/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Eh, I know hira and most kana, a few kanji and some phrases (some less useful than others).
I learn a bit by reading e-books in my spare time but I mostly pick up words and do some research using Wakan.

>>8717

Started learning by myself yesterday... Image related.

I was quite disturbed how I didn't learn much after 7 years of anime especially considering how I picked up German after two years or so by watching TV. I only know basic words and phrases, and I generaly understand what's going on, but mothing more.

I hope learning these godforsaken runes and reading doujins will get something moving.

Gomen nasia nihon go-ga hanase masen?

(^0^)

I'm in my third year of studying Japanese at college..... I don't have any websites at hand for basic Japanese grammar, etc. But here are some links that might prove useful.

http://guidetojapanese.org/particles.html
Helps with some basic particles.

http://japanese.libsyn.com/
Podcast that teaches Japanese phrases (I suppose, haven't really checked this one out).

http://pinpondasshu.blogspot.com/
Podcast done by a couple of my dormmates. They only did three episodes, but they're pretty good for slang phrases and whatnot.

http://www.yosida.com/en/kanji.php?level=4&page=1
Great Kanji resource; goes by level of the JLPT; shows stroke order, pronunciation, and meaning.

Hopefully this'll help some people. But now I have a Japanese test to study for!

>>11180
Oh fuck this shit. He's back.

>>11286
isn't it sad ;_;

>>11400
I completely agree with you.

>>11533
The ban said BANNED FROM ALL BOARDS.

Have you sucked Moot's dick perchance?

Oh, this thread is still alive.

By the way, my first language is Japanese and I'd like to improve my English. Could someone help me by pointing out my engrish/errors or am I asking in a totally wrong place? I'd be happy to correct your post in Japanese.

Thanks!

3 semesters in college (which is like a year and a half). Didn't learn ANYTHING. By the third semester all my peers were like semi-fluent as if they had YEARS of study under their belt. They could talk to each other in moonspeak and all that, but I didn't know shit they said, and up to then I had been getting straight As in all my exams. I was all, "WTF, how did they learn Japanese so good and so fast??"

Anyways, I got so incredibly discouraged and dropped out of them Jap classes, I obviously wasn't learning anything. I don't know how you fags can say you even learn anything by just watching animu.

inb4weeaboo

I've got the Kana down, too lazy to learn much else. At the very least it helps me read engrish on some games before they get localized.

>inb4weeaboo
That word has no meaning in this wonderful new paradise.

Audio files for things/sayings
http://japanese.about.com/library/blphrase.htm

Just started Japanese classes this week. I knew hiragana, katakana and some kanji from being a weeaboo like the rest of us here, as well as a decent amount of vocab. Basically I'm going to coast the course. But I do plan on taking more advanced classes as I go through my degree, so it'll improve. Eventually.

... and yet all I can think is that I'll probably waste my time translating doujins :(

>>8590
Oh shit, you're right.

6 years of anime and 1 year of high school japanese = Kana + very limited kanji knowledge (20ish) + basic phrases and words

Oh, and:

www.guidetojapanese.org

Katakana and hiragana is easy to memorize.
Kanji on the other hand, is hard to learn.

4 years of anime -> I can translate doujins, but that's about it.

So far:

500/1945 Kanji Memorized

I've been studying it for a year or so at Uni, so far I have the kanas, many basic gramatical structures, and some kanji I've learned myself at home

>>8590
We're like, the polite, new and improved non-anime and manga version of /a/.

>>8622
Christ, I remember getting over that hump. Like when you realized you could type without looking at the keyboard. It just happens gradually, one bit at a time, until you understand a good chunk of what's going on & being said.

>>8651
And no more closet-fags!

Moot better not take this away from us ;_;

I know kana and enough kanji to read a basic art site, manga, etc. I'm probaby not good enough to have conversations in Japanese though.

Anyone else confused like hell about conjugation?

>>8631
Have you tried the JLPT?

>>8674
Not yet.

Heheh.. i got a few web pages down on introduction to the japanese language..haha. Man i wish they had lessons/classes in my country :( I'd love to learn this language.

>>8655

This is where I'm at (anon who just started classes this week here). I'm trying to stay quiet in my class (well, I'm not that outgoing anyway) because I don't want to come off as a giant wapanese narutard faggot, but there's so many things that I've simply learnt from anime, manga, visual novels etc. that it surprises me..

I took a year of Japanese, enough to get into kanji.

I can't read or speak a damn thing of it. I didn't understand all the weird grammar rules, and frankly I don't have time to fucking learn them.

Also, the hardest part of any language is picking up vocabulary.

Handy Dandy Kanji Crib-Sheet
http://tangorin.com/elements

>>8549
>Hirigana

...

>>8690
You're doing it right

>>8690
Don't go all wapanese.
This I warn you.

About 2500 kanji to varying degrees. I might remember them when in in context and such, but I would be hard pressed to remember exact meanings, all the readings and writing them straight from memory.

>>8690
Good

>>8613
And for offline viewing
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/jp_grammar_guide.pdf

>>8549
Enough to read manga, play visual novels and watch anime without any translation help.

I don't know fuck-all Japanese aside from Hiragana and Katakana.

>>8736

This is something I most definitely want to avoid. I might be a complete otaku at home, but I don't want to be known for that at university. The teacher asked whether anyone already knew hiragana/katakana (few hands, including mine, went up), and later someone sitting near to me asked if I'd taken Japanese before or something. I kinda just nervously laughed it off, "ah, it's a bit of a long story..."

Learned some very random phrases from anime.

For example, picked up wakarimashta watching ah my goddess.

>>8777
Learned baka saru from Gensomaden Saiyuki.

But learning from anime and manga wouldn't be enough.
You need to take actual lessons if you wanna speak Japanese correctly.

Speaking: fluent (5 years of college study, then 4 years of using it as my main language). Speak primarily in Japanese, can talk about any topic for hours, DJ a radio show in Japanese, have no communication problems at all and a fairly good accent. Can speak kansai dialect and a local dialect well.

Reading: can read most daily life stuff no problem (directions, websites, articles, etc), can read most comics without using a dictionary much or at all, can read easy books with a dictionary, difficult books with a lot of dictionary use.

Writing: write emails in Japanese everyday, keep a diary in Japanese, write letters in Japanese, etc.

>>8813
>kansai dialect
Delicious.

>>8813
When did you start learning?

>>8800

Anime is good for picking up stuff subconsciously, training your ear, learning conversational/non-polite Japanese, and learning what the language sounds like IF you already have a base knowledge of the language. Otherwise it's not that useful.

>>8549
Level 4, am about to take the Level 3 Proficiency Exam this December.

Kanji's a pain especially when you know there's a thousand or so of them for basic use. I still have to get used to the other particles (~no ni, ~no kuse ni, etc.), the ~tari verb form and other verb forms from what I already know.

Three years of intensive college Japanese. Next month I'm starting my year abroad in Kansai.

I dunno. Enough to read everything I want to and watch movies (I don't watch anime anymore), but I never really speak/write it myself (although I can write - as in with pen and paper - a lot of kanji if I make the effort).

I also feel like such faggot for spending a couple of years studying this language for no good reason that I refuse to talk about it anymore and everyone I know thinks I failed and gave up. Generally I don't even mention it on the internets, except in the occasional light/visual novel thread.

>>8813
What would you estimate? 4 years of immersion = ? years of study? 5? 10? 20? 100?

I failed １級.

...I do take university classes in moonspeak, though, give presentations and take questions in moonspeak, and get along at arubaito without problems. So screw the JLPT.

>>8846
When I was in high school my parents bought me some Japanese computer program and I learned hiragana that way. I started to study formally the first year of college and ended up majoring in it. Having a Japanese girlfriend for a lot of my college years was a big help for my speaking, but I studied a lot too.

>>8885

Whereabouts? I know the Kansai area well.

>>8885
This.

It's this kind of thing I envy so much.

Currently in second year of Japanese in college. Theoretically I should know more than 500 kanji by now, but I can probably only write 25-50 off the top of my head, reading's a little easier but I really need to practice more. I can read a lot of things with the help of my DS's kanji dictionary (so much faster than looking it up in a traditional dictionary) but slang and colloquial speech throw me off pretty easily.
As far as speaking goes, I think I have a pretty decent accent but I'm still a little slow on conjugating verbs and my vocabulary is pretty severely limited.

I've been considering applying for study-abroad at Aoyama after 3rd year, but spending a whole year in Tokyo is a little scary.

>>8917

A lot of Japanese would fail Ikkyu as well. It's pretty tough.

>>8910

5 years of college study before setting foot in Japan. Now closing in on 4 years of immersion, but I could speak fairly well when I got here. After about a year and a half of immersion I was quite fluent, now I'm just trying to bring my reading up to a higher level which takes a lot more work than just bullshitting with your girlfriend(s).

For those studying Japanese in college/university, do you know anything about exchange programs? Are they worth the time? Do they get decent amounts of credit back for your degree? And can you study anything apart from the language while you're over there? I'd like to keep up with the rest of my degree as well...

>>8969

I'd go for it. If you want to improve your language skills it will do wonders as well as being a blast. I love Kansai but there's just SO MUCH in Tokyo.

>>8995
Yeah, I'm curious as well.

omg.. you guys are making it sound like learning japanese is very very very hard :(

>>9035
learning any language to a functional point is pretty hard.
Unless you're under the age of 5.

>>8995

Personally I'd stop worrying so much about your credits and just do it. Most likely you'll never have a chance like this for the rest of your life. College is the time to do stuff like that. I guarantee you'll never forget it, and it will probably do your character a lot of good. And I'm sure you can actually get some credits while you're doing it. Plus, from a career prospective, showing that you lived abroad for a while looks good to employers. It tells them you can deal with new situations, cultures, change, and have made an effort to broaden your knowledge of the world.

>>9044
Now you've got me dreaming. And I told myself I'd keep away from doing stuff like that.

>>9035

Learning Japanese takes effort, but so does anything if you want to do it well. If it's something you happen to enjoy then you'll just learn it. College courses are designed to teach you what you need to know and work your ability up over time. Just do the homework, pass the tests, try to practice whenever possible, and hey, guess what, you're learning! Self-study can only take you so far, but it's necessary after a certain point.

>>9035
It is.

>>9035
it's not that it's hard, it's that it takes real effort, just like any other language. watching animu and reading a tutorial on the internets won't cut it.

take a fucking class, or go live abroad if you can. immersion is the best way to learn, because you're forced to use the language every day.

>>9035
Time and method and any language can be within anyones grasp.

>>9080
>>try to practice whenever possible
This is the hard part especially when everyone in my workplace is speaking either French, Mandarin, or Spanish.

>>9035
Easier that Arabic.

Been studying it for over a year now, and I love it. But I fucking love learning langauges. I want to learn Arabic after my Japanese reaches an acceptable level, it seeems just as fucking interesting.

>>9071

Why? Not to get all philosophical, but what are you waiting for? If you don't go on crazy adventures around the world while you are young, you never well. There's plenty of time to sit around worrying about your job, kids, and mortgage when you are 45. There are people willing to pay you good money to take an easy as cake job or study abroad program to see the world for yourself and be blown away by all the cool stuff and unforgettable experiences to be had.

>>9118

Well, there's many ways to practice. I was lucky to have a lot of Japanese friends in college, but you can chat with Japanese people with Yahoo, read Japanese manga every day, watch more Japanese movies, etc.

>>9118

Do a bit at home, then. Spend an hour or two just after you have dinner, and get into a habit of it. And you'll improve.

http://www.kecl.ntt.co.jp/mtg/goitokusei/test-sheet1.html

Here is a site that estimates your Japanese vocabulary size. Just check all words you know, click 推定開始 and you can get your score.

FYI, the following is the average score of native Japanese speakers.

Elementary school child: 5k~20k,
Junior high school student: 20k~40k,
High shcool student: 40k~45k,
College/university student: 45k_50k.

>>9137

This ends up as garbled $BCN$C$F$$$kC18l$r%-type things for me. And yes, Japanese is installed on my PC, etc. How am I doing it wrong?

>>9123
Well, I hate Weeaboos. And wouldn't going abroad to Japan make me weeaboo? Well, now that I think about it, you really could go abroad without being weeaboo, if you actually want to do stuff besides anime and manga.

>>9137
Forgot to post my score. I'm Japanese and got only 39100 ;_;

>>9155
If you're using firefox, go to view -> character encoding -> Japanese.

>>9165

I never watch anime, and usually just read manga to pass the time (like Japanese do). I have no interest in otaku culture, but there's so much else here to experience! Anime is just one little nook.

>>9190
Good to know. You know, throughout the years, I've shifted from liking Japan for Anime/Manga and more for everything else they have to offer. A/M is just a plus. You know, I think I will check out if there's a way for me to go abroad.

>>9137
Is a little selection of 50 words really accurate enough to determine your vocabulary though?

>>9185

Man, thanks a lot. A lot of Japanese websites randomly fuck up for me like that, and I never figured out how to fix it.

I've studied it for three years, I know all Hiragana and Katakana, I can write all of hiragana, when writing katakana I get confused. I can speak short sentences, I have an okay vocab. I can understand more than I can speak, but I could manage in Japan. Not a weeaboo by any means.

>>9137
I'm sure I've seen English versions of this kind of thing that give university level as 25,000 or something. Japanese people have bigger vocabularies?

I'm at the advanced Japanese course at my uni. I know both alphabets and about 50-100 kanji.

I just learn grammar, nouns and verbs from anime a lot, but I seem to forget them the next day. I can read around 40 basic and easy kanji. Does this make me qualified to study more?

>>9224

25,000? Hardly. That amount is added to the language EVERY YEAR. There's like 600,000 words in the unabridged dictionaries. I've heard that an average college student knows like 150,000+.

>>9224
Probably it is matter of the definition for "one word." If you take, say, "friend" and "friendly" as two distinct words, your vocabulary size will get much larger.

So, any advice on conjugation?

>>9213

http://www.kecl.ntt.co.jp/mtg/goitokusei/goi-test.html

If you are interested in it, you can find a detailed description on the test and other useful information on Japanese language. It's written in Japanese but, reading through the documents, I think it is fairly reliable. At least, it is made by a semi-governmental institute and based on statistics, linguistics and such.

>>9425
What problems are you having, specifically?

>>9190
I want to know what score you would get on >>9137

>>9425

Japanese conjugation is really easy. There are only three verb types, and 99% of verbs fall into two of them. Just memorize the te-form* and you'll be fine for anything since there are NO exceptions to conjugation rules.

*te-form as in:
食べる⇒食べて
飲む⇒飲んで
動く⇒動いて
する⇒して
etc.

You need to know the te-form without even thinking about it. After that pretty much any conjugation problems are solved. A quick searched brought up this list, which could be memorized fairly easily:
http://japanese.about.com/bl_verbs.htm

>>9790

Memorize this table:
http://japanese.about.com/bl_verbs.htm

>>9652
Well, frankly I'm entirely confused on the entire thing. I've read a few sites, and managed to make myself completely lost on anything related to conjugation. It'd help a lot if someone just showed me a few verbs in a conjugation table.

>>9737
May I ask you if you could take the test >>9137 so I can set my goal? It would be very helpful if we could know your score.

bu/mu/nu = ~nde
u/tsu/ru = ~tte
ku = ~ite
suru = shite

I forget how the rest of it goes

i'm going to my first jap lesson in 2hours

>>9790

Memorize this table:
http://japanese.about.com/bl_verbs.htm

They are all verbs you should know by now anyway. Once you know how to conjugate from each dictionary form ending by memorizing this list, you'll be able to conjugate every single Japanese verb in existence with ease.

>>9823
it's an exception LOL

>>9737
Why is it suru > shite?

Wait, so what's the -te?

>>9823
one of the two irregular verbs. アホ

>>9820

Mina-san, mina-san,
Te-form wo oboemashou.
U-tsu-ru -- tte
Bu-mu-nu -- nde
Ku -- ite
Gu -- ite
Su -- shite

Why is kanji so easy to learn?

>>9823


There are only TWO exceptions for Japanese verbs, which are for suru (do) and kuru (come). They are both verbs that are used so often that you'll have them memorized before you know it. Other than that ALL verbs follow the same formula.

>>9839
The te-form is used in a lot of conjugations, and where there are some variations like passive, etc, but once you have the te-form down any other verb form can be memorized in minutes. All Japanese verbs follow the same conjugation pattern, aside from humble/respect forms that you don't really need to know in most cases.

Basically, just memorize the te-form conjugations and your worries will be over for the time being.

>>9823
Welcome to Japanese irregular verbs, my friends. Personally, I found them to be much easier than the faggotry that is Spanish irregular verbs.

Kuru is irregular too.

>>9882
Because you're Chinese?

>>9849
Is that related to ahoge?

>>9864
>Gu -- ide

>>9902
O shit how did you know? Party v&?

I know no Japanese besides hiragana, katakana, and some basic phrases/vocabulary.

So, where should I start if I want to begin learning? I'd rather not take any classes because they move far too slow for me.

>>9909
Ah... oops.
That's right.

>>9905
4chan: the only place where you'll find someone who knows what "ahoge" is but doesn't know the word "aho."

>>9898
Indeed. Espanol Conjugationo era un hijo de bitch.

>>9928
>(^0^)

That weeaboo sentence was bearable. This is not.

>>9928
^_______________________^

>>9905
yeah, refers to the "foolish" in foolish hair

enough to browse 2ch with a little rikaichan help.

>>9959
I'm sure it applies to the weeaboo animu boards too.

>>9928
The, um, girl on the right looks like one of those inflatable dolls.

Question: People were talking about learning just Katakana/Hirigana so they could read Japanese videogames.

Are you saying that video games are actually in english but with Japanese alphabet? I find that unlikely and expect I just misunderstood something, but I'll just try this long shot.

And also, guidetojapanese.org seems pretty good but would people here who speak Japanese and read runes say it's probably a lot better to take classes?

>>9949
What do you want to do with it?

>>9737
Don't make it sound too easy. There's quite a few annoyances in conjugation like いる vs　要る, 寝る vs 練る etc.

>>10007
Katakana helps with RPGs, you won't be able to understand the story, but you can weeaboo read the items/weapons/spells/etc.

>Are you saying that video games are actually in english but with Japanese alphabet? I find that unlikely and expect I just misunderstood something, but I'll just try this long shot.
!
a while ago viddya games didn't have kanji but they were in Japanese
I think the person you're replying to is just saying he uses his limited Japanese to enjoy the game a little before it gets translated (navigate some menus etc.)

Enough to translate things into Japanese for the guys at 2ch (albeit badly and broken. But understandable)

>>10055

Yeah, but once you have the basic structure down it's not that hard to figure out the details. My point is that learning the te/ta form is ESSENTIAL for learning Japanese. It's probably the #1 thing you need to learn for basic grammar. It just comes up again and again and again, so you might as well learn it as soon as possible.

Also, in regard to the game question, if you just learn Katakana and a few common menu words you can get through a lot more than you would think. There is a lot of katakana in Japanese games, and in Japanese society in general. By learning katakana and figuring out the basics of how English is converted to katakana, you immediately learn hundreds or thousands of words.

hiragana and katagana covered, plus a few kanji

I'm able to say some simple requests such as "how much is this" or order McDonalds in Japanese

Ok, another huge thing. I'm completely confused on the difference between は and が (confusion is my forte). When exactly would you use which?

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/about/overview-page

best way to self-learn a language

>>10210
I actually checked out that website a few weeks ago. Can't say I'm buying everything he's saying, but the method he used to learn Kanji seemed interesting. Does anyone here have experience with using Heisig?

>>10203
Explaining that is like trying to explain the difference between "a" and "the" in English.

>>10203
wa is for declaring a subject. ga is for calling attention to a subject (sentences ending with -ne, -yo), question about a subject, answering question about a subject.

>>10203

THAT is a much more difficult question. To completely oversimplify は usually indicates a subject and が usually indicates an object or the subject related to an intransitive verb but there are many exceptions to this. It mainly comes with exposure, as sometimes it's downright confusing.

>>10148
What do you think of honorifics? I heard they're one of the most difficult part of Japanese because not only they consist of irregular words but also it requires a good knowledge of Japan's culture to use them properly.

>>10255
Well fuck. That's great. Sigh, completely different languages are completely different...

>>10238

My friend went through the entire first book of Remembering the Kanji, and I have to say I'm impressed with how quickly he learned so many kanji. It basically boils down to breaking each kanji down to its part (radicals) which are how kanji are made, and coming up with a mnemonic device to remember each one. If I was learning kanji from the start I would use his method, as it is the best in my opinion, much better than rote memorization by far.

>>10238
I've used the heisig method and finished it about 3 months ago. Did 100 a day for two weeks. Now I know the meaning/writing of 2042+ kanji (some I learned after the method on my own)

I have to say, it's amazing for learning new vocabulary. They become easy to remember and rewrite. The readings learn themselves as well. A caveat however is you must review at least once a month, until you can just review jap to jap.

>>10255
Your right, a lot of these confusing exceptions or particles rely on massive input to help you know when to use when.

>>10260

Honorifics/humble forms ARE difficult. They are weird words derived from archaic speech which don't follow the standard rules and using them effective can be tricky. You basically use humble form to lower yourself before someone above you, and honorific form to show respect for that person's actions. The good thing is you only really need to know a handful to get by in almost all situations. desu/masu form will be good enough for most things. I only use honorifics when I write letters, personally, or when I'm talking to a VERY distinguished person.

Sigh, it's so annoying that I can feel, I can touch, I know understanding of these things is just in front of me, but I just can't fucking grab it.

>>8549
Your chart forgot the Hiragana characters ゐ and ゑ, and the Katakana characters ヰ and ヱ, you should be ashamed for not including them.

>>10260
Really, it's all depends on the relationship you have with the person you're speaking. If there's someone that is in a superior position than you, like a boss, you use polite speech. If it's a stranger or acquaintance, use neutral speech. In someone who is younger, or a close friend, below position with you, use causal.

I'm not even getting to the buttfuckery of the type of speech you use on the fucking phone.

>>10354
Why? Can you get away with being a gaikokujin, and they just say shoganaiyona~?

>>10238
If you want a good base for reading/writing I strongly suggest this.

>>10280
100/day for 2 weeks? Im impressed.

>>10354
Thanks. So, it's ok if I use desu/masu form when talking to my fellow worker/chief manager?

>>10428
It'll only reinforce stereotypes. Use the polite speech and you'll impress them.

>>10428
Because it makes you sound like a cunt.

>>10444

I'd say you'd be perfectly fine. No one is going to pissed that you didn't use polite/humble form. They'd probably be impressed if you did, but there's not really a huge need for it. Just being polite/respectful in your manner, not calling yourself ore, and using desu/masu form is polite enough for almost any situation.

Just learn itadaku (for receiving things), which you probably already know from 頂きます, and irrasharu which is the honorific for iru. Like ～さんいっらしゃいますか？ These are used a lot. But stuff like ご覧になる and the rest aren't exactly used all the time, even by Japanese.


Anyway, hope this thread is still around tomorrow... off to bed for me.

>>10547
Thank you so much. It helped me a lot. Good night!

皆はちゃんと勉強してください！

lol i learned some in japan would have learned more if not so any people spoke english =p but i know some phrases

>>10547

Oh, one note though, a lot of Japanese people in the service industry, store announcements, and other communications from parties that are treating you as a customer WILL use honorifics when talking to YOU. So it might be a good idea to familiarize yourself with some of the basic forms just so you don't miss the meanings of some basic things. Some workers use the most ultra-polite speech so it can be a bit tricky to understand what they are saying if you don't have a basic grasp of some of the forms. But as far as producing them and using them effectively, it's not mandatory for office life in my opinion.

>>10547
Fuck, I need to brush up on that for the fun of it... and it might be useful.

>>10596
はい

I'll enter Japanese classes when the schoolyear ends. How many years until I can read raw mango and watch unsubbed animu?

>>10619
ありがとう。すごく助かりました。私の場合英語を先に、もっと勉強しない
といけないのですけど、こんなに4chanが頼りになったのは初めてです。ま
た明日お会いできたら嬉しいです。おやすみなさい。

>>10682
At least two years.

>>10718

i felt happy when I can read half of it already. missed just 頼り and 場合英語.

>>8608
6 years, and that's what you can do? No offense, but are you very dense?

>>10718
sweet dreams.

I'd love to learn Japanese, but I don't think I could pull off any real classes without my friends/family thinking I'm a weird fag

>>10926
Amerikan.

>>10961
Touché.

>>10826
頼りになる means "supporting," "reliable," "helpful" and such.

As for the second part, it may be easier if you punctuate 私の場合英語を so it reads 私の場合、英語を...
私の場合 means "In my case," and 英語 is, as you already know, English. So the second sentence is "This is the first time that 4chan helped me like this. I should improve my English before getting into Japanese though."

>>9243
If you take advanced language courses at uni, you might want to know that the kana are not an alphabet.

>>10961
moar liek ameriCAN'T, amirite?

勉強しても無駄だから諦めてしまえ外人目

>>9243
Advanced course and you know 50-100? I'm on my first semester, and I already know 100+. You're wasting your time, obviously either the course or you suck ass.

>Heisig
I can't recommend this book enough. It's awesome. I've been at it for 6 months and I know 1000 kanji, which I can write easily with the proper stroke order etc. The readings don't come with it but I know a lot just by knowing words containing the kanji.

I am a Japanese major that has now applied for study abroad in Nagoya starting fall 2008 for the entire year. Hopefully this works out.

>>11188
Let me be your counter-balance:

The Heisig method is very overrated. I agree that learning the stroke order is important, but what's even more important is to learn how to read them. If you can't do that, everything else is useless.

I would steer clear of the Heisig method, and instead use the good ol' "memorizing" technique, which can prove to be vastly superior to Heisig.

>>9137
My vocabulary skills is an equivalent of a grade school. Fuck.

;_; Well, I have a hard time retain words I don't use in a regular basis.

>>11205
Isn't it great?

>>11249
Thank you for restoring the balance of the force.

>>11249
Are you trolling?

>Heisig
Geh, I looked at the "free demo" pages, gives me a headache. Why not teach people the, you know, words? Instead of this keyword set that has nothing to do with the language?

Geh, of course 俺はもう日本語が話せる so maybe newbs with empty brains will find it easier.

>>11282
No, he's right. Even though I learned via Heisig, some people are better with rote memorization. Experiment and find the way you're best at.
Remember, the method doesn't matter. Just as long as you reach fluency in the end.

Is it just me or trifags are multiplying?

>>11180
Wow! I'm living Nagoya now for around three years. I'm going to move to Chiba this spring though. Nagoya is such a nice place you should come here!
On a side note, I read your blog a bit ago and thought your Japanese is good enough to get by.

>>11301
Read the intro in the pdf to find out why he's only teaching you one meaning. The method is also great for people like you, if you forget or can't distinguish kanji.

>>11315
Seems I fucked up my english...

I don't know what this other method is but I studied them just by memorizing them. I learned about 400 in 6 months, but that was mostly on and off. So, maybe if I didn't have to work on so many shitty classes that have nothing to do with Japanese I could have memorized more.

Anyway, I recommend the Kanji cards by Tuttle. They're not bad and they're easy to carry around.

>>11301
Feel free to use words if you already know enough. Or Henshall, or whatever other methode. But DO use primitives or something... learning a character like a mess of strokes means you'll write it like shit.

>>learning any language to a functional point is pretty hard.

bullshit like this is what makes people give up. There is NOTHING that says you can't learn a second or even third language *IF* you have the motivation to do so and are willing to put the time into it.

>>11338
And I'd recommend this: http://ichi2.net/anki/

>>11334
Yeah, I use "primitives" of a sort, like I would break down 兄 as "mouth on legs" like he does, but after a while I stop thinking of it in that way and it's just ani/nii/brother. Some of these things are just too simple.

By "use the words" I mean 強 isn't "bow 弓 and triangle ム and bug 虫" but "the character from 強い tsuyoi"

>>11386
Yeah, I recommend it too. Cross platform, web review on your phone or other pc, readings for japanese generated on the fly, highly customizable.

>>11386
This thing looks real cool.

>>11409

I do this too but only when talking to people irl that have no idea what a kanji looks like. Course, it never works out because they still don't know what I'm talking about.

>>11409
to me, its a strong starship trooper using his elbow and bow to smash a bug. go go heisig.

>>11431
Yeah... mnemonics like that just don't do it for me.

>>11439
>talking to people irl that have no idea what a kanji looks like
>they still don't know what I'm talking about.
Watch out, that's a sign that your power levels are reaching 9000.

>>11482

Haha. I think they've been over 9000 for a while now.

>>11493
isnt tonberryking supposed to be banned

>>11493
>tonberryking !vzc9TxEtRo

>>11515

Not here. I didn't do anything here.

>>11533

Wasn't your b& on all boards?

ಠ_ಠ

>>11570

Oh, it might be different at home. I'm at college where I am only banned from /a/. I hope to keep it that way since I kinda like this place.

>>11400
>the motivation to do so and are willing to put the time into it.

Yeah, that's the hard part. The motivation for me was reading go (囲碁) magazines and stuff so I could get better. It helps if it's incremental -- getting "白が良い" is better than nothing, then later you can worry about figuring out "白１４３のノゾキよりハにオシか？" Don't decide "oh, I'm going to read major Japanese literature, it will be fun", it won't (unless you're a serious literaturefriend)

I memorized hira and katakana, but once I had to start learning words and syntax, I realized I had better shit to do with my time.

since this thread seems pretty helpful, does anyone know a good site or way to help with pronunciation ? I have the 5 vowel sounds down perfectly but some words just seem to 'come together' easier and I can enunciate them easily while some words, I have seem to have a hard with. I really have no way to know if I'm saying them correctly and I tried searching google before, but most of the pages only have a sentence or a paragraph.

>>11655

Are you serious? I don't really know how to help you. This has never been something I had trouble with. Maybe I have anime to blame.

>>11655
try 'shadowing' japanese mp3s or doramas

>>11691
Listen to this anon.

>>11691
Yeah, or sing along with jpop and look like an idiot. Just listen to real moon folk talking somehow.

i translate anime but don't bother transcribing or putting the words into Anki/whatever, so i don't learn much

it's pretty shitty, although at least i've gotten some decent grammar down (though the more formal grammatical constructions are still a mystery to me)

Well, I can read kana... memorized it all when I was bored. But that's it. I don't know a single kanji, and I only know the words that I learned from animu.

I'm a teacher of Japanese for a year now :)

I can read and write katakana and hiragana, and when pressed can write roughly 220 kanji characters... except I haven't practiced in a while, so it might not be that high anymore.

So who was the idiot who made kanji anyway?

making a symbol for every word is fucking retarded.

>>12207
The chineses

Ah, c'mon. We're not speaking about Chinese people here. They only use <2000 kanji. And my semi-big English dictonary is 160k+ words. Think it over plz XP

>>12169
Do you use emoticons when you write stuff on the board?

>>12207
Yeah.

>>13461
Your English seems fine to me.

>>13473
Thank you. Probably that post was too short to make erros or speak funny engrish... Maybe I think some funny wording will appear when I correct someone's Japanese (or in this post).

>>13612
I learned English in 4chan mostly on /a/ and /b/ after getting down the basic grammars, vocabulary and whatnot in junior high and high schools. Still my English sucks but I don't think it's impossible to learn Japanese from anime/manga if it's not the sole material and you already have a good knowledge of basics.

>>13612
Not all people are wired for that kind of language learning.

Hey /jp/ how do I increase my japanese vocabulary?

>>13856
If you already know the most basic words like こんにちは and the like, I recommend reading anything you find interesting and look up new words you run into in a dictionary.

>>13749
Wow thats crazy, someone learning English from 4chan.

Rock on man.

>>14063
Of course, I've been learning also by reading/watching books, newspapers, TV programs, and so on. But most of the time, I'm here lurking and posting.

What I find the hardest is putting words together.

I think its all the 'words' that have no meaning that trip me up (or the lack of knowing how to use them). Wa and Ga aren't hard, but its things like 'mitai'.

>>8590
fuck yeah

>>14228
So by "words" you mean "grammar".

I've been studying Japanese at my university for two and a half years, and I'm going to be studying abroad in Osaka this semester. Learning Japanese, just like anything else, requires work and dedication. The grammar is ridiculously easy, but since the words sound so foreign (as compared to Spanish or German where we have cognates) it can be difficult to memorize vocab, and kanji plain suck. I wish this weren't true, but there is no easy way to learn Japanese - study a few hours every day. HOW you study can make a difference; try picking up a book in Japanese, preferably something they make elementary school kids read so you can be on the same page as them, and when you encounter a word or kanji you don't know, put it on a list and devote some time each day to memorizing your list.

I've heard of people self teaching themself english but has anyone taught themself Japanese?

>>10946

i know how that is

>>14323
Yeah I have, Animu -> Heisig -> VN

A lot of people mentioned reading, any specific interweb links to things to read?

>>14323
I know Koreans who self taught Japanese and speak decent Japanese. But maybe it is possible because Korean and Japanese are similar languages.

>>9864

ぐ→いで

例：泳いで

>>14323

Sure, and what a waste of time. But if you think オッパッピ is funny, and 申し訳ありません is a decent apology then have fun (o^-')b

>>14323
Currently doing that, I have 1100 kanji down, but I'm going to focus on getting the elementary ones finished. than keep going forward.

>>14353

http://www.aozora.gr.jp/

>>13749
Yeah, I also learned English by posting on forums and imageboards, and I'm pretty sure I can speak better than an average American now.

>>14376
Self-teaching Korean is hard, though, even with some knowledge of Japanese.

They're somewhat similar, but I don't know if they're similar enough to make a difference....

I think self-teaching is largely about dedication and resources (both of which I am currently lacking in my Korean endeavors....)

>>14467

Korean is in the same language family as Japanese, and they share a lot of similarities in terms of grammar, and also the politeness/honorific type things. As such, it's a lot easier to learn Japanese for a Korean, becuse it's... almost "natural". Similar to how it's easier for an English speaker to learn German or French because our systems are very close to each other, we share words, etc.

>>14494

I should add it's not "easy", just "easier". After all there's all the vocab, kanji etc to learn, and also all the differences and all.

Well, I technically started properly learning 7 months ago -- I got the kana down then and whatnot. I purchased a shitty book to learn from though which... was so terrible I didn't bother with it. I purchased Genki I in late November last year and am nearly through lesson 4. I know about 30 kanji.

Oh, does anyone have any tips for remembering vocabulary, by the way? I know the tip is to "use it a lot" but I'm not exactly at the stage where I... uh... can.

>>14494
Indeed. I was thinking more along the lines of syllabary/alphabet, vocabulary, and the various sounds that exist in each language.

>>14494

Japanese is a million times easier than German. I'll take umpteen hundred hieroglyphs over 4 cases any day.

BONG BONG BONG

>>14512

Different things work for different people. For me, I mentally go over the vocab that's new to me as I'm not doing anything (say, walking between classes, on the bus, etc). In this process not only do I reinforce the word itself but I can create mental images to go with it. Flash cards are also useful. And yes, using them as much as possible-- practice your grammar by using the vocab you know. Watching anime and such will also help... try and follow the sentences being said in Japanese, identify key words you know.

>>14512

Try an SRS like mnemosyne, great for memory aid

I've taken two semesters so far, and, if it fits into my schedule, I plan on taking two more. It's such a rewarding language to learn, and, really, it was a fun class to get me through my freshman year.

>>14512
Using it a lot is the only way, dude. Sorry. You can read books or plow through flashcards or watch a lot of anime once you know enough to understand it, but really usage is the only way to keep it fresh.
>>14535
I studied German in high school and am studying Japanese in college. German is easier, hands down. The cases really are not a big deal, you just have to remember a few rules - it's basically simple math. Trying to figure out what the fuck a Japanese person is talking about is WAY harder.

>>14467
But You'd be surprised if you visit Southern part of South Korea and see how many college/university students can speak fluent Japanese. It seems Japanese and Korean shares many things enough to make it easier to learn the languages. At least, it seems much easier than English ;_;

>>14494
Japanese is a complete insular languages.
German is a germanic language with romanic influence.
French is a romanic language.
English is a bastard between germanic and romanic with slight French influence.

I'm taking the 2級 coming December, however the grammar has left me in despair. I don't have any problems remembering kanji, although i've been slacking off and barely push to 500 kanjis.

>>14591
Blarg, I'm so envious...

Part of it is that (I've heard) Koreans are taught English/Japanese from really young ages, around kindergarten or so. Where I live, full-fledged foreign language classes weren't available until seventh grade, and even then, the most exotic language available was French....

I know no Japanese and have no intention of learning it. It's a useless language to learn, considering no one but Japan Speak it. If I wanted to learn a language I would learn Italian, Spanish, or Chinese considering there are masses of them in the US. Fucking weeaboos.

For anyone learning from Genki or IJ:
http://kanji.renshuu.org/
For anyone who wants to brutalize themselves in exchange for kanji knowledge:
http://r21freak.com/iikanji/index.php

>>14637
Learn Chinese. It's fantastic and quite useful in the business world.

Seriously, I love it. I wish I had enough time to take it more than the two semesters that I did.

>>14637
shitposting will result in a ban. Fuck off and let others enjoy the new additions

>>14621

You're about 500字 short of 2級

>>14675
Isn't Gaku just like education?

>>14696
That's the Kanji for character, not education.

学 vs 字

>>14721
Yes, thanks.

>>14609
While Japanese is classified in its own family, it shares many common characteristics with Korean and Chinese, not the least of which is the writing system and similar grammatical structures, such as counters instead of plurals.

When I hear an East Asian languages spoken, I can immediately tell if it's Chinese, but it usually takes me a second to tell between Korean and Japanese.

To anyone using genki: Should I learn all (or at least most) of the kanji in a lesson, rather than just what it tells me to? Or should I just go along with the suggested kanji?

If someone wanted to learn Japanese, but had a minor grasp of the language from watching Japanese Dramas and TV shows. What would be a better, trying to memorize Hirigana/Katakana first or trying memorize verbs and nouns first.

>>14783
There are more East Asian languages than Mandarin, Cantonese, Korean and Japanese.

currently learning sentence structure. know the kana about 85%, and have been learning kanji about 40 or so now. kanji is a bitch and a half, but i got time before i go visit the country.

>>12242

Yes, but English is a phonetic language in which pictures are never used as replacements.

If you're not used to that, it can fuck some people over. Especially people who suck at visual learning.

>>14637
Japan is in the top 5 countries in the world based on Economy, and Japanese is the 5th most widely spoken language in the world.