in your drawing there. It was only after some deviantart kid demanded that they include his "kawaii desu yo ne" version of a shitty 3d trap as one of the conditions for his involvement in the project that it reared its ugly, ambiguously gendered head in the threads. Most cases are less pronounced, obviously, but that's generally what happens when you pander to insecure, talentless pieces of shit that harbor pretenses at being Bohemians, despite being creatively bankrupt.

>>7325977
Oh Mugen, if reporting actually did anything then 75% of the posts on /jp/ now would have already been deleted.

>>7325984
>Except they do.
They are members of /jp/ just like anyone else - they are going to post what they like, and frequently it turns out that other posters, if not the "entire community," also enjoys their presence. They're not here to serve you any more than I am, and I'm sure as fuck not here to cater to your whims.

>>7325984
Nobody from deviant-art made such demands for their involvement in the project. That's just you going all paranoid and nuts over some imagined conspiracy.

The drawfag that did that picture stated they didn't have the time to be working on the project for real but didn't mind doing some concepts.

The only drawfag that really pushed characters in there was Messy Drawfriend who kept pushing his homosexual character and reverse trap twin sister to be included.

>>7326003
>I'm sure as fuck not here to cater to your whims.

I agree, but you aren't making threads with the title /jp/ OC and then turning around and using them as a soapbox for your own shit.

>>7326019
Is that inherently a bad thing if the only person producing OC is them?

Otherwise it's just thread hijacking which isn't necessarily exclusive to OC threads. People on /jp/ should be more supportive of their actual community regardless of the shit taste, rather than supporting all the spam going on lately.

>>7326019
The general drawthreads I've never paid too much close attention to, but I haven't really noticed much attention whoring from the part of the thread starter (I'm not even sure it's consistently the same person). And I don't find anything wrong with keeping up a general-type thread for all of it anyway.

Wow, someone is really mad that someone drew fanart of a series he doesn't like.

>>7325977
OPs of a thread can't delete posts, you fucking retard. You shit gets deleted because the mods don't want you here you annoying, attention whoring faggot. And also your artwork is SHIT. While you know the technical stuff, your style is the worst generic westerner-trying-to-be-kawaii-wapanese-animu-artist-style I have ever seen. Please die.

>>7326096
>OPs of a thread can't delete posts, you fucking retard.
Please, before you get more angry please re-read my post so you can have a better understanding of what I'm... implying... then you can post a revision of your comment...

>>7326104
Maybe if your english wouldn't be so shitty I'd understand you better.

>>7326096
>generic westerner-trying-to-be-kawaii-wapanese-animu-artist-style
It's funny because mugen isn't even Western.

>>7326104
So when are you going to stop being lazy and finish some Warehouse backgrounds?

>>7326110
That doesn't change the fact that he draws like that.

>>7326110
>generic westerner-trying-to-be-kawaii-wapanese-animu-artist-style

It really should have been
>generic poor-asian-trying-to-smuggle-onions-kawaii-animu-artist-style

Alright I got it. A VN about nothing.

>>7326130
It is an epic tale about the struggles faced by a group of talentless losers trying to achieve their dreams and overcome reality.

>>7326117
Doesn't that warehouse have a tad too much light?

>>7326427
You should have seen the other renders.

>Buy a huge decommissioned warehouse to use as a makeshift dwelling
>Find out it's an old fertilizer factory
>Rather than shitting and pissing everywhere, we shit and piss in the huge vat in the middle of the room and produce homemade fertilizer
>We occasionally sell the fertilizer to get money to pay for food and the odd PC upgrade
>Meanwhile, we find a way to leech off electricity and water without having to pay a dime
>We go on like that until we reach a state of relative financial stability
>Once reached, we go about finding would-be programmers who live in the surrounding area. We'll use the excess money to hire them in secrecy and bring them to our warehouse-headquarters to work overnight.
>One of the contract stipulation will be that he must relieve himself in the vat. It's going to be a hard sell, but eventually somebody will accept it for the love of money.
>More programmers = More fertilizer = More money = Better equipment and more programmers
>In 10 years time, we'll come out of our woodworks and become the best VN developers in [warehouse's location] and the world too
>When our sons (which we fathered by impregnating high-class female models) will ask us how we got so rich, we'll tell them the hard-truth story in front of their faces
>My expression when the expressions

>Buy a huge decommissioned warehouse to use as a makeshift dwelling
>Find out it's an old fertilizer factory
>Rather than shitting and pissing everywhere, we shit and piss in the huge vat in the middle of the room and produce homemade fertilizer
>We occasionally sell the fertilizer to get money to pay for food and the odd PC upgrade
>Meanwhile, we find a way to leech off electricity and water without having to pay a dime
>We go on like that until we reach a state of relative financial stability
>Once reached, we go about finding would-be programmers who live in the surrounding area. We'll use the excess money to hire them in secrecy and bring them to our warehouse-headquarters to work overnight.
>One of the contract stipulation will be that he must relieve himself in the vat. It's going to be a hard sell, but eventually somebody will accept it for the love of money.
>More programmers = More fertilizer = More money = Better equipment and more programmers
>In 10 years time, we'll come out of our woodworks and become the best VN developers in [warehouse's location] and the world too
>When our sons (which we fathered by impregnating high-class female models) will ask us how we got so rich, we'll tell them the hard-truth story in front of their faces
>My expression when the expressions

>>7327136
Who are you quoting?

Also, stop bumping dead threads in a desperate bid for attention.

I could be the classical pianist with a procrastination problem. The manager of the project always motivates him, but it seems he's back to his ways of needlessly prolonging everything.

It'd work, because it's true. 11 years of classical piano, but i'm NEET with nothing going for him. I could actually make music for the VN, too.

>>7327266
>I could actually make music for the VN, too.
Theoretically.

>>7327510
Yea, i'd probably flake. I swear i'm bipolar. I will work for days on something; lose all hope, one day out of nowhere and just give up on it and let all my work go to waste. I do that with everything in life.

>>7327522
Can you at least make a sample?

I would like the thank the kind anon who sent me this last night via email. I've sent a quick follow up message and will be sending a more detailed on in an hour per your request.

>>7329528
That actually looks pretty good. Are you sure it's not a trace or a shop?

>>7329528
Hong Meiling + M. Bison?

>>7329706
This is the original evolution chart of her character over the past couple of years. This most recent drawing was sent to me anonymously via email after I posted in this thread. I hope this anonymous artist emails me again, I'd love to work with them.

I'll tell you what happened OP. 5 minutes in one guy retreated to his "room" which consisted of a curtain hung across the corner of the warehouse and an old mattress to fap. Everyone else realized the flaw in their plan and it broke up right there.

>>7329528
Touko guy?

>>7325984
but i don't do it for attention. otherwise i'd get a trip and a name.

i just post my crappy zepar porn so that the 2 or 3 other people who like him had anything to fap to if they found it good enough.

And another half-baked /jp/ idea bites the dust.

>>7317005
> Those were some retarded threads. I hope the faggots that made them starved to death so there' no chance of them polluting the gene pool.

>implying they would ever get a chance to spread their genes

>>7333293
Get out of /jp/.

Is there a rizon channel for all this?

>>7333323
Nope. There have been though, does something like #/jp/project still exist?

>>7333323
irc.rizon.net, #jp-devel