/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

This is why you can't have nice things, youkai scum.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296539
Who the hell cares for a random faceless human villager that wasn't even a cute girl?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296539
Reimu is stone cold.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296597

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296600

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296603

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296611

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296539
Commits murder without batting an eyelash, while smiling and hiding behind duty, like a true nazi. Best girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296635
"I don't especially mind needless killings"
-Hakurei Reimu 2015

[Anonymous No.]

Man...I really don't like this development. He seemed nice too.

>>13296611
>If it's a youkai, I exterminate it. It's that simple.
Bull-fucking-shit, Reimu, that is a complete lie and everyone knows it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296567
/jp/ kind of does. Nothing like moving into Gensokyo to discover you're unwanted there as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296662
See
>>13296614

A human from the village turning into an Youkai is a death warrant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296673
Actually, on the contrary, you're very much wanted in Gensokyo, except by beings that want to eat you alive. And since trying the jinyou method to avoid that obviously defeats the purpose, better pray that you end up in Human Village or that you can exit the Netherworld just as easily as you can get into it in PCB. Otherwise, no waifu meeting for you.

>>13296647
>>13296683
Even assuming Reimu for some reason couldn't avoid killing him due to fear of some massive backlash from the humans and Akyuu, the way she does it without batting an eyelass is still unsettling. I'd expect "not minding needless killing" from someone like fucking Yuuka, not the heroine. Might be just me picturing her as friendly underneath that cold exterior, but that situation really soured her image in my eyes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296539
Which book?

[Anonymous No.]

Reimu is worse than Hitler holy shit
I feel sick

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296714
>except by beings that want to eat you alive.
Actually, you're very much wanted to them. Tasty human meat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296789
Yes, sorry, that's what I meant.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't give a shit about this random faceless faggot getting killed, but Reimu using Kogasa as a practice target for her new needles that the latter made for her instead of paying is fucking bullshit, fuck Reimu.
Also, i can't wait for Kosuzu to become a youkai and Reimu bullshitting a reason to not kill her.

[Anonymous No.]

I was taken aback when she said that she said that she doesn't mind needless killing, Even Yuuka wouldn't be this mean.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296808
That's because Kogasa had the gall to try and make Reimu pay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296811
The worst thing is, knowing Eiki the poor sap is going straight to hell.

[Anonymous No.]

>human-turned youkai apparently wants to go away and life peacefully
>gets killed
Youkai seemed to save his whole (or at least part of) personality from his human life.
Looks like youkai don't "regenerate" when killed, that means Reimu normally doesn't hunt youkai down, just beats them.
There is some sort of secret going on, maybe that human youkai was a danger of revealing this secret, so that whole turning was made into greatest sin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296856
There's quite a few possibly reasons for humans going youkai is the greatest sin, the one that stands out the most is that if it WASN'T a sin, everyone would do it because it's fucking long life and not dying, and then there'd be no humans to keep the balance of Gensokyo, and then everyone there gets real-worlded or whatever and it's doom for them all.

Or maybe because karma and the wheel of reincarnation isn't to be fucked with, and trying to escape it gets you straight up murdered. I dunno.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296893
If that's the case then Reimu should Kill Marisa too since magicians are youkai as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296647

Ice fucking cold.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296614
Kosuzu is gonna break reimus heart

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296914
Marisa isn't a youkai.
Yet.
Maybe you meant Alice? She probably isn't from Human Village.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296914
>>13296936
Once Marisa goes full youkai Reimu will *teleport behind her*... you know the rest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296936
Marisa's not from the human village either, she has her own place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296928
The manga is heading toward a scroll tsukumogami x Kosuzu fusion, and Reimu will have to put her down, or maybe she'll keep her alive, since she's a cute loli.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296956
she'll just go into the book, how bad could it be

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296539
fucking Reimu
fucking ZUN

fuck everything

Now Gensokyo is ruined for me

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296983

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296983
>implying Touhou wasn't grim-ish hidden under cutie girls doing silly things from the beginning.
Pre-PC Touhou sure was a strong signal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296983
>>13296994
>implying Touhou wasn't grim-ish hidden under cutie girls doing silly things from the beginning.
This man knows.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296662
Read again, it's not just a youkai, but a jinyou.
>>13296714
>the way she does it without batting an eyelass is still unsettling
Because she batted an eyelash when killing the evil spirits at the start of FS?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296956

>Kosuzu becomes youkai
>Reimu invents an elaborate plot to get Kosuzu out of execution.
>Like anyone's forgotten that Reimu is the most arbitrary person on Earth who will pull any amount of bullshit.

>>13296983

Reimu is a natural born killer. All the Hakureis have killed a lot of youkai. In PC-98, she probably killed every stage boss that never came back.

Reimu has always been a ruthless motherfucker. It's her defining character trait.

Does nobody remember IN Extra Stage, where she kills Mokou repeatedly simply because she could do so with no consequences? Where she ignores the rules SHE HERSELF WROTE just to get some good old fashioned murder in? She uses unsanctioned lethal force on somebody who didn't even do anything wrong, on the word of Kaguya, the biggest liar in Gensokyo.

Reimu enjoys killing. It's in her blood.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297015
>where she kills Mokou repeatedly
She never killed Mokou because DANMAKU LITERALLY CANNOT KILL HUMANS.

Did you think she killed Sakuya too when both she and Remilia claim Sakuya's dead?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296808
>but Reimu using Kogasa as a practice target for her new needles that the latter made for her instead of paying is fucking bullshit, fuck Reimu.
Why are you getting mad over a joke? After all, Kogasa deserved it for betraying her own species for money and she even had the guts to ask Kasen not to tell on her cowardice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297011
>jinyou
What the fuck is jinyou exatly? Can't find info on this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296983
>Now Gensokyo is ruined for me
Poor thing never checked what Gensokyo was like and only checked his cute fanart.

PS: Reimu killed someone else near the beginning of FS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297019
that is the joke, moron, i get mad over something stupid but i don't give a shit over the random human faggot getting killed, which seems to be what /jp/ cares.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297020
A human turning into a youkai, which happens after they die so it's just illegally extending their lifespan. This disrupts the balance of human and youkai that maintains Gensokyo so it's a rule to kill them, not that they haven't already lived enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297017
Didn't got to the Extra, but there was something about eating her liver (or other organ, not sure) to get immortality, you won't get that from living human.

[proREMIRIAt Elite Force Comman(...) !rSDMROXTB. No.]

>>13296983
Feels bad knowing that Reimu will kill you on sight for betraying your humanity (and not being a cute girl).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297017

Sakuya was probably beaten to Hell and back. If it weren't for the fact that she's tough as fuck and for it being a danmaku fight, Sakuya probably would've died.

Also:

"Mokou can actually be observed dying and resurrecting after each spell card in Imperishable Night."

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Fujiwara_no_Mokou#Additional_Information

REIMU: "But if she won't die, that meansI can go all-out on her, right?"

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Story/Barrier_Team%27s_Extra

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297036
...what?
>>13297043
>Sakuya was probably beaten to Hell and back. If it weren't for the fact that she's tough as fuck and for it being a danmaku fight, Sakuya probably would've died.
Excuses, danmaku cannot kill humans, all of this is proof that game dialogue is just bluffing, that's why despite after seemingly sending death threats to each other the heroine and the antagonist have a tea party 5 minutes later.
>"Mokou can actually be observed dying and resurrecting after each spell card in Imperishable Night."
Why the fuck are you using user-written speculation on a wiki as source you moron?
>REIMU: "But if she won't die, that meansI can go all-out on her, right?"
See above, danmaku literally cannot kill humans even if Reimu really wanted to kill Mokou.

Also Mokou gives up because of pain, she'd have given up a long time ago prior to ''dying'' the first time if she had actually died once.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297017
You are aware that Mokou dies and revives herself between each of her spellcards, right? The death animation play each times her spell cards get beaten.
https://youtu.be/JNADQlI53mc

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297059
>The death animation
I guess Reimu dies after being hit by a danmaku bullet too huh?

Again, danmaku literally cannot kill humans.

[Anonymous No.]

You all are complaining about this but if you were in Reimu shoes you would've done the same, who would want a disgusting old man harming your cute lolis?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297058

>Also Mokou gives up because of pain, she'd have given up a long time ago prior to ''dying'' the first time if she had actually died once.

Mokou views death as an inconvenience. It hurts like shit, but she's over 1300 years old and she's used to it. She just didn't want to keep dying because dying does hurt and she felt too much pain for the fight to be fun any more.

>>13297069

Then how were problems solved before Spell Cards? Danmaku was clearly used before them because PC-98 shows this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297089
I don't get why people are angry at her when she's just following the rules, jinyou are not allowed to exist because they alter Gensokyo's balance and it's a transformation that happens after the human dies so it's not cutting their life short but rather cutting down their illegal extention.

It's kind of like like how Seiga is being hunted down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297089
What's next? A tanuki touching her lolis?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297058
>...what?
guts of immortal person grants immortality, this implies tearing through Mokou's stomach, maybe that means you can get hurt during danmaku (remeber about torn clothes), so you could die if attacker went all out.
According to wiki, she seemed do die after every spell.
I guess you can kill her for a moment, then she regenerates back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297103
>Mokou views death as an inconvenience.
''Death'' does not produce pain because at that point you stop feeling. She says she gives up because of too much pain, i.e: her pain threshold was hit for the first time and that can only happen in one lifetime.
>Then how were problems solved before Spell Cards?
With danmaku, duh.
>Danmaku was clearly used before them because PC-98 shows this.
Yes, and? What's your point? You do know that youkai are not humans? Youkai can actually be killed by danmaku as it's spiritual power which is their weakness but ZUN says it'd have to be an absurdly high amount to kill them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297112
That can't be because danmaku cannot kill humans as it's spiritual power, why it can rip clothes but not kill humans is another thing that you need to ask ZUN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297103
>>13297112
Mokou herself says she cannot die in the dialogue. She gets close to death but never goes that far.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296856
>>13296994
>>13297004
>>13297015
>>13297069
WAYQ

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297107
ZUN's been pushing Mamizou too much all of a sudden and she's too smug for her own good, I hope she ends up dying after turning Kosuzu into a youkai or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297126
Mokou still felt pain.

So even if danmaku itself doesn't kill, this doesn't mean, youkai can't shoot the human until he just gives up, letting youkai kill him with claws or something.


But sure Reimu is an asshole, she attacked youkai, who was just reading books, then sold those books to Rinnosuke

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297149
HM, DDC and FS all have tsukumogamis as a foreground plot point. Tanukis are deeply linked with tsukumogamis, that's why Mamizou is all over the place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297151
>youkai can't shoot the human until he just gives up, letting youkai kill him with claws or something.
That's just reaching into something else which isn't danmaku-killing-humans. Youkai can't kill humans either as the rules say so, exception being outsiders who glitch into Gensokyo until they become villagers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297151
>But sure Reimu is an asshole, she attacked youkai, who was just reading books, then sold those books to Rinnosuke
Just like my RPG games!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297142

She cannot die permanently. She's as fragile as a regular human. If you stabbed her, she would die. And then come back good as new.

Kaguya and Mokou are immortal, not invincible. It's as easy to kill them as it is to kill anybody else.

They just don't stay dead.

If danmaku didn't cause any pain, then there would be no deterrent. Gensokyo would simply use something else to control youkai populations.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297120
Did you forget that Reimu shatters gigantic boulders in subterranean animism stage 1? Are rocks weak against spiritual power, or does she use some amount of physical force in her attacks?

[Anonymous No.]

This made me think...

What if the dude beg for mercy and starts cry, Reimu will kill he anyway?

Youkai have souls as well, so Reimu crushing a body with a soul there is no different to a youkai killing a human for food, so Reimu should kill herself because she isn't human anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297157
Mamizou had absolutely nothing to do with DDC or its characters afterwards.
>>13297167
>She cannot die permanently
She cannot die even once, period, she never says ''it doesn't matter how many times you kill me'' or something, she straight up says she cannot ever die.
>They just don't stay dead.
They just never ever die once, as Mokou says so herself.
>If danmaku didn't cause any pain
When did I say that? Of course it does, that's how Mokou gives up. I said danmaku cannot kill humans which is a fact.
>>13297170
Don't ask me, ask ZUN, he'd probably discard the boulder destruction being canon or just say ''she broke them with her jump kicks from the fighting games''.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297185
>Mamizou had absolutely nothing to do with DDC or its characters afterwards.
She doesn't but what i am talking about is the fact that tsukumogamis are becoming more important to the plot. Since they are cute and best girls. If there is tsukumogamis going around, you will find tanukis, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297179
>What if the dude beg for mercy and starts cry, Reimu will kill he anyway?
The law says jinyous cannot exist because they are abobinations disrupting the balance between humans and youkai that maintains Gensokyo.

Also dude, the guy already lived a full life as a a human, jinyous are humans who die and turn into youkai after death.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297185

>she straight up says she cannot ever die.

She can't die because she doesn't stay dead. She wasn't being completely literal with that statement.

>I said danmaku cannot kill humans which is a fact.

You don't need danmaku to kill a human. It's technically not even Reimu's job to deal with humans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297210
>She can't die because she doesn't stay dead
Why do you keep saying she ever dies? Where does it say that? Meanwhile she says she doesn't ever die, why wouldn't she say ''I can never die for good''?
>You don't need danmaku to kill a human.
Good thing we are only talking about danmaku then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297170
>Did you forget that Reimu shatters gigantic boulders in subterranean animism stage 1?
Marisa's Master Spark can obliterate mountains.

That means danmaku can destroy inanimate objects but cannot kill humans because otherwise Marisa would be the biggest serial killer in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297219

Mokou can die, she just comes back from death. That's what she means by "unable to die." I don't see what part of this is causing an issue for you.

Her entire fucking theme is of the phoenix, a creature that dies in flames and revives itself from the ashes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297257
>Mokou can die
Show me proof, she herself says she cannot die.
> I don't see what part of this is causing an issue for you.
I don't see why do you keep repeating your baseless assumptions for no reason against her word.
>Her entire fucking theme is of the phoenix, a creature that dies in flames and revives itself from the ashes.
Nice try, having a phoenix theme doesn't mean you die because of your assumptions. She herself says so, please stop spouting the same lie over and over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297257
Then explain how come Kaguya doesn't have anything to do with phoenix.

[Anonymous No.]

>A minor Touhou character that has appeared on Chapter 25 of Forbidden Scrollery.
>He was a human that killed himself and then resurrected as a youkai, because he realized how pitiful the life of Gensokyo's humans is. Despite not wanting to hurt anyone, the red-and-white miko exterminated him for good, as people from the human village are not allowed to turn purposedly into youkai.

>He's unique because he is currently the only known humanoid character of the series that has been killed for real after the introduction of the spell card rules.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297288
>>He was a human that killed himself
And there goes whatever respect I had for him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297273
>I disregard what I don't like

Maybe Mokou said she can't die, because she can't STAY DEAD.
Toehoes like to brag and that what she said was just an emphasis.
Explain why she is "dying" every spell when other bosses don't do this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297273

Am I being trolled? I feel like I'm being trolled.

It's very simple. It's the generally accepted interpretation of Hourai immortality that if killed, they come back.

They die, but don't stay dead.

>>13297283

Because that's not Kaguya's theme. Kaguya is based on Kaguya-hime of Flight of The Bamboo Cutter.

>>13297288

>Kills himself to get mad supernatural powers.
>Gets BTFO by Reimu because that shit don't fly.

Enjoy the Yama, faggot jinyou

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297310
She even uses "resurrection" after every spell.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297314

I meant Tale of The Bamboo Cutter. I got the story and the song mixed up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297310
>>I disregard what I don't like
No, you're disregarding her dialogue and claiming your headcannon is right.
>because she can't STAY DEAD.
Then why wouldn't she say ''I CAN'T STAY DEAD''?
>Explain why she is "dying" every spell when other bosses don't do this.
Because it's just part of her phoenix theme.

Still waiting for your proof, oh wait, there's none, meanwhile there's proof for the opposite that you cowardly discard as ''nah it's just bragging!''.
>>13297314
>It's the generally accepted interpretation of Hourai immortality that if killed, they come back.
What kind of argument is this?

Show me proof that they die you cunt, don't be so retarded as to use ''common interpretation'' because that is 100% assumption.

Again, Mokou says she never dies, who should I believe? Her or some anon on the internet baselessly claiming otherwise?

[Anonymous No.]

If he wasn't so weak he could've lived, that's what he get for showing to public when he doesn't even have the power to defend himself.

[Anonymous No.]

Oh boy I'm laughing hard at you two.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297036
>>13297112
> but there was something about eating her liver (or other organ, not sure) to get immortality,
that's unrelated, after Mokou is beaten Yukari suggests cutting her gut open and eating her insides to become immortal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297327

>don't be so retarded as to use ''common interpretation'' because that is 100% assumption.

60% of Touhou lore is assumption. STGs don't lend themselves well as a story-telling format.

>you cunt

no bully

>who should I believe? Her or some anon on the internet baselessly claiming otherwise?

She states that she can't die. She means this as "If you kill me, I will not be dead forever. I cannot die."

Are you autistic? It's very easy to read into what she's actually saying and realise she means she can't die PERMANENTLY.

>>13297340

I know it's completely retarded, but fuck it, I don't have anything better to do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297327
>Then why wouldn't she say ''I CAN'T STAY DEAD''?
This doesn't sound that cool.

>Because it's just part of her phoenix theme.
So she is just pretending to be dying?
Aren't you pretending to be retarded?

Let's check the wiki...
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hourai_Elixir
>will never be able to die
>inb4 "Ha! I told you!
but
>Complete destruction results in complete restoration.
>Complete destruction
So Mokou sure gets hurt a lot and gets her body destroyed, but she's immortal, she can take it.
Think about normal human getting blasted with danmaku.

[Anonymous No.]

She won't judge him to harshly, right? right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297359
>60% of Touhou lore is assumption.
Doesn't make your assumptions canon.
> She means this as
How do you know that?
> It's very easy to read into what she's actually saying and realise she means she can't die PERMANENTLY.
Still waiting for the proof that she dies, all of what you're saying is 100% headcannon, you can't use the ''it's obvious'' excuse because a person dying or not is a very explicit thing that can't be simply assumed out of the blue.

Until you show me proof otherwise, Mokou never dies, it also makes sense since as I said, she gives up because her pain threshold is reached, if she died each time a spellcard was beaten then she'd have given up before the first spellcard had even finished.
>>13297371
>This doesn't sound that cool.
''It doesn't matter how many times you kill me'' sounds way cooler than crying while saying ''I can't die''.
>So she is just pretending to be dying?
Is Reimu also dying when she's hit by a bullet then?
>>Complete destruction
That never happens in this battle though, as danmaku cannot kill humans and thus it will never reach that much with Mokou.
>Think about normal human getting blasted with danmaku.
The only thing that's gonna die is their clothes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297383
Depends on if that's actually a sin or not. In yama terms.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297383
he killed himself and did what's considered the biggest sin of all in Gensokyo as it disrupts the balance that maintains it which is being a jinyou.

remember Seiga? the enma is hunting her down, and she's just a bad hermit, now imagine this fella.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297288
>He was a human that killed himself and then resurrected as a youkai, because he realized how pitiful the life of Gensokyo's humans is.
>because he realized how pitiful the life of Gensokyo's humans is.
Something about this...bugs me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297383

She's sending his ass straight to Hell for this one.

>>13297384

It's not my headcanon, it's the generally accepted explanation for her unusual spell card finishes.

When it comes to fiction, if 90% believe that character dies, and there is no evidence to the contrary, then open the golden gates of Heaven because that nigga is dead.

>>13297396

Life in Gensokyo is a short, unhappy one.

Unless you're a featured character, in that case you're golden.

[Anonymous No.]

God. Aren't youkai supposed to be super durable? Since when does exterminating mean this? This is so jarring.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297384
>''It doesn't matter how many times you kill me'' sounds way cooler than crying while saying ''I can't die''.
Toehoes like to brag about how they're undefeatable, not about how they can act as pitiful cannon fodder.

>Is Reimu also dying when she's hit by a bullet then?
It's more a game mechanic.
You're disregarding other bosses not doing that.

>That never happens in this battle though
What about that "dying" after spell we are talking about?

>The only thing that's gonna die is their clothes.
Clothes aren't supposed to be weak against spiritual attacks, you know. Something must tear those to shreds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297393
The Yamas do not give two shits about the balance of Gensokyo and Gensokyo laws.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297405
>it's the generally accepted explanation
That's headcannon, also pulled out of your ass cause I can say the generally accepted explanation is that she never dies. You know why I can say that? Because that's what the hourai elixir does.
> and there is no evidence to the contrary
There is, first of all she says she doesn't die, second of all THE HOURAI ELIXIR DOESN'T LET YOU DIE EVEN ONCE.
> if 90% believe that character dies
You still think that what people think matters? It doesn't, at all.
>>13297410
>Toehoes like to brag about how they're undefeatable
Cool, doesn't matter though.
>You're disregarding other bosses not doing that.
You're disregarding Reimu doing that. Again, Mokou literally cannot die in this battle even if she didn't have the hourai elixir because danmaku cannot kill humans.
>What about that "dying" after spell we are talking about?
See above, it's just because of her phoenix theme, stop treating a visual above explicitly stated canon.
>Clothes aren't supposed to be weak against spiritual attacks, you know
Says who? Did you forget that Marisa's Master Spark can destroy mountains? Yet it can't kill anybody.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297415
>about the balance of Gensokyo
course they do, they are hunting down Seiga for being an anomaly, just like someone who died and is illegally extending his lifespan post-death.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297408
>Aren't youkai supposed to be super durable?
To physical damage.
>>13297410
>Toehoes like to brag about how they're undefeatable
When has any other touhou said ''I can't die''?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297408

The most jarring thing about it, I believe, is that it was a physical kill done with a melee weapon.

Most fighting in Gensokyo is not shown as close range. Only the fighters show that. But then Reimu just puts a gohei into the guy's fucking skull and cracks it open. It's a reminder that Gensokyo is not a fun and happy place, it is feudal Japan infested by man-eating monsters. One should not be surprised if Youmu did a crossroads killing after getting her swords, or if ritual suicide is extremely common.

It's like watching Tom and Jerry and Tom doesn't get up after Jerry hits him with a baseball bat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297314
>implying the Yama shouldn't send herself to hell for being corrupt as fuck

[Anonymous No.]

Ｅｖｅｒｙ ６０ ｓｅｃｏｎｄｓ ｉｎ ｇｅｎｓｏｋｙｏ， ａ ｍｉｎｕｔｅ ｐａｓｓｅｓ． Ｔｏｇｅｔｈｅｒ ｗｅ ｃａｎ ｓｔｏｐ ｔｈｉｓ． Ｐｌｅａｓｅ ｓｐｒｅａｄ ｔｈｅ ｗｏｒｄ

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297436
>But then Reimu just puts a gohei into the guy's fucking skull and cracks it open
it was done with her gohei so most certainly it was charged with spiritual magic juice, which is what youkai are weak against.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297419
>Cool, doesn't matter though.
Why?

>You're disregarding Reimu doing that.
Cool, ask ZUN to make her hittable right after being hit, taste the players' rage.

>See above, it's just because of her phoenix theme
Phoenix is about resurrecting after dying. If she doesn't resurrect, why she has this theme?

>Did you forget that Marisa's Master Spark can destroy mountains? Yet it can't kill anybody.
Maybe she adjusts Master Spark's power for needs of moment.
And youkai are quite tought motherfuckers, even with their magic weakness.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297422

What they do to hermits is more of a formality. Yama said that if they REALLY wanted to kill hermits, they would.

Hermits within gensokyo are part of the balance after all. Since they are supernatural they fall into the category of youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297428
>When has any other touhou said ''I can't die''?
They can brag about how strong they are or other shit, don't try to turn around like there is no banter before fight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297422
Seiga's being hunted because she's sinned, not because she's disrupting Gensokyo or something. The two things can and often do match, but they're not the same thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297031
I'm calling bullshit.
They're a issue but humans that decide to live longer because they want to aren't?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297447

It was still a close-range killing done with a melee weapon. No different than if Reimu had hit him with a metal pipe or a baseball bat. I know a gohei is hardly a weapon, but that's what basically happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297458
It feels like there's a lot of double standards around with this development.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297449
>Why?
Because why would a character saying ''I can't die'' mean she actually dies? No other character says that either.
>Cool, ask ZUN to make her hittable right after being hit, taste the players' rage.
Thanks for not making a counterargument.
>If she doesn't resurrect, why she has this theme?
By that logic Kaguya should also have a phoenix theme. Again, danmaku cannot kill humans and the hourai elixir doesn't let you die.
>Maybe she adjusts Master Spark's power for needs of moment.
Don't bring assumptions to this argument
>>13297456
>They can brag about how strong they are or other shit,
Yet they have never said ''I can't die'' which happens to match what the hourai elixir does.

Seriously, why are you still arguing when there's literally not a single evidence suggesting she ever dies? All you're doing is using 100% assumptions.

Get it in your head: hourai elixir doesn't let you die and danmaku can't kill humans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297459
>No different than if Reimu had hit him with a metal pipe or a baseball bat.
course it is, gohei are blessed extermination tools, if she had hit him with a metal pipe or baseball bite he'd just have a cartoony bump on the head.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297457
>>13297450
This is wrong.
The Oni that hunted Seiga clearly wanted her dead.
But this person never realized that she can use the ground as a wall and waited there for hours expecting her death.
That's why she got away.

You don't send a fucking Chief to warn them of long life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297396
It's explained quite a lot what the human village truly is. SoPM calls it a zoo, and I think it's a bit generous interpretation.

>>13297408
This one was young and assumedly vulnerable. Something with millenia of tradition would likely be harder to eradicate. It's the belief that matters.

>>13297436
Gohei is not just a stick.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297470
>>13297474

But you get what I mean though.

It was a highly unusual attack, considering the type of series Touhou is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297450
>Yama said that if they REALLY wanted to kill hermits, they would.
Then why hasn't she killed Seiga, whom she's constantly trying to kill?
>>13297458
>but humans that decide to live longer because they want to aren't?
The jinyou that got murdered became a jinyou because he wanted to live longer. He killed himself and illegally extended his lifespan by becoming something that disrupts the balance that is said to maintain Gensokyo, that's why becoming a jinyou is the biggest sin of all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297482
But everyone else and their mother is doing it.
How come they don't go after the Magicians.

IT just seems like the Yama/Kishin don't care about anyone but the hermits and now Jinyou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297480
It was a highly unusual storyline, considering the type of series Touhou is. What are you doing, expecting precedents to exist?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297480
>It was a highly unusual attack
uh no it isn't, Reimu has always had her gohei, she used it in the first game and she used it in the most recent mainline game (DDC), also in the fighting games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297415
The Yamas are big fans of people knowing their place, half the things she judges people for are "not properly executing the role you were given." It's a very conservative morality.

>>13297490
The precedent has mostly be "thing happens, fireworks happen, girls have tea."

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297467

This semantic circular argument needs to stop.

>>13297472
>The Oni that hunted Seiga clearly wanted her dead.

We never said otherwise.

We're not arguing the fact that the Yama wants her dead or not. We are discussing the reason she is being hunted in the first place.

She is being hunted because she is breaking from the chain of causality. Not because she is anathema to gensokyos balance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297508
>We are discussing the reason she is being hunted in the first place.
Except the reason why Kishin are sent out is BECAUSE she extended her life.
There is no other "sins"
Komachi explains this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297514

What the fuck do you think "breaking from the chain of causality." Means?

To a Taoist hermit, it means extending ones life towards immortality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297467
Ok, I got kind of lost in that whole argument.

So you say, that Mokou can't die, because she isn't even injured (even less say about killed) by danmaku, because humans can't be injured by this.
Clothes, mountains and other not living objects can be destroyed by gigantic beams and magic bullets, but humans won't die because it's danmaku, fuck physics.

And what was the beginning of argument? Something about if Reimu is murderous maniac? She wanted to go all-out because she learnt that Mokou can't die. Seems like she likes to hurt.

[Anonymous No.]

But...but what about spell cards? Reimu!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297480
what you meant is that it's highly unusual for a character to actually die.

and for all you know ZUN could be twirling his hypothetical mustache and show him drinking tea with Reimu at the end of FS like it happens in the games.
>>13297489
>But everyone else and their mother is doing it.
it's only villagers in gensokyo, and so far he's the only one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297450
>Hermits within gensokyo are part of the balance after all. Since they are supernatural they fall into the category of youkai.


Actually, they fall into the category of Celestials. Hermithood is the step to follow before becoming a celestial. Hermits are a juicy delicacy for Youkai. And Celestials are poison to Youkai.

Then you ahve Tenshi, which bypass Hermithood because of her family.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297525
Then why the fuck are you quoting me if you're agreeing with me?

Doesn't change the fact that Yama claim one thing is bad while ignoring the other things just as bad.

>>13297531
>Magicians
>Lunarains
>Celestials
>Hermits

Yet only one of them is actually seen being hunted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296991
>"Please come to me if you need something other than needles, too."

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297529
>but humans won't die because it's danmaku, fuck physics.
thank ZUN for that.
>Seems like she likes to hurt.
SoPM reveals that she actually doesn't want to fight and wants everyone to get along, she's just doing her job and acting the role.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297530
>But...but what about spell cards? Reimu!
It wasn't a cute girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297541
>Yet only one of them is actually seen being hunted.
I told you it's just villagers who turn into youkai, jinyous. None of those categories are jinyous except for Alice who was a human-turned-magician, but not a villager apparently.

Byakuren was also punished for turning into a youkai but that was 5000 years ago elsewhere where the rule wasn't the death penalty but rather eternal imprisonment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297545
>SoPM reveals that she actually doesn't want to fight and wants everyone to get along, she's just doing her job and acting the role.
But she wanted to go all-out on Mokou...

>ZUN
>consistent

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296597
>>13296600
>>13296603
>>13296611
>>13296614
>>13296647

Why is she so fucking based ? Why are youkaipoor so buttmad at her ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297525
so just like the jinyou who are illegally extending their life after it had already finished.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297557
>It's just Jinyous in the village
But that's not what Komachi said.
ANYONE who makes their life span longer is a issue, doesn't matter the reasons.

And Celestials were likely Villagers as well.

The Yama don't work in just Gensokyo you know. And the best thing yet, Lunarians have a fucking drink that makes you immortal yet they worship the Yama.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297565
>But she wanted to go all-out on Mokou...
just like she ''killed'' Sakuya?

ZUN said that whatever aggressive dialogue in the games is just playful banter, he said this in Alice's theme description in PCB's music room.

[Anonymous No.]

Some interesting things here:

1: The Jinyou pretty seriously insulted Reimu by calling her a youkai.
2: Reimu states her job is 'To make sure human villagers do not become youkai'. Which probobly explains why she treats this guy very differently in her 'extermination' to when she 'exterminates' normal youkai.
3: Reimu calls it 'needless killing' and then says it's her job. Which is it Raymoo?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297482
>Then why hasn't she killed Seiga, whom she's constantly trying to kill?

Yama has far stronger powers at her disposal that could wipe a hermit off the face of the map with no problems. Why she doesn't? I'm not sure. Maybe Yukari told them to play nice or get the fuck out.

>>13297541
>Then why the fuck are you quoting me if you're agreeing with me?

See >>13297472
>This is wrong.

Follow the conversation or fuck off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297457
>Seiga's being hunted because she's sinne
>>13297450
>What they do to hermits is more of a formality. Yama said that if they REALLY wanted to kill hermits, they would.
>>13297579
How about you fuck off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297572
>ANYONE who makes their life span longer is a issue, doesn't matter the reasons.
Obviously that's not the case seeing as how they'd genocide hermits if that were the case, it's just people extending their life in a disrupting way, like a jinyou or a bad hermit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297557
>where the rule wasn't the death penalty but rather eternal imprisonment.

I think the role of the shrine maiden is just to deal with it in some way. Some banish, some kill. The Jinyou was being rather cocky about becoming a youkai and calling Reimu the Youkai Shrine Maiden.

If Reimu was a more by-the-books kind of person she might have just banished him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297587
Magically or otherwise extending your life? fine.

Extending your life -after- death? SDFLWEFLWJEFLWEJFWEFJEWOFM

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297579
>Yama has far stronger powers at her disposal that could wipe a hermit off the face of the map with no problems
Yeah no, she wants to kill Seiga yet Seiga is still alive.
>Maybe Yukari told them to play nice or get the fuck out.
First of all Yukari sucks Yama's dick in respect, Yukari herself said that even combining her power with Yuyuko and Reimu she'd still be unable to beat the Yama. Second we already saw an attempt on Seiga's life you know? That's why we're talking about this in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297587
No, this is what we call a double standard.
What makes a Jinyou bad when a magician exists?
What makes a Jinyou bad when a human can just run away from a shimigami or beating it is a thing?
What makes a Jinyou bad when you can literally just go be a hermit for some shitty religion.
Does this mean when Marisa becomes a magician she'd have to be killed by Reimu?
She won't and that's bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296893

>and then everyone there gets real-worlded or whatever and it's doom for them all.

Or Yukari decide it is time to end her vacation in the all in buffet and the completely yokai filled gensokyo invade the real world and exterminate the now weak-spiritual humans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297557
>Byakuren was also punished for turning into a youkai
I'm pretty sure that was because she allied with mankind's enemies, helped murder everybody on that ship, etc.

I don't think "transformed into a youkai" was the most severe concern when you're literally Hitler.

[Anonymous No.]

Hermits use divine means and meditation to extend their life. They can become Living Gods, Celestials and even Yamas. Hermits are usually hunted by powerful demons coming directly from hell to take their soul, every hundred years or so. People mistake these powerful Onis for Shinigamis.

Also, Youkai that have a lot of mystical energy, such as Tengus and Onis can become hermits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297581

When Seiga was first brought up it was implied that she is being hunted because she is anomaly to gensokyos laws like the Jinyou. That's what >>13297457 and >>13297450 were contesting. Not the fact that she was extending her life and thus would be hunted by the Yama for it.

We clear now?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297592
>I think the role of the shrine maiden is just to deal with it in some way
No, as I said those were the rules 5000 years ago in some other village that wasn't the one from Gensokyo, the crime there was betrayal of the spcies.

The crime in gensokyo is disrupting the balance that keeps it alive.
>The Jinyou was being rather cocky about becoming a youkai and calling Reimu the Youkai Shrine Maiden.
That has nothing to do with it, it's the rules and jinyous in Gensokyo only deserve death because of what they cause by nature as said above.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297482
If I recall correctly, Marisa seems very interested in extending her lifespan, and yet nobody seems that interested in lopping off her head. Much less Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297530
Did you read the chapter? Jinyous only deserve death.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297598
>Yukari herself said that even combining her power with Yuyuko and Reimu she'd still be unable to beat the Yama
no this shit again

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297592
>Reimu the Youkai Shrine Maiden.
Don't act like he was wrong in anyway.
Even regular humans call her that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297598
>she wants to kill Seiga yet Seiga is still alive.
>Yuyuko and Reimu she'd still be unable to beat the Yama

So Seiga is stronger than Yuyuko and Reimu combined essentially? So much so in fact that not even the Yama can beat her.

See, this is where I get the idea that the Yama doesn't REALLY want to kill her, because she isn't dead. Unless Seiga really is just that crazy overpowered. And I don't believe that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297615

Ahh, ok. I got mixed up thinking Gensokyo is older than it actually is. That the situations were exactly the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297635
>So Seiga is stronger than Yuyuko and Reimu combined essentially? So much so in fact that not even the Yama can beat her.
>See, this is where I get the idea that the Yama doesn't REALLY want to kill her, because she isn't dead. Unless Seiga really is just that crazy overpowered. And I don't believe that.

Goddamit man.
They tried to kill her but didn't expect her to turn into a fucking mole rat last minute.
She was desperate herself.
It isn't being overpowered it's called being lucky and having a useful gimmick for that one moment and possibly any moment if that same Kishin goes after her.
Unless Suiki wants to rip Seiga's face off hand to hand now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297600
Are you even reading the posts? The reason jinyous are to be killed is because their nature is that of disrupting the balance between humans and youkai that keeps Gensokyo alive.

In case you didn't know Gensokyo is only 200 years old. Byakuren is a jinyou but she wasn't punished till way later when she started defending youkai, that was 5 millenia ago.
>Does this mean when Marisa becomes a magician
I don't get where did you people get this from, she wants immortality, not become a youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297623
she's not going to become a lich like jinyou-san or seiga so is ok

[Anonymous No.]

It is stated that youkai exterminators can easily become a hermit. It might be one of the reasons why Kasen, Yukari and Suika are so interested with Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296954

Her parents are from the village of course so yes she is a villager.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297652
Jinyou wanted to be immortal too.
It ended badly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297577
>pretty seriously insulted Reimu by calling her a youkai.
''youkai shrine maiden'' is a name Reimu has been called since like the fairies manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297652
>she wants immortality, not become a youkai.
And either fucking way she's extending her lifespan.
And how is any of those not disturbing the balance?
Are Magicians not Youkai?

Infact Marisa wants the same thing that guy wants.
How is it wrong for him but not for her?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297651

So why hasn't she been killed since then? Her gimmick isn't exactly hard to counter if you have a multitude of powers at your disposal like the Yama does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297635
>So Seiga is stronger than Yuyuko and Reimu combined essentially?
Being able to beat in a direct fight =! escaping from assasination attempts, you mongrel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297666
seiga is just 2 spooky

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297666
I don't think you understand who's she is fighting here.
She's not fighting the fucking Yama.
The Yama wants her dead but it's not their role to actually get up and kill the hermits.
They have Kishin Oni for that, and the person who wants her dead is Suiki.
If Suiki gets that kill or not is either up to a game or a different chapter to show the rest of their encounters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297664
>How is it wrong for him but not for her?
I think the correct answer to that is just the simplest one.
Because Marisa is Reimu's friend. Reimu is an ultimate authority, so what she wants goes.
Sure it's unfair, but who the hell is gonna call her on it? Unless she went really overboard with abusing her powers, everyone is content with this status quo. Except the villagers, but nobody cares about those guys.

[Anonymous No.]

People tend to forget that the nameless Jinyou used dark arts to become immortal. And came back as a vengeful spirit.

Magicians can use dark arts (Byakuren) to become immortal. There might be other ways to become an Youkai magician that doesn't involve around dark arts.

Hermits and Celestials are closer to gods and are usually revered. They are what people aspire to be, when following Shintoism, Taoism and Buddhism. The only ones hunting them are Kenshin, powerful onis.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297664
>And either fucking way she's extending her lifespan.
Doesn't matter.
>And how is any of those not disturbing the balance?
Cause they aren't becoming youkai during Gensokyo's existence.
>Infact Marisa wants the same thing that guy wants.
But thing is the jinyou became a youkai while at it. That's the sin.

Marisa could get immortality by drinking the hourai elixir and not make a sin.
>>13297681
Read above, Marisa is committing no sin unless she becomes a youkai. Extending lifespan is not the sin, is being an anomaly like a bad hermit (to the yama) or a modern jinyou (to the humans).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297681
I agree with this.
Even ZUN said that Reimu is the strongest 2hu so no one can stand up to her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297691
>Even ZUN said that Reimu is the strongest 2hu so no one can stand up to her.
Except for the Lunarians :^)

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297623
Again, extending the lifespan is not the sin because otherwise all hermits would be running from their lives as well as characters like Alice and Byakuren.

The sin is being a villager jinyou in Gensokyo because it disrupts the human/youkai balance that is said to maintain its existence.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297688
>Marisa is committing no sin unless she becomes a youkai.
Isn't she very clearly on her way there, though?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297657

Not sure that would work. What with Reimu being a Shinto shrine maiden, and hermits baing Taoists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297666
>So why hasn't she been killed since then?
Cause she's sneaky and the Yama isn't God.

Being powerful doesn't mean you can kill whoever you want at any time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297694
They don't appear in the games so they don't count.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297698
There are hermits in Shintoism, too. It is all about pouring faith into something. Becoming a hermit is like pouring faith into oneself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297696
No, she wants immortality so people assumed that she wanted to become a youkai, when in fact there's more than one way to become immortal.

The one ''species'' she's been interested to become iirc is hermit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297712
That's because you're supposed to win the games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297698
>>13297657

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297681
>Because Marisa is Reimu's friend. Reimu is an ultimate authority, so what she wants goes.
>Sure it's unfair, but who the hell is gonna call her on it? Unless she went really overboard with abusing her powers, everyone is content with this status quo. Except the villagers, but nobody cares about those guys.
So, she simply killed the jinyou because she could. Ain't she sweet?

[Anonymous No.]

Does Sakuya take the food alive or dead from the village?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297662
But he became a youkai while at it, that was the problem.
>>13297691
see>>13297681
Also no ZUN never said that, the closest thing he said was ''maybe Reimu, maybe not'', and that's clearly not the case since the Lunarians exist as well as the Yama, whom Yukari said could beat her, Yuyuko and Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297717
Here are some things we know.
-Humans can become youkai magicians (somehow)
-Youkai have very long lifespans
-Marisa WANTS a very long lifespan
-Marisa is already a powerful magician

Becoming a youkai just seems like the natural step. Sure she could become a hermit, but doesn't that involve ascetic practices? Marisa doesn't seem cut out for that kind of thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297736
>>13297736
>see>>13297681
meant >>13297688

>>13297731
see
>>13297688

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297695
>>13297688
You say it's not a sin but I don't think you know what a sin is in gensokyo's case
>Something Yama are against are considered sins
If Marisa wants to extend her life, no matter the method it is a sin and she will be hunted for it unless she becomes a Magician for some reason, but even then she SHOULD be hunted by Reimu for being a villager turned Youkai.

Now if you say it's not against Reimu's personal rules then that's different.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297734
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Vampire
>The details of this contract are that the youkai will offer them humans from which to feed (*3); in return, the vampires will not attack humans living in Gensokyo. Of course, the contract remains in effect to this day.
>3: It is said these are humans from the outside world or those whose deaths are of no consequence (suicidal, etc.).
She doesn't kill people from the village at all, if that's what you meant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297731
It's more like it's one of her jobs to keep common humans from messing around with lifespans and power too much, but she makes an exception for Marisa (and Kosuzu?)

So, technically just doing her job.

[Anonymous No.]

Didn't Akyuu mention that a lot of human villagers become magicians?
How come those get to live while this guy dies?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297740
And there's more than one way of extending your lifespan that isn't becoming a youkai.

She said she's interested in hermits because of their extended lifespan, she has never said she wanted to become a youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297755
>Didn't Akyuu mention that a lot of human villagers become magicians?
No, she didn't, and no, they don't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297753
Nah I already know that, What I want to know is that the humans she receive are alive or already dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297750
>I don't think you know what a sin is in gensokyo's case
I know becoming a jinyou is.
> no matter the method it is a sin
Wrong, again, if that were the case then all hermits would be hunted down. The only time it's a sin is if it's something that disrupts Gensokyo, i.e: a jinyou or a bad hermit.
>Now if you say it's not against Reimu's personal rules then that's different.
cut it out with this already.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297688
>Extending lifespan is not the sin

To the Yama it is actually a sin to extend ones life too much. Because you are breaking away from the chain of causality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297754
>It's more like it's one of her jobs to keep common humans from messing around with lifespans and power too much
Wrong, extended lifespan has nothing to do with it, otherwise hermits would be hunted down and not just bad hermits like Seiga.
>but she makes an exception for Marisa (and Kosuzu?)
No because Marisa has never been shown to want to become a youkai. And Kosuzu's case is just an assumption the fandom has about where FS is heading.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297772
>if that were the case then all hermits would be hunted down.
They're ALL sinners.
Jesus fucking christ, are you saying your own headcanon is more than what Komachi explained to Kasen?
Do you want me to show you the fucking chapter?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297780
>To the Yama it is actually a sin to extend ones life too much
No it isn't, hermits are extending their lifespan yet they aren't being hunted down. Seiga is a bad hermit and that's why she's being hunted down.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297768
Alive, most likely. Sakuya taking a trip to Road of Reconsideration to cut suicidal people who wander there from Outside World seems like a good explanation for her serial killer motif.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297782
>They're ALL sinners.
Then why aren't they hunted down, you moron?

Why isn't Alice being hunted down?

Why isn't Byakuren being hunted down?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297782
>>13297788
>>13297794
How about you shut the fuck up.
You clearly don't know what's going on.
never once has it been said that she'd been hunted down because she's a "Bad hermit"

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297781
Okay, assuming that extended lifespan by itself isn't a 'sin' in gensokyo (I don't know this, thus the assumption), I think it would STILL be something Yukari and Reimu would be very interested in keeping the plebian masses from sticking their noses into. It may not be bad by itself, but you should be able to see how it'd lead into directions that would make more work for them: Giving the villagers more power against youkai and upsetting the balance, population inflation, leading into becoming a youkai like this jinyou guy did, all of that sort of thing.
Do you disagree?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297727

Reimu isn't exactly a model example of Shinto morals. Being like a hermit is not the same as being a hermit.

>>13297715

Yes, but I don't think hermits as we know them in gensokyo aren't the same as the hermits you would find in basically any other real world religion. That is, gensokyo hermits are Taoist immortality seekers that follow Taoist principles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297782
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Hermits
>As if that weren't enough, hermits are always beset by misfortune, the worst of which is that about once every hundred years, an assassin will come from Hell（*7）. During this time, if they are even a little careless in their pursuit of bhāvanā, and their powers weaken even a little, they will be unable to repel the threat and will fall into Hell.
>7: The simple act of living is a sin. As the weight of that sin is as great as the lifespan, it is necessary to perform pious acts to compensate for them.
Yes, they're all sinners, although hermits get a chance to compensate for their sin, jinyou do not. Propably because the former do not attack humans and the rise in their population doesn't threaten Human Village.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297805
Now the only questions that exist is now if anyone gets the chance to "compensate" if they don't add more sins or is it only limited to Hermits.

I do know that by existence celestials don't get that chance because they're actively attacking shimigami to extend their life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297799
Okay, why is Seiga being hunted down but not every single other person who has extended their lifespan? There's clearly more to it than that, I mean, Byakuren has lived way longer than Seiga so shouldn't she be the first priority?
>>13297801
Well we're talking about who's doing a death-penalty-inducing sin, and there are beings who have extended their lifespan like Alice yet Reimu doesn't kill them.

Becoming a hermit is a way of extending your lifespan that isn't becoming a youkai and there's no problem about it for Reimu.

The one thing they absolutely don't want are humans turning into youkai at this point, THAT is what disrupts Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

Being a hermit is not a sin in humanity's eyes. It is a sin in the eyes of Yamas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297428
>When has any other touhou said ''I can't die''?
Yukari.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297817
But magicians are youkai too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297799
Seiga isn't performing the pious acts that a hermit has to do.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297826
What about it?
>>13297818
not if you do proper hermit-things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297821
When?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297817
The only thing you can say is that they've been hunted already or they try to compensate for their sins. Not everything that happens has to be seen.
>>13297828
Doesn't really matter since extending their life is a sin, which is the topic.
She's not being a "bad hermit" they don't necessarily have to do it, only if they're afraid of Suiki and the Kishin do they have to.
When people say Bad hermit they mean evil hermit.
I mean Celestials don't give a single fuck and they fall under Hermits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297828

And?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297577
He's not calling Reimu youkai/shrine maiden (or, as I've recently taken to call it, youkai+shrine maiden). He's calling her shrine maiden of the youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297160

CAW VEY ! Yes ! That's right ! We, youkais, your best friends, never EVER hunt down humans from outside the barrier and even less the villagers !

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297835

I think Kishin stop bothering to hunt hermits after they become Celestials.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297835
>The only thing you can say is that they've been hunted already
Well that's wrong seeing as how Alice, Byakuren (Kasen?) and Ichirin are still alive and kicking and they've yet to see a single threat
>or they try to compensate for their sins
We haven't seen that at all, especially from Alice.
> Not everything that happens has to be seen.
Until anyone else is shown to be hunted you can't really say anything.
>She's not being a "bad hermit" they don't necessarily have to do it
She is being a bad hermit cause she's not doing the hermit things that she should be doing.

>>13297837
That's why she's being hunted down and not any other character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297604
>helped murder everybody on that ship
Literally never happened.

Before you start talking funny - provide a proof anyone died. You can't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297233

Or you know ZUN doesn't really care and just made a cool vegeta final flash without thinking.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297849
>That's why she's being hunted down and not any other character.
>>13297843
Celestials still gets attacked.
They just beat them to extend their life even more.

>We haven't seen it at all!
Too bad, what we do know is what's been said.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297830
This asshole Hermit doesn't know "nice hermit things" No wonder why her nickname is the wicked hermit.

[Anonymous No.]

>the exact same argument, every thread for weeks now
Shouldn't SOMEONE have reached a conclusion by now? I'm starting to think it's just some moemoe reimufags being upset about their interpretation of the character being contradicted by the zun himself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297857
>Celestials still gets attacked.
Psst, they're hermits too. The ones that enter Nirvana instead of Heaven are pretty free too. And I think you know why celestials are hated not just by the yama but by everyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297865
There's a spectrum between "moemoe" and "kills with a smile on her face" though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297873
Thank you for agreeing with me?
I was replying to >>13297843

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297849

It's a once every 100 years thing. It just hasn't come up yet for the other characters I guess. We saw Seigas assassin and we saw it fail. So she is safe for now.

It's also specifically hermits that are hunted. Not just any human that becomes a Youkai like Alice.

[Anonymous No.]

Alice was a fake human to begin with, she doesn't count

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297865
Everyone is upset.

I was always arguing that Reimu is a stupid bitch and even I didn't expect this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297865
> I'm starting to think it's just some moemoe reimufags being upset about their interpretation of the character being contradicted by the zun himself.
Other way around, the argument is always people thinking that Reimu killed him unjustly so the whole thread is about explaining why the guy deserved death (even though one could just look at the page where Reimu explains it).

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297877
You replied to >>13297849 too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297857

Kay, I'll just take your word for it then. I wasn't all that invested in the idea that Celestials weren't hunted.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297881
>We saw Seigas assassin and we saw it fail.
pretty sure she's on the run.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297900
That's what I call getting two birds at once.
He wanted proof of other beings being attacked and the other guy wasn't sure if Celestials are being attacked.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297889
>Alice was a fake human to begin with
what.
>>13297906
>That's what I call getting two birds at once.
And I replied to the celestials thing, they're also bad hermits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297905

Either way. It's a once every 100 years thing. It just hasn't come up yet for the other hermits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297881
>It's a once every 100 years thing.
No that's just the demon from hell specifically, Komachi isn't a demon for hell yet she went to hunt Tenshi.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297909
>And I replied to the celestials thing, they're also bad hermits.
They're not bad hermits. Infact they're hermits that reached a new level.

>Alice
he's saying that Alice may or may not count since Shinki is her creator. She wasn't "born" in the same way other humans do. Everything in Makai Shinki more or less created with the exception of some Youkai and byakuren.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297915
At that point Komachi was just saving face.
It wasn't her job but she sure as hell didn't like Tenshi, so she thought why not keep the image.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297919
>They're not bad hermits. Infact they're hermits that reached a new level.
Celestials in Heaven are just hermits with immortality and they don't do any hermit things, hell they are so un-hermit-like SWR happened. The good hermits are the ones who reached enlightment and entered Nirvana, they don't even have bodies.

>he's saying that Alice may or may not count since Shinki is her creator.
PC-98 isn't canon anymore, dude. Also either way she's still a human-turned-youkai regardless of how she was made.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297393

>he killed himself

Christianity was right all along !

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297924
>At that point Komachi was just saving face.
It was her job to do so cause all the celestials on heaven are immortal hermits not acting like hermits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297925
>PC-98 isn't canon anymore,
Oh you're one of those faggots.
Do you want me to post all the proof of ZUN saying 98 is canon and the connections still exist?
Do you want proof of other characters talking about or referencing the 98 setting?
Also, Celestial aren't fucking immortal either, you have to be promoted FROM a hermit to be a celestial

>>13297931
That's the Kishin's job.
Shimigami lied about taking souls by force.
She tells Kasen this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297925
>PC-98 isn't canon anymore

Lets not go down that hole.

As for hermits. All of them are hunted regularly until they die or as you said reach nirvana(which requires dieing.) They are hunted simply because extending their life is a sin. It's not just because they aren't following some moral guideline.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297541

>Lunarians

Yeah, let's just hunt down the most powerful guys of them all. You remember, the one who own us all and annihilated our last invasions without any casualties on their side ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297936
>Do you want me to post all the proof of ZUN saying 98 is canon and the connections still exist?
I know ZUN said PC-98 shouldn't be taken into consideration and that the only things that will survive is whatever he feels like bringing back from it, like Alice and Yuuka.
>Do you want proof of other characters talking about or referencing the 98 setting?
They aren't ''98 setting'' anymore, whatever is referenced in the windows era is part of the windows era, if it happens to be similar to something in the 98 era it's just something that ZUN has decided to bring back just like Alice and Yuuka.

And even then it's not the exact thing if it doesn't specify, Reimu talking about the evil spirit that once posessed her shrine doesn't mean things happened the way they did when Mima came, it's just a reference.
>Also, Celestial aren't fucking immortal either, you have to be promoted FROM a hermit to be a celestial
They are immortal in the sense that they beat the shinigami that comes hunting for them.
>Shimigami lied about taking souls by force.
Some lie that was considering Komachi went for Tenshi.
>>13297945
> All of them are hunted regularly
Where did you get that from? All we've seen being hunted down are the bad hermits like Seiga and the heaven-residing celestials.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297958
>the one who own us all and annihilated our last invasions without any casualties on their side ?
That was Yukari and her army of youkai you know, not the Yama.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297545

>she's just doing her job and acting the role.

I just want everyone to get alo... OH YES ! The smell of tea and burning youkais in the morning !

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297961
>if it happens to be similar to something in the 98 era
Are you seriously saying that PCB Alice just "happens to be similar to" Mystic Square Alice?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297961
Alright fine faggot
>Consideration
except he said when put together if there are contradictions you should take newer works over older works.
This is still effective when talking about windows work hence

>KOMACHI GOING AFTER TENSHI WHEN IT TURNS OUT IT'S NOT REALLY HER JOB
>Setting doesn't exist
>Of course, nothing particular has changed.
There is no need to say that the setting that wasn't mentioned in the game doesn't exist. Instead, think of it as only the portion of it becomes an issue in the games.

I really hope you aren't the same guy as before talking about how extending one's lifespan isn't a sin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297833
"Shooting, cutting, stabbing, hitting, killing...
It's all useless against me." -Yukari, IaMP

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297566

I spend almost an hour in paint for that. /jp/, tell me I'm a good girl ! It's an order !

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297961
Also
>Reimu references LLS as beating Yuuka returned things to normal so it will work in PoFV.

>Reimu AND Marisa references MS based on their reaction when returning to Makai

>Alice references her old title in PCB hence her not being serious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297980
You're a good girl anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297573

>ZUN said that whatever aggressive dialogue in the games is just playful banter

Don't you realize that the youkais/celestials/shrines maidens etc little puny fights are just a fucking act and that the whole thing is just played to put asleep the humans in the village ? THE WHOLE SETTING is just a giant plot to oppress the humans and keep them in line.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297976
Yes chump, ZUN said that he will take from PC-98 whatever he wants.
>>13297978
>Setting doesn't exist
>Of course, nothing particular has changed.
What are you trying to say here?
>>13297986
As ZUN said, he takes whatever he wants from PC-98 and that they are just references. For all you know Reimu could have beaten Yuuka elsewhere and LLS never happened, because it was never specified, only ''I beat you before''.

That's why Alice suddenly isn't a loli like she was in PC-98.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297996
>are just a fucking act
You're just reaching too much there, even Yukari has to fight at times. Incidents created out of the blue by specific antagonists just bother humans rather than keeping them in check in any way, especially ones that would end up in their eventual death like EoSD and SA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298000
>People can't change

also the quote got messed up you faggot
>Of course, nothing particular has changed.
>
There is no need to say that the setting that wasn't mentioned in the game doesn't exist. Instead, think of it as only the portion of it becomes an issue in the games.

Alice is STILL the same person as before
ZUN admits to this.

And the reason why we don't see more 98 characters is explained by this.


"
ZUN: Well, it would be a huge pain to try to bring in older characters all the time. They’d show up, and everyone would be, “Where have you been all this time!?” It’d be weird to fit them into the story. And, I’d rather make new characters. Of course, I won’t say they’ll never show up again … Hm, Genjii? Well, Reimu can fly, so she doesn’t need him anymore. *g* He’s kind of a Master Roshi character. But he’s a turtle, and turtles are long-lived. He’s probably peacefully living out his days in a pond behind the shrine."

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298008
>>People can't change
Tell me when he says PC-98 is canon and not just the parts he wants.
>There is no need to say that the setting that wasn't mentioned in the game doesn't exist
What setting that wasn't mentioned?
>Alice is STILL the same person as before
Yeah that's one of the references I was talking about as a whole, which is proof that said references don't mean the events in the new canon happened like they did in PC-98.
>And the reason why we don't see more 98 characters is explained by this.
Well yeah that's the quote I meant.

This conversation has changed its course a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297727

John Reimbo the killer hobo is akin to an hermit now ?

[Anonymous No.]

If you see a youkai with a sword, you shoot it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298033
cause she's better at dealing with youkai than with humans.

look at the people who visit her shrine, around 4 of them aren't fully youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298028
>What setting that wasn't mentioned?
What setting do you think he's talking about.
Makai and the other places they've been to.

I don't think you understand.
He said ALL of it is canon, doesn't matter if it comes back or not.
>Just the parts he wants.
The only part that might as well be ignored is highly responsive to prayers. It doesn't even have a story.

In that very quote he's talking about the characters still existing but off screen.
Do you even know what you're arguing? Is Genji not a pc98 character?

Alice existing isn't a reference, she's straight from 98 and she's still the "witch of death" Alice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298004
>especially ones that would end up in their eventual death like EoSD and SA.
Utsuho was the hero all along, she was trying to mercy kill the enslaved humans and remove all youkai from premises.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298039
He has a sword and is half-youkai.
>>13298045
>Makai and the other places they've been to.
Well Reimu went to Makai in UFO.
>He said ALL of it is canon
No, just the parts he wants, that's why Alice suddenly isn't a loli without explanation and Yuuka isn't a sleepyhead who was a lot more cheerful back then, he changes what he wants.
> Is Genji not a pc98 character?
That he brought back.

Notice how he avoided mentioning Mima and just said ''the ghost invading the Hakurei shrine''.

You can't say ''PC-98 is canon'' and then ignore it, like where the hell is Ruukoto?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297965

I'm pretty sure even Yama would have troubles trying to exterminate the lunarian. If she could even do so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298078
>I'm pretty sure even Yama would have troubles trying to exterminate the lunarian.
Why? Hell the Yama will manage the lunarian's souls when they die, the lunarians are below her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298039
General MacArthur turned into a 2hu when?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298064
>Well Reimu went to Makai in UFO.
This is before that.
>Yuuka
>Cheerful
You fucking what?
Yuuka wasn't cheerful at all. if anything she's the same but with a more sarcastic tone.
The only time she was cheerful was in the crossover she was in, but ZUN called her Youkai Moe in that situation.
>He brought back
He never brought back Genji. Genji has never appeared in a manga work nor a game but Genji still exists.

>Ruukoto
Why would a ending only character appear anywhere?
In any case, she wasn't even good at cleaning. Why keep her around?
She's also below fucking minor characters.
>Avoided mentioning Mima
Cept he does mention Mima and how she confused him, he isn't afraid of talking about her.

>Just the part he wants
Once again, he never said this. He infact said the opposite.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297936
Tenshi herself says this.
>Occationally fighting with the death gods that had come for me was a rare pleasure
so shinigami do come for her and not just hell demons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297572
>Celestials were likely Villagers as well
Celestials are old as shit and have been around long before the Barrier was put up. Heaven isn't even part of Gensokyo itself, either.

>Lunarians have a fucking drink that makes you immortal yet they worship the Yama
The Hourai Elixir isn't thought of as good nor easy for anyone in the Capital to make. The Lunarians also think consuming the Elixir is worthy of exile for its properties regarding kegare, so uh yeah.

>>13297577
>3: Reimu calls it 'needless killing' and then says it's her job. Which is it Raymoo?
Reimu's just mirroring the jinyou claiming she doesn't like needless killing. The fact is that it isn't really "needless"; she's just using his wording.

>>13297687
>the nameless Jinyou used dark arts to become immortal. And came back as a vengeful spirit. Magicians can use dark arts (Byakuren) to become immortal.
This isn't quite right. Byakuren's "black magic" is 妖術, while the stuff used here is clearly different and is much more focused on a magical interpretation of a superstition. He also isn't strictly a vengeful spirit.

Additionally, this guy didn't care about being "immortal"; he was more concerned about not being able to live as freely as youkai apparently do, so he decided he wanted to be one. Everyone talking about herp derp extending life as though that was the big deal is missing the point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298042

How does it make you an hermit in the religious sense in any fucking way ? She is just incredibly bad at her job.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298089

>This is before that.
It doesn't matter, it's proof that he can bring the settings too if he wants to.
>He never brought back Genji.
Mentioning that he's at the back of the shrine is.
>Why would a ending only character appear anywhere?
It's part of the PC-98 canon, it's proof that ZUN only brings whatever he wants and thus we should take into consideration what has been transferred into Windows so far. Ending content also appears in the official works like the summer shrine Reimu built for Kanako in her C ending in MoF.
>Cept he does mention Mima and how she confused him,
I clearly meant in the works, that's why I said that he limited Reimu to just saying ''the spirit that haunted the shrine''.
>Once again, he never said this
He said not to take into consideration the old works should contradictions happen.

It's not just about his words either but his actions. The sheer fact that all the canon left by PC-98 isn't in Windows is proof that ZUN puts whatever he wants from it, like the aforementioned Ruukoto.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298114
>in the religious sense
Good thing it's not in the religious sense but in the sense of being better with nonhumans than with youkai, like Marisa says.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298000
>ZUN said that he will take from PC-98 whatever he wants.
Still doesn't mean they're not the same character.

>>13298118
>He said not to take into consideration the old works should contradictions happen.
Has anything contradicted Alice's backstory yet?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297687
>The only ones hunting them are Kenshin, powerful onis.
Tenshi says shinigami have come for her before.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298126
>than with youkai
*humans

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298118
>He said not to take into consideration the old works should contradictions happen.
I don't think you know what this means.
this is literally nothing special, it's effectively saying take new shit over old shit.
Nothing in 98 has been retconned as of yet.
You know this right?

But then Genji was never mentioned in the works like I said.
So tell me how does he count for that?
>Settings
Except that was never relevant to the conversation. He only said the setting still exists and it does.
Once again, why would Ruukoto appear? How does her appearing do ANYTHING, she has no opportunity for writing. Would it make you happy if he said Reimu just threw her out and Rinnosuke took a deactivated machine?

>>13298130
>>13298095
This is assuming she knows the difference between them. As a Kishin doesn't declare what they are, they just assassinate. Suiki was never seen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298082

>Hell the Yama will manage the lunarian's souls when they die, the lunarians are below her.

Because it is her fucking role to manage their souls when they die but if she randomly decided to hunt them down they'd just all take some hourai elixir just because they are fuckers like that, nuke the earth and fight with her for eternity.

Yama isn't omnipotent even the lunarians as they are now could be stronger than her but they have no points in fighting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298127
>Has anything contradicted Alice's backstory yet?
The fact that she's not a loli and there's no explanation for it.
>>13298137
> it's effectively saying take new shit over old shit.
Like Windows over PC-98.
>Nothing in 98 has been retconned as of yet.
Alice's loli status sure has.
>He only said the setting still exists and it does.
Yeah, like Makai, and even then that doesn't transmit into exact same events.
> why would Ruukoto appear?
Cause she's part of the PC-98 canon and her not appearing means PC-98 isn't entirely canon and it's just what ZUN wants. She wasn't disposed of or anything.
>This is assuming she knows the difference between them
Oh come on that's just going for assumptions, she said ''death gods'', hell demons are not death gods.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298126

>Good thing it's not in the religious sense but in the sense of being better with nonhumans

/jp/ confirmed for best Hakurei Shrine shintoïsm followers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298156
>Alice's loli status sure has.
Cept ZUN said she's the same person, That's like saying Redhair Marisa isn't the same as current Marisa because she's not a loli anymore and has different hair.
>Windows over 98
CONTRADICTIONS
This still works for WINDOWS OVER WINDOWS.
It's like talking to a wall.

>Death Gods
Like I said before, Shimigami spread those lies to save face
do you want a different chapter page or are you actually going to look this up yourself?
Not many people actually know what Kishins are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298153
>they'd just all take some hourai elixir just because they are fuckers like that
That'd go against their own existence which is a big reason why they hate Kaguya.

iirc the lunarians praise the Yama.

also iirc Remilia was able to wound Yorihime all over her body and lost because of the sun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298170
>Cept ZUN said she's the same person
For the third time, I told you that this fact means that ZUN takes whatever he wants from PC-98 and it doesn't even have to be the same thing. Alice is grown up in the Windows era for absolutely no given reason and also says that she fought Reimu before. What this means is that ZUN referencing something in PC-98 does not mean the PC-98 event in question happened the way it did back then and that ZUN could change it.
>This still works for WINDOWS OVER WINDOWS.
Uh yes? What does that matter here?
>Shimigami spread those lies to save face
Tenshi is gonna lie about it? Also, again, Komachi went for Tenshi. Don't give me that ''oh but maybe she didn't know what a death god is'' assumption. Kishin going for them doesn't mean nobody else can, it's also proof that there's characters who are hunted more than others. Also the aforementioned pious acts that cancel out the extended lifespan sin, which Seiga and the heaven celestials sure aren't doing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298171

>also iirc Remilia was able to wound Yorihime all over her body and lost because of the sun.

Yorihime didn't go all out at all. And there are like millions of lunarians without counting the rabbits.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297925
>hell they are so un-hermit-like SWR happened
There are different kinds of ways to become a Celestial. The Hinanawi clan were promoted in neither of the usual ways, and it's Tenshi in particular that is different from other Celestials. They aren't un-hermit-like in general.

>>13298089
Goddamn. Why is it that every time someone tries to argue for PC-98 "being canon" always ends up being stuck on asserting that things "still exist" just so that they can continue talking about them as if they're valid in the current setting, when the whole point of canon is that there -already is- something present in the current setting? It's backwards as hell. "Canon" is the status and setting of the current works, period. Arguing for something to "be canon" is more like you've made up this abstract group of stuff called "canon" and imagine that if you can put something into this group then you can pick from it when talking about current works, and then it becomes a game of trying to shove things into this box rather than just talking about the things that the works actually talk about. "Nuh-uh, it hasn't been explicitly overwritten yet so it's still fine!" Like, no.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298201
>Alice is grown up in windows era for absolutely no reason
Still not a contradiction. We don't know her age nor do we know if she was a magician at the time.

>Tenshi is gonna lie about it
No you fucking retard.

>>13298214
For something to be "canon" it has to "exist"
Something or someone doesn't have to come back all the time to be canon.
And if you like, LLS and MS was referenced in windows.
ZUN has never once said the 98 setting is gone nor are the characters

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298201
>ZUN could change it.
ZUN could change anything he wanted at any time. He could decide that the SDM doesn't exist tomorrow. Until he says it doesn't we can safely assume that it's still there.

[Anonymous No.]

I love Touhou canon rage arguments. Keep it up, guys.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298214
>They aren't un-hermit-like in general.
Course they are, they're supposed to be doing pious acts to compensate for their longetivity yet they do shit like laze around and cause earthquakes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298226
>Still not a contradiction.
Course it is, it's completely unexplained why she turned from a loli into a grown up.
>No you fucking retard.
I still don't get why you keep posting about that when SWR proves that Komachi went for her and Tenshi said death gods have come for her before.

They don't _have_ to do it but they do it anyways.
>>13298244
>Until he says it doesn't we can safely assume that it's still there
But in this case we don't even know what is there from PC-98 and Alice is proof of that. If what you said was true then Reimu would still have Ruukoto around.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297489
you people got mixed up between sins for the Yama and sins for the Gensokyo human villagers.

hermits and anyone extending their life being criminals to the Yama doesn't mean they are criminals to the villagers and thus Reimu has no reason to hunt them, only jinyous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298325
>Course it is, it's completely unexplained why >she turned from a loli into a grown up.
And it was never explained what Alice was in the first place nor her current age.
For all you know she can just look older but in actuality just got 1-2 years older. Arguing the appearance of magical beings never go well.
>Ruukoto
And who's to say she isn't still there but turned off?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298367
>And it was never explained what Alice was in the first place nor her current age.
transforming into a youkai should conserve your appearance, not make you older.
>And who's to say she isn't still there but turned off?
ZUN would have to point that out first, otherwise it's another unexplained fact just like how Alice grew up all of a sudden as Ruukoto was never shut down or anything. As I said, it's what ZUN wants.

It's not like it's hard, here I'll write something that makes sense: Ruukoto pops up for a second only for Utsuho to come and eat her in one gulp, the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298397
>transforming into a youkai should conserve your appearance, not make you older.
Says who? turning into a magician is based on a spell that makes it so you don't need to eat or sleep.
It's only until they figure out how to stop aging are they "complete".

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298410
>Says who?
The fact that people do it to stop aging and overall dying.

Big dealbreaker if granny does it as a last second resort only for the process to age her up.
>It's only until they figure out how to stop aging
the what now?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298419
>Those who were born as magicians, from the start, are only able to use magic, and just like humans, they grow, age, and have a limited lifespan.

>At the point when they completely become magicians, their growth (aging) stops

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298419
>In the case of those who were originally human, in continuing their study of magic, it is when they learn "abandon food" magic (*3) that they become magicians.
>After that, it's the same as for normal magicians.

>Then, when they learn "abandon temper" magic (*2), they become long-lived, complete magicians.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298367
>For all you know she can just look older but in actuality just got 1-2 years older.
As I said that's another unexplained fact, assumptions be damned. The point is that what comes from PC-98 to Windows isn't what it was in PC-98.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298446
But it is fact that Magicians can age.
Now why wouldn't it apply to Alice?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298451
>But it is fact that Magicians can age.
Uh, you know we're talking about the sudden growth spurt right? She was a straight up 8-year-old looking girl 2 games ago and suddenly she's a grown up? Why did nobody else age?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298465
>Why did nobody else age
But they did age.
And before a Magician becomes immortal they have a limited lifespan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298471
>But they did age.
Then why is Alice suddenly more mature looking than people who towered over her 2 games ago?
>And before a Magician becomes immortal they have a limited lifespan.
That doesn't have to do with what we're saying which is the sudden growth spurt. Why is she much older looking than those who once towered over her?

You don't go from MS Alice to PCB Alice in 2 games, otherwise Reimu and the others would have aged far more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298491
>You don't go from MS Alice to PCB Alice in 2 games
But you talk as if we know the exact process of an Magicians aging.
But Reimu and Marisa looks older than they do in MS. Go look at their profiles.
But in real life height is exclusive to genetics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298507
>But you talk as if we know the exact process of an Magicians aging.
Magicians stop aging when they become full magicians, and Alice was already that in PCB, their description says they age just like humans up until they find out about abandon temper magic which is when their growth stops.
>But Reimu and Marisa looks older than they do in MS.
I don't know man, even Mima looks like a kid in MS, also anyhow they should be way older looking than Alice in PCB.

IF there was a ''different aging process for magicians'' then that's something that ZUN would have said, come on, you know this is a case of ZUN doing whatever the fuck he wants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298531
>I don't know man, even Mima looks like a kid in MS, also anyhow they should be way older looking than Alice in PCB.
I don't think Mima looks like a child, or at least in comparison to Reimu and Marisa who are supposed to be children at this time.

But I disagree with them should be appearing older than Alice in PCB, based on experience alone though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298562
>I don't think Mima looks like a child
eeeh.
>But I disagree with them should be appearing older than Alice in PCB
This would make sense when they're of similar size, not when Alice is a straight up toddler compared to Reimu's teens and now Alice is prime while Reimu is still teens...and still is to this day

but hey she grew breasts 7 mainline games later so that's something right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298571
>Reimu is still teens
But isn't that because ZUN doesn't want Reimu to change, rather than her actually not growing?
I mean he does refuse to state ages and shit.
So yeah, that is a part of him doing what he wants.
But look at Marisa, imo she changes size and appearance every game,

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298226
>Something or someone doesn't have to come back all the time to be canon.
>And if you like, LLS and MS was referenced in windows.
>ZUN has never once said the 98 setting is gone nor are the characters
It's like you have no idea what I said and then reaffirmed exactly what I said you were doing. You don't want to actually talk about what's relevant, you're aiming to just cram stuff you like into a box you call "canon" through the thinnest possible thread of "you can't prove they don't still exist", and then say it's totally ok to talk about it all in the context of modern works as though it's all equally valid.

Little dumb one-liners that reference a work long buried is more breaking the fourth wall than something of note. They don't mean anything, especially when they come from stuff as old as PCB. If Shinki was casually referenced in a manga and somebody drew her face or something, that would be a sort of minimum bar of "hey I'm ZUN and I'm still treating this character as a member of the current works". And even then, the mere appearance of Shinki still wouldn't mean that you would get to take any of MS's events in particular as fact, never mind him just recycling the concept of Makai.

>>13298300
>laze around
except becoming enlightened and escaping the need for further training is the whole endgame of being a hermit
>and cause earthquakes
literally only tenshi, who I just said was the problematic one

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298603
>rather than her actually not growing?
But this applies to Marisa as well, she's still in her ''teens'' just like Reimu.
> imo she changes size and appearance every game
No ZUN just goes from more moeblob to less moeblob varyingly in artstyle (less in PCB, more in MoF, etc), Marisa is still small.

Hell compare UFO Marisa to TD Marisa, she looks even younger in the latter and even younger in DDC.
>>13298619
>except becoming enlightened and escaping the need for further training is the whole endgame of being a hermit
Except the hermits that became enlightened were explicitly said to not go to heaven but to Nirvana, they even lose their bodies. All the other heaven celestials laze around and live a lazy hedonistic lifestyle.
>literally only tenshi
I'm using her as an example, if there was any state of mind required to be a hermit in heaven then she's proof that that's not the case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298619
What you think of those "one liners" actually don't matter in this case, I don't see what's wrong with those characters still existing even if they don't have relevance with the "current works"

Shinki doesn't need to be mentioned nor does any other character of pc98 but that's not to say they can't/will not return.
but that goes same with minor characters of windows.
Why mention Rumia or draw her if she has nothing relevant going on?
Hell, Yuuka hasn't done anything since PoFV, does that mean she doesn't work in "modern works"?

"canon" is still existing, doesn't matter what you feel about it, it exists until a retcon happens. also
>They don't mean anything
they do when the author says they do.
This is how it works with any work.
And yes it's totally okay to talk about it with modern works.
>>13298632
The one change that I don't get is Ichirin's change, I mean you can make up bullshit for Alice but Ichirin literally can't just look that way.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread I'm starting to side with the moonbitches now FUCK GENSOKYO

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298632
>Except the hermits that became enlightened were explicitly said to not go to heaven but to Nirvana, they even lose their bodies. All the other heaven celestials laze around and live a lazy hedonistic lifestyle.
>I'm using her as an example, if there was any state of mind required to be a hermit in heaven then she's proof that that's not the case.
Nirvana isn't a place. Once you become enlightened you exit the cycle of transmigration (samsara); basically the goal of buddhist practices. PMiSS even notes "attained enlightenment and ascended to Heaven" (成仏して天界に行った), and that's probably the passage you're referring to. I think you're just missing that both methods for hermits to become Celestials are a result of "completing" your training; one is if you achieved pseudo-immortality while alive and don't slack off in your practices, and the other is if you become enlightened (which would generally happen after you die), or perhaps are promoted to Celestials by the Yama. Those who've died and become Celestials don't have bodies because they died. Any who haven't attained enlightenment still have to be up to par. Lazing around is pretty much all you do once you've ridden yourself of worldly desires.

Anyways, Tenshi, as said before, was "promoted" based on her family's deeds, so you could say that she cheated. This is like a central point of why Tenshi is even a character; she's one of the only Celestials that hasn't gone through the usual conditioning and removal of desires, and so her attitude is completely different. She's an exception on purpose.

[Anonymous No.]

I can't rationalize the difference between FS Reimu and WaHH Reimu/Fairy mangas Reimu. They're different tones, yeah, and that counts for a lot, but the youkai she fights/exterminates in the former are very dead, and the ones in the latter aren't.
The only way this makes sense is if this guy and the youkais from earlier get back up a few days latter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298834

If I become a full fledged earth-goy and revere the holy lunarians as the chosen master race can I have a rabbit girl pet ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298669
I don't think you're understanding what I've been saying, since you're still just tossing around the term "canon" like it's your special box rather than the word actually meaning something.

>Why mention Rumia or draw her if she has nothing relevant going on?
>Hell, Yuuka hasn't done anything since PoFV, does that mean she doesn't work in "modern works"?
It's actually good that you mentioned this, because maybe this will get it across:
ZUN still works with these characters. There is no mistaking it. Besides their original appearances, Yuuka even appearing after "Gensokyo" was even an established concept (Rumia wasn't!), they were fleshed out in PMiSS, Rumia showed up in StB, they both showed up in HM, and they both have various manga cameos. They obviously are characters that ZUN uses in the current works and are members of his world.

PC-98 is entirely not this. Any few minor pieces he's brought in from PC-98 are really just recycled ideas. He doesn't use PC-98 material in the current works almost categorically -- he's sectioned off the whole damn thing and just left it as its own separate entity. Even with the very few things he's brought back, he's never done anything more than incredibly minor nudges to the past works, like ambiguous "oh we fought before". It's some brief fanservice and then there's nothing past that.

>they do when the author says they do.
Uh, yes. Exactly. The whole point here is that you clearly don't care about what the author actually writes about; you're latching on to things purely because the author hasn't explicitly written them out, which will -never ever happen- unless a contradiction with more recent stuff just happens to pop up. ZUN will never go out and say that any particular event or character is retconned, which makes your clinging to "hasn't been retconned yet" an utterly empty argument.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298984
>The only way this makes sense is if this guy and the youkais from earlier get back up a few days latter
well the jinyou dude was already dead and buried, for one

[Anonymous No.]

The youkai are abomination and must be eradicated.

The humans are evil and must be eradicated.

The moral of the story is everyone deserves to die.

[Anonymous No.]

Reimu is waiting for a chance to butcher Alice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13299644
More like Alice is waiting to kill Reimu.

Reimu only killed the guy because he violated a law of Gensokyo that was vital for Reimu and the peace of the youkai, while he was in her domain, and he was so weak that eradication was the quickest and most effective method.

Alice was disconnected from Reimu and her life, is of a power-level similar to Reimu, and actively aids Reimu (usually by proxy, through Marisa and co.). Alice is both convenient to keep around, and is actually a friend, so it makes no sense for Reimu to rock the boat.

On the other hand, Reimu nonchalantly destroyed Alice's dream world, turned her former home, Makai, into a chaotic plane, and didn't even remember her in the modern canon. If she could get away with it, I imagine she would have a bone to chew with Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13297383
She did once said to Yuuka to keep terrorizing humans and to Reimu to keep exterminating Youkais.

Eiki's job is to make sure everyone do their duty in life.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298969
>PMiSS even notes "attained enlightenment and ascended to Heaven"
PMiSS says ''Celestials are hermits who have long pursued ascetic knowledge, but they can be divided into those who have achieved immortality and ascended to heaven (*5), and those who have attained enlightenment and entered Nirvana after death. ''.
>of "completing" your training
Well that's not the case seeing as how Tenshi became a celestial not out of training.

The case of body-using celestials like Tenshi are not those of good hermits but rather hermits that have been able to beat whoever comes for their life.

Living a dream-like lifestyle like the article says is for people who rid of wordly desires, Tenshi is certainly not that.
>She's an exception on purpose.
But the point here is that she can be a celestial and still be un-hermit-like, there's no ''requirement'', she's not being kicked out. PMiSS says her kind are celestials that achieve immortality but later it's revealed that that's horseshit and what really happens is said celestials defeating whoever comes for them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298984
>but the youkai she fights/exterminates in the former are very dead
jinyous are ghosts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13299607
the only abobinations are the jinyous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13300041
>More like Alice is waiting to kill Reimu.
Well no because that'd go against the rules as well as destroy Gensokyo as she maintains the barrier.
>is of a power-level similar to Reimu,
what the fuck are you on.
>into a chaotic plane
Makai is pretty fine in UFO.

Did she ever give a shit about any of that? Like hell she does, she should be glad she finally has friends for once.

Also discard pc-98 game events until ZUN says they happened as they happened.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13300411
The jinyous aren't what you'd call an ordinary youkai like Yuuka because they are abobinations that disrupt the balance that maintains Gensokyo, hence why they're erradicated as becoming one is the biggest sin of all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>13300908
I think we might be misunderstanding each other here, perhaps on the use of "requirement". No, it isn't that absolutely all Celestials are such from training, just the vast majority of them. If that's what you mean, then sure. As I said, the Hinanawi family were exceptions, and we know they're exceptions and not something that happens often from Tenshi's SWR profile, since they aren't well-accepted by others. But in general, Celestials are such because they've trained that much. One kind stays alive due to their training, waiting to reach enlightenment (which takes a really long time); the other couldn't stay alive, died, and were either sent directly to Heaven or sat around as a phantom until reaching enlightenment (after a really long time). I think you're trying too hard to impose value judgements.

>PMiSS says [...]
Um, this is why I quoted the original text. Attaining enlightenment and "entering Nirvana" are two phrases for the same thing.
>(不老不死を得て)[生きたまま]<天界に行った>天人
"Celestials that (attained immortality) and <ascended to Heaven> [while alive]."
>[死後]、(成仏して)<天界に行った>天人
"Celestials that (achieved nirvana/became enlightened) and <ascended to Heaven> [after death]."
Get it now? Tenshi isn't even in the first category, since the point of "attained immortality" is that it's their ascetic training that's sustaining them; the Hinanawi clan is something else entirely.

Like, I'm not arguing that Tenshi isn't un-hermit-like; she obviously isn't, and it's written on purpose that she's different from other Celestials because of how she grew up. But you keep talking about Celestials in general as though Tenshi represents them all and that's clearly the exact opposite of the truth.

[Anonymous No.]

haha

[Anonymous No.]

>>13298992
You can be a pet rabbitgirl.

[Anonymous No.]

but Reimu herself is an undead zombie!!!11!!11one1!

[Anonymous No.]

>>13296647
Is Reimu's father the American door gunner from full metal jacket?

[Anonymous No.]

>>13305440
Nah.