/jp/ - Otaku Culture

They are objectively weaker

>>8888468
no

Yes, because they actually have decent masters.

Saber - Identical, Master incompatibility causes severe damage to Arturia's Luck stat. Arturia with Avalon, Arturia under Tohsaka Rin, and Black Saber all beat Kiritsugu's Saber out.
Lancer - Objectively weaker. Cuchulainn is considerably superior and only restrained by Kotomine.
Archer - Gilgamesh's only advantage is Enuma Elish and that Archer never plays seriously because his goals do not line up with winning the holy grail. UBW is decisively superior to Gate of Babylon.
Rider - About the same. Medusa's eyes are phenomenal and Pegasus is a powerful phantasmal beast.
Assassin - Nobody cares about Assassin. 4th Hassan is useless offensively, 5th Hassan is weak but not utterly useless, so there's that. Sasaki Kojirou sucks anyway, but is still superior to 4th Hassan.
Berserker - Herakles is gimped and still stronger than Lancelot.

Really the only one here is Caster, and Medea is STRONGER than Gilles, but Medea is also a complete buffoon and thus massively less effective.

>>8888500
Sick doobz, bro.

I always considered Berserker obscenely strong, but then again I stopped reading it at the time where his mask was shattered in a parking lot.

I don't know how saber beat him, but I like to think it was some bullshit plot point rather than a fair fight, in which case Berserker could even annihilate FS/N Berserker.

>>8888484

Really, only two of them.

Ryuunosuke: non-magus child of a dead magi line
Waver Velvet: shit-tier magus
Kariya: worms for blood
Kotomine: Does not care about Assassin
Tokiomi: only a medium-tier magus, can only get by with begging and kneeling to Gilgamesh


Kiritsugu also gimps Saber by destroying her vital Luck stat, and he's not a good magus, even if he's a good warrior.


So yeah, Kayneth is the only seriously good magus on this field, and he also had the weakest heroic spirit, barring Hassan. The only reason Diarmuid even holds up is because Kayneth is powerful.

>>8888497
didn't Kotomine kill 5th war assassin?

>>8888501
He seems like he'd be pretty ridiculously overpowered if he was sane.

>>8888497
>UBW is decisively superior to Gate of Babylon.
That's why UBW is stated to be all but useless against regular servants in F/SN, right?
And that's why Archer managed to kill Berserker while Gil got turned into pulp by him, right?

>>8888501

Arturia is a superior swordsman to Lancelot. However, she stopped fighting back when she saw his face.
Lancelot dies mid-fight because Kariya died mid-fight.

>>8888508

Incorrect, he loses nothing from being Berserked, only gaining power boosts. Eternal Arms Mastery prevents any of his skills from degrading. Without the Berserker Boost, he's much weaker.

>>8888507

No, he only pinned him to a tree while he exorcized Zouken. Dark Sakura eats Hassan later.

>>8888497
>Berserker - Herakles is gimped and still stronger than Lancelot.


Lancelot > Gil
Gil > Herakles
so
Lancelot >>Herakles

>>8888513

>That's why UBW is stated to be all but useless against regular servants in F/SN, right?

That line only referred to Shirou, who doesn't know UBW as extensively as Archer.

>And that's why Archer managed to kill Berserker while Gil got turned into pulp by him, right?

Herakles had to defend Ilya in that fight, he literally was unable to dodge and weave. He's a fast and powerful opponent, but Gilgamesh made it so Berserker had to take it all to defend Ilya. Even then, he required Enkidu to hold Berserker down.
Archer probably did no such thing and does not have a god-binding chain.

>>8888519
Are you even trying?

>>8888497

Iskandar's reality marble is much more powerful than Medusa's abilities

And Archer in lost against Berserker in f/sn fate route while Gilgamesh stomped Berserker in ubw route.

>>8888519

>Lancelot > Gil

Not true, he just counters Gate of Babylon.

>Gil > Herakles

Not true, Herakles was forced to tank instead of fighting freely.

>so Lancelot >>Herakles

Nasuverse does not work that way. Counters do not counter other counters.

>>8888888
awwyeah

>>8888519
>Lancelot > Gil
But that's wrong.
Lancelot was getting overwhelmed by the NP barrage from GoB before Gil had opened it to the maximum.

If Gil wanted to absolutely seriously win, every other servant we've seen would get raped up the ass by him, most likely at the same time.

>>8888527

>Iskandar's reality marble is much more powerful than Medusa's abilities

But harmless to Medusa's eyes. In a fight between the two Riders, Iskander is defeated instantly as he cannot resist Cybele.

An EX rank skill is not "more powerful" than A++ rank skills. EX rank is "off the charts", and not necessarily higher than the chart. Going left of the chart applies too.
Ionioi Hetairoi is EX because it defies calculation by bringing more Servants into the field. This does not necessarily benefit you in any way, as some opponents can just spit in the face of mass-combat. (Medusa, Arturia, Gilgamesh are among these.)

>And Archer in lost against Berserker in f/sn fate route while Gilgamesh stomped Berserker in ubw route.
See >>8888523

Don't forget the Arondight buff. With it drawn Lancelot actually matches or surpasses Herakles in every stat other than Mana. The only argument that could be made is regarding God Hand.

>>8888539
You are right

>In a fight between the two Riders
But I don't think there should comparison only when servants fight 1v1. Reality marble is anti army while Medusa's eyes are anti-unit.

i.e. In 1v1 lancer from f/sn would definitely win because his NP is superior in 1v1 fights. That doesn't automatically mean the one who would win is more powerful.

>>8888550

I'm just saying that Ionioi Hetairoi is a move that's hard to attribute to one's strengths. Without it, Medusa is a superior combatant, with Bellerophon being just as good as Gordius Wheel and Cybele allowing her to beat Alexander out.
The army of the king isn't necessarily powerful. It's unbeatable or utterly unhelpful depending on the opponent's strengths.

>>8888555
Well my point was that you should compare overall attributes and abilities, not just when servants would fight on 1v1.

Yes Rider's army is counterable, like many other NPs but that doesn't make it weak.

>>8888580

And I say that Medusa's stats and skills, particularly combining her extreme Agility with Cybele to slow down powerful enemies, which is precisely what she did to hold her ground against Black Saber, an opponent that outclasses nearly everyone, is superior to Alexander's, who relies on Gordius Wheel and Ionioi Hetairoi, lacking in other skills. Gordius Wheel is slower than Bellerophon and of the same rank, but beyond that, Medusa's eyes are just massively strong no matter who she is facing.


It's an all purpose superpower vs. a situational superpower.

I think only Berserker and Lancer are stronger in Fate/Stay night. Saber is identical of course.

>>8888523
I don't know who valid argument this is but atleast in UBW movie Berserker isn't tanking and protecting Ilya from Gilgamesh's attacks. Attacks are targeted to Berserker.

http://youtu.be/kpZiQVaHxVw

>>8888632

>I don't know who valid argument this is but atleast in UBW movie

In a word, invalid.

Fortunately, all the masters in Zero are far far stupider.

I'm not sure how they managed to be stupider than mostly a bunch of teenagers, but somehow, they managed it.

>>8888655
Nope.

>>8888656
Urobuchi can't write characters for shit.

>>8888655
>>8888656

Some yes, some no.

Tokiomi and Kiritsugu treat the war as it is with proper planning. Tokiomi makes a fatal mistake in trusting Kotomine with his life, but using him as a subordinate worked well for most of the war.

Kayneth doesn't treat Heavens Feel as a proper war, thinking it's some sort of magus duel, and thus he never fares well.
Waver is sort of the same but at least he has the mind to lay low and not attract the attention of other masters. And while not directly of his own choice, he always stays in the safest location: right beside his powerful Servant.

Ryuunosuke is insane. Pass.

Kotomine didn't want to win at the start but ultimately got into it.

Kariya never should have even been in the war, but his only real mistake is headhunting Tokiomi out of spite. Otherwise he handles himself well, despite being hideously weak.

>>8888632
UBW movie is shit, it doesn't show when Berserker breaks the chains and he also takes much more hits before falling.

Aren't there enough of these types of threads on /a/? Get the fuck out already.

>>8888651
Thank you for taking/finding that screenshot. I knew I shouldn't have trusted Deen.

But I still think Gilgamesh is stronger than Archer Emiya.

>>8888941
I seem to remember that canonically, Emiya can't Trace Enuma Elish. I suppose that would make Gilgamesh stronger if he wasn't such an arrogant douchenut.

>>8888516

>Arturia is a superior swordsman to Lancelot.

nigga what

This is nothing like my Britain legends

>>8889064
If I recall correctly, King Aurthur didn't have tits either (unless he was sedentary and flabby).

Type-Moon just... does its thing, and says "fuck you" to everything else.

>>8889085
Yes and Hercules should be immortal.

Emiya is decisively weaker than Gilgamesh. While UBW is stronger than Gate of Babylon, Ea outright stomps over anything Emiya has. Gate of Babylon also has far more versatile things in it, such as Enkidu and that spaceship he threw away.

Though Gil got significantly weaker in 5th, as it fucked with his personality and as a result made him even more a arrogant fool than he was.

So I'd think it goes a little something like 4th Gil > 5th serious Gil > Emiya > 5th Gil

>>8889197
Fate/Extra Gil > All Gils

>>8889213
Gilgamesh is in Fate/extra?

I thought it was just Archer and robin hood.

Boxing >> Servants

>>8889224

He will be in Fate/Extra CCC. So far the only relevant information is that the PC will have to kneel to him at some point.

>>8889238
Fate/extra CCC? Didn't know they were making a sequel. Includes Gilgamesh and a Saber bride costume. Oh jesus.

I'm guessing it's going to be on psp again? Didn't play the first Fate/extra since it was PSP only, but I will have to play Fate/extra CCC.

Nasu said Diarmuid wins against Cu if they fought, because his Master was just that superior.
Gilgamesh is also that much superior against his 5th version, his weapons are more complete and he hasn't been feeding on sub-quality prana for a long time.

Everyone else is either the same or weaker.

>>8889250

>Nasu said Diarmuid wins against Cu if they fought

C-c-citation needed

You can't just say "Nasu said" and run away

Anshin'in can beat Servants. Discuss.

>>8889271
Character Material 3. Interview question about if both Lancers fought each other.

>If Cu Chulainn and Diarmuid, both of the same Lancer class, fought each ...
paste that on google

>>8889250
>Nasu said Diarmuid wins against Cu if they fought
I think most underestimate Diarmuid. He was the one who could have defeated Saber. Also he broke his second weapon and lost some of his potential.

What about assassin and caster? I think 4th assasin is definitely stronger than 5th one (not true assasin, he is kind different).

Also I think 4th caster is definitely stronger than 5th caster. 5th caster gets carried because of teamwork with her master.

Only real question which one is superior Lancelot or Hercules?

>>8889275
Nothing to discuss, she can beat everything in the Nasuverse.

>>8889275
Dude, she's like older than the universe itself. Have you seen the list of abilities she has? She's likely unbeatable as heck.

F/Z servant are more powerful than the F/SN ones.
Gilgamesh with Tokiomi as master is the most powerful, followe by 4th Berserker which is a beast even with Kariya.
Saber is better if with Tohsaka, but that happens only in 1 route out of 3.
The others are more similar, but they best servant are all in Fate/Zero.

>>8889361
Medusa can beat Alexander with ease.

>>8888519
>Never played rock-paper-scissors

>>8889361

F/E servant are more powerful than F/Z ones.
Gilgamesh with the MC as master is the most powerful,followed by Berserker which is a beast even with Gatou.
Saber is better if with the MC but that only happen in 1 route out of 4
The other are more similar, but they best servant are all in Fate/Extra

>>8889878
Lame as it is, this.
F/E Servants for having LOL BERSERKER ARCUEID and LOL MONSTER SHIKI, are by far the strongest simply for that alone. F/Z has Gil if you really want to count, but GIl countered entirely by Archer from F/SN, and every other F/SN servant is stronger then it's F/Z counterpart. I don't understand how Gae Bolga would ever lose to Diarmuid.

>>8889994

Monster Shiki isn't a servant though. She's just a fancy anomaly in the system.

>>8889994
You forgot Lu Bu.

I'm not sure how his in-game self is since I haven't played fate/extra, but he was the most powerful human to ever live.

>>8890177
weak little chinaman can't be the most powerful human ever lived nerd

>>8890177

Lubu's like the 3rd strongest Servant in FE if you go by Combat mechanics. Only topped by Gawain and Lancer in that order. He could probably even beat Berserker Arcueid as she doesn't have any kind of Revival technique.

>>8890184
>Nerd
>/jp/
Anyway.

The ancient chinese were some of the strongest humans in history. No human nowdays could match them, as physical strength and skill doesn't matter nearly as much as it did back then.

>>8890208
> strongest ENEMY Servant
dhurp fixed. Player Servants make everyone eat shitWhen the game stops railroading at least

Ado Edem can kill every servant at once.

Discuss.

>>8890236
Yeah like you are the professor in this area.

>>8890236
You must be very new here.

>>8890208
Amusing that Arczerker was the only Servant to give me any issues in Extra. Lancer died the action before his NP and Gawain couldn't even 1-shot Caster with his.

>>8893150
I don't see you naming anyone else who's stronger.

>>8893169
I meant using nerd as a insult on /jp/ means that he clearly hasn't been here long. Pretty much the same thing you're thinking probably, but must have misunderstood me.